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Topic: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Behramjee
Posted 2009-10-08 14:29:27 and read 9836 times.

Air India has officially disclosed to the media that it has issued a tender to dry lease out 3 of its Boeing 777-200LRs + 4 Airbus A 310-300 Freighters as it engages in ways to build revenue and cut costs as the carrier has incurred massive losses this year.

The airline's management too disclosed that it is seriously examining its JFK nonstop flights from Delhi to Washington DC and from Mumbai to Boston respectively in order to spend money recklessly on paying for parking the 2 B 77Ls at JFK on a daily basis from 9 to 14 hours. If the JFK plan does get the go ahead, the flights would then be routed DEL JFK IAD JFK DEL and BOM JFK BOS JFK BOM. Lastly, capacity on the AMD-FRA route has been reduced from a daily B 77W to a daily B 77L.

Analysis:

This analysis will be in great detail and will concentrate on which airline should take up the leased out aircraft + why AI should not go ahead with the plan of messing around with its established nonstop JFK flights. To begin with, we shall discuss the latter. It is no big secret that even though load factors have steadily improved, the yields are low and operating costs of these flights high. Now if one already knows that the cost of operating this flight is very high, why would you increase it further by extending it to fly JFK-IAD-JFK on a sector that does not allow the carriage of 5th freedom traffic thus unable to generate any further revenue for the airline. It is cheaper to pay for parking at JFK rather than to operate a JFK IAD JFK flight. AI's top brass believe that there is a big market out of IAD bound to DEL to the tune that it could increase the JFK flight's load factor by 20% i.e. 50 passengers per flight. Now that maybe so but if proper research was conducted, statistics available from the FAA and U.S. DOT officially show that in 2008, the size of the IAD-DEL-IAD O&D market segment was 55 passengers per day fought over by QR/LH/BA/AF/KL/CO/AA where as the total IAD-India-IAD market segment size was 140 passengers per day. There is no way that either of these well established airlines would just let AI walk in, ruin their parade and gobble up their entire market share nor would Air India be able to attract passengers bound to South India in particular on this flight nor would AI be able to get some form of "feeder traffic" from UA out of IAD because of the numerous stops incurred for Indian passengers en-route.

The only market that segment that AI has a decent chance of capturing is the O&D IAD-DEL-IAD sector where it too will face problems. It will at the up most be able to attract 30-35 passengers (my forecast) from IAD on a daily basis which in itself would be at a huge burden because it would have to offer extremely low fares and hope that the competition doesn't match. But even then, the additional cost of operating With regards to the high fare, high yield paying premium passenger, unless the fare is US$ 2500 + taxes, one does not see any hope for these passengers flying on board AI because on their return journey they would need to first do their immigration upon the plane's landing at JFK which is a big hassle and a mega turn off. This point also holds true for a vast majority of economy class fare paying passengers hence you see the likes of QR/BA/LH/AF/KL dominating the IAD-DEL/BOM-IAD market segment and not CO/AA/DL. Due to a multitude of options now available to the Indian passenger from USA to India, a vast majority prefer convenient one stop options and being able to clear U.S. Immigration at their final destination in USA if it can be helped. This is especially true for South India bound passengers who now (outside of the JFK city region) refuse to fly to MAA/COK/BLR/TRV/HYD via BOM/DEL because the journey would entail 2 stops + clearing customs and immigration at BOM/DEL. EK, EY and QR now control the Kerala-USA market due to the whole host of connections on offer via their respective hubs in the Middle East where as market share for MAA/HYD/BLR is keenly fought amongst EK/QR/LH/BA/AF and 9W (MAA only). In short, no passenger would be willing to fly AI IAD JFK DEL South India if they can help it as its faster and more convenient to do so with the competition especially QR!

Therefore it can be concluded that if the DEL JFK / BOM JFK flight is to be extended to IAD/BOS, it is guaranteed to be a huge failure and a further financial burden on an already loss making route due to the higher operating + marketing costs involved!

