Hello everybody, I have a friend who's is a pilot and told me that DL just got 10 new MD-90's from Finnair and that they might get more from Chinasouther. Maybe 25 more. Can anybody comment on these??

Umm...Finnair doesn't have MD-90's...SAS does.

Quoting DELTA7478 (Thread starter): Hello everybody, I have a friend who's is a pilot and told me that DL just got 10 new MD-90's from Finnair and that they might get more from Chinasouther. Maybe 25 more. Can anybody comment on these??

The prediction that DL is getting MD-90's from a Chinese carrier has been around for about 2 years. Not saying it won't happen but it does seem a long long process.

1

2

3

It's 3. Not 10.

Blue 1 of Finland operates some of the ex-SAS MD90's if could be these although they only operate 5 examples.

They are from europe.

DL should have just taken delivery of their originally ordered MD90's and they wouldn't have to worry about hunting for additional frames =)

Just an old pipe dream

If I remember correctly, one of the latest conference calls addressed the MD-90 rumor. Anderson said they are very close to wrapping up a deal to acquire more MD90s.

What's the reason for getting more MD-90's? What will they replace?

Isn't DL still getting 737-700's? Don't think they are taking any -800's are they?

DL already has two MD-90's stored at VCV, one acquired from Hello. They will be placed in service when the economy turns around. HB-JIA is one of them.

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 9):

Source?

Not so, according to widgetheads.net

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 5): They are from europe.

Hello

Quoting AlexInWa (Reply 8): Isn't DL still getting 737-700's? Don't think they are taking any -800's are they?

3 73Gs and 2 738s coming in 2010.

Quoting FlyAA757 (Reply 10): Not so, according to widgetheads.net

huh? The 16 DL birds are all in the air yes. Delta has 2 M90s from Hello in VCV.
It hasn't really be made known on the outside.

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 9): DL already has two MD-90's stored at VCV, one acquired from Hello. They will be placed in service when the economy turns around. HB-JIA is one of them.

I believe they are both from Hello. One more should come and all 3 should be in the air in 2010. They will need some time in TechOps before they can get in the air for Delta. Also Delta should have the deal for the M90s from China done by the end of the year. AFAIK Delta and the airline(s) have agreed to a deal its just waiting the OK from the govs. (both US and China)

Wikipedia says:

In August 2008, a total of 110 MD-90 aircraft (all variants) were in airline service, including:[17]
Saudi Arabian Airlines (29)
Delta Air Lines (16)
Japan Airlines (16)
China Southern (13)
Uni Air (11)
China Eastern (9)
Hello Airlines (6)
Blue1 (5)
Lion Air (5)


It make sense to concentrate a relative small serie of relatively yong aircraft aircraft with a limitted number of operators.. Smells like an opportunistic cheap deal NWA style..

Quoting Keesje (Reply 12): Smells like an opportunistic cheap deal NWA style..

This isn't a NW deal. This started a while ago with Gerry during BK. The fuel spike just made it come back to life.

China Eastern, as far as I know.

Quoting NW747-400 (Reply 6):

Could Tech Ops hang two derrated V2500 on the DC9 and make it go another 20 years   

HB-JIB and HB-JIC are the other two MD-90's being acquired by Delta. HB-JIA left the Hello fleet on 3/31/09 and routed to VCV

I had two (more) flights on MD-90s this weekend. Makes a very welcome change from endless 737s and A320s!  

A quick search shows Delta has the following registrations reserved for these aircraft:

N917DN
N918DH
N919DN

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 13): Quoting Keesje (Reply 12): Smells like an opportunistic cheap deal NWA style.. This isn't a NW deal. This started a while ago with Gerry during BK. The fuel spike just made it come back to life.

I think he's refering to the fact that NW was infamous at acquiring, high-quality, relatively low-time, out-of-production, 2nd hand aircraft on the cheap to suppliment their fleet.

This includes:
Numerous DC-9-30's throughout the 90's
The entire DC-10-30 fleet throughout the 90's

As crazy as it seemed, NW bought some 2nd hand DC-9's and DC-10's as recently as 2000.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 11): Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 9): DL already has two MD-90's stored at VCV, one acquired from Hello. They will be placed in service when the economy turns around. HB-JIA is one of them. I believe they are both from Hello. One more should come and all 3 should be in the air in 2010. They will need some time in TechOps before they can get in the air for Delta. Also Delta should have the deal for the M90s from China done by the end of the year. AFAIK Delta and the airline(s) have agreed to a deal its just waiting the OK from the govs. (both US and China)

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 16): HB-JIB and HB-JIC are the other two MD-90's being acquired by Delta. HB-JIA left the Hello fleet on 3/31/09 and routed to VCV

Thanks for the info guys, I saw one of the MD-90's come in here, VCV, one day and I was wondering why they were here or for whom.

