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Topic: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Aviationbuff
Posted 2009-07-21 07:15:20 and read 40364 times.

Boeing reveals full length 747-8

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ing-reveals-full-length-747-8.html

Quote:
Boieng has revealed the first glimpse of the full length of the 76.3m (250ft) fuselage of the 747-8 Freighter.

The new image shows that Boeing has started to join the wing and centre section with the forward and aft fuselage sections.



747-8 is on course and may fly before 787. The article also reports that Boeing has completed a critical design review for the 747-8I.

The great JumboJet legacy continues.....

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Scouseflyer
Posted 2009-07-21 07:24:23 and read 40283 times.

What a beauty of a bird! It's a shame that it won't reamin in the green primer colour it's great!

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: LY777
Posted 2009-07-21 07:36:38 and read 40146 times.

wow, looks so good and so loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Cha747
Posted 2009-07-21 07:41:15 and read 40095 times.

So explain to me how it will fly before the 787 when the 787 is already on the runway doing slow taxi tests.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Keesje
Posted 2009-07-21 07:41:40 and read 40150 times.

Like sliced salmon, can't wait to see it complete..

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: TK787
Posted 2009-07-21 07:44:35 and read 40020 times.

Wow! Could someone please remind us again how many more pax can it handle compared to 744, and is there more than one version? Thanks.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Scouseflyer
Posted 2009-07-21 07:46:56 and read 39989 times.



Quoting Cha747 (Reply 3):
So explain to me how it will fly before the 787 when the 787 is already on the runway doing slow taxi tests.

Because the 787 is currently grounded and not allowed to fly due to an issue that may require major fix so it could easily be delayed to the end of the year whilst the 748 appears to be on track currently.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Stitch
Posted 2009-07-21 07:58:53 and read 39914 times.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 5):
Wow! Could someone please remind us again how many more pax can it handle compared to 744, and is there more than one version?

Using a "Boeing Configuration", the 747-8 can seat 51 more people (467 vs. 416). LH is looking to seat 420 in their frames compared to 330 in their 747-400s.

There will be two versions: the passenger and freighter model.

Big version: Width: 580 Height: 386 File size: 59kb
Boeing 747-8 Intercontinental


[Edited 2009-07-21 08:06:43]

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Meta
Posted 2009-07-21 08:08:16 and read 39728 times.

When is LH expected to get their first 747-8's?

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Tropical
Posted 2009-07-21 08:09:20 and read 39728 times.

When I saw the thread title I thought Boeing was launching a new version with a full length upper deck  Wow!  Big grin

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: EcuadorianMD11
Posted 2009-07-21 08:29:44 and read 39530 times.

So all freighters get the short "bulb"........the shorter upper deck?
Why?
I mean, I appreciate that weight is often more important than space, but still..........is this favorable for freighters?

Shame, the extended bulb looks so good!

Ecuadorian MD11

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Stitch
Posted 2009-07-21 08:35:12 and read 39543 times.

Ah yes, the 747-900:


Fake by Raydon Designs. Image courtesy of aviation-design.net

Have to admit, that is a sharp-looking plane.  yes 

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: SunriseValley
Posted 2009-07-21 08:50:54 and read 39297 times.



Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
LH is looking to seat 420 in their frames compared to 330 in their 747-400s.

What is the proposed configuration for their 747-8i?

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Stitch
Posted 2009-07-21 08:58:59 and read 39187 times.



Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 12):
What is the proposed configuration for their 747-8i?

It was 10F / 100C / 410Y. I expect C might be reduced and Y increased. Since F is said to be moving from the upper deck to the nose, I imagine LH will keep it at 10.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Keesje
Posted 2009-07-21 09:05:10 and read 39134 times.



Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 12):
What is the proposed configuration for their 747-8i?


It was 10F / 100C / 410Y. I expect C might be reduced and Y increased. Since F is said to be moving from the upper deck to the nose, I imagine LH will keep it at 10.

LH has a seat count of about 330 seats for the 744, so add 30-40 for the 8i.
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Luf...nsa/Lufthansa_Boeing_747-400_D.php

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: TISTPAA727
Posted 2009-07-21 09:27:59 and read 38923 times.



Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
Have to admit, that is a sharp-looking plane. yes

I was thinking the same thing. Shame we will likely never see it come to life. Oh well, that's what dreams are for.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Cessna172RG
Posted 2009-07-21 09:54:14 and read 38682 times.

You think a 747-800D will be in the works for Japan's domestic market?

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Stitch
Posted 2009-07-21 10:02:17 and read 38605 times.



Quoting Keesje (Reply 14):
LH has a seat count of about 330 seats for the 744, so add 30-40 for the 8i.

My numbers come from LH presentations and they all point to around 420.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: PHKLM
Posted 2009-07-21 10:03:38 and read 38601 times.

I wonder, why no 77W freighter? Is it because of the nose-loading capabilities of the 747 that it is still ordered? What would be the savings of ordering new 748's ISO converting existing 744's in todays economic environment with high capital costs, lower fuel costs and less cargo demand?

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: EPA001
Posted 2009-07-21 10:07:49 and read 38540 times.

She sure is nice looking. Let's hope the development goes very smooth and then get the planes to the customers. How much time is anticipated between first delivery of the first B747-8F and the B747-8I to LH?

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Stitch
Posted 2009-07-21 10:09:36 and read 38531 times.



Quoting PHKLM (Reply 18):
I wonder, why no 77W freighter?

A 777 freighter based on the 777-300ER would likely have a lower payload weight than the current model based on the 777-200LR due to the higher OEW of the 77W.

Also, a 77W-based freighter would have probably closely-matched the 747-400 freighter in volume and payload, so by basing it on the 777-200LR, there is better market differentiation.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: PHKLM
Posted 2009-07-21 10:12:30 and read 38480 times.



Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
My numbers come from LH presentations and they all point to around 420.

I think this points to a less premium config then, which makes sense of course in light of the current economy.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2009-07-21 10:15:49 and read 38447 times.



Quoting Keesje (Reply 14):
LH has a seat count of about 330 seats for the 744

LH seating charts in their website show three different 744 configurations:
16/80/234 (total 330)
16/66/270 (total 352)
16/52/310 (total 378)

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: SKAirbus
Posted 2009-07-21 10:28:31 and read 38301 times.