If Air India really want to grab a chunk of the IAD market share, it has been constantly been suggested in this newsletter over the period of 2 years that the best method would be to fly DEL-IAD-DEL nonstop 3 times per week only using a B 77L with a UAL code share deal in place. If this is not possible or financially viable, then the other 2 "new options" that can be looked into are the following:

1. Fly 3 weekly HYD-FRA-IAD using a B 77L. Instead of leasing out 3 B 77Ls, AI should use one of those 3 to fly HYD FRA IAD three times per week for which one aircraft is needed maximum. By flying via IAD, AI covers all its bases as via the FRA hub, it can get passengers from the IAD area bound to DEL/AMD/ATQ/BOM and HYD + get useful 5th freedom traffic on the IAD/FRA/IAD sector. This will also help lift their YYZ, ORD and EWR flight loads as they will be able to attract HYD bound pax more easily as the flight will be one stop via FRA rather than the current 2 stops i.e. ORD-FRA-BOM-change of plane at BOM-HYD. As one already knows the HYD ORD and HYD NYC market segment size is HUGE and one cannot be left ignored! Therefore if this proposal is accepted, the IAD flight can be supported by 6 market segments which is more than enough.

2. The second, albeit more radical option which would require a lot of "outside the box" thinking on the part of Air India's management is to fly DEL MILAN (MXP) WASHINGTON DC three times per week using a B 77L. Now why should AI seriously examine flying to IAD from DEL via MXP? The reasons are as follows:

a) The DEL MXP DEL O&D market segment size is 100 passengers per day where as DEL ITALY DEL total is 160 passengers per day. Ever since AZ suspended its Italy-India-Italy flights, no airline offers a nonstop flight from Italy to India much to the dismay of the 65,000 Indians residing in Northern Italy in particular for which MXP is their main international gatway point. Approximately 80% of the Indians in Italy today originate from the Punjab region of India and thus DEL is the main international airport of entry and exit for them!

b) No airline offers a nonstop flight from Washington DC to Milan which according to the U.S. DOT has a market size of 25,000 O&D passengers per year.

c) AI would have a monopoly on both the DEL MXP and MXP IAD sectors thus it would be able to generate higher yielding passengers by charging a small premium to fly nonstop in economy class and a higher premium to fly nonstop in first and business class.

d) Cargo volume between MXP and DEL is huge year round and an excellent source of additional high yielding revenue for AI to abstract from this route.

e) MXP is the financial capital of Italy thus home to a huge premium class flying passenger base. By offering a nonstop MXP IAD MXP flight, it would be attracting a lot of F and J class fare paying pax to/from the MXP area and more so if UAL decides that it wants to code share on this trans-atlantic route which would come in handy big time!

f) Via MXP, AI can get feeder traffic for FCO/VCE/Switzerland/Austria/Poland by signing SPA deals with AZ and fellow Star Alliance carriers.

g) AI would have 3 different market segments to help support this flight i.e. DEL-IAD + MXP-IAD + DEL-MXP out of which it would have a monopoly on two of those.

Now with regards to which airlines would want to approach Air India for its fleet of 3 B 77Ls and what routes should be they used on, my opinions are as follows:

1. Kuwait Airways - KU needs an image make over and what better way to do it than to lease in these 3 B 77Ls to be used on their flagship JFK and LHR routes exclusively. How? Simple...replace the 2 B 772s that KU currently uses on 3 weekly KWI LHR JFK + 3 weekly KWI JFK nonstop with 6 weekly nonstop KWI JFK flights which would require 2 B 77Ls to be used. The third one can be used exclusively for KWI LHR KWI. The B 772s that get withdrawn from JFK and LON can be used to replace the aging and inefficient A 343s on the KWI BKK MNL route which is currently flown 6 times per week. The 2 A 343s that are withdrawn from BKK/MNL can used to replace the AB6s to FCO and CDG.

2. Turkish Airlines - TK is embarking on a major long haul expansion spree and with leased 9W B 77Ws already in its fleet, it could do with 3 B 77Ls to open LAX before its newly ordered B 77Ws from Boeing arrive in 2-3 years. TK has already mentioned officially many times in the media recently that its next 2 USA destinations would be IAD with an A 332 and LAX with a B 77W so it could easily get a head start by using these 3 B 77Ls exclusively to fly daily IST LAX IST operations with perhaps a same plane extension to DXB. Then as the route matures and develops itself in the California market, it can within 2 years time increase capacity from a 240 seater B 77L to a 320 seater B 77W.

