The previous thread disappeared so I'll start the next one.

Here in Manchester, it's been a real glum year. Way more losses than gains and nothing optimistic to look forward to. So out of 365 dismal days, it was so refreshing to see one of them turn out nice. And that day was yesterday, when a United Airlines 747-400 dropped in after a charter from Des Moines, Iowa. The plane was on the ground for a little less than two hours before departing for Chicago. I don't think the Jumbo used more than 2,000-3,000 feet of runway to get airborne; it took off empty and had a 30-knot headwind to play with.

UA 747-400 at MHT, November 22, 2008

Hey, on January 20th Obama becomes president! Then everything will be A-OK!  

Seriously, though, we'll have to wait and see what he does. I know there some conservatives here and I don't want this to become a political discussion. But I have confidence in him anyway.

Now, about New England: everything here is relatively stagnant. Ryanair made another of their bogus claims, the 787 is still delayed meaning no flights to Asia for a few years, the intermodal station at PVD is still under construction, and the DL/NW merger is going to affect all airports, especially BOS where NW will move to Terminal A.

I'm not surprised that DL dropped CVG service from MHT and PWM. CVG is most likely going to be reduced to a spoke or at least a focus city. DTW may gain a flight or two from those cities though.

I am sure we all can agree that when there is nothing to really talk about it sucks. Sometimes I go months without any new news here on a.net that captures my interest, but I'm sure that things are going to change at our aiports in the next few months.

I don't know if this is 'news' but the Boston Bruins appear to be using Air Canada A320s for charters to and from Hanscom. Did they use Air Canada in years past? I can't recall. But if you keep your eye on BED you will often see some airliner-type aircraft doing sports charters...Bruins, Celtics, and Boston College come immediately to mind.

Nope, the AC thing is new for this year. AC is starting to get a lot of sports teams with their charter service lately.

I thought the Bruins used FL. Either them or the Celtics use them. One (if not both) used to use WN but the last time I went to a Bruins game the WN signs were replaced with FL ones. I wonder why they would use AC. BED is a good airport for charters. B6 has mentioned using BOS for charter ops recently and I wonder if they will sign a deal with any of the teams here.

Let's also give a hat-tip to Worcester, which commenced new nonstop service to Orlando aboard Direct Air (Virgin America) A320s.

An article, with pictures:

http://www.telegram.com/article/20081123/NEWS/811230404/0/FRONTPAGE

Just thinking for a second here. What about the DL/NW ops in both PVD and MHT. NW uses Gate 11 I believe in PVD. Gate 12 right next door is the gate AA is about to abandon. Does DL/NW take over that gate, and keep operations on that half of the airport combined? That would make most sense, since that half is pretty much DL/NW on one side, and WN on the other side.

MHT is a bit trickier. DL only uses Gate 7 in MHT, and NW uses Gates 3 and 4. One thing that would make the most sense might be for NW and UA to do a gate swap, giving NW 5 and 6, keeping the combined carrier with 5-7. For UA this has the added benefit of putting them next to CO as their Star Partner.

The other posibility would be for CO to move to 7, and for DL to move into 1 and 2, which keeps all the Star Airlines togther. If CO needs another gate, they can shift US down one since 10 is currently unused. This puts Sky Team at the South end, Star Alliance in the northern half of the east side, and of course keeps WN on the Northern half.

DL has Gates 16 18 and 22 at PVD while NW has 11, DL can easily absorb NW's operations, leaving gates 11, 12, and 14 all open for use for the eventual FL and B6.

NW can easily be absorbed into DL's 8 position ticket counter as well.

Just worth mentioning, Sunday night I had a dream where I was outside UMASS Boston with some friends. and an A380 came overhead, belonging to ANA. In my dream, the A380 was almost as big as the school! Maybe it's prophetic and we'll see ANA (Al Nippon Airways) and/or an A380 at BOS soon (not an ANA A380 but an A380 and a 787 belonging to ANA). It may have to be a diversion, but I would love to see it.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 8): Just worth mentioning, Sunday night I had a dream where I was outside UMASS Boston with some friends. and an A380 came overhead, belonging to ANA. In my dream, the A380 was almost as big as the school! Maybe it's prophetic and we'll see ANA (Al Nippon Airways) and/or an A380 at BOS soon (not an ANA A380 but an A380 and a 787 belonging to ANA). It may have to be a diversion, but I would love to see it.

I hope your dream comes true, because I stand by my declaration that ANA will be the first carrier to offer service between Boston and Asia. The A380 might be hyperbole (OK...is), but there is no apparent enthusiasm from DL/NW...the only domestic carrier with the wherewithal to do it.

Did anyone get a chance to shoot the DL 772LR that was diverted to BOS this morning?

Quoting B752OS (Reply 10): Did anyone get a chance to shoot the DL 772LR that was diverted to BOS this morning?

Is it really a 'diversion' if they know they're going there before they even take off?   

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 9): The A380 might be hyperbole (OK...is), but there is no apparent enthusiasm from DL/NW

Yeah, ANA is not going to fly an A380 here, it will of course be a 787 or maybe an A350. BOS has made preparations for A380 diversions, so maybe we'll see a few. I'm amazed at the size of the planes they use for TATL flights (especially the plane AF uses) but in my dream the A380 looked like something out of Star Trek. It took a minute to pass overhead. It was a hundred times bigger than it will be. Maybe EK will fly one here? BOS seems to appear on the list of cities they'll serve but that sounds like a 787 city.

Word is that Delta wants to trade 787s now on the order book (from NW) for more 777LRs. I think this guarantees that Delta has no interest in serving Boston from Asia. The 777LR might have the legs to do it, but it has too many seats.

I don't get the impression that Delta is at all keen on the 787. I also don't get the sense that there's any interest from them in developing new 'long-and-thin' routes. The 777 is a 'trunk-route' plane and that seems to be what Delta wants to focus on...trunk routes.

ANA is a step closer to being first-to-market in Boston, IMO.

October Passenger drops for New England Airports

BDL -14.95%
MHT -11.6%
BOS -11.3%
PVD -8.35%

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 13): Word is that Delta wants to trade 787s now on the order book (from NW) for more 777LRs. I think this guarantees that Delta has no interest in serving Boston from Asia. The 777LR might have the legs to do it, but it has too many seats. I don't get the impression that Delta is at all keen on the 787. I also don't get the sense that there's any interest from them in developing new 'long-and-thin' routes. The 777 is a 'trunk-route' plane and that seems to be what Delta wants to focus on...trunk routes. ANA is a step closer to being first-to-market in Boston, IMO.

Hey the Sox just signed another big Japanese pitcher after he rejected deals from Atlanta, Texas and Seattle. I can just see the thousands of more Japanese tourists coming now! sarcasm.

Quoting B752OS (Reply 15): Hey the Sox just signed another big Japanese pitcher after he rejected deals from Atlanta, Texas and Seattle. I can just see the thousands of more Japanese tourists coming now! sarcasm.

Yeah, this pitcher will be dispatched initially to the minor leagues so I guess that means nonstops from Tokyo to Providence.   

Quoting Apodino (Reply 6): MHT is a bit trickier. DL only uses Gate 7 in MHT, and NW uses Gates 3 and 4. One thing that would make the most sense might be for NW and UA to do a gate swap, giving NW 5 and 6, keeping the combined carrier with 5-7. For UA this has the added benefit of putting them next to CO as their Star Partner.

It does seem simple enough for NW/UA to swap positions. But the real question is, will DL/NW want to keep all of those gates, or try and run their ops out of one of the locations? I am not sure how the leases work at MHT, but in a cost cutting time, it seems they would want to downsize.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 5): Let's also give a hat-tip to Worcester, which commenced new nonstop service to Orlando aboard Direct Air (Virgin America) A320s. An article, with pictures: http://www.telegram.com/article/20081123/NEWS/811230404/0/FRONTPAGE

I love how the writer of the article says "Plasma screens".

