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Topic: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: 9252fly
Posted 2009-03-05 13:38:33 and read 10928 times.

It's obvious that the combination of DL and NW makes them very strong in the southeast,northeast and central regions. My question is what makes SLC an ideal hub for DL and does that exclude them from trying to establish another hub in the west? I recall a thread about DL and AS renewing their marketing agreement,does that mean they are content with that and see no need to expand out west as AS has hubs on the coast? As an added question,what are the possibilities of DL being more aggressive on trans-border routes out of SLC considering it's mostly RJ routes?

[Edited 2009-03-05 13:42:16]

Topic: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Jkudall
Posted 2009-03-05 14:09:13 and read 10820 times.



Quoting 9252fly (Thread starter):
My question is what makes SLC an ideal hub for DL and does that exclude them from trying to establish another hub in the west?

1. From a geographic standpoint, SLC is a good location to have a western hub. Having it on the coast would make connecting more difficult and time consuming. You can offer many more options to customers, more conventiently, because of SLC's geographic location.

2. The hub works and has worked for them (DL) for over twenty years and many more years before that with Western. There are a lot of loyal DL flyers in SLC.

3. The cost of operating out of SLC is relatively innexpensive compared to other airports, and local and state officials have offered many incentives to the airline.

4. The airport is able to maintain smooth operations and on-time flights almost every day which prevents irregular operations for the airline and saves them a lot of money. SLC was the number one on-time airport in 2008 and had the fewest cancellations of US airports.

4. The airport has a good source of O/D traffic to compliment connecting traffic. UT is the fastest growing state in the country (as of last year) and is one of the few locations in the country right now which is still seeing a relatively strong economy when compared to the rest of the country. Year-round tourism helps keep demand strong. DL sees all of these things as a reason for potential growth.

As for the aggressiveness of trans-border operations, I think it is pretty clear DL has already been very agressive the last few years on expanding international operations from SLC.

MEX, GDL, SJD, PVR, CUN, YEG, YWC, and CDG were all added routes within the last 4-5 years and NRT starts this June.

Topic: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Haggis79
Posted 2009-03-05 14:13:34 and read 10795 times.



Quoting Jkudall (Reply 1):
From a geographic standpoint, SLC is a good location to have a western hub. Having it on the coast would make connecting more difficult and time consuming.

isn't that only true for flights to/from further east than SLC? I can see that SLC makes a great hub for, say, a OMA-LAX connection.... but when travelling from the west coast to the west coast (maybe PDX-BUR) it's a little out of the way, isn't it?

Topic: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Jkudall
Posted 2009-03-05 14:23:01 and read 10736 times.



Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 2):
isn't that only true for flights to/from further east than SLC? I can see that SLC makes a great hub for, say, a OMA-LAX connection.... but when travelling from the west coast to the west coast (maybe PDX-BUR) it's a little out of the way, isn't it?

While there is a lot of west-coast to west-coast connecting traffic through SLC on routes like you mention, most of the connecting traffic is east to west or inter-west routes like DEN, BIL, BOI, COS, ABQ, etc. to the west coast.

Most passengers flying only on the west coast can be served under the AS code-share which is basically what it was intended for. But again, there are still many passengers who connect via SLC who are flying from places like SEA or PDX to places in SoCal.

Topic: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: YVR1968
Posted 2009-03-05 15:24:41 and read 10481 times.



Quoting Jkudall (Reply 1):
As for the aggressiveness of trans-border operations, I think it is pretty clear DL has already been very agressive the last few years on expanding international operations from SLC.

MEX, GDL, SJD, PVR, CUN, YEG, YWC, and CDG were all added routes within the last 4-5 years and NRT starts this June.

Well to put this into perspective, YEG is down from 2 daily to 1 daily CRJ and (I think you meant) YXC is a seasonal 3x per week CRJ as well. Yes, the CDG, Mexican and NRT flights are substantial routes, but the Canadian ones you mentioned are really a blip and actually an overall decrease with YEG dropping to only 1 daily, and it appears that the YXC flights will not continue next year, as no flights showing in res systems.

Topic: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Jkudall
Posted 2009-03-05 15:31:36 and read 10444 times.



Quoting YVR1968 (Reply 4):
Well to put this into perspective, YEG is down from 2 daily to 1 daily CRJ and (I think you meant) YXC is a seasonal 3x per week CRJ as well. Yes, the CDG, Mexican and NRT flights are substantial routes, but the Canadian ones you mentioned are really a blip and actually an overall decrease with YEG dropping to only 1 daily, and it appears that the YXC flights will not continue next year, as no flights showing in res systems.