3. Ethiopian Airlines - due to major delays with the B 787 program, ET have already ordered 5 B 77Ls for Boeing in the form of a negotiated compensation settlement. But building new B 77Ls takes time so if ET really want to stick to its plan, then it should lease these 3 AI B 77Ls to launch ADD IAD nonstop 4 times per week along side PEK ADD nonstop 3 times per week.

4. Qatar Airways - problem here is that these AI B 77Ls come in 3 classes where as QR's B 777 fleet are all 2 class configured aircraft (J/Y) hence it might lead to a bit of in flight product inconsistency but once again over here too, money is no object so if it wants to get its foot in the Latin America market asap to help support its SE Asia and new DOH NRT flight from next year onwards, then it should get these 3 B 77Ls to launch new daily DOH GRU EZE services.

5. Etihad Airways - money is no object for this airline and hence it could these 3 B 77Ls to launch AUH LAX nonstop on a daily basis with a code share with AA who has a hub at LAX!

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Blr380
Posted 2009-10-08 14:50:02 and read 9782 times.

Excellent Points - I wish the deicion makers at AI had some brains like u or at least seriously consider these points. I strongly feel that both IAD/BOS hops out of JFK is a suicide mission with no local traffic rights. HYD-FRA-IAD should work great especially if AI wants to grow thier hub out of FRA. MXP is a great idea (never thought about it) - but it takes someone to think outside the box.
On another note, is there anything that can be done with regard to timing the JFK flights(unless the slots aren't available)? Each time I pass through JFK, I hate to see the AI birds beauty sleeping.

[Edited 2009-10-08 15:33:43 by blr380]

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Abrelosojos
Posted 2009-10-08 15:10:30 and read 9732 times.

Aah ... so you come around to my analysis a while back that DEL - MXP is an unserved market that needs addressing soon  Smile.

However, if AI did think "out of the box", they should try DEL - MXP - LAX.

Saludos,
A.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Behramjee
Posted 2009-10-08 15:18:36 and read 9708 times.



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 2):
Aah ... so you come around to my analysis a while back that DEL - MXP is an unserved market that needs addressing soon Smile.
However, if AI did think "out of the box", they should try DEL - MXP - LAX.

Saludos,
A.

Honestly speaking, I dont recall reading your previous post concerning DEL-MXP being an unserved market but nevertheless good to know we think alike  Smile

DEL MXP LAX wont be possible due to aircraft rotation problems.

Air India can in the future only fly to LAX and SFO nonstop from DEL with a B 77L to be competitive and allow for easy aircraft rotations.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Ojas
Posted 2009-10-08 15:26:11 and read 9691 times.



Quoting Blr380 (Reply 1):
I strongly feel that neither IAD/BOS hops out of JFK is a suicide mission with no local traffic rights.

It is suicidal, no way it is going to be successful.

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 3):
Honestly speaking, I dont recall reading your previous post concerning DEL-MXP

Jet Airways 9W To Europe? (by Airmale Jul 24 2009 in Civil Aviation)#1

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Tharanga
Posted 2009-10-08 15:31:56 and read 9677 times.



Quoting Blr380 (Reply 1):
I strongly feel that neither IAD/BOS hops out of JFK is a suicide mission with no local traffic rights.

Even if it had local rights, would anybody fly it?

It's a question of just how high the JFK parking fees are.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Blr380
Posted 2009-10-08 15:35:55 and read 9660 times.



Quoting Ojas (Reply 4):
Quoting Blr380 (Reply 1):
I strongly feel that neither IAD/BOS hops out of JFK is a suicide mission with no local traffic rights.

It is suicidal, no way it is going to be successful.

Sorry - I meant both IAD/BOS hops would be suicidal! (corrected!)

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: WestWing
Posted 2009-10-08 15:37:50 and read 9656 times.

A 3/wk 77L non-stop IAD-DEL offering 714 seats/wk for a total IAD-DEL market of 385 pax/wk ?

By the way there are crew scheduling issues with 3/week non-stop services to IAD because the IAD crew would get either a 2 or 3 day layover, unless you shuttle them to/from EWR or JFK. I suspect that the normal layover for the crew for the JFK non-stops is ~ 30 hours.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Behramjee
Posted 2009-10-08 17:00:04 and read 9545 times.