Quoting Afitch7881 (Reply 18): I love how the writer of the article says "Plasma screens".

These are newspaper writers, not MENSA candidates. The gap between those camps is as wide as the gap between Earth and that rock we call Pluto. Perhaps even wider. Be thankful that he didn't call the plane a jumbo jet.

Quoting Jawake (Reply 17): But the real question is, will DL/NW want to keep all of those gates, or try and run their ops out of one of the locations? I am not sure how the leases work at MHT, but in a cost cutting time, it seems they would want to downsize.

No way DL keeps all three gates at MHT - they'll have no more than 5 flights a day there - they could probably get by with one gate - they'll either stick with Gate 7 and consolidate or use 3/4.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 13): I think this guarantees that Delta has no interest in serving Boston from Asia.

You know what's proof that DL isn't interested in BOS-Asia? Not only is there nothing going over that pond, there is nothing going over THIS pond! AMS? That might as well be a KLM flight. Post-merger, it probably will be a KLM flight. Maybe the rumors of SNN are true, but otherwise, they don't have anything flying BOS-Europe, even to London. Internationally, the only flights they have are to Canada and Bermuda.

So I noticed the EI-B6 deal was expanded to include BOS! This is good news for us, as it reaffirms both airlines' commitments to BOS. Connecting traffic can boost revenue for an airport, but I wonder how much traffic you are going to get. The cities available for connection through BOS are BUF, SEA, SAN, LAS, RIC, PBI, FLL. TPA and LGB are added in as well, but I don't know if it's only going one-way or what, and the route map doesn't show them despite being able to book tickets on those routes.

It appears that BTV is turning to the public to try and get some air service to BOS. I’m not sure if the results of the survey will convince any airline to start up BTV-BOS service, but would be nice to see. As for the airlines that might try it my guess would be US Airways Express (smaller planes), JetBlue would be nice but IMO to much capacity even being an E190.

http://www.burlingtonintlairport.com/

Quoting BTVB6Flyer (Reply 22): It appears that BTV is turning to the public to try and get some air service to BOS

Wow -- no one is currently flying BTVBOS? I wasnt aware. I worked for Business Express back in late 80s and we had tons of flights - everything from F27s to SF3s to 1900s and there seemed to be passengers galore.

Back further, Air New England with their FH227s and even the Northeast (and later DL) DC9s and 727s did the route. Its hard to picture no service at all on this route.

This route (or lack thereof) is a good example of what a different world aviation-wise we live in now. I'm starting not to like it very much anymore.

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 20): No way DL keeps all three gates at MHT - they'll have no more than 5 flights a day there - they could probably get by with one gate - they'll either stick with Gate 7 and consolidate or use 3/4.

This makes sense.

Not sure if it has it been discussed, but is NW going to pull out of Terminal E and move over to B at BOS? Have they done it already? Makes a lot of sense.

Would the BOS-AMS NW flight still be out of terminal E? I would guess so given it is international.

Quoting Tdubjfk (Reply 23): Wow -- no one is currently flying BTVBOS? I wasnt aware. I worked for Business Express back in late 80s and we had tons of flights - everything from F27s to SF3s to 1900s and there seemed to be passengers galore. Back further, Air New England with their FH227s and even the Northeast (and later DL) DC9s and 727s did the route. Its hard to picture no service at all on this route. This route (or lack thereof) is a good example of what a different world aviation-wise we live in now. I'm starting not to like it very much anymore.

The last BOS-BTV service was on Big Sky/DL Connection last year. I thought Cape Air would pick this up like they did with the other routes, but no they did not.

Also, I was at ORH to see the premiere flight for the VX/Direct Air service. Boy was it co

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 21): AMS? That might as well be a KLM flight.

I have heard that DL metal will take over this flying next year. Nothing confirmed yet, but it would make sense.

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 26): I have heard that DL metal will take over this flying next year. Nothing confirmed yet, but it would make sense.

I would imagine it would be a good 757 or a 763 route and use the A330 to upgrade a route from JFK or ATL thats currently on a 763.

Quoting Jawake (Reply 24): Would the BOS-AMS NW flight still be out of terminal E? I would guess so given it is international.

Alot of people on here make the big fuss about terminal A/ E ops for Delta and international ops. Its really not that had of a walk at all, and the only real hassle would be going through security again, though for INTL-domestic connections you'd have to do that anyways.

How;s the Cape Air service working for LEB these days?? '

Huh, apparently my last post got cut off. I'll chalk it up to a.net troubles.  

As I was saying, I went up to ORH to see the premiere flight for Direct Air/VX when it came in about a week and a half ago.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Virgi...ectAir)/Airbus-A320-214/1429076/L/

(I pasted the link manually since it seems that the photoid function is causing the forum to barf.)

Boy was it windy. ORH has a nice terminal, though. I had a quick walk around while I was there, and for a small airport it's really tops. It reminds me of MSO's in Montana, except MSO's new terminal is now a bit larger.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 27): I would imagine it would be a good 757 or a 763 route and use the A330 to upgrade a route from JFK or ATL thats currently on a 763.

No way BOS-AMS drops below a 763. If DL takes over the flight with their metal, I would be it would be 1 x daily 763 year round and the seasonal second daily 752 flight which is the current set up.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 27): Alot of people on here make the big fuss about terminal A/ E ops for Delta and international ops. Its really not that had of a walk at all, and the only real hassle would be going through security again, though for INTL-domestic connections you'd have to do that anyways.

I agree. But luckily, the bulk of BOS-Europe starts and ends in BOS so people don't have to worry about that hassle.

Quoting B752OS (Reply 30): No way BOS-AMS drops below a 763. If DL takes over the flight with their metal, I would be it would be 1 x daily 763 year round and the seasonal second daily 752 flight which is the current set up.

I wouldnt be suprised if we see the 2nd flight shift to CDG, perhaps on delta metal

AMS - 1x 763
CDG - 1x AF 777/747 and 1x DL 757

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 27): I would imagine it would be a good 757 or a 763 route

I think ultimately that's a stupid idea since, from everything I've ever seen, BOS-AMS is one of the more profitable routes for NW/KL. The recent addition of the 757 (which, by all accounts if more than just 'seasonal'. It operates for all but 2-3 months during the dead of winter) is an example of this. But, as some have said, I don't think DL really has much commitment to BOS and will either give this route to KL (which would be fine by me) or downgrading it to a 763, maybe a 764 if they're feeling saucy(I doubt they'll cancel it altogether but I wouldn't rule that out either and just funnel people through JFK and CDG).

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 27): Alot of people on here make the big fuss about terminal A/ E ops for Delta and international ops

Agree. In fact, in my opinion, I think E-to-A connections are the easiest at Logan. I mean, let's look at it really. You have a straight shot across the airport in a completely enclosed, indoor environment. If you're in a rush you can run in it about 3-5 mins. Feeling like a stroll? 7-10 mins. Got all the time in the world, stand on all the moving walkways and be there in 12-15 mins and enjoy the nice view while doing so.

Compare this to going from E to B (which all AA connecting pax have to do). They must first exit the building. Boston weather is not the end of the world, but if you're not used to it, it can be a bit rough, especially if coming from the UK where it's not particularly cold and you're headed to Florida and are not prepared for the 20ºF weather. Then you have to wait for the #11 bus, which if you're lucky, will come in 10 mins or less. Then you have to schlep your carry-ons up those lovely steps (I like how Massport contracts airport buses, where people will have lots of bags, to a company who doesn't operate low-floor buses) and go halfway to Indiana to get back to Terminal B (though, it has got better now that the roadway system has been officially completed. So, you tell me which connection you'd prefer.