Yes I meant YXC, not YWC. Next winter's schedule is no where near complete so it is much too early to speculate on YXC's future. As for YEG, the only reason it was dropped to 1 is because of the merger. It makes more sense to connect YEG passengers going to the east coast through MSP than SLC. Still, Int'l traffic through SLC has increased each year of the last 5, and with the NRT flight, you will see another huge increase this year.

Topic: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: YVR1968
Posted 2009-03-05 15:56:20 and read 10352 times.

Quoting Jkudall (Reply 5):

I agree with you, definitely those long haul routes will benefit SLC.

Also, forgot to mention Delta Connection also dropped YWG and YYJ. And YYC is down to only 3 daily CRJ (used to be 4 daily in 2006 and 5 daily in 2005) and YVR used to see mainline SLC - now 3 daily DL*.

So the "aggressiveness" on the transborder side north of the border has actually seen more of a pullback than expansion.

[Edited 2009-03-05 16:16:45]

Topic: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: LACA773
Posted 2009-03-05 16:18:10 and read 10284 times.

How does DL do on their SLC-Mexico routes?

Topic: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Planefxr
Posted 2009-03-05 17:01:29 and read 10126 times.



Quoting LACA773 (Reply 7):
How does DL do on their SLC-Mexico routes?

CUN does very well, goes out close to full most days. MEX does pretty well considering Aeromexico also serves SLC and GDL which I think is only on Saturdays does well also.

There is also a very good chance SLC will see AMS, this could be delayed a little longer due the economy, but eventually it should happen.

Topic: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Live2fly83
Posted 2009-03-05 20:16:51 and read 9799 times.

are we forgetting LAX? i know they cut back a tad but theyve still got significant ops there

Topic: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Modesto2
Posted 2009-03-05 22:51:18 and read 9360 times.



Quoting Live2fly83 (Reply 9):
are we forgetting LAX? i know they cut back a tad but theyve still got significant ops there

DL pulled back from LAX after dropping ExpressJet's flying and mostly does hub flying with a few other destinations from LAX including MSY, MCO, FLL, TPA, LIH, KOA, HNL, OGG and a few more. But their LAX operation is certainly no hub, despite additional international expansion with GRU and SYD.

Topic: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: SLCUT2777
Posted 2009-03-06 00:18:15 and read 9196 times.



Quoting YVR1968 (Reply 6):
I agree with you, definitely those long haul routes will benefit SLC.

Also, forgot to mention Delta Connection also dropped YWG and YYJ. And YYC is down to only 3 daily CRJ (used to be 4 daily in 2006 and 5 daily in 2005) and YVR used to see mainline SLC - now 3 daily DL*.

So the "aggressiveness" on the transborder side north of the border has actually seen more of a pullback than expansion.

I'm not totally sure if a pull back is correct, or if a re-alignment is better put. The biggest drawback for DL operations in SLC is terminal and concourse space. The airport as it is currently configured is designed to handle only 10 million or so passengers a year, and for roughly 4 years strait it has been double that number.
As for trans-border routes north, YVR and YYC continue with multiple frequencies with rumors of at least one of such being returned to mainline. YWG didn't work since the NW brand is better known than the DL brand. With the two merged, I could see the combined carrier trying YWG once again in the not to distant future along with possibly YQR and YXE. With YXC being a seasonal that will end this month, it isn't entirely out of the realm of possibility that YYJ could return at some future date. Also service to YQL (Lethbridge) has been rumored since SLC has a larger FIS desk and can take more Canadian airports lacking pre-clearance to U.S. destinations.
I also think you'll see SLC-AMS service perhaps as early as June 2010 and LGW or LHR service sooner rather than later. Also LH has had preliminary discussions with SLC about possible future service to FRA.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: YVR1968
Posted 2009-03-06 02:57:49 and read 8999 times.



Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 11):

All I was trying to point out was that to call the transborder "expansion" as aggressive is clearly not the case. Call it what you want, but the facts are this: Delta flights from SLC to Western Canada have been reduced from about 13-14 daily to 7 daily and from 6 destinations to only 3 destinations. To call this an "aggressive expansion" is not the case. Perhaps to Mexico and overseas international, sure, there is an expansion. What Delta does in the future can be discussed and speculated, but as of now, Delta has clearly pulled back on Canadian flights out of SLC, period.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: SLCUT2777
Posted 2009-03-06 06:26:20 and read 8495 times.



Quoting YVR1968 (Reply 12):
What Delta does in the future can be discussed and speculated, but as of now, Delta has clearly pulled back on Canadian flights out of SLC, period.

There are also rumors that if an AS merger is consummated down the line that they could dump trans-border operations to Canada completely through the SLC hub. Much of what is done now could then be rerouted through SEA or MSP.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Mayor
Posted 2009-03-06 07:29:50 and read 8257 times.



