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Topic: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: 797
Posted 2008-12-16 13:36:44 and read 25347 times.

Hello everyone,

I know this might have been posted in the past, but I also know there's a lot of people who haven't seen this thrilling video recorded on the departure and arrival procedures on a flight from LHR to SFO in a VS 744.

I'm willing to bet some money that some of you will freak out as much as I did. I love to see the high level of professionalism these pilots are used to work on. They take aviation to a next level - which is where it belongs.

I hope you all like it, and somehow, learn from it too!

Cheers

Enrique.

------------

DEPARTURE:

PART 1 Clearance: http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=gHmIR1JJXyw

PART 2 Taxi: http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=8UUQr6T4EZ0

PART 3 Takeoff: http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=cnTBw1JPjow&feature=related

ARRIVAL:

PART 1 Descent: http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=2EqXNXWxWdk

PART 2 Landing: http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=pl-TWH93qTY&feature=related

Enjoy!

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: AFGMEL
Posted 2008-12-16 14:18:38 and read 25208 times.

Great Videos. Can anyone tell me if 6000' is the normal transition altitude out of LHR? It's been a while since I flew and it was normally 10,000' from memory.

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: Jamotcx
Posted 2008-12-16 14:29:47 and read 25156 times.



Quoting AFGMEL (Reply 1):
Can anyone tell me if 6000' is the normal transition altitude out of LHR

In the london TMA its 6000ft. Manchester TMA its 5000ft. Outside of controlled airspace its 3000ft.

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: GoBoeing
Posted 2008-12-16 14:31:04 and read 25154 times.

Autopilot on at 1000' and off at 400'?

Boooooring!

Guess he had the video stuff to do as well though. Excused this time, captain.  Smile

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: AFGMEL
Posted 2008-12-16 14:48:20 and read 25091 times.



Quoting Jamotcx (Reply 2):

In the london TMA its 6000ft. Manchester TMA its 5000ft. Outside of controlled airspace its 3000ft

Thanks a lot. I am so out of the zone having not flown (private) for about 7 years. I don't know the regs here anymore.

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: Contrails15
Posted 2008-12-16 16:50:49 and read 24820 times.

Great Video. Haven't seen that one before. Very professional and direct, the way it should be but having worked with pilots, 99.9% of the time its been professional with some fun.

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: B747forever
Posted 2008-12-16 16:58:12 and read 24527 times.

Have seen this before.

But anyhow, thanks for posting it here.

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: ChrisNH
Posted 2008-12-16 17:50:38 and read 24044 times.

I thought that was an awesome series of videos! I too was very impressed with the professionalism of the crew, and I get the sense that the airline endorsed this project (look at all the different camera angles they used!)

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: ANITIX87
Posted 2008-12-16 18:51:30 and read 23934 times.

Great series of videos.

Here are my questions so far:
1) How much more formal is this than usual? Does the crew always review exact procedures for RTO, other failure, and the SID profile?

2) How do they decide when to engage autopilot after take-off?

TIS

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: PWM2TXLHopper
Posted 2008-12-16 19:16:13 and read 23866 times.

Coincidentally, I just watched all of those tonight when I stumbled onto them on Youtube. I agree, they were very good! Very instructional too. One of the best in the cockpit videos I've seen before! Worth checking out for those who like technical operations.

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: Icelandair75W
Posted 2008-12-16 19:56:27 and read 23788 times.

Those videos are from ITVV, a company specializing in filming cockpit procedures etc. similar to World Air Routes. I don't think it should be on youtube..

Good video nonetheless.

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: B777ER
Posted 2008-12-16 20:14:48 and read 23611 times.

The second officer in the video, John Cullom moved to South Africa while on long prolonged paid sick leave from Virgin because of back problems and was involved in a lawsuit against Virgin. While is South Africa he died by drowning near his home at Camps Bay, Cape Town.

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Vi
Username: GoBoeing
Posted 2008-12-16 20:20:00 and read 23559 times.

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 8):
1) How much more formal is this than usual? Does the crew always review exact procedures for RTO, other failure, and the SID profile?

As far as the briefing. When we are at the start of the trip and haven't flown together yet, more things are briefed than any other leg such as how we each might want certain things done. "I've been on vacation the last few weeks, keep an eye on me" or "I'm pretty new to the plane, been on it about a month so I'll be asking you some things as we go along." That type of stuff.

