Supposedly today (Wednesday, 13 November) we will be hearing some new on new Delta international destinations. Anybody know more?

Yes,

Expect destinations you would never think of, and some new non-stop markets that Delta has always been absent from.

I am told this will all be announced today as you predicted.

Exciting times !

First one looks to be ATL-DKR-NBO:

http://www.kbc.co.ke/story.asp?ID=53763

ATL-JNB will operate non-stop and the PR says Delta will have 12 cities in 10 African countries, so that leaves three more to be announced, a pair of which will be in one country.

[Edited 2008-11-12 04:00:45]

Not necessarily two cities in one countrty as the article could be referring to South Africa where DL already serves CPT and JNB. I would expect some more routes operated over SAL in addition to the Monrovia service already announced.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2): ATL-JNB will operate non-stop and the PR says Delta will have 12 cities in 10 African countries, so that leaves three more to be announced, a pair of which will be in one country.

Port Harcourt & Abuja?

Quoting MCOAviationFan (Reply 3): Not necessarily two cities in one countrty as the article could be referring to South Africa where DL already serves CPT and JNB. I would expect some more routes operated over SAL in addition to the Monrovia service already announced.

Yes, but that would be 11 countries and 12 cities. If the article is correct, two cities will be in one country or a second city in a country they already serve.

[Edited 2008-11-12 04:25:54]

The African announcements are only a portion of the planned expansion. There should be additional announcements with ATL/JFK-Europe plus a few other routes coming as well.

This will be interesting, to say the least - not since the heyday of Pan Am has a U.S. carrier spread its wings so broadly over Africa. DL is investing heavily there and I hope it pays off for them. DL's success in some of these new markets is reliant on an uptick in U.S. business investment in Africa - U.S. investment has been relatively flat in the region compared to China and E.U. countries....but this is beginning to change. It may be an uphill battle though given current economic conditions.

So far:

ATL - Johannesburg, R.S.A. (daily; to become nonstop)
ATL - Dakar, Senegal (to become 4-weekly)
ATL - Nairobi, Kenya (4-weekly via Dakar)
ATL - Lagos, Nigeria (daily)
ATL - Monrovia, Liberia (1-weekly, via Sal)

JFK - Accra, Ghana (4-weekly to daily depending on season)
JFK - Cairo, Egypt (4- weekly)
JFK - Dakar, Senegal (4-weekly)
JFK - Cape Town, R.S.A. (4-weekly via Dakar)

That gives us 8 cities in 7 countries (*excluding* Sal). If the article is correct and there are to be a total of 12 cities in 10 countries, my guesses for new service are:

ATL - Casablanca, Morocco
ATL - Freetown, Sierra Leone (via Sal)
ATL - Banjul, The Gambia (via Sal)
ATL - Port Harcourt, Nigeria (via Sal)

We shall see!

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 6): The African announcements are only a portion of the planned expansion. There should be additional announcements with ATL/JFK-Europe plus a few other routes coming as well.

All today, or within the next few weeks?

JFK - Gothenburg has just been announced .... 757 of course, starting June 12.

[Edited 2008-11-12 05:00:08]

Are any of the routes in this link "new"?

http://www.delta.com/planning_reserv.../destinations/new_routes/index.jsp

Quoting Airbuske (Reply 10): Are any of the routes in this link "new"? http://www.delta.com/planning_reserv...x.jsp

No, these were all this year's.

Nairobi, Kenya and Gothenburg, Sweden.

I'm already impressed...

Quoting Panamair (Reply 11): No, these were all this year's.

I am slightly confused to as why an announcement on JFK-DKR-NBO would be considered a new one. Perhaps because now finally they might announce an official date on which they'll start flying the route?

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2): First one looks to be ATL-DKR-NBO: http://www.kbc.co.ke/story.asp?ID=53763

Good find. Abit of googling reveals that DAL opened shop in Nairobi about 3 months ago.

http://www.eturbonews.com/4440/delta-airlines-opens-nairobi-office

MAH4546, remember we had a discussion a while back on what a/c they would use on JFK-DKR-NBO and you disagreed with me on the 772LR claiming it wouldn't be lucrative enough?  

Edit - Flight will be operated using a 763ER.   

[Edited 2008-11-12 05:33:51]

How many new routes do we expect will be announced today? Can any of our friends at DL tell us?

So far, we have:

ATL-JNB (current daily service, but will become nonstop)
ATL-DKR-NBO (4 days/wk)
ATL-MAO (daily)
ATL-FOR-REC (daily, swtiches directions)
JFK-GOT
JFK-EZE (5 days/wk)
PIT-CDG (5 days/ wk)
RDU-CDG (5 days/wk)
PHL-CDG (rumored)

Wonder if we will see a service to BHX announced?

So far we only have CO operating EWR-BHX-EWR and US due to start PHL-BHX-PHL

ATL-BHX-ATL would be a good option..!! fingers crossed..!!

My fingers are crossed for LED but I am sure it is still way off in the future.

Quoting Frostbite (Reply 7): ATL - Johannesburg, R.S.A. (daily; to become nonstop) ATL - Dakar, Senegal (to become 4-weekly) ATL - Nairobi, Kenya (4-weekly via Dakar) ATL - Lagos, Nigeria (daily) ATL - Monrovia, Liberia (1-weekly, via Sal) JFK - Accra, Ghana (4-weekly to daily depending on season) JFK - Cairo, Egypt (4- weekly) JFK - Dakar, Senegal (4-weekly) JFK - Cape Town, R.S.A. (4-weekly via Dakar)

ATL to JNB by 77L would be great, could their be better uses for a 77L ?

1) Yes, three more African destinations via SID.
2) Two more European cities from JFK.
3) Three routes from NRT (not including KIX).
4) One LAX route.

Other domestic changes (for example, connect Delta hubs to Northwest spokes and vice versa), but those are the exciting international ones.

JFK-ZRH daily eff Jun 9, 757-200

[Edited 2008-11-12 07:08:39]

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 18): ATL to JNB by 77L would be great, could their be better uses for a 77L ?

That's the million dollar question, even before the recession.

Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 9): JFK - Gothenburg has just been announced .... 757 of course, starting June 12.

I think this should do very well.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2): First one looks to be ATL-DKR-NBO:

I figured it wouldn't make a come back but it's still going to be a very tough market. It's about the same distance as going over Europe, but much more risky since there's not much local market to/from DKR.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 21): I figured it wouldn't make a come back but it's still going to be a very tough market. It's about the same distance as going over Europe, but much more risky since there's not much local market to/from DKR.

I wonder how much the outcome of Nov 4th had to do with NBO being announced

NBO = Nairobi Barack Obama Intl Airport  

I suspect CVG will lose all their international except Paris. MEM-Paris must not be far behind if they are going to fly it from RDU/PIT.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 18): could their be better uses for a 77L ?

hopefully, ATL-HKG

Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 9): JFK - Gothenburg has just been announced .... 757 of course, starting June 12.

Wow, that is amazing. What will the schedule be like?? Is it the first time GOT get a connection to NYC??

For those posting new services, could you reference your post to a news release, or some other source, so we can all read them?

thx

Quoting Dispatchguy (Reply 26): For those posting new services, could you reference your post to a news release, or some other source, so we can all read them?

German only
http://www.travelinside.ch/travelinside/de/index.php?we_objectID=8465

Quoting LIPZ (Reply 27): German only http://www.travelinside.ch/travelins...=8465

JFK-ZRH starting Jun 9th on a 757.

Im suprised we havent seen GVA or LIS yet.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 22): NBO = Nairobi Barack Obama Intl Airport Wink

LOL. That just made my day!

Quoting Airbuske (Reply 29): Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 22): NBO = Nairobi Barack Obama Intl Airport Wink LOL. That just made my day!

....who'd be surprised if that actually happened? Works out pretty well.

So is JNB going double daily?

according to sabre they have the following flights loaded...

7DL 200 J9 D9 S9 I9 Y9 B9 M9 ATLJNB 2200 1905‡1 77L 0
H9 Q9 K9 L9 U9 T9
8DL 34 J9 D9 S9 I0 Y9 B9 M9 ATLJNB 1545 1635‡1 764 D/ 1


7DL 201 J9 D9 S9 I9 Y9 B9 M9 H9 JNBATL 2105 0720‡1 77L 0
Q9 K9 L9 U9 T9
8DL 35 J9 D9 S9 I9 Y9 B9 M9 H9 JNBATL 1840 0805‡1 764 D/ 1
Q9 K9 L9 U9 T0

DL200 - nonstop service with a 77L
DL34 - via DKR with a 764

Quoting EmiratesUK (Reply 31): So is JNB going double daily?

No, they just haven't removed the one-stop flight yet. Should just be the daily nonstop 77L.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 28): Im suprised we havent seen GVA or LIS yet.

Would UA ex-IAD and DL ex-JFK be too much service for GVA? Heck, I might ask the same question about TP and CO at LIS.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 30): ....who'd be surprised if that actually happened? Works out pretty well.

JKIA is named after our nations founding father, so I highly doubt that will ever happen. However, I see them naming the airport near Obama's hometown which they plan to upgrade to accomodate the Airforce 1 after him.

Quoting EmiratesUK (Reply 31): So is JNB going double daily?

Delta.com shows two JNB flight as well.

I would think they'd swap it up and do JFK-DKR-JNB and do ATL-DKR-CPT since ATL-JNB will be n/s and any excess demand can switch in DKR.

on the africa side -

ATL-SID-ROB is now loaded..

2DL212/10AUG«
DL RESPONSE
FLT INFO 212/10AUG-11AUG
LOF ARR DEP ETA ON IN ETD OUT OFF ACF ELPD ACCUM MILES
ATL 310P 752
SID 215A‡1 320A 752 8.05 3963
ROB 705A 2.45 11.55
FACTS-
MEALS/CPT C Y
ATLSID NO MEALS
SIDROB NO MEALS

ATL-SID-ABV is now loaded

2DL216/12AUG«
DL RESPONSE
FLT INFO 216/12AUG-13AUG
LOF ARR DEP ETA ON IN ETD OUT OFF ACF ELPD ACCUM MILES
ATL 1025P 752
SID 930A‡1 1030A 752 8.05 3963
ABV 510P 4.40 13.45
FACTS-
MEALS/CPT C Y
ATLSID NO MEALS
SIDABV NO MEALS

Quoting LIPZ (Reply 27): German only http://www.travelinside.ch/travelins...=8465

The article quotes 18 new routes over the Pacific and Atlantic. So based on info in this thread so far, I can come up with the following so far:

1) ATL-JNB
2) ATL-SID-ROB
3) ATL-SID-Africa #2
4) ATL-SID-Africa #3
5) ATL-SID-Africa #4
6) ATL-DKR-NBO
7) JFK-GOT
8) JFK-ZRH
9) JFK-????
10) NRT-(probably JFK)
11) NRT-???
12) NRT-???
13) CDG-PIT
14) CDG-PHL
15) CDG-RDU
16) CDG-???
17) LAX-??? (SYD??)

