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Topic: WN And MDW To OKC, TUL, JAX, BOI...
Username: NomoreRJs
Posted 2009-07-15 19:32:57 and read 5187 times.

Okay, we all know that WN does not have "hubs" per say, but MDW is home to many flights and almost always gets nonstops to new cities (unless they are 80 miles north)!

There are a few holes missing in the WN MDW route map, most noticeably OKC, TUL, JAX, BOI and to some extent ELP, GEG, SNA, and ONT. To a lesser extent AMA / LBB and the Rio Grande Valley (although MFE could work to MDW). When Wright (or Wrong) is gone in several years, DAL is a given. What else is next for WN at MDW (ATL, CLT, CVG, DCA, DSM, FAR, FSD, MEM, SYR)?

Any thoughts on this?

Topic: RE: WN And MDW To OKC, TUL, JAX, BOI...
Username: Jmc1975
Posted 2009-07-15 21:04:23 and read 4996 times.

HOU to MCI has been long overdue.

Topic: RE: WN And MDW To OKC, TUL, JAX, BOI...
Username: FutureUScapt
Posted 2009-07-15 21:06:05 and read 4991 times.

Both MDW-SNA and HOU-MCI have been tried in the past.

Topic: RE: WN And MDW To OKC, TUL, JAX, BOI...
Username: SurfandSnow
Posted 2009-07-15 21:37:55 and read 4921 times.

UA's longstanding ORD-GEG flight was briefly cut, but now that it has returned (under the auspices of United Express, mind you), United once again has that small niche market covered. As UA has considerably more feed from ORD than WN from MDW, I don't see how WN could ever make a MDW-GEG flight work. Ditto for BOI, another small market where UA is firmly established and at a clear advantage with its major (international) ORD hub.

MDW-SNA was operated by WN in the past, I'm surprised that it didn't work for them, but then again AA's JFK-SNA flights didn't work out either, and WN now offers DEN-SNA to connect pax to the Midwest/East.

ELP is very well-served from ORD, with AA's service and UAX starting up soon. ONT hasn't had ORD service in a long time, I've never understood how that city sustains daily flights to ATL (DL) and BNA (WN) but not one to Chicago. I would think WN could do well with a MDW-ONT link, but surely WN route planners know better.

As for OKC, TUL, and JAX, those do seem obvious candidates for n/s WN service, especially seeing as how the Oklahoman stations can serve DAL for the time being. UA ran AA off the ORD-JAX run, so I guess that market is pretty small, but it is still a popular business and leisure destination.

The other 2 important cities you forgot were BUR and PBI. Both of these cities are ostensibly served via nearby LAX and FLL (which both have multiple daily n/s flights to MDW), but are important stations in their own right. I suppose the BUR TV execs and haughty PBI crowd would never be caught dead on a Southwest flight anyhow, but still, the leisure pax alone from the San Fernando Valley and Northern Miami corridor should be able to fill a daily flight to Midway, right?

Still though, service to all of the airline's markets in the East, South (ex. Florida), Midwest, and West (with a few obvious exceptions) is not bad at all!! WN has transformed MDW from a sleepy rundown facility to a major national hub and serious alternative to delay-prone ORD.

Topic: RE: WN And MDW To OKC, TUL, JAX, BOI...
Username: Ouboy79
Posted 2009-07-15 21:50:19 and read 4898 times.



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 3):
As for OKC, TUL, and JAX, those do seem obvious candidates for n/s WN service, especially seeing as how the Oklahoman stations can serve DAL for the time being. UA ran AA off the ORD-JAX run, so I guess that market is pretty small, but it is still a popular business and leisure destination.

I think we were lucky enough to BWI service...granted that was only in response to UA to IAD. And service to LAS...which was to run G4 out. So MDW...errrr, not holding my breath.

Topic: RE: WN And MDW To OKC, TUL, JAX, BOI...
Username: Swalifebtw
Posted 2009-07-16 01:18:45 and read 4781 times.

Since we're on this topic...I think LAX to PDX and SEA are long over do.

Topic: RE: WN And MDW To OKC, TUL, JAX, BOI...
Username: Sxf24
Posted 2009-07-16 06:16:53 and read 4659 times.



Quoting Swalifebtw (Reply 5):
Since we're on this topic...I think LAX to PDX and SEA are long over do.

These markets, while large, are dominated by AS. They would vigorously defend, and it would be an even bigger blood bath than it already is, particularly out of SEA.