Before each leg the SID is briefed and usually the RTO stuff unless we're doing a lot of legs in a day. If we're flying four or five or six legs in one day, we might just say "aborted takeoff criteria, as previously briefed this morning" and then continue on with the particular engine failure/return to airport plan for that particular departure as that changes leg by leg.

They seem to be a lot more formal than most US air carrier cockpits I've been in.

Part of that could be that they know they are on camera and it will be distributed throughout and also viewed by people at their company who perhaps check and train them. Another part of it could be that it's just more formal outside the USA, more 'robotic' if you will, with cockpit callouts. I have only cockpit jumpseated on a foreign carrier twice (both BA) and it was on par with anything you'd see in the states.

I must reiterate though, that this is not to say pilots in the US are more lax or sloppy in their procedures. Quite the opposite and safety is paramount as it is anywhere including Virgin Atlantic. I am just thinking of some things such as phraseology used when asking for things. Kind of like the difference between US controllers and European ones.

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 8):

2) How do they decide when to engage autopilot after take-off?

It's up to the pilot flying and they consider a few things.

First of all there is a minimum altitude and that depends on the airplane and company procedures. Anywhere from 400 feet to 1000 feet is typical for that.

Most pilots hand-fly past that minimum engagement altitude almost every time (remember, they got into this whole flying thing because they like it!).

Workload is one issue. Is the departure just a simple "fly runway heading, maintain 10,000" or is it a complex SID with noise abatement sensors with some dreary, bumpy weather that day. The latter, coupled with the fact that perhaps it's a very early morning departure after a legal but totally inadequate amount of rest might be a time when one would want to click on the autopilot early on and monitor the situation while it flies. The 'nice day easy departure' example would be a time that most would hand fly a bit more.

I typically ask for the autopilot on between 10,000 and 20,000 on a nice day.

Off sometime around when we are about to intercept the localizer, or much earlier if there is low traffic and we're first in line for a visual approach. It is often easier to just click it all off and fly the thing rather than spend all your energy spinning knobs and figuring out if you've got it setup to do what you want it to do.

If we're shooting an ILS to minimums, I'd leave it coupled on autopilot right now as I only have about 200 hours in the plane I'm flying. Even after more time in it, I still might elect to leave the autopilot on until we break out and see the runway. The time when I like to hand-fly it on an approach in the weather is when I know we'll break out a decent amount above minimums. If we're ten miles out on final and ahead of us someone says they broke out at 500 feet and our minimums are 200 feet, that's an opportunity to hand-fly but still know that you won't be jacking up your workload on short final because you shouldn't need to be looking for the runway anymore as you'll already see it.


I have flown with some guys recently that really scared me as far as proficiency goes. Never hand-flew until 400' on final regardless of weather and left the autothrottles on every single time (perfectly safe and legal on this plane) but once or twice on the trip we'd encounter something that would really be best dealt with by not continuing to use the autopilot and they'd either be reluctant to click it off, or after doing so, be all over the damn place with the airplane because they barely ever fly it most of the time. I strive to not ever let that happen to me!

[Edited 2008-12-16 20:26:31]

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: N174UA
Posted 2008-12-16 20:57:19 and read 23178 times.

How old is this video? I noticed they parked at "stand" 55, which if I recall correctly at SFO, that's at the old int'l. terminal.

One other question...when they retracted the gear, they show them putting the lever to "up" and then "off". What does the change to "off" mean?

Apart from that...these are JUST AMAZING....wow....thank you for sharing!

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: Francoflier
Posted 2008-12-16 21:49:41 and read 22765 times.



Quoting B777ER (Reply 11):
The second officer in the video, John Cullom moved to South Africa while on long prolonged paid sick leave from Virgin because of back problems and was involved in a lawsuit against Virgin. While is South Africa he died by drowning near his home at Camps Bay, Cape Town.

May he RIP.

The First Officer on the video is now a 744 sim instructor here in HK.
I gather that video is pretty 'old' indeed.

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 12):
Most pilots hand-fly past that minimum engagement altitude almost every time (remember, they got into this whole flying thing because they like it!).