The biggest hurdle faced would be the aircraft tow. An aircraft not in operation does not have high priority when it comes to transiting the airport from one side to the other. They must give priority to aircraft underway to/from the gates, etc. For this reason, it's not unusual to expect that a tow from E to A could take in excess of 30-45 minutes. This, on an international turn-around, is no small period of time and, for instance when Air France used to tow from E to C, could be the difference between an on-time departure and a delay. Now, NW buffers their turnaround so if the plane were to get tangled in a mid-afternoon traffic jam, they have a bit of time to play with but it is a headache. That said, with only 1 destination at present, why not just keep the AMS?

LH423

Quoting LH423 (Reply 32): I think ultimately that's a stupid idea since, from everything I've ever seen, BOS-AMS is one of the more profitable routes for NW/KL. The recent addition of the 757 (which, by all accounts if more than just 'seasonal'. It operates for all but 2-3 months during the dead of winter) is an example of this. But, as some have said, I don't think DL really has much commitment to BOS and will either give this route to KL (which would be fine by me) or downgrading it to a 763, maybe a 764 if they're feeling saucy(I doubt they'll cancel it altogether but I wouldn't rule that out either and just funnel people through JFK and CDG).

Iunder the assumption that 1x AMS and 1x CDG operate primarily as O&D for BOS, and that the 2nd AMS was added capacity geared towards connections, Im thinking that CDG is being pushed as the primary "connecting" airport.

It makes no difference who flies what route over the Atlantic, DL/NW/AF/KL and it will make the same money because of the joint venture.

The problem is that DL is flying inferior aircraft on big competitive routes, and some non competitive routes could go to a 763 and use the A330 for a higher profile route. Heck DL still flies 763's on ATL-CDG and i think ATL-LHR too.

Overall I think the merger and joint venture will ahve a positive impact on BOS's INTL service.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 33): Overall I think the merger and joint venture will have a positive impact on BOS's INTL service.

Problem is, they haven't said that themselves. It would be a nice thing to have more international nonstops from Boston, but aside from us collectively believing that there will be a 'positive impact,' no one is stepping up to the plate and actually making it so.

The 787s, whenever they come, will be the opportunity. And then, probably not with the very first 787s that come into the fleets. Middle of next decade is my guess, for anything substantive to happen internationally from Boston...if we agree that 787s are going to be the catalyst for it. Poor Boeing; their problems with the 787 make Airbus' A380 issues seem tame.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 34): Problem is, they haven't said that themselves. It would be a nice thing to have more international nonstops from Boston, but aside from us collectively believing that there will be a 'positive impact,' no one is stepping up to the plate and actually making it so.

I really dont think it will equate to new destinations for BOS, just a better level of local service

Like with DL and NW's BOS network, they will have CDG and AMS and may want to persue BOS-London on behalf of the transatlantic joint venture.

Another BOS-London flight or a frequency change in AMS or CDG isnt worth making promises for at this stage in the game. But the end result will be a key domestic BOS player with 3 transatlantic destinations.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 35): I really dont think it will equate to new destinations for BOS, just a better level of local service Like with DL and NW's BOS network, they will have CDG and AMS and may want to persue BOS-London on behalf of the transatlantic joint venture. Another BOS-London flight or a frequency change in AMS or CDG isnt worth making promises for at this stage in the game. But the end result will be a key domestic BOS player with 3 transatlantic destinations.

BOS-LHR is well served with 3 airlines and 6 daily flights. I don't think there is room or a need for a 4th carrier.

Moving the second BOS-AMS 752 flight to CDG makes sense. Either way the flight should stick around.

The only real new route the 787 will bring to BOS is non-stop service to Asia.

Quoting RJNUT (Reply 28): How;s the Cape Air service working for LEB these days?? '

They appear to be doing well, running 6 flights a day, although its still hard to get used to seeing 402s rather than a Saab. I haven't heard anything about passenger loads, but it looks like at least 2 or 3 people are taking them up on each run.
There was an article in the Valley News on Sunday about how the airport is in debt, however they are trying to convince Dartmouth College and the Medical Center to buy bulk tickets to the New York or DC area.

Quote: Gobin said he hopes to add flights to New York City and Washington, D.C. If Dartmouth College, Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center and other large businesses would commit to bulk ticket purchases, it might entice an airline to add those flights, he said.

http://www.vnews.com/11302008/5204459.htm

Also it looks like they may try to open the cafe in the terminal building in the spring time. Of course we have all heard that news before.

Quoting B752OS (Reply 36): BOS-LHR is well served with 3 airlines and 6 daily flights. I don't think there is room or a need for a 4th carrier.

Is all BOS service to LHR? or is some LGW?

If AA and BA get their ATI approved, That essentially mkes it 2 carriers on BOS-LON and I thin DL/NW may enter as a player in the market, even if its just 1x

It was a few years back (or, at least a couple) when Virgin switched from Gatwick to Heathrow. Boston-LHR has lost a few seats, though, when AA downgraded from 777s to 763s on the route.

Quoting B752OS (Reply 30): No way BOS-AMS drops below a 763.

I wouldn't bet money on it. I don't think a DL 763 would work simply because the product is so inferior to anything else out there. Personally, I think it would be a waste to operate this route with anything less than a 764. I would not be the least bit surprised to see KLM jump on the BOS-AMS route. DL has absolutely no interest in operating TATL from BOS. Period.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 40): I would not be the least bit surprised to see KLM jump on the BOS-AMS route.

Again.. KL or DL, it doesnt matter to them because of the anti trust imminuty. They will coordinate and figure it out, because no matter what, they split the cost and revenue evenly!

It will be a joint DL/KL(AF) decision.

I know it has been discussed at length about new international service out of BOS, and I am not trying to start a BOS Asian route speculation.

What I was wondering, could any one see DL, NW, AF, KL at BOS develop a new approach / strategy with the Open Skies agreement. Would they be interested in new routes to British Isles, Ireland, Scandinavia, Spain, Portugal, etc.....out of BOS. BOS could be such a great place to do that for this group.

Yes, I know the economy stinks right now, and expansion is not expected anywhere. But long range focus.

Maybe ATL is too well developed as a hub, as well as DTW. Just my 2 cents, DL, NW, AF, KL could really dominate international service out of BOS. Be what SFO is for UA, BOS the gateway for Skyteam to Europe, Africa.

Quoting Jawake (Reply 42): Be what SFO is for UA, BOS the gateway for Skyteam to Europe, Africa.

Even in the long term I don't see that hapenning. Hell, B6 would probably be more likely to do it than DL. That's probably 10 years down the road though. DL doesn't seem to care about BOS as a TATL hub and there are only so many markets where BOS can support a flight even with connections.

Quoting Tdubjfk (Reply 23): Wow -- no one is currently flying BTVBOS? I wasnt aware. I worked for Business Express back in late 80s and we had tons of flights - everything from F27s to SF3s to 1900s and there seemed to be passengers galore. Back further, Air New England with their FH227s and even the Northeast (and later DL) DC9s and 727s did the route. Its hard to picture no service at all on this route.

BTV-BOS also was served with the Business Express RJ70 and the Atlantic Coast D328Jet, IIRC. And I think USAir tried DC9s on the route for a short time.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 40): DL has absolutely no interest in operating TATL from BOS. Period.

     

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 41): Again.. KL or DL, it doesnt matter to them because of the anti trust imminuty.

I don't think it's that simple. No matter how synergic the alliance is, there has to be some advantages to operating a route with your own metal. For starters, KL has absolutely no name recognition in the BOS market while DL is one of the most regognized carriers in the market. I'd venture guessing that the established TATL carriers like BA, LH and even AF would have a lot to gain from DL/NW dropping this route.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 46): No matter how synergic the alliance is, there has to be some advantages to operating a route with your own metal. For starters, KL has absolutely no name recognition in the BOS

So thats why Air France is starting JFK-LHR?

