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Topic: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: UpstateDave
Posted 2009-04-28 16:57:18 and read 25940 times.

Now on Randy's Blog...

http://boeingblogs.com/randy/

Look really cool and launching with 7 customers late next year.

* FlyDubai - Dubai, United Arab Emirates
* Continental Airlines - Houston
* Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA - Fornebu, Norway
* Malaysia Airlines - Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
* TUI Travel PLC - London
* GOL Airlines - Sao Paulo, Brazil
* Lion Air - Jakarta, Indonesia

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: PGNCS
Posted 2009-04-28 17:05:54 and read 25923 times.

The improved interior width is a definite improvement, although the LED "sky" is largely marketing hype.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Virgin747lgw
Posted 2009-04-28 17:18:49 and read 25848 times.

wow didnt expect that! Anyone else think the current A320 cabin is going to need a redesign if Airbus is serious about competing with Boeing?

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: CAL764
Posted 2009-04-28 17:19:30 and read 25851 times.

Very nice product enhancement...it states CO will make a 737-800 available to Boeing for testing.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: PGNCS
Posted 2009-04-28 17:21:15 and read 25842 times.



Quoting Virgin747lgw (Reply 2):
Anyone else think the current A320 cabin is going to need a redesign if Airbus is serious about competing with Boeing?

No; the A-320 cabin is already perfectly competitive.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2009-04-28 17:25:45 and read 25814 times.



Quoting PGNCS (Reply 4):

No; the A-320 cabin is already perfectly competitive.

I think the new B cabin is a bit lighter. From a passenger comfort point of view, Boeing's is a touch prettier... That isn't going to sell a plane.

In the long run, this isn't going to radically change the on-board experience. It's going to be a long-ass flight from JFK to SFO sitting on a butt-buster of a seat, squirming to get out of there. But the overhead will be a bit pretty, and might capture my attention for an extra 30-60 seconds of the flight!

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: UpstateDave
Posted 2009-04-28 17:31:56 and read 25770 times.

Don't forget airbus came out with their enhanced interior for the A320 last year that was touted as offering weight savings over the previous models. Also has simpler ceiling, new handles and bin shape and new PSUs with new LED lights that illuminate slowly.

B6, VX, among others worldwide have it.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: BrianDromey
Posted 2009-04-28 17:38:33 and read 25705 times.



Quoting UpstateDave (Reply 7):
B6, VX, among others worldwide have it.

I think the difference is that the new Airbus interior seems to be standard from a certain line number, regardless of wither you want it or not. The boeing version seems to be a customer option?

It looks good though, although I do wonder if the height of the bin itself has been sacrificed to make it pivot? I find that space above my carry-on useful for putting jacket and things...

Brian.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Haggis79
Posted 2009-04-28 18:05:25 and read 25582 times.



Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 8):
It looks good though, although I do wonder if the height of the bin itself has been sacrificed to make it pivot? I find that space above my carry-on useful for putting jacket and things...

from what it looks like, the "ceiling" above the window seat will be a bit lower, making space for a more vertical, pivoting bin arrangement which leads to more headroom creating a more spacious feel in the aisle and the aisle seats.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Ikramerica
Posted 2009-04-28 18:14:43 and read 25526 times.

They also announced a 2% improvement in efficiency from aero and engine tweaks (still to be tested on a 738 testbed supplied by CO).

Quoting UpstateDave (Reply 7):
Don't forget airbus came out with their enhanced interior for the A320 last year

Who's forgotten?

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: WROORD
Posted 2009-04-28 18:15:01 and read 25527 times.

The interior looks great with the new lighting and bigger windows. I hate the pivot bins, they are really awkward a no space on top of my carry on for coats and small bags. Not sure why they would do that?

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Smi0006
Posted 2009-04-28 18:31:38 and read 25454 times.

I most certainly hope QF goes for them on their new 738 although the first few are due at the end of this year, perhaps the next bunch, I am rather confused though is it an optional interior or thats it from now on with airline added extras after that, what will the basic interrior from now on consist of?

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: UpstateDave
Posted 2009-04-28 18:33:31 and read 25449 times.



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 10):
Who's forgotten?



Quoting Virgin747lgw (Reply 2):
wow didnt expect that! Anyone else think the current A320 cabin is going to need a redesign if Airbus is serious about competing with Boeing?

My post based on this

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: PGNCS
Posted 2009-04-28 18:41:47 and read 25402 times.



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 4):

No; the A-320 cabin is already perfectly competitive.


I think the new B cabin is a bit lighter. From a passenger comfort point of view, Boeing's is a touch prettier... That isn't going to sell a plane.

We agree to disagree!  Smile

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
In the long run, this isn't going to radically change the on-board experience. It's going to be a long-ass flight from JFK to SFO sitting on a butt-buster of a seat, squirming to get out of there. But the overhead will be a bit pretty, and might capture my attention for an extra 30-60 seconds of the flight!

Really? You think it could be interesting for up to 60 seconds?  Wink

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 10):
They also announced a 2% improvement in efficiency from aero and engine tweaks (still to be tested on a 738 testbed supplied by CO).

This, however, IS a big deal; far bigger than new interior sidewall contours covering a 50 year old fuselage.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Coalways
Posted 2009-04-28 19:02:34 and read 25308 times.

So Continental will get all new deliveries with this state of the Art Cabin sometime late next year so will they get older 737-800,900,900ER refitted with the new Design?

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: DLHFLYER
Posted 2009-04-28 19:27:20 and read 25190 times.