This is nice fun, but remember that no one is paid to fly one of these things to have fun. Hand flying while just following an F/D is not really a challenge, and it happens that the A/P will do that better than anyone.

Flying a jumbo is rather different from flying a springy regional jet or single aisle, and due to the nature of the job, pilots usually cannot get the recurrent hands on experience they can in a 6 sectors-a-day kind of ops. You'd fnd that the A/P usually goes on well before 10,000' and goes off while established and config'ed at around 1500' on final.
Manually aproaching while configuring a jumbo with 400 people onboard is never a good time to get yourself current at flying it again after one month of not operating it.

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Vi
Username: GoBoeing
Posted 2008-12-16 23:04:53 and read 22280 times.



Quoting Francoflier (Reply 14):
Flying a jumbo is rather different from flying a springy regional jet or single aisle, and due to the nature of the job, pilots usually cannot get the recurrent hands on experience they can in a 6 sectors-a-day kind of ops. You'd fnd that the A/P usually goes on well before 10,000' and goes off while established and config'ed at around 1500' on final.

While I know what you mean, I have found the last sentence to not necessarily be true at all. In fact the last few times I've jumpseated on 747s I can recall the A/P not being on until 20,000'+ coming out of ICN and another flight with the A/P off descending through 10,000'. A good friend of mine who is captain on the 777 still routinely flies it up to cruise manually and into JFK always manually before the configuring starts if the weather is decent, for reasons I mentioned in my other post about keeping skills alive.

Quoting Francoflier (Reply 14):
Manually aproaching while configuring a jumbo with 400 people onboard is never a good time to get yourself current at flying it again after one month of not operating it.

I completely agree about coming back from time off and using more automation while getting back into the swing of things.

I do not think that hand-flying up to 10,000 feet is 'getting yourself current' again but I know what you mean.

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Vi
Username: Flyboy2001
Posted 2008-12-17 00:00:23 and read 21928 times.



Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 12):

Great informative stuff, thanks very much for posting! It's really interesting to hear about these kinds of cockpit details.

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: Alangirvan
Posted 2008-12-17 00:38:18 and read 21679 times.

I got this video in year 2000, if you want to date it.

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: 797
Posted 2008-12-17 00:38:08 and read 21667 times.



Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 12):
Another part of it could be that it's just more formal outside the USA, more 'robotic' if you will, with cockpit callouts.

Thanks indeed for such a broad explanation on the topic. I'm currently a student pilot and I can say that these callouts (despite being annoying for a student and most of the times extremely repetitive, tedious and what not) are mandatory every time I get in the plane. I often forget to do them and for the Private Pilot course, you may get a failed checkride for not doing them.

After watching this video I pretty much feel like copying these pilots all the time. They gave me a feeling of safety that I had never experienced before. I now see things quite differently, now I understand better why is that my school emphasizes so strongly on cockpit communications and on the constant briefing between the pilots.

If it's robotic, who cares? It's all about doing things right and this is for sure a nice way to do it.

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: BCAL
Posted 2008-12-17 01:32:41 and read 21320 times.



Quoting B777ER (Reply 11):
The second officer in the video, John Cullom moved to South Africa while on long prolonged paid sick leave from Virgin because of back problems and was involved in a lawsuit against Virgin. While is South Africa he died by drowning near his home at Camps Bay, Cape Town.

Not quite correct. His flying career was cut short after a car crash left him disfigured and unable to fly. VS offered him a list of alternative jobs, including a position at a beauty spa at LHR but he sued for constructive dismissal and said

Quote:
"When my health was good, Virgin Atlantic treated me well. But that all changed once I found it difficult to fly. It was insensitive and shows that I was not taken seriously at all, to say the least, when they offered me a job in a beauty spa at Heathrow,"

VS denied the allegations and said they would defend the claim

Source

John Cullom moved to South Africa while on (very) prolonged paid sick leave from Virgin because of 'back problems', and drowned near his home at Camps Bay, Cape Town about 22 months ago. It is not known what happened, but his friends in South Africa believed he must have gone onto some rocks at night to watch one of the unusually powerful storms they were having at the time and been swept into the sea.

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: CPH-R
Posted 2008-12-17 03:47:13 and read 20538 times.

As mentioned further up, this is taken from a commercial DVD by ITVV, so it shouldn't really be on YouTube.