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 46): For starters, KL has absolutely no name recognition in the BOS market while DL is one of the most recognized carriers in the market.

Would you agree that perhaps now is the best time for a carrier that doesn't have 'name recognition' to finally get it? I think this is an excellent time for an 'unknown' carrier to build something in Boston, and to be fair, KLM isn't an 'unknown' like BWIA was or Aero Mexico was. I would say that KLM has more recognition than Iberia, and look who is in Boston now and who isn't!

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 43): Even in the long term I don't see that hapenning. Hell, B6 would probably be more likely to do it than DL. That's probably 10 years down the road though. DL doesn't seem to care about BOS as a TATL hub and there are only so many markets where BOS can support a flight even with connections.

DL seems content with expanding ATL-Europe thanks to the massive amount of connections they get there and expanding JFK to take the NYC market.

I think BOS could support some 752 flight, with local and connecting traffic, to places like MXP (Alone BOS could handle this flight), MAN, LIS, BRU and GLA for example.

Of course this won't happen.

Quoting B752OS (Reply 49): I think BOS could support some 752 flight, with local and connecting traffic, to places like MXP (Alone BOS could handle this flight), MAN, LIS, BRU and GLA for example. Of course this won't happen.

That will take time, if it even were to happen

I dont think A 752 could make it to MXP, but perhaps 3-4x weekly seasonal 763?

Starters if Skyteam wants to be an INTL player at BOS and taken seriously, they will need London, even if its just a 752 to LGW

All routes would need to be supported by probably an average of 75% local

Id do something like this for the 1-5 year range:
Daily London (LHR or LGW, 757 or 763 or A332 if AF)
4x weekly DUB 3x SNN 752
3-4x weekly Seasonal MXP 763
4x weekly MAN 3x weekly GLA 752

The 4x and the 3x routes would be doen by the same aircraft so its exxentally 3.5 daily flights mentioned above, 2 or 3 of which are 757s, So I wouldnt call that "overkill" for BOS.

With those, Skyteam at BOS would have
CDG, AMS, LON, DUB, SNN, MXP, MAN, GLA and all flights would carry a DL NW AF and KL code. After those I think they next target would be FRA.

LH Italia may be the one to start MXP. That route only works in the summer. AP couldn't make it work, so why would DL? LH would have the advantage of having numerous connections there the way AZ used to.

DUB and SNN are likely when they get preclearance.

MAN and GLA are good ones, but would they be interested?

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 47): So thats why Air France is starting JFK-LHR?

It should do as well as their LAX-LHR route. Remember that silliness?

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 16): Yeah, this pitcher will be dispatched initially to the minor leagues so I guess that means nonstops from Tokyo to Providence.

Hmm, have they gone with a longer runway option at PVD again?  

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 53): Hmm, have they gone with a longer runway option at PVD again?

He said Tokyo TO PVD... that can be done no problem... its PVD-Tokyo that'd have the trouble!

I'd be happy with better service to Toronto, nevemind Tokyo!!

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 55): I'd be happy with better service to Toronto, nevemind Tokyo!!

Heck, I think up here at MHT we'd make front-page news with service to Boston...since that's what the airlines want to do. Once upon a time, MHT-BOS was a pretty well-served route.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 56): Once upon a time, MHT-BOS was a pretty well-served route.

Really? Wow. So many people don't (or didn't) want to drive 55 miles, huh?

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 46): For starters, KL has absolutely no name recognition in the BOS market while DL is one of the most regognized carriers in the market.

How much does name recognition play into it? If you go to a site like Orbitz, you'll find KLM as much as DL.

[quote=RL757PVD,reply=54]He said Tokyo TO PVD... that can be done no problem... its PVD-Tokyo that'd have the trouble[/quote

Let us give thanks that we do not have many Japanese ball players here at Pawtucket. I get your point though.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 48): I would say that KLM has more recognition than Iberia, and look who is in Boston now and who isn't!

And look how badly IB is doing (supposedly). I still think KLM would do better than IB. Funny thing about brand recognition is, you only need to invest some money in a well placed marketing campaign   Also KLM offers valuable connections to India which IB doesn't.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 51): AP couldn't make it work, so why would DL?

Because most of Boston-Italy traffic originates in Boston, not Italy, and DL/Skyteam have a strong following in greater Boston and New England. AP couldn't get their foot in the door with the local tour operators either, which make up the bulk of the sales for Italy travel. The group travel business to Italy is huge but AP was a new comer to the market.

First day of snow! And if you hate the cold, Wednesday will be 58 degrees out! Gotta love Boston. Okay, since you guys would most likely know more than anyone, you could answer this question: planes take off into the wind and they land going into the wind. At BOS, you usually take off on Runway 22 or 14 in the summer and land on Runway 4. 4 is NE, 22 is SW, and 14 is SE, if you didn't know already. In the winter, they take off on Runway 9 and land on either 27 or 32. Why do they do that? In the summer, there is little wind, but why do they come in from the southwest instead of the northeast (Runway 4/22 is 10,000 feet long).

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 60): First day of snow! And if you hate the cold, Wednesday will be 58 degrees out! Gotta love Boston. Okay, since you guys would most likely know more than anyone, you could answer this question: planes take off into the wind and they land going into the wind. At BOS, you usually take off on Runway 22 or 14 in the summer and land on Runway 4. 4 is NE, 22 is SW, and 14 is SE, if you didn't know already. In the winter, they take off on Runway 9 and land on either 27 or 32. Why do they do that? In the summer, there is little wind, but why do they come in from the southwest instead of the northeast (Runway 4/22 is 10,000 feet long).

There's a few common traffic patterns.

1. Land 4s and take off 4s/9/15 depending upon prevailing winds.

2. Land 27/22L, take off 22s.

3. Land 33L, take off 27 (and vice-versa).

I have rarely seen that new extra runway in use, but this may just be a coincidence based upon when I watch. It was my understanding that 14/32 had several restrictions on how/when it could be used.

Something to keep in mind is that 4L is currently the only runway with Category IIIC instrument landing capability.

[Edited 2008-12-07 21:51:20]

Quoting Dvincent (Reply 61): There's a few common traffic patterns. 1. Land 4s and take off 4s/9/15 depending upon prevailing winds. 2. Land 27/22L, take off 22s. 3. Land 33L, take off 27 (and vice-versa).

Okay, thanks! However, I've seen summer days where they take off on 22 and then all of the sudden start landing on 4. It's not like the wind did a 180 and started blowing from the other direction, so why the switch?

BTW VX is coming to BOS! Now we have something worth talking about!

Does anyone think that the VX entry into BOS might compel B6 to spread out a bit more in New England beyond PWM & BOS?

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 63): Does anyone think that the VX entry into BOS might compel B6 to spread out a bit more in New England beyond PWM & BOS?

As much as I would like to think so, probably not since VX is only a west coast threat to them, whereas any B6 service would be JFK and Florida for places like PVD/MHT

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 64): As much as I would like to think so, probably not since VX is only a west coast threat to them, whereas any B6 service would be JFK and Florida for places like PVD/MHT

I agree. Virgin coming to Boston forces JetBlue to do nothing more than perhaps tweak their Boston-west coast offerings. But it's not a move that will pressure them to broaden their base in New England (which they probably think is broad enough as it is).

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 65): I agree. Virgin coming to Boston forces JetBlue to do nothing more than perhaps tweak their Boston-west coast offerings. But it's not a move that will pressure them to broaden their base in New England (which they probably think is broad enough as it is).

