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Topic: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: 28L28L
Posted 2008-12-18 11:09:44 and read 4730 times.

Can anyone offer any information on the approximate date that Qantas ended service from Los Angeles to Papeete? I hadn't realized that it had ended so long ago.
Cheers.

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: Timz
Posted 2008-12-18 11:23:59 and read 4715 times.

What year do we check first? Offhand I have no idea when QF ever flew LAX-PPT.

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: 28L28L
Posted 2008-12-18 11:53:15 and read 4679 times.

I believe that the service ended sometime between 1995 and 1997, but I'm not certain. Thanks for any help.

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: Leskova
Posted 2008-12-18 12:31:54 and read 4629 times.



Quoting Timz (Reply 1):
Offhand I have no idea when QF ever flew LAX-PPT.

They did back in 1983 when my whole family was on board of that flight...  Smile ... we spent a couple of days in Tahiti, then continued onwards to Sydney.

Quoting 28L28L (Reply 2):
I believe that the service ended sometime between 1995 and 1997, but I'm not certain.

I think it was before 1995 - something in my head keeps saying "early 90s", but I couldn't put down a date for that.

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: AerorobNZ
Posted 2008-12-18 13:17:35 and read 4587 times.

I know the SYD-AKL-PPT sector was QF44, and I was going to put 1997 as when it ended.

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: Timz
Posted 2008-12-18 14:08:44 and read 4532 times.

Best I can do: they're still in the 7/95 OAG, not in the 7/99.

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: Airbear
Posted 2008-12-18 14:23:44 and read 4497 times.

This was all in "modern" times, but I think they quit PPT in the late '90s. I remember my brother was put on an Air Pacific QF code-share flt. routing PPT/AKL then on QF metal to SYD. Not sure what year that was tho'.

However... a little history lesson. QF had earlier called at PPT back in the early/mid 1960s, as one stop on their "Fiesta" Route from SYD-LHR, flown with their earliest B707s.

This great way to LHR went SYD/PPT (maybe stopping first at either NAN or AKL - some other old farts out in A.net may be able to verify this point), then Acapulco, Bermuda, then to LHR (altho' something tells me this may also have involved a stop in NYC-Idlewild, before LHR. But again, I stand to be corrected).

Cheers, Airbear

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: Airvan00
Posted 2008-12-18 14:34:04 and read 4483 times.



Quoting Airbear (Reply 6):
This great way to LHR went SYD/PPT (maybe stopping first at either NAN or AKL - some other old farts out in A.net may be able to verify this point), then Acapulco, Bermuda, then to LHR (altho' something tells me this may also have involved a stop in NYC-Idlewild, before LHR. But again, I stand to be corrected).

QF580 SYD-NAN-PPT-ACA-MEX-NAS-BDA-LHR
and QF530 SYD-NAN-HNL-SFO-NYC Idewild-LHR both great flight and I had the pleasure of travelling F  Big grin

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: Gemuser
Posted 2008-12-18 14:45:46 and read 4466 times.



Quoting Airbear (Reply 6):
"Fiesta" Route from SYD-LHR, flown with their earliest B707s.

AGAIN - The "Fiesta Route" was SYD-NAN-PPT-ACA-MEX-NAS-BDA-LHR.

Gemuser

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: DavidByrne
Posted 2008-12-18 15:04:56 and read 4447 times.

For a while there was a second weekly flight terminating in MEX, and operating through AKL:

SYD-AKL-PPT-ACA-MEX

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: Gemuser
Posted 2008-12-18 16:33:17 and read 4406 times.



Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 9):
For a while there was a second weekly flight terminating in MEX, and operating through AKL:

SYD-AKL-PPT-ACA-MEX

Never, ever heard that one. You got a timetable or some other doco, because at the time I'm pretty sure QF was not allowed fifth freedoms from NZ, to protect TEAL which was jointly owned.


gemuser

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: DavidByrne
Posted 2008-12-18 19:06:34 and read 4327 times.



Quoting Gemuser (Reply 10):
Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 9):
For a while there was a second weekly flight terminating in MEX, and operating through AKL:

SYD-AKL-PPT-ACA-MEX

Never, ever heard that one. You got a timetable or some other doco, because at the time I'm pretty sure QF was not allowed fifth freedoms from NZ, to protect TEAL which was jointly owned.

