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Topic: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: VN777
Posted 2009-04-13 20:46:41 and read 8622 times.

It looks like VN will order 10 additional A321 airplanes after they received approval from the government.

Also another confirmation that VN will join Skyteam.

Source:

http://army.qdnd.vn/vietnam.economy.enews.24116.qdnd

The Prime Minister has just agreed to the proposal of Vietnam Airlines on an additional purchase of 10 passenger planes, the Airbus A321-200, during the period of 2011-2014.

Accordingly, the Vietnamese flag carrier should directly negotiate the details of the contract with the producer.

The Prime Minister also permitted Vietnam Airlines to join SkyTeam, the global airline alliance, and to prepare the necessary groundwork for the accession in 2010.

Still, he requested the carrier to follow the current principles and regulations during the membership.

The Prime Minister also agreed in principle regarding the proposal requiring that organizations and agencies funded by the state budget should use the service of Vietnam Airlines while traveling by air at home and overseas.

Source: HNM

Regards,

VN777

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: Zoom1018
Posted 2009-04-13 21:13:14 and read 8559 times.

Could that be A350-900s? The plan is to receive the first one in 2014.

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2009-04-13 21:14:03 and read 8552 times.

Thanks a lot for the link VN777. It is very interesting. Just one year before SkyTeam adds a partner in the poorly served Southeast Asian region. I have heard from a good friend of mine who travels to Southeast Asia quite often that VN onboard service is fantastic, so I am quite happy.

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: SQuared
Posted 2009-04-13 22:22:56 and read 8380 times.

Another 10 A321s? VN must really love the A321, as they keep on ordering them every few years.

Also glad to see something of a time frame for entry into Sky. I'm a bit disappointed JL couldn't persuade them to join OW, especially given the codeshares that VN has with OW carriers. But nevertheless, it's nice to see VN making some progress.

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: VN777
Posted 2009-04-13 23:42:25 and read 8247 times.



Quoting SQuared (Reply 3):
Another 10 A321s? VN must really love the A321, as they keep on ordering them every few years.

14 in service, 21 on order, 10 extra.
They are used from HAN and SGN to international destinations like: NGO, BKK, TPE, PEK, HKG, KUL, SIN and domestic to DAD, HAN, NHA, SGN.
Configured: 16C(2x2) and 168Y. Total 184. VN's A321 are one of the nicest shorthaul planes I have ever been on due to the moodlighting and generous seat pitch in Y.

Quoting SQuared (Reply 3):
I'm a bit disappointed JL couldn't persuade them to join OW, especially given the codeshares that VN has with OW carriers.

Partners of VN:
OW: CX, JL, AA.
ST: KE, CZ and possible member CI.

Its about 50-50.

VN777

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: Smi0006
Posted 2009-04-13 23:54:00 and read 8206 times.



Quoting VN777 (Reply 4):
Partners of VN:
OW: CX, JL, AA.

Plus I believe that QF is one of their codeshare partners out of Australia.
I must confess I am suprised VN send the 777 down to Melbourne I think it is three times per week I would have though that their A330s may have been better option, perhaps offering them the ability to upgrade their frequencies?

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: Terminalc
Posted 2009-04-14 11:47:51 and read 7598 times.

I suppose ST is no surprise considering the prior alliances with AF & KE, but VN is not up the the standards of any ST airline. Their inflight service can be tolerable, but their ground services are 3rd rate as are their 777 C seating poducts.

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2009-04-14 14:51:20 and read 7341 times.

This seems to be a step toward Skyteam really having a corner on the US-Vietnam market. It'll be interesting to see what happens with the DL NRT-SGN service and VN service to the States too. I can see a few scenarios

1) DL cedes the market to VN

2) VN lobbies the government of Vietnam to liberalize, permitting DL to carry local NRT-SGN pax

3) Status quo

I have no idea which of those three will happen, but I'm curious to find out.

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: Seemyseems
Posted 2009-04-14 17:02:52 and read 7070 times.

Great news! I was only reading about VN and SkyTeam earlier today.

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: WorldTraveler
Posted 2009-04-14 18:06:51 and read 6743 times.



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
1) DL cedes the market to VN

I'm not sure why you would consider that as a possibility. DL doesn't cede markets to its partners - if anything it strengthens its position by offering complementary services.

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: United1
Posted 2009-04-14 18:40:06 and read 6559 times.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):
DL doesn't cede markets to its partners - if anything it strengthens its position by offering complementary services.

JFK-CDG wasn't ceded to AF?

Now I realize JFK-CDG is part of the joint venture but if DL runs the numbers and finds out that VN running the flight is more profitable then DL flying it on its own metal you better believe its going to be ceded to VN....

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: Anonms
Posted 2009-04-14 19:12:37 and read 6398 times.