I also don't think the entry of VX into the Boston market will force B6 to spread in New England. But the Boston-California market, which is very large, has taken a hit over the last 9 months or so as DL has cut BOS-LAX, UA has trimmed BOS-LAX and AA has also trimmed BOS-LAX. B6 has also trimmed their Boston-California offerings a bit as well. The entry of VX is giving the market some much needed capacity, especially to LAX.


I still think FL could do well with opening up PVD. I know there are others in here who feel the same way.

Quoting B752OS (Reply 66): I still think FL could do well with opening up PVD. I know there are others in here who feel the same way.

Don't have to tell me that. Ive used PVD once in the past 2 years and that was only becaused they changed by BOS schedule, Used to use PVD 8-10 times per year. My BOS tally for the year will hit 5 at x-mas. Each BOS use has been at 1/2 the fare they charge for PVD.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 65): I agree. Virgin coming to Boston forces JetBlue to do nothing more than perhaps tweak their Boston-west coast offerings. But it's not a move that will pressure them to broaden their base in New England (which they probably think is broad enough as it is).

That's called complacency. We can't assume that LAX and SFO will be the only cities served by VX from BOS in the near future. Surely they have bigger plans in mind especially considering that BOS was once in the run to be their primary base.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 65): I agree. Virgin coming to Boston forces JetBlue to do nothing more than perhaps tweak their Boston-west coast offerings. But it's not a move that will pressure them to broaden their base in New England (which they probably think is broad enough as it is).

I am not sure, it was only this summer when B6 trimmed the schedule from BOS to the West Coast. I think VX is trying to jump in and scoop up business that would go to AA, UA or B6.

B6 served BOS-LA, and BOS-SFO, and now they don't. I think VX thinks there is $$$ to be made.

I highly highly highly doubt we will see B6 in MHT or PVD. They have a vaccine against arilines such as FL & B6 , it is called the WN Vaccine.

Well, there are several cities where JetBlue and Southwest coexist, so JetBlue isn't totally against entering markets where Southwest already exists.

Off topic, but I was looking at the Delta Air Lines timetable and noted that the '757'and the '752' are both listed on the Boston-Atlanta run. I think I recall someone saying that the '752' represents an ex-Song aircraft. But is it even worth making that distinction any more?

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 70): Off topic, but I was looking at the Delta Air Lines timetable and noted that the '757'and the '752' are both listed on the Boston-Atlanta run. I think I recall someone saying that the '752' represents an ex-Song aircraft. But is it even worth making that distinction any more?

Ex song had 2 extra first class seats, and PTVs in each seat, if Im flexible and theres one of the ex song birds, ill try and get on them.

According to a current thread going on SW is dropping MHT-FLL.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4240185/

According to another current thread, B6 is going to fly BOS-SFO again

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4240277/

That is a lot of metal between BOS-SFO

AA, UA, VX & now possibly B6

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 57): Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 56): Once upon a time, MHT-BOS was a pretty well-served route. Really? Wow. So many people don't (or didn't) want to drive 55 miles, huh?

That route was probably flown BEFORE I-93 was fully completed (in 1972) and/or most likely involved passengers connecting through BOS.

Quoting B752OS (Reply 66): I still think FL could do well with opening up PVD. I know there are others in here who feel the same way.

Other than ATL and maybe MKE, what routes could FL offer PVD that WN doesn't already offer? Keep in mind that now that FL charges for the first checked bag; WN has a greater advantage over them on competing routes and/or itineraries.

Quoting BTVB6Flyer (Reply 72): According to a current thread going on SW is dropping MHT-FLL.

I haven't had a chance to look at that thread yet. I wonder if that's just a temporary discontinuance or a mistake (like OH recently did w/PHL-BOS).

BTW, Southwest's code is actually WN. 

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 70): Well, there are several cities where JetBlue and Southwest coexist, so JetBlue isn't totally against entering markets where Southwest already exists.

But at those airports, do they directly compete with each other on nonstop routes and are those competing routes mostly Florida markets by any chance?

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 74): BTW, Southwest's code is actually WN.

My mistake I was in a rush when I posted this. As for the route drop it does seem odd. I wonder if BOS is drawing in some of those passengers?

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 74): But at those airports, do they directly compete with each other on nonstop routes and are those competing routes mostly Florida markets by any chance?

See, this is where I come to agree that Southwest and JetBlue can coexist if the routes don't clash. BUT, if Southwest came to Boston then there would be no avoidance of routes clashing...at least with respect to Florida. How could these two airlines possibly stay out of each others way? They couldn't. But in several other cities, they can and do. Virtually every major airport in Florida is served by both, and so are places like SJC, SFO, SAN, SEA, RDU. But in those latter examples, they stay out of the way of the 'other guy.'

[Edited 2008-12-09 13:44:49]

BDL-AMS is back.....



http://www.courant.com/business/hcu-...sterdamflight-1209,0,3087277.story





Northwest To Resume Hartford To Amsterdam Flight

By CHRISTOPHER KEATING | The Hartford Courant
10:57 AM EST, December 9, 2008

In a surprise announcement to a business group, Gov. M. Jodi Rell said Tuesday morning that nonstop, transatlantic airline flights will resume from Bradley International Airport to Amsterdam.

The once-popular flights had stopped in October because of skyrocketing fuel prices, but the recent collapse in prices has led to the resumption, officials said.

"When an airline cancels service, it is rarely resumed - especially one that is international,'' Rell told about 300 business executives at the Marriott hotel at the state's convention center in downtown Hartford. "I may have to take a flight to Amsterdam.''

Rell told the crowd that she had an announcement to make, and she called state transportation commissioner Joseph F. Marie and Bradley airport chairman L. Scott Frantz of Greenwich to the stage before making her statement.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 74): Other than ATL and maybe MKE, what routes could FL offer PVD that WN doesn't already offer? Keep in mind that now that FL charges for the first checked bag; WN has a greater advantage over them on competing routes and/or itineraries.

MKE no way, PBI and RSW though, combined have a peak daily O&D of 900, in addition to ATL who's O&D is vastly understated.

3x ATL 1x RSW 1x PBI would be a great start.

Quoting BTVB6Flyer (Reply 75): I wonder if BOS is drawing in some of those passengers?

Don't think so. As much as for any other reason, Florida tourism and leisure travel is off precipitously to most destinations there this year

If anyone wants to see an example of a 'sweep' flight, take a look at FedEx Flight 1291 tonight on FlightAware:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/FDX1291

The A310 left Portland, Maine and you can clearly see that the first 45 minutes or so--down to the southwest corner of Massachusetts--had the plane going on its normal nightly run to Memphis. But the call came into the cockpit, and he banged a right turn and zoomed over to Rochester, NY.

FedEx has certain, specific flights that they can call upon while airborne to drop into another city to help in an emergency...if the plane in the downstream station is broken, or if there is more freight than the plane they have can handle.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 80): If anyone wants to see an example of a 'sweep' flight, take a look at FedEx Flight 1291 tonight on FlightAware: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/FDX1291 The A310 left Portland, Maine and you can clearly see that the first 45 minutes or so--down to the southwest corner of Massachusetts--had the plane going on its normal nightly run to Memphis. But the call came into the cockpit, and he banged a right turn and zoomed over to Rochester, NY. FedEx has certain, specific flights that they can call upon while airborne to drop into another city to help in an emergency...if the plane in the downstream station is broken, or if there is more freight than the plane they have can handle.

I always wondered about that, thanks for sharing.

I have noticed the FX DC-10 has returned to MHT. Can we say LLBean Holiday Season...

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 78): PBI and RSW though, combined have a peak daily O&D of 900

If that's the case, what's preventing WN from offering nonstop service to PVD; they also serve BOTH PBI and RSW? Not to mention the fact that WN has long since established itself at PVD.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 76): I come to agree that Southwest and JetBlue can coexist if the routes don't clash.