Alas, no, I don't have a timetable. I used to have a collection of QF, TE and NZ timetables from the early and mid-60s, and I stupidly threw them out when I shifted to Europe back in the early 1980s, so I'm now reliant on dredging the recesses of the brain, I'm afraid. A couple of comments, though - and maybe it will also trigger a memory for someone else:

* In the back of my mind I have a recollection that the PPT stop on the second flight was a tech stop only, I assume due to the extreme protectionist stance that the French government took to air rights back in those days. There was a period of several years in the early 1960s during which TE was unable to serve Tahiti at all, due to French government gamesmanship. Service by TE to PPT only recommenced with AKL-PPT-LAX flights in 1967 or thereabouts (it was a little while after the AKL-NAN-HNL-LAX flights which began in November 1965).

* The QF-TEAL issue you raise is a little out of chronological synch, I think. The NZ government bought the Australian share in 1961, but the Fiesta route post-dated that - at least the second flight with the stop in AKL did. Mangere only opened in 1965; prior to that the only jet services were BOAC's Comets. So service via AKL on the Fiesta Route must have been after 1965, or well after the TEAL ownership issues were sorted out.

Another little historical snippet on Pacific services that I dredge from the recesses of my mind:

Not only did BOAC run services twice weekly on AKL-NAN to connect with their and QF's services to the United States (BOAC used to run SYD-NAN-HNL-(LAX or SFO, can't recall) in parallel with QF) - but there was also a period in which TEAL used BOAC Comets in their down time at Auckland to run services on AKL-NOU. [Useless Fact #32761]

And speaking of charters, anyone remember the period in which TEAL (or was it Air NZ?) chartered a weekly (or was it fortnightly?) HS748 from the then Fiji Airways to operate NAN-(PPG or APW, not sure) and onward to Aitutaki? This was before the runway at RAR was constructed. [Useless Fact #32762]

I'll save Useless Fact #32763 for another time!

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: Timz
Posted 2008-12-18 19:29:40 and read 4301 times.

It was 1966-67-- weekly SYD-AKL-PPT-ACA-MEX and back. PPT was tech stop only, on that flight.

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: TDubJFK
Posted 2008-12-18 19:57:03 and read 4269 times.



Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 7):
QF580 SYD-NAN-PPT-ACA-MEX-NAS-BDA-LHR

Holy crap .. you could probably swim from SYD-LHR faster!!

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: Airvan00
Posted 2008-12-18 20:09:33 and read 4257 times.



Quoting TDubJFK (Reply 13):
Holy crap .. you could probably swim from SYD-LHR faster!!

 Big grin LOL Those early 707's didn't have much range. If you think that route is bad your should see some of the pre jet routes SYD-LHR via India. I think i counted 17 stops on one, and hence the name of the kangaroo route-- lots of hops .

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: Gemuser
Posted 2008-12-18 21:35:26 and read 4202 times.



Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 11):
The NZ government bought the Australian share in 1961, but the Fiesta route post-dated that -

OK, that was earlier than I thought, I was thinking 65/66. But I am still sure, although relying on memory, (which can be dangerous), QF did not fly beyond NZ until well into the 70s, which is why an AKL stop seems wrong to me, unless it was for a very short time right at the end of the Fiesta route.

Gemuser

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: AirGabon
Posted 2008-12-19 01:07:18 and read 4131 times.

Is NZ still flying to PPT? I thought they ended their B763' AKL-Rarotonga-Papeete-LAX route but it appears that they still operate flights to PPT..

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: DavidByrne
Posted 2008-12-19 02:03:30 and read 4100 times.



Quoting Gemuser (Reply 15):
OK, that was earlier than I thought, I was thinking 65/66. But I am still sure, although relying on memory, (which can be dangerous), QF did not fly beyond NZ until well into the 70s, which is why an AKL stop seems wrong to me, unless it was for a very short time right at the end of the Fiesta route.



Quoting Timz (Reply 12):
It was 1966-67-- weekly SYD-AKL-PPT-ACA-MEX and back. PPT was tech stop only, on that flight.