Topic: RE: WN And MDW To OKC, TUL, JAX, BOI...
Username: Super80DFW
Posted 2009-07-16 06:26:41 and read 4644 times.



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 3):
As for OKC, TUL, and JAX, those do seem obvious candidates for n/s WN service, especially seeing as how the Oklahoman stations can serve DAL for the time being. UA ran AA off the ORD-JAX run, so I guess that market is pretty small, but it is still a popular business and leisure destination.

WN only added OKC-DEN because it'd be an easy routing for a WN onestop for DAL-DEN. I could only see WN adding OKC-MDW if DAL-MDW needed more capacity.

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 4):
I think we were lucky enough to BWI service...granted that was only in response to UA to IAD. And service to LAS...which was to run G4 out. So MDW...errrr, not holding my breath.

The BWI flights go out very full all the time, as does UA's CR7. And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't G4 end their scheduled OKC-LAS service a long time ago? I'm thinking if OKC-LAS was just a "response", WN probably wouldn't be flying it anymore.

Topic: RE: WN And MDW To OKC, TUL, JAX, BOI...
Username: Okie
Posted 2009-07-16 07:41:47 and read 4570 times.



Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 7):
WN only added OKC-DEN because it'd be an easy routing for a WN onestop for DAL-DEN

I would more likely to say that it was more to feed DEN picking SLF off of UA, although routing makes sense if you figure the WA into the equation.

DAL-OKC-MDW, DAL-TUL-MDW, DAL-OKC-TUL-MDW does seem to make sense on paper the catch right now seems to be that as long as the WA is in effect OKC and TUL are served through DAL, STL, DEN other than a few existing direct flights as far as WN is concerned.

After the WA falls to the wayside I would not necessarily think that there will be any major increase in traffic at DAL but you are going to see a major shift in routes for WA states. Then it will be a question where WA cities like OKC,TUL, ABQ will be connected to hubs.

Okie

Topic: RE: WN And MDW To OKC, TUL, JAX, BOI...
Username: Ouboy79
Posted 2009-07-16 07:57:27 and read 4533 times.



Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 7):
And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't G4 end their scheduled OKC-LAS service a long time ago? I'm thinking if OKC-LAS was just a "response", WN probably wouldn't be flying it anymore.

Actually I misspoke and should have said US instead of G4. However, once WN went to more than just Saturday only service to LAS...it was a couple months (give or take) later that US pulled out. Then WorryFree/Champion pulled service down and WN was the only one left in the market...so whatever market WN hadn't won yet, they got the rest of it there (except for those that still connect on the other guys).

Topic: RE: WN And MDW To OKC, TUL, JAX, BOI...
Username: AWACSooner
Posted 2009-07-16 09:57:33 and read 4397 times.



Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 7):

The BWI flights go out very full all the time, as does UA's CR7. And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't G4 end their scheduled OKC-LAS service a long time ago? I'm thinking if OKC-LAS was just a "response", WN probably wouldn't be flying it anymore.

OKC-MDW n/s is probably the one key segment missing from OKC's WN network. It's always a one hopper through MCI or STL. That being said, if it ever does happen, look for the MCI n/s to go away just like TUL. I wish they would restart the MCO Saturday n/s.

Topic: RE: WN And MDW To OKC, TUL, JAX, BOI...
Username: Super80DFW
Posted 2009-07-16 12:08:21 and read 4278 times.



Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 10):
I wish they would restart the MCO Saturday n/s.

I have a feeling they didn't restart it this summer due to the resession. If the economy starts looking up, I could see OKC-MCO saturday service next summer.

Topic: RE: WN And MDW To OKC, TUL, JAX, BOI...
Username: SW733
Posted 2009-07-16 12:11:18 and read 4275 times.



Quoting NomoreRJs (Thread starter):
ONT

I fly ONT-MDW montly on a 1 stop (same plane) service via PHX, and love it. I think that's pretty good. Sure, nonstop would be great, but WN prefers to route their small SoCal routes (namely SNA, BUR, ONT) via PHX or LAS, so there must be something there they find better than doing longer nonstops.

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 1):
HOU to MCI

 yes 

Topic: RE: WN And MDW To OKC, TUL, JAX, BOI...
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2009-07-16 18:28:58 and read 4105 times.



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 3):
UA ran AA off the ORD-JAX run, so I guess that market is pretty small, but it is still a popular business and leisure destination.

AA's lack of a decent aircraft for the job ran them off of ORD-JAX. That route left a lot of passengers on a lot of days.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 3):
Ditto for BOI, another small market where UA is firmly established and at a clear advantage with its major (international) ORD hub.