I have my doubts about the 748... Although it is a nice looking bird I think that Boeing are trying to cling on desperately to a flagship that has maybe come to the end of its sales life.

The freighter version doesn't have many orders and the passenger version has only one customer...

I guess we'll see!!

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Lexy
Posted 2009-07-21 10:37:59 and read 38062 times.

Damn that's a looker! I love the 747 and it makes me happy to see work ongoing with the new model!!

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2009-07-21 11:03:46 and read 37352 times.



Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 23):
The freighter version doesn't have many orders

You could have said the same thing for ALL Boeing factory-built freighter versions of other widebody types. The 748F's 78 orders in the 4 years since the first order was placed is better than the original factory-built 742F which only sold 73 over more than 20 years. More 748Fs have also been ordered than 777Fs which have also been on the market about the same time.

Comparisons of Boeing-built pure freighter model orders. These numbers of course exclude freighter conversions of passenger aircraft.

748F -78 over 4 years
777F -71 over 4 years
763F - 82 over 16 years
742F - 73 over 20 years (and only 3 orders in the first 4 years the 742F was on the market)
744F/ERF - 126 over 20 years

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Racko
Posted 2009-07-21 11:16:03 and read 39069 times.

I remember my parents showing me pictures of the 747 FAL from a trip they took to the NW USA in the early 70s when I was little...and somehow I'm just as amazed today as I was back then seeing those magnificent aircraft built.

Even though I detest being seated in the Nose of a 747, from the outside, they still have their glory.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Astuteman
Posted 2009-07-21 11:53:57 and read 38206 times.



Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
Have to admit, that is a sharp-looking plane

They should SO have done this........  cloudnine 

Rgds

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: LHPII
Posted 2009-07-21 12:22:25 and read 37381 times.



Quoting Meta (Reply 8):
When is LH expected to get their first 747-8's?

Q4 of 2011 due to delay by Boeing

Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
It was 10F / 100C / 410Y. I expect C might be reduced and Y increased. Since F is said to be moving from the upper deck to the nose, I imagine LH will keep it at 10



Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
My numbers come from LH presentations and they all point to around 420.

10+100+410 makes 520 not 420  Big grin

LH will have only 8 F seats in nose section, the same number as on A380s
Final configuration is not yet known, since new LH Business class is due to be launched with B748i which will definitely reduce the total number of seats then previously planned.
LH is also contemplating the idea of premium economy, so if that comes into a pipeline seat count would change again.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Stitch
Posted 2009-07-21 12:26:45 and read 37296 times.

Quoting LHPII (Reply 28):
10+100+410 makes 520 not 420 Big grin

Sorry. Was looking at their A380 seating numbers when I quoted the breakdown, but 420 is what their presentations have shown, without giving a breakdown on number of seats per class.

Quoting LHPII (Reply 28):
LH will have only 8 F seats in nose section, the same number as on A380s

So are they going with the pod suite design, then? Though with only eight, you might be able to fit the enclosed suites design I saw them studying along the outer walls.

[Edited 2009-07-21 12:28:03]

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Max Q
Posted 2009-07-21 14:32:45 and read 34794 times.

The new Queen of the skies, forget boring twins.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: KELPkid
Posted 2009-07-21 14:53:37 and read 34382 times.



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 10):
So all freighters get the short "bulb"........the shorter upper deck?
Why?

For two reasons: 1) The upper deck intrudes upon cargo space (you cannot load full-height pallets or containers beneath the upper deck area), and by implication, the extended uppper deck does this even more and 2) that's a lot of extra weight to be dragging around if your not going to fill it. Two very bad traits for a freighter. 744 BCF's get around limitation #1 by removing about half of the floor section of the upper deck (aft of the emergency exits up there, IIRC...).

Although, Boeing discovered, quite by accident with the 747SP, that extending the upper deck to just short of the fuselage/wing junction provides huge aerodynamic advantages  Smile

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Jet-lagged
Posted 2009-07-21 14:55:05 and read 34324 times.



Quoting Cessna172RG (Reply 16):
You think a 747-800D will be in the works for Japan's domestic market?

No. There is the Shinkansen which takes not a lot more time on the only market (Tokyo-Osaka) it might make sense any more. But the Shinkansen is more convenient in many ways (easier transfer, no security) and plans are afoot for a mag-lev train with an initial leg between Tokyo and Nagoya, which is about half-way to Osaka.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: VC10DC10
Posted 2009-07-21 15:04:04 and read 34099 times.



Quoting Stitch (Reply 20):
A 777 freighter based on the 777-300ER would likely have a lower payload weight than the current model based on the 777-200LR due to the higher OEW of the 77W.

Also, a 77W-based freighter would have probably closely-matched the 747-400 freighter in volume and payload, so by basing it on the 777-200LR, there is better market differentiation.

Also, the ability to load through the nose (already mentioned by PHKLM), and, I believe, the fact that a twin-engined freighter would have weight limitations at some hot airports (such as HKG, I believe) because of the need for sufficient go-around power on one engine in the event of an engine-out incident during or shortly after takeoff.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 25):
742F - 73 over 20 years (and only 3 orders in the first 4 years the 742F was on the market)

Out of curiosity, which three were those?

Quoting Racko (Reply 26):
I detest being seated in the Nose of a 747

Why is that?

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Racko
Posted 2009-07-21 15:07:38 and read 34057 times.



Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 33):
Quoting Racko (Reply 26):
I detest being seated in the Nose of a 747

Why is that?

Imho it feels quite claustrophobic the nearer you get to the front.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: TodaReisinger
Posted 2009-07-21 15:22:03 and read 33792 times.



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 31):
Although, Boeing discovered, quite by accident with the 747SP, that extending the upper deck to just short of the fuselage/wing junction provides huge aerodynamic advantages

The upperdeck of the 747-8 will be longer than the one of the 747-100/200? I thought it would be the same....... anyway it looks so elegant.....I'm very glad we'll be able to admire this magnificent airplane for many years to come...  Smile !!

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Cosmofly
Posted 2009-07-21 15:31:36 and read 33574 times.



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 31):
that extending the upper deck to just short of the fuselage/wing junction provides huge aerodynamic advantages

Why the -F is not taking this advantage?

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: KELPkid
Posted 2009-07-21 15:33:09 and read 33550 times.