Quoting United1 (Reply 10):
Now I realize JFK-CDG is part of the joint venture but if DL runs the numbers and finds out that VN running the flight is more profitable then DL flying it on its own metal you better believe its going to be ceded to VN....

I think DL sees merit in operating to SGN with their own metal instead of the codeshare that they have with CI (which VN codeshares on as well, actually). Time will tell.

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: OA412
Posted 2009-04-14 20:03:56 and read 6198 times.



Quoting United1 (Reply 10):
JFK-CDG wasn't ceded to AF?

Not really. As you later point out, JFK-CDG is part of the joint venture so it doesn't really matter who is operating the flight.

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2009-04-14 20:08:31 and read 6172 times.



Quoting OA412 (Reply 12):
Not really. As you later point out, JFK-CDG is part of the joint venture so it doesn't really matter who is operating the flight.

Perhaps not. But, nevertheless, it demonstrates that DL does cede markets under some circumstances. I'm not aware of any market that doesn't warrant the level of service it has where they are flying with a non-immunized partner. Maybe there are examples, but I can't think of them.

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: Seemyseems
Posted 2009-04-15 11:55:10 and read 5694 times.

When VN starts to join SkyTeam, fully, will they switch DME to SVO and maybe FRA to AMS?

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: Jobalas
Posted 2009-04-15 14:13:04 and read 5559 times.

and what about Malaysia?

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: WorldTraveler
Posted 2009-04-15 14:50:53 and read 5512 times.

Quoting United1 (Reply 10):
JFK-CDG wasn't ceded to AF?

I have explained in other posts that it may make sense to reduce service if you have a joint venture because you share the revenues anyway.
With the congestion at JFK, DL decided the best use of its facilities at JFK is to operate flights that it needs to operate and allow its JV partners to operate their own flights if they are able.
Besides, DL added SLC-CDG and PIT-CDG is right around the corner followed by RDU in the near future. And JFK-LHR is operated by DL under the JV.

DL has not ceded anything to anyone and it won't with Vietnam which is a very natural Skyteam market and one where DL can work w/ VN, AF, and KE to provide a level of service to that country that no other carrier can match.

[Edited 2009-04-15 14:52:03]

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: EMB170
Posted 2009-04-15 15:07:25 and read 5454 times.

But isn't part of the problem with the JV (especially in NYC) that making connections is a royal pain sometimes? If a traveler didn't know better and flew, say, IND-JFK-CDG on DL/AF, wouldn't they have to recheck bags/change terminals/re-clear security upon arrival at JFK from IND...as DL is in T2/3 but AF is in T1?

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: Bobnwa
Posted 2009-04-15 15:25:28 and read 5413 times.



Quoting United1 (Reply 10):
Now I realize JFK-CDG is part of the joint venture but if DL runs the numbers and finds out that VN running the flight is more profitable then DL flying it on its own metal you better believe its going to be ceded to VN....

That would only make sense if it was a joint venture with VN. Having VN in ST is quite a bit different than AF and DL to CDG with their joint venture.

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: United1
Posted 2009-04-15 15:28:24 and read 5407 times.



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 19):
That would only make sense if it was a joint venture with VN. Having VN in ST is quite a bit different than AF and DL to CDG with their joint venture.

Oh agreed if is different then actually having a JV in place however as I said it all will come down to the numbers...

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: Seemyseems
Posted 2009-04-15 17:21:40 and read 5277 times.

When is TAROM and MEA going to join SkyTeam, it should be soon.

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: Vietsky
Posted 2009-04-15 19:03:51 and read 5203 times.

Wow! Congratulation to VNA. All local medias have officially announce today in Vietnam

Quoting VN777 (Reply 4):
14 in service, 21 on order, 10 extra.
They are used from HAN and SGN to international destinations like: NGO, BKK, TPE, PEK, HKG, KUL, SIN and domestic to DAD, HAN, NHA, SGN.
Configured: 16C(2x2) and 168Y. Total 184. VN's A321 are one of the nicest shorthaul planes I have ever been on due to the moodlighting and generous seat pitch in Y.

I totally agree. For short haul in the SEA region. VNA 321 product is far better than others such as Malaysia Airlines 737 and Garuda 737.

Quoting Terminalc (Reply 6):
suppose ST is no surprise considering the prior alliances with AF & KE, but VN is not up the the standards of any ST airline. Their inflight service can be tolerable, but their ground services are 3rd rate as are their 777 C seating poducts.

Yeah. The ground service of VNA is not good compare to its inflight service even though I think it is much better the previous year due to the opening of new Tan Son Nhat international airport.

For C product/service (especially in B777 and A333) for long haul, I think it is not bad at all (may be my personal view)

Vietsky

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: AirGabon
Posted 2009-04-16 00:51:11 and read 5046 times.

And don't forget the current technical cooperation between VN and AF.
In the 90s when the first A320 were delivered to VN, there was an important number of AF managers, technicians and pilots working and flying for VN.

