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Topic: SIA In '83
Username: Kaitak
Posted 2009-01-10 11:49:55 and read 6259 times.

Last year, as most of us know, SIA introduced its first A380, 9V-SKA. It wasn't the first aircraft to carry that registration, because in 1983, SIA introduced its first 747-300 - dubbed "Big Top"; the first aircraft was registered 'SKA (although most of the others carried US registrations).

So, what was SIA like in 1983? Changi had just been opened, two years before, but the fleet consisted of 747-200s, the first -300s, A300s, 727s and DC10s; only two of the latter were operated and the fleet was being wound down; these aircraft were sold to Biman, with which some still operate.

The DC10s operated 14 flights a week - Dhahran (2 w), Madras (hadn't yet been renamed Chennai)(3 w), HKG via BKK (Daily), SEL via TPE (2 w).

Sydney and MEL shared a daily 747-200; twice nonstop to MEL (via SYD other days).

The only other Australian service was to PER (with a 3 w. 747); BNE was not yet served. New Zealand was served by 2 weekly nonstop 747s.

In the US, HNL was served as an en route stop to SFO (which was served 5 wkly, also via HKG). LAX had 5 flights a week, a 3 weekly one stop (via NRT, still operated) and 2 weekly via TPE and HNL.

Asian regional routes - Kuala Lumpur, Bandar Seri B, Jakarta, Medan and Penang - were served by a mixture of A300s and 727s; the KUL route was also served by MAS using its A300s and 737-200s. No routes to South Africa were operated, nor to any Indian ocean destinations (MLE or MRU).

The People's Republic of China was not yet served - neither PEK or SHA, let alone CAN or Hangzhou.

In Japan, only Osaka (ITM) and NRT were served; ITM got 2 wkly nonstops (both continuing to NRT) and 2 via TPE. In addition to 2 via ITM and the three nonstops mentioned above, NRT also had a two stop (via HKG and TPE) 747, daily.

Flights to Europe were almost all either two or three stop services. London had a daily service which was 1 stop (via DXB, AUH or BOM) and 2 two stops (via DXB, ZRH or AUH, BRU). I won't go into all of the flights individually, but AMS had a THREE stop flight 4 times a week, the other two being two stops. The first nonstops from LHR to SIN had not yet happened and, due to the winds, it would only be eastbound for the first few years.

Had I the time, it would be interesting to compare growth rates on some of the routes over that 26 year period, but on some, it is pretty huge.

Topic: RE: SIA In '83
Username: Ex_SQer
Posted 2009-01-10 17:25:43 and read 5909 times.

I guess I can contribute some knowledge here in terms of cities served (pax service only). Listing actual routes served and also the cargo services would take a lot of research because they were constantly changing, especially the European services which could have as many as four sectors. SQ went through a lot of growth in terms of cities served in 1984 to 1987, and then a good spurt again in the early 1990s. I'll add some examples of capacity growth later if I have the time.

Cities served in 1983 (passenger service only) that are still served today:
Kuala Lumpur (some flights currently operated by MI)
Penang
Brunei (some flights currently operated by MI)
Jakarta
Bangkok
Manila
Hong Kong
Taipei
Seoul
Osaka
Tokyo
Perth
Melbourne
Sydney
Auckland
Colombo
Chennai
Mumbai
Abu Dhabi
Dubai
Athens
Rome
Zurich
Frankfurt
Copenhagen
Amsterdam
London
Paris
Los Angeles
San Francisco

Scheduled Pax Destinations Operated in 1983 not flown today:
Medan (currently operated by MI)
Dhahran
Bahrain
Brussels
Honolulu