FX1816

Fine with me to see more modern, non-regional t-tails flying for DL. They're a nice plane to fly on.

We all know about the early teething problems with the MD90. But now that they are mature aircraft, how do the economics compare to the A320 and B738?

HB-JIA touched down in VCV on April 1st. Routing was via ARN, KEF and BGR. HB-JIB and HB-JIC will leave the Hello fleet either in October or November.

Quoting DELTA7478 (Thread starter): Hello everybody, I have a friend who's is a pilot and told me that DL just got 10 new MD-90's from Finnair

Finnair haven't ever had any MD-90's...

Quoting KA501 (Reply 4): Blue 1 of Finland operates some of the ex-SAS MD90's if could be these although they only operate 5 examples.

Yes, Blue1 (SASFinland) operate five MD-90's but not new, they have said MD-90 is too big for their needs, probably trying get rid of them.

Quoting Andaman (Reply 24): Yes, Blue1 (SASFinland) operate five MD-90's but not new, they have said MD-90 is too big for their needs, probably trying get rid of them.

Yes, but aren't those MD-90's leased from SAS. So I guess they will be the ones selling them away, or?

Quoting LH4116 (Reply 25): Yes, but aren't those MD-90's leased from SAS. So I guess they will be the ones selling them away, or?

Yes, SAS owns a total of 8 MD-90s where 5 of them are with Blue1 (aka SAS Finland), while the 3 remaining are with Hello

I flew on one of these from ATL-BWI a month ago and absolutely loved it.

I think DL is making the right decision. What is a passenger capacity in DL configurations? The flight I was on was FULL.


OURBOEING

Quoting AlexInWa (Reply 8): What's the reason for getting more MD-90's? What will they replace?

We are getting them because nobody wants the orphan jets. With a fleet size of only 16 we had to either dump them or grow the fleet. We can pick up a good used airframe for nothing vs a new build 738. If we had dumped them we would have most likely only got scrap value for them.

It isn't a bad airframe, well actually most mechanics hate them. Our canceled order most likely killed the production line and put a big knife in Mc Doug.

It is kinda a little off topic. I remember I was on one of the DL MD-90s and it had green mood-light. Was I seeing things or there are MD-90 with mood-light ?

It has always been puzzling me.

Thanks

Super 80

Quoting Andaman (Reply 24): Yes, Blue1 (SASFinland) operate five MD-90's but not new, they have said MD-90 is too big for their needs, probably trying get rid of them.

If they are too big, what will be the replacement airplane? I believe that the Avro RJ is not the most economical plane to have in a fleet. Having two types of planes (excluding turboprops) in with so few numbers of planes seems uneconomical and somehow confirms that the owner is SAS that has many different planes  

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 26): Yes, SAS owns a total of 8 MD-90s where 5 of them are with Blue1 (aka SAS Finland), while the 3 remaining are with Hello

Have SAS stated that they will sell their MD-90 airplanes?

Quoting Keesje (Reply 12): It make sense to concentrate a relative small serie of relatively yong aircraft aircraft with a limitted number of operators.. Smells like an opportunistic cheap deal NWA style..

Just out of curiousity, is Delta the largest Douglas user? I think this is great news as I am a huge fan of the MD series. They are the best alternative to the monotonous 320/737 you expect when getting on any other carrier. They are quirky, comfortable, quiet and a nice change to the norm.

Does this give us any indication as to whether or not Delta will stay American with their aircraft types? Will they ever place any Airbus orders? I'm leaning towards no.

Quoting Super80 (Reply 29): It is kinda a little off topic. I remember I was on one of the DL MD-90s and it had green mood-light. Was I seeing things or there are MD-90 with mood-light ? It has always been puzzling me. Thanks Super 80

It is actually a backlit illuminated hand rail (a strip of lighting, [LED if I remember correctly] runs along the backside of the handrail in the gab between it and the bins) along the entire length of the overhead bins. They made a big deal out of this when we first got the airplane, as if it were some fantastic safety breakthrough, having something to grab onto throughout the whole airplane if turbulence got bad.

Quoting Ourboeing (Reply 27): I think DL is making the right decision. What is a passenger capacity in DL configurations? The flight I was on was FULL.

Capacity is 12 F and 138 Y for a total of 150. Delta was hell-bent on having a 150 passenger airplane, the maximum number of seats that could be staffed with 3 flight attendants (FAA requires one F/A for every 50 seats).