Quoting WestWing (Reply 7):
A 3/wk 77L non-stop IAD-DEL offering 714 seats/wk for a total IAD-DEL market of 385 pax/wk ?

See the current market size is 55 pax per day in a recession economy. In 2007 in comparison, the market size was 100 pax per day for IAD DEL IAD O&D pax.

If UA code share with AI on this route, then my fore cast load factor in the first 2 years would be 79% i.e. 190 seats which AI would get in the following manner:

a) 100 O&D pax for each flight

b) 70 pax obtained with UA code share from SEA/IAH/DFW/LAX/SFO/MIA/ATL/BOS/CLT/LAS/DTW/DEN/SLC/MSP/PHX/PDX.

c) 20 pax bound to DAC/KTM/COK/TRV/MAA/HYD/BLR via DEL from the IAD area only as it would be a one stop flight for the South Indian pax and not 2 stops!

d) cargo should be 85% full both ways so an additional form of revenue.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: ThegreatRDU
Posted 2009-10-08 18:55:50 and read 9424 times.

Air India is bleeding money already...do they want to lose more? they need to settle down...they already serve USA well

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: WestWing
Posted 2009-10-08 19:03:07 and read 9393 times.

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 8):
If UA code share with AI on this route

Yes, if AI were to start IAD-DEL, then the UA code share is critical to allow government travelers to fly the AI flight while complying with the provisions of the Fly America Act. Many large private businesses that do government work also implement internal Fly America policies.

I do not know when AI will finally get their act together to be able to join Star Alliance, but AI could consider working a promotional deal with UA such that passengers traveling on paid business or first fares (e.g. D,C,A,F classes) are awarded (say) triple EQMs if flying on the UA coded ticket.

AI would have to pay UA for this to happen. The point is to make the AI flight a sweeter deal from a mileage earning perspective for the large population of UA Mileage Plus members who are high yield customers - to draw them away from Lufthansa, Swiss or Austrian.

If only there was an easy way to solve the crew positioning issues related to non-daily flights.

[Edited 2009-10-08 19:24:56]

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Ojas
Posted 2009-10-08 19:44:22 and read 9326 times.



Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 9):
Air India is bleeding money already...do they want to lose more? they need to settle down...they already serve USA well



 checkmark 

Things that AI should have done:-

1. Should have pushed the Govt to make BOM,DEL,MAA international standard hubs.
2. Started flying non stop to ORD, SFO.
3. Should made an aircraft purchase in the late 90s foreseeing the requirement of modern aircrafts, or at least made a drastic improvement in the existing aircrafts.

Things AI can do now:-

1. Adjust the schedules to connect Gulf and SE asian destinations more efficiently and more importantly ADVERTISE them as no one knows they do that.
2. As of today BOM, DEL have reached to a mark where it is an airport one can transit conveniently and peacefully.
3. Cease thinking about USA, no point in shooting yourself on the foot. Concentrate on improving AI's image.
4. The most important part, get this airline privatized, until which none of anyone's suggestions are going to matter no matter how much we brainstorm on AI's problems.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Alphaomega
Posted 2009-10-08 20:11:13 and read 9287 times.

The forecasted seats aside, SV previously operated JED/RUH-JFK-IAD-JFK-RUH/JED and it may or may not have worked well, but now they are operating a combination of JED and RUH-IAD 3x weekly, and are working on daily.

What would be the chances of AI testing this route in the same manner as SV, and following the same route? Was this just due to the high traffic between DC and the Kingdom? Was the route underserved at the time and SV is able to do well with direct flights?

Just curious as to any differences between what SV did and what AI is planning as of Dec 1.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Bohica
Posted 2009-10-08 21:49:40 and read 9194 times.

Besides economic reasons, IAD/BOS tags would be a lousy idea because if the northeast is groundstopped on any given afternoon AI has 2 777's stranded in IAD/BOS waiting to get back to JFK. This would obviously delay the flights back to BOM/DEL.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Pellegrine
Posted 2009-10-08 22:48:03 and read 9138 times.

Thank you for your analysis Behramjee, I enjoyed reading it, very well thought out.

Quoting Behramjee (Thread starter):
If Air India really want to grab a chunk of the IAD market share, it has been constantly been suggested in this newsletter over the period of 2 years that the best method would be to fly DEL-IAD-DEL nonstop 3 times per week only using a B 77L with a UAL code share deal in place.