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 22): wonder how much the outcome of Nov 4th had to do with NBO being announced NBO = Nairobi Barack Obama Intl Airport

Since the original Nairobi announcement was in fall 2007, I'm guessing not at all.

I think they will announce ATL-AUH.

Quoting Panamair (Reply 37): 3) ATL-SID-Africa #2

# 2 IS ATL-SID-ABV DL - already loaded in the system under flt # DL216

LAGOS from JFK has now been loaded - starts 9th June with a 767 this is in addition to the ATL service!

09JUN TUE JFK/EDT LOS/‡5
DL RESPONSE ** DIRECT CONNECT PARTICIPANT **
7DL 20 J9 D9 S9 I9 Y9 B9 M9 H9 JFKLOS 1730 0955‡1 767 0
Q9 K9 L0 U0 T0

http://www.airways.cz/zpravy/zprava.asp?id=1555

unfortunately only in Czech but says that DL will start JFK-PRG from Jun 19th 2009. Any comments?

Quoting Enilria (Reply 23): MEM-Paris must not be far behind if they are going to fly it from RDU/PIT.

Why? I would think both the CDG and AMS routes would be kept, as they feed into massive skyteam hubs.

Any chance that they could add something more ex-LAX? It is amazing on the DL LAX page how many of the routes are seasonal.

Dave

Quoting PRGDLGUY (Reply 42): unfortunately only in Czech but says that DL will start JFK-PRG from Jun 19th 2009. Any comments?

No suprise given that DL and OK now have ATI. Will this be on a 763 or a 757. I presume a 763 since I believe PRG is just outside the 757s serviceable range from JFK.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 35): I would think they'd swap it up and do JFK-DKR-JNB and do ATL-DKR-CPT since ATL-JNB will be n/s and any excess demand can switch in DKR.

Sounds like it will be JFK-DKR-CPT and ATL-DKR-NBO, plus ATL-JNB. That way both JFK and ATL would have 1-stop access to CPT and NBO, and NYC will keep 1-stop access to JNB via ATL (which adds a bit of distance, but would be preferable from a pax perspective since you wouldn't be woken up in the middle of the night in DKR).

JFK-PRG has now been loaded - starts 20th June

20JUN SAT JFK/EDT PRG/‡6
DL RESPONSE ** DIRECT CONNECT PARTICIPANT **
7DL 208 J9 D9 S9 I9 Y9 B9 M9 H9 JFKPRG 1705 0745‡1 767 0
Q9 K9 L0 U0 T0

So thats all the JFK routes done!!

Quoting OA412 (Reply 44):

according to DL it will be 763, 3 x per week.

Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 9): JFK - Gothenburg has just been announced .... 757 of course, starting June 12.

Did CO get cought off-guard with this one? I would have expected CO to start GOT and keep DL away from the NYC-GOT market.

Quoting EMB170 (Reply 15): ATL-FOR-REC (daily, swtiches directions)

JFK instead of ATL would be better for that Brazilian flight, but that's my own opinion.

Quoting EmiratesUK (Reply 16): ATL-BHX-ATL would be a good option

With B757? That range is really pushing it. IMHO, not all British destinations served by CO could work from other U.S. hubs. Maybe due to demographics, BHX could work out of ATL.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 25): Is it the first time GOT get a connection to NYC??

SK flew once or twice daily GOT-OSL-JFK with DC10. At that time SK Olso transatlantic flights operated in Gardemoen, while the rest of SK operations used Fornebu.

Quoting EmiratesUK (Reply 46): So thats all the JFK routes done!!

Schedules are all on delta.com as well now for the JFK flights:

JFK-LOS:
DL 20 JFK 1730 LOS 0915+ 763
DL 27 LOS 0940 JFK 1605 763

The return LOS-JFK will obviously be using the 763 from the inbound ATL flight.

JFK-GOT:
DL182 JFK 1915 GOT 0950+ 752
DL183 GOT 1220 JFK 1505 752

JFK-ZRH:
DL206 JFK 2200 ZRH 1240+ 752
DL207 ZRH 1430 JFK 1730 752

JFK-PRG:
DL208 JFK 1705 PRG 0745+ 763
DL209 PRG 0930 JFK 1230 763

To update:

Quoting Panamair (Reply 37): 1) ATL-JNB 2) ATL-SID-ROB 3) ATL-SID-ABV 4) ATL-SID-Africa #3 ( could this be PHC? ) 5) ATL-SID-Africa #4 ( could this be LUD? ) 6) ATL-DKR-NBO 7) JFK-GOT 8) JFK-ZRH 9) JFK-PRG 10) NRT-(probably JFK) 11) NRT-??? (would this be a U.S. destination or an Asian one?) If U.S., SLC? 12) NRT-??? (again, U.S. or Asia?) If U.S., perhaps ORD or MIA? 13) CDG-PIT 14) CDG-PHL 15) CDG-RDU 16) CDG-??? (perhaps BDL, now that oil is a little lower?) 17) LAX-??? (SYD??)

(how many 77Ls does DL now have, or will have by the time service is planned?)

Quoting PRGDLGUY (Reply 42): unfortunately only in Czech but says that DL will start JFK-PRG from Jun 19th 2009. Any comments?

Quoting PRGDLGUY (Reply 47): according to DL it will be 763, 3 x per week.

Well, it means bad news for CSA, I guess.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 48): Did CO get cought off-guard with this one? I would have expected CO to start GOT and keep DL away from the NYC-GOT market.

   I would definitely have expected CO to announce this before DL.

Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 51): Well, it means bad news for CSA, I guess.

Not really...remember DL and OK have ATI...(is this with AF also?) So they will split profits either carrier makes on the route 50/50 (or is it 33/33/33?)

Quoting PRGDLGUY (Reply 42): DL will start JFK-PRG from Jun 19th 2009. Any comments?

I think the new DL seats will bring some OK traffic to DL. I also think we'll more code shares ex-prg around eastern Europe.

Dave

Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 51): Well, it means bad news for CSA, I guess.

Actually, the DL nonstops will complement the OK flights from JFK since OK doesn't operate the flight on a daily basis. If you look at the June schedules for JFK-PRG:

Mon: OK
Tue: DL
Wed: OK
Thu: DL and OK
Fri: OK
Sat: DL
Sun: OK

Quoting Commavia (Reply 12): Nairobi, Kenya and Gothenburg, Sweden.

I'm surprised at Gothenburg before some of the bigger Scandinavian cities, like JFK-ARN, JFK-CPH, JFK-OSL.

I'm kind of losing track with all DL's amazing intl expansion lately -- they don't already fly these routes do they?

Quoting Panamair (Reply 55): Actually, the DL nonstops will complement the OK flights from JFK since OK doesn't operate the flight on a daily basis. If you look at the June schedules for JFK-PRG:

  It's a nice schedule; I don't know a whole lot about OK, but if they need the aircraft somewhere else, it's not inconceivable that they'd scale back to 4 weekly.

This route showcases one of the (many) mutually beneficial actions that carriers with ATI can take.

Quoting EMB170 (Reply 50): (how many 77Ls does DL now have, or will have by the time service is planned?)

They have two right now and I'm not sure of the delivery schedule but I think they're supposed to get quite a few in 2009.

Quoting TDubJFK (Reply 56): I'm kind of losing track with all DL's amazing intl expansion lately -- they don't already fly these routes do they?

No, they serve CPH and ARN from ATL only.

Quoting TDubJFK (Reply 56): I'm surprised at Gothenburg before some of the bigger Scandinavian cities, like JFK-ARN, JFK-CPH, JFK-OSL. I'm kind of losing track with all DL's amazing intl expansion lately -- they don't already fly these routes do they?

I'm guessing that this has more to do with DL's trying to stay out of NYC TATL markets that aren't that big and that already have some competition...

OSL is a relatively small market (how many times has SK tried it now?) and has only had CO consistently

ARN is bigger, but already has CO and SK daily, and MH 2-3 times per week...not to mention the presence of US service from PHL probably siphons some passengers...if MH ever does join SkyTeam, I'd look for DL to codeshare on their flights...

CPH is probably the biggest of the three, but again, has CO and SK. Isn't SK double daily certain days during the summer?

I'd look for DL to start JFK-CPH first...their willingness to open JFK-ZRH despite the presence of LX, AA and CO indicates the market is big enough to warrant the service.

Quoting EMB170 (Reply 60): I'm guessing that this has more to do with DL's trying to stay out of NYC TATL markets that aren't that big and that already have some competition...

   There are plenty of examples of this. I discussed LIS and (potentially) GVA above, but there are others. WAW comes to mind.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 52):   I would definitely have expected CO to announce this before DL.

Quoting EMB170 (Reply 60): OSL is a relatively small market (how many times has SK tried it now?) and has only had CO consistently ARN is bigger, but already has CO and SK daily, and MH 2-3 times per week...not to mention the presence of US service from PHL probably siphons some passengers...if MH ever does join SkyTeam, I'd look for DL to codeshare on their flights... CPH is probably the biggest of the three, but again, has CO and SK. Isn't SK double daily certain days during the summer?

I would look for CO to go double daily during the peak Summer months to ARN, OSL, CPH.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 62): I would look for CO to go double daily during the peak Summer months to ARN, OSL, CPH.

Don't they already go double daily to OSL?

Forgot to add, but now with US introducing PHL-OSL next summer, they may be even less inclined to try JFK-OSL, as well. Ditto on JFK-BHX.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 62): I would look for CO to go double daily during the peak Summer months to ARN, OSL, CPH.