This airplane is universally hated by Delta flight attendants, the galley configuration is attrocious and impossibly difficult to work.

Quoting SLCPDXATL (Reply 32): It is actually a backlit illuminated hand rail (a strip of lighting, [LED if I remember correctly] runs along the backside of the handrail in the gab between it and the bins) along the entire length of the overhead bins. They made a big deal out of this when we first got the airplane, as if it were some fantastic safety breakthrough, having something to grab onto throughout the whole airplane if turbulence got bad.

Thanks for sharing! For the longest time I thought I remember it incorrectly. I have only seen it once for all the flights on the DL MD-90. I hope they did not disable it. It looked cool thou.

Cool. Can't wait to fly on one for the first time. We should be on one on our flight home SLC to DTW in Sept. That is if they don't change it to a B73G.

Quoting SLCPDXATL (Reply 33): This airplane is universally hated by Delta flight attendants, the galley configuration is attrocious and impossibly difficult to work.

Any pics of these terrible galley configs?

The SAS MD90 galleys looked quite efficient and ergonomical when I flew them as a pax...

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 30): If they are too big, what will be the replacement airplane? I believe that the Avro RJ is not the most economical plane to have in a fleet. Having two types of planes (excluding turboprops) in with so few numbers of planes seems uneconomical and somehow confirms that the owner is SAS that has many different planes Smile

They might send over some MD-80 or 737s instead?

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 30): Have SAS stated that they will sell their MD-90 airplanes?

Not really, but if they get an decent offer I think they will without any hassle

Quoting SLCPDXATL (Reply 33): This airplane is universally hated by Delta flight attendants, the galley configuration is attrocious and impossibly difficult to work.

They don't serve much inflight so it should be such a big problem.. LOL

OK so it was Hello.. Where is Hello from??

Wops I got cut off, So we are getting three MD90's right, doe's anybody think that there going to replace the aging DC-9 30,40, and 50s??

"Hello" is a Swiss charter carrier (hence the HB- registrations). It operates bases at Basel BSL and Zürich ZRH.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 19): As crazy as it seemed, NW bought some 2nd hand DC-9's and DC-10's as recently as 2000.

Is the the 40s or the 50s that all came from other carriers?

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 22): But now that they are mature aircraft, how do the economics compare to the A320 and B738?

AFAIK they are all very close. They are not in the same family as the 733/7735/M80 family that everyone is dumping. The big problem with the 90 is the lack of range. (plus at frist it was a hangar queen)

Quoting DELTA7478 (Reply 40): So we are getting three MD90's right,

for now yes. They are trying to get more from China

Quoting DELTA7478 (Reply 40): doe's anybody think that there going to replace the aging DC-9 30,40, and 50s??

No. If the replace anything they will replace 88s or CRJs

According to DOT data, the 320 and M90 have very similar trip costs; RASM is a tad lower on DL's M90s because they hold more seats. They both are very efficient aircraft. For total costs given the M90 is not loved by a whole lot of airlines, the M90 is a good choice for the 2-4 hour flights the M90 will be most frequently used on while I certainly prefer the roomier cabin of the 320 on longer flights compared to the comparable Boeing model.

Quoting Timf (Reply 18): A quick search shows Delta has the following registrations reserved for these aircraft: N917DN N918DH N919DN

I think the current MD 90s are numbered N9xxDE.

safe

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 42): Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 19): As crazy as it seemed, NW bought some 2nd hand DC-9's and DC-10's as recently as 2000. Is the the 40s or the 50s that all came from other carriers?

All NW DC-9s came from other carriers. They never bought a new DC-9. Many were inherited from the Republic merger but they also bought a large number from various other carriers, including many from Eastern, Alitalia, SAS and Swissair, among others, when those carriers retired their DC-9 fleets (or, in the case of Eastern, went out of business).

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 45): All NW DC-9s came from other carriers. They never bought a new DC-9. Many were inherited from the Republic merger but they also bought a large number from various other carriers, including many from Eastern, Alitalia, SAS and Swissair, among others, when those carriers retired their DC-9 fleets (or, in the case of Eastern, went out of business).

ah ok. I though NW had ordered some 30s and 50s.

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 44): I think the current MD 90s are numbered N9xxDE.

Not true. They're numbered N9xxDA and N9xxDN for the current 16 MD-90s.

Jeremy

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 42):

No. If the replace anything they will replace 88s or CRJs

OHH ok, it makes more sence to repalce the gas thesty MD-88 and the small CRJ-200s.. I never like them anyways. I think the MD90 can do trips like ATL-GDL or JAX-LGA. I wonder if the three new birds will have the IFE system??