I believe that in a time of good traffic, there definitely is a possibility for this to be successful. For now, probably not.

Quoting Behramjee (Thread starter):
The DEL MXP DEL O&D market segment size is 100 passengers per day where as DEL ITALY DEL total is 160 passengers per day. Ever since AZ suspended its Italy-India-Italy flights, no airline offers a nonstop flight from Italy to India much to the dismay of the 65,000 Indians residing in Northern Italy in particular for which MXP is their main international gatway point. Approximately 80% of the Indians in Italy today originate from the Punjab region of India and thus DEL is the main international airport of entry and exit for them!

If anything, there should be the A332 on this route. But AI is getting rid of them... :/ Or if AI has a narrowbody with long enough legs... But you'd probably need the A319LR or B73GER for this.

Quoting Behramjee (Thread starter):
Fly 3 weekly HYD-FRA-IAD using a B 77L.

I quite like this idea too. I think AI should try this one and put MXP on a separate flight.

Hurry up with the *A membership AI! This would help them with US-based pax too, since they are forever wedded to their FFP.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: SATexan
Posted 2009-10-08 23:22:19 and read 9113 times.



Quoting Ojas (Reply 11):
As of today BOM, DEL have reached to a mark where it is an airport one can transit conveniently and peacefully.

I went to BLR via BOM last year and could clearly see the Customs folks standing the conveyor belts in the baggage claim area openly harassing Indian students returning from the US for money. Has that changed?

Shuttling between the domestic and International terminals in BOM was a circus. Has that changed?

This past March I had a terrible time in DEL connecting from BLR (on IT) to the CO flight. Utter Chaos! I had to carry the bags from the IT domestic flight from BLR (even though the IT gate agent at BLR had checked the bags all the way through to DFW) and load them onto a bus and go to the International terminal where there were literally thousands of people outside the terminal. It took me 20 minutes to just get through the people and make it to the entrance of the terminal. Has anything changed since then?

I particularly dont find airports in India to be transit friendly at all. IMHO, Both BOM and DEL are horrible connecting points to South India. I dont understand why a true technology city like BLR is not even in AI's scheme of things. Without a true hub AI will have trouble feeding any flight outside of NYC. Same rule applies for IT and 9W. They need to develop hubs and invest in building their own terminals if thats possible.

Should UA start IAD-DEL, CO start EWR-BLR and AA start JFK/ORD - BOM its game over for AI in the USA market.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Ojas
Posted 2009-10-08 23:33:41 and read 9089 times.

Quoting SATexan (Reply 15):
I went to BLR via BOM last year and could clearly see the Customs folks standing the conveyor belts in the baggage claim area openly harassing Indian students returning from the US for money. Has that changed?

Shuttling between the domestic and International terminals in BOM was a circus. Has that changed?

I was directing towards international to international transfers, not domestic to international or vice versa; that too in relative terms.

An integrated terminal will be solving the issue.

With efficient international to international transfers SE asia/ Far east to Gulf; Africa to Far east connections can be established through BOM,DEL, which the Gulf carriers are doign as of now.

[Edited 2009-10-08 23:35:58 by ojas]

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Ojas
Posted 2009-10-08 23:38:08 and read 9076 times.



Quoting SATexan (Reply 15):
I dont understand why a true technology city like BLR is not even in AI's scheme of things. Without a true hub AI will have trouble feeding any flight outside of NYC.

Tried, tested and failed. By IT, 9W, AI. And please don;t give me that argument if foreign carriers can, why can't Indian carriers. IT's attempt to make a hub failed too.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Ojas
Posted 2009-10-08 23:45:17 and read 9064 times.



Quoting SATexan (Reply 15):
This past March I had a terrible time in DEL connecting from BLR (on IT) to the CO flight.

AI in this matter have things in place than 9W,IT. AI has international connectors both ways connecting to all its USA, LHR flight. They have such connector flights to BLR, MAA, HYD, COK, TRV, AMD from BOM and HYD, CCU from DEL which leave from the international terminals and you do your immigration and customs at your final destination in India. Basically, you will transit in BOM, DEL like transiting in DXB, LHR, FRA et al.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: SATexan
Posted 2009-10-09 00:31:43 and read 9022 times.