This makes it all the more surprising to me the DL wouldnt even be attempting any of these three out of JFK and do GOT instead.

A curious choice, for sure. I'm surprised they're seeing more of a potential market there ( a city that has never even had direct svc to the US) before then in CPH, ARN, OSL from JFK.

SLC-NRT has been added with 332

NW 09 Dep SLC 1450 Arr NRT 1740+1
NW 10 Dep NRT 1630 Arr SLC 1220

Quoting UnitedNRT (Reply 66): SLC-NRT has been added with 332

Wow exciting news for us in SLC!

By the way, anyone have any idea when DL will finally put out an official press release?

[Edited 2008-11-12 09:31:49]

Quoting TDubJFK (Reply 65): This makes it all the more surprising to me the DL wouldnt even be attempting any of these three out of JFK and do GOT instead.

Also keep in mind that CO will soon be in Star Alliance, there will be cooperation to some extent between CO and SK on their 5-6 daily flights from EWR to ARN, CPH and OSL.

Quoting UnitedNRT (Reply 66): SLC-NRT has been added with 332 NW 09 Dep SLC 1450 Arr NRT 1740+1 NW 10 Dep NRT 1630 Arr SLC 1220

Wow, never thought I'd see that. I don't know about anyone else but this stuff is incredibly exciting. This is why I've always loved DELTA!

Jeremy

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 69): I don't know about anyone else but this stuff is incredibly exciting.

I was thinking the same thing! I'm very excited! The only problem is getting the time off of work to nonrev to all these places!  Great for DL to expand like this, and I hope they do well on these routes!

Quoting B747forever (Reply 25): Is it the first time GOT get a connection to NYC??

No, SAS flew from GOT (don't think it was non-stop) to JFK back in the old days

Quoting EMB170 (Reply 60): Isn't SK double daily certain days during the summer?

No. In the summer SK is daily from ARN and CPH.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 63): Don't they already go double daily to OSL?

No. CO fly daily through the whole year at the moment. However the loads and yields on their OSL route is very good

Also an exotic one annonced DL198 JFK-VLC (Valencia) in the system. Boeing 757 of course

Does anyone know if the ATL-JNB non-stop will be non-stop in just the one direction, or in both directions?

Complete list:

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/081112/154517.html

New destinations are Abuja, Gothenberg, Ho Chi Minh City, Luanda, Malabo Nairobi, and Valencia (Spain).

All African destinations are via Cape Verde, except Nairobi which is via Dakar.

And here's the full press release: http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=11185

Other African destinations are LAD and SSG (both via SID). New Asian destination is SGN. Also JFK-NRT and 2x ATL-NRT. Cool stuff! Good luck Delta!

Quote:

* Trans-Pacific: Delta plans to add three new nonstop trans-Pacific flights between the United States and Tokyo-Narita, Japan, including new nonstop flights from Salt Lake City and New York-JFK, a second daily flight from Atlanta, and daily service connecting customers beyond Tokyo to Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam.

* Africa: Delta will expand its industry-leading position in Africa with new flights between Atlanta and Nairobi, Kenya and Cape Town, South Africa1,5 (via Dakar, Senegal); between Atlanta and Monrovia, Liberia; Abuja, Nigeria; Luanda, Angola; and Malabo, Equatorial Guinea (all via Sal Island, Cape Verde); and between New York-JFK and Lagos, Nigeria1. Delta also will introduce its first daily nonstop service to South Africa with flights between Atlanta and Johannesburg.

* Europe/Middle East: Delta will expand its leading position across the Atlantic with the only nonstop flights operated to Gothenberg, Sweden1 and Valencia, Spain1, both from New York-JFK. Delta also will expand its service at New York-JFK with nonstop service to Prague, Czech Republic and Zurich, Switzerland (seasonal); as well as the addition of a second nonstop flight between New York-JFK and Tel Aviv.

Also...

NRT-JFK
NRT-Hanoi

Will also see Africa service to Malabo and Luanda via Sal Island.

Some frequency upgrades will include JFK-TLV and ATL-NRT going twice daily.

Here's the press release:

http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=11185

SLC-NRT
JFK-NRT
2nd daily ATL-NRT
NRT-SGN
ATL-DKR-NBO
ATL-DKR-CPT
ATL-SID-LAD
ATL-SID-ABV
ATL-SID-Malabo
JFK-LOS
JFK-GOT
JFK-VLC
JFK-ZRH
JFK-PRG
4 additional weekly flights JFK-TLV

[Edited 2008-11-12 10:10:58]

JFK-ZRH & PRG are seasonal.

Also Bucharest back in the system for next year. I thought they had cut that route, but its on Delta.com

Quoting OA412 (Reply 77): Malabo

Malabo is SSG.

So I guess the rumor of a new flight from LAX is a no-go.

Quoting BY188B (Reply 79): Also Bucharest back in the system for next year. I thought they had cut that route, but its on Delta.com

It must have just been a seasonal reduction.

[Edited 2008-11-12 10:15:19]

Quoting Aviationwiz (Reply 73): Does anyone know if the ATL-JNB non-stop will be non-stop in just the one direction, or in both directions?

It's loaded in the schedules as nonstop both directions, with a westbound flying time of 16 hrs 15 min.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 25): Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 9): JFK - Gothenburg has just been announced .... 757 of course, starting June 12. Wow, that is amazing. What will the schedule be like?? Is it the first time GOT get a connection to NYC??

Great news! Swedish newspaper Göteborgsposten is reporting that this will be the first non-stop flight from GOT to the US in almost 30 years. About time!

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 76): Also... NRT-JFK NRT-Hanoi

The flight will be to SGN in southern Vietnam not Hanoi in the north

Quoting OA412 (Reply 77): NRT-SGN

This is HUGE news to me!!! Wow.

I guess the US-Vietnam bilateral was changed to allow two US carriers into the country. Anyhow, wow!!!

Quoting OA412 (Reply 77): SLC-NRT JFK-NRT 2nd daily ATL-NRT

Only further increasing what will be NW/DL's domination over the Pacific/Asian market. Excellent. 

Looks like JFK-Capetown is now a thing of the past. It never did perform very well! Hopefully it does better in ATL!

Got most of them - full press release at http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=11185


Delta’s new international service beginning summer 2009 includes:

Trans-Pacific

New York-JFK to Tokyo-Narita, Japan(1)
June 4, 2009
Boeing 777-200ER
daily

Salt Lake City to Tokyo-Narita, Japan(1,3)
June 3, 2009
Airbus 330-200
five times weekly

Atlanta to Tokyo Narita, Japan(1,3) (second frequency)
May 4, 2009
Boeing 747-400
daily

Tokyo-Narita, Japan to Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam(1,3)
June 1, 2009
Boeing 757-200
daily

Africa
Atlanta to Johannesburg, South Africa(1,2)
June 1, 2009
Boeing 777-200LR
daily

Atlanta to Nairobi, Kenya(1,5)
June 2, 2009
Boeing 767-300ER
four times weekly

Atlanta to Monrovia, Liberia(1,4)
June 8, 2009
Boeing 757-200ER
once weekly

Atlanta to Abuja, Nigeria(1,4)
June 10, 2009
Boeing 757-200ER
twice weekly

Atlanta to Luanda, Angola(1,4)
June 14, 2009
Boeing 757-200ER
twice weekly

Atlanta to Malabo, Equatorial Guinea(1,4)
June 16, 2009
Boeing 757-200ER
once weekly

Atlanta to Cape Town, South Africa(1,5)
June 1, 2009
Boeing 767-300ER
three times weekly

New York-JFK to Lagos, Nigeria(1)
June 9, 2009
Boeing 767-300ER
five times weekly

Europe/Middle East
New York-JFK to Gothenberg, Sweden
June 11, 2009
Boeing 757-200ER
four times weekly

New York-JFK to Prague, Czech Republic(1)
June 18, 2009
Boeing 767-300
three times weekly

New York-JFK to Valencia, Spain(1)
June 5, 2009
Boeing 757-200ER
four times weekly

New York-JFK to Zurich, Switzerland
June 8, 2009
Boeing 757-200ER
daily
(seasonal)

New York-JFK to Tel Aviv(1) (second frequency)
June 30, 2009
Boeing 767-300ER
four times weekly


1. Subject to government approval; Delta today applied with the U.S. Department of transportation seeking authority for the proposed new services on the New York-Tokyo, Atlanta-Luanda and Atlanta-Malabo routes; Delta’s wholly owned subsidiary, Northwest Airlines, Inc. applied for DOT authority to serve Tokyo-Ho Chi Minh City.
2. Replaces flight between Atlanta and Johannesburg via Dakar.
3. Flight operated under Northwest Airlines operating certificate.
4. Flight stops in Sal Island, Cape Verde.
5. Flight stops in Dakar, Senegal; Atlanta-Cape Town service replaces flight from New York-JFK to Cape Town.

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 82): It's loaded in the schedules as nonstop both directions, with a westbound flying time of 16 hrs 15 min.

Nice! Now hopefully their 772LR will be able to compete with the service SA provides, unlike the service currently provided on the 763 and 764.

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 75): Other African destinations are LAD and SSG (both via SID). New Asian destination is SGN. Also JFK-NRT and 2x ATL-NRT. Cool stuff! Good luck Delta!

haha yess!!! I predicted LAD and I was right! Gotta love the oil traffic!

WOW.

To say that DL has been "aggressive" in its international expansion would be a gross understatement.

While some of the routes added over the last few years have been more successful than others, I think it is clear that DL's overarching strategy - shifting domestic capacity to emerging, high-yielding international markets - has been innovative and successful.

Now with the NW merger and this latest expansion we are seeing "Stage Two" in the emergence of a truly global airline. Particularly compelling is the Africa expansion - DL is light years ahead of any would-be competition from the U.S. to Africa. There certainly will be room for the likes of AA and others at larger markets such as JNB and LOS, but being the first in is not without benefits. Also I am not sure that there will be room left at the table at some of the small, high-yielding niche markets. Time will tell.

Having said all this I am a little troubled by the timing of this expansion with respect to current global economic conditions.

I take it DL arent selling tickets to Sal? Any reason why not?

Also do DL have traffic rights on Dakar-CPT/Nairobi

Quoting Aviationwiz (Reply 88): Nice! Now hopefully their 772LR will be able to compete with the service SA provides, unlike the service currently provided on the 763 and 764.

