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Topic: Why Is 747-8F More Popular Than The A380F?
Username: WeirdLinguist
Posted 2009-07-21 14:02:09 and read 6486 times.

747-8F will be replacing 747-200/300F without increasing capacity like A380F would but at the same time:
1) 747-400 pax versions are gonna be retired by many airlines next 2-3 years, some of those would be converted to F (rest grounded and/or sold to second/third tier airlines)
2) No one knows for sure whether this project will even materialize but the A380 is already flying

Topic: RE: Why Is 747-8F More Popular Than The A380F?
Username: Scorpio
Posted 2009-07-21 14:08:51 and read 6460 times.



Quoting WeirdLinguist (Thread starter):
2) No one knows for sure whether this project will even materialize but the A380 is already flying

I think that at this time the chances of the 747-8F actually flying and being delivered are quite a bit bigger than the chances of the A380F ever flying...

Topic: RE: Why Is 747-8F More Popular Than The A380F?
Username: Khobar
Posted 2009-07-21 14:18:48 and read 6408 times.



Quoting WeirdLinguist (Thread starter):
47-8F will be replacing 747-200/300F without increasing capacity

Where did you get that idea from?

"The stretch provides customers with 16 percent more revenue cargo volume compared to its predecessor. That translates to four additional main-deck pallets and three additional lower-hold pallets." http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=755

Topic: RE: Why Is 747-8F More Popular Than The A380F?
Username: Stitch
Posted 2009-07-21 14:20:29 and read 6393 times.

The 747-8F is already in production, so your second comment is just being snarky or a sign of ignorance.

The 747-8F leverages the existing infrastructure at any cargo facility in the world designed to handle earlier model 747s whereas the A380-800F requires additional infrastructure to support operations on the upper deck. The A380-800F also has different load limits on each of it's cargo decks which means pallets destined for the upper deck need to be lighter so when they're interlined with single-deck freighters either upstream or downstream, they either go out at the same light weight or they need to be re-configured, both of which lowers efficiency and economics.

For these reasons, and likely others, the "heavy cargo" market did not show sufficient interest in the A380-800F to order it.

Topic: RE: Why Is 747-8F More Popular Than The A380F?
Username: SpeedBirdA380
Posted 2009-07-21 14:41:34 and read 6325 times.

Well the original A380F was cancelled and as far as I know there are no plans currently in the works to restart the A380 Freighter project.

And the 747-8F production is well under way so its no surprise the 747-8F is more popular compared to the A380 which is not even being developed......

Topic: RE: Why Is 747-8F More Popular Than The A380F?
Username: Ulfinator
Posted 2009-07-21 14:57:47 and read 6269 times.

Also don't forget that the positioning of the 748 having thecockpit over the cargo area, allowing for a nose door, compared to the cockpit being in between/slightly overlapping both decks on the A380F is a bonus for carriers of over-sized cargo.

Topic: RE: Why Is 747-8F More Popular Than The A380F?
Username: Keesje
Posted 2009-07-21 14:57:17 and read 6261 times.

Airbus decided to set priority on the passenger aircraft delaying the F for many yrs. Customer Fedex & UPS could not except.

Since then airlines bought the 8F only because it was so good. No alternative helps too.

In the next years scores of 747-400 will be replaced and become available for conversion into pretty good cargo arcraft. Price including D check << $100mln.



If those will become popular? If current 747 cargo fleets are an indication..

Topic: RE: Why Is 747-8F More Popular Than The A380F?
Username: Stitch
Posted 2009-07-21 16:09:24 and read 6101 times.



Quoting Keesje (Reply 6):
In the next years scores of 747-400 will be replaced and become available for conversion into pretty good cargo arcraft. Price including D check << $100mln.

Considering the number of 747-400 converted freighters being sent to VCV and other storage depots compared to the dedicated freighters, it appears the pax-to-freight conversions have inferior operating economics.

Either that, or everything being shipped is of a length that requires the nose-door.  angel 

Therefore, this might put a slight damper on cargo company's enthusiasm for the type since they only seem to really work when cargo demand is very strong and they can charge higher rates.

Topic: RE: Why Is 747-8F More Popular Than The A380F?
Username: 757GB
Posted 2009-07-21 16:24:50 and read 6068 times.

I would have to look for the information. There was a very good report on freighters not long ago which described that the pure freighter does indeed have better economics than a converted freighter. The disadvantage of course is the high initial investment on the pure freighter. I'll try to find that report because it makes very good reading...

Topic: RE: Why Is 747-8F More Popular Than The A380F?
Username: WeirdLinguist
Posted 2009-07-21 17:47:17 and read 5957 times.



Quoting Khobar (Reply 2):
Where did you get that idea from?

"The stretch provides customers with 16 percent more revenue cargo volume compared to its predecessor. That translates to four additional main-deck pallets and three additional lower-hold pallets." http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.ph...m=755

Might not have been clear enough, this thread is about 380f vs 747-8f so in comparison the -8F is a smaller increase

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
The 747-8F is already in production, so your second comment is just being snarky or a sign of ignorance.

Came across this article Boeing hints at possible reassessment of 747-8 programme http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ssessment-of-747-8-programme.html, skimmed through it. It didn't specifically say the -8I so I took it to mean that the entire project could be axed.

Topic: RE: Why Is 747-8F More Popular Than The A380F?
Username: Astuteman
Posted 2009-07-21 18:23:48 and read 5878 times.



Quoting WeirdLinguist (Thread starter):
No one knows for sure whether this project will even materialize but the A380 is already flying

This seems to be a strange comment in light of the information and pictures contained within this (current) thread...

Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8 (by Aviationbuff Jul 21 2009 in Civil Aviation)

A 748F has already materialised. It just needs completeing, testing, and delivering....

Rgds

Topic: RE: Why Is 747-8F More Popular Than The A380F?
Username: Thegeek
Posted 2009-07-21 19:06:34 and read 5772 times.

So, would an A388 combi have worked, pax on the upper deck and cargo on the main deck? I guess I know the answer, but why not?

Topic: RE: Why Is 747-8F More Popular Than The A380F?
Username: Stitch
Posted 2009-07-21 19:54:46 and read 5696 times.



Quoting Thegeek (Reply 11):
So, would an A388 combi have worked, pax on the upper deck and cargo on the main deck? I guess I know the answer, but why not?

I expect additional structure would have been needed to ensure that a fire on the cargo deck could not migrate into the passenger deck or prevent the heat from the fire from damaging the passenger cabin floor. You'd likely also need to isolate the passenger and cargo deck environments so smoke and toxic gases from a cargo deck fire would not infiltrate the passenger deck.

Topic: RE: Why Is 747-8F More Popular Than The A380F?
Username: Byrdluvs747
Posted 2009-07-21 20:03:20 and read 5673 times.



Quoting WeirdLinguist (Reply 9):
Came across this article Boeing hints at possible reassessment of 747-8 programme http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ssessment-of-747-8-programme.html, skimmed through it. It didn't specifically say the -8I so I took it to mean that the entire project could be axed.



Quoting WeirdLinguist (Thread starter):
No one knows for sure whether this project will even materialize but the A380 is already flying

Pretty lame & uninformed comments considering the plane is currently being assembled.


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