Quoting Jkudall (Reply 1):
The hub works and has worked for them (DL) for over twenty years and many more years before that with Western.

Actually, Western didn't make SLC a hub until about '82, then DL took over in '87.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2009-03-06 07:53:55 and read 8124 times.



Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 13):
There are also rumors that if an AS merger is consummated down the line that they could dump trans-border operations to Canada completely through the SLC hub.

When you have an existing station (in Canada or otherwise), the marginal cost of a flight or two to SLC is pretty low. If there's demand, they won't dump Canadian destinations just because they're served from another hub. Obviously, if there's only demand for service to one hub, that's a different story.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Zonks
Posted 2009-03-06 08:31:42 and read 7951 times.



Quoting Jkudall (Reply 3):
But again, there are still many passengers who connect via SLC who are flying from places like SEA or PDX to places in SoCal.

Really? I live in PDX and not I or anyone I know would fly a couple hours out of their way to SLC just to connect to airports in Southern California. Why would we when we have healthy competition along the West Coast between UA, AS/QX, WN and to a lesser extent VX and B6? You're correct in saying that AS serves a function for DL in terms of flying passengers between Washington, Oregon and California but frankly, to suggest that someone directly on the West Coast would fly to SLC to connect is flat out false.

A large part of West Coast flying is strictly point to point, especially with all of the major cities (SEA, PDX, SFO, SMF, OAK, SJC, LAX, BUR, SNA, SAN) and the smaller cities are served through places like SEA, SFO, PDX, LAX and so forth. In order for DL to capture any of the West Coast traffic on its own metal, it would need to fly point to point between the major cities. SLC will not cut it as a connection option for West Coast flying.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Flyb
Posted 2009-03-06 08:37:35 and read 7917 times.



Quoting Jkudall (Reply 5):


Quoting YVR1968 (Reply 4):
Well to put this into perspective, yeg is down from 2 daily to 1 daily CRJ and (I think you meant) YXC is a seasonal 3x per week CRJ as well. Yes, the CDG, Mexican and NRT flights are substantial routes, but the Canadian ones you mentioned are really a blip and actually an overall decrease with yeg dropping to only 1 daily, and it appears that the YXC flights will not continue next year, as no flights showing in res systems.

Yes I meant YXC, not YWC. Next winter's schedule is no where near complete so it is much too early to speculate on YXC's future. As for yeg, the only reason it was dropped to 1 is because of the merger. It makes more sense to connect yeg passengers going to the east coast through MSP than SLC. Still, Int'l traffic through SLC has increased each year of the last 5, and with the NRT flight, you will see another huge increase this year.

Plus people hate those CRJ-100 on that YEG route. I always from the UAL or AC to get anywhere in the West to avoid the Delta Skywest route.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Goldenshield
Posted 2009-03-06 08:44:00 and read 7882 times.



Quoting Flyb (Reply 17):
Plus people hate those CRJ-100 on that YEG route.

How would they know? There are no -100's on that route.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: CompensateMe
Posted 2009-03-06 09:43:41 and read 7631 times.



Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 11):
I'm not totally sure if a pull back is correct, or if a re-alignment is better put. The biggest drawback for DL operations in SLC is terminal and concourse space. The airport as it is currently configured is designed to handle only 10 million or so passengers a year, and for roughly 4 years strait it has been double that number.

There's A LOT of airports handling significantly larger numbers of passengers than they were designed for. I've flown through SLC many times and have never thought it was crowded. Pure economics has lead to the decisions to drop the flights that DL has from SLC; DL tried to strengthen SLC & serve many "unique" destinations over the last several years, but very few survived. It'd be interesting to list all the destinations DL's added (and later dropped) from SLC over the past few years...

That said, SLC is a $1B/year revenue hub... but it just seems as if traffic flows are largely seasonal, connecting via inter-mountain destinations. The DL-NW merge will solidify DL's presence in many of these markets and strengthen SLC overall, but I doubt it will come at the expense of MSP.

And I have my doubts as to the success of SLC-NRT... it's mostly the inter-mountain destinations that are timed to connect with this flight (for example, AUS would require a multi-layover on the outbound and nearly 9-hour layover on the inbound) and I seriously doubt there's enough premium traffic to/from Asia (and those markets). Perhaps DL's counting on traffic from places like BOS, ORD, etc. to fill this flight, thus alleviating the need for much larger aircraft from ATL/DTW/MSP. It'll be interesting to watch...

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2009-03-06 12:24:29 and read 7081 times.