Quoting Ojas (Reply 16):
With efficient international to international transfers SE asia/ Far east to Gulf; Africa to Far east connections can be established through BOM,DEL, which the Gulf carriers are doign as of now.

The fundamental problem is that for a carrier thats been in existence for nearly eight decades AI has a very thin route network. It does not have a firm footprint in any part of the globe including India. Whatever route network it has in India is a result of the merger with Indian Airlines. With one destination in Africa and a handful in the Far East I am not sure how AI can connect Africa to Far East or connect Far East to the Gulf. They need to completely overhaul their route network if they want to be like the Gulf carriers or Singapore Airlines.

Besides, when the domestic to international connections themselves are so messed up I wouldnt be holding my breath on the efficient and seamless international to international transfers in BOM or DEL.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Lfutia
Posted 2009-10-09 00:57:34 and read 8995 times.



Quoting Behramjee (Thread starter):
5. Etihad Airways - money is no object for this airline and hence it could these 3 B 77Ls to launch AUH LAX nonstop on a daily basis with a code share with AA who has a hub at LAX!

Don't forget that EY now serves ORD and will soon be 6 weekly by the end of October!

Leo

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Hohd
Posted 2009-10-09 07:23:50 and read 8600 times.



Quoting SATexan (Reply 15):
particularly dont find airports in India to be transit friendly at all. IMHO, Both BOM and DEL are horrible connecting points to South India. I dont understand why a true technology city like BLR is not even in AI's scheme of things. Without a true hub AI will have trouble feeding any flight outside of NYC. Same rule applies for IT and 9W. They need to develop hubs and invest in building their own terminals if thats possible.

Should UA start IAD-DEL, CO start EWR-BLR and AA start JFK/ORD - BOM its game over for AI in the USA market.

I agree with you that the airports at DEL and BOM are not user friendly for connections. BLR, HYD, MAA and even CCU are more user friendly.

But the American carriers do not have good inflight service when compared to AI, 9W or IT or even EK or QR. Even with the advantages of hubs and frequent flyer alliances, CO or UA or AA will not succeed against the Indian carriers even if they introduce flights you mentioned above. CO has to constantly cut the fares to BOM to sustain the route.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Ojas
Posted 2009-10-09 07:25:30 and read 8590 times.



Quoting SATexan (Reply 19):
for nearly eight decades AI has a very thin route network.

For which the blame again goes to the AI Mgmt/ GOI who refused to expand in the 90s and not initiating the changes in the aviation infrastructure.

The GOI did not improve airport infrastructure, not willing to change its archaic policies, AI not ready to expand, and not letting private carriers do anything what they want to by making protectionist moves. All boils down to the useless govt and incompetent politicians.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Tharanga
Posted 2009-10-09 07:50:20 and read 8457 times.



Quoting Hohd (Reply 21):
But the American carriers do not have good inflight service when compared to AI, 9W or IT or even EK or QR.

I haven't tried the indian carriers long-haul in some time. Is the onboard product really better from AI, 9W than CO? I'm guessing the food might be, and maybe you'll get a newspaper and a piece of candy. Anything else? I'm talking Y, not 9W's F.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: TKfan
Posted 2009-10-09 08:09:54 and read 8352 times.



Quoting Behramjee (Thread starter):
2. Turkish Airlines - TK is embarking on a major long haul expansion spree and with leased 9W B 77Ws already in its fleet, it could do with 3 B 77Ls to open LAX before its newly ordered B 77Ws from Boeing arrive in 2-3 years. TK has already mentioned officially many times in the media recently that its next 2 USA destinations would be IAD with an A 332 and LAX with a B 77W so it could easily get a head start by using these 3 B 77Ls exclusively to fly daily IST LAX IST operations with perhaps a same plane extension to DXB. Then as the route matures and develops itself in the California market, it can within 2 years time increase capacity from a 240 seater B 77L to a 320 seater B 77W.

Great Analysis and some valid points concerning your thoughts about TKs eventual 77L venture, only problem is the 77L will be available in the third quarter of 2010, the same time when Turkish Airlines will take delivery of its own 77Ws.
Despite the overcapacity TK would have, IST has not the capacity either. Rwy 06/24 will be closed until 2011. I doubt TK is in a hurry to expand in 2010 under this circumstances?