Similar can be said regarding WN and FL. Although as of late, it seems that FL has dropped many of its non-MCO Florida routes in cities where either WN (PHL as an example) or B6 (out of BOS) also serve (FL might have also dropped BOS-MCO as well). Previously all the Florida nonstops to cities where both WN and FL served seemed to be a non-issue.

I've stated this before and I'll say it again. If WN ever decides to set up shop either at or near ATL; FL's could be in for a bigger fight at its home airport than F9 is out presently of AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN. Yes, B6 retreated from ATL but part of that was due to their own foolish scheduling of flights at oddball times AND the fact that they (B6) were (and are still) a young carrier. WN has longevity on their side which would more likely make them better equipped to fight BOTH DL & FL IMHO.

seems BOS-west coast is the week's hot topic:

AA is reinstating BOS-SAN
B6 is reinstating BOS-SFO
VX is starting 3X BOS-LAX and 2X BOS-SFO
AS is adding a 2nd BOS-SEA

I wonder if UA will sit back and watch or if they will decide to bump up LAX and SFO?

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 82): If that's the case, what's preventing WN from offering nonstop service to PVD; they also serve BOTH PBI and RSW? Not to mention the fact that WN has long since established itself at PVD.

WN is not a big player on either end there. Heck They sat back and let NK offer 4x to FLL and RSW and generate over 1,200 O&D pax and WN did nothing, they march to the beat of their own drum. FL or B6 would make a KILLING on PBI or RSW from PVD. ( at 1x each)

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 83): seems BOS-west coast is the week's hot topic: AA is reinstating BOS-SAN B6 is reinstating BOS-SFO VX is starting 3X BOS-LAX and 2X BOS-SFO AS is adding a 2nd BOS-SEA I wonder if UA will sit back and watch or if they will decide to bump up LAX and SFO?

Well the second daily BOS-SEA flight is a seasonal add and it has been running for the last few years. So nothing new there. Nice to see AA return to BOS-SAN. With oil prices very low and an influx of planes, BOS-SAN is no surprise given the large market.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 56): MHT-BOS was a pretty well-served route.

That was back before RJ's were invented, WN came to New England, and Business Express and NW airlink were the two major players at BOS on a regional level. Now you can pay about 10 bucks for the MHT shuttle from Sullivan Square.

Quoting Dvincent (Reply 61): There's a few common traffic patterns. 1. Land 4s and take off 4s/9/15 depending upon prevailing winds. 2. Land 27/22L, take off 22s. 3. Land 33L, take off 27 (and vice-versa). I have rarely seen that new extra runway in use, but this may just be a coincidence based upon when I watch. It was my understanding that 14/32 had several restrictions on how/when it could be used.

The new runway has rarely been used. It is only used if NW winds force them to the 27-33L config. If there isn't a lot of arrival demand, they will depart 27 and land 33L. If there is a lot of arrival demand, they will switch this to Depart 33L and Land 32 and 27. This has led to an increase of 33L departures, which has made NIMBY's in Somerville a little less than pleased, and the bad part about it too is Massport hasn't done a good job of explaining anything about it.

Typically with east winds they will depart 9 (The best runway from a noise abatement standpoint), with the props 4L, and they will land 4R and 4L except in IFR conditions. 4L is used as an overflow Runway, with 4R the primary arrival runway. Since 9 is only 7000' long, sometimes the International and Transcons need a little more pavement, so usually 4R is available as a longer runway for takeoff, though this can cause some delays. They will on occasion also use 15R for this purpose as well, but since 15R crosses three active runways, you can be waiting a while for takeoff from 15R. On the rare occasion that 4R is unusuable, 15R will be used for landing, but this is very rare, and causes signifcant delays in BOS. Jets aren't allowed to use 4L for departures due to noise abatement.

BOS best config is the 22-27 config, used with west/southwesterly winds. They will depart 22R, with 22L if a longer runway is needed, and land 27 and 22L. 27 is the primary landing runway in this config being over water, and 22L is used sort of as an overflow. As a general rule, in this config the Gardner arrivals will be given 22L with the Scupp and Norwich arrivals 27. If the airport goes IFR, 27 has higher than normal ILS minimums, so occasionally they will just be on a pair of 22's. This can cause delays as well.

Quoting Jawake (Reply 81): I have noticed the FX DC-10 has returned to MHT. Can we say LLBean Holiday Season...

That's actually PWM business, and it's why they now have the A310 (soon to be an A300 for a week or two). L.L. Bean is only a half-hour up the road from the Portland Jetport.

I expected to see the Memphis flights upgrade to the DC-10, but I didn't expect the DC-10 that is now going from Columbus to Manchester to Indianapolis each morning. That's a new one.

Prevailing winds can change... Something to consider is noise abatement procedures

Quoting Apodino (Reply 86): BOS best config is the 22-27 config, used with west/southwesterly winds. They will depart 22R, with 22L if a longer runway is needed, and land 27 and 22L. 27 is the primary landing runway in this config being over water, and 22L is used sort of as an overflow. As a general rule, in this config the Gardner arrivals will be given 22L with the Scupp and Norwich arrivals 27. If the airport goes IFR, 27 has higher than normal ILS minimums, so occasionally they will just be on a pair of 22's. This can cause delays as well.

Useful information, thanks. I've figured most of it out just by trying to watch the planes, but it's nice to know the technical reasons as well.

It just seems a shame as they went through all that to get 14/32 built and now I rarely if ever hear arriving 32 on ATIS before I leave to go out.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 84): Heck They sat back and let NK offer 4x to FLL and RSW and generate over 1,200 O&D pax and WN did nothing, they march to the beat of their own drum.

IIRC, NK came to PVD and WENT after how long... about a year? WN probably knew early on that NK's stay at PVD wasn't going to be a long one so that's mostly why they didn't bother. B6 or FL OTOH, are much larger players than NK. If one of them came in; WN would notice and react. Don't believe me... look what happened when FL tried to expand at several non-ATL or Florida airports:

1. PHL (my home airport):

Several years ago, FL started growing PHL when it seemed that US was heading towards liquidation; WN swooped in and grew to a point where within one year, they (WN) were the 2nd largest carrier operating out of PHL. FL has since reduced its PHL routes to just 2 cities: ATL (where WN doesn't serve) and MCO (which actually competes w/WN is one FL's largest focus cities).

2. Metroplex - Dallas/Ft.Worth area:

When FL decided to expand DFW, with the potential of making it a 2nd hub for them, WN finally broke its long silence on regarding the Wright Ammendment and legally challenged it. When the through-ticketing barrier part of the Ammendment was instantly removed (no more Texas 2-Step); FL since retreated and reduced nonstop service to just ATL and one flight to/from MCO.

3. Chicago:

When TZ filed for Chapter 11 a few years ago, FL made a bid for its assets and gates at MDW. At the time, the only other bidder was HP (pre-US merger) who wanted to do an outright merger but later withdrew its offer. With the HP bid out of the way, it all seemed certain that FL's bid would be awarded; WN came out of nowhere and made what was a seemingly more attractive bid for TZ and the rest is history.

Side note: At BOS, FL has recently all but given up on most its Florida nonstop routes to B6. Only 2 BOS-MCO and 1 BOS-RSW nonstop flight remains on FL's timetable through early January.

Long story short: if FL or B6 decides to come to PVD to expand, WN will notice and respond.

Things could get very interesting in the NYC area when WN starts LGA service in B6's backyard... time will tell; but that's another topic for another thread.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 87): That's actually PWM business, and it's why they now have the A310 (soon to be an A300 for a week or two). L.L. Bean is only a half-hour up the road from the Portland Jetport. I

Not sure where I heard this, could have been from a conversation with a FX employee, but MHT does handle some of LL Beans business. The A310 are not big enough come the holiday rush and they overflow to MHT. Hence the bigger plane at MHT, DC-10. I will check, I have to do some FX soon myself!