I was looking from ATL to SYD nonstop or via LAX.

Wow!!!!!! This is a dazzling expansion of flights by the new new DELTA.

It's simply amazing what they're doing with all the equipment they have - the 757's are being used to the max, as are the myriad 767's and A330's and the 744's. It will be interesting to watch as the 777 fleet continues to grow, and when the 787's arrive.

Wow, again!

Quoting Humberside (Reply 91): Also do DL have traffic rights on Dakar-CPT/Nairobi

I'm not sure about DKR-NBO, but DL does have passenger traffic rights from DKR-CPT-DKR for the existing DL128/DL129 service from/to JFK.

* Trans-Pacific: Delta plans to add three new nonstop trans-Pacific
flights between the United States and Tokyo-Narita, Japan,
including new nonstop flights from Salt Lake City(1,3) and New York-
JFK(1), a second daily flight from Atlanta(1,3), and daily service
connecting customers beyond Tokyo to Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam(1,3).
* Africa: Delta will expand its industry-leading position in Africa
with new flights between Atlanta and Nairobi, Kenya(1) and Cape Town,
South Africa(1,5) (via Dakar, Senegal); between Atlanta and
Monrovia, Liberia(1); Abuja, Nigeria(1); Luanda, Angola(1); and Malabo,
Equatorial Guinea(1) (all via Sal Island, Cape Verde); and between
New York-JFK and Lagos, Nigeria(1). Delta also will introduce its
first daily nonstop service to South Africa with flights between
Atlanta and Johannesburg(1,2).
* Europe/Middle East: Delta will expand its leading position across
the Atlantic with the only nonstop flights operated to Gothenberg,
Sweden(1) and Valencia, Spain(1), both from New York-JFK. Delta
also will expand its service at New York-JFK with nonstop service
to Prague, Czech Republic(1) and Zurich, Switzerland (seasonal); as
well as the addition of a second nonstop flight between New York-
JFK and Tel Aviv(1).

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/081112/154517.html

Can someone provide a list with operational days and flight schedules for ATL-SID. I'm not having any luck on delta.com.

And still no news regarding HEL! I am bit disappointed that GOT came online before HEL. Will they ever open flight here?

NW/DL is going to have to add a 757 or two to the NRT base. With the addition of NRT-TPE on 757 plus now NRT-SGN... a relatively long round trip for 757's from NRT, they'll need at least 1 additional frame over there.

I am a little surprised that DL has not "connected the dots" by linking ATL and Accra, Ghana. Wouldn't surprise me to see that happen sometime in 2009.

looks like DL is going to repaint a 747 in December to start another service from ATL to NRT

http://www.ajc.com/services/content/...008/11/12/delta_routes_africa.html

ROB was announced about 3 weeks ago and discussed in the following thread.
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4186991/

Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 9): JFK - Gothenburg has just been announced .... 757 of course, starting June 12.

Yay have a cousin in NYC. Brilliant.

Quoting Spyderz (Reply 87): Atlanta to Luanda, Angola(1,4) June 14, 2009 Boeing 757-200ER twice weekly

A B757 won't work for ATL-LAD.
It'd be like to try to cure Cancer with an aspirin.

B.T.W., I think neither the Angolans nor Capeverdians will allow DL traffic rights between SID and LAD.

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 85): I guess the US-Vietnam bilateral was changed to allow two US carriers into the country. Anyhow, wow!!!

The bilateral has always allowed 2 carriers (14 total flights). The hangup had been with the government of Vietnam regarding fifth freedom rights on NRT-SGN, which were absolutely vital to the route's potential.

Good to see some additional African flights on DL plans

Quoting Spyderz (Reply 87): Atlanta to Luanda, Angola(1,4) June 14, 2009 Boeing 757-200ER twice weekly

As mentioned, i'm not sure the 752 can fly this route non-stop. LAD demands cargo and a lot of premium seats, so the best choice would be a 763.

Quoting Spyderz (Reply 87): Atlanta to Johannesburg, South Africa(1,2) June 1, 2009 Boeing 777-200LR daily

That's a nice (and smart) use of the resource !

I'm excited for all these new routes. DL becoming a global airline.

Next I hope I hear that DL orders 40+ A380s.  

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 105): As mentioned, i'm not sure the 752 can fly this route non-stop.

SID-LAD is about the same length as MSP-KEF or ATL-LIM... that should be no problem for the 752 (of course, whether the 763 is a better aircraft in terms of density or cargo capacity is a different question).

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 103): A B757 won't work for ATL-LAD. It'd be like to try to cure Cancer with an aspirin

It looks like it's going to stop in the new scissor hub of SID.

Ok I have a few questions..

Where did the SLC-NRT route come from? Is PDX losing it's flight? PDX is larger than SLC!

And just how are all the 757's going to make it to Africa? I know they will stop at Cape Verde but coming back to the US, with any head wind - won't that create an issue?

I just don't get how some of this will work. Is DL going to start basing some 757's in Africa?

Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 109): And just how are all the 757's going to make it to Africa? I know they will stop at Cape Verde but coming back to the US, with any head wind - won't that create an issue?

Delta obviously feels they can get across the Atlantic from ATL to SID in both directions year-round.

Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 109): I just don't get how some of this will work. Is DL going to start basing some 757's in Africa?

No. No 757s based in Africa. 757s from ATL will be rotated through the system to these flights, and then back from Africa to ATL.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 107): SID-LAD is about the same length as MSP-KEF or ATL-LIM... that should be no problem for the 752 (of course, whether the 763 is a better aircraft in terms of density or cargo capacity is a different question).

Thanks, so they will include a stop at SID.
About the 763, lets DL have some experience on that market, but i expect results to be very good as LAD is under-served in terms of flights to North America.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 110): Delta obviously feels they can get across the Atlantic from ATL to SID in both directions year-round.

= And there is always BDA in case there is a need to divert.

Saludos,
A.

does anyone know the reason why DL isnt offering SID as a destination like they do with DKR?

Interesting note with DL's press releases that they have stopped referring to AMS as a hub (rather than claiming the KLM JV/codeshare operation as an AMS hub as NW did). This makes sense as DL has never claimed CDG to be a hub of theirs, and it doesn't appear they intend to now even with adding routes like PIT/RDU-CDG. Obviously, NRT remains listed as a hub since it is an NW/DL operated venture.

Quoting the release:

Delta Air Lines is the world's largest airline. From its hubs in Atlanta, Cincinnati, Detroit, Memphis, Minneapolis-St. Paul, New York-JFK, Salt Lake City and Tokyo-Narita, Delta, its Northwest Airlines subsidiary and Delta Connection carriers offer service to more than 375 destinations worldwide in 66 countries and serve more than 170 million passengers each year.

Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 109): Where did the SLC-NRT route come from? Is PDX losing it's flight? PDX is larger than SLC!

NW has some slack in the 330 fleet (IIRC they have spares that sit at both DTW and SEA); it's possible that they're able to add this route without affecting any others.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 111): but i expect results to be very good as LAD is under-served in terms of flights to North America.

Do not forget that SonAir (corporate aviaition department of Snangol) intends to put the 744s it acquired from Oasis Hong Kong to god use on routes to US (read IAH), so LAD-US capacity is about to increase significantly.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 115): Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 109): Where did the SLC-NRT route come from? Is PDX losing it's flight? PDX is larger than SLC! NW has some slack in the 330 fleet (IIRC they have spares that sit at both DTW and SEA); it's possible that they're able to add this route without affecting any others.

I dont think the question is so much aircraft avalibility but more along the lines of where are the slots at NRT coming from for SGN, JFK, ATL #2 and SLC....

So a DL 744 in Atl
A DL 332 in SLC

SWWWEEEETTTTTT!!!

Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 109): Where did the SLC-NRT route come from? Is PDX losing it's flight? PDX is larger than SLC!

Maybe from SEA-LHR?

Quoting IliriBDL (Reply 106): DL becoming a global airline.

I agree.....I also think it interesting that DL refered to itself “As America’s flag carrier to the world,..."

That is a bold statement! But it looks like they are bringing back some of Pan Am's old routes. I wonder how long till DL 1 and DL 2 are RTW flights.....

Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 109): Where did the SLC-NRT route come from? Is PDX losing it's flight? PDX is larger than SLC!

But remember, while PDX is larger (and DL used to fly MD 11 PDX to NRT....was on that), SLC is the DL hub.

Dave

Quoting AlexInWa (Reply 118): So a DL 744 in Atl A DL 332 in SLC SWWWEEEETTTTTT!!!

Actually, those would be NW 744s and 330s in ATL and SLC, respectively. Haven't heard when DL is planning to start repainting all NW planes yet.

I think the NRT-SLC flight is somewhat of a joke. But atleast finally NW is getting some more flying. The second daily to NRT from ATL... questionable, the only reason it works is because of NW's huge NRT hub, though I think its overkill, only time will tell. Glad to see that NW guys didn't get any crappy JFK flying though.

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 119): Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 109): Where did the SLC-NRT route come from? Is PDX losing it's flight? PDX is larger than SLC! Maybe from SEA-LHR?

I think we have a winner. I'm not sure why I overlooked that.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 122): The second daily to NRT from ATL... questionable, the only reason it works is because of NW's huge NRT hub, though I think its overkill, only time will tell. Glad to see that NW guys didn't get any crappy JFK flying though.

right now there is more service on ATL-ICN than there is ATL-NRT, largely because of a lack of aircraft I think. The aircraft availability and NW hub allow for it to become a double daily market now. Also people who previously new routes like CLT-DTW-NRT or TPA-DTW-NRT can now use ATL because of more options.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 122): the only reason it works is because of NW's huge NRT hub,

Um, DUH! You spent the better part of the last three days tearing Delta apart because you were afraid of the NW system being dismantled. Now that Delta is USING and integrating the NW network into a larger one as to recognize its complete potential you minimize it???? Now you're sounding contradictory.

Very nice to see DL expanding to even more international destinations.

I think we'll see some more new Intl routes for DL. From what I read a while ago, they are getting 5 new 77Ls in before Apr09. ATL-JNB would account for 2 so there are another 3 77Ls that DL will have so more routes are probably likely to be announced when DL has a better idea when exactly they will get these aircraft. They are being delayed due to the strike at Boeing which has ended.

