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Topic: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: N62NA
Posted 2009-10-19 18:55:18 and read 7170 times.

Just checked the April schedule and it looks like several of the 763 / 757 flights are being replaced with 738s.

It appears that the trend is in favor of the 738 on this route and I wonder if, in the next 12 to 18 months, we may be seeing all 738s with the exception of the morning 777 on this route.

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: Crosswinds21
Posted 2009-10-19 19:11:19 and read 7131 times.

That would suck if it happened. On the other hand, although the current mix of 737/757/767/777s that AA has is pretty cool, it must create at least a certain amount of product confusion, especially in the premium cabins.

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2009-10-19 19:47:18 and read 7039 times.

No equipment past 10FEB10 has been finalized, so its moot. What you see is pure default schedules. We won't know until 3-4 weeks what AA does.

There is still a 763 on LAX-MIA, but not MIA-LAX, scheduled.

It is unlikely the route will lose it's dual-direction 763 service.

The current winter widebody schedule is 2x 763/1x 772 on MIA-LAX and 1x 763/1x 772 on LAX-MIA. That will likely continue past 10FEB10.

The title of your thread still doesn't make sense, though, because there are clearly three daily 757s on the route well into the future, just like there are right now. Though the 738s will be getting WiFi, so they will start being used more heavily on trans-cons.

AA has plenty of spare domestic 763 capacity to throw around in February, March and April, and has not decided yet where to use it, so 738/757s are being used in default on MIA-LAX/SFO/ORD/DFW.

From ORD, AA doesn't yet know the exact delivery schedule of the 738s, so S80s are still being used in default past 05JAN10.

[Edited 2009-10-19 19:52:45]

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: TUSAA
Posted 2009-10-19 20:23:39 and read 6934 times.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
AA has plenty of spare domestic 763 capacity to throw around in February, March and April, and has not decided yet where to use it, so 738/757s are being used in default on MIA-LAX/SFO/ORD/DFW.

AA was awarded some of the Military Airlift charters that run through next september' thats where the extra widebody capacity is going. Both 767's and 777's will be used when needed' and can be taken out of scheduled service if need be.

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2009-10-19 20:28:06 and read 6940 times.



Quoting TUSAA (Reply 3):

AA was awarded some of the Military Airlift charters that run through next september' thats where the extra widebody capacity is going. Both 767's and 777's will be used when needed' and can be taken out of scheduled service if need be.

That's too bad from a passenger standpoint, but certainly good for AA. Guess I know which MIA-LAX flights I'm sticking myself on through September.

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: Tommy767
Posted 2009-10-19 20:43:40 and read 6901 times.

My question is when is AA going to start putting the new 738s from DFW to the northeast and the west? The M80 segments from DFW to BOS/EWR/LGA/PHL/SJC/SFO/PDX/SEA are certainly lengthy routes that have no sign of upgrading in sight with the ORD priority. Some of the ORD 738 routes aren't even that long!

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2009-10-19 20:45:06 and read 6892 times.



Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 5):
My question is when is AA going to start putting the new 738s from DFW to the northeast and the west? The M80 segments from DFW to BOS/EWR/LGA/PHL/SJC/SFO/PDX/SEA are certainly lengthy routes that have no sign of upgrading in sight with the ORD priority. Some of the ORD 738 routes aren't even that long!

It is my understanding that all new 738s are Chicago-based aircraft, and will be for the considerable future.

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: Super80DFW
Posted 2009-10-19 20:45:27 and read 6892 times.



Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 5):

Currently, AA has no plans of moving the new 738's to DFW at all. As for the old 738's, I suppose it could happen, but I don't see it happening. AA is very comfortable with the S80's on these routes.

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: Tommy767
Posted 2009-10-19 20:49:41 and read 6876 times.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
It is my understanding that all new 738s are Chicago-based aircraft, and will be for the considerable future.



Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 7):
Currently, AA has no plans of moving the new 738's to DFW at all. As for the old 738's, I suppose it could happen, but I don't see it happening. AA is very comfortable with the S80's on these routes

Thats so weird. Why are they so comfortable with having them based at ORD and not DFW?

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: OB1504
Posted 2009-10-19 20:58:03 and read 6849 times.



Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 8):
Thats so weird. Why are they so comfortable with having them based at ORD and not DFW?

I can imagine that it would be because the MD-80 can pretty much reach anywhere in the country from DFW, while it can have some trouble reaching the West Coast from ORD.

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: Crosswinds21
Posted 2009-10-19 21:32:41 and read 6770 times.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
It is my understanding that all new 738s are Chicago-based aircraft, and will be for the considerable future.

Looking at the loaded schedule for early 2010, the new 737s are also scheduled for LAX-DEN, LAX-YYZ, and LAX-BOS (unless there was another LAX routing that I missed).

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2009-10-19 21:33:48 and read 6770 times.



Quoting Crosswinds21 (Reply 10):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
It is my understanding that all new 738s are Chicago-based aircraft, and will be for the considerable future.

Looking at the loaded schedule for early 2010, the new 737s are also scheduled for LAX-DEN, LAX-YYZ, and LAX-BOS (unless there was another LAX routing that I missed).

Yes, but they are still Chicago-based. The new 738s will also be doing routes like LAX-EWR.

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: Crosswinds21
Posted 2009-10-19 21:37:23 and read 6763 times.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
Yes, but they are still Chicago-based. The new 738s will also be doing routes like LAX-EWR.

That's true, they still are Chicago "based." Although I was still kinda surprised to see these routes because as far as I thought, they were supposed to be flying only ORD routes for now.

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: Tommy767
Posted 2009-10-19 21:54:32 and read 6727 times.



Quoting Crosswinds21 (Reply 10):
LAX-BOS (unless there was another LAX routing that I missed).

Nashville maybe?

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: Crosswinds21
Posted 2009-10-19 22:59:17 and read 6657 times.



Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 13):
Nashville maybe?

Nah...looked there. Nothing through March anyway. AA doesn't have that many domestic mainline flights out of LAX other than Hawaii and transcon (I think just DEN, YYZ, BNA, STL, SFO, and AUS). I think MAH4546 said somewhere earlier that AA plans on making LAX a "hub" soon. Hopefully, more destinations will get added then.

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: Byrdluvs747
Posted 2009-10-19 23:08:41 and read 6643 times.

I always wondered why there is no dedicated Flagship service on the LAX-MIA-LAX route. Is the premium traffic between these two markets that low? Could it work on MIA-SFO-MIA?

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2009-10-19 23:09:14 and read 6643 times.



Quoting Crosswinds21 (Reply 14):
I think MAH4546 said somewhere earlier that AA plans on making LAX a "hub" soon. Hopefully, more destinations will get added then.

I personally think AA will grow LAX into a hub in the next few years, but that's not fact. Though, for all intensive purposes, AA's LAX operation already is a "hub" in everything but name. Significant connecting traffic already flows through LAX on AA daily, and it's AA's fourth largest operation after DFW, MIA and ORD.

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: Crosswinds21
Posted 2009-10-20 00:43:46 and read 6550 times.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
I personally think AA will grow LAX into a hub in the next few years, but that's not fact. Though, for all intensive purposes, AA's LAX operation already is a "hub" in everything but name. Significant connecting traffic already flows through LAX on AA daily, and it's AA's fourth largest operation after DFW, MIA and ORD.

You're right about the size of AA's ops at LAX today. However, the only thing I would say is that their west coast presence is pathetic - relatively speaking. They do codeshare with AS on many routes out of LAX but codeshares do not a hub make. I would like to see some flights to places like SEA, PDX, SMF, GEG, YVR, etc. (although there's too much capacity to SEA already). I'm glad that they started ROW and soon to be SAF as these seem to be very profitable routes. Hopefully AA can find some of of these "hidden" markets and make them work. Despite all this (and you may disagree with me), AA would really need to increase its mainline flying into new markets in order to be a hub. Some examples that come to mind are cities like SLC, ATL, DTW, IAH, RDU, and the ones listed above. I realize that not all of these would be viable from a profitability standpoint but I just don't think you can call LAX a hub you have to either codeshare or routes pax through DFW or ORD to get them to many of these places.  twocents 

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: Crosswinds21
Posted 2009-10-20 01:02:54 and read 6534 times.



Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 15):
I always wondered why there is no dedicated Flagship service on the LAX-MIA-LAX route. Is the premium traffic between these two markets that low? Could it work on MIA-SFO-MIA?