Quoting Cosmofly (Reply 36):
Why the -F is not taking this advantage?

For the two reasons I mentioned above, the headroom that it eliminates, and the fact that it does add a lot of uneccesarry weight to a freighter.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Caljn
Posted 2009-07-21 15:49:04 and read 33218 times.

Is there a more beautiful sight in aviation than a rotating 747 ?  cloudnine 

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Eightball
Posted 2009-07-21 16:08:16 and read 32848 times.



Quoting Caljn (Reply 38):
Is there a more beautiful sight in aviation than a rotating 747 ?

Yes, a rotating 777. Big grin

Of course, that's just my opinion.  Wink

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Pellegrine
Posted 2009-07-21 16:20:57 and read 32645 times.

The short upper deck looks a bit reprofiled in comparison of the 744F/747 classic, but I'm guessing this is just the photo.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: LHPII
Posted 2009-07-21 16:23:33 and read 32621 times.



Quoting Stitch (Reply 29):
So are they going with the pod suite design, then? Though with only eight, you might be able to fit the enclosed suites design I saw them studying along the outer walls.

........something close to what swiss did on their A330-300s but even better!  Wink

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Aaron747
Posted 2009-07-21 16:25:52 and read 32563 times.



Quoting Cessna172RG (Reply 16):
You think a 747-800D will be in the works for Japan's domestic market?

Not much need for such a thing these days - Fukuoka, Sapporo, and seasonally Okinawa are the only markets that can support such high densities from Tokyo.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2009-07-21 17:03:44 and read 31933 times.



Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 33):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 25):
742F - 73 over 20 years (and only 3 orders in the first 4 years the 742F was on the market)

Out of curiosity, which three were those?

LH ordered the first 742F freighter (one only) in March 1969. The next order wasn't until 4 years later, February 1973, when U.S. cargo carrier Seaboard World Airlines ordered 2 (they merged with Flying Tiger Line in 1980, which merged witih FedEx in 1989).

Other 742F orders were very low for the next few years. They started to pick up somewhat from 1978 onwards. That no doubt reflected the poor global economic conditions in the early to mid-1970s and the several huge increases in oil prices during that period. Other 742F orders from 1973 through 1978:

1973 - 1 AF
1974 - 1 JL, 3 NW
1975 - 1 AF
1976 - 1 NW
1977 - 4 Iranian Air Force, LH 1, Cargolux 1
1978 - 1 JL,1 AF, 2 Seaboard, 2 UTA, 2 Pan Am, 4 Flying Tiger

The 747-200M Combi model was more popular than the pure freighter in those years. Boeing also sold a few (13 total) 747-200C Convertible models, which could be converted from all-cargo to all-passenger configurations and had the swing-up nose door like the freighter, in addition to the rear main deck cargo door like the -200M Combi.

I expect the limited sales of the 742F freighter also reflected the many 707s and DC-8s that were available for conversion to freighters in the early 1970s when they were replaced in passenger service by the 747 and, a couple of years later, the DC-10 and L-1011. By far the most popular model of the 707 was the -320C with main deck cargo door, with 337 built. Most -320Cs were used in passenger service initially but could easily be converted to freighters later. About 125 DC-8s were also factory-built built as combis or freighters.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Racko
Posted 2009-07-21 19:09:18 and read 30155 times.



Quoting LHPII (Reply 41):
........something close to what swiss did on their A330-300s but even better! Wink

Well if that's true that's very good news. The new seats in the LX A333 are amazing, both J and F.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Mal787
Posted 2009-07-21 19:14:56 and read 30071 times.



Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
Have to admit, that is a sharp-looking plane

That is one sexy beast looks so much better than the 380.

mal787

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: VC10DC10
Posted 2009-07-21 21:04:21 and read 28603 times.



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 43):

Thanks for that wealth of information, Viscount724.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Mascmo
Posted 2009-07-21 22:10:05 and read 27837 times.

So the first one is going to be a freighter type when is the pax one coming out?

[Edited 2009-07-21 22:10:56]

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: DL752
Posted 2009-07-21 22:11:05 and read 27884 times.

I recently visited The Boeing Factory and let me tell you it was amazing!
I saw the 747-8 when it was being put together and now it looks close to completion!
Proud of Boeing for being so dedicated to these programs.
If It Ain't Boeing, I'm Not Going!
DL752 Big grin

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: BlueSky1976
Posted 2009-07-22 00:39:31 and read 26439 times.



Quoting Caljn (Reply 38):
Is there a more beautiful sight in aviation than a rotating 747 ?

Yes there is: a rotating 777-300ER. Not to mention a rotating Concorde.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Tom355uk
Posted 2009-07-22 00:56:16 and read 26262 times.



Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 49):

Quoting Caljn (Reply 38):
Is there a more beautiful sight in aviation than a rotating 747 ?

Yes there is: a rotating 777-300ER. Not to mention a rotating Concorde.

IMHO a rotating A346 does the job real nice...definitely better looking than the 744/748 and even the A388 Big grin

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Vincewy
Posted 2009-07-22 00:59:47 and read 26033 times.



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 42):
Not much need for such a thing these days - Fukuoka, Sapporo, and seasonally Okinawa are the only markets that can support such high densities from Tokyo.

Gone are the days where Japan needs large number of VLAs for domestic networks, JL and NH are replacing 744Ds with 777s. Besides aging population and economy, another main factor is popularity of high speed rails.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: BeakerLTN
Posted 2009-07-22 01:10:53 and read 25839 times.

So the first-off 748 is a freighter.. has this (the first build being freight, not passenger) ever happened before? - I can't think of any.

I've got a feeling this must have been discussed before...

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Columba
Posted 2009-07-22 02:37:19 and read 24882 times.



Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 49):
Yes there is: a rotating 777-300ER. Not to mention a rotating Concorde.

Never will a rotating 777-300ER ever look as graceful and elegant as a 747

Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
There will be two versions: the passenger and freighter model.

Can not wait for the real 747-8I take off, it will be the best looking airliner around, too bad that it is not a huge sales success.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Pblanker
Posted 2009-07-22 02:39:41 and read 24842 times.

I haven't read all of the previous entries so someone may have already commented that this plane is just so much better looking than an A380.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: BubbaJin
Posted 2009-07-22 03:18:47 and read 24415 times.