The777Man

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 121): Actually, those would be NW 744s

There is supposed to be a 744 repainted to DL in Dec....search the forum, I know it has been discussed.

This raises another question, for me, however....will ATL become a 744 base? If a 744 to NRT, why not to LHR or other destinations as well?

Dave

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 121): Actually, those would be NW 744s and 330s in ATL and SLC, respectively. Haven't heard when DL is planning to start repainting all NW planes yet.

The first 744 is to be repainted by December 2008. I suspect it (and another that will be painted in early '09) will be used on the ATL-NRT runs.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 122): I think the NRT-SLC flight is somewhat of a joke. But atleast finally NW is getting some more flying. The second daily to NRT from ATL... questionable, the only reason it works is because of NW's huge NRT hub, though I think its overkill, only time will tell. Glad to see that NW guys didn't get any crappy JFK flying though.

The quicker everyone considers the merged DL and NW a single airline, the easier the transition will be. I work for a company that was a somewhat unwilling target of acquisition and know it hurts to have your corporate identity dismantled by someone else. Nonetheless, for external stakeholders (namely passengers), it's better to act like a single company as quickly as possible. I know they will continue to operate under separate certificates for a time, but I'm sure that eventually former NW pilots will be flying into and out of JFK and ATL just as much as legacy DL pilots will be flying into and out of DTW and MSP.

Quoting Davescj (Reply 127): This raises another question, for me, however....will ATL become a 744 base? If a 744 to NRT, why not to LHR or other destinations as well?

Because the 744s are exclusively for TPAC routes, I doubt we'll see any more 744 flying at ATL until a base opens there. Certainly, though, there are other routes that could use the capacity.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 124): Also people who previously new routes like CLT-DTW-NRT or TPA-DTW-NRT can now use ATL because of more options.

It's good to have more options, but DTW offers a far better connecting experience than does ATL (especially if connecting to mainline).

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 103): A B757 won't work for ATL-LAD. It'd be like to try to cure Cancer with an aspirin.

I'm curious how LAD and SSG will work since 99% of the traffic goes to IAH, which already has a major charter program to LAD, and has several one stop options to SSG.

Quoting Davescj (Reply 127): There is supposed to be a 744 repainted to DL in Dec....search the forum, I know it has been discussed.

I have read the thread, but I haven't seen a press release about it yet. I remember Anderson specifically stating in the merger press conference that 744s were to be moved to ATL, particularly for ATL-South America runs (eg, GRU, GIG).

Quoting The777Man (Reply 126): I think we'll see some more new Intl routes for DL. From what I read a while ago, they are getting 5 new 77Ls in before Apr09. ATL-JNB would account for 2 so there are another 3 77Ls that DL will have so more routes are probably likely

the 777's for JFK-NRT have to come from somewhere too, I havent seen any times yet to see if its tied back into NRT-ATL or might there be another 777 route from JFK, such as TLV perhaps.

Some noce utilization and aircraft rotation with:

ATL-TLV-JFK-NRT-ATL
ATL-NRT-JFK-TLV-ATL

Can all that be done with just 4 airplanes?

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 132): Can all that be done with just 4 airplanes?

With properly timed flights, absolutely. I bet that's exactly what DL will do.

Jeremy

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 130): I'm curious how LAD and SSG will work since 99% of the traffic goes to IAH, which already has a major charter program to LAD, and has several one stop options to SSG.

I find it hard to believe that anyone who has the option of flying IAH-LAD on the "houston express" service operated by world airways with MD 11 would consider IAH-ATL-SID-LAD on a 752 a viable alternative.

JFK-GOT was a really big "Wow!" from my side. I really thought we would see ATL-OSL. I'm honestly chocked!  

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 132): the 777's for JFK-NRT have to come from somewhere too

772 routes will be:
ATL-NRT daily
ATL-DXB daily
ATL-TLV daily
ATL-PVG daily
JFK-NRT daily
ATL-KWI 4 weekly
ATL-ICN 4 weekly

so yeah, scheduling and deployment is gonna be a challenge!

Quoting OA412 (Reply 77):

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 132):

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 133):

But JFK-TLV is all 763 (including the new flights). So the only possibility, unless something changes, is ATL-NRT-JFK-NRT-ATL, or just plain JFK-NRT-JFK. Not sure what the schedules are like so check if that would work.

Quoting Airbuske (Reply 34): JKIA is named after our nations founding father, so I highly doubt that will ever happen. However, I see them naming the airport near Obama's hometown which they plan to upgrade to accomodate the Airforce 1 after him.

Still don't think he's ever going to take AF1 to there.

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 85): This is HUGE news to me!!! Wow. I guess the US-Vietnam bilateral was changed to allow two US carriers into the country. Anyhow, wow!!!

NW has been waiting to do this route for a long time.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 92): I was looking from ATL to SYD nonstop or via LAX.

So was I to make it a truly global airline, but SYD will probably from SEA when NW (likely to be operated by NW flight deck crews) /DL gets the 787, thats what NW had in mind.

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 98): NW/DL is going to have to add a 757 or two to the NRT base. With the addition of NRT-TPE on 757 plus now NRT-SGN... a relatively long round trip for 757's from NRT, they'll need at least 1 additional frame over there.

With the dropping of Guangzhou there should be enough, plus they have a couple spares.

Quoting Deltadude (Reply 100): looks like DL is going to repaint a 747 in December to start another service from ATL to NRT

I don't think its specifically just for that, I think it would be great to see a combined livery like one side NW other side DL, somewhat of a acknoledgement or something.

Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 109): Where did the SLC-NRT route come from?

Seattle.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 115): NW has some slack in the 330 fleet (IIRC they have spares that sit at both DTW and SEA); it's possible that they're able to add this route without affecting any others.

Well the only extra's in DTW are A333's.

Quoting AlexInWa (Reply 118): So a DL 744 in Atl A DL 332 in SLC SWWWEEEETTTTTT!!!

It will likely still be in NW colors.

Quoting Davescj (Reply 120): I agree.....I also think it interesting that DL refered to itself “As America’s flag carrier to the world,..." That is a bold statement!

Well considering they serve more international and us destinations than any of the other carriers yeah, now to make them truly global as they claim, they need service to Australia/New Zealand.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 121): Haven't heard when DL is planning to start repainting all NW planes

Starting Spring 2009 (except the 744) through 2011.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 122): I think the NRT-SLC flight is somewhat of a joke. But atleast finally NW is getting some more flying. The second daily to NRT from ATL... questionable, the only reason it works is because of NW's huge NRT hub, though I think its overkill, only time will tell.

Did you think that SLC-CDG was a joke also?

NRT-ATL is one of the most profitable flights on the Delta network, BEFORE having the hub to connect beyond. ATL #2 is a no-brainer, in fact it was one of the first decisions made.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 130): I'm curious how LAD and SSG will work since 99% of the traffic goes to IAH, which already has a major charter program to LAD, and has several one stop options to SSG.

Mav, the same way that NBO and DXB work. We aren't talking about a ton of capacity anyway. Go to IAH and check out the gatehouse when the DL8 boards. It is the through flight to DXB, operated as a change of gauge in ATL. The thing is PACKED with people going on to DXB. Most aren't execs, but rather riggers and grunts who come to Houston for training and such. They usually are flying in business class on the ATL-DXB portion, or at least paying premium fares in coach.

Also keep in mind that charter programs often exist because of the lack of quality scheduled service. And often disappear when alternatives are available.

But, I think the cool thing here is that who really knows if it is going to work? But it sure the hell is ballsy! And definitely not a me-too network philosophy. It's pretty clear that the new Delta isn't going to be a passive player in this crazy business.

Quoting EMB170 (Reply 53): Not really...remember DL and OK have ATI...(is this with AF also?) So they will split profits either carrier makes on the route 50/50 (or is it 33/33/33?)

ATI doesn't automatically mean a joint venture and profit sharing. Depends on the agreement between the carriers.

Quoting Spyderz (Reply 87): Atlanta to Monrovia, Liberia(1,4) June 8, 2009 Boeing 757-200ER once weekly

What is a 757-200ER? Boeing never built a 757 with that designation. Is that just an in-house DL term, or has DL actually converted some 752s into -ER aircraft with extra fuel tanks in the cargo compartment (Iike the 4 USAF VIP C-32As)?

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 138): Mav, the same way that NBO and DXB work. We aren't talking about a ton of capacity anyway. Go to IAH and check out the gatehouse when the DL8 boards. It is the through flight to DXB, operated as a change of gauge in ATL. The thing is PACKED with people going on to DXB. Most aren't execs, but rather riggers and grunts who come to Houston for training and such.

A) NBO isn't working yet. B) Those grunts are flying WO right now.

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 138): Also keep in mind that charter programs often exist because of the lack of quality scheduled service.

How is a two stop twice a week superior to three weekly nonstops?

Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 136): But JFK-TLV is all 763 (including the new flights). So the only possibility, unless something changes, is ATL-NRT-JFK-NRT-ATL, or just plain JFK-NRT-JFK. Not sure what the schedules are like so check if that would work.

I was implying that JFK-TLV would be upgraded.

I also wonder if the ICN flight will go away in favor of more NRT flying and the NRT hub? (KE codeshare flight to remain)

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 137): Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 85): This is HUGE news to me!!! Wow. I guess the US-Vietnam bilateral was changed to allow two US carriers into the country. Anyhow, wow!!! NW has been waiting to do this route for a long time.

  I suspect the route has everything to do with the government of Vietnam (finally) caving and little or nothing to do with the merger.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 141): I also wonder if the ICN flight will go away in favor of more NRT flying and the NRT hub? (KE codeshare flight to remain)

There is no JFKICN on DL, it's all codeshare flights with KE.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 137): Seattle.

Say what? Why would NRTSEA go anywhere?

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 140): A) NBO isn't working yet. B) Those grunts are flying WO right now.

Sorry, I meant LOS, not NBO.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 140): How is a two stop twice a week superior to three weekly nonstops?

Here is how it works:

Chartered aircraft: VERY expensive

Scheduled service: Not nearly as expensive

The people paying the bills prefer the later. Which is precisely why you see charters dry up when scheduled service is offered.