One thing that is sort of interesting about GEG versus BOI is that there are generally more connecting options (on WN) to BOI; checking a few random cities in the eastern half of the country, I usually see at least twice as many options for BOI as for GEG. MDW-GEG might make more sense from a network connectivity perspective than MDW-BOI.

Topic: RE: WN And MDW To OKC, TUL, JAX, BOI...
Username: F9fan
Posted 2009-07-16 20:07:53 and read 4043 times.

Well, WN didn't serve the Pacific NW (SEA, PDX, GEG, BOI, SLC) until they bought out Reno Air back in the late '90s. WN really hasn't done much to beef up those cities, either. GEG and BOI seem fairly small to justify a 737, but WN seems to make it work.

Quoting NomoreRJs (Thread starter):
There are a few holes missing in the WN MDW route map, most noticeably OKC, TUL, JAX, BOI and to some extent ELP, GEG, SNA, and ONT. To a lesser extent AMA / LBB and the Rio Grande Valley (although MFE could work to MDW). When Wright (or Wrong) is gone in several years, DAL is a given. What else is next for WN at MDW (ATL, CLT, CVG, DCA, DSM, FAR, FSD, MEM, SYR)?

OK, now for our daily "where is WN going to next?" thread. CLT, MEM, and CVG are inevetable, ATL is out of the question unless they do something about the delay problems there (although I suspect most of the delays is the result of DL scheduling trying to have 80 flights take off at 8:00 am). DSM, FAR, FSD and SYR will see WN service after they get their bigger cities covered, although they have to justify enough passenger traffic to justify 8 737 flights a day to wherever WN flies to. FAT is a strong possibility, although we are most likely to see LAS, LAX, OAK, PHX, and DEN first out of there. When Wright goes bye-bye, DAL-MDW, DAL-DEN, DAL-BWI, DAL-PHX and DAL-LAS are given. However, keep in mind that DAL is not a very big airport, and we will sooner see Rush Limbaugh vote for Barack Obama than DAL expanded. DCA is out since that airport is slot restricted, and WN has BWI and IAD well covered.

I suspect we won't see anything until the economy starts showing life, which will be next year at the earliest.

Topic: RE: WN And MDW To OKC, TUL, JAX, BOI...
Username: MtnWest1979
Posted 2009-07-16 21:13:04 and read 3983 times.

Quoting F9fan (Reply 14):
Well, WN didn't serve the Pacific NW (SEA, PDX, GEG, BOI, SLC) until they bought out Reno Air back in the late '90s. WN really hasn't done much to beef up those cities, either. GEG and BOI seem fairly small to justify a 737, but WN seems to make it work.

First, I assume you mean Morris Air, since that is who WN purchased, not QQ.
Second, BOI has over 3M pax/year, so I would assume that we can handle our own out here. Although who knows how much economy will affect that. Off 17% so far this year. We had 3.185 mill in 08 which was off 5% from 07.
But that is still up 50% from 1995.  Smile
Anyway, we are definitely adequately served her in BOI, even when WN cuts two more trips this year.

[Edited 2009-07-16 21:14:51]

Topic: RE: WN And MDW To OKC, TUL, JAX, BOI...
Username: USAIRWAYS321
Posted 2009-07-16 23:40:53 and read 3919 times.



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 3):
UA's longstanding ORD-GEG flight was briefly cut, but now that it has returned (under the auspices of United Express, mind you), United once again has that small niche market covered. As UA has considerably more feed from ORD than WN from MDW, I don't see how WN could ever make a MDW-GEG flight work. Ditto for BOI, another small market where UA is firmly established and at a clear advantage with its major (international) ORD hub.

I don't really understand how MDW-BOI/GEG would be so difficult. Both BOI and GEG are very limited in non-stop service to the east. UA to ORD and NW to MSP are the only daily options east of DEN for both cities. BOI does have a DL 737-800 to ATL once weekly.

With the east-coast connecting opportunities that WN has at MDW, I would have to assume that they could make a -300 to MDW work maybe twice a day, certainly with much lower fares than the NW and UA flights to MSP and ORD, respectively.

There's really no convenient way to get to the east coast from either BOI or GEG on WN. They typically route through SLC to even get to MDW, and then a 2nd connection to go any farther.

Topic: RE: WN And MDW To OKC, TUL, JAX, BOI...
Username: Super80DFW
Posted 2009-07-17 06:02:20 and read 3828 times.