Quoting Zonks (Reply 16):
You're correct in saying that AS serves a function for DL in terms of flying passengers between Washington, Oregon and California but frankly, to suggest that someone directly on the West Coast would fly to SLC to connect is flat out false.

SLC does see quite a bit of western connections. A suprprising amount. If you see the luggage you will see quite a few pdx-san, pdx-lax, sea-sna and lost of smaller cities etc from former heavey delta frequent flyers in the former LAX and PDX hub markets.

Alot of people only purchase the lowest plane ticket they dont care where or how much time they loose so if deltas cheapest they will go for it. SLC is possible and many people do it in a day, but certainly not ideal for west coast connections. DEN on the other hand is too far east to be realistic or ideal for west coast connections. I personally flew DL from SAN-SEA once via SLC because it was the cheapest ticket and i needed to save money in college. It wasnt that horrible and i only cared about saving money and collecting delta miles

SEA is geographically a horribly HUB locaiton compared to SLC

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Jkudall
Posted 2009-03-06 14:02:15 and read 6757 times.

Quoting Zonks (Reply 16):
Really? I live in PDX and not I or anyone I know would fly a couple hours out of their way to SLC just to connect to airports in Southern California. Why would we when we have healthy competition along the West Coast between UA, AS/QX, WN and to a lesser extent VX and B6? You're correct in saying that AS serves a function for DL in terms of flying passengers between Washington, Oregon and California but frankly, to suggest that someone directly on the West Coast would fly to SLC to connect is flat out false.

It isn't false. I worked flights in SLC and always saw pax connecting in SLC from places like PDX and SEA going to places like LAX, SAN, SNA, etc. It wasn't uncommon at all. In fact there have been a number of thru flights such as SAN-SLC-SEA all operating under one flight number. Try booking a flight on delta.com from PDX to LAX, you will find a number of connection options in SLC.

Just because you wouldn't do it doesn't mean others don't because there are a lot of people that fly these routings. There is even an amount of connecting traffic in DEN (400 miles east) with people flying routings like that.

[Edited 2009-03-06 14:04:14]

[Edited 2009-03-06 14:06:10]

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2009-03-06 14:08:31 and read 6737 times.

I find it nuts people would detour via SLC for intra-West Coast trips. Suppose there are left over Skymiles folks but honestly do not see the appeal of adding a couple of hours to a West Coast trip when there is so much existent service at very competitive pricing.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Jkudall
Posted 2009-03-06 14:21:51 and read 6697 times.



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22):
I find it nuts people would detour via SLC for intra-West Coast trips. Suppose there are left over Skymiles folks but honestly do not see the appeal of adding a couple of hours to a West Coast trip when there is so much existent service at very competitive pricing.

You aren't adding a couple extra hours to your trip by stopping in SLC. Go to expedia, do a search for flights between PDX and SNA. Now of course there are a few non-stop options on this route, but people don't always choose non-stop flights.

I selected a random date of May 11th. The shortest you can get between PDX and SNA via SFO on UA is 4 hrs. PDX-SLC-SNA on DL is 4 hrs 27 mins. A whopping 27 minutes longer. The fare is the same, and you don't have to deal with SFO's ATC delays.

Another example, on the same day, PDX-SFO-SAN on UA is 3 hrs 50 mins, or 4 hrs 24 mins on DL via SLC.

There are a lot of connecting west coast passengers connecting in SLC. I don't understand why people think this is so inconceivable.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2009-03-06 14:48:23 and read 6620 times.

Personaly I'd take the nonstops, or use an alternate airport. Since you focused on PDX, I'd shot for the dozen+ PDX-LAX flights and reach SNA area quicker then a SFO or SLC if the nonstops were not available.

Additionaly Delta derives quite a lower yield by selling connections via SLC since it has to carry the passenger quite a bit longer distance incrasing its cost. Using your city pairs PDX-SNA is 850miles nonstop but detour via SLC is 1220miles, some 43% longer.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2009-03-06 14:51:31 and read 6611 times.



Quoting Jkudall (Reply 23):
I selected a random date of May 11th. The shortest you can get between PDX and SNA via SFO on UA is 4 hrs. PDX-SLC-SNA on DL is 4 hrs 27 mins. A whopping 27 minutes longer. The fare is the same

Flying 1/3 further for the same fare isn't very economic, or environmentally-friendly.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Jkudall
Posted 2009-03-06 15:04:59 and read 6905 times.

Okay, take the non-stop. I don't blame you. I am not trying to persuade people to not take non-stop flights. I don't care how people choose to get from point A to B.

My point was connecting in -->SLC--> over another more direct west-coast hub like -->SFO--> doesn't take that much longer and could even be quicker seeing as -->SFO--> isn't the most reliable on-time airport in the world.