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Blr380
Posted 2009-10-09 08:23:33 and read 8292 times.



Quoting Tharanga (Reply 23):

I have tried the Indian carriers long-haul (Wanted a change from my regular NW/KL trips). When it comes to service most Indian customers think mainly about food/drink. I have to agree all Indian carriers have much better food/drink service (main reason why a lot of people prefer 9W/AI). The seats/mood lighting is excellent - especially if u r trying AI non-stops.
However, I should say that 9W cabin crew aren't well prepared to handle situations. Just in my personal experience I've felt the crew to be highly inefficient from the process of boarding till answering specific technical questions. I've found CO/AA crew to be a lot more efficient and maintain their calm in situations. Once again, this is from my personal experience. Transit through BRU is highly chaotic - when 1000+ 9W passengers enter the transit area (passport control) at the same time.
Since I travel to BLR, I'd any day prefer flying one-stop Europe rather than transit through BOM/DEL.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Tharanga
Posted 2009-10-09 08:35:19 and read 8423 times.



Quoting Blr380 (Reply 25):
I have tried the Indian carriers long-haul (Wanted a change from my regular NW/KL trips). When it comes to service most Indian customers think mainly about food/drink.

That was my impression from before on AI - the food was pretty good, but the staff not as good with dealing with issues that might arise, from the moment you book the ticket.

I am open to giving AI a try again, though. if they've got modern cabins on new 777s, that'd be nice to experience.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Tharanga
Posted 2009-10-09 08:42:48 and read 8398 times.



Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 9):
Air India is bleeding money already...do they want to lose more? they need to settle down...they already serve USA well

Think of it like the UA 777 from LHR to BRU. Maybe a money-losing use of a 777, but does it lose less money than the alternative (for UA, losing a slot at LHR; for AI, parking all day at JFK)?

For once, this doesn't sound like a US expansion due to hubris and ego, but due to perceived practicality. That said, it still sounds dumb and impractical.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: SATexan
Posted 2009-10-09 10:40:03 and read 7897 times.



Quoting Blr380 (Reply 25):
Just in my personal experience I've felt the crew to be highly inefficient from the process of boarding till answering specific technical questions.

I agree. I've felt that with the FAs in both 9W and IT. Part of the problem in my opinion is that the FAs are very young and inexperienced. Further, It seems that the FAs loathe the idea of doing regular trash pickup runs. In both 9W and IT the FAs wait for a good hour before picking up the trash after a meal service. This is extremely inconvenient to those folks that need to use the rest room right after the meal service. In most flights the pre landing trash pickup isnt even done and so if you had a pre landing drink you are forced to stack up the trash in the seat back pocket in front of you. The meals on AI/9W or IT arent really any different from whats offered in CO or AA. IMHO, CO's in flight service is as good as AI, IT or 9W. Free booze is the only major benefit on the Indian carriers.

Now domestic flying is a different story. Its a pleasure to fly domestically in India  Smile

Quoting Hohd (Reply 21):
BLR, HYD, MAA and even CCU are more user friendly.

Indeed. AI should make one of the three airports as a hub in the near future. These airports have the infrastructure and a hub can be setup pretty quickly.

The population of Indians is expanding all over the world. AI should join the party soon before its too late!

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: SR 103
Posted 2009-10-09 12:10:41 and read 7549 times.



Quoting SATexan (Reply 28):
IMHO, CO's in flight service is as good as AI, IT or 9W.

Careful, your  stirthepot , especially with certain die hard AI fans on this board.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Ojas
Posted 2009-10-09 13:27:58 and read 7282 times.

http://www.business-standard.com/ind...s-to-washington-next-month/372835/

A suicide mission in progress.

It is confirmed effective Oct 25th AI will extend one of its JFK services to IAD.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Blr380
Posted 2009-10-09 13:41:47 and read 7203 times.



Quoting Ojas (Reply 30):

I wonder who in AI fuels these ideas/decisions......
The report says starting Oct 25th (just over 2 weeks) - isn't it too late an announcement? Not even sure which aircraft does the IAD rounds...I still don't see anything on their reservation system. Not sure - how they will fill up the seats in 2 weeks time (assuming they can start bookings ASAP) - especially if they r lookin for high yield passengers.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Airbazar
Posted 2009-10-09 13:42:45 and read 7194 times.