A little overated honestly. Not that anyone will really notice or even care about these changes. It's better than doing nothing, but it's also not that amazing. And the pictures will not be reminscent of the airliners cabins, which will have less light, and will be more crammed. As stated above, it is nice that they are doing something.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: STT757
Posted 2009-04-28 19:36:44 and read 25132 times.



Quote:
New sculpted sidewalls are also part of the new look in the cabin, adding some additional interior width. Together with the other architectural features such as the pivot bins and the LED lighting, the cabin will appear significantly larger and wider.

I think people will notice, especially those of us who love window seats:

Quote:
Also, while the actual size of the structural window remains the same, by redesigning the inner window “reveal” and window shade, we’ve added a bit to the maximum viewable area – amounting to about 10% greater viewing than the A320.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Rsg85
Posted 2009-04-28 20:15:08 and read 24995 times.

Correct me if im wrong but i thought the pivot style overheads are similar to the older pre 90's style bins that were turfed for the current style because the current ones hold more and are easier to close.
Also will the pivots have some sort of gas strut system to assist with closing or are FA's going to have to start lifting 30kg or more above thier heads to close them.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Tdscanuck
Posted 2009-04-28 20:36:01 and read 24914 times.



Quoting WROORD (Reply 11):
I hate the pivot bins, they are really awkward a no space on top of my carry on for coats and small bags. Not sure why they would do that?

They hold considerably more rolly bags, which is the number one hog of overhead space.

Quoting DLHFLYER (Reply 16):
And the pictures will not be reminscent of the airliners cabins, which will have less light, and will be more crammed.

How will they have less light? As far as I know, interior lighting isn't an airline option (other than the option of the entire cabin.)

Quoting Rsg85 (Reply 18):
Correct me if im wrong but i thought the pivot style overheads are similar to the older pre 90's style bins that were turfed for the current style because the current ones hold more and are easier to close.

They're not the same. The current pivot pins are like those on the 777...they'll actually take a rolly bag longways, where the current ones can only do that for very very short rolly bags.

Tom.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: RoseFlyer
Posted 2009-04-28 20:40:22 and read 24884 times.



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):

In the long run, this isn't going to radically change the on-board experience. It's going to be a long-ass flight from JFK to SFO sitting on a butt-buster of a seat, squirming to get out of there. But the overhead will be a bit pretty, and might capture my attention for an extra 30-60 seconds of the flight!

The new interior is a significant reduction in weight (in airplane terms where 1 pound saved is noted as a significant accomplishment). This will mean lower fuel burn costs and increased payload. That means that there are lower trip costs for the airline and a cost advantage over previous generations and the competition.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Sxf24
Posted 2009-04-28 20:41:36 and read 24885 times.



Quoting Rsg85 (Reply 18):
Also will the pivots have some sort of gas strut system to assist with closing or are FA's going to have to start lifting 30kg or more above thier heads to close them.

If they're like the 777, they will be very easy to close.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2009-04-28 20:48:29 and read 24843 times.



Quoting PGNCS (Reply 4):
Quoting Virgin747lgw (Reply 2):
Anyone else think the current A320 cabin is going to need a redesign if Airbus is serious about competing with Boeing?

No; the A-320 cabin is already perfectly competitive.

A320 family interiors (overhead service units, wall and ceiling panels etc.) were redesigned recently. I've been on a couple of newly-delivered aircraft with the new interiors recently (AF and BA). The changes aren't major but the cabin does look a little more modern.

I would rather Boeing spend money on things that would really make a difference to passengers rather than on useless gimmicks like mood lighting.

Quoting Flood (Reply 6):
There was a previous thread which was apparently pulled for some reason,



Quoting WROORD (Reply 11):
The interior looks great with the new lighting and bigger windows.

The windows are the same size. Only the inner panels surrounding the windows now have a more oval shape.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Haggis79
Posted 2009-04-28 21:07:47 and read 24773 times.



Quoting WROORD (Reply 11):
The interior looks great with the new lighting and bigger windows.

read again, the windows are the same size as before, it's just the framing that is different.

Quoting WROORD (Reply 11):
I hate the pivot bins, they are really awkward a no space on top of my carry on for coats and small bags. Not sure why they would do that?

well, I guess they hold more rollaboards.... plus, they give the cabin a kind of new, "cool" look (maybe just because it's different than before).

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: AFGMEL
Posted 2009-04-28 21:13:21 and read 24753 times.

It looks good and will do well for image, but at the end of the day, the cabin is too narrow for this 6'4" yeti anyway. My shoulders simply do not fit in the seat and I have to spill over. While I may be overweight, it's not my stomach that's the issue. Lucky I don't travel alone. The A320 is better, just.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: AQ737
Posted 2009-04-28 21:26:31 and read 24885 times.

Does this design mean that all operators with this interior have to install PTVs if they want to have video entertainment? I don't see where flip-down LCDs could go - perhaps why AA isn't on the list...

Aq737

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: KochamLOT
Posted 2009-04-28 21:26:59 and read 24880 times.

at a time when airlines are cutting all the free baggage policies of not too long ago, manufacturers are able to make bins even larger. How ironic. I love the new design and wonder when it will come out. Will American Airlines' new 73s get the interior?

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: NASBWI
Posted 2009-04-28 21:45:51 and read 25372 times.

I'm not sure about the issues some may face with storage of larger carryons on widebody aircraft, but when it comes to narrowbodies, I have to say that it really doesn't matter how much more space in the overhead bins you can create; there has to be some kind of enforcement to the "one carryon, one personal item" rule.