Quoting F9fan (Reply 14):
When Wright goes bye-bye, DAL-MDW, DAL-DEN, DAL-BWI, DAL-PHX and DAL-LAS are given

And those flights will come at the expense of lets say: a DAL-MCI-MDW, a DAL-AMA-DEN, a DAL-LIT-BWI, a DAL-ELP-PHX, and a DAL-MAF-LAS flight.

Topic: RE: WN And MDW To OKC, TUL, JAX, BOI...
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2009-07-18 05:47:52 and read 3512 times.



Quoting F9fan (Reply 14):
DCA is out since that airport is slot restricted,

As is LGA...

Quoting F9fan (Reply 14):
ATL is out of the question unless they do something about the delay problems there (although I suspect most of the delays is the result of DL scheduling trying to have 80 flights take off at 8:00 am).

Maybe I'm just not flying to or through ATL at the right times, but it's probably been two years since I waited in a takeoff queue of more than 8 planes (and FL's hub is more banked than DL's if you want to blame someone).

Quoting USAIRWAYS321 (Reply 16):
I don't really understand how MDW-BOI/GEG would be so difficult. Both BOI and GEG are very limited in non-stop service to the east.

I think BOI and GEG suffer from a uniquely WN problem: they are the end of the line. In smaller cities in the middle of the country (AMA, LIT, OMA, for instance), WN can fly marginal routes and use thru passengers to support them to a degree. That's not like a carrier like DL, for whom SLC-GEG probably gets routed SLC-GEG-SLC and SLC-OMA generally gets routed SLC-OMA-SLC. WN can do SLC-OMA-STL but can't as easily do that in BOI/GEG because in BOI and GEG, there's no good "beyond" destination but SEA.

You see this in other parts of the country, like Texas (CRP) and the northeast (BDL, MHT, PVD). It's less true in the southwest and Florida because most of the markets there are large (PHX, SAN, FLL, MCO). This is a challenge for WN in places like BOI and GEG that other carriers don't have.

Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 17):
And those flights will come at the expense of lets say: a DAL-MCI-MDW

To a degree, but there are certainly thru flights that prop up smaller routes elsewhere in the country (e.g. MDW-IND-JAX, which has been or shortly will be cut).

Topic: RE: WN And MDW To OKC, TUL, JAX, BOI...
Username: F9fan
Posted 2009-07-18 12:34:00 and read 3405 times.



Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 15):
First, I assume you mean Morris Air

You're right. My bad.  ashamed   embarrassed   footinmouth   guilty 

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 18):
As is LGA

True, but WN only served NYC out of ISP, which is 50 miles from Times Square. Heck, some folks south of Newark were closer to PHL. By comparison, BWI and IAD are both less than 40 miles from the White House in Washington, DC. Also, BWI has rail service from Union Station in DC, and there is a WMATA subway line under construction (or at least soon to be under construction) to IAD.

Topic: RE: WN And MDW To OKC, TUL, JAX, BOI...
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2009-07-19 18:24:17 and read 3175 times.



Quoting F9fan (Reply 19):
True, but WN only served NYC out of ISP, which is 50 miles from Times Square. Heck, some folks south of Newark were closer to PHL. By comparison, BWI and IAD are both less than 40 miles from the White House in Washington, DC. Also, BWI has rail service from Union Station in DC, and there is a WMATA subway line under construction (or at least soon to be under construction) to IAD.

I don't see the distinction. ISP is clearly less convenient than LGA, and (as you say), WN had NYC "bracketed" with PHL and ISP.

By the same token, BWI is clearly less convenient than DCA, and WN has D.C. "bracketed" with BWI and IAD.

Topic: RE: WN And MDW To OKC, TUL, JAX, BOI...
Username: MtnWest1979
Posted 2009-07-19 18:50:06 and read 3154 times.



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 18):
I think BOI and GEG suffer from a uniquely WN problem: they are the end of the line. In smaller cities in the middle of the country (AMA, LIT, OMA, for instance), WN can fly marginal routes and use thru passengers to support them to a degree. That's not like a carrier like DL, for whom SLC-GEG probably gets routed SLC-GEG-SLC and SLC-OMA generally gets routed SLC-OMA-SLC. WN can do SLC-OMA-STL but can't as easily do that in BOI/GEG because in BOI and GEG, there's no good "beyond" destination but SEA.

And PDX as well, plus including both BOI and GEG in same routing has done well,too. GEG-BOI-RNO, SLC-BOI-GEG, etc.


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