Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4522532/

Topic: Rumor: US Filing Bankruptcy Today?
Username: ADXMatt
Posted 2009-08-18 07:30:15 and read 20324 times.

Hi All ...

If anyone would know it would be fellow A netters...

There has been chatter between flights on the North Atlantic regarding USAirways filing for BK today. I haven't seen anything on the internet or the US website.

Has anyone heard anything or seen a source for this? or is this just pilots talking smack?

I would be surprised with the recent slot swaps and all but who knows...

thanks everyone

Topic: Rumor: US Filing Bankruptcy Today?
Username: Richierich
Posted 2009-08-18 07:37:53 and read 20224 times.

I wouldn't think so... that would be very surprising news (although, like you said, anything in this industry shouldn't be shocking any more!).

I'm going with pilot banter on this one.

Topic: Rumor: US Filing Bankruptcy Today?
Username: IliriBDL
Posted 2009-08-18 07:41:16 and read 20159 times.

There hasn't been an announcement, and I'm sure the employees would get the news first.

Parker has the monthly crew meeting today in PHX.

Topic: Rumor: US Filing Bankruptcy Today?
Username: EMBQA
Posted 2009-08-18 07:47:34 and read 20035 times.

VERY doubtful.... mid week is not when companies will file. Traditionally it's done on fridays, plus mothing on any of the business websites.

[Edited 2009-08-18 07:49:41]

Topic: Rumor: US Filing Bankruptcy Today?
Username: PlaneAdmirer
Posted 2009-08-18 07:53:46 and read 19924 times.

There has been nothing in the WSJ or any where else showing what would be driving a bankruptcy filing. There should be some creditor, some contractual obligation coming due, or some judgment out there that would deplete their cash. Stock would be cratering if true.

Topic: Rumor: US Filing Bankruptcy Today?
Username: PlateMan
Posted 2009-08-18 08:17:09 and read 19592 times.

Looks to be completely false and baseless. The WSJ and other business news organizations carries no news of the sort.

Topic: Rumor: US Filing Bankruptcy Today?
Username: ADXMatt
Posted 2009-08-18 08:34:11 and read 19421 times.

Thanks Guys....

I thought it didn't sound right either but you all are the experts.

Topic: Rumor: US Filing Bankruptcy Today?
Username: RafflesKing
Posted 2009-08-18 09:33:51 and read 18725 times.

Throw in the fact they don't have any imminent debt servicing or liabilities requiring funding beyond their current assets, and this is definately just a baseless rumor.

Topic: Rumor: US Filing Bankruptcy Today?
Username: September11
Posted 2009-08-18 09:43:14 and read 18407 times.

Did US Airways ever file for bankruptcy? I know America West did but not sure about US Airways.

Topic: Rumor: US Filing Bankruptcy Today?
Username: NetjetsINTL
Posted 2009-08-18 09:49:02 and read 18240 times.



Quoting September11 (Reply 8):
Did US Airways ever file for bankruptcy? I know America West did but not sure about US Airways.

US Airways was in deep, DEEP trouble few years back..... I believe they did filed for chp.11, soon after many people were waiting for the chap.7 filling which never came, thanks to America West.

Topic: Rumor: US Filing Bankruptcy Today?
Username: Eraugrad02
Posted 2009-08-18 09:51:34 and read 18193 times.



Quoting September11 (Reply 8):
Did US Airways ever file for bankruptcy? I know America West did but not sure about US Airways.

Yes they did. Twice with-in five years...

Desmond in ILM,

Topic: Rumor: US Filing Bankruptcy Today?
Username: Texan
Posted 2009-08-18 11:23:23 and read 16431 times.



Quoting IliriBDL (Reply 2):
I'm sure the employees would get the news first.

Highly doubt it. The official word would likely be released to employees shortly after filing for bankruptcy in, probably, the Bankruptcy Court of the Southern District of New York. The S.D. of N.Y. tends to be pretty lenient with corporations in bk. Them and Delaware.

The employees would likely be one of the last to know.