In general, it seems that on full flights, the overhead bins become crowded even before everyone has boarded. Partly, this is due to people laying coats/hats/jackets into the bins, hence rendering the rest of the bin useless (unless we move the items, much to that customer's ire). It's also due to a lot of people traveling with a rollerboard, a (large) handbag (or something similar), a laptop, and a purse. Some have carried ALL of these at the same time - and then tried to place ALL of them in the overhead bin above them, seemingly forgetting that they were to share that space with at least 2 other seatmates - if not the row behind or in front of them. This practice has only seen an increase since the introduction of baggage fees.

Aircraft manufacturers have tried to expand space in the overhead bins, which is a nice gesture for passenger comfort in theory. In practice, it means that perhaps a couple more coats and handbags and purses will be thrown up there, leaving yet another poor soul and his/her rollerboard without space. Yes, we move through the cabin to assist (and perform 'space control' if you will), but with 25+ rows to move through during boarding, it's nearly impossible to catch it all. Trying to rectify it after boarding results in a possibly delayed flight.

I guess the moral of this long-winded sort-of rant is: more overhead space is grand, but if advertized to the public, will only encourage them to bring yet more items on board the aircraft, current carryon policies notwithstanding. Now, if we can have more communication/co-operation between inflight/ground crews regarding the overhead bin space, and items that people carry onboard, I think having more space to (comfortably) stow those larger items would be a welcome change to what's currently available. Airbus' redesigned bins are wonderful, and Boeing's concept looks pretty amazing.  smile 

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: CALPSAFltSkeds
Posted 2009-04-28 22:19:25 and read 25279 times.

Well, in coach with pitch about 31-33 inches, the overhead bins at best provide space for two 16 inch roller bags per row. Unless they find a way to store these base upright instead on on their sides, there won't be room for everyone to have a roller bag in the overhead. Of course, that won't happen in a narrow body. And,jsut how much weight can be suspended from the ceilings anyway?

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2009-04-28 22:20:41 and read 25237 times.



Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 20):

The new interior is a significant reduction in weight (in airplane terms where 1 pound saved is noted as a significant accomplishment). This will mean lower fuel burn costs and increased payload. That means that there are lower trip costs for the airline and a cost advantage over previous generations and the competition.

Yes, yes, I already pointed that out. But it's not going to change the passenger experience appreciably.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Ikramerica
Posted 2009-04-28 23:33:40 and read 25035 times.



Quoting UpstateDave (Reply 13):
My post based on this

Ah, I see. My bad. Quoting would have made it clearer.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 17):
I think people will notice, especially those of us who love window seats:

And for airlines that put video screens over the aisles, you'll be able to see them from the windows.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
Yes, yes, I already pointed that out. But it's not going to change the passenger experience appreciably.

For tall people like me, it will be an improvement. I can more easily get to the window and it won't feel so "close in there" as my grandmother used to say.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: OyKIE
Posted 2009-04-29 02:37:40 and read 24700 times.



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
I think the new B cabin is a bit lighter. From a passenger comfort point of view, Boeing's is a touch prettier... That isn't going to sell a plane.

If everything else is equal, then pretty will sell. If I were to choose between two cars that was technically equal, I would go with the best designed.

Quoting Coalways (Reply 15):
So Continental will get all new deliveries with this state of the Art Cabin sometime late next year so will they get older 737-800,900,900ER refitted with the new Design?

I asked about this in my thread some days ago about when we can expect the enhanced 737 interior. Will all this be available as a retrofit?

Quoting KochamLOT (Reply 27):
at a time when airlines are cutting all the free baggage policies of not too long ago, manufacturers are able to make bins even larger. How ironic.

How is that ironic? When airlines are charging for checked in baggage, while carry on for a certain size is free guess what will happen. More people will choose a carry on luggage and as a passenger I have witnessed that allot of people tend to have more carry on luggage than what is allowed. They buy tax free on the waiting area, and it is difficult for the F/A to get all this. To me bigger bins will be a huge improvement in the flying experience. The reason why airlines have started charging for checked in luggage is that it cost them much to handle the luggage. Load it on the plane, unload and try to make sure you get it at desitnation.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: NZ107
Posted 2009-04-29 02:51:14 and read 24588 times.

Looks rather nice. I guess this is their interim product till they get Y3 underway.. How exactly will mood lighting be appealing to airlines flying 1 hr routes with their 737s? I guess they could still use it though. I hope Air New Zealand goes for the 73NG.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: OyKIE
Posted 2009-04-29 03:24:58 and read 24308 times.



Quoting NZ107 (Reply 33):
Looks rather nice.

 checkmark  It looks rather nice! I wonder if they will launch a new engine for this airframe, or if Boeing find it to complex? The benefit of the 737 is the supply chain and training of pilots/ F/A's and mechanics are optimized and mature. If they start a new project the frame it self have to offer a great leap over the current technology offered for their 737 product to counter the risk of building a brand new plane.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Vasu
Posted 2009-04-29 03:36:58 and read 24207 times.



Quoting NASBWI (Reply 28):
I'm not sure about the issues some may face with storage of larger carryons on widebody aircraft, but when it comes to narrowbodies, I have to say that it really doesn't matter how much more space in the overhead bins you can create; there has to be some kind of enforcement to the "one carryon, one personal item" rule.

Cannot agree more... I wonder what will happen about this issue?