Quoting LY777 (Reply 2):
wow, looks so good and so loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong

Thats what she said . . .  laughing  Seriously, it's amazing that it may fly before the 787. I cannot wait to see some internal pictures of this aircraft. Any word on the avionics and layout?

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Kiwiandrew
Posted 2009-07-22 03:25:46 and read 24362 times.

Am I correct in thinking that the 747-8 will regain for the 747 the title of worlds longest aircraft ? I think I read somewhere that it will be around a metre longer than the A340-600 , which , in turn , is of course longer than the 777-300/300ER.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Scouseflyer
Posted 2009-07-22 03:31:32 and read 24271 times.



Quoting BeakerLTN (Reply 52):
So the first-off 748 is a freighter.. has this (the first build being freight, not passenger) ever happened before? - I can't think of any.

The only one that I can think of is that of the KC135 and 707 which the tanker plane came first but the 707 ended up being very differant in having a wider fuselage so could probably be considered not versions of the same plane.

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 56):
Am I correct in thinking that the 747-8 will regain for the 747 the title of worlds longest aircraft ? I think I read somewhere that it will be around a metre longer than the A340-600 , which , in turn , is of course longer than the 777-300/300ER.

That is my understanding too - both the 748 and A346 are longer than the "oversquare" A388 but the A389 is rumoured to be 79.9999m long so will (if ever built) take the title back again.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Osteogenesis
Posted 2009-07-22 03:54:46 and read 23961 times.



Quoting Caljn (Reply 38):
Is there a more beautiful sight in aviation than a rotating 747 ?

Maybe only a landing 747.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: CCA
Posted 2009-07-22 04:01:41 and read 23908 times.

Well if it's longer than the 777-300 the A346 and the current A380 which all have cameras, will it have them?

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2009-07-22 04:22:12 and read 23675 times.



Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 6):
Quoting Cha747 (Reply 3):
So explain to me how it will fly before the 787 when the 787 is already on the runway doing slow taxi tests.

Because the 787 is currently grounded and not allowed to fly due to an issue that may require major fix so it could easily be delayed to the end of the year whilst the 748 appears to be on track currently.

Well, Boeing says the B-787 can safely fly now, but wants to fly it in the new configueration. They have also said the "fix" to the wing/body join will not be difficult to do. So, the B-787 may very well fly well before the end of this year.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 23):
The freighter version doesn't have many orders and the passenger version has only one customer...

There are a total of 105 B-747-8s on order, 78 B-747-8Fs, 20, B-747-8Is, and 7 B-747-8I-BBJ-VIPs. LH also has another 20 B-747-8Is on options. So, total orders, including options is 125 airplanes.

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 57):
Quoting BeakerLTN (Reply 52):
So the first-off 748 is a freighter.. has this (the first build being freight, not passenger) ever happened before? - I can't think of any.

The only one that I can think of is that of the KC135 and 707 which the tanker plane came first but the 707 ended up being very differant in having a wider fuselage so could probably be considered not versions of the same plane.

Since both the KC-135 and B-707 came out of the B-367-80 prototype, you could consider it the same program. The KC-135 was widened about 4" over the B-367-80, and the B-707 was widened another 4" over the KC-135.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Keesje
Posted 2009-07-22 04:29:33 and read 23612 times.



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 60):
They have also said the "fix" to the wing/body join will not be difficult to do. So, the B-787 may very well fly well before the end of this year.

I think I've found the a.netter that actually believes what Boeing says in relation to 787 progress  Wink

Quoting BubbaJin (Reply 55):
I cannot wait to see some internal pictures of this aircraft.

I think that might be a bit dissapointing, unless you like subway tubes and the like..

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: FEDEX35
Posted 2009-07-22 05:18:23 and read 22979 times.

What a great looking aircraft,car'nt wait im going on the boeing tour on the 8th sept not long now 6 weeks and counting.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2009-07-22 05:46:47 and read 22673 times.



Quoting Keesje (Reply 61):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 60):
They have also said the "fix" to the wing/body join will not be difficult to do. So, the B-787 may very well fly well before the end of this year.

I think I've found the a.netter that actually believes what Boeing says in relation to 787 progress

Well, if all that is needed is a stronger attachment of the 17 upper stingers to the wing skin and body stringers, that should not be a difficult design. Accessing those areas on already built airplanes may be difficult, but not impossible.

But nice touch on your comment, Keesje. I think I'll wear it as a badge of honor.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Afterburner
Posted 2009-07-22 06:14:28 and read 22287 times.



Quoting Max Q (Reply 30):
The new Queen of the skies, forget boring twins.

Yeah. Forget the boring twins. Give me four-holer with full-length upper deck. Big grin

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Fridgmus
Posted 2009-07-22 06:49:34 and read 21862 times.



Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
Ah yes, the 747-900:


Fake by Raydon Designs. Image courtesy of aviation-design.net

Have to admit, that is a sharp-looking plane. yes

Excuse my ignorance, but would it take a major re-engineering effort to build this "747-900" with the full-length upper deck?

If not, I wish Boeing would have built it!!!

Thanks,

F

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Columba
Posted 2009-07-22 07:05:37 and read 21621 times.

When will be the roll-out ? Will be my aviation high light of the year to see the first pictures !

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: DLDTW1962
Posted 2009-07-22 07:07:20 and read 21595 times.

It sure does look nice. Can't wait to see it fly into and out of DTW. Do we know which airlines have purchased this beauty besides LH??

Chuck

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Keesje
Posted 2009-07-22 07:21:23 and read 21456 times.



Quoting DLDTW1962 (Reply 67):
Do we know which airlines have purchased this beauty besides LH??

Chuck

Don't ask, pls.

Quoting DLDTW1962 (Reply 67):
It sure does look nice.

Yes, I think specially the 8F will look nice because it's leaner.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Airbazar
Posted 2009-07-22 07:36:13 and read 21360 times.



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 25):
You could have said the same thing for ALL Boeing factory-built freighter versions of other widebody types. The 748F's 78 orders in the 4 years since the first order was placed is better than the original factory-built 742F which only sold 73 over more than 20 years. More 748Fs have also been ordered than 777Fs which have also been on the market about the same time.