Instead I can only recommend that people go through their catalogue at www.itvv.com and take a look at some of their DVD's. Most of them are excellent quality, though they may be a bit dated (ITVV have said that they're trying to get more videos made, but post-9/11 cockpit security makes it almost impossible).

I can personally recommend the Concorde double-disc (thorough walkthrough of the external systems & a return trip LHR-JFK), the A330-200 video, B767-300 video, Fokker 100 video & the B747-200 video. And, of course, the VS B747-400 video.

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: Planesailing
Posted 2008-12-17 04:08:05 and read 20389 times.

My cousin is the Captain, Alan Carter!

According to his mum, he now works for an Italian airline who is owned by Fiat (not sure if this is right), she couldnt remember the name of it when she spoke to us last.

He moved to Korean Air after leaving Virgin Atlantic and then came back to the UK to work with Thomsonfly. I believe he also does some sim work at LHR.

The video as was previously said was filmed in 2000.

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: Cumulus
Posted 2008-12-17 05:04:47 and read 19924 times.

That DVD is part of a series which can be bought at:-

www.itvv.co.uk

They do some very good stuff on all sorts of aircraft and airliners.

(Or of course www.mininova.org (ahem!)).

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: Triple7man
Posted 2008-12-17 05:28:25 and read 19717 times.

The video is put out by ITVV and is an excellent video from the beginning in operations where Captain Carter explains what is involved in the planning of the flights, through the whole flight from the pilots doing their preflight work until parked at the gate in SFO. ITVV videos are excellent and after watching one you feel like you can fly the plane yourself. Security does make it more difficult to get in the cockpit after 11 September, but while ITVV videos might be dated they are excellent. And Just Planes puts out World Air Routes videos, which while not as technical cover many different airlines and airplanes all over the world. I think they are worth the money, and I would rather have the DVD or video to enjoy in excellent quality.

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: ChrisNH
Posted 2008-12-17 05:32:06 and read 19687 times.

Also, there are SIX videos in this set...four 'departure' and two 'landing.' You'll see them all when you start watching #1.

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: Francoflier
Posted 2008-12-17 05:47:58 and read 19551 times.



Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 15):
I do not think that hand-flying up to 10,000 feet is 'getting yourself current' again but I know what you mean.

No it's not, and, quite frankly, I find flying up to 10,000' or more quite boring...

I guess that hand flying becomes more of a menial task when flying heavy metal around. The real job has become managing the automation.

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: Vs030
Posted 2008-12-17 10:07:15 and read 17038 times.

I have this DVD. It's great stuff!

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: Spacecadet
Posted 2008-12-17 11:24:12 and read 16196 times.

Seems like quite a slow climb - about 6 minutes in and the altimeter shows 4,300 feet? Is that normal out of LHR? I hear him at one point ask to reduce the climb rate. I'm used to flying out of JFK where even in a fully loaded 747 you're up to cruising altitude in about 15 minutes, probably due to noise abatement.

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: Cumulus
Posted 2008-12-17 11:31:02 and read 16087 times.



Quoting Triple7man (Reply 23):
and I would rather have the DVD or video to enjoy in excellent quality.

Funnily enough there are no cockpit films in Mininova, just searched.....

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: Freedom4all
Posted 2008-12-17 13:15:44 and read 14861 times.

that was very cool, i think it gives a good perspective on what it takes to fly a jet liner, and being that the 744 is my favorite airliner that was extra special to watch. i think i would have keep my hands on the controls a little longer that the captain did, not much fun letting the autopilot take over a 1,000 feet  Yeah sure

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 12):
I typically ask for the autopilot on between 10,000 and 20,000 on a nice day.

what type of aircraft do you fly?

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: GoBoeing
Posted 2008-12-17 13:48:22 and read 14560 times.



Quoting Freedom4all (Reply 29):
what type of aircraft do you fly?

EMB-170.

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: Vir744
Posted 2008-12-18 11:44:33 and read 13788 times.

The reduction in climb was due to the TCAS Traffic Alert. It was to avoid any conflict that would have resulted in a Resolution Advisory.

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: EGCC777LR
Posted 2008-12-18 12:33:23 and read 13680 times.