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Parapente
Posted 2009-04-29 04:17:26 and read 23911 times.

Not wishing to be perverse but I believe that this new interior is a very big deal. I have just read an article this morning in the business pages by our favourite CEO from - yes you guessed it Ryanair. Now whilst "the way" he describes things -and the language he uses may (its designed to) upset people. This highly intelligent man usually makes a lot of sense.

Firstly the article stated that his new move to remove checkin will save £45 E a year. Thats a big saving. (whether or not its reflected in ticket prices is another thing). However in his usual unrepentant wat he goes on to say. That checking in suitcases was a hangover from the 20's/30's when Lord Snooty was the only type of person that flew - who could,nt possibly actually carry luggage himself! He goes on to say how stupid it is to carry your luggage - then give it to someone else - who promptly gives it back to you at the end of the flight. This process costing the traveller hours of wasted time at both ends of the flight.

So to the serious bit.

With present overhead bin on standard 737,s and 320's there has to be a strict size limit. It is for short duration travel perfectly good IMHO.

However a Ryanain expands they are dragging the whole of commercial aviation along with it.
How long before this becomes the norm?

With direct reference to the new interior using 777/787 bins. Much has been spoken of the delay of the next generation of narrowodies. It is clear - and ststed that this has now been pushed to 2020. The argument has thus centered on whether the Bombardier "launch" could change all this.

Well whilst it may not - on the surface appear significant - if huge carry on luggage bins becomes "de rigeur" then clearly a "super narrow" aircraft will never be able to meet this condition.

One can easily imagine Airbus quickly following suit with 350 bins in their 320.

That could be game set and match - over what on the surface seems a small factor.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: FWI747
Posted 2009-04-29 04:17:29 and read 24012 times.

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 32):
Quoting Coalways (Reply 15):
So Continental will get all new deliveries with this state of the Art Cabin sometime late next year so will they get older 737-800,900,900ER refitted with the new Design?

I asked about this in my thread some days ago about when we can expect the enhanced 737 interior. Will all this be available as a retrofit?

Apparently not :

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...grades-cfm56-engine-for-737ng.html

"[...]The weight-neutral interior will be a priced option for existing 737 customers and be a mandatory priced ‘option’ for new customers. Boeing declines to discuss the adjustment in price of the new features.
While technically possible to retrofit current 737NGs, Boeing says this is “not feasible” because the cost would be prohibitively high.[...]"

[Edited 2009-04-29 04:19:41]

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Motorhussy
Posted 2009-04-29 04:29:48 and read 23772 times.

Looks great but they are just cosmetic and fairly superficial improvements that can be achieved and improved on further with the equivalent Airbus as it has a superior structure with which to achieve it.

Regards
MH

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: DLHFLYER
Posted 2009-04-29 05:22:25 and read 23201 times.



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 18):
How will they have less light? As far as I know, interior lighting isn't an airline option (other than the option of the entire cabin.)

Because every plane I have been on doesn't look as good as the marketing pictures. Boeing is trying to sell airplanes, so of course, they will make it look nicer.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Sxf24
Posted 2009-04-29 05:34:16 and read 23044 times.



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 28):
Yes, yes, I already pointed that out. But it's not going to change the passenger experience appreciably.

The passenger experience is largely within the control of the airline.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Virgin747lgw
Posted 2009-04-29 05:42:47 and read 22951 times.



Quoting UpstateDave (Reply 6):
Don't forget airbus came out with their enhanced interior for the A320 last year that was touted as offering weight savings over the previous models

Yea i knew about that, I just think this new interior is much more modern and passenger friendly than the A320 one, after reading most of the comments it seems like im in the minority

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: TISTPAA727
Posted 2009-04-29 05:50:50 and read 22865 times.

I like the interior and hope DL decides to take future deliveries with this.

I also do believe passengers will notice. I don't think you are giving enough credit to the everyday passenger. Many times I hear from people (who are not aviation nuts) about the experience of a flight and they mention why they like one plane over another (color, spaciousness, dark/light, etc.) I for one give this a  bigthumbsup 

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 21):
I would rather Boeing spend money on things that would really make a difference to passengers rather than on useless gimmicks like mood lighting.

How much more can Boeing do to the venerable 737? GTF - yes, that is one option that will likely require a heightening of the landing gear, etc. Redesign the wing? Why? The 737 replacement will likely be out in a decade and by the time the redesigned wing is developed in part of the manufacturing process, they will likely be offering the replacement. There are probably many things Boeing can do but from a cost-benefit analysis, this probably made the most sense. Also, this helps with the cabin perception issues against the 320.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Parapente
Posted 2009-04-29 06:21:44 and read 22498 times.

How much more can Boeing do? It all depends on time lines. We know that Cfm -they have stated - that their new core shouls be ready in 5 years time. Furthermore with a 4th generation fan blade system attached it wil deliver (they say) a 16% fuel saving AND be able to be hung under existing aircraft. Clearly -whatever "fan/open rotor" route they take ,both RR and their (present) partner P&W will need a similar new core. The problem for them is that GTF requires different spooling speeds to make sense of GTF technology. However it may be possible for some kind of joint arrangement.

Either way Cfm will be in a position to offer a major interim leap in economies to the existing 2 aircraft.