Besides, I'm not claiming they are going to get it all. My point about the limited capacity should have made that clear. Keep in mind that DL has been flying LOS for nearly a year now. They've learned a lot about these markets and the customer base. They've also established corporate contracts with the key players. They aren't flying into these markets blind.

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 138): Did you think that SLC-CDG was a joke also?

No, Europe and Asia are vastly different. I just think its somewhat a joke to connect to the RJ hub of the west to gain very few destinations that most Asian's would want to go to, granted it does minimize one stop taking possible share away from UA. I would expect UA or one of their carriers to react to NRT-DEN, which I think would beat SLC hands down.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 124): right now there is more service on ATL-ICN than there is ATL-NRT, largely because of a lack of aircraft I think

More in part that Korean is flying one flight and Delta is flying the other 4 times a week for now. Also its Korean's hub, NRT wasn't except NW's.

Quoting Luckyone (Reply 125): Now that Delta is USING and integrating the NW network into a larger one as to recognize its complete potential you minimize it???? Now you're sounding contradictory.

How am i recognizing it? NRT-SGN has been planned for quite sometime, and are they going to waste a 744 by running ATL-NRT instead of DTW-PVG this summer?

Quoting Davescj (Reply 127): This raises another question, for me, however....will ATL become a 744 base? If a 744 to NRT, why not to LHR or other destinations as well?

Unlikely, no word of that yet, and with only 16 frames DTW will likely remain the sole base. No reason to move anything since they can all start their trips in DTW and then have ATL as just a turn.

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 128): The first 744 is to be repainted by December 2008. I suspect it (and another that will be painted in early '09) will be used on the ATL-NRT runs.

I doubt they are going to designate these aircraft solely to this route, that wouldn't be effective fleet planning.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 139): What is a 757-200ER? Boeing never built a 757 with that designation.

757-200 with Winglets.

Seasonal DL B752 service to ZRH from JFK? They've tried this route in the past and it didn't last. DL is going to get absolutely slaughtered on the ZRH-NYC market with five daily flights on behalf of LX (A332 & BBJ), CO (B762/4) and AA (B763) already operating.

Quoting Simairlinenet (Reply 19): 4) One LAX route.

that today?

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 24): hopefully, ATL-HKG

not yet sorry

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 122):

anyone eles feel the love?  

Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 136): ATL-NRT daily ATL-DXB daily ATL-TLV daily ATL-PVG daily JFK-NRT daily ATL-KWI 4 weekly ATL-ICN 4 weekly

ok
from may DL will have 8 77Es and 6 77Ls
ATL-BOM
ATL-NRT
ATL-DXB
ATL-TLV
ATL-PVG
ATL-ICN 4x weekly
ATL-KWI 4x weekly
ATL-JNB
JFK-NRT

Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 136): But JFK-TLV is all 763 (including the new flights). So the only possibility, unless something changes, is ATL-NRT-JFK-NRT-ATL, or just plain JFK-NRT-JFK. Not sure what the schedules are like so check if that would work.

I would think thats how it will work

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 144): Say what? Why would NRTSEA go anywhere?

Nor NRTSEA... LHRSEA.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 130): I'm curious how LAD and SSG will work since 99% of the traffic goes to IAH, which already has a major charter program to LAD, and has several one stop options to SSG.

People in IAH also make use of one-stop service via CDG and LHR to LAD (AF and BA both operate to both cities and much of the traffic is travelling specifically between IAH and LAD.)

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 143): There is no JFKICN on DL, it's all codeshare flights with KE.

I was referring to ATL-ICN, that would free up some 777 time.

Quoting AviationMaster (Reply 147):

Why they want to enter an overserved market with an inferiour product (seasonal, narrow body) given the fact that business traffic between the two financial centers Zurich and New York is going to slide due to the financial crisis is beyond me.

I do admit that we have seen quite a surge in US bound vacationers out of ZRH, but this traffic is low yield and also set to decline as the USD strenghtens against the CHF.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 151): I was referring to ATL-ICN, that would free up some 777 time.

It wouldn't surprise me if that went away, especially with the addition of NRTSGN which is one of the top, if not the top OD on ATLICN.

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 145): The people paying the bills prefer the later. Which is precisely why you see charters dry up when scheduled service is offered.

That might be the case if Exxon were behind the charter, but it's the Angolan national oil company, and their interest to be transparent or profitable is not quite the same. If Sonair goes away the route will be very strong. If not, well, I've always wanted to go to LAD.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 137): So was I to make it a truly global airline, but SYD will probably from SEA when NW (likely to be operated by NW flight deck crews) /DL gets the 787, thats what NW had in mind.

Well leason one,
O/D is king
2) this is now Delta not NW, NW wanted JFK-NRT with a 787........now its a 777 with Delta,
Expect oh i'd say ATL-LAX-SYD 4x weekly by 2010  

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 138): NRT-ATL is one of the most profitable flights on the Delta network, BEFORE having the hub to connect beyond. ATL #2 is a no-brainer, in fact it was one of the first decisions made.

Jet don't waste the time, He is mad becuase of DL taking over NW, Anything DL does to him is stupid

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 141): I also wonder if the ICN flight will go away in favor of more NRT flying and the NRT hub? (KE codeshare flight to remain)

No

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 146): No, Europe and Asia are vastly different. I just think its somewhat a joke to connect to the RJ hub of the west to gain very few destinations that most Asian's would want to go to, granted it does minimize one stop taking possible share away from UA. I would expect UA or one of their carriers to react to NRT-DEN, which I think would beat SLC hands down.

Your just mad that MEM-NRT didn't and isn't going to happen

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 146): How am i recognizing it? NRT-SGN has been planned for quite sometime, and are they going to waste a 744 by running ATL-NRT instead of DTW-PVG this summer?

Waste? Yes becuase China is where they need to send airplanes..........Do you know what your talking about or you just say this stuff all the time? Try to see past the hate for a second and think about what your saying man.

Quoting The777Man (Reply 126):

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 148):

I think they will have 8 777LR's by may and 8 ER's

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 145): Here is how it works: Chartered aircraft: VERY expensive Scheduled service: Not nearly as expensive The people paying the bills prefer the later. Which is precisely why you see charters dry up when scheduled service is offered.

And the service and cabin offered on the charter blows anything that Delta can offer on the 757 out of the water.

113 seats on the MD11 in an all First/Biz/Econ layout (keeping in mind that 'econ' on the MD11 is what most airlines in the US offer as Domestic first).
Non-stop on a private MD11, vs 2 stops on a 757....give me the MD11.

I'm curious about their new trans-pacific route plan. Are they going to focus on NRT as their Asian hub? or moved to ICN or expand codeshare with, their Sky Team partner, KE?

I would love to see DL take on CO at EWR with some TATL routes (wishful thinking) for some competition. Maybe take over the current AF EWR-CDG like they are supposedly going to do with PHL-CDG. But I would presume that they would at least keep the current NW EWR-AMS route, either on 763 or 757.

Other new, surprising routes that I could see:

BOS-CDG 757
BOS-GLA 757
BWI-AMS 757
PHL-AMS 757
IAD-AMS 763
BDL-AMS or CDG or LHR on 757

Quoting Speedbird0125 (Reply 157): I'm curious about their new trans-pacific route plan. Are they going to focus on NRT as their Asian hub? or moved to ICN or expand codeshare with, their Sky Team partner, KE?

DL will continue to grow NRT as a primary trans-Asian/Pacific hub, and add codeshare destinations with KE from ICN to balance it.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 154): Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 141): I also wonder if the ICN flight will go away in favor of more NRT flying and the NRT hub? (KE codeshare flight to remain) No

Whats your guess on where the 777ER is coming from? Only other thing would be if some of the new LR's take over an existing ER route.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 160): Whats your guess on where the 777ER is coming from? Only other thing would be if some of the new LR's take over an existing ER route.

hey thats an idea  
my guess is ATL-DXB will become 77L
the 77Es will come from that
4 new LRs 1 new route. its an idea

Also looking at a route map for the new flights for Delta (via DLnet) it shows LAX-LHR.......hmmmmm could the SEA slot be moving south?
(also note doesn't show routes on KLM or AF only DL/NW)

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 161): hey thats an idea my guess is ATL-DXB will become 77L the 77Es will come from that

Does that work with the times? or would the free'd up 777 have to come from a "west route" ?

I E leaves between 10 and 2pm, not 9pm like DXB.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 162): Does that work with the times? or would the free'd up 777 have to come from a "west route" ? I E leaves between 10 and 2pm, not 9pm like DXB.

It should work out. Might have to shuffle some things around though.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 139): ATI doesn't automatically mean a joint venture and profit sharing. Depends on the agreement between the carriers.

But it does in this particular case.

DL/NW/AF/KL/AZ/OK are all tied together in a transatlantic joint venture where carriers share profits.


The way I understand it, though, the sharing would happen between whichever American and European carriers has a stake in the route, i.e.

DL/OK JFK/ATL-PRG
DL/AF USA-CDG, JFK-LYS/NCE, LAX-LHR (before AF canceled it)
NW/KL USA-AMS
DL/AZ USA-FCO, USA-MXP, JFK-PSA/VCE

plus whatever codeshared post-hub connections they have on both sides.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I just can't imagine OK getting a piece of DL's ATL-MAD, for example.

Quoting OOer (Reply 86): Looks like JFK-Capetown is now a thing of the past. It never did perform very well! Hopefully it does better in ATL!

If I read all the above correctly, it will also no longer be able to connect at DKR between JFK and JNB. I would have thought that New York and vicinity would be one of the largest O&D markets to/from JNB. Passengers to/from NYC will now have to connect at ATL which is over 1000 nm further than the current routing via DKR and probably means at least 2 hours longer elapsed time.

Quoting Flyer732 (Reply 156): And the service and cabin offered on the charter blows anything that Delta can offer on the 757 out of the water. 113 seats on the MD11 in an all First/Biz/Econ layout (keeping in mind that 'econ' on the MD11 is what most airlines in the US offer as Domestic first). Non-stop on a private MD11, vs 2 stops on a 757....give me the MD11.

The point being what? How much do you suppose World is charging for that service? Now, even if the Angolan national oil company or whoever is paying for the plane, there is still other traffic flowing between the U.S. and Angola. Some of it oil related, some of it not. The charter is not an option for much of the O&D market at all. For the rest of the world, scheduled service is going to be the option.