But the big difference here is that all other widebody freighters also had successful passenger versions to keep the program viable. The 748 doesn't have a successful pax version. At least not yet.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: EPA001
Posted 2009-07-22 08:11:01 and read 21403 times.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 30):
The new Queen of the skies, forget boring twins.
Indeed, behind the King A380 she is the better looking Queen of the Skies. Usually women are better looking imho.

Quoting Mal787 (Reply 45):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
Have to admit, that is a sharp-looking plane

That is one sexy beast looks so much better than the 380.

Better looking from most angles, but the front view of the A380 wings is unsurpassed in aviation imho. Of course we are looking at the longest B747-variant compared to the shortest A380-variant. The longer the plane, usually the elegant and graceful it looks. That usually goes for boats as well. So just wait until the A380-1000 will be launched.    She will be by far the best looking A380.  

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 56):
Am I correct in thinking that the 747-8 will regain for the 747 the title of worlds longest aircraft ? I think I read somewhere that it will be around a meter longer than the A340-600 , which , in turn , is of course longer than the 777-300/300ER.
Until an Airbus A380 stretch is announced, if it is ever going to be announced, the B747-8 will indeed be the longest airliner around. Only the Antonov An225-Mryia is longer, but there is only one flying and she is a cargo plane.

[Edited 2009-07-22 08:14:18]

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: BandA
Posted 2009-07-22 14:17:01 and read 20836 times.



Quoting Tropical (Reply 9):
When I saw the thread title I thought Boeing was launching a new version with a full length upper deck Wow! Big grin

Same here!

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Afterburner
Posted 2009-07-22 16:12:15 and read 20699 times.



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 10):
So all freighters get the short "bulb"........the shorter upper deck?
Why?
I mean, I appreciate that weight is often more important than space, but still..........is this favorable for freighters?

Shame, the extended bulb looks so good!

If look is more important for cargo airlines, why didn't cargo airlines use Concorde? Big grin

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: EcuadorianMD11
Posted 2009-07-22 18:23:17 and read 20514 times.



Quoting Afterburner (Reply 72):
If look is more important for cargo airlines, why didn't cargo airlines use Concorde?

Because Concorde is ugly?
A jet fighter wanna be!!

Quoting Osteogenesis (Reply 58):
38):
Is there a more beautiful sight in aviation than a rotating 747 ?

Maybe only a landing 747.

Well said, so true!

I´m glad this legend lives on.............hope that more airlines will put their hands in their pockets and order a few of those 747-pax! KLM? I live in hope........

Ecuadorian MD11

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Afterburner
Posted 2009-07-22 19:28:20 and read 20386 times.



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 73):
Because Concorde is ugly?

Aha! You would rather date Kristie Alley than Megan Fox. Big grin

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 73):
hope that more airlines will put their hands in their pockets and order a few of those 747-pax!

I'm afraid with current economic situation it's quite unlikely that airlines will order aircraft larger than 787 or A350. In fact, even some airlines are thinking of canceling or deferring their A380 orders.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: BeakerLTN
Posted 2009-07-23 00:08:11 and read 20021 times.



Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 57):
The only one that I can think of is that of the KC135 and 707 which the tanker plane came first but the 707 ended up being very differant in having a wider fuselage so could probably be considered not versions of the same plane.

Is that really right? - the KC-135 came before the 707?! All those childhood years watching them thunder down the runway* at Mildenhall and I never realised that.

*until those spoil-sports put those new CFM-56's on them.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: EcuadorianMD11
Posted 2009-07-23 00:22:31 and read 20110 times.



Quoting Afterburner (Reply 74):
Aha! You would rather date Kristie Alley than Megan Fox.

??????????

Anyway, moving back to sanity again..........please:

Quoting Afterburner (Reply 74):
I'm afraid with current economic situation it's quite unlikely that airlines will order aircraft larger than 787 or A350. In fact, even some airlines are thinking of canceling or deferring their A380 orders.

Yep, I know.........unfortunately that´s what I´m witnessing too! I just hope.......I love the 747!
But I mean, in a few years Air Travels should increase again if the economy climbs out of this "little" dip, right?
World population is growing, airports are growing, still fewer take-off / landing slots in many places, environmental issues.............
Don´t you see a large potential market for the huge planes in the years to come?
I´m not an expert, but I see potential........... I can see mass transportation becoming more essential than it already is.

Ecuadorian MD11.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Spacecadet
Posted 2009-07-23 09:16:03 and read 19697 times.



Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 49):
Yes there is: a rotating 777-300ER. Not to mention a rotating Concorde.

No chance on the former, debatable on the latter. I don't think I'm alone in thinking the Concorde never really looked its best close to the ground, what with the droop nose.

And no twin engine plane, much less any that's a straight tube, will ever look as good as the distinctive and brutish 747. I actually have never agreed with those that say the 747 is "elegant" or call it a "queen" - to me it is the most masculine of all airliners. Watching one take off is like watching Muhammad Ali knock out an opponent.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Pnwtraveler
Posted 2009-07-23 09:22:05 and read 19667 times.



Quoting Racko (Reply 34):
Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 33):
Quoting Racko (Reply 26):
I detest being seated in the Nose of a 747

Why is that?

Imho it feels quite claustrophobic the nearer you get to the front.

I always chose just behind door 1 on AC's 747's where the executive first continued in that second small compartment. The ceiling heights there were "extra" and you didn't have the curve of the front section. I always thought the lone seat in the middle of the nose would have been weird to sit in.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: United787
Posted 2009-07-23 10:34:02 and read 19483 times.

Exciting to see the progress of the 748 but does anyone find it a little odd that Boeing decided to do PR before body join, I would think the body join and vertical and horizontal stabilizer join will be happening relatively soon and that would be a more exciting release...

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Ikramerica
Posted 2009-07-23 10:48:22 and read 19458 times.



Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
My numbers come from LH presentations and they all point to around 420.

LH is hardly a reliable source for information about the 748 in some people's minds. I mean, not only will they never put 420 seats in it (just not possible because the 748 is old tech and too small), but they aren't ever going to take delivery of it in the first place (as the cancelation has been confirmed so many times by non-LH people, it must be true)...  Wink

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 22):
LH seating charts in their website show three different 744 configurations:
16/80/234 (total 330)
16/66/270 (total 352)
16/52/310 (total 378)

Keesje ALWAYS ignores this sort of information (same goes for BA and which configuration he uses for his comparisons, for example). He has a personal thing against the 747, constantly misquoting and distorting seating counts for airlines, as well as underestimating how many seats a 748 can hold. Pointing this out is fruitless. He's been doing it ever since the 748 was launched...