If the "New" aircraft slip further away from 2020 this must be what will happen -in fact it may happen in any event as Cfm have stated that the new core will work fine with an open rotor. I note Cfm have stated that the latter will add a further 10% plus eficiency. Add that to the gains of an optimised new frame (5%?) then there you have the new aircraft there and then. Note GE are starting trials with NASA on blade optimisation for noise/thrust on a contra rotating open rotor -this is exactly what Rolls are doing at present. I fear that P&W GTF will not be on the next generation as no fan can meet these levels of efficirncy -well not according to GE and RR -and I tend to believe them -as Easyjet clearly does.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Trent1000
Posted 2009-04-29 06:22:46 and read 22488 times.

From the pic in the original link:

Is that 4 pieces of luggage for 9 passengers or is it 4 pieces for 12 passengers?
(i.e. one bin per 3 or 4 rows).

How about a pic to demonstrate the reality of 9 bags for 9 passengers?

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: OyKIE
Posted 2009-04-29 10:58:13 and read 19490 times.



Quoting FI747 (Reply 35):
Apparently not :

I see. It's a shame though. Would love to see it on older planes as well. SAS changed the MD-80 bins to MD-90 bins. That might have been a cheaper upgrade than this would be.

Quoting Virgin747lgw (Reply 39):

Yea i knew about that, I just think this new interior is much more modern and passenger friendly than the A320 one, after reading most of the comments it seems like im in the minority

It is a huge step up compared to both A320 enhanced interior and the current 737NG interior. According to FlyDubai the launch customer:

Quote:
Featuring the very latest aircraft interior, the Boeing 737-800 cabin is bright and airy. And the spacious overhead lockers can easily accommodate the 10 kg hand baggage allowance allocated to each passenger. This is the largest economy class hand baggage allowance in the region.

That means that this is not just cosmetic.

Quoting Motorhussy (Reply 36):
Looks great but they are just cosmetic and fairly superficial improvements that can be achieved and improved on further with the equivalent Airbus as it has a superior structure with which to achieve it.

No they are not just cosmetic. They allow for more hand luggage. The new 787 style sidewalls amounts to about 10% greater viewing than the A320. Now Airbus can of course do the same upgrade as Boeing has done now, but I do not agree that this is just cosmetic.

On to the topic. Flightblogger speculated that there could be more uprades in store for the 737NG like an upgrade of the 737NG cockpit like the upgrade Southwest are giving the 737 classics. However this time it seems like they only are doing some of the upgrades he sugggested.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Ikramerica
Posted 2009-04-29 12:01:51 and read 18701 times.



Quoting Trent1000 (Reply 42):
How about a pic to demonstrate the reality of 9 bags for 9 passengers?

No narrowbody has that capacity. It's 2 rollerboard bags per 3 pax in the modern interiors. These bins are the same width as the current extended bins on the 737 that hold 4 bags and span 2 rows of coach.

The bags in the picture are larger than allowed by most airlines, which is kind of stupid to show, as it makes the bin look smaller than it is. Should have used 4 standard rollerboard carry-on bags.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2009-04-29 12:21:19 and read 18465 times.



Quoting Virgin747lgw (Reply 39):

Yea i knew about that, I just think this new interior is much more modern and passenger friendly than the A320 one, after reading most of the comments it seems like im in the minority

No, I agree with you. This looks a lot cuter than the new A320 interior.

But, really, it's just that: cute. It isn't going to revolutionize narrowbody air travel or anything. It's just cute. And holds a lot of roll-ons, which is a big plus.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Phllax
Posted 2009-04-29 12:32:43 and read 18318 times.

You know, I always wondered why Boeing never upgraded the sidewalls, bins and PSU of the 80's manufactured 737-200's and 727-200's to match those of the 300 and 757, or even the further upgraded 400/500 sidewall, PSU product.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Shed360
Posted 2009-04-29 12:46:37 and read 18170 times.

All I noticed is how bad the seat covers are fitted in the photo. Sorry it's what I do and that is poor in a publicity photo

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2009/q2/090428d_pr.html

[Edited 2009-04-29 12:51:10]

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Ikramerica
Posted 2009-04-29 12:50:06 and read 18113 times.



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 45):
But, really, it's just that: cute. It isn't going to revolutionize narrowbody air travel or anything. It's just cute. And holds a lot of roll-ons, which is a big plus.

They mention the new side walls, but not if the seats can even be .1" wider as a result.

The "bigger windows" sure look bigger, but the window is still at my chest when I sit down, making it hard to look out of.

They mention it is quieter, which would be a big plus, but not how much quieter. 1dB won't matter.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Snn2003
Posted 2009-04-29 13:33:22 and read 17699 times.

"Other features:

* New, touch screen flight attendant panels and controls"

YAY!!!!! I'm sold...If only the new controls would let us mute the call buttons like on the 777...
SNN

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Falcon84
Posted 2009-04-29 14:03:08 and read 17378 times.

Glad to see CO will be putting these new intereriors onboard. Itr looks very sharp.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2009-04-29 14:09:51 and read 17316 times.



Quoting TISTPAA727 (Reply 40):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 21):
I would rather Boeing spend money on things that would really make a difference to passengers rather than on useless gimmicks like mood lighting.

How much more can Boeing do to the venerable 737? GTF - yes, that is one option that will likely require a heightening of the landing gear, etc. Redesign the wing? Why? The 737 replacement will likely be out in a decade and by the time the redesigned wing is developed in part of the manufacturing process, they will likely be offering the replacement. There are probably many things Boeing can do but from a cost-benefit analysis, this probably made the most sense. Also, this helps with the cabin perception issues against the 320.

