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Topic: American Airlines: Why No 777 On JFK-MIA?
Username: JetBlue777
Posted 2009-08-03 19:23:33 and read 9847 times.

Hi, I just wondered since JFK-MIA is very lucrative on AA's network and flights are always full, I wonder why AA doesnt use the 777 on the flight? JFK is one of AA's focus cities and MIA is AA's hub, is it possible that the 777 might be used on the route?

Topic: RE: American Airlines: Why No 777 On JFK-MIA?
Username: Stitch
Posted 2009-08-03 19:27:15 and read 9838 times.

I am guessing they have enough feed between the two points that they don't need a 777 and therefore deploy the 777 on other routes.

The 777 turn times in JFK and MIA might also be tight enough to not allow the plane to perform a JFK-MIA-JFK / MIA-JFK-MIA rotation.

Topic: RE: American Airlines: Why No 777 On JFK-MIA?
Username: AAR90
Posted 2009-08-03 20:18:46 and read 9726 times.

In AA's route structure, B777s are "international" airplanes with the only domestic flights being used to position an airframe for either an international flight or as a "backup" (ready spare) for an international flight. Once the domestic routing is decided, AA will try to sell every seat on the repositioning flight, but the primary reason for the domestic movement is to protect one (or more) international flight(s).

Topic: RE: American Airlines: Why No 777 On JFK-MIA?
Username: 7324ever
Posted 2009-08-03 20:23:10 and read 9709 times.

They do/did have A300s on the route and I think they use 767s witch could help on LF but a 777 is a little much

Topic: RE: American Airlines: Why No 777 On JFK-MIA?
Username: Qantas787
Posted 2009-08-03 20:28:11 and read 9683 times.

Slightly off topic I know , but I hope they keep their 777 on MIA-LAX until at least Feb 10, as I have 5 FC seats which I don't want downgraded to a 757 or 738. Went in their FC on it this year and it really is an exceptional domestic service. Good onya AA.

Topic: RE: American Airlines: Why No 777 On JFK-MIA?
Username: FlyMIA
Posted 2009-08-03 20:35:37 and read 9659 times.



Quoting Qantas787 (Reply 4):
Slightly off topic I know , but I hope they keep their 777 on MIA-LAX until at least Feb 10, as I have 5 FC seats which I don't want downgraded to a 757 or 738. Went in their FC on it this year and it really is an exceptional domestic service. Good onya AA.

I dont see why they would sell it, the 777 is used because the route can demand a 777, it is sold as a three class service and it is always full. As for JFK MIA had at one point 777 service to BOS,ORD,DFW and LAX but never JFK. Why I am not sure. but they have/had a lot of A300's on the route and now they fly 762 on the route also.

Topic: RE: American Airlines: Why No 777 On JFK-MIA?
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2009-08-03 22:20:45 and read 9479 times.

AA has used 777s in the past on MIAJFK, it is all about spare aircraft availability and has nothing to do with LFs.

While AA typically uses 777s domestic only on utilisation, the MIALAX 777 service is on purpose. There is demand for 3 class service on the route, plus the cargo capacity is needed.

Topic: RE: American Airlines: Why No 777 On JFK-MIA?
Username: AAR90
Posted 2009-08-03 22:44:27 and read 9446 times.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
While AA typically uses 777s domestic only on utilisation, the MIALAX 777 service is on purpose. There is demand for 3 class service on the route, plus the cargo capacity is needed.

Yes and no. Originally AA moved a "spare" 772 from DFW-LAX to back-up the LAX-NRT flight. Years later that was switched to a MIA-LAX round-trip as that was where the spare 772 was located (MIA). The service proved so popular AA now flys MIA-LAX with a 772 on the first flight timed to arrive at approx. the same time as the NRT-LAX 772 (10:35 vs 10:20). If the NRT-LAX plane is okayed for the LAX-NRT trip, the MIA bird returns to MIA at 11:50. If the MIA bird is better suited for the trans-Pac flt, the planes are swapped. And if there is a question-mark, the MIA flight is delayed until it is clear the NRT flight will depart (less than an hour later). So the primary reason for the MIA-LAX flight remains operational (back-up plane for LAX-NRT), but don't expect the spare to come from anywhere else for the foreseeable future as the LAX-MIA pax have voted with their $$$ to keep a 772 on that route.

Topic: RE: American Airlines: Why No 777 On JFK-MIA?
Username: A388
Posted 2009-08-04 05:32:50 and read 9245 times.



Quoting AAR90 (Reply 7):
The service proved so popular AA now flys MIA-LAX with a 772 on the first flight timed to arrive at approx. the same time as the NRT-LAX 772 (10:35 vs 10:20). If the NRT-LAX plane is okayed for the LAX-NRT trip, the MIA bird returns to MIA at 11:50. If the MIA bird is better suited for the trans-Pac flt, the planes are swapped. And if there is a question-mark, the MIA flight is delayed until it is clear the NRT flight will depart (less than an hour later). So the primary reason for the MIA-LAX flight remains operational (back-up plane for LAX-NRT),

Why are these 777's swapped? Apparently one operates LAX-NRT-LAX while the other operates MIA-LAX-MIA, right? I always find aircraft operations fascinating and always wonder about the logic behind aircraft utilizations.