Texan

Topic: Rumor: US Filing Bankruptcy Today?
Username: MoltenRock
Posted 2009-08-18 11:34:18 and read 16193 times.

I wonder if bankruptcies work like frequent flier miles. After you file so many, you get your 4th or 5th bankruptcy free. (Well, minus the last minute ticketing fee, 1st bag fee, 2nd bag fee, seating selection fee, taxes, surcharges, plus ancillary charges for a snack/s kind of "free") But you get my drift.  Big grin

Topic: Rumor: US Filing Bankruptcy Today?
Username: Cschleic
Posted 2009-08-18 11:44:40 and read 15995 times.

Even if they were, they would have hired a BK consultant a long time ago, and probably had to have disclosed that in an SEC filing. There would have been all sorts of news leading up to it.

Topic: Rumor: US Filing Bankruptcy Today?
Username: AvConsultant
Posted 2009-08-18 12:06:03 and read 15558 times.



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 3):
Traditionally it's done on fridays, plus mothing on any of the business websites.

Not correct.
US Airways 8/11/02 and 9/12/04 both on a Sunday
United filed 12/5/02 a Thursday.
Delta and NW both filed on a Tuesday (9/14/05).
Aloha 3/20/08 on a Sunday
ATA 4/2/08 on a Wednesday
Frontier 8/1108 a Monday

Airline who participates in IATA's Airline Clearing House more than likely Legacy carriers; tend to file bankruptcy the day after receiving funds (clearing) of their ticket revenue to avoid cash being tied up in the bankruptcy courts.
http://www.iata.org/ps/financial_services/clearinghouse/faq.htm

This is where some analyst predict airline filings. Keep in mind, they do not post on Airliners.net or Yahoo or CBS MarketWatch blogs. They work for the banks and/or creditors & diligently attempt to secure as much funding as possible. Sometimes leading to aggressive behavior by creditors (i.e. F9 last year). First Data held their funds once cash drops below a certain agreed upon level forcing Frontier to file BK.

Years ago, First Data utilized advanced technology (for its time) by courted several of the LCC carriers (Morris Air, ValuJet, Western Pacific, AirTran, AirSouth to name a few) as an alternative to the ACH by offering immediate access to funds (cash). Having immediate access to cash for a fee (First Data) compared to IATA ACH was important to upstarts.

IATA ACH is a not-for-profit organization. Thus less technology, not as robust and a lot of flexibility in hard time. Where as First Data is an $8B/yr revenue owned by the UK private equity firm KKR. Unlike the ACH, there is minimal dealings outside of your contract.

US is tied into IATA's ACH. In fact, I located this website listing IATA carriers filing or ceasing service. Very interesting.

http://www.airlines.org/economics/sp...altopics/USAirlineBankruptcies.htm

Topic: Rumor: US Filing Bankruptcy Today?
Username: Flyibaby
Posted 2009-08-18 12:14:49 and read 15368 times.

I thought I read not more than two months ago that US had secured more liquidity through a stock offering. Add that into the fact that they posted a profit for Q2, and I really think the news of a BK ...even before Q3 financials are out (which should be the best of the year) is bogus.

Topic: RE: Rumor:
Username: ABQopsHP
Posted 2009-08-18 15:03:52 and read 12864 times.

Someone said "the employees would get the news first." NOT ALWAYS! Doug Parker may be different than other teams that ran HP and US. However I was at the rally in PHX on June 26, 1992 when they were vowing we were not going to file BK. As I was getting ready for work at 5am on the 27th (my birthday) CNN said HP had filed BK. Hows that for getting the info first. Many companies after have pulled the rug out from under employees b4, without any advance notification. However I would like to belive that Doug is a better person than that.
JD CRPXE
Former HP/US emp.

Topic: RE: Rumor:
Username: GVROYphx
Posted 2009-08-18 17:23:13 and read 11089 times.

Yeah...this rumor might be from a ticked off US East pilot. Although US may be in BK by the end of the year or early next year if things dont improve....today came and went with no filing. I'd look for a filing next year...when money isn't as available for air carriers.