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 45): All NW DC-9s came from other carriers. They never bought a new DC-9. Many were inherited from the Republic merger but they also bought a large number from various other carriers, including many from Eastern, Alitalia, SAS and Swissair, among others, when those carriers retired their DC-9 fleets (or, in the case of Eastern, went out of business).

All the DC-10-30's also came from other carriers.Only the DC-10-40's were ordered new

Quoting DELTA7478 (Reply 48): I think the MD90 can do trips like ATL-GDL or JAX-LGA.

So can the MD-88.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 43): I certainly prefer the roomier cabin of the 320 on longer flights compared to the comparable Boeing model.

  

Quoting SLCPDXATL (Reply 33): This airplane is universally hated by Delta flight attendants, the galley configuration is attrocious and impossibly difficult to work.

You can blame the Delta management team that ordered the plane: they specified the galley configuration, McD built what was requested.

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 50): You can blame the Delta management team that ordered the plane: they specified the galley configuration, McD built what was requested.

Indeed, MD designed the plane to have many options for cabin config, as I recall.

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 37): They might send over some MD-80 or 737s instead?

Maybe the MD-87 can be a good intermediate replacement. IIRC they are stored at the moment?

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 37): Not really, but if they get an decent offer I think they will without any hassle

If DL offered, I guess SAS would sell them instantly. The 8 MD-90 that SAS owns are to few and rare to make it in SAS fleet.

Does anybody know if DL bought the 3 MD-90 that are coming from Hello, or if they are leasing them? The reason why I am asking is that Hello leased these planes from SAS. Would be interesting to see if SAS sold 3 of their 8 MD-90 airplanes. Would'nt it make sense to sell all 8?

Continuing the thread, does anybody know if the Japan Airlines MD-90 are going any were anytime soon? If DL got those as well, they could get 16 more MD-90s.

And what about the Saudi Arabian MD-90. What are the odds for those going to the DL fleet? I know it has a different cockpit. Bur if DL took the old SAS, Japan Airlines as well as the Saudi Arabian planes they would have a fleet of 69 MD-90 airplanes.

Hello's HB-JIA is stored in Victorville with the new (old) registration N593BC.

The three new Delta MD-90s had nothing to do with SAS.

Quoting Viasa (Reply 53): The three new Delta MD-90s had nothing to do with SAS.

Thank you for that information IIRC Hello at one point operated 6 MD-90 airplanes. 3 of them from SAS. I guess the SAS planes at Hello will stay for now.

But I hope DL at one point will take the SK MD-90's

Keep in mind that part of the hindrance to DL completing transactions to acquire more M90s is the credit crisis; very few companies have the access to credit they had a couple years ago. Even though lease prices are depressed because of weak demand for aircraft, DL still has to be able to obtain financing or pay for the aircraft out of their own funds. Even with the low value of the M90, using pressure cash to buy assets that will probably still be there in 6 months or a year doesn't make a whole lot of sense until the economy starts to turn around and credit begins to loosen.

Finally, after two years of rumors, it is finally true.

I wonder if DL will install IFE on these MD-90s to match the rest of the MD-90 fleet.

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 49): All the DC-10-30's also came from other carriers.Only the DC-10-40's were ordered new

Did NWA have D10-10s? or just 30s and 40s?

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 52): Does anybody know if DL bought the 3 MD-90 that are coming from Hello, or if they are leasing them? The reason why I am asking is that Hello leased these planes from SAS. Would be interesting to see if SAS sold 3 of their 8 MD-90 airplanes. Would'nt it make sense to sell all 8?

These birds are comeing from Boeing. Now I don't know if Delta is leasing them or buying them but the deal is through Boeing.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 55): Keep in mind that part of the hindrance to DL completing transactions to acquire more M90s is the credit crisis; very few companies have the access to credit they had a couple years ago. Even though lease prices are depressed because of weak demand for aircraft, DL still has to be able to obtain financing or pay for the aircraft out of their own funds. Even with the low value of the M90, using pressure cash to buy assets that will probably still be there in 6 months or a year doesn't make a whole lot of sense until the economy starts to turn around and credit begins to loosen.

The reason that DL hasn't gotten the China brids is due to the governement(China's) is takeing its dear sweet a** time to aprove it. Should be a done deal b the end of the year.
But you do bring up a good point. Money for aircraft is hard to come by. This is why Delta is going after more 90s vs new 738s.

Quoting Manfredj (Reply 31): Just out of curiousity, is Delta the largest Douglas user?