It would almost seem more sensible to send DC-10s into Brunswick NAS rather than put stuff on a truck and drive it all the way down to Manchester. But it's their business, and far be it from me (I never knew the meaning of that phrase) to second-guess it. I am always amazed at how the cargo boys (FedEx and UPS) operate this time of year, making sure capacity meets demand as best as possible. The 18-wheel trucks, like in this case, help out as well; it's not strictly about the planes.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 89): NK came to PVD and WENT after how long... about a year?

10/28/04 to 4/30/07

about 2.5 years

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 91): It would almost seem more sensible to send DC-10s into Brunswick NAS rather than put stuff on a truck and drive it all the way down to Manchester.

Or even PSM, but I think it has to do with FX facilities, which would not exist at Brunswick & Portsmouth.

I also thought I heard that PWM was not big enough to handle the demand given space and people. Spreading it out between PWM & MHT helps. Sending trucks down the road seems a good idea if it is just for a few months.

Right. Portland has very little space for cargo jets, which is partly (totally?) why UPS doesn't fly there...no room at the inn. With DHL going away, I'd send a 757 in there every day if I were UPS. And I can find no good reason why that shouldn't happen. It helps us down here at MHT, too, because a group of the Wiggins feeder planes that now fly up to some of the Maine cities can now disappear and free up some of the UPS ramp space. I've been there to see a 757 parked next to an A300 parked next to a DC-8 parked next to a whole bunch of Wiggins planes. It's insane, and offloading some of the Maine business to PWM makes all the sense in the world. There's ramp space that DHL will be giving up; it's INSANE if UPS doesn't go up there themselves.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 89): NK came to PVD and WENT after how long... about a year?

It was over 2 years, I think they they even got in 3 peak seasons, each year providing more service than the previous.... they thought they could do better at BOS, and they thought wrong.

The snow during the weekend of December 20-21 has caused quite a mess for planes heading for New England airports...especially Logan. Bangor is racking up quite a list of interesting transient visitors.

Hi
I was wondering is BDL likely to see any transatlantic routes soon? I know NW operated BDL-AMS but then dropped it.

Quoting PP705 (Reply 97): I know NW operated BDL-AMS but then dropped it

And they brought it back!

I was surprised that nobody had mentioned that B6 is now the official airline of the Boston Red Sox. Friday they had a sale where flights to BUF were $9 one way. It was Friday only though. I think that's pretty cool, since they had mentioned they were going to do some charters in the Boston area just weeks before (oddly enough they said they may fly the Bruins or Celtics but didn't mention the Red Sox).

It's kind of ironic that the 'Official Airline of the Boston Red Sox' doesn't even fly the team on its road trips. Delta seems to have the Pats and Sox. Air Canada has the Bruins (staging from BED). I don't know who serves the Celtics, although they also fly from BED.

Im away from work e-mail so i dont have the EXACT #'s but traffic absolutley TANKED in november

PVD -13% (only 6% reduction in seats
BOS -15%
BDL -21% (probably the worst ever monthy loss for one of the larger new england airports)

Havent heard MHT's yet but based on the past few months im guessing they are down 17-18%

Having just flown up from ATL on what was supposed to be one of the busiest days of the year, I can assure you, December wont be any better...

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 100): Having just flown up from ATL on what was supposed to be one of the busiest days of the year, I can assure you, December wont be any better...

What goes around comes around. I know the state of the economy is keeping many folks from flying but I can't help but wonder how much of the nickle&diming adopted by the airlines as of recent times is also contributing to this down turn in demand. The reason I say this is because typically, people make their holiday plans and buy their tickets months and months in advance but it was only in the last 3 months or so that the bad economy started to have a serious impact on folks.

On a different note, LH is bringing back the 744 for the Summer season and increasing capacity at BOS. Looks like someone is feeling optimistic for the Summer  
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4256055/

[Edited 2008-12-24 05:38:40]

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 101): What goes around comes around. I know the state of the economy is keeping many folks from flying but I can't help but wonder how much of the nickle&diming adopted by the airlines as of recent times is also contributing to this down turn in demand.

I agree with you. The worst economy in decades would chase leisure travelers away and business fliers, too (layoffs and belt-tightening). But you're right: The airlines just exacerbated their own demise with sub-standard service and then charging more for it to boot. It's like a negative vortex: The worse airline economics get, the more they try to 'extract' extra money from their customers. The more they do that, the less agreeable people will be to fly in the first place. And people are smart enough to know that all these fees were 'needed' when fuel was at all-time highs. But it's not anymore, yet the fees remain.

The dour outlook for the airline industry is, to a degree, self inflicted.

Even if the first checked bag was free and then charge for the second. The much higher fares and the fees together is certainly hurting demand. I understand that the airlines fought hard to raise fares, but the fees are widely seen as over the top right now. Drinks, blankets, etc. - I have no problem paying for those. People's stuff are called their belongings for a reason - there is an attachement and people fell they shouldn't have to pay to bring their clothes on their trip. A carry-on, a personal item, and 1 checked bag under 50 pounds seems reasonable.

Folks, for those of you who frequent the Yahoo Groups, I finally re-claimed control over the Bangor Group I founded a few years back.

The URL is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bangor_international/

Chris

It's good to see B6, AA, and VX adding service to BOS. The economy is bad. Can they really fill all of those flights? Also, why don't the airports in southwestern CT like Bridgeport or HPN have service to BOS/JFK/EWR? It takes just as long to drive that distance from that area to those airports as it does to fly. This makes me wonder why the BDL-AMS flights don't do so well either.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 105): Also, why don't the airports in southwestern CT like Bridgeport or HPN have service to BOS/JFK/EWR?

The takeoff/landing slots (or even if they dont have slots, the "real estate") is too valuable for pax they will probably get anyways. BOS would work if they has more of a "hub" presence. It could have worked with the B1900's and DL is fuel didnt get out of hand.

Quoting Jawake (Reply 93): Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 91): It would almost seem more sensible to send DC-10s into Brunswick NAS rather than put stuff on a truck and drive it all the way down to Manchester. Or even PSM, but I think it has to do with FX facilities, which would not exist at Brunswick

Sadly, Brunswick NAS will be shutting down soon. The first squadron to leave, left a few weeks ago. The others, by the end of 2009. The base could eventually evolve into a PSM example, but I wouldn't expect to see anything other than GA aircraft there for a few years if it remains an active civil airfield.

It's a shame the Navy built brand new ATC facilities there not so long ago, as well as a new hanger that's currently the only one at an active Orion base capable of servicing and housing the new P-8's (737) that will be replacing them.

If NHZ was only a tad bit closer, id say it would make a great replacement for PWM

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 106): BOS would work if they has more of a "hub" presence.

The purpose of those flights would be so that they could connect to TATL (and possibly TPAC) flights. The domestic flights are already there. But if they want to get to JFK or EWR, they have to go through New York City itself via the Bronx and Queens to JFK and either through the Bronx and Manhattan or over the Tappan Zee Bridge and down the Palisades Throughway to get to EWR. I agree with you about the slots in NYC but BOS has several TATL flights from each alliance and can connect pax easily through the codeshares. US could fly from Bridgeport or HVN to BOS and connect to LH there instead of sending them down to PHL, and an HPN-BOS flight on any airline would do fine.

These people can also just drive to BDL, since it's so close, but for some reason it hassn't been working all that well.

BTW they are building a new terminal on Block Island. I wonder how many people fly out of there, since only one airline serves it.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 109): BTW they are building a new terminal on Block Island. I wonder how many people fly out of there, since only one airline serves it.