I feel like no matter what I say here, someone is going to find something completely irrelevant to what I am talking about and make it an argument. I am not trying to create a feud here, I am just stating the facts.

[Edited 2009-03-06 15:07:12]

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: CompensateMe
Posted 2009-03-06 16:05:02 and read 6775 times.



Quoting Jkudall (Reply 26):
I feel like no matter what I say here, someone is going to find something completely irrelevant to what I am talking about and make it an argument. I am not trying to create a feud here, I am just stating the facts.

But the response are relevant  Smile. Most people will take the nonstop flight; the ones willing to connect are concerned with price, loyalty and/or schedule. You'd be surprised at how many people are willing to change their travel plans / accept inferior schedules just to fly nonstop. When I was commuting between ORD & DTW, I use to fly DL via CVG. It seemed insane since each flight was longer than ORD-DTW, plus there was a 35-minute layover, but it was necessary for me since DL was the only airline offering a late departure the particular day of week I was traveling (ironically, the ticket was cheaper than purchasing an ID90 at the time).

But the number of people willing to make these connections when there's existing nonstop service is small, irrelevant & not enough to impact the market. Other posters are merely pointing out that intra western connections are not that common, as plenty of direct service exists between markets that need it. That's why DL's made such a strong push to serve obscure destinations from SLC; unfortunately, they haven't been successful.

The discrepancies in service levels at SLC during the spring/summer and fall/winter are pretty large, suggesting that one of SLC's main successes has been shuttling people to intra mountain destinations seasonally. In other words, most transit passengers are flying JFK-SLC-BIL or BOS-SLC-ONT or IAD-SLC-BOI than LAX-SLC-LAS.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Mayor
Posted 2009-03-06 16:13:54 and read 6741 times.

SLC's other success has been bringing people in during ski season from the east and west coasts. Much more convenient than going to DEN to ski.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Wedgetail737
Posted 2009-03-06 19:14:11 and read 6561 times.



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 24):
Using your city pairs PDX-SNA is 850miles nonstop but detour via SLC is 1220miles, some 43% longer.

If I'm in the mood to try and get a few more miles, I'll make a quick and easy connection in PDX from SEA to some point in California.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: BigGSFO
Posted 2009-03-06 19:23:43 and read 6544 times.



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 29):
If I'm in the mood to try and get a few more miles, I'll make a quick and easy connection in PDX from SEA to some point in California.

Agreed. If I am not under time restraints and want some extra miles, I will book a connection if it's reasonably timed and priced.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Wedgetail737
Posted 2009-03-06 21:17:57 and read 6410 times.



Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 30):
Agreed. If I am not under time restraints and want some extra miles, I will book a connection if it's reasonably timed and priced.

It has been my experience that usually, but not all the time, the nonstops are the same price as the PDX connection flights...with the exception of the add-on fees.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: BigGSFO
Posted 2009-03-06 21:56:08 and read 6375 times.



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 31):
It has been my experience that usually, but not all the time, the nonstops are the same price as the PDX connection flights...with the exception of the add-on fees.

Living in SFO I am in PHX often and may times will connect via LAX for the extra segments, time permitting. I am moving to PDX and will probably do the same - via SLC, LAX, etc. - to increase the segments/miles. I don't always default to a non-stop...

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: AirlineBrat
Posted 2009-03-07 01:56:52 and read 6270 times.

I just booked a ticket on DL for early May. ACV-SLC-MSP-MCI then MCI-SLC-ACV on the return for $274. When I was researching the trip, I was surprised to find that the lowest airfare options quoted on the DL website between ACV and MCI included one connection in SLC or an additional connection in MSP. I decided to add the MSP stop going eastbound for the extra miles on my AS MP account and because it gets me into KC not long after my father gets out of work. I am glad DL started flying into ACV from SLC. That makes traveling back east quicker and less stressful. As soon as there is one cloud within 50 nautical miles of SFO, ATC delays start building up.

Quick question, does NW and DL have plane side valet baggage carts on the CRJ flights? I am used to taking advantage of QX's green ticket Ala Cart. I am flying on CRJ 100's and a CRJ 900 this trip. All my eastbound connections are under an hour and I don't want to check in my roll aboard suitcase.

[Edited 2009-03-07 02:01:18]

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Goldenshield
Posted 2009-03-07 02:14:28 and read 6259 times.



Quoting AirlineBrat (Reply 33):
Quick question, does NW and DL have plane side valet baggage carts on the CRJ flights?

Yes. DL's is pink. Not sure what NW's is. Also, it's not for baggage, but over-sized carry-ons. My roll-aboard can fit in the overhead of the -700 and -900, but not the -200; however, I check it anyhow, since I don't need it crowding the overheads.