A388

Topic: RE: American Airlines: Why No 777 On JFK-MIA?
Username: 777STL
Posted 2009-08-04 05:53:56 and read 9193 times.



Quoting A388 (Reply 8):
Why are these 777's swapped?

I would presume if one has non-functioning components that aren't serious enough to ground the aircraft, or if one has non-functioning equipment that is necessary for ETOPs - then the other bird gets the go ahead. That is, a malfunction that isn't serious enough to ground the aircraft, but not something you would necessarily want on an 11-12 hour trans-pac. It gives AA more options in LAX.

Topic: RE: American Airlines: Why No 777 On JFK-MIA?
Username: Aaal
Posted 2009-08-04 07:03:11 and read 9073 times.

Once in a while they swap equipment on the JFK-MIA route to spot for a 777 trip.

They could fit it now in the current schedule. Take the aircraft that does 115 inbound which get in at 1100. Turn it
1230-1545 JFK-MIA
1650-2000 MIA-JFK

The plane could go on and turn flight 132 which is the normal sequence. Now that would be sweet.

Quoting 7324ever (Reply 3):
They do/did have A300s on the route and I think they use 767s witch could help on LF but a 777 is a little much

The A300's holds 266, while a 777 hold 247 in the domestic configuration. So it would be a drop in capacity.

Topic: RE: American Airlines: Why No 777 On JFK-MIA?
Username: A388
Posted 2009-08-04 07:17:31 and read 9032 times.



Quoting 777STL (Reply 9):
I would presume if one has non-functioning components that aren't serious enough to ground the aircraft, or if one has non-functioning equipment that is necessary for ETOPs - then the other bird gets the go ahead. That is, a malfunction that isn't serious enough to ground the aircraft, but not something you would necessarily want on an 11-12 hour trans-pac. It gives AA more options in LAX.

Okay I think I see it now. The LAX-MIA flight departs later in the day hence giving AA room to fix the aircraft should there be non-functional components while the Japan flight continues with the other aircraft which was swapped? My question was based on both flights also returning right away(?)

A388

Topic: RE: American Airlines: Why No 777 On JFK-MIA?
Username: N623JB
Posted 2009-08-04 08:59:57 and read 8869 times.

In my opinion, I dont think a 777 would be used, because it would take a lot of people to fill up the plane, comparing it to the 757(aircraft that is used JFK-MIA)...But also, too big to operate on this route. Its not like its a long haul route JFK-NRT. That I would see a 777 being used on.

Topic: RE: American Airlines: Why No 777 On JFK-MIA?
Username: AAAL
Posted 2009-08-04 10:51:06 and read 8612 times.



Quoting N623JB (Reply 12):
In my opinion, I don't think a 777 would be used, because it would take a lot of people to fill up the plane, comparing it to the 757(aircraft that is used JFK-MIA)...But also, too big to operate on this route. Its not like its a long haul route JFK-NRT. That I would see a 777 being used on.

They use all types of aircraft on the route. Normally it would be all A300s but they are getting retired. That would be about 1330 available seats per day. As if it was all 777 it would only be 1235. That's almost 100 seats less.

Topic: RE: American Airlines: Why No 777 On JFK-MIA?
Username: FlyMIA
Posted 2009-08-04 11:59:19 and read 8502 times.



Quoting N623JB (Reply 12):
In my opinion, I dont think a 777 would be used, because it would take a lot of people to fill up the plane, comparing it to the 757(aircraft that is used JFK-MIA)...But also, too big to operate on this route. Its not like its a long haul route JFK-NRT. That I would see a 777 being used on.

It is definitely not too big and airline could easily fill a 747 on a route like MIA-JFK but the public likes having more time options than bigger planes. Anyway MIA-JFK is being flown for AA by A300's which have more seats than the 777 but the A300 will retire in a few weeks. Its last AA flight is MIA-JFK. They will have at the end of august 3 757s one 762 and one 763 flying 5 daily MIA-JFK flights.

Topic: RE: American Airlines: Why No 777 On JFK-MIA?
Username: AJMIA
Posted 2009-08-04 13:02:29 and read 8406 times.

MIA-JFK is 5x daily.

After the A300s are gone it will be
1x 762
1x 763
3x 757

That is a lot fewer seats then the 4x A300 1x 762 that we had previously.

I think if the down time at MIA and JFK was sufficient it would be smart to send a 777 back and forth on a domestic trip to increase the number of seats in the market.

I was fully expecting to see a couple of new flights with 757 or 737 aircraft to make up for the A300 to 757 downgrade.

AJMIA

Topic: RE: American Airlines: Why No 777 On JFK-MIA?
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2009-08-04 13:26:25 and read 8356 times.



Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 14):
It is definitely not too big and airline could easily fill a 747 on a route like MIA-JFK but the public likes having more time options than bigger planes.