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: EcuadorianMD11
Posted 2009-07-23 11:09:18 and read 19338 times.



Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 77):
I actually have never agreed with those that say the 747 is "elegant" or call it a "queen" - to me it is the most masculine of all airliners. Watching one take off is like watching Muhammad Ali knock out an opponent.

Well put!

Unfortunately, like mister Ali, the 747 sales seem equally shakey!
All good things must come to an end perhaps?
I applaud any 747-8 order, so we can see more of ´m for decades to come!

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 77):
And no twin engine plane, much less any that's a straight tube, will ever look as good as the distinctive and brutish 747.

I rest my case.........

Ecuadorian MD11.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: ER757
Posted 2009-07-23 11:42:12 and read 19205 times.



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 80):
Keesje ALWAYS ignores this sort of information (same goes for BA and which configuration he uses for his comparisons, for example). He has a personal thing against the 747,

I don't think it's the 747 per se' - he's stated many times that he loves the 747. I think it's the 747-8i in particular that he has a hard time with.

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 77):
And no twin engine plane, much less any that's a straight tube, will ever look as good as the distinctive and brutish 747. I actually have never agreed with those that say the 747 is "elegant" or call it a "queen" - to me it is the most masculine of all airliners. Watching one take off is like watching Muhammad Ali knock out an opponent.

I've never heard it put that way before, but come to think of it, that's a great way to describe the 747 taking flight!  box 

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2009-07-23 17:25:47 and read 18836 times.



Quoting BeakerLTN (Reply 75):
Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 57):
The only one that I can think of is that of the KC135 and 707 which the tanker plane came first but the 707 ended up being very differant in having a wider fuselage so could probably be considered not versions of the same plane.

Is that really right? - the KC-135 came before the 707?! All those childhood years watching them thunder down the runway* at Mildenhall and I never realised that.

Yes, the KC-135 first flew and went into service more than a year before the 707.

KC-135:
First flight - August 31, 1956
In service - June 1957

707-120:
First flight - December 20, 1957
In service - October 26, 1958

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Tdscanuck
Posted 2009-07-23 23:09:39 and read 18546 times.



Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 23):
the passenger version has only one customer...

At least 4, actually. LH plus assorted VIP's.

Quoting BeakerLTN (Reply 75):
Is that really right? - the KC-135 came before the 707?!

Yes. First came the Dash 80, which begat the KC-135. Then they wanted something wider than the DC-8 for the passenger market, which begat the 707.

Tom.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: N14AZ
Posted 2009-07-23 23:41:17 and read 18465 times.



Quoting DLDTW1962 (Reply 67):
Do we know which airlines have purchased this beauty besides LH??



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 84):
At least 4, actually. LH plus assorted VIP's.

Flightblogger mentioned yesterday on his webpage some rumours about a potential "second" customer (meaning a second non-VIP client): http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/
Does anybody know more about it? Well, there have been rumours about "ongoing sales campaign" let's the last years. Is this anything serious or just another rumour.

Best regards
N14AZ

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: CCA
Posted 2009-07-24 01:45:42 and read 18268 times.

After doing a lot of research I managed to find some of the commonalities & differences between the -400 and the -8.

-Taxi-map (option)
-Global navigation satellite landing system (GLS)
-Navigation performance scales (NPS)
-Vertical situation display (VSD)
-Integrated approach navigation (IAN)
-Tire pressure monitoring system (basic on -8; option on -400)
-Brake temperature monitoring system (basic since -400)

Improvements and new features for the 747-8
-Increased outboard aileron deflection to -30°(-25°on -400)
-Use of spoilers 6 and 7 for lateral control
-FBW aileron and spoilers
-Double-hinged lower rudder (The SP lives)  bigthumbsup 
-60°ground spoilers (45°on -400)
-Drooped ailerons (Thanks to FBW)
-Revised rudder mechanism

It will not have a taxi camera system despite it being longer than the A346/A380/B773.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Columba
Posted 2009-07-24 02:18:47 and read 18183 times.



Quoting N14AZ (Reply 85):

Flightblogger mentioned yesterday on his webpage some rumours about a potential "second" customer (meaning a second non-VIP client): http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/
Does anybody know more about it? Well, there have been rumours about "ongoing sales campaign" let's the last years. Is this anything serious or just another rumour.

I have been looking forward for another customer for ages, I hope there is more to this rumor. It is about time !!!!

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Frigatebird
Posted 2009-07-24 04:15:21 and read 18058 times.



Quoting Columba (Reply 87):


Quoting N14AZ (Reply 85):

Flightblogger mentioned yesterday on his webpage some rumours about a potential "second" customer (meaning a second non-VIP client): http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/
Does anybody know more about it? Well, there have been rumours about "ongoing sales campaign" let's the last years. Is this anything serious or just another rumour.


I have been looking forward for another customer for ages, I hope there is more to this rumor. It is about time !!!!

I've heard some rumors that CX may order a replacement for their oldest 744's this year. But I also believe that the A380 will be the clear favorite to land that one.

Or some 787 customers may be so fed up that they'll take the 748i instead. Now that would be something!  Silly

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Columba
Posted 2009-07-24 05:13:31 and read 18027 times.

I am thinking Qatar:

They are not pleased with the 787 delay, have A350s on order, have been rumored to be interested in the 747-8I so changing their 787s into 747-8Is might not seem to be such a bad idea.
This seems to be a good negotiating strategy:

"If it slips into 2012 for delivery then we'll have to consider cancelling our order," he says. "We'll have to consider [cancelling] because if there is another big slippage the deliveries will be at the same we are receiving this large order of A350s and the A350 mission will be very close to the 787. If there's a huge overlap then why am I buying two types of airplanes that are doing the same mission?"
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...oeing-tomorrow-to-discuss-787.html

The 747-8I on the other hand would fit nicely between the A346/A350/77W and A380 at least it works with LH  

P.S. The 747-8I BBJ would also be nice for Qatar Amiri Flight

[Edited 2009-07-24 05:21:10]

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Flood
Posted 2009-07-24 05:42:28 and read 17832 times.