Quoting AirlineBrat (Reply 33):
As soon as there is one cloud within 50 nautical miles of SFO, ATC delays start building up.

Or winds. But really, SFO can handle clouds. It's just when the deck goes below 1800 AGL that things start to snarl.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Wedgetail737
Posted 2009-03-07 07:52:04 and read 6092 times.



Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 32):
I am moving to PDX and will probably do the same - via SLC, LAX, etc. - to increase the segments/miles. I don't always default to a non-stop...

Welcome to the Pacific Northwest!

PDX is no SFO and you know that. But service out of PDX is sufficient enough to get you where you need to go. And if you're used to flying a lot out of SFO, PDX will seem like a breeze.

I find SEA being a pretty easy airport to deal with considering its size.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: EXAAUADL
Posted 2009-03-07 07:55:57 and read 6078 times.



Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 2):
but when travelling from the west coast to the west coast (maybe PDX-BUR) it's a little out of the way, isn't it?

actually youd be shocked hoe much traffic flying within the Pacific Time Zone actually connects in SLC.


With DL cutting smaller cities in CA plus cutting SLE, YKM, etc I think there will be less.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 25):
Flying 1/3 further for the same fare isn't very economic, or environmentally-friendly.

YAWN!!!!!!!!

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Flyb
Posted 2009-03-07 09:33:33 and read 5935 times.



Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 18):
How would they know? There are no -100's on that route


Delta 4553
CRJ 100
operated by Skywest Airlines
In-Flight Services

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Doug_Or
Posted 2009-03-07 10:03:02 and read 5886 times.



Quoting Flyb (Reply 37):
Delta 4553
CRJ 100
operated by Skywest Airlines
In-Flight Services

All of OO's CRJs are now 200s. At the end of the day it is all semantics though, a -100 is for all intents and purposes the same as a -200.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Goldenshield
Posted 2009-03-07 10:29:00 and read 5848 times.



Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 38):
All of OO's CRJs are now 200s

And have been for at least 5 years.

Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 38):
a -100 is for all intents and purposes the same as a -200.

Except one can go farther, with 5,550 more pounds. Not to mention that the engines on those SkyWest birds have a better thrust rating than the CF34s used by other carriers.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: SLCUT2777
Posted 2009-03-07 14:22:38 and read 5681 times.



Quoting Mayor (Reply 28):
SLC's other success has been bringing people in during ski season from the east and west coasts. Much more convenient than going to DEN to ski.

Keep in mind that Colorado still gets roughly 3 times the numbers of skiers that Utah gets. SLC might be close to Park City and the Cottonwood Canyons (Alta, Snowbird etc...) but many skiers will take the long haul up I-70 to Winter Park, Vail and Aspen since the drinks are much easier to come by and buy (no pun intended  duck  ) in the Centennial State as opposed to the Beehive State. But Utah is a good quick weekend getaway for many in southern California, Phoenix and other large metro areas without sufficient winter recreation.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 36):
actually youd be shocked hoe much traffic flying within the Pacific Time Zone actually connects in SLC.

You'll also be amazed at how many people actually think SLC, not to mention PHX are in the Pacific Time Zone.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: EXAAUADL
Posted 2009-03-07 15:23:28 and read 5604 times.



Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 40):
You'll also be amazed at how many people actually think SLC, not to mention PHX are in the Pacific Time Zone.

in all fairness PHX is essentially in the Pacific Time Zone 8 months of the year. I know it is MST.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: GentFromAlaska
Posted 2009-03-07 19:13:26 and read 5460 times.

The local NBC news affiliate in Nashville reported tonight DL will begin non-stop service from BNA to SLC, BOS and Charleston (presumed to be SC) beginning in April.

Although ATL is a short forty five minute flight from BNA in some aspects it will be a nice change not having to travel back to ATL, although I did enjoy the 767 service between ATL-SEA.

Assuming the new non-stop flights will be offered in both directions it should open BNA to west with one-stop or connecting service through SLC. The aircraft type to be used for the three new non-stops was not reported.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: SLCUT2777
Posted 2009-03-07 20:46:46 and read 5374 times.



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 41):
in all fairness PHX is essentially in the Pacific Time Zone 8 months of the year. I know it is MST.

Keep in mind this is why Arizona opted to not have daylight savings, and folks in the Grand Canyon State won't be moving their clocks ahead tonight. PHX wants to stay gerrymandered in any way they can to LAX, SAN and LAS. Even Utah's legislature every so often gets a proposal to pull the state out of daylights savings.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 42):
Although ATL is a short forty five minute flight from BNA in some aspects it will be a nice change not having to travel back to ATL, although I did enjoy the 767 service between ATL-SEA.

