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Topic: Runway Incursions At CLE--NTSB To Investigate
Username: Greenair727
Posted 2009-06-30 22:52:50 and read 2194 times.

what's going on at CLE?

see release below:


NTSB ADVISORY
************************************************************

National Transportation Safety Board
Washington, DC 20594

June 30, 2009

************************************************************

NTSB INVESTIGATING RUNWAY INCURSIONS IN CLEVELAND

************************************************************

The National Transportation Safety Board is investigating
two runway incursions that occurred at Cleveland Hopkins
International Airport (CLE) in Cleveland, Ohio.

The most recent occurred at 8:56 a.m. EDT on Friday, June
26, 2009. Express Jet flight 2426, an E-145, was cleared by
the tower developmental controller to cross runway 24L at
taxiway S in order to depart from runway 24R. Approximately
19 seconds later, the same controller cleared CommutAir
flight 8717, a DH8, for takeoff on runway 24L. The Express
Jet flight crew saw the departing airplane and advised the
tower controller they would not cross the runway. CommutAir
8717 rotated about 1,500 feet from where Express Jet 2426
was positioned.

The incident is the second of its kind at CLE in three
weeks. On June 3, 2009, at 3:15 p.m. EDT, a runway incursion
occurred in which a B-737 was cleared by a developmental
controller to taxi into position the same runway on which an
E-145 was cleared and entering for take-off. The E-145 crew
saw the B737 and queried the tower controller. The two
flights came within 500 feet of each other on runway 6L.
This was the same developmental controller involved in the
June 26 incident.

# # #

NTSB Media Contact: Peter Knudson
(202) 314-6100
peter.knudson@ntsb.gov

Topic: RE: Runway Incursions At CLE--NTSB To Investigate
Username: Apodino
Posted 2009-06-30 23:14:53 and read 2166 times.



Quoting Greenair727 (Thread starter):
This was the same developmental controller involved in the
June 26 incident

This is a key thing right here. You are seeing more and more of these developmental controllers since ATC is faced with a severe staffing shortage at the moment, and they just can't get new people trained fast enough. So you end up with Developmental controllers half the time, and its not just here, but in some of the busiest Approach facilities (Think SOCAL) in the country. This is very scary, and I hate to say it, but the nation is still feeling the effects of PATCO. I think Ronald Reagan made a big mistake then. (And I am usually an RR supporter)


That being said, CLE is notorious for runway incursions. One big problem you always had there was the fact that the former 6C-24C was very close to 6R-24L. So close in fact, that if you were crossing both runways, you would actually come up on the hold short lines for 6R-24L before you were actually clear of 6C-24C, so there was not only no way to hold short of 6R-24L without clearing 6C-24C, but this also caused a lot of confusion among pilots on which lines to hold short of. I was in the jumpseat into CLE one time, and this was a point I reminded the pilots after we landed just to remind them to stay alert and vigilant. It's not as big a problem anymore, now that 6C-24C has been decomissioned, but still, its an airport you have to be alert at.

Topic: RE: Runway Incursions At CLE--NTSB To Investigate
Username: UnattendedBag
Posted 2009-07-01 07:21:01 and read 2016 times.



Quoting Greenair727 (Thread starter):
a runway incursion
occurred in which a B-737 was cleared by a developmental
controller to taxi into position the same runway on which an
E-145 was cleared and entering for take-off.

I can't make sense of this one.


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