Quoting Columba (Reply 89):
I am thinking Qatar:

All else aside, I don't see Al Baker wanting to make Boeing's day by switching his order to -8's.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Columba
Posted 2009-07-24 06:53:58 and read 17687 times.



Quoting Flood (Reply 90):
All else aside, I don't see Al Baker wanting to make Boeing's day by switching his order to -8's.

If Boeing makes him an offer he can not refuse he might.....

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Stitch
Posted 2009-07-24 07:19:10 and read 17650 times.



Quoting N14AZ (Reply 85):
Flightblogger mentioned yesterday on his webpage some rumours about a potential "second" customer...

Arik Air placed an LoI for four 747-8s at Farnborough 2008, along with an order for seven additional 737NGs. However, that LoI has yet to be firmed, so I am guessing it has expired and Arik is no longer interested in the model.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: JAL
Posted 2009-07-24 07:26:37 and read 17616 times.



Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
Ah yes, the 747-900:


Fake by Raydon Designs. Image courtesy of aviation-design.net

Have to admit, that is a sharp-looking plane. yes

Nice model!

I just hope Boeing has better luck with the 747-8 than with the 787!

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Spacecadet
Posted 2009-07-24 07:46:12 and read 17580 times.



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 81):
Unfortunately, like mister Ali, the 747 sales seem equally shakey!
All good things must come to an end perhaps?

Well, yeah... obviously I was thinking more the Ali of around this era. But that's well in the past now, as is the 747's prime.

And to continue the boxing metaphor, it's being replaced as the "KING" of the skies by the A380, which is the Mike Tyson of airliners.

Still, I'm much more excited to see the 747-8 fly in person than the A380. Just as I'm sure a lot of people would rather go back in time and see Ali fight Frasier again rather than seeing Tyson biting off people's ears.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Caljn
Posted 2009-07-24 12:07:22 and read 17371 times.



Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 94):
And to continue the boxing metaphor, it's being replaced as the "KING" of the skies by the A380, which is the Mike Tyson of airliners

Mike Tyson is spot on.
I had the priveledge of witnessing a QF A380 arrive at LAX the other day while driving the south 405 fwy and if that isn't one freakish looking airliner!
Replete with the enormous vertical stabilizer and somewhat stubby body.
Resembled something out of a Stephen King novel over the freeway in the morning fog...  Wow!

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Pellegrine
Posted 2009-07-26 21:50:11 and read 16630 times.



Quoting United787 (Reply 79):
Exciting to see the progress of the 748 but does anyone find it a little odd that Boeing decided to do PR before body join, I would think the body join and vertical and horizontal stabilizer join will be happening relatively soon and that would be a more exciting release...

Anything to take press away from the Disastreliner 787.

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 84):
plus assorted VIP's.

I want one. Me too.

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 85):

Flightblogger mentioned yesterday on his webpage some rumours about a potential "second" customer (meaning a second non-VIP client): http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...gger/

Gaud I hope so.

Quoting Columba (Reply 89):
The 747-8I on the other hand would fit nicely between the A346/A350/77W and A380 at least it works with LH

Seems big for Qatar. They'll seemingly have trouble filling up the "keeping up with the Joneses" A388s.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Afterburner
Posted 2009-07-27 01:05:05 and read 16410 times.



Quoting Frigatebird (Reply 88):
Or some 787 customers may be so fed up that they'll take the 748i instead.



Quoting Columba (Reply 89):
I am thinking Qatar:

They are not pleased with the 787 delay, have A350s on order, have been rumored to be interested in the 747-8I so changing their 787s into 747-8Is might not seem to be such a bad idea.

Not a bad idea, if it is OK for them to be pissed-off twice. Big grin

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Buzz100ca
Posted 2009-07-27 09:36:26 and read 15954 times.

I had the pleasure of seeing the 747-8 Freighter on the Factory Tour last week. At the time the horizontal stabilizer was being installed as well as plenty of work going on in the interior. It was very cool to see the first a/c!

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Na
Posted 2009-07-27 10:27:55 and read 15777 times.



Quoting Columba (Reply 87):

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 85):

Flightblogger mentioned yesterday on his webpage some rumours about a potential "second" customer (meaning a second non-VIP client): http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/
Does anybody know more about it? Well, there have been rumours about "ongoing sales campaign" let's the last years. Is this anything serious or just another rumour.

I have been looking forward for another customer for ages, I hope there is more to this rumor. It is about time !!!!

High time. It would be the most sought-after order of the year. At least from aviation enthusiasts. I hope for an influential blue chip carrier paving the way for more orders!

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Ikramerica
Posted 2009-07-27 10:45:41 and read 15710 times.

Left field is that VS will junk their A380 and 787 orders both. They will instead trade their 15 787 orders for 10+5 748 orders/options, and their 6+6 A380s for 10+10 A350s.

That combination makes more sense for their fleet anyway...

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: EcuadorianMD11
Posted 2009-07-27 11:26:11 and read 15548 times.



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 100):
They will instead trade their 15 787 orders for 10+5 748

Hope you´re right!!
Let the legend live on!!!

Ecuadorian MD11.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Columba
Posted 2009-07-27 11:27:36 and read 15575 times.



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 100):
Left field is that VS will junk their A380 and 787 orders both. They will instead trade their 15 787 orders for 10+5 748 orders/options, and their 6+6 A380s for 10+10 A350s.

That combination makes more sense for their fleet anyway...

Would be blow for both the 787 and the A380 so nothing the Airbus and Boeing fan boys can be proud off.
For me as a 747 fan it would be great seeing that the old lady can still win against the new kids.....

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Ikramerica
Posted 2009-07-27 11:48:01 and read 15455 times.



Quoting Columba (Reply 102):
Would be blow for both the 787 and the A380 so nothing the Airbus and Boeing fan boys can be proud off.

I don't think it's too much of a blow to either. While the A380 needs all the orders it has, the VS order is not pending delivery, as they are finding ways to push it back. Ultimately converting the canceled A346s into A330s and A350s (with A380s as placeholders) seems logical for VS.

For the 787, losing the 15 orders, considering the delays and anger from VS over not getting them any time soon, would also not be a major blow to the program, especially because it's pretty clear now that VS was not going to order any more of them anyway. But adding a second customer to the 748 family would be huge for Boeing.

Again, this is NOT A RUMOR, just an idea of mine based on VS's actions regarding their fleet over the last 3 years...