My source is my memory, but Timz (Reply 12) offered some corroboration to my recollection, even down to PPT being a tech stop on the flight via AKL, and added a time period, 1966-67. My recollection is also that it didn't operate for a long period. Maybe Timz can provide a source?

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: ZK-NBT
Posted 2008-12-19 02:39:55 and read 4070 times.



Quoting AerorobNZ (Reply 4):
I know the SYD-AKL-PPT sector was QF44, and I was going to put 1997 as when it ended.

Originally I remember this flight as QF103/104 SYD-AKL-PPT then it changed to MEL-AKL-PPT-AKL-SYD as QF43/104 I think it was. Originally twice weekly then a third flight was added probably around 1996/97, flights stopped with QF metal around 2000 I believe. I think they ran 74L's for a time and then 763s. They started using TN and PH around 1999/2000 as a codeshare and still use TN today both AKL-PPT and SYD-PPT which will end sometime soon SYD-PPT that is.

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 16):
Is NZ still flying to PPT? I thought they ended their B763' AKL-Rarotonga-Papeete-LAX route but it appears that they still operate flights to PPT..

They codeshare with TN AKL-PPT-LAX and also still run 2 weekly AKL-PPT flights of their own.

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: TN486
Posted 2008-12-19 03:55:06 and read 4026 times.



Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 7):
QF580 SYD-NAN-PPT-ACA-MEX-NAS-BDA-LHR



Quoting Gemuser (Reply 8):
AGAIN - The "Fiesta Route" was SYD-NAN-PPT-ACA-MEX-NAS-BDA-LHR.

I support the above, more to follow

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 11):
In the back of my mind I have a recollection that the PPT stop on the second flight was a tech stop only

David, the technical call you remember was in fact at NAN, but not for passenger Fiesta route, it was QF952 "cargo V Jet" SYD SFO on the Wed and QF950 "cargo V Jet SYD NYC on the Fri. Interestingly the return QF953/951 was a scheduled stop NAN. Source QF timetable 50th year Dec1 thru Dec 31.

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 10):
Never, ever heard that one. You got a timetable or some other doco, because at the time I'm pretty sure QF was not allowed fifth freedoms from NZ, to protect TEAL which was jointly owned

Gemuser, from all the resources I have, you are quite correct. The history of the Fiesta route is as follows:
"QF introduced its Fiesta Route round the world service in 1964, flying via FIJI and TAHITI to ACAPULCO in MEXICO, then to LONDON via NASSAU and BERMUDA". Source: I still call Australia home (The Qantas story) by MalcolmKnox published 2005, page 41.
The QF580 service dep SYD 0930 Fri 707 V Jet and arrived LHR Sat 1020. The second QF 580 service dep SYD on a Tue 0930 termMEX on arrival at 1305 same day. This second service initiated Dec 1 1970 Source: The QF timetable I mentioned above.
Dec 73 QF timetable shows the above services operating, but by Oct 74 the QF timetable shows both sevices terminating MEX. At no time 64 thru 74 can I find any routing thru NZ for this route.
Interestingly in 74 QF were were routing thru PPT a service to Vancouver QF586 SYD/NAN/PPT/YVR. Source: QF timetable Oct 27 1974
I know the above may be off topic however I felt I was able to assist others in their posts, cheers.

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: TN486
Posted 2008-12-19 05:19:51 and read 3973 times.



Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 11):
BOAC used to run SYD-NAN-HNL-(LAX or SFO, can't recall) in parallel with QF

It was a daily VC10 service BA592 and originated MEL Mon and Sat, then toSYD and onwards NAN-HNL-LAX-NYC-LHR: source QF timetable Dec 70.  Smile

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: Timz
Posted 2008-12-19 10:13:21 and read 3908 times.



Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 17):
Maybe Timz can provide a source?

The 4/66 OAG shows the flight subject to govt approval; no mention of govt approval in the 5/66; it's still in the 11/67, and not in the 1/68.

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: DavidByrne
Posted 2008-12-19 21:25:50 and read 3781 times.



Quoting Timz (Reply 21):
Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 17):
Maybe Timz can provide a source?

The 4/66 OAG shows the flight subject to govt approval; no mention of govt approval in the 5/66; it's still in the 11/67, and not in the 1/68.