AA has the largest fleet of the MD80 series. DL through the years has been a loyal customer of Douglas. During the 50's the big Doug propliners were in heavy use at DL. When the jet age dawned DL picked up the DC8 and DC9. They operated the DC10 a couple of times. I don't think they ordered any directly from Douglas. Some were leased from UAL while waiting for the L1011. They also got some in the Western merger. The MD11's were purchased new.

Quoting DALMD88 (Reply 58): They operated the DC10 a couple of times. I don't think they ordered any directly from Douglas. Some were leased from UAL while waiting for the L1011.

They ordered them from Douglas, sold them to UA and then leased them back while waiting for the Tristar.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 55): Keep in mind that part of the hindrance to DL completing transactions to acquire more M90s is the credit crisis; very few companies have the access to credit they had a couple years ago. Even though lease prices are depressed because of weak demand for aircraft, DL still has to be able to obtain financing or pay for the aircraft out of their own funds. Even with the low value of the M90, using pressure cash to buy assets that will probably still be there in 6 months or a year doesn't make a whole lot of sense until the economy starts to turn around and credit begins to loosen.

WT, at $8-9M a piece, DL could pay for these out of petty cash and not think twice. Other issues are at play.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 57): The reason that DL hasn't gotten the China brids is due to the governement(China's) is takeing its dear sweet a** time to aprove it. Should be a done deal b the end of the year.

How many -90s is Delta going to or supposed to get from China?

Quoting C767P (Reply 61): How many -90s is Delta going to or supposed to get from China?

Probably all of China Eastern's and China Southern's as Delta wants to build the fleet up to 50 airframes. With 3 from Hello and now rumors that 3 ex SAS machines are now at VCV, they'll still need 6 more to make the magic 50 number.

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 62): Probably all of China Eastern's and China Southern's as Delta wants to build the fleet up to 50 airframes. With 3 from Hello and now rumors that 3 ex SAS machines are now at VCV, they'll still need 6 more to make the magic 50 number.

Delta wont be taking the 2 90s made in China.
11 from CZ
9 from MU
I would expect once Lion Air gets the 737s to replace there M90s that Delta will take there 5 as well.
Giving them a fleet of 44 aircraft.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 57): Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 49): All the DC-10-30's also came from other carriers.Only the DC-10-40's were ordered new Did NWA have D10-10s? or just 30s and 40s?

Only -30s and -40s.

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 62): and now rumors that 3 ex SAS machines are now at VCV

I do not believe that there are 3 ex SAS machines on their way to DL. Sorry if I contributed to making it look like they were taking 3 planes. I asked questions about the SAS deal because I believe they would have gotten rid of all 8 instead of just 3. Hello has been leasing 3 MD-90 airplanes from SAS and another 3 from Boeing. With 3 going to DL the confusion was it these came from SAS or Boeing. Since it was later stated that these planes were not from SAS the 3 MD-90 airplanes will be flying for Hello for some more time. Or so it seems.

A bit of topic, but how are Hello doing? A bit of an odd charter company flying MD-90 airplanes. Cool though  

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 65): I do not believe that there are 3 ex SAS machines on their way to DL. Sorry if I contributed to making it look like they were taking 3 planes. I asked questions about the SAS deal because I believe they would have gotten rid of all 8 instead of just 3. Hello has been leasing 3 MD-90 airplanes from SAS and another 3 from Boeing. With 3 going to DL the confusion was it these came from SAS or Boeing. Since it was later stated that these planes were not from SAS the 3 MD-90 airplanes will be flying for Hello for some more time. Or so it seems.

The 3 from Hello are Boeing not the SAS birds.
Some people are saying that Delta has 6 M90s on the way. AFAIK its only 3(at this time)
regs.
N917DN
N918DH
N919DN

According to CH-Aviation 9 MD-90 airplanes from China Eastern is heading to DL. With the 3 from Hello they will be getting 12 MD-90 airplanes. A total of 28 will be in the fleet if all goes according to this plan.

What will happen to the Lion Air MD-90 airplanes? The 4 airplanes were originally delivered to Reno Air, and then flew with American. They are currently stored.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 66): The 3 from Hello are Boeing not the SAS birds.

[quote=OyKIE,reply=65]I do not believe that there are 3 ex SAS machines on their way to DL[/quote

Please see below

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ma...test-greatest-about-delta-743.html

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 62): now rumors that 3 ex SAS machines are now at VCV

I'm not sure these are sitting at VCV because if they are they're hiding them really well.