Quoting N174UA (Reply 13):
One other question...when they retracted the gear, they show them putting the lever to "up" and then "off". What does the change to "off" mean?

Landing Gear is raised with hydraulic pressure, after the gear is "Up & Locked" the lever is moved to the "Off" position to relieve this pressure from the system.

 wave 

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: 413X3
Posted 2008-12-18 13:24:14 and read 13573 times.



Quoting Cumulus (Reply 22):
(Or of course www.mininova.org (ahem!)).

That is just ridiculous. There are not big sales for this type of documentaries/filming, the lease people can do is BUY it to support it

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: Bucky707
Posted 2008-12-18 16:28:06 and read 13401 times.



Quoting Planesailing (Reply 21):
My cousin is the Captain, Alan Carter!

According to his mum, he now works for an Italian airline who is owned by Fiat (not sure if this is right), she couldnt remember the name of it when she spoke to us last.

why did he leave Virgin?

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: B777ER
Posted 2008-12-18 19:00:28 and read 13256 times.



Quoting BCAL (Reply 19):
John Cullom moved to South Africa while on (very) prolonged paid sick leave from Virgin because of 'back problems', and drowned near his home at Camps Bay, Cape Town about 22 months ago. It is not known what happened, but his friends in South Africa believed he must have gone onto some rocks at night to watch one of the unusually powerful storms they were having at the time and been swept into the sea



Quoting BCAL (Reply 19):
Not quite correct.



Quoting BCAL (Reply 19):
he sued

Hello...thats what I SAID. And anyone can copy and paste off the pprune forum.

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: Planesailing
Posted 2008-12-19 10:08:15 and read 12926 times.



Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 34):
why did he leave Virgin?

I believe that it was because he had been with Virgin for many years and fancied a change to flying across the Atlantic all the time.

He went to Korean where the 744 flew more varied routes. He used the Heathrow rotation to get home.

From there he went to Thomson who of course have a great variation in routes that they serve. I believe he was qualified on to the 757 (I think he had a dual qualification and flew two types).

Not sure where he is now, as I said his Mum didnt remember the name of the airline when we last heard from her. It is based in Italy by all accounts.

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: 413X3
Posted 2008-12-19 11:47:45 and read 12811 times.

could be fly italy, they have 757s

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: TN486
Posted 2008-12-19 22:55:02 and read 12456 times.



Quoting 797 (Thread starter):
know this might have been posted in the past, but I also know there's a lot of people who haven't seen this thrilling video recorded

From my point of view, I was absolutely enthralled. Have spent some time in the jump seat of a QF707 Singapore to Sydney Nov 71, TAA 727 Melbourne to Perth early 85 and an Ansett 767 Sydney to Hamilton Island Jan 96 but it was always whilst in cruise, Sone of the terms I understood when watching these videos, however some I will need to catch up on, like PFD (? Flight Director??) and MCP(??). Again thanks for sharing, some good stuff.

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: CPH-R
Posted 2008-12-20 03:17:07 and read 12344 times.



Quoting TN486 (Reply 38):
PFD (? Flight Director??)

Primary Flight Display. Basically the screen with the artificial horizon, speedtape, vertical speed indicator, heading indicator and flight mode announciator (which shows what mode the airplane is flown in & what mode is currently armed).

Quoting TN486 (Reply 38):
MCP(??)

Mode Control Panel aka the autopilot controls

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: TN486
Posted 2008-12-20 04:29:48 and read 12280 times.



Quoting CPH-R" class=quote target=_blank>CPH-R (Reply 39):
Primary Flight Display. Basically the screen with the artificial horizon, speedtape, vertical speed indicator, heading indicator and flight mode announciator (which shows what mode the airplane is flown in & what mode is currently armed).

Quoting TN486 (Reply 38):
MCP(??)

Mode Control Panel aka the autopilot controls

CPH-R, thank you, and if you celebrate christmas, have a good one, I appreciate your assistance  Smile

Topic: RE: Footage From The Cockpit: Virgin 744 (Great Video)
Username: CPH-R
Posted 2008-12-20 04:51:05 and read 12263 times.



Quoting TN486 (Reply 40):
CPH-R, thank you, and if you celebrate christmas, have a good one, I appreciate your assistance

You're welcome! And have a good one yourself  wave 


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