Just to clarify, in the context of the discussion, can you confirm that you're referring to my recollected routing, ie SYD-AKL-PPT(tech)-ACA-MEX?.

If that's the case, then it appears that the routing was via AKL between 4/66 and 11/67, but not much longer.

It's not a matter of "told you so" for me, but more an affirmation of a very long-held memory!

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: 747400sp
Posted 2008-12-20 11:20:03 and read 3654 times.

QF was still doing the service in 1996, I remember that they used 74L and 743 on the route.

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: Timz
Posted 2008-12-20 14:05:37 and read 3612 times.



Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 22):
can you confirm that you're referring to my recollected routing, ie SYD-AKL-PPT(tech)-ACA-MEX?.

Consider it confirmed. QF 582/583.

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: MayaviaERJ190
Posted 2008-12-20 17:39:12 and read 3543 times.

It might be Australian Alice meeting Mexican Jaime (pronounced High-Meh) and turning into German Alzheimer, but thanks to you all, specially to Gemuser, my blurry memory is improving even though it still places a QF 747 in ACA, may I ask, was the Fiesta Route via NAN or AKL ever flown with anything other than a 707 V-jet?
Or am I just misplacing a QF 747 in ACA in my memory?
Thanks in advance and G'day Sunday as it is still Saturday up above in MEX.

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: Gemuser
Posted 2008-12-20 23:56:11 and read 3524 times.



Quoting MayaviaERJ190 (Reply 25):
was the Fiesta Route via NAN or AKL ever flown with anything other than a 707 V-jet?

On a regular basis, no. It was always a B707. But that not to say a QF B747 has never visited ACA, they have been used on charters all over the place over the years, could even been on a proving flight for the B747.

Gemuser

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: TN486
Posted 2008-12-21 02:01:25 and read 3478 times.



Quoting Timz (Reply 24):
Consider it confirmed. QF 582/583

Timz, thank you for that clarification, we learn something new everyday. When going through all my old QF timetables I am missing those for 66/67 due to my op service with the armed forces in SEASIA. If you celebrate christmas, enjoy, and have a safe new year.

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: DavidByrne
Posted 2008-12-21 02:13:49 and read 3471 times.

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 26):
On a regular basis, no. It was always a B707. But that not to say a QF B747 has never visited ACA, they have been used on charters all over the place over the years, could even been on a proving flight for the B747.

Another interesting question about the Fiesta route: the stop in ACA. Of course ACA is a well-known tourist mecca, but I'd have thought that in the '60s the possibility that useful loads might be picked up in or out of ACA bound for PPT, NAN, AKL or SYD would have been negligible. I'm assuming that the ACA stop was because MEX was just too "hot and high" for a useful load to be taken all the way to PPT? Come to think of it, how many pax would have joined or left the flight in the Bahamas or Bermuda, either? Perhaps pax bound for LHR . . .

Mind you, back in the V-Jet days QF had a host of weird and wonderful destinations at various times - Tehran, Damascus, Beirut, even Malta for a while, I think. My Dad, now in his mid-80s, went on a long-haul flight to Europe most years, and would always stop EVERYWHERE en route for a few days. Can't do that anymore! He never took the Fiesta route, alas.

[Edited 2008-12-21 02:14:47]

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: Gemuser
Posted 2008-12-21 03:30:47 and read 3427 times.



Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 28):
I'm assuming that the ACA stop was because MEX was just too "hot and high" for a useful load to be taken all the way to PPT?

Yes, it was not required eastbound and if MEX had been at sea level would not have been required at all. For what ever reason QF decided to serve ACA in both directions.

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 28):
Come to think of it, how many pax would have joined or left the flight in the Bahamas or Bermuda, either? Perhaps pax bound for LHR . .

My understanding not a lot! But remember at the time QF did not serve LAX, it was restricted to SFO/NYC, there was no easy way to central/south America from Oz, there were no trans South Pacific services at all until LA started IPC-PPT and it didn't connect very well anyway and importantly QF was government owned and had to keep the government happy.

Gemuser

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2008-12-21 04:02:13 and read 3405 times.



Quoting Airbear (Reply 6):
However... a little history lesson. QF had earlier called at PPT back in the early/mid 1960s, as one stop on their "Fiesta" Route from SYD-LHR, flown with their earliest B707s.