FX1816

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 68): Please see below

He is wrong
If he is right they are hiding them and no ones about them. This also mean Anderson who said they have 3 ordered with more on the way.

Maybe they can get the old Kurosawa JAS MD-90s too that JAL repainted? JAL has been getting 737s lately...who knows.

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 52): And what about the Saudi Arabian MD-90. What are the odds for those going to the DL fleet? I know it has a different cockpit. Bur if DL took the old SAS, Japan Airlines as well as the Saudi Arabian planes they would have a fleet of 69 MD-90 airplanes.

Yes, I think the ex-SV MD-90s would do well for Delta. SV's replacing the MD-90 fleet with A320 aircraft, and Delta could easily get a good deal on them. But they're so old they'd need a good refit for service with DL (unless they couldn't care less, of course).

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 70): Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 68): Please see below He is wrong If he is right they are hiding them and no ones about them. This also mean Anderson who said they have 3 ordered with more on the way.

Ok, you do know that all I was saying is that I haven't seen an SK MD-90's here at VCV. I'm not saying that DL is not getting ones from SK just that I haven't seen them come in and I don't see them parked on the ramp.

FX1816

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 57): Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 49): All the DC-10-30's also came from other carriers.Only the DC-10-40's were ordered new Did NWA have D10-10s? or just 30s and 40s?

NW never had any DC-10-10's

They ordered their DC-10-40's in the early/mid 1970's, which were retired between 2000-2002

The DC-10-30's were all obtained 2nd hand between ~1992 and 2000. NW had A330's and A340's on order in the early 90's but had to deffer the order due to the economic slump and poor financial condition in the early 90's.

Once they signed the alliance with KLM, in 1992 or 1993 they rapidly needed to expand their Trans-Atlantic operations, so the most cost-effective option (and financially viable at the time) was to obtain a bunch of 2nd hand DC-10-30's that had come available during the downturn. NW acquired DC-10-30's from Swissair, KLM, JAL, etc.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 74): JAL, etc.

I don't believe that JAL ever had DC-10-30's but I could be wrong.

FX1816

How many batches of MD90's were produced in China? It is definately a different beast than the MD8X series ac.

Quoting RB211 (Reply 76): How many batches of MD90's were produced in China?

Only two aircraft were made. Both are with CZ.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 77): Only two aircraft were made. Both are with CZ.

Thanks. BTW love your user name. Delta L-1011 oc Forever!!!

Quoting FX1816 (Reply 75): Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 74): JAL, etc. I don't believe that JAL ever had DC-10-30's but I could be wrong.

Yes JL only operated the DC-10-40. JL and NW were the only customers for the P&W-powered -40 (22 for NW, 20 for JL).

As previously mentioned, all of NW's 24 DC-10-30s were acquired used. Their original operators were as follows. Several had more than one operator before NW:

Swissair - 8
Thai - 4
Korean - 3
Varig - 3
Japan Air System - 2
KLM - 2
Malaysian - 1
SAS - 1

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 60): WT, at $8-9M a piece, DL could pay for these out of petty cash and not think twice. Other issues are at play.

There are clearly other issues at play but DL is not interested in acquiring just one M90 so the cost to acquire the fleet is more than $100M for the numbers of a/c that DL needs to justify the expense of adding more M90s and those amounts are not chump change.

DL may have more than $5B in cash on hand but there are a whole lot of reasons they want to keep it that way. There are alot of really worthwhile projects they would like to fund but are not, many of which cost alot less than buying the used M90s. Until credit markets relax, DL and other companie are going to move slowly in spending on assets that are not immediately core to the business. There are clear efficiencies and savings to be gained from acquiring used M90s but it does come at a cost that might not be necessary now at the expense of other projects.

One of the other issues that you address is likely the issue of representation. The M90 is a "DL" aircraft. There will clearly be some M90s acquired for the purpose of acquiring retired DL metal but there are also retirements occurring on the NW side. Until the representation issues are fully resolved, acquiring M90s while not having equal replacements for retiring NW a/c or in order to replace NW aircraft is a recipe for a representation war.

Quoting Xdlx (Reply 15): Could Tech Ops hang two derrated V2500 on the DC9 and make it go another 20 years

Or just keep on doing what they have been and make it go another 20 years.

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 68): Please see below

Maybe the forum

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 68): Quoting OyKIE,reply=65: I do not believe that there are 3 ex SAS machines on their way to DL Please see below

Could he be mistaken? Hello had 6 MD-90. 3 from SAS. 3 leased from Boeing. It would be easy to jump to the conclusion that 3 MD-90's coming from Hello are the SAS planes. But according to Delta1011man these 3 are coming from Boeing.