For example, they could enlarge the windows, not just the inner plastic window surrounds which is a cosmetic change only. Boeing installed larger 777 windows on the 767-400. If they were able to justify the costs of that change on the 764 of which only 38 were built for 2 customers, surely they could amortize the cost of a similar change on the 737NG where there are still over 2,000 to be delivered and no doubt many more orders to come. Current 737 windows date from the original 707 window design of more than half a century ago.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: CB777
Posted 2009-04-29 15:20:54 and read 16674 times.

I hope that CO can retrofit their existing B737NG fleet and maybe the B757's can also receive this interior  Smile

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: BMIFlyer
Posted 2009-04-29 15:33:59 and read 16536 times.

Ding Ding!

That interior looks fantastic Big grin I can't wait to fly in it  Smile



Lee

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Rwdriver
Posted 2009-04-29 16:11:05 and read 16228 times.

OK,,, couple of notes - from a guy that spends about 150 days a year on an airplane:
1. If passengers want more window views - why just create a larger "reveal" that calls your attention to the outside - why not use composites and actually create bigger windows?

2. I note the mock-up is only 10 rows long - making it appear "significantly" wider and roomier that it actually is.

3. Most airlines have provided bin mods to handle lengthwise storage already. The recognition of pax being seperated from their luggage (or - aghast - having to check it) is real. But recognizing the issue is not the same as solving it - and I don't see how this provides an enhancement from current reality.

4. There is no mention of enhanced cabin pressurization/environment control. This is what ultimately impacts passenger fatigue and the overall travel experience.

Overall - thanks, Boeing - but this appears to be just so much smoke and mirrors - if it's not - the marketing peops have missed thier target.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Tdscanuck
Posted 2009-04-29 16:14:44 and read 16183 times.



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 21):

I would rather Boeing spend money on things that would really make a difference to passengers rather than on useless gimmicks like mood lighting.

Mood lightning isn't a useless gimmick...it actually makes a difference to how passengers perceive their trip, even if they can't explain why. I'm pretty sure this is a spillover from the 787 passenger cabin experience research.

For very short flights, it might not have any noticeable effect, but it doesn't have any cost either. For long flights it will be quite welcome.

Tom.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Ikramerica
Posted 2009-04-29 16:30:59 and read 16030 times.



Quoting Snn2003 (Reply 49):
If only the new controls would let us mute the call buttons like on the 777...

I have nothing but disdain for that comment, as it shows you have disdain for your pax.

Quoting Rwdriver (Reply 54):
and I don't see how this provides an enhancement from current reality.

The bins seem to allow you to place smaller items on top of the rollerboards, like computer bags, backpacks, etc., which can't be achieved in the current bin configs on 737s. This is why they say you won't have to put them under your feet or have them far out of sight.

Quoting Rwdriver (Reply 54):
4. There is no mention of enhanced cabin pressurization/environment control. This is what ultimately impacts passenger fatigue and the overall travel experience.

Like point 1, this would require a massive redesign of the aircraft, which is not what this is. This is simply a 2% efficiency and cabin refresh to tide customers over until some kind of 737RS can be built in 8-10 years.

It didn't really help much with the 767 sales when they offered the 777 interior, though. But the 767 at CO feels basically like a 777 inside, and it is a noticeable difference compared to the various other 767 interiors over the years. I think that this 737 update will be noticeable to customers.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Snn2003
Posted 2009-04-29 16:54:08 and read 15841 times.



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 56):
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States, joined May 2005, 17059 posts, RR: 49
Reply 56, posted Wed Apr 29 2009 18:30:59 your local time (19 minutes 16 secs ago) and read 77 times:



Quoting Snn2003 (Reply 49):
If only the new controls would let us mute the call buttons like on the 777...

I have nothing but disdain for that comment, as it shows you have disdain for your pax.

Quoting Rwdriver (Reply 54):
and I don't see how this provides an enhancement from current reality.

The bins seem to allow you to place smaller items on top of the rollerboards, like computer bags, backpacks, etc., which can't be achieved in the current bin configs on 737s. This is why they say you won't have to put them under your feet or have them far out of sight.

Quoting Rwdriver (Reply 54):
4. There is no mention of enhanced cabin pressurization/environment control. This is what ultimately impacts passenger fatigue and the overall travel experience.

Like point 1, this would require a massive redesign of the aircraft, which is not what this is. This is simply a 2% efficiency and cabin refresh to tide customers over until some kind of 737RS can be built in 8-10 years.

It didn't really help much with the 767 sales when they offered the 777 interior, though. But the 767 at CO feels basically like a 777 inside, and it is a noticeable difference compared to the various other 767 interiors over the years. I think that this 737 update will be noticeable to customers.

Awww I was just kidding....

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: OyKIE
Posted 2009-04-29 23:01:35 and read 15452 times.



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 51):
If they were able to justify the costs of that change on the 764 of which only 38 were built for 2 customers, surely they could amortize the cost of a similar change on the 737NG where there are still over 2,000 to be delivered and no doubt many more orders to come.

It might have something to do with maintenance cost to go with larger windows, and the low cost carriers could be worried. But I agree that from a passenger perspective, this would be welcomed news.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 51):
Current 737 windows date from the original 707 window design of more than half a century ago.

Were the seats lower on the 707 with a good seat pitch? I have always felt that the new seats in the 737 are to high for the windows design.

Quoting Rwdriver (Reply 54):
But recognizing the issue is not the same as solving it - and I don't see how this provides an enhancement from current reality.

They are larger, than the current ones. It helps

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 48):
They mention it is quieter, which would be a big plus, but not how much quieter. 1dB won't matter.