Scheduled Pax Destinations Started Post-1983:
Langkawi (currently operated by MI)
Kuantan (handed over to MI and subsequently discontinued)
Kuching (currently operated by MI)
Kota Kinabalu (currently operated by MI)
Surabaya (currently operated by MI)
Denpasar
Ho Chi Minh City
Hanoi
Cebu (currently operated by MI)
Macau (terminated; operated briefly by MI)
Kaohsiung (currently operated by MI)
Beijing
Shanghai
Guangzhou
Nanjing
Hangzhou (taken over from MI and subsequently terminated)
Fukuoka
Nagoya
Sendai (terminated)
Hiroshima (terminated)
Cairns (terminated)
Darwin (terminated)
Brisbane
Adelaide
Christchurch
Male
Dhaka
Kathmandu (currently operated by MI)
Kolkata
Delhi
Ahmedabad
Hyderabad
Bangalore
Amritsar (soon to be terminated)
Karachi
Lahore
Jeddah
Riyadh
Kuwait (previously operated in the 70s but discontinued by 1983)
Cairo
Mauritius (terminated)
Johannesburg
Cape Town
Durban (terminated)
Istanbul
Moscow
Milan
Malta (terminated)
Barcelona
Madrid (terminated)
Berlin (terminated)
Manchester
Toronto (terminated)
Vancouver
New York JFK
Newark
Chicago (terminated)
Houston
Las Vegas (terminated)

Topic: RE: SIA In '83
Username: Gardermoen
Posted 2009-01-10 18:15:40 and read 5826 times.

I remember my dad gave me a menu on one of his 1983 SQ flights, routing of AMS-ZRH-AUH-CMB-SIN.

Living in Hong Kong at the time, I'm certain the SIN-BKK-HKG service flew onwards to NRT.

Topic: RE: SIA In '83
Username: Zizou
Posted 2009-01-10 21:03:02 and read 5624 times.

I used to fly SQ on the DXB-CMB route regularly with the folks, using a mix of -200s and -300s

Topic: RE: SIA In '83
Username: Zeke
Posted 2009-01-10 21:23:52 and read 5574 times.

SQ/MI/SQF 1983 route maps



Topic: RE: SIA In '83
Username: Cricket
Posted 2009-01-10 21:52:52 and read 5512 times.

The second map is from 83? Looking at India there is DEL and CCU listed? Looks more like a late eighties map.

Topic: RE: SIA In '83
Username: Ikramerica
Posted 2009-01-10 22:03:14 and read 5485 times.



Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
So, what was SIA like in 1983?

Worth ditching your family to take. Ask my Dad…

Quoting Ex_SQer (Reply 1):
Cities served in 1983 (passenger service only) that are still served today:

Are you sure JFK was not served in 1983? If so, it must have started in early 1984, because my Dad flew it (JFK-Europe-(middle east?)-SIN) right after the Olympics while the rest of the family went the other direction on PA (JFK-SFO-HKG-SIN).

Topic: RE: SIA In '83
Username: Gardermoen
Posted 2009-01-10 22:03:53 and read 5485 times.

Come to think of it, the second map look circa 2003, around SARS/Gulf War time.
Brussels was still on line then, and Bangalore is included - so I'm sure this is around 2003.

Topic: RE: SIA In '83
Username: SIN_SQ
Posted 2009-01-10 22:07:56 and read 5477 times.

Yes this is right. This was published in early 2000. Not in 1983.

The best clue was birth of SilkAir - only in 1992. SilkAir was first started off as Tradewinds in 1989.

Topic: RE: SIA In '83
Username: SIN_SQ
Posted 2009-01-10 22:18:06 and read 5450 times.

Quoting Ex_SQer (Reply 1):

SIN-Kuala Lumpur - now 4 flights by SilkAir and 4 flights by SIA

SIN-Kuwait flight - will resume from 15th March 2009 via Abu Dhabi on B777-200

[Edited 2009-01-10 22:19:26]

Topic: RE: SIA In '83
Username: SQ772
Posted 2009-01-10 22:48:47 and read 5404 times.

What was the service like in all 3 classed back in 1983? For sure, F class still had what they call as 'trolley service' that some airlines still adopt today. What about Business Class? I'm also curious what was Y class like back in the early 80s? When did menus start appearing in Y? What was a typical service like?