Quoting Directorguy (Reply 72): Yes, I think the ex-SV MD-90s would do well for Delta. SV's replacing the MD-90 fleet with A320 aircraft, and Delta could easily get a good deal on them. But they're so old they'd need a good refit for service with DL (unless they couldn't care less, of course).

They are not that old. The oldes is 11 years old. The newest one is 9 years old. IIRC they got the last MD-90 that was made. However they have a hybrid 717/MD-88 cockpit, so I am not sure if they have a crew commonality between the SV birds and the DL birds. Could be an idea to upgrade the cockpit in the DL birds like the cockpits on the SV birds   

Picture of the SV MD-90 from Wikipedia:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 80): Until credit markets relax, DL and other companie are going to move slowly in spending on assets that are not immediately core to the business.

According to CH-aviation there will be some MD-90's from China for DL

Just an update about Hello Airplanes.

Here are some infor on Hello's web page:

Quote: Leasing agreements for three Boeing MD-90 aircraft were signed with Boeing Capital Corpoation in April 2004.

Quote: In autumn 2005, three more Boeing MD-90s were leased from SAS Scandinavian Airlines System, of which two have been operating under an ACMI agreement on behalf of an Icelandic partner throughout the year, and the third one during the summer season for a three year period.

http://www.hello.ch/compagnie/historique.html?L=2

Not sure what an ACMI agreement is,but it seems like at least 1 SAS MD-90 airplane are on lease until autumn 2009. Not sure what will happen after that-




I like this part being a McDonnel Douglas fan  

Quote: After a very thorough investigation Hello selected the Boeing MD-90. There are a number of good reasons for this decision. The MD-90 is a modern, elegant twin-engine aircraft, being operated since 1995 by various airlines. It has an extremely low noise level which is substantially below that of the Airbus A320 and the Boeing 737, this difference is noticeable to the passengers. Additionally the Boeing MD-90 has low fuel consumption (around 15% lower than the better known MD-80). These characteristics together with the low noxious emissions achieved by its intelligent design make the MD-90 an environment-friendly aircraft. On top of this, statistics prove it is technically a very reliable aircraft.

http://www.hello.ch/flotte.html?L=2

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 83): After a very thorough investigation Hello selected the Boeing MD-90. There are a number of good reasons for this decision

I'm a fan too and it is indeed water under the bridge but if this aircraft had been introduced with a modernized wing, the skies today might have been full of 'em

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 83): Not sure what an ACMI agreement is

A wet lease.

"Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance, Insurance". All provided by lessor under the lease. Lessee pays/provides everything else. Generally speaking, only certificated carriers can wet lease aircraft from someone else.

A dry lease is a financing lease.

A full-service charter is when you pay the charter airline one price that covers everything for your group's trip on the aircraft, including fuel, ground handling, catering, etc., not covered in a wet lease.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 80): One of the other issues that you address is likely the issue of representation. The M90 is a "DL" aircraft. There will clearly be some M90s acquired for the purpose of acquiring retired DL metal but there are also retirements occurring on the NW side. Until the representation issues are fully resolved, acquiring M90s while not having equal replacements for retiring NW a/c or in order to replace NW aircraft is a recipe for a representation war.

huh? M90s going to replace the DC9s/757s or 744s? Nooooooo. These aircraft (at least what they are telling the pilots/TechOps) are for mainline growth not cuts. Now its doen't mean cuts wont happen. Quick way to drop 3 CR2s? By a 150 seat M90 and cut 2 flights. The M90s have to do with Governmentsand lack of aircaft that Delta see as "good" aircraft and wont take a bunch of money to fix. Money for the aircraft and Representation hae nothing to do with it.
FYI th 90s will be used to pump up ATL and SLC flights. It (like the 753) is one of the few aircraft type that wont be moving around to much Post SOC.

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 82): However they have a hybrid 717/MD-88 cockpit, so I am not sure if they have a crew commonality between the SV birds and the DL birds. Could be an idea to upgrade the cockpit in the DL birds like the cockpits on the SV birds

But then they would lose commonality with their MD-88 fleet.

Quoting FX1816 (Reply 73): Ok, you do know that all I was saying is that I haven't seen an SK MD-90's here at VCV. I'm not saying that DL is not getting ones from SK just that I haven't seen them come in and I don't see them parked on the ramp.

According to Widgetheads.net this is the reason why.....