There is. The once-daily 777 flight.

Not sure about SFO-MIA. I know that it's there on LAX-MIA mostly due to the entertainment industry. I don't think there's as much of that in SFO.

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: Byrdluvs747
Posted 2009-10-20 01:23:38 and read 6514 times.



Quoting Crosswinds21 (Reply 17):
I would like to see some flights to places like SEA, PDX, SMF, GEG, YVR, etc.

Why would AA fly those with their own metal when AS operates those routes from LAX already and at lower operating costs than AA can. The AA-AS partnership exists because AA can't effectively compete in the low-fare shootout that often goes on in the west.

What would be nice is if AS and AA were closer at LAX.

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2009-10-20 01:24:13 and read 6512 times.



Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 15):
I always wondered why there is no dedicated Flagship service on the LAX-MIA-LAX route.

AA has a daily 3-class AFS flight on the route. It is a large premium market.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 15):
Could it work on MIA-SFO-MIA?

This winter there will be two daily 763s. There is no demand for 3-class service on the route like MIA-LAX, though.

Quoting Crosswinds21 (Reply 17):
They do codeshare with AS on many routes out of LAX but codeshares do not a hub make. I would like to see some flights to places like SEA, PDX, SMF, GEG, YVR, etc. (although there's too much capacity to SEA already)

Codeshares don't "make" a hub, but they feed a hub, and AA is happy to let AS and its low cost structure operate the highly-competitive, low-fare intra-West Coast markets.

Quoting Crosswinds21 (Reply 17):
I realize that not all of these would be viable from a profitability standpoint but I just don't think you can call LAX a hub you have to either codeshare or routes pax through DFW or ORD to get them to many of these places.

There is no list of cities required to define a "hub." AA's LAX operation is a de facto hub because AA contects thousands upon thousands of people daily between LAX and points intra-California, to Tokyo, and on codeshare services with oneWorld, AS and MU.

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: LACA773
Posted 2009-10-20 05:00:24 and read 6394 times.



Quoting OB1504 (Reply 9):
can imagine that it would be because the MD-80 can pretty much reach anywhere in the country from DFW, while it can have some trouble reaching the West Coast from ORD.

It's much more economical to fly 73Hs on ORD-LAX/SAN/SFO/SJC/SEA as well eventually to LAS, PHX and etc versus flying the S80s.

Quoting Crosswinds21 (Reply 10):
Looking at the loaded schedule for early 2010, the new 737s are also scheduled for LAX-DEN, LAX-YYZ, and LAX-BOS (unless there was another LAX routing that I missed).

LAX-EWR and LAX-IAD (IAD is a 752 & 2-73Hs).

Quoting Crosswinds21 (Reply 17):

You're right about the size of AA's ops at LAX today. However, the only thing I would say is that their west coast presence is pathetic - relatively speaking. They do codeshare with AS on many routes out of LAX but codeshares do not a hub make. I would like to see some flights to places like SEA, PDX, SMF, GEG, YVR, etc. (although there's too much capacity to SEA already). I'm glad that they started ROW and soon to be SAF as these seem to be very profitable routes. Hopefully AA can find some of of these "hidden" markets and make them work. Despite all this (and you may disagree with me), AA would really need to increase its mainline flying into new markets in order to be a hub. Some examples that come to mind are cities like SLC, ATL, DTW, IAH, RDU, and the ones listed above. I realize that not all of these would be viable from a profitability standpoint but I just don't think you can call LAX a hub you have to either codeshare or routes pax through DFW or ORD to get them to many of these places.

AA's costs are way too high. Prime example. AA axed SEA/SJC-AUS and AS has picked them up accordingly. They will be able to operate these flights at much lower costs than AA thus making some money on them.

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: AABB777
Posted 2009-10-20 05:06:06 and read 6386 times.

Speaking of the AA-AS codeshare partnership, does AA codeshare on the AS DCA-LAX flight?

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: N62NA
Posted 2009-10-20 06:39:58 and read 6276 times.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
The title of your thread still doesn't make sense, though, because there are clearly three daily 757s on the route well into the future, just like there are right now. Though the 738s will be getting WiFi, so they will start being used more heavily on trans-cons.

