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Topic: UK Access To Tokyo Haneda
Username: Humberside
Posted 2008-11-13 11:24:57 and read 3149 times.

The UK has won access to Tohyo Haneda from October 2010. I UK and 1 Japanese airline can fly between Haneda and the UK every day, with slots available between 2200 and 0700. This is very similar to the recent France-Japan deal

http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/200...lateral-uk-wins-access-rights.html

BA must be the favourite for the HND rights, but I suspect VS will be interested - and as a wildcard bmi. Almost certainly JL or NH on the Japanese side

Topic: RE: UK Access To Tokyo Haneda
Username: Kaitak
Posted 2008-11-13 12:03:17 and read 3076 times.

Good news; although the times are very restrictive, I think that the more countries that do these bilaterals, the greater is the likelihood that the Japanese authorities will bend and allow more civilised schedules. Obviously they want to protect NRT, but at the end of the day, business travellers will want the closest option.

I can see overnight flights from HND to LHR being very popular, but the difficulty will be the LHR-HND sector, particularly when you consider LHR's own curfew.

Based on Winter timings:

LHR-HND (0930-0700)

HND-LHR (0200-0545)

As with the French agreement, the Japanese carriers seem to benefit more; the above would work very well for JL/NH, but it would require a UK carrier to have an aircraft on the ground all day.

Topic: RE: UK Access To Tokyo Haneda
Username: Humberside
Posted 2008-11-13 13:43:34 and read 2982 times.



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 1):
As with the French agreement, the Japanese carriers seem to benefit more; the above would work very well for JL/NH,

The main issue for Japanese carriers with the times you posted would be slots at Heathrow since its morning rush hour there. I dont know what time slots JL/NH currently have - maybe they could transfer a NRT flight to Haneda?

Topic: RE: UK Access To Tokyo Haneda
Username: Hotelmode
Posted 2008-11-13 13:57:35 and read 2964 times.

Is Haneda open overnight? It occurs to me they might be UTC timings which would be 0500-1600 local, which fits with the terminal opening time on wikipedia.

There currently appear to be virtually no overnight flights and as these flights come with the 4th runway daytime slots would make more sense.

Topic: RE: UK Access To Tokyo Haneda
Username: Carpethead
Posted 2008-11-13 19:13:42 and read 2808 times.



Quoting Hotelmode (Reply 3):
Is Haneda open overnight?

Currently, no because there are no flights after around 2100. However, it can be open 24 hours due to flight paths being over water.

I am sure any Japanese airline that is awarded the HND-LHR route can negotiate with one of their fellow alliance partners on a LHR morning slot exchange deal.

Topic: RE: UK Access To Tokyo Haneda
Username: Glom
Posted 2008-11-13 21:07:08 and read 2733 times.

So this is one of those quaint bilateral agreements, is it, where the governments decide which airline get to do the route?

Then I would expect the UK and Japanese to allow one carrier from Star Alliance and one carrier from One World. In other words, it'll either be BA and NH or VS/BD and JL.

BTW, have you guys had your election yet? It was all the talk in the papers when I was over there in September.

Topic: RE: UK Access To Tokyo Haneda
Username: Carpethead
Posted 2008-11-14 00:22:48 and read 2637 times.



Quoting Glom (Reply 5):
BTW, have you guys had your election yet? It was all the talk in the papers when I was over there in September.

Not yet. Still TBA.

Is BD going to get more than three A332s? Otherwise, you can count BD out.

Topic: RE: UK Access To Tokyo Haneda
Username: Humberside
Posted 2008-11-14 11:14:25 and read 2381 times.

Quoting Glom (Reply 5):
Then I would expect the UK and Japanese to allow one carrier from Star Alliance and one carrier from One World. In other words, it'll either be BA and NH or VS/BD and JL.

Would the UK and Japanese governments co-ordinate in that way?

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 6):
Is BD going to get more than three A332s? Otherwise, you can count BD out.

It will probably get more long haul aircraft, but no definite announcement. IMO, bmi are very much a wildcard. BA are the leading contender with a long history of Japan service plus their LHR hub. VS could have a good case though as an established long haul carrier on key O&D routes. Any bmi case would have to be based on them trying to build a global network at LHR, and therefore allowing them Tokyo access to help them do this. But it would be a big gamble for bmi, even with LH behind them. And I dont recall any statements from LH about global ambitions

[Edited 2008-11-14 11:20:46]

Topic: RE: UK Access To Tokyo Haneda
Username: Misbeehavin
Posted 2008-11-14 12:04:16 and read 2328 times.