In pre-deregulation days when widebodies were common on many medium and even shorthaul U.S. domestic routes, National Airlines used their two 747-100s regularly on JFK-MIA in the early 1970s. In their April 1974 timetable, 2 of their 5 daily JFK-MIA flights were 747s.

Topic: RE: American Airlines: Why No 777 On JFK-MIA?
Username: YULWinterSkies
Posted 2009-08-04 15:16:12 and read 7758 times.



Quoting AJMIA (Reply 15):
After the A300s are gone it will be
1x 762
1x 763
3x 757

That is a lot fewer seats then the 4x A300 1x 762 that we had previously.



Quoting AJMIA (Reply 15):
I was fully expecting to see a couple of new flights with 757 or 737 aircraft to make up for the A300 to 757 downgrade.

I guess the capacity drop could mean higher yields, explaining why AA would not be willing to match the former capacity with an additional flight. Or maybe with the drop in demand this year, loads weren't very high and it will suffice.

Topic: RE: American Airlines: Why No 777 On JFK-MIA?
Username: AAR90
Posted 2009-08-04 17:27:59 and read 7183 times.



Quoting A388 (Reply 11):
The LAX-MIA flight departs later in the day hence giving AA room to fix the aircraft should there be non-functional components while the Japan flight continues with the other aircraft which was swapped? My question was based on both flights also returning right away(?)

If all is well, the planes are not normally planned to swap. The normal plan is the MIA-LAX bird returns to MIA and the NRT-LAX bird returns to NRT. The MIA-LAX flight simply positions a spare [good working] airframe at LAX as "revenue protection" just in case the NRT-LAX aircraft has a problem. In the days before it was a MIA-LAX flight, the spare plane had come from DFW or ORD. With the growth at MIA, more 777 assets were positioned there and that makes a "spare" airframe available to move to LAX once/day. Hence, it is planned as a MIA-LAX-MIA "turn."

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 15):
I think if the down time at MIA and JFK was sufficient it would be smart to send a 777 back and forth on a domestic trip to increase the number of seats in the market.

You need more than just the minimum "down time" to complete the flight you suggest. You also need to schedule in the maintenance time you would lose by flying the plane instead of fixing it. The international flights remain "high priority" so AA mgmt (currently) prefers to schedule the maintenance time for these birds instead of flying them domestically. ETOPS requirements are much more strict than domestic ops. and that means more maintenance man-hours required to maintain ETOPS standards.

Topic: RE: American Airlines: Why No 777 On JFK-MIA?
Username: JetBlue777
Posted 2009-08-04 17:38:22 and read 7128 times.

Hi, slightly off topic. Forgive my ingnorance but what are low and high yield flights?

Topic: RE: American Airlines: Why No 777 On JFK-MIA?
Username: N62NA
Posted 2009-08-04 17:41:48 and read 7118 times.



Quoting AAR90 (Reply 18):
Quoting AJMIA (Reply 15):
I think if the down time at MIA and JFK was sufficient it would be smart to send a 777 back and forth on a domestic trip to increase the number of seats in the market.



Quoting AAR90 (Reply 18):
You need more than just the minimum "down time" to complete the flight you suggest. You also need to schedule in the maintenance time you would lose by flying the plane instead of fixing it.

One other factor to consider.... with the almost daily, horrendous delays into the NYC airports, sending a 777 down to MIA from JFK and hoping that it will return anywhere near it's scheduled ariival time back in JFK would be pretty risky.

Topic: RE: American Airlines: Why No 777 On JFK-MIA?
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2009-08-06 13:47:44 and read 6584 times.



Quoting N623JB (Reply 12):
n my opinion, I dont think a 777 would be used, because it would take a lot of people to fill up the plane, comparing it to the 757(aircraft that is used JFK-MIA)...But also, too big to operate on this route. Its not like its a long haul route JFK-NRT. That I would see a 777 being used on.

The A300 was used on MIA-JFK 4x daily until the retirment phase-in. AA's A300s seat more people (267) than the 777 (247).

The 777 is not too big, capacity-wise, for MIA-JFK.

Topic: RE: American Airlines: Why No 777 On JFK-MIA?
Username: OP3000
Posted 2009-08-06 17:29:48 and read 6486 times.



Quoting JetBlue777 (Reply 19):
Hi, slightly off topic. Forgive my ingnorance but what are low and high yield flights?

Yield is how much revenue per seat is generated. Typically a high-yield flight is one where the airline can command high fares, whether its from coach or premium class (ideally both).

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 18):
In the days before it was a MIA-LAX flight, the spare plane had come from DFW or ORD. With the growth at MIA, more 777 assets were positioned there and that makes a "spare" airframe available to move to LAX once/day. Hence, it is planned as a MIA-LAX-MIA "turn."

IIRC AA rotates the 777s at LHR, which is where most of the birds flying to JFK head to. That way they avoid having to run them on JFK-LAX, JFK-MIA, JFK-DFW, JFK-ORD for rotation purposes.


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