Of course it makes sense if you take the increase in 738s on the route as indications of a trend. If LAX-MIA is such an important premium traffic route, and the 757s won't be refurbished or getting WiFi for quite some time, and they have new 738s coming in the door at a rate of 1 every week or two, and they offer WiFi, then wouldn't a move to all 738s (and the 777) at least standardize the product on this important high premium demand route and offer an improvement over the worn out 757 F product they currently have on the route?

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
Yes, but they are still Chicago-based. The new 738s will also be doing routes like LAX-EWR.

And a few weeks ago when I pointed this out you said I didn't know what I was talking about and it didn't mean anything that the 738 was showing up in the Spring 2010 schedule, it was just there as a placeholder. So, now I suppose you have official confirmation?

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: Ckfred
Posted 2009-10-20 12:22:37 and read 5776 times.



Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 5):
My question is when is AA going to start putting the new 738s from DFW to the northeast and the west? The M80 segments from DFW to BOS/EWR/LGA/PHL/SJC/SFO/PDX/SEA are certainly lengthy routes that have no sign of upgrading in sight with the ORD priority. Some of the ORD 738 routes aren't even that long!



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
It is my understanding that all new 738s are Chicago-based aircraft, and will be for the considerable future.

A friend of mine will start flying as a 738 captain out of ORD next month. The new 738s will stay as Chicago-based aircraft, until AA starts to upgrade the older 738s (new IFE, new seats, improved avionics, HUD, etc.). Then, the Chicago airplanes will circulate throughout the system.

Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 8):
Thats so weird. Why are they so comfortable with having them based at ORD and not DFW?

Because ORD didn't have any 738s, whereas 738s do go in and out of DFW. The assumption is that AA, flying MD-80s, is at a disadvantage out of ORD versus UA with its A319/A320 fleet, as well as other carriers flying 737NGs and Aibuses.

Since AA doesn't have the same competition problem at DFW, the need was to put the 738s into ORD.

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: N1120A
Posted 2009-10-20 12:55:42 and read 5602 times.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
Though, for all intensive purposes, AA's LAX operation already is a "hub" in everything but name. Significant connecting traffic already flows through LAX on AA daily, and it's AA's fourth largest operation after DFW, MIA and ORD.

They should really pick up the Eagle feed then. United/Skywest owns that market right now.

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: AAR90
Posted 2009-10-20 13:37:08 and read 5480 times.

AA aircraft are not "based" anywhere. The planes are "routed" (not "based") throughout the system (primarily for marketing & maintenance reasons). New delivery 738s are currently being route restricted to PRIMARILY ORD routes. That is because different sub-fleet configurations create unnecessary confusion (and marketing reasons previously mentioned) that are best controlled by limiting the number of airports served by differently configured acft [no "old" 738s are scheduled to transit ORD].

However, new delivery 738s are scheduled on numerous non-ORD flights as well as used as "substitution" acft on a more frequent basis. Eg. MIA-LAX 738 flights are scheduled with 4 FA's (service workload) so instead of adding a MIA based FA to work the westbound leg, AA schedules a 4th FA to "deadhead" with the crew on the eastbound (redeye) fight the night before. That way if there is a substitution of equipment to a new 738, there is already a full crew assigned (deadhead changed to "working" status). This has happened to me twice this month alone.

Expect to see the non-ORD flying gradually increase with the addition of in new airframes to the fleet (~3/month).

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: ElmoTheHobo
Posted 2009-10-20 13:52:22 and read 5362 times.



Quoting AABB777 (Reply 22):
Speaking of the AA-AS codeshare partnership, does AA codeshare on the AS DCA-LAX flight?

No. Alaska does code share on American's LAX-IAD though.

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: DFWEagle
Posted 2009-10-20 14:06:36 and read 5293 times.



Quoting AAR90 (Reply 26):
AA aircraft are not "based" anywhere. The planes are "routed" (not "based") throughout the system (primarily for marketing & maintenance reasons). New delivery 738s are currently being route restricted to PRIMARILY ORD routes. That is because different sub-fleet configurations create unnecessary confusion (and marketing reasons previously mentioned) that are best controlled by limiting the number of airports served by differently configured acft [no "old" 738s are scheduled to transit ORD].