We have a total of 4 flights operating between Japan and the UK today. And all of them fly NRT to LHR. That's it! So is the opening up of HND supposed to conjure up new passengers who would not have otherwise flown between Britain and Japan?

Topic: RE: UK Access To Tokyo Haneda
Username: Hotelmode
Posted 2008-11-14 13:14:01 and read 2281 times.



Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 8):
We have a total of 4 flights operating between Japan and the UK today. And all of them fly NRT to LHR. That's it! So is the opening up of HND supposed to conjure up new passengers who would not have otherwise flown between Britain and Japan?

No but domestic connections at NRT are very limited compared to Haneda, which is also much closer to downtown. For BA it would provide an attractive link with another oneworld partner.

Topic: RE: UK Access To Tokyo Haneda
Username: Thestooges
Posted 2008-11-14 13:59:33 and read 2231 times.

Well as far as I can see there are actually 5 flights a day between LHR and NRT,

2 BA 747-400's
1 VS A340-600
1 JL 777-300
1 NH 777-?00

. . . as well as one JL flight between LHR and KIX on a JL 777-?00.

So that makes 6 flights a day between the UK and Japan and not 4.

. . . which is still however pretty pathetic for two of the most important and wealthiest countries to have as the only direct link between them, especially seeing that London and Tokyo along with New York, are the top financial centres in the world.

For example LHR-HKG is much, much more crowded with

3 CX 747-400's and 1 A340-300
3 BA 747-400's
2 VS A-340-600's
1 QF 747-400
1 NZ 747-400

Now Hong Kong was of course a former British colony and many of these flights are filled with Kangaroo Route passengers travelling on to Oz and NZ, but 11 flights between LHR-HKG compared to 5 flights LHR-NRT seems a bit much especially considering that the population of the Tokyo-Yokohama area is 33 million and Hong Kong is only 7 million.

Topic: RE: UK Access To Tokyo Haneda
Username: HeeBeeGB
Posted 2008-11-14 14:07:35 and read 2218 times.

Sorry for the silly question but why is HND access restricted? What is the thinking behind protecting NRT?

Topic: RE: UK Access To Tokyo Haneda
Username: Hotelmode
Posted 2008-11-14 14:11:31 and read 2214 times.

BA is only essentially 1 per day for the foreseeable future.

[Edited 2008-11-14 14:12:02]

Topic: RE: UK Access To Tokyo Haneda
Username: Hotelmode
Posted 2008-11-14 14:18:11 and read 2197 times.



Quoting Thestooges (Reply 10):
but 11 flights between LHR-HKG compared to 5 flights LHR-NRT seems a bit much especially considering that the population of the Tokyo-Yokohama area is 33 million and Hong Kong is only 7 million.

Large numbers of British companies with large offices in HKG and vice versa. Plus and probably more significantly a large amount of UK companies with factories/contractors in SE China/Taiwan/Phillipines etc.Huge expat community in HKG compared to Japan as a result. Also much more tourism from UK-HKG/SE Asia than Japan.

Topic: RE: UK Access To Tokyo Haneda
Username: Glom
Posted 2008-11-14 18:49:19 and read 2093 times.



Quoting Thestooges (Reply 10):
Now Hong Kong was of course a former British colony and many of these flights are filled with Kangaroo Route passengers travelling on to Oz and NZ, but 11 flights between LHR-HKG compared to 5 flights LHR-NRT seems a bit much especially considering that the population of the Tokyo-Yokohama area is 33 million and Hong Kong is only 7 million.

Both are lovely.

Topic: RE: UK Access To Tokyo Haneda
Username: EXAAUADL
Posted 2008-11-15 04:25:06 and read 1975 times.



Quoting Humberside (Thread starter):
The UK has won access to Tohyo Haneda from October 2010. I UK and 1 Japanese airline can fly between Haneda and the UK every day, with slots available between 2200 and 0700.

These timings stink. You think BA or VS will leave a plane sitting in HND for 15 hours??? The HND-LHR flights would have to be millions annually more profitable than NRT-LHR to make sense.

Topic: RE: UK Access To Tokyo Haneda
Username: Theginge
Posted 2008-11-15 07:57:57 and read 1852 times.

With BA going down to 1 a day on the NRT route it could be a possibility if the timings work.

If those times are UTC then that is the time that BA's current services arrive and depart NRT.

Topic: RE: UK Access To Tokyo Haneda
Username: JoFMO
Posted 2008-11-15 09:53:52 and read 1773 times.

This agreement looks very much the same than the one posted here some weeks ago in with France.
I wonder why every European country negotiates its own agreement. I guess other countries will soon follow. Shouldn't that be a topic for the EU instead of the national states...?


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