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: TaromA380
Posted 2009-07-27 14:29:59 and read 15128 times.

Just one tehnical question : how did Boeing solve the engine clearance question ?
The new engines are larger than the 744's.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Zeke
Posted 2009-07-27 15:53:33 and read 14992 times.



Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
LH is looking to seat 420 in their frames compared to 330 in their 747-400s.

The 330 seat LH configuration will no longer exist soon, they started in March this year removing 2 rows of business seats (14 seats) and replacing that with 36 economy seats (3 rows of 10 and one row of 6).

LH have not released their 747-8i configuration in the timetable they said they would, this maybe due to delays by Boeing. Originally they stated "In the Lufthansa configuration, the B747-8 will be capable of carrying around 400 passengers."

http://konzern.lufthansa.com/en/html...en/app/show/en/2006/12/636/HOM&s=0

It is entirely possible they have decided to do similar with the 747-8i, and reconfigure the cabin with more economy than originally planned.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Stitch
Posted 2009-07-27 15:57:23 and read 14977 times.



Quoting TaromA380 (Reply 104):
Just one tehnical question : how did Boeing solve the engine clearance question?

The 747-400's inboard nacelles are between .93 and .71 meters off the ground.

While Boeing's ACAP has yet to provide clearance data, that appears to be enough room to allow the GEnx2B-67 to fit and still be safe from FOD.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Tdscanuck
Posted 2009-07-27 22:12:37 and read 14610 times.



Quoting TaromA380 (Reply 104):
Just one tehnical question : how did Boeing solve the engine clearance question ?
The new engines are larger than the 744's.

The 744 also has pylons that put the engines far lower relative to the wing than any other Boeing...they might have redesigned the pylon to be more 777-ish, which would give them more clearance than they'd need.

Tom.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Babybus
Posted 2009-07-27 22:27:06 and read 14578 times.

I bet the guys at LH are feeling pretty embarrassed about being the only operator of this 'new' aircraft. I'll tell you the truth, I'm having a giggle myself.

My main concern is for the manufacturer and if they can afford to subsidize LH while the aircraft finds its feet. I think they have enough on their plate right now.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Ikramerica
Posted 2009-07-27 22:41:58 and read 14543 times.



Quoting Stitch (Reply 106):
While Boeing's ACAP has yet to provide clearance data, that appears to be enough room to allow the GEnx2B-67 to fit and still be safe from FOD.

I'm pretty sure 737NG engines are closer than that.

Quoting Babybus (Reply 108):
I bet the guys at LH are feeling pretty embarrassed about being the only operator of this 'new' aircraft. I'll tell you the truth, I'm having a giggle myself.

Same old, same old...

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Racko
Posted 2009-07-28 03:30:11 and read 14277 times.



Quoting Babybus (Reply 108):
I bet the guys at LH are feeling pretty embarrassed about being the only operator of this 'new' aircraft. I'll tell you the truth, I'm having a giggle myself.

Why would they care? Maintenance is done by LH Technik anyway, the aircraft is probably dead cheap as Boeing was desperate for a blue chip customer, the aircraft is basically built to LH spec...doesn't look that bad to me. Only the resale value might suffer, but this issue is probably more than compensated by the cheap acquirement costs. LH keeps aircraft for a long time anyway.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Frigatebird
Posted 2009-07-28 03:55:58 and read 14221 times.



Quoting Racko (Reply 110):
Only the resale value might suffer, but this issue is probably more than compensated by the cheap acquirement costs. LH keeps aircraft for a long time anyway.

Plus, they'll have a good value as possible converted freighters as well. Something that can't be said for 77W's or A346's... I wonder if that was also one of the reasons why the MD11's disappeared so quickly from pax service, that cargo airlines were willing to pay a good price for it?
(Not that I believe this will be happen to LH's 748i's, LH will without doubt make a very healthy profit with the 748i in revenue service).

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Osteogenesis
Posted 2009-07-28 04:49:03 and read 14117 times.



Quoting Babybus (Reply 108):
I bet the guys at LH are feeling pretty embarrassed about being the only operator of this 'new' aircraft. I'll tell you the truth, I'm having a giggle myself.

Why should they? They will have the correct plane for each type of mission. When the economy picks up and LH can choose between A380, 747-400. 747-800, A340-300, A340-600, A330-300 for their long haul routes other airlines will probably be jealous of this.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: PC12Fan
Posted 2009-07-28 16:25:57 and read 13676 times.



Quoting Babybus (Reply 108):
I bet the guys at LH are feeling pretty embarrassed about being the only operator of this 'new' aircraft. I'll tell you the truth, I'm having a giggle myself.

I have no link to back it up, but I remember a Lufthansa official talking about the -400 and it's lack of fly-by-wire technology. His statement in a nut shell was that he was not that "keen" on the joy sticks and preferred the yoke of the -400 over the Airbus philosophy.

Lufthansa, although a big Airbus customer now, will not dismiss Boeing as easily as you think.

Thinking of you Gunter!

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: Stitch
Posted 2009-07-28 16:29:44 and read 13672 times.



Quoting Babybus (Reply 108):
I bet the guys at LH are feeling pretty embarrassed about being the only operator of this 'new' aircraft.

And yet they continue to doggedly stick by it, even though it will be the only non-Airbus plane in their mainline fleet (currently). Not to mention they've been pestering Boeing for a larger 747 model for only about a decade even as they also showed strong interest (and eventual commitment) to the A3XX/A380.

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: ArabAirX
Posted 2009-07-28 21:22:23 and read 13405 times.



Quoting Babybus (Reply 108):
I bet the guys at LH are feeling pretty embarrassed about being the only operator of this 'new' aircraft. I'll tell you the truth, I'm having a giggle myself.

Did LH feel the same when they were the sole customer for the 737?

LH knows more than yourself on this 747-8i deal and they're probably giggling at your assertions!

Topic: RE: Boeing Reveals Full Length 747-8
Username: EcuadorianMD11
Posted 2009-07-28 21:35:01 and read 13345 times.



Quoting Osteogenesis (Reply 112):
A380, 747-400. 747-800, A340-300, A340-600, A330-300 for their long haul routes other airlines will probably be jealous of this.

I´d be!!
Good buy!

Ecuadorian MD11.


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