This is the logic at DL, to try and give people going from the southeastern states or upper Midwest a one stop option with a myriad of west coast airports to chose from.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Mayor
Posted 2009-03-09 10:45:40 and read 4917 times.



Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 40):
but many skiers will take the long haul up I-70 to Winter Park, Vail and Aspen since the drinks are much easier to come by and buy (no pun intended ) in the Centennial State as opposed to the Beehive State.

Well, this should eliminate that advantage..............

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=5801474

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: OA412
Posted 2009-03-09 11:35:27 and read 4848 times.



Quoting Mayor (Reply 44):
Well, this should eliminate that advantage..............

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=5801474

It's about freakin time. This should definitely help tourism into and out of SLC.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Mayor
Posted 2009-03-09 13:46:54 and read 4739 times.



Quoting OA412 (Reply 45):

Now they just need to publicize it. Looks like the church couldn't get their fingers into the decision, this time.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: YVR1968
Posted 2009-03-09 13:57:54 and read 4722 times.

SLC showed a decline in traffic in January 09 of over 10.3% compared to Jan 08. This includes a small decline in international traffic.

So it looks like despite all the talk about the increases in international services, SLC is not immune to the downturn being experienced by most airports.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Mayor
Posted 2009-03-09 15:56:28 and read 4638 times.



Quoting YVR1968 (Reply 47):
So it looks like despite all the talk about the increases in international services, SLC is not immune to the downturn being experienced by most airports.

Well, MOST of SLC's service IS domestic........just a handful of flights to Canada and Mexico, plus DL's service to CDG.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: YVR1968
Posted 2009-03-09 22:24:04 and read 4425 times.



Quoting Mayor (Reply 48):

Yes, I realise that as the stats are pretty clear from the SLC website.

My point was, somebody was going on about Delta's "aggressive international expansion" out of SLC, when clearly, the stats point in the opposite direction.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Aeroflot777
Posted 2009-03-09 23:58:22 and read 4370 times.



Quoting YVR1968 (Reply 49):
My point was, somebody was going on about Delta's "aggressive international expansion" out of SLC, when clearly, the stats point in the opposite direction.

Aggressive international expansion and decline in traffic don't really have anything to do with each other in this case. All airports around the nation and most of the world are experiencing downturns. This is because of the economy. SLC is definitely no exception, and no one is saying that it ever was. BUT, regardless of that fact, DL still has plans to expand SLC. The economy will regain strength at a certain point... and traffic will once again pick up, just like it will at any other airport. I'm not sure I'm seeing your idea portrayed well here. Expansion can happen even while numbers show a decreasing trend...

Aeroflot777

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: YVR1968
Posted 2009-03-10 00:29:41 and read 4352 times.



Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 50):

Sigh, yes, yes yes, but if you had read my earlier posts...

Quoting YVR1968 (Reply 12):
All I was trying to point out was that to call the transborder "expansion" as aggressive is clearly not the case. Call it what you want, but the facts are this: Delta flights from SLC to Western Canada have been reduced from about 13-14 daily to 7 daily and from 6 destinations to only 3 destinations. To call this an "aggressive expansion" is not the case. Perhaps to Mexico and overseas international, sure, there is an expansion. What Delta does in the future can be discussed and speculated, but as of now, Delta has clearly pulled back on Canadian flights out of SLC, period.

So the decline in international traffic furthers the evidence that the "aggressive expansion" is clearly not being evidenced in increased flying. In fact, DL has actually reduced international flying over the past few years (as I mentioned in previous posts). Yes, the world is in a decline and yes, SLC is not immune to that....didn't realise it was because of the economy? really? There also doesn't appear to be much other international expansion planned announced out of SLC via DL except for the upcoming NRT route.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Planefxr
Posted 2009-03-12 20:43:01 and read 4102 times.



Quoting YVR1968 (Reply 51):
There also doesn't appear to be much other international expansion planned announced out of SLC via DL except for the upcoming NRT route.

I would say that the upcoming route to NRT is pretty significant if not aggressive. I don't think many expected DL to fly this route, but CDG has done very well from SLC. Keep in mind that with the merger DL has more of a footprint in Canada from other hubs such as MSP and DTW. YYZ from SLC was a seasonal service and really the loads were never that impressive, so this route for example would be better served connecting through MSP or DTW IMO. I am not sure how much service there needs to be from SLC to Western Canada other than Vancouver, Calgary or Edmonton. I don't see Air Canada flying to SLC, other than occasional Jazz CRJ.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Mayor
Posted 2009-03-13 07:27:58 and read 3870 times.



Quoting YVR1968 (Reply 49):
Quoting Mayor (Reply 48):


Yes, I realise that as the stats are pretty clear from the SLC website.