Quoting Ojas (Reply 4):
It is suicidal, no way it is going to be successful.

Lets not jump to conclusions here. Obviously they've done the homework and seen that there are passengers traveling between BOS/IAD and BOM/DEL respectively, on various other carriers and via other connecting cities. A lot would have to weigh in on this decisision: First and foremost are the flights from JFK full? And at what kind of yield? How much does it cost to park an airplane at JFK vs. the hop to BOS/IAD? Can they charge a premium for direct service on BOS-BOM and IAD-DEL? Technically a passenger wouldn't even have to leave the plane on the outbound leg, making this a faster and potentially more attractive option than anything else available from BOS/IAD.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Abrelosojos
Posted 2009-10-09 14:12:52 and read 7094 times.



Quoting Behramjee (Reply 3):
Honestly speaking, I dont recall reading your previous post concerning DEL-MXP being an unserved market but nevertheless good to know we think alike Smile



Quoting Ojas (Reply 4):
Jet Airways 9W To Europe? (by Airmale Jul 24 2009 in Civil Aviation)#1

= Thanks Ojas. Behramjee, I am surprised you did not recall ... especially given our basic start with the market sizing  Smile.

Saludos,
A.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Ojas
Posted 2009-10-09 15:01:26 and read 6967 times.



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 32):
First and foremost are the flights from JFK full? And at what kind of yield? How much does it cost to park an airplane at JFK vs. the hop to BOS/IAD? Can they charge a premium for direct service on BOS-BOM and IAD-DEL? Technically a passenger wouldn't even have to leave the plane on the outbound leg, making this a faster and potentially more attractive option than anything else available from BOS/IAD.

You are overlooking one fact AI will not be able to carry pax between JFK and IAD/BOS. Even hypothetically we assume 40% of the plane will head to IAD and 60% to JFK, Does it make any sense to send a 40% filled B777-200LR between IAD and JFK?

Flights to JFK go on good loads but the yields are not as good. Besides again you have the landing charges at IAD to count as well. Again this exercise requires another set of crew ... it is sheer stupidity.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Airbazar
Posted 2009-10-09 15:45:01 and read 6920 times.



Quoting Ojas (Reply 34):
You are overlooking one fact AI will not be able to carry pax between JFK and IAD/BOS.

Who cares, that's not the point. QF can't carry passengers between JFK and LAX either and they still fly the route. The point is to tap those 2 markets to either, fill seats that would otherwise go empty, or sell the same seat at a higer price.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Jfk777
Posted 2009-10-09 15:49:22 and read 6916 times.



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 32):
How much does it cost to park an airplane at JFK vs. the hop to BOS/IAD? Can

Many airline park airplanes at JFK most of the daylight hours, especially from the southern hemisphere and the middle east. IT can't be that much if the plane just sits there.

Air India would be wise to operate a 77L nonstop or via Europe to IAD, since UA is a Star alliance member with AI. Boston would make a fine destination fo AI, its gets lots of European airlines, the market there could be more challenging. Flying IAD & BOS as JFK add on is the wrong way to serve them.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Ojas
Posted 2009-10-09 16:35:57 and read 6851 times.



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 35):
QF can't carry passengers between JFK and LAX either and they still fly the route.

* Market size between SYD and LAX is to be taken into account in the first place. To go anywhere in the US, Folks from SYD don't have as many options as people have in India.

* FWIW SYD - LAX is not as competitive as BOM - JFK. QF can charge a premium to fly non stop to LAX, but AI cannot given it is competing with the airline of almost every country that falls between India and USA. Australia and USA have that geographic advantage of not having ANY major operational airport in between SYD and LAX/SFO other than AKL.

* SYD - JFK too have lesser conventional one stop options UA via SFO/LAX, VA, QF double daily EK, EY. BOM - IAD has BA, LH, AF, CO, AI (via JFK and FRA) , QR, VS, 9W, SV and DEL - IAD have BA, LH, AF, CO, AI ( FRA and JFK), QR, VS, 9W, SV, OS.

* Also the umpteen number of 2 stop options which do not entail a significant detour.

QF is in a much better position to operate SYD - LAX - JFK than AI operating BOM/DEL - JFK - IAD.