Its a terminal for general aviation also, Westerly, RI recently completed a similar small terminal

Both airports see just under 10,000 annual enplanements (20,000 passengers)

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 109): The purpose of those flights would be so that they could connect to TATL (and possibly TPAC) flights. The domestic flights are already there. But if they want to get to JFK or EWR, they have to go through New York City itself via the Bronx and Queens to JFK and either through the Bronx and Manhattan or over the Tappan Zee Bridge and down the Palisades Throughway to get to EWR.

BOS is way under estimated as an international transfer airport. If I didn't already live here, I would use BOS over NYC/PHL/IAD any day. Sure you may have to walk outside a little but in bad weather days like the ones we had just last week or the series of bad thunderstorms that we had last Summer, you're much more likely to make your flight here in BOS than at any of the other northeast airports.

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 103): Even if the first checked bag was free and then charge for the second.

I specifically booked my return flight home on Air Canada even though Continental was technically cheaper. However, they become more expensive when you factor in the charges for bags. As much as I would have liked to have flown with them, I'm not going to pay more in extra charges when a competitor can offer give the same service without charging for it.

LH423

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 111): BOS is way under estimated as an international transfer airport. If I didn't already live here, I would use BOS over NYC/PHL/IAD any day. Sure you may have to walk outside a little but in bad weather days like the ones we had just last week or the series of bad thunderstorms that we had last Summer, you're much more likely to make your flight here in BOS than at any of the other northeast airports.

Tell me about it! The most difficult transfer is probably Terminal B to Terminal E, although I haven't seen how easy the E to A transfer is and if it's idiot-proof. I've heard it's easy though. And E to C is just a short walk down the sidewalk, not difficult to do at all, especially if you know where you're going.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 113): Tell me about it! The most difficult transfer is probably Terminal B to Terminal E, although I haven't seen how easy the E to A transfer is and if it's idiot-proof. I've heard it's easy though. And E to C is just a short walk down the sidewalk, not difficult to do at all, especially if you know where you're going.

E to A and E to C are the easiest of all. Just a straight shot across the bridge. The last US airport I transfered at was PHL and I found the walk there a lot longer than anything you'd ever have to walk at BOS. E to B is walkable is you know the airport but for newbies it's best to just take the transfer bus. I hear that LH does a fair share of transfers at BOS and I suspect their primary domestic partner here would be US given how small a presence UA has here.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 114): E to A and E to C are the easiest of all. Just a straight shot across the bridge

E to A is easy, but E to C I believe requires you to walk outside. A to E isn't much further than A check in to Gate A-13

Pretty much Terminal C is the only one that is a little bit of a hassle to anywhere

Update on the PVD intermodal station... the concrete pilings for the skywalk are almost ready to be poured, the foundations ahve been dug. The fountation for the car rental facility and both parking garages are nearly complete with some steel starting to show up on site. I'd expect significant vertical progress in the next few months.

I've also heard that several items have been coming in "significantly" under budget because of the economy. With people strugglingto find work, this project has the potential to be early and underbudget.

Actually, I know how easy the transfer from E to C is, as I've used the same parking lot for travelling to both. There is a page on LH's website that instructs pax to go out the door at E, turn left, and follow the sidewalk to the entrance to C when connecting to the B6 flights. EI just describes it as being a walk. My question is if you guys think transfering between terminals at Logan is idiot-proof (as in having enough signage for people doing the transfer).

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 115): Pretty much Terminal C is the only one that is a little bit of a hassle to anywhere

Are you sure you don't mean B? Sure C to A is a hassle, and I don't know about C to B, but B to E looks hard to do and I don't know about B to A. Of course, since all terminals except E are domestic, I don't think anyone is transferring between A, B, and C, so to me it's kinda moot for transfering to be easily done. It's connecting to E that is important, since DL's flights in A, AA and US's flights in B, and B6's flights in C all connect to flights in E.

So with preclearance facilities coming online soon in SNN and DUB, anyone think EI will move to C? It makes sense since it will eliminate anyone going through customs twice and allow pax to easily transfer to B6 and UA.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 117): Are you sure you don't mean B? Sure C to A is a hassle, and I don't know about C to B, but B to E looks hard to do and I don't know about B to A.

E or C and vice versa is easy IF you are already within security. If not you have to take the sidewalk and walk outside. E arrivals would require security screening at the next departing terminal and E departures would require re-checking in at the counter which is why im assuming it'd be outside security for the connecting. I had time to kill back in Nov before a flight and walked between all the terminals (A-E-C-B-A)

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 118): E or C and vice versa is easy IF you are already within security.

I know that they are connected (there is a bridge at the AirTran gates) but that is to the part of C that was D. You can even hear the boarding calls at those gates. But you have to leave security to get to the rest of C. Once you leave customs, you're outside security anyway, so that bridge doesn't do much good for that.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 116): I've also heard that several items have been coming in "significantly" under budget because of the economy. With people strugglingto find work, this project has the potential to be early and underbudget.

I have been riding by occasionally, you can see progress. I guess we can thank the tanking economy if it does come in under budget. Not the normal course of events here. Rarely heard words, on time and under budget on most public contracts.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 117): My question is if you guys think transfering between terminals at Logan is idiot-proof (as in having enough signage for people doing the transfer).

Yes and No  
Massport wants tranfering passengers to take the shutle buses so from that perspective it seems pretty easy and straight forward: walk to the curb, hop on/hop off. Easy.
However for walking between terminals, no, it's definitely not idiot-proof.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 121): Massport wants tranfering passengers to take the shutle buses so from that perspective it seems pretty easy and straight forward: walk to the curb, hop on/hop off. Easy. However for walking between terminals, no, it's definitely not idiot-proof.

For transferring between B and E, that makes sense. But they should be able to just put up signs for people walking from A or C to E. It would be a lot cheaper than a bus. How often does the 11 bus run? The site doesn't say.

Can EI's planes fit in Terminal C? I know that Terminal D had Alitalia and now AirTran. If they can put two EI planes in C, that will be good, since they can connect pax in the same terminal and free up gate space for use by other airlines. It's to bad they haven't built a new way from what was D to the rest of C without leaving security, because FL can't connect any pax here (if they do, but that's unlikely) and it would be a good place to put EI.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 122): Can EI's planes fit in Terminal C?

I don't see why not. SN, SR, and AF have all operated flights in recent years out of Terminal C. There are only a few gates that are capable. I suppose, given EI's new relationship with B6, they could be accommodated on their pier. Then again, EI is now cooperating with UA, so they could go there as well. When UA did work on their pier they reconfigured a gate or two to be capable of accepting the 777. So, I suppose an A330 would fit as well.

However, EI won't be able to move until DUB and SNN have customs at their preclearance facilities. As of now, they only have immigration requiring that the arrival in the US be at a terminal with FIS facilities for customs.

LH423

Quoting LH423 (Reply 123): I don't see why not. SN, SR, and AF have all operated flights in recent years out of Terminal C.

Oh, yeah, I forgot that! Matter of fact, I flew on Air France from Terminal C in 2003. They used the gates to the right after you go through security (UA's gates were on the left, at least they were in 2004). As long as you won't have to go through security again (and hopefully you won't), it shouldn't be an issue which gate they use. I'd prefer it being on B6's pier since that is where connecting pax will go anyway (EI already serves IAD, ORD, and SFO, so why stop in BOS? Pax going to DEN and LAX are the only ones who might connect).

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 124): They used the gates to the right after you go through security

Yeah, that was when they still were using 767s. Once they switched to the Airbus they were moved to the end of the Delta (now jetBlue) pier. They even once got a 744 substitution (long before the 744 was a regular on the route) and somehow managed to get it into the gates in C, but I believe an adjacent gate needed to be taken out of service and the nose was apparently just a couple of feet away from the windows.

LH423

SR's 747's operated from the far corner gate at terminal C for many years so if a 747 can get in there, surely an A330 won't have a problem.