"Three MD-90s Coming From Hello Airlines
May 20, 2009
Well it hasn't been announced (nor is it likely that it ever will), but the puzzle pieces have been put together. Not only have rumors on the web turned into more precise info, but I've also been able to confirm it with internal sources. Delta will be receiving three MD-90-30s that were previously operated by Hello Airlines. Here is the info for the three aircraft:
MSN Mfg Date Old Reg Reserved Reg Future Ship No Notes
53552 Nov 96 HB-JIA N917DN 9217 Arrived in VCV on 4/1/09 via ARN, KEF, and BGR
53553 Nov 96 HB-JIB N918DH 9218 Will arrive in VCV Oct/Nov 09
53576 Aug 97 HB-JIC N919DN 9219 Will arrive in VCV Oct/Nov 09


All three of these aircraft are less then 13 years old. In those 13 years they have flown for no less then 10 different carriers, combined. And no one flew for the same carrier more then 4 consecutive years.

It is unknown when the first one will be ready to enter service for Delta Air Lines. When it does, I'm sure Delta will use it for many years to come, as well as the others."



According to that, only one has arrived in VCV, the other two will arrive in Oct/Nov of 09.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 86): FYI th 90s will be used to pump up ATL and SLC flights.

DL as well as other US network carriers have less domestic capacity than they have had for years; when there really is growth on anyone's domestic network, let me know.


Remember that DL pulled a bunch of 763s and 4s out of domestic markets and replaced them with smaller aircraft as capacity was reduced. Yes, some of the capacity could be used to replace CRJs or 75s; it is not necessarily a one for one replacement nor is it necessarily an aircraft to aircraft type replacement. There could well be M90s used to replace D9s or 757s along with adjustments in the capacity in the market.

Quoting Mayor (Reply 88): Quoting FX1816 (Reply 73): Ok, you do know that all I was saying is that I haven't seen an SK MD-90's here at VCV. I'm not saying that DL is not getting ones from SK just that I haven't seen them come in and I don't see them parked on the ramp. According to Widgetheads.net this is the reason why..... "Three MD-90s Coming From Hello Airlines May 20, 2009 Well it hasn't been announced (nor is it likely that it ever will), but the puzzle pieces have been put together. Not only have rumors on the web turned into more precise info, but I've also been able to confirm it with internal sources. Delta will be receiving three MD-90-30s that were previously operated by Hello Airlines. Here is the info for the three aircraft: MSN Mfg Date Old Reg Reserved Reg Future Ship No Notes 53552 Nov 96 HB-JIA N917DN 9217 Arrived in VCV on 4/1/09 via ARN, KEF, and BGR 53553 Nov 96 HB-JIB N918DH 9218 Will arrive in VCV Oct/Nov 09 53576 Aug 97 HB-JIC N919DN 9219 Will arrive in VCV Oct/Nov 09 All three of these aircraft are less then 13 years old. In those 13 years they have flown for no less then 10 different carriers, combined. And no one flew for the same carrier more then 4 consecutive years. It is unknown when the first one will be ready to enter service for Delta Air Lines. When it does, I'm sure Delta will use it for many years to come, as well as the others." According to that, only one has arrived in VCV, the other two will arrive in Oct/Nov of 09

Thank you for that, that is what I figured I was just confused when someone else said that there are 3 MD-90's here in VCV for DL. I drive by there daily and have only ever seen one so I was confused.

FX1816

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 89): DL as well as other US network carriers have less domestic capacity than they have had for years; when there really is growth on anyone's domestic network, let me know.

I didn't say they said real growth. I said mainline growth. As more 50 seaters come from SLC and ATL more 90s will replace them. That is mainline growth but Delta as a whole doesn't grow.  

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 89): Remember that DL pulled a bunch of 763s and 4s out of domestic markets and replaced them with smaller aircraft as capacity was reduced. Yes, some of the capacity could be used to replace CRJs or 75s; it is not necessarily a one for one replacement nor is it necessarily an aircraft to aircraft type replacement. There could well be M90s used to replace D9s or 757s along with adjustments in the capacity in the market.

Oh did they? I missed it. I've been under a ROCK for 10 years.  
Dude. You say and look at it how ever you want.   BTW you forgot the part on how Delta is the largest airline because of this and they will one day very soon take over the world and what not.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 91): Oh did they? I missed it. I've been under a ROCK for 10 years. Dude. You say and look at it how ever you want. BTW you forgot the part on how Delta is the largest airline because of this and they will one day very soon take over the world and what not.

I don't believe that he ever said that Delta would "take over the world and what not". Is that something you just made up on the spur of the moment. As far as calling him Dude, I thought that went out along with every other word being "like".

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 91): I didn't say they said real growth. I said mainline growth

No, you never said mainline growth.