QF also operated to YVR via PPT with the 707-338C for a while in the 1970s. It's the only time there has ever been nonstop YVR-PPT service. At the time it was the longest nonstop flight from YVR, slightly further than YVR-AMS which was 2nd longest. QF later dropped that route and reverted to serving YVR as a tag-on from SFO using 747-200s once a week as they had done for many years prior to the PPT routing.

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: DavidByrne
Posted 2008-12-21 05:08:57 and read 3365 times.



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 30):
QF also operated to YVR via PPT with the 707-338C for a while in the 1970s. It's the only time there has ever been nonstop YVR-PPT service.

Didn't one of the Canadian holiday-market companies run semi-scheduled services on the route and onward to NZ at one point? Or is my memory failing me this time? Perhaps it was RAR? Anyone?

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: SunriseValley
Posted 2008-12-21 11:45:26 and read 3291 times.

For what it is worth to this thread, I flew QF SYD-PPT- LAX in June of 1993 on a 747-200.

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2008-12-21 16:18:25 and read 3214 times.



Quoting TN486 (Reply 19):
Gemuser, from all the resources I have, you are quite correct. The history of the Fiesta route is as follows:
"QF introduced its Fiesta Route round the world service in 1964, flying via FIJI and TAHITI to ACAPULCO in MEXICO, then to LONDON via NASSAU and BERMUDA". Source: I still call Australia home (The Qantas story) by MalcolmKnox published 2005, page 41.

The source isn't very complete. It overlooks the stop in Mexico City.

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 31):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 30):
QF also operated to YVR via PPT with the 707-338C for a while in the 1970s. It's the only time there has ever been nonstop YVR-PPT service.

Didn't one of the Canadian holiday-market companies run semi-scheduled services on the route and onward to NZ at one point? Or is my memory failing me this time? Perhaps it was RAR? Anyone?

The only Canadian carrier other than CP Air, Canadian Airlines and AC that I can recall serving the South Pacific was leisure carrier Canada 3000 which operated scheduled services about twice a week YVR-HNL-NAN-SYD for a couple of years prior to their collapse in 2001. I think some flights may also have served BNE or AKL. That service initially used the 757-200, and later the A330-200. I can't recall Canada 3000 serving PPT.


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Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: TN486
Posted 2008-12-21 16:27:56 and read 3202 times.



Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 32):
For what it is worth to this thread, I flew QF SYD-PPT- LAX in June of 1993 on a 747-200

I believe you would have flown on QF103, which on some occassions was a 74L  Smile It would have been fun. In Oct 95 the service was SYD/AKL/PPT/LAX

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: Fly2YYZ
Posted 2008-12-21 16:29:32 and read 3196 times.



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 33):
The only Canadian carrier other than CP Air, Canadian Airlines and AC that I can recall serving the South Pacific was leisure carrier Canada 3000 which operated scheduled services about twice a week YVR-HNL-NAN-SYD for a couple of years prior to their collapse in 2001. I think some flights may also have served BNE or AKL. That service initially used the 757-200, and later the A330-200. I can't recall Canada 3000 serving PPT.

It was in 98 that C3 started a route that operated as YYZ-YVR-HNL-RAR-AKL, but I don't recall PPT was ever served.

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: DavidByrne
Posted 2008-12-21 16:33:09 and read 3184 times.



Quoting Fly2YYZ (Reply 35):
It was in 98 that C3 started a route that operated as YYZ-YVR-HNL-RAR-AKL, but I don't recall PPT was ever served.

I think that this is correct - after I posted I became surer that the stop I was recalling was RAR, not PPT.

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: SunriseValley
Posted 2008-12-21 17:29:35 and read 3145 times.



Quoting TN486 (Reply 34):
I believe you would have flown on QF103, which on some occassions was a 74L Smile It would have been fun.

On that particular day there was a large girl's school contingent which added a lot of fun to the in cabin experience

Topic: RE: QF History At PPT (question)
Username: TN486
Posted 2008-12-21 21:58:12 and read 3048 times.



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 33):
The source isn't very complete. It overlooks the stop in Mexico City

error on my part, MEXICO should have read MEXICO City  Sad


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