If Mav is correct and the Angolan oil outfit is the charter customer, it will probably stay that way. But these charters aren't typically open to the public and there is certainly no inter-lining available. And anyone east of Houston isn't likely to find the backhaul too attractive anyway. So one connection and a fuel-stop may not be too bad a deal.

Again, its very little capacity. Of course it may not work, but I wouldn't bet against it.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 165): Passengers to/from NYC will now have to connect at ATL which is over 1000 nm further than the current routing via DKR and probably means at least 2 hours longer elapsed time.

True, but having flown from NY to/from South Africa, personally I would prefer the ATL routing. I could leave from LGA, and then have a nice uninterrupted sleep (on a lie-flat seat, if in business). Stopping at DKR in the middle of the night is no fun.

Quoting Delta763 (Reply 164): DL/NW/AF/KL/AZ/OK are all tied together in a transatlantic joint venture where carriers share profits.

There is no joint venture between ALL these carriers. NW/KL/AF/DL all applied for a 4 way joint venture and the above mentioned carriers all applied for antitrust. There is a big difference here.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 165): If I read all the above correctly, it will also no longer be able to connect at DKR between JFK and JNB. I would have thought that New York and vicinity would be one of the largest O&D markets to/from JNB. Passengers to/from NYC will now have to connect at ATL which is over 1000 nm further than the current routing via DKR and probably means at least 2 hours longer elapsed time.

Well when you're on a flight THAT long, what's another 2 hours anyway?? I took that flt from DEN-JFK-DKR-CPT back in June and I thought it would NEVER be over. Thank god I was riding upfront!  


What I'm interested to see is how the 777LR does westbound from JNB to ATL. I see major operational issues in the summer with cargo and non-revs left behind.

Quoting NW (Reply 168): There is no joint venture between ALL these carriers. NW/KL/AF/DL all applied for a 4 way joint venture and the above mentioned carriers all applied for antitrust. There is a big difference here.

After doing a little Googling I see that you're right and I stand corrected. Thanks for clearing that up.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 110): Delta obviously feels they can get across the Atlantic from ATL to SID in both directions year-round.

I'd prefer that they base such decisions on calculation, not feelings.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 132): ATL-TLV-JFK-NRT-ATL ATL-NRT-JFK-TLV-ATL Can all that be done with just 4 airplanes?

It could be done with six:

ATL-NRT-ATL-TLV-ATL takes three planes to run daily.
JFK-NRT-JFK-TLV-JFK would take three planes to run daily.

That equals six, and it doesn't much matter if you swap the middles with each other.

Some interesting choices today, which leaves me with some questions:

1) Why no expansion at any NW hubs?

2) Where's the LAX and SEA expansion to Japan that we've been hearing about?

3) Can ATL sustain 2x daily service to NRT, and what impact will this have on ATL-ICN? Now that DL can connect to just about all major destinations on their own metal through NRT, do they need as much capacity to ICN?

I'm skeptical about a few of these (SLC-NRT, JFK-GOT, and some of the Africa), and also think the gauge is questionable in some cases (seems like a daily 777 and 747 is a bit much for ATL-NRT, SGN should be a bigger plane, JFK-ZRH on a 752 is a joke) but overall I think this is exciting news for DL and international travellers!

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 172): SGN should be a bigger plane,

argee but read below

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 172): JFK-ZRH on a 752 is a joke

I think this flight and the one above are to get the foot in the door and see what happens. Then upgrade if needed.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 154): Expect oh i'd say ATL-LAX-SYD 4x weekly by 2010

This would be an absolutely suicidal move on DL's part. If they want to succeed in SYD, they have to fly the route daily otherwise it will be impossible for them to attract the all important high yield business customer and they will be eaten alive by the likes of QF, UA, and V Australia.

First of all. Great news Delta! It's good to finally see a US legacy go where the money is or at least look for new revenue markets.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 61): There are plenty of examples of this. I discussed LIS and (potentially) GVA above, but there are others. WAW comes to mind.

LIS is well protected by *A. In the Summer you have TP double daily, CO, and US.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 69): Wow, never thought I'd see that. I don't know about anyone else but this stuff is incredibly exciting. This is why I've always loved DELTA!

Yes, but lets not forget none of this would be possible without the NW aquisition.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 105): As mentioned, i'm not sure the 752 can fly this route non-stop. LAD demands cargo and a lot of premium seats, so the best choice would be a 763.

It's not non-stop. The flight will stop at SID. I also doubt the demand for premium on this twice weekly only flight from ATL with a stop in SID, which won't really be any more convenient than the existing non-stop charters from IAH.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 173): I think this flight and the one above are to get the foot in the door and see what happens. Then upgrade if needed.

Before upgrading JFK-ZRH, they'd need to make it a year-round service. If I'm correct, they tried JFK-ZRH a couple of years ago with a B763 and failed to succeed. IMO it just doesn't make any sense to enter a market that is already well served by LX, CO and AA. And with a CO/LX partnership down the road, things won't get easier for DL in the Switzerland-NYC market.

Quoting HAJFlyer (Reply 116): Do not forget that SonAir (corporate aviaition department of Snangol) intends to put the 744s it acquired from Oasis Hong Kong to god use on routes to US (read IAH), so LAD-US capacity is about to increase significantly.

Very good point, but how SonAir will face DL competition considering that TAAG for example, has a lot of corporate with their own restrictions (do not let their employees flying TAAG).

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 131): I have read the thread, but I haven't seen a press release about it yet. I remember Anderson specifically stating in the merger press conference that 744s were to be moved to ATL, particularly for ATL-South America runs (eg, GRU, GIG).

I do believe South America is not the focus right now, but they may look for further expansion in Brazil flying for example to BSB. Concerning to the 744, i do believe as they will be announcing soon LAX-GRU, the route from ATL should continue with 764 as well as ATL-GIG.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 173): Quoting RwSEA (Reply 172): JFK-ZRH on a 752 is a joke I think this flight and the one above are to get the foot in the door and see what happens. Then upgrade if needed.

It's not even year round.

Quoting BY188B (Reply 79): Also Bucharest back in the system for next year. I thought they had cut that route, but its on Delta.com

JFK-OTP did very well in the summer months but would fall apart in the fall/winter except during specific peak winter periods. That, combined with $140 oil effectively put an end to the route. Now that oil is back down to $60 or less, the economics of JFK-OTP have obviously changed as well, hence it will be back for summer 2009 at 4x weekly.

Quoting AviationMaster (Reply 176): If I'm correct, they tried JFK-ZRH a couple of years ago with a B763 and failed to succeed.

Yes, JFK-ZRH was started after the SR partnership ended but was canned after 9/11. After AA started JFK-ZRH service with the 763 in late 2001, there was simply no room for another player in the NYC-ZRH market. ZRH is quite strong during the summer (remember that DL even used to have an M11 operate ZRH-ATL) and this flight is to supplement the existing ATL flight. I don't think DL has any wild ideas about winning over the corporate JFK-ZRH market considering that only 15 J seats will be on sale per flight...

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 172): JFK-ZRH on a 752 is a joke

Someone is going to need to fill the void on the route for Skyteam when CO changes to *A.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 172): 1) Why no expansion at any NW hubs?

Agreed, Where is the expansion from MSP and DTW??? Nothing? While this is all very exciting news and I am very happy to see DL expanding around the world, how come there is no expansion from the former NW cities? I understand these are business moves, to provide aircraft where there is demand for them, but there has to be something in the works for the former NW cities. Does anyone know is MSP or DTW is going to loose intl. service? Also, I haven't read what is going to happen with AMS? Will it be dismantled? I am sure the AMS BOM service will go, can we expect a reduction in the MSP/DTW-AMS service? Will KLM start operations again to MSP and DTW? I know these are a lot of questions, but these are all things I have not read about yet!

I think I have read through all of the posts and no one has corrected this topic:

NRT-SGN will not have local traffic rights. NW wanted to start the route for a long time but was lobbying to get local passenger rights for NRT-SGN. Those were never granted.....DL thinks that they can make the flight work purely with connecting passengers. NW would not have wanted to take the risk.....but DL is willing to.

Surprised by the 757 expansion to Africa instead of JFK to Europe 757 flying. Also RDU/PIT to CDG is a real surprise too.

Quoting Cbphoto (Reply 181): Does anyone know is MSP or DTW is going to loose intl. service? Also, I haven't read what is going to happen with AMS?

AMS is solid year round. MSP-LHR is a big question mark right now. The flight goes out rather full in WBC but empty in coach. It will be interesting to see what happens to that flight in the long run.

Quoting Cbphoto (Reply 181): Agreed, Where is the expansion from MSP and DTW??? Nothing? While this is all very exciting news and I am very happy to see DL expanding around the world, how come there is no expansion from the former NW cities? I understand these are business moves, to provide aircraft where there is demand for them, but there has to be something in the works for the former NW cities. Does anyone know is MSP or DTW is going to loose intl. service? Also, I haven't read what is going to happen with AMS? Will it be dismantled? I am sure the AMS BOM service will go, can we expect a reduction in the MSP/DTW-AMS service? Will KLM start operations again to MSP and DTW? I know these are a lot of questions, but these are all things I have not read about yet!

Who said they are done?

Quoting PHXtoDCAtoMSP (Reply 182): NRT-SGN will not have local traffic rights. NW wanted to start the route for a long time but was lobbying to get local passenger rights for NRT-SGN. Those were never granted.....DL thinks that they can make the flight work purely with connecting passengers. NW would not have wanted to take the risk.....but DL is willing to.

if they can't get it to work i'm betting it moves via HKG like UA had to do.
ATL-HKG-SGN 77L

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 85): I guess the US-Vietnam bilateral was changed to allow two US carriers into the country.

The US-Vietnam bilateral was updated slighty this year but did include the golden prize of carrying Tokyo -Saigon local passengers like all other Tokyo-beyond international flights currently have.

NRT-SGN will have to rely on feed from all of its transpac services from the U.S. Perhaps that will be enough to fill a 757...

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 183): Surprised by the 757 expansion to Africa instead of JFK to Europe 757 flying. Also RDU/PIT to CDG is a real surprise too.