If anyone has photos of SQ's cabin interior, meals from the early 80s, I would be eternally grateful...  Smile

Topic: RE: SIA In '83
Username: Zeke
Posted 2009-01-10 22:49:54 and read 5400 times.



Quoting Cricket (Reply 5):
The second map is from 83?

No, my mistake, well spotted.

Quoting SIN_SQ (Reply 8):
Yes this is right. This was published in early 2000. Not in 1983.

The best clue was birth of SilkAir - only in 1992. SilkAir was first started off as Tradewinds in 1989.

Tradewinds Charters was around in the 1970s, Tradewinds Airlines in the late 1980s. But you are right the map is not 1983, the VS code share was a more recent event, and flights to Johannesburg, Cape Town, and Durban started in the 1990s.

Topic: RE: SIA In '83
Username: Ex_SQer
Posted 2009-01-11 00:31:07 and read 5263 times.



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
Are you sure JFK was not served in 1983?

JFK started 1992, six flights weekly, three via BRU and three via FRA. SQ had no transatlantic service in 1983.

Topic: RE: SIA In '83
Username: Directorguy
Posted 2009-01-11 01:22:48 and read 5159 times.

The route that interests me the most was the SIN-DHA route. My dad flew DHA-SIN a few times in the 80s and 90s, other times he'd start from AUH, BAH or DXB or fly Sabena's AUH-SIN

Topic: RE: SIA In '83
Username: Gardermoen
Posted 2009-01-11 02:01:07 and read 5100 times.

The route that interests me the most was the SIN-DHA route. My dad flew DHA-SIN a few times in the 80s and 90s, other times he'd start from AUH, BAH or DXB or fly Sabena's AUH-SIN


DHA at some point was flown via BOM and KHI respectively I remember , sometime in the early 90s?

Some other "memorable" routes they flew were:

SIN-BOM-AMS
SIN-BOM-MAN
SIN-CMB-VIE-AMS
SIN-CMB-BRU-AMS
SIN-CMB-AUH
SIN-CMB-MRU
SIN-MRU-JNB
SIN-BKK-BAH-ROM-AMS
SIN-BKK-CAI-AMS
SIN-KHI-ZRH/FRA/CPH?
SIN-MLE-ZRH-BRU

Topic: RE: SIA In '83
Username: Directorguy
Posted 2009-01-11 02:49:51 and read 5024 times.

Thanks....those were the days! Of course, the B744 and the A340 and the 777 series all eliminated the multi-legs, which were the order of the day. This made travelling more convenient for many, but people are sadly no longer able to fly on different airlines that connected two different regions together (e.g. CAI-AMS on SQ had been replaced by direct SIN-AMS).

Topic: RE: SIA In '83
Username: Trex8
Posted 2009-01-11 05:14:50 and read 4583 times.



Quoting SQ772 (Reply 10):
When did menus start appearing in Y? What was a typical service like?

they had menus in the mid 70s. back then I don't think there was much difference between SQ, CX, JL and CI in Y.(and all were far better than PA and TW)

Topic: RE: SIA In '83
Username: BOACVC10
Posted 2009-01-11 08:44:19 and read 3344 times.

When did SIN-DAC service start and what was the original aircraft assigned to the route ? As mentioned earlier

Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
and DC10s; only two of the latter were operated and the fleet was being wound down; these aircraft were sold to Biman, with which some still operate.

There was a single BG (Bangladesh Biman) B-707 crash incident at SIN (possibly Changi) and the airframe was written off. Was there any relation to the B-707 crash and the purchase of the DC-10 from SQ since they happened at the same time ?

Does anyone know the historical key figures and dates in Singapore-Bangladesh bi-lateral air traffic negotations ? I ask since the SIN-DAC route is almost always 100% load factor due to ex-NMEA labour traffic and business travellers, compared to BG service which is poor. Also, there is a lot of SIN-BKK-DAC traffic via TG, as SIN is the desired hub, not BKK for many import / export managers. I'm surprised that SQ would not consider sending more frequency to DAC, as I am sure the market would cater to it (look at GF, EK service to DAC)

There still exists a great great demand for USA to Bangladesh traffic IMHO, which is not served very well. If the A345 or similar aircraft now in service Singapore-USA were put into service as Y only from US/North East, US/Central to Bangladesh, I am sure with 800,000 or so odd US based pax families visiting "on average" once yearly from US to Bangladesh they could fill it up. Currently the going rates for short-term tickets are $2500-$3500 and long-term purchase might (repeat, might) get you to $1500-$1800 (JFK-DAC or similar routing).