My point was, somebody was going on about Delta's "aggressive international expansion" out of SLC, when clearly, the stats point in the opposite direction.

Well, my point was that with so few international flights, even the reduction of one or two is going to skew the international stats out of proportion.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Thestooges
Posted 2009-03-13 13:42:41 and read 3724 times.

I find the argument about whether connecting traffic from places like SEA and PDX to LAX, SNA and SAN make up a significant amount of DL connections in SLC incredibly interesting. Does anyone by any chance have some official numbers to show exactly what the situation is ???

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: Goldenshield
Posted 2009-03-13 18:14:35 and read 3592 times.



Quoting OA412 (Reply 45):


Quoting Mayor (Reply 44):
Well, this should eliminate that advantage..............

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=5801474

It's about freakin time. This should definitely help tourism into and out of SLC.

It's still 3.2 beer.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: SLCUT2777
Posted 2009-03-13 22:56:35 and read 3455 times.



Quoting Mayor (Reply 46):
Now they just need to publicize it. Looks like the church couldn't get their fingers into the decision, this time.

The ultra-traditionalist religious right wanna-be radicals.  irked  Most LDS Church people (like the Governor) want change thankfully.

Quoting Planefxr (Reply 52):
YYZ from SLC was a seasonal service and really the loads were never that impressive, so this route for example would be better served connecting through MSP or DTW IMO. I am not sure how much service there needs to be from SLC to Western Canada other than Vancouver, Calgary or Edmonton. I don't see Air Canada flying to SLC, other than occasional Jazz CRJ.

Now that DL has pulled the direct YYZ plug on SLC, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if AC didn't try and get back into SLC with even an E175 1x per day. It would offer many SLC-Europe travelers an alternative to JFK or ATL. Western Canada could see some expanded service to YQR, YXE and another try at YWG since all want better west coast U.S. options than they have with stops at YVR on AC and what limited service WS provides from YYC. YQL-SLC is also a real possibility since many from the extreme southern part of Alberta drive over the border to pick up flights at GTF and FCA.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: 9252fly
Posted 2009-03-13 23:09:57 and read 3420 times.



Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 56):
YQL-SLC is also a real possibility since many from the extreme southern part of Alberta drive over the border to pick up flights at GTF and FCA.

No doubt your wife will be one of the first passengers?  Smile

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: YVR1968
Posted 2009-03-13 23:33:42 and read 3396 times.



Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 56):
Now that DL has pulled the direct YYZ plug on SLC, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if AC didn't try and get back into SLC with even an E175 1x per day. It would offer many SLC-Europe travelers an alternative to JFK or ATL.

I, on the other hand, would be extremely surprised if AC did return to SLC. As for SLC-Europe, there are plenty of other options already other than JFK and ATL...what about ORD, DTW, EWR, BOS, IAD, PHL... etc?

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 56):
Western Canada could see some expanded service to YQR, YXE and another try at YWG since all want better west coast U.S. options than they have with stops at YVR on AC and what limited service WS provides from YYC.

All DL has done is actually cut services to Western Canada. Every single market from SLC - Western Canada has been either axed or seen reduced frequency/capacity over the past few years.

Quoting YVR1968 (Reply 12):
Delta flights from SLC to Western Canada have been reduced from about 13-14 daily to 7 daily and from 6 destinations to only 3 destinations.

I don't think you'll see YWG again or YQR or YXE either. There are plenty of options to get to the west coast from YWG other than AC via YVR/YYC or WS via YYC. YWG has NW via MSP and UA via ORD/DEN to get to the west coast. YXE has UA via DEN.

As for YQR just don't see the market for it.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 56):
YQL-SLC is also a real possibility since many from the extreme southern part of Alberta drive over the border to pick up flights at GTF and FCA.

Again, I highly doubt it. Very small market and given the history of DL and Western Canada lately, all they have done is contracted out of SLC.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: JAChase
Posted 2009-03-14 06:25:51 and read 3297 times.



Quoting YVR1968 (Reply 58):
YQL-SLC is also a real possibility since many from the extreme southern part of Alberta drive over the border to pick up flights at GTF and FCA.

Having worked in both airports, no they don't. Very few Canadians use either airport.

Topic: RE: DL SLC And Its West Coast Ambitions
Username: WesternA318
Posted 2009-03-14 10:47:30 and read 3174 times.



Quoting Mayor (Reply 28):
SLC's other success has been bringing people in during ski season from the east and west coasts. Much more convenient than going to DEN to ski.

Hence why the temporary influx of 757's US and UA brought in this winter....although the United birds were scheduled, US I think may have brought them in as an equipment substitution?


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