Boeing hopes to gett he noise down 2-4 percent.

Quote:
Boeing also hopes to deliver a 2-4dB reduction in cabin noise. The interior improvements mark the most significant change to the type’s cabin since its introduction with Southwest Airlines in 1998.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...grades-cfm56-engine-for-737ng.html

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: NASBWI
Posted 2009-04-29 23:38:54 and read 15402 times.



Quoting OyKIE (Reply 58):
I have always felt that the new seats in the 737 are to high for the windows design.

Honestly, having been on the 737-200, 300/400, and 700/800, it would seem as though either I've grown, or of all the Boeing jets, the seats on 737s (in general) are higher than on other models. I find myself looking down and sideways to get a good look out (kinda like being on a CRJ - yikes!)

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Kappel
Posted 2009-04-30 00:41:24 and read 15312 times.



Quoting NASBWI (Reply 59):
Honestly, having been on the 737-200, 300/400, and 700/800, it would seem as though either I've grown, or of all the Boeing jets, the seats on 737s (in general) are higher than on other models. I find myself looking down and sideways to get a good look out (kinda like being on a CRJ - yikes!)

Indeed. I like the fact that the 737 windows are bigger than the a320's, but the a320 windows are at the right height. The windows on the 737 are too low, which is annoying as I love window seats.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Max999
Posted 2009-04-30 06:20:13 and read 15068 times.

Does anyone know if the LED lights are fixed to the blue color? Or can they change colors to show sunrise, sunset, and nighttime?

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Smi0006
Posted 2009-04-30 10:59:33 and read 14830 times.



Quoting Max999 (Reply 61):
Does anyone know if the LED lights are fixed to the blue color? Or can they change colors to show sunrise, sunset, and nighttime?

I cannot rave enough about the LED mood lighting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As someone who suffers from dry eyes while flying there is nothing more painful than being woken by the illumination of your standard cabin lighting no matter what attempt is made to make it gradual. LED mood lighting is more gradual and softer. Wish I could have it in my house!

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: KochamLOT
Posted 2009-04-30 11:04:05 and read 14796 times.



Quoting UpstateDave (Thread starter):
How is that ironic? When airlines are charging for checked in baggage, while carry on for a certain size is free guess what will happen. More people will choose a carry on luggage and as a passenger I have witnessed that allot of people tend to have more carry on luggage than what is allowed. They buy tax free on the waiting area, and it is difficult for the F/A to get all this. To me bigger bins will be a huge improvement in the flying experience. The reason why airlines have started charging for checked in luggage is that it cost them much to handle the luggage. Load it on the plane, unload and try to make sure you get it at desitnation.

good point. well, at least carry-on luggage is still free as of now. I also though the luggage charges were for weight concerns as well. less weight means less fuel needed.
but I guess its not ironic at all...so as long as carryons are still free

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Debonair
Posted 2009-04-30 11:14:38 and read 14828 times.



Quoting UpstateDave (Thread starter):
Look really cool

Yeap, it l@@ks cool- but it isn't- and it is NOT working for a short-med. airliner. Believe me!

More than 20yrs ago (  alert  ) BAe tried this configuration in its BAe146- and believe me, it was not working at all! Thats why it was dropped on later produced AVRO RJ's.

First of all, the max. load into the bin is very limited and is very difficult to handle- one reason many, many operators changed the design to the later, standard bins. Can't wait to see, who will be the first Boeing customer to change the design back to the old school design.

BAe146 Interior:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Serge Bailleul - AirTeamImages

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Ikramerica
Posted 2009-04-30 11:34:01 and read 14747 times.



Quoting Snn2003 (Reply 57):
Awww I was just kidding....

Doesn't really matter. Still shows an attitude shared by some, not all, some FAs that pax are nuisances, not customers.

Having had a call button ignored for quite a while despite a valid concern (a spill), I believe many F/As do ignore the button, so joking about it doesn't make me feel any better.

Sorry...

Quoting Debonair (Reply 64):
More than 20yrs ago (    ) BAe tried this configuration in its BAe146- and believe me, it was not working at all! Thats why it was dropped on later produced AVRO RJ's.

That's hardly the same design.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2009-04-30 12:31:16 and read 14661 times.



Quoting Smi0006 (Reply 62):
Wish I could have it in my house!

http://www.ikea.com/au/en/catalog/products/10119409

That's the AUD$99 solution.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2009-04-30 15:17:15 and read 14507 times.



Quoting OyKIE (Reply 58):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 51):
Current 737 windows date from the original 707 window design of more than half a century ago.

Were the seats lower on the 707 with a good seat pitch? I have always felt that the new seats in the 737 are to high for the windows design.

Seat pitch on 707s operated by scheduled carriers was generally 34 inches in Y class, 2 or 3 inches more than the usual on most airlines today. However I can't recall there being much difference in the seat height. Although the 757 has the same width fuselage as all other Boeing narrowbodies I believe the floor is slightly lower which puts the windows at a slightly higher level in relation to the windows than on the 737 (and 727).

The CRJ 100/200 has the same problem with the windows being too low for easy viewing. That's related to the CRJ having being developed from the Challenger business jet. The window height problem was corrected on the CRJ 700/900 by lowering the cabin floor slightly.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Tdscanuck
Posted 2009-04-30 15:28:05 and read 14489 times.



Quoting Debonair (Reply 64):
More than 20yrs ago ( alert ) BAe tried this configuration in its BAe146- and believe me, it was not working at all! Thats why it was dropped on later produced AVRO RJ's.