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: Frigatebird
Posted 2009-04-16 01:33:33 and read 4997 times.



Quoting Seemyseems (Reply 14):
When VN starts to join SkyTeam, fully, will they switch DME to SVO and maybe FRA to AMS?

When VN does join Skyteam, it would certainly make sense to serve AMS as well, hopefully with 787's  cloudnine  Though I doubt they would drop FRA.

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: B742
Posted 2009-04-16 04:36:13 and read 4852 times.

Good to see that VN will be joining SkyTeam; and that SGN will become a SkyTeam hub. Perfect timing with the recent new terminal.

A bit of information of their three main hubs with links to major SkyTeam cities:

Ho Chi Minh - Tan Son Nhat
AIRFRANCE - Bangkok and Paris-CDG
China Airlines - Taipei
China Southern - Guangzhou
Delta (NWA) - Tokyo-NRT (Connecting traffic only)
Korean Air - Seoul-ICN
Vietnam AIrlines - Beijing, Busan, Guangzhou, Kaohsiung, Moscow-Domodedovo, Paris-CDG, Seoul-ICN, Taipei and Tokyo-NRT

Hanoi - Noi Bai
Aeroflot - Moscow-SVO
AIRFRANCE - Bangkok and Paris-CDG
China Airlines - Taipei
China Southern - Beijing and Guangzhou
Korean Air - Seoul-ICN and Busan
Vietnam Airlines - Beijing, Busan, Guangzhou, Moscow-DME, Paris-CDG, Seoul-ICN and Taipei

Da Nang
Korean Air - Seoul-ICN

I wonder if we will see VN shift Moscow flights from DME to SVO to co-inside with Aeroflot?!

Is a real shame not to see MH join SkyTeam; hopefuly it's the case of when not If.

***

VN is also close to receiving another A330-200; ex HB-IQP of Swiss. It will become VN-A373 and is now in full VN colours.

Rob!  wave 

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: VN777
Posted 2009-04-17 02:42:34 and read 4541 times.



Quoting Frigatebird (Reply 23):
When VN does join Skyteam, it would certainly make sense to serve AMS as well, hopefully with 787's Though I doubt they would drop FRA.

The AMS-Vietnam market is not so big. Around 40.000 Vietnamese living in the Netherlands and around 1000 Dutch living in Vietnam. It would be smarter to increase the number of fights to CDG from HAN(3 weekly now) and SGN(3-4 weekly now)

FRA/Germany is a large O&D market and goes next October from 5 to 6 weekly.

If VN opens a new destination in Europe it would be LHR or PRG according to local media.

Quoting B742 (Reply 24):

VN is also close to receiving another A330-200; ex HB-IQP of Swiss. It will become VN-A373 and is now in full VN colours.

You know how many A332 from LX will join VN? Still 2 like mentioned here on A.net?

Also wonder if these A332 will take over some 772 routes(SYD, MEL, NRT or DME) and that these 772 will be used to increase the number of flights to Europe.

VN777

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2009-04-17 05:59:38 and read 4547 times.



Quoting VN777 (Reply 25):
If VN opens a new destination in Europe it would be LHR or PRG according to local media.

Interesting. What is the reason for PRG other than it being a SkyTeam hub and the resulting OK-connecting opportunities?

On a different matter, weren't there plans for VN to fly to the U.S. with an intermediate stop in northern Asia?

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: Trex8
Posted 2009-04-17 06:07:53 and read 4530 times.

I know VN and CI codeshare and I see on their website they have a A333 configured like a CI A333 and different to the ILFC leased plane. Is this just a reflection of the codeshare or are they actually leasing a CI plane for their own use?

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: SQuared
Posted 2009-04-17 06:39:10 and read 4479 times.



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 26):
Interesting. What is the reason for PRG other than it being a SkyTeam hub and the resulting OK-connecting opportunities?

There's a somewhat sizeable Vietnamese community in the Czech Republic, so a flight to PRG would offer O&D connections, and to a lesser extent, OK connections.

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: SQ_EK_freak
Posted 2009-04-17 07:38:20 and read 4429 times.



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 2):
I have heard from a good friend of mine who travels to Southeast Asia quite often that VN onboard service is fantastic, so I am quite happy.

I don't know about that, I disagree quite strongly - my flights with them had pretty surly crew and bare minimum service on rather tatty A320s. The two times I flew the 772 with them, once had PTV's in all classes and a decent enough looking Business Class, the second time there were no PTV's and had pretty horrible looking Business Class. That said, these were all domestic flights within Vietnam and one A320 hop to BKK. So maybe their long haul service is better?

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2009-04-17 09:02:30 and read 4353 times.