Not at all. US-Europe is very competitive and about to get even more saturated as a result of Open Skies. Africa is a growing market. Everyone is increasing service to Africa. The European carriers, the Middle Eastern carriers, and now DL is getting in on the action too. For a long time now the European carriers have been reaping the benefits of US-Africa business due to the lack of a US carrier in that market. I'm sure other US airlines would love to expand in Africa except they don't have the metal to do it.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 187): I'm sure other US airlines would love to expand in Africa except they don't have the metal to do it.

plus Delta is grabing up all the rights. They have 14 out of the 21 flights into SA.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 172): 1) Why no expansion at any NW hubs?

Hate to correct you but NRT is a NW hub

How long before we see DL fly around the world using the NRT hub?

ATL-NRT-BOM-ATL
or
ATL/DTW/MSP-NRT-BOM-CDG/AMS-ATL/MSP/DTW

Quoting PHXtoDCAtoMSP (Reply 182): DL thinks that they can make the flight work purely with connecting passengers.

I would think that the NRT hub has enough feed to fill the flight. From the US alone you've got ATL/DTW/MSP/SEA/PDX/SFO/LAX/HNL/SLC/JFK-NRT. Take into consideration there are 2 flights from some of those cities. So, that is roughly 9-13 widebodies from the US feeding a 180 seat 757.

Quoting NWA757300 (Reply 190): I would think that the NRT hub has enough feed to fill the flight. From the US alone you've got ATL/DTW/MSP/SEA/PDX/SFO/LAX/HNL/SLC/JFK-NRT. Take into consideration there are 2 flights from some of those cities. So, that is roughly 9-13 widebodies from the US feeding a 180 seat 757.

I'm not doubting that it will work. Just commenting on the fact that the only thing that changed was the view of the route's viability from NW management to DL management....not a change in the bilateral treaty. Also, it will be on a 75A, with 160 seats, so it will technically be even easier to fill. I think NW must have wanted the local rights so they could begin the route with an A332. But I think the 75A will do just fine.

This is a great day for Delta and proof that there are still opportunities for int'l growth in the airline industry despite the economic crisis that exists in the world. So why is DL able to make an announcement this big:

1. Africa: DL has been in the Africa market for several years and has figured out where the business and leisure traffic is. Leisure traffic to Africa is more valuable than alot of the business traffic to Europe. Business traffic -esp oil related - is worth a fortune, even if it is in small numbers. Having a very flexible schedule in order to fly to cities a couple days a week or less; being already established in big markets like S. Africa, Nigeria, and Ghana; riding the coat tails of the new Administration in Washington that will undoubtedly put much more focus on Africa from the US; and having the only 777LRs among US and S. Africa airline fleets gives DL real advantages.

2. Europe/ Middle East: the strength of the AF-DL-KL-NW joint venture and 6 way ATI include the JV carriers plus AZ and OK provide opportunities for growth in addition to highly successful markets such as Spain and Israel and the willingness to go to markets that are unserved like GOT.

3. Asia: obviously the heart of the DL/NW merger is the Pacific network and DL will clearly push much more traffic through NRT, increasing the value of intra-Asian flow traffic. DL will clearly be a massive force between the US and Japan with service to every corner of the US. NW's unique position in NRT allows DL to grow in Asia without expending large amounts of resources.

Even though this is a massive expansion, there are indications that it's not over yet and the cities that seem to be missing from the announcement such as MSP and LAX are cities where DL is negotiating with local authorities for changes in its usage/terminal agreements.

DL has every route to say that it is the US' premier international airline - no other carrier offers as much service to as many places around the globe directly from the 50 United States.

Congrats to DL for remaining strong in the midst of crisis and for carrying the US flag around the world with great style!

Quoting Davescj (Reply 120): That is a bold statement! But it looks like they are bringing back some of Pan Am's old routes.

They never will be...took them 17 years to start flying route authorities that they raped from PA in '91.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 185): if they can't get it to work i'm betting it moves via HKG like UA had to do. ATL-HKG-SGN 77L

They could also move it to another Japanese airport; IIRC Vietnam is willing to grant fifth freedom rights over KIX or NGO. I'm not convinced that one of those would necessarily be better than HKG, but they are options.

It's important, too, to keep in mind that this flight can still carry connecting traffic from SPN, HNL, DTW, MSP, ATL, JFK, SLC, and GUM. That's still a decently long list.

Quoting PlaneGuy27 (Reply 186): The US-Vietnam bilateral was updated slighty this year but did include the golden prize of carrying Tokyo -Saigon local passengers like all other Tokyo-beyond international flights currently have.

I'm confused; the bilateral didn't say anything about 5th freedom rights before (they were granted to VN and UA on a case by case basis). What, if anything, does it say now?

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 188): plus Delta is grabing up all the rights. They have 14 out of the 21 flights into SA.

10 out of 21.

Plus, South Africa is very flexible with expanding air treaties quickly. They do it for other countries, they'll do it for the U.S. Countries like Nigeria and Ghana are open skies, as are the Cape Verde Islands.

Other countries will gladly welcome any new service, although corruption might stand in the way.

There is lots of value in Africa - traffic rights are not one of them.

[Edited 2008-11-12 17:06:54]

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 195): Plus, South Africa is very flexible with expanding air treaties quickly. They do it for other countries, they'll do it for the U.S.

don't hold your breath. SAA is in no position to have two more US carriers in the US-SA market ; DL alone will put a world of hurt on SAA by offering the only nonstop service between the US and SA in both directions - which makes SA much less competitive in dozens of connecting markets.

DL has established itself in Africa as the dominant airline and they are not about to roll out the red carpet for a new competitor.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 192): 3. Asia: obviously the heart of the DL/NW merger is the Pacific network and DL will clearly push much more traffic through NRT, increasing the value of intra-Asian flow traffic.

Not so fast there WT. Just wait until DL loads all of the "interport" aircraft downgauges....you'll see that the beyond NRT points will play less of a role in the post merger DL.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 195): 10 out of 21.

When did Delta give the other four back?
I know they got them and almost did DKR-CPT daily but changed there minds. I didn't see anything aobut them give the f4 back though.

Quoting Phxtodcatomsp (Reply 198): Just wait until DL loads all of the "interport" aircraft downgauges....you'll see that the beyond NRT points will play less of a role in the post merger DL.

I have said all along that DL won't be flying 744s within Asia, esp. beyond NGO and KIX... doing so makes no sense.

That doesn't diminish the value of the NRT hub... all it does is make the hub more valuable by reducing intra-Asia costs.

Quoting UnitedNRT (Reply 66): SLC-NRT has been added with 332

Quoting OA412 (Reply 67): Wow exciting news for us in SLC!

. Congrats to SLC, it must be very exciting for you to get new service to ASIA when everyone doubted it.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 185): Who said they are done?

Well I guess the DTW-PVG will be operated by a 777 considering that ATL - NRT is being operated by the 744 taken off of DTW-KIX. Although, I'm not quite sure.

Probably most of the expansion as of now is from DL hubs because DL knows their hubs better than the former DTW hubs. They probably need more time to evaluate what opportunities the NW hubs have. (Am I being to naive?) Also, if DL is getting more 777's, then maybe some of those will pop up in MSP and DTW.

What about the DTW-FCO flight? Is that not happening at all?

Congrats to ATL for being the gateway to Africa. Does DL have extra space at T3 JFK for all these new 757 flights? (I mean they must if they're launching them).

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 192): Even though this is a massive expansion, there are indications that it's not over yet and the cities that seem to be missing from the announcement such as MSP and LAX are cities where DL is negotiating with local authorities for changes in its usage/terminal agreements.

Want to fill us in?
I know they have a few LA routes on the table but no talk about new MSP flights
Also they aren't really talking to much about where to move into LAX but how to sell off the stake in T2.  

Also a little OT but
No CVG TATL flights will change or be moved to DTW (so no moving CVG-FCO over to DTW) inless you know something that Glenn doesn't  

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 194): I'm confused; the bilateral didn't say anything about 5th freedom rights before (they were granted to VN and UA on a case by case basis). What, if anything, does it say now?

The ASA between US-Vietnam states the following:

Airlines designated by the United States in accordance with Paragraph A-1 may not serve points in France or the Republic of Korea as either intermediate or beyond points, and may not carry local ("fifth-freedom") traffic between Vietnam and Taiwan or Tokyo Japan.

Notwithstanding the foregoing, carriers of each Party may carry local traffic between points in territory of the other Party and points in any third countries, either as transit or as on-line connecting traffic via an intermediate or beyond point that is not excluded.

This is a reason why United chose to serve Vietnam over HKG in 2004, not only a shorter flight, but a market that has large local demand to/from Vietnam.

Delta's NRT-SGN will be 100% reliant on US, feed with no opportunity to help fill the flights up localy.

Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 201): Well I guess the DTW-PVG will be operated by a 777 considering that ATL - NRT is being operated by the 744 taken off of DTW-KIX. Although, I'm not quite sure.

The 744 will the 2nd daily flight
DL will have one 77E(opped by Delta) and one 744 (opped by NWA) NW still have some flex in the 744 fleet though. I still think PVG will be moved to a 777 though.

Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 201): Does DL have extra space at T3 JFK for all these new 757 flights? (I mean they must if they're launching them).

Not really
rolmao

Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 201): Probably most of the expansion as of now is from DL hubs because DL knows their hubs better than the former DTW hubs. They probably need more time to evaluate what opportunities the NW hubs have. (Am I being to naive?)

I think that could be very true. Though I'm sure they will have help from the ex NW people before they leave.

Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 201): What about the DTW-FCO flight? Is that not happening at all?

CVG-FCO is still showing for next summer.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 203): The ASA between US-Vietnam states the following:

Do you happen to have a link for ASAs involving the US. I've never succeeded in finding them but they must be accessible somewhere. I've found them in various government regulatory agency sites for many other countries. Thanks.

Looks like a lot of 757s going over the pond next year. I wonder how many will be NW birds and how many will be DL birds.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 205): Do you happen to have a link for ASAs involving the US. I've never succeeded in finding them but they must be accessible somewhere. I've found them in various government regulatory agency sites for many other countries. Thanks.

Sorry, I'm not sure where they are located online, I have a file containining all the individual agreements.
Funny some date back the 1950-60s and the US technically still has ASA with countries like Cuba and Iran as neither party served notice of cancellation to the other!