Topic: RE: SIA In '83
Username: Ikramerica
Posted 2009-01-11 09:13:04 and read 3170 times.



Quoting Ex_SQer (Reply 12):
JFK started 1992, six flights weekly, three via BRU and three via FRA. SQ had no transatlantic service in 1983.

Then it must have been a BA to SQ connection at LHR?

Topic: RE: SIA In '83
Username: TommyBP251b
Posted 2009-01-11 09:15:06 and read 3170 times.



Quoting Ex_SQer (Reply 1):
Berlin (terminated)

When was that? What aircraft was used?

Topic: RE: SIA In '83
Username: Ex_SQer
Posted 2009-01-11 20:45:12 and read 2143 times.



Quoting BOACVC10 (Reply 17):
When did SIN-DAC service start and what was the original aircraft assigned to the route ?

1986, A310, routing SIN-DAC-CCU-SIN, twice weekly.

Quoting TommyBP251b (Reply 19):
When was that? What aircraft was used?

I think September 1990, service suspended ended 1998. I think the first aircraft used was the 743, switching to the 744. Airport served was SXF, twice weekly. Different routings were used initially but the one that stuck was SIN-ZRH-SXF vv.

Service to SXF was primarily started as a defensive move. At that time, the Singapore-West Germany bilateral limited Singapore to a daily FRA service, and they were trying to negotiate rights to a second point (DUS) in the then-West Germany, but to no avail (the German side would allow access to DUS only if SQ gave up frequencies to FRA). Singapore did have a bilateral with East Germany that allowed two flights per week. So, when the two Germanys reunited, SQ scrambled to start service to SXF in order to use up all allowable frequencies.

Topic: RE: SIA In '83
Username: Ryanair!!!
Posted 2009-01-11 21:25:04 and read 2087 times.



Quoting BOACVC10 (Reply 17):
There was a single BG (Bangladesh Biman) B-707 crash incident at SIN (possibly Changi) and the airframe was written off. Was there any relation to the B-707 crash and the purchase of the DC-10 from SQ since they happened at the same time ?

The BG 707 crashed beyond the airport's perimeter in Paya Lebar, not Changi (which was still probably a swamp in lieu of reclamation).

The FE turned the engine off by accident after take off and it could not be restarted in time.

Topic: RE: SIA In '83
Username: BOACVC10
Posted 2009-01-11 22:22:13 and read 1984 times.



Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 21):
The FE turned the engine off by accident after take off and it could not be restarted in time.

How is that ever possible ? Was it only one engine or more than one ?

Topic: RE: SIA In '83
Username: Ryanair!!!
Posted 2009-01-11 23:40:48 and read 1883 times.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19800403-0

I was told this accident caused Boeing to put safety caps onto the engine switches after that.

Topic: RE: SIA In '83
Username: Gardermoen
Posted 2009-01-12 01:05:50 and read 1823 times.

Dhaka started in 86 and it was twice weekly, one went SIN-DAC-CCU-SIN, the other went the other way around. The in 87 it changed when KTM was added:
1 went SIN-DAC-CCU-SIN, the other SIN-DAC-KTM, and the other SIN-CCU-KTM. For most of the time though it was SIN-DAC-KTM, up until KTM was dropped. I flew SIN-DAC a few times and on the way up there the plane was never reallly full. Loads on the way back were never full either, so maybe I was just lucky. Most of the pax appeared to Bangladeshi workers in Singapore, then Bangaldeshis living in the US making SIN connections, and then the rest were expatriate traffic based in Bangladesh.


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