Quoting SQuared (Reply 28):
There's a somewhat sizeable Vietnamese community in the Czech Republic, so a flight to PRG would offer O&D connections, and to a lesser extent, OK connections.

Thanks a lot for the info! I certainly had no idea about that.

Quoting SQ_EK_freak (Reply 29):
I don't know about that, I disagree quite strongly - my flights with them had pretty surly crew and bare minimum service on rather tatty A320s. The two times I flew the 772 with them, once had PTV's in all classes and a decent enough looking Business Class, the second time there were no PTV's and had pretty horrible looking Business Class. That said, these were all domestic flights within Vietnam and one A320 hop to BKK. So maybe their long haul service is better?

Oh, all right. I guess the conclusion is that their service is not consistent, with top of the crop crews, but also bad apples. It is a real pity, because inconsistency is what turns customers away. I hope that VN will be able to become a more customer-oriented carrier.

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: Mindscape
Posted 2009-04-17 12:20:36 and read 4237 times.



Quoting SQ_EK_freak (Reply 29):
I don't know about that, I disagree quite strongly - my flights with them had pretty surly crew and bare minimum service on rather tatty A320s. The two times I flew the 772 with them, once had PTV's in all classes and a decent enough looking Business Class, the second time there were no PTV's and had pretty horrible looking Business Class. That said, these were all domestic flights within Vietnam and one A320 hop to BKK. So maybe their long haul service is better?



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 30):
Oh, all right. I guess the conclusion is that their service is not consistent, with top of the crop crews, but also bad apples. It is a real pity, because inconsistency is what turns customers away. I hope that VN will be able to become a more customer-oriented carrier.

Please, keep in mind Vietnam opened its borders less than 20 years ago and was admitted to the WTO 2 years ago. The country is rebuilding itself and has to catch up with the ‘modern’ world after more than 30 years of war (French+US) and 15 years of pure communism. More than 50% of the population is less than 30yo and too few have a college level degree.
I don’t think it is fair or relevant to compare VN level of service with its neighbor’s carriers – TG, SQ, MH, CX, CI -. The Vietnamese are at the beginning of the learning curve process. Give us some time and hopefully VN can be on par with the rest South East Asian carriers.

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: SQ_EK_freak
Posted 2009-04-17 12:36:29 and read 4212 times.



Quoting Mindscape (Reply 31):
Please, keep in mind Vietnam opened its borders less than 20 years ago and was admitted to the WTO 2 years ago. The country is rebuilding itself and has to catch up with the ‘modern’ world after more than 30 years of war (French+US) and 15 years of pure communism. More than 50% of the population is less than 30yo and too few have a college level degree.
I don’t think it is fair or relevant to compare VN level of service with its neighbor’s carriers – TG, SQ, MH, CX, CI -. The Vietnamese are at the beginning of the learning curve process. Give us some time and hopefully VN can be on par with the rest South East Asian carriers.

Oh no no I wasn't comparing them to neighboring carriers, that as you said would be unfair. I was just giving my opinions on the 8 or 9 flights I took with them over the course of a summer.

Vietnam (and the Vietnamese people) is probably one of the most beautiful places I've been to, the people are so nice and it still amazes me to this the day the resilience of the Vietnamese people and their ability to rise above all the difficulty that they have been through to work their way to success. And don't even get me started on Vietnamese food...

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: VN777
Posted 2009-04-17 20:17:39 and read 4027 times.



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 26):
On a different matter, weren't there plans for VN to fly to the U.S. with an intermediate stop in northern Asia?

Yes, but this have been delayed now for 3 years and is now planned for October 2010 if I remember correctly. Routing will be SGN-KIX-LAX

Quoting SQ_EK_freak (Reply 29):
I don't know about that, I disagree quite strongly - my flights with them had pretty surly crew and bare minimum service on rather tatty A320s. The two times I flew the 772 with them, once had PTV's in all classes and a decent enough looking Business Class, the second time there were no PTV's and had pretty horrible looking Business Class. That said, these were all domestic flights within Vietnam and one A320 hop to BKK. So maybe their long haul service is better?

VN has 2 horrible 772(ex SU) which they use to NRT and on domestic runs. Their owned 772 with Y+ they use to CDG, FRA, MEL and SYD are in good shape.
Also their A320's and the A330(ex LTU) are not the nicest airplanes inside. But with all the new airplanes on order things will improve fast.

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2009-04-19 14:29:43 and read 3621 times.



Quoting SQuared (Reply 28):
There's a somewhat sizeable Vietnamese community in the Czech Republic, so a flight to PRG would offer O&D connections, and to a lesser extent, OK connections.

I've often seen a lot of Vietnamese folks on AF's CDG-WAW flights. PRG is a far better connecting point to other countries in eastern Europe than any destination that VN offers now.

Topic: RE: VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2009-04-19 19:27:15 and read 3514 times.

Any indication if VN will effectively launch LHR?


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