However, new delivery 738s are scheduled on numerous non-ORD flights as well as used as "substitution" acft on a more frequent basis. Eg. MIA-LAX 738 flights are scheduled with 4 FA's (service workload) so instead of adding a MIA based FA to work the westbound leg, AA schedules a 4th FA to "deadhead" with the crew on the eastbound (redeye) fight the night before. That way if there is a substitution of equipment to a new 738, there is already a full crew assigned (deadhead changed to "working" status). This has happened to me twice this month alone.

Expect to see the non-ORD flying gradually increase with the addition of in new airframes to the fleet (~3/month).

Thanks for the info, AAR90  Smile

A bit of an unrelated question, but would you be able to post a current list of the AA fleet (ship numbers/sub-fleets)?

It would be really interesting to see how the 738 deliveries are going and how the 757 re-configs are progressing too.

Thanks,

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: AAR90
Posted 2009-10-20 23:51:44 and read 4197 times.

I can not vouch for this list's accuracy. Only 757 & 737 fleets listed.

75WP => 5FE, 5FF, 5FG, 5FH

75EP => 5DE, 5DF, 5DJ, 5ER, 5ES, 5EY, 5FA, 5FB, 5FC, 5FD

75EL => 5ET, 5EU, 5EV, 5EW, 5EX, 5FJ, 5FK, 5FL, 5FM, 5FN, 5FP, 5FR, 5FS, 5FT

B75W => 5BR, 5BS, 5BT, 5BU, 5BV, 5BW, 5BY, 5CA, 5CB, 5CC, 5CD, 5CE, 5CF, 5CG, 5CH, 5CJ, 5CK, 5CL, 5CM, 5CN, 5CP, 5CR, 5CS, 5CT, 5CU, 5CV, 5CW, 5CX, 5CY, 5DA, 5DB, 5DC, 5DD, 5DL, 5DM, 5DN, 5DP, 5DR, 5DS, 5DT, 5DU, 5DV, 5DW, 5DX, 5DY, 5EA, 5EB, 5EE, 5EF, 5EG, 5EH, 5EJ, 5EK, 5EL, 5EM, 5EN, 5EP, 610, 611, 612, 613, 614, 615, 616, 617, 618, 619, 620, 621, 622, 623, 624, 625, 626, 627, 628, 629, 630, 631, 632, 633, 634, 635, 636, 637, 638, 639, 640, 641, 642, 643

75ER => 5DG, 5DH, 5DK, 5EC, 5ED

738W => 3AA, 3AB, 3AC, 3AD, 3AE, 3AF, 3AG, 3AH, 3AJ, 3AK, 3AL, 3AM, 3AN, 3AP, 3AR, 3AS, 3AT, 3AU, 3AV, 3AW, 3AX, 3AY, 3BA, 3BB, 3BC, 3BD, 3BE, 3BF, 3BG, 3BH, 3BJ, 3BK, 3BL, 3BM, 3BN, 3BP, 3BR, 3BS, 3BT, 3BU, 3BV, 3BW, 3BX, 3BY, 3CA, 3CB, 3CC, 3CD, 3CE, 3CF, 3CG, 3CH, 3CJ, 3CK, 3CL, 3CM, 3CN, 3CP, 3CR, 3CS, 3CT, 3CU, 3CV, 3CW, 3CX, 3CY, 3DA, 3DB, 3DC, 3DD, 3DE, 3DF, 3DG, 3DH, 3DJ, 3DK, 3DL

738D => 3DM, 3DN, 3DP, 3DR, 3DS, 3DT, 3DU, 3DV, 3DW, 3DX, 3DY, 3EA, 3EB, 3EC, 3ED, 3EE, 3EF, 3EG, 3EH, 3EJ, 3EK, 3EL, 3EM, 3EN, 3EP, 3ER, 3ES, 3ET, 3EU, 3EV, 3EW, 3EX, 3EY, 3FA, 3FB, 3FC, 3FD

Topic: RE: Will AA Go All 738 (and A 777) On MIA-LAX?
Username: DFWEagle
Posted 2009-10-21 02:17:08 and read 4156 times.



Quoting AAR90 (Reply 29):

Thanks for that – it is very much appreciated!!  Smile


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