First of all, the max. load into the bin is very limited and is very difficult to handle- one reason many, many operators changed the design to the later, standard bins. Can't wait to see, who will be the first Boeing customer to change the design back to the old school design.

There have been more than a few improvements in bins over the last 20 years...other than both having pivots, they're not really the same design at all. If pivots were as bad as you're suggesting, nobody would have put them on the new production airliners and everyone would be trying to take them off the 777's, yet that's not the case.

Tom.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: BrianDromey
Posted 2009-04-30 15:40:59 and read 14456 times.



Quoting OyKIE (Reply 58):
Were the seats lower on the 707 with a good seat pitch? I have always felt that the new seats in the 737 are to high for the windows design.

I wondered that on an FR 738 a few weeks back, it did seem like the windows were very low. I wonder if, over the years seats have been mounted a little higher which would give the impression of more legroom?
The EK seats on the 777 are quite high as well, IIRC - wither that is to take advantage of the widest point of the fuselage or not, I don't know.

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 68):
There have been more than a few improvements in bins over the last 20 years...other than both having pivots

I think those BAe bins might actually have had hinges, so the shelf of the bin was flat in the open position? The difference with the boeing bins is that they kind of "sllde" as well as tilting, at least on the 777.

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 68):
everyone would be trying to take them off the 777's, yet that's not the case.

If this bin design was inferior to the shelf design why would airbus make it available for the A380?
The bins on the 777 are great. They are cavernous and I think the mechanism of action is pretty cool too! The bins are the best part of the 777's passenger experience IMHO. Once actually in flight, i think the 330/340 have the edge.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Smi0006
Posted 2009-04-30 23:36:36 and read 14195 times.



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 65):
Doesn't really matter. Still shows an attitude shared by some, not all, some FAs that pax are nuisances, not customers.

Hahha I love this attitude some on here have, what and you love absolutely every aspect of your job and never make jokes about it?

On my last flight as an FA someone pressed a call bell, smiling I asked them if there was anything I could help them with, "Only this" she said handing me her son's used nappy, a full nappy nice and warm and smelly. Yeah of course I stood in the aisle smiled and thought to myself it's moments like these that make me love my job, I do ever so much love handling another person's child excrement it just makes my job and my day seem oh so supper dooper bright and sunnny...... they may be customers but many can be nuisances, and much worse, trust me.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 66):
hat's the AUD$99 solution.

Haha I have looked into them not am I a mood lighting fan but an even bigger IKEA fan!

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 69):
If this bin design was inferior to the shelf design why would airbus make it available for the A380?

Any interesting point is QF have both designs on their A380s, can't remember which way it goes I think standard on top and pivot on top?

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Phollingsworth
Posted 2009-05-01 06:25:41 and read 13987 times.



Quoting Smi0006 (Reply 70):
On my last flight as an FA someone pressed a call bell, smiling I asked them if there was anything I could help them with, "Only this" she said handing me her son's used nappy, a full nappy nice and warm and smelly. Yeah of course I stood in the aisle smiled and thought to myself it's moments like these that make me love my job, I do ever so much love handling another person's child excrement it just makes my job and my day seem oh so supper dooper bright and sunnny...... they may be customers but many can be nuisances, and much worse, trust me.

When I worked in maintenance we had no love for passengers. The self loading cargo requires coffee and lavs. Coffee and "lav juice" tends to get spilled and causes huge corrosion issues on almost any aircraft. At least the vacuum lavs have reduced the volume and location of the "juice" spillage.

The thing about the shelf bins, is that depending on the layout of services in the crown, they are extremely inefficient with respect to using the internal volume of the aircraft. This tends to be worse on wide body aircraft, when compared to narrow body aircraft. However, the 737 and A320 are large enough that there is wasted space in the crown. It is generally considered better to give the extra volume to the cabin than to nothing. The issue is that shelf bins are simple and light, conformal, drop-down bins are heavier, and if you don't add proper mechanical advantage, a real pain for passengers. This is something that the 777 design added for the purely hinged bins.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: Beeweel15
Posted 2009-05-04 20:23:22 and read 13308 times.

Besides the new Interior. I did read some where that there will be some performance improvements made to reduce fuel consumption. Will the 737 be getting some new wings also like the 777-200LR.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andrew W. Sieber

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: STT757
Posted 2009-05-05 07:59:16 and read 13071 times.

Have we figured out yet whether there will be a conversion package for existing fleets, or will this be only for new deliveries?..

CO has 4 737-800s and 46 737-900ERs on order, if these are going to be the only aircraft in CO's fleet with the "Sky Interior" upgrades CO should try to concentrate them on Trans-Cons from EWR, CLE and IAH.

Topic: RE: New 737 Interior - "Boeing Sky Interior"
Username: VirginFlyer
Posted 2009-05-05 08:12:22 and read 13038 times.



Quoting STT757 (Reply 73):
Have we figured out yet whether there will be a conversion package for existing fleets, or will this be only for new deliveries?..



Quoting FWI747 (Reply 35):
Apparently not :

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...grades-cfm56-engine-for-737ng.html

"[...]The weight-neutral interior will be a priced option for existing 737 customers and be a mandatory priced ‘option’ for new customers. Boeing declines to discuss the adjustment in price of the new features.
While technically possible to retrofit current 737NGs, Boeing says this is “not feasible” because the cost would be prohibitively high.[...]"

V/F


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