Topic: RE: Rumor:
Username: Steeler83
Posted 2009-08-18 17:37:11 and read 10874 times.



Quoting NetjetsINTL (Reply 9):
US Airways was in deep, DEEP trouble few years back..... I believe they did filed for chp.11, soon after many people were waiting for the chap.7 filling which never came, thanks to America West.



Quoting Eraugrad02 (Reply 10):
Twice with-in five years...

Yep... They were the first, I believe, to file for CH 11 following the events of 9-11 (early or mid-2002 IIRC). They briefly emerged in 2003, and were back in it in 2004. I should know, because that's when they started to axe the PIT hub...

Topic: RE: Rumor:
Username: USPIT10L
Posted 2009-08-18 18:26:25 and read 10127 times.



Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 18):
Yep... They were the first, I believe, to file for CH 11 following the events of 9-11 (early or mid-2002 IIRC). They briefly emerged in 2003, and were back in it in 2004. I should know, because that's when they started to axe the PIT hub...

Actually, the first to shutdown following 9/11 were National Airlines (mark II), ProAir and Midway Airlines. The PIT hub was actually announced as being pulled down before the second bankruptcy in 2004. The BK filing took place in December. The hub was downgraded in November.

Topic: RE: Rumor:
Username: A340Spotter
Posted 2009-08-19 00:32:28 and read 7077 times.



Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 19):
Actually, the first to shutdown following 9/11 were National Airlines (mark II), ProAir and Midway Airlines

Pro Air was already in Chapter 11, not operating flights when 9/11 occurred. Their reorganization hearing was held shortly thereafter (I think 9/12 or 9/13, IIRC) and the Judge advised them that "No low-cost carrier was going to survive in aviation after the event" and they filed Chapter 7 at that time. The MD-90s, famously painted in MZJ, never operated and were subsequently scrapped.

JSD

Topic: RE: Rumor:
Username: USAFDO
Posted 2009-08-19 00:48:16 and read 6925 times.

Who started this rumor, and what was the initial source of this announcement?

Topic: RE: Rumor:
Username: Lufthansa
Posted 2009-08-19 03:59:30 and read 5812 times.

Just a quick thought everybody. Did anybody look at USAirways stock price over the last day? Did this rumour cause it to drop by any chance? where their similar questions being asked on other sites, both aviation related and investment related?

Just a thought. Not necessarily accusing anybody of anything.

Topic: RE: Rumor:
Username: EDICHC
Posted 2009-08-19 07:40:23 and read 3823 times.



Quoting IliriBDL (Reply 2):
and I'm sure the employees would get the news first.

Would the stock markets not have to be informed first?

Topic: RE: Rumor:
Username: Majid
Posted 2009-08-19 10:50:48 and read 3434 times.



Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 12):

haha, that's really funny  Smile

Topic: RE: Rumor:
Username: Robsaw
Posted 2009-08-19 22:53:51 and read 2934 times.



Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 16):
Someone said "the employees would get the news first.

The employees would never get this first.

1. Legal filing (or notice of intent to file) first.
2. Then shareholders.
3. Then employees (maybe).
4. News agencies and general public via press release.

Of course, this could all happen almost simultaneously and include a press release.

Topic: RE: Rumor:
Username: NYC2theworld
Posted 2009-08-20 06:42:46 and read 2676 times.



Quoting Robsaw (Reply 25):
The employees would never get this first.

1. Legal filing (or notice of intent to file) first.
2. Then shareholders.
3. Then employees (maybe).
4. News agencies and general public via press release.

Of course, this could all happen almost simultaneously and include a press release.

Actually it would have to be more like this.

1. Legal Filing
2. Press conference/public statement/press release from company informing all stakeholders (shareholders, community, employees, etc.)
3. News Agencies pick up on press release from wire services
4. Possibly separate employee statement for employees (probably also publicly released)

If you inform some shareholders first then the general public, you will run afoul of disclosure rules by the SEC, which takes disclosure very seriously...therefore, its best to inform everybody all at the same time so nobody has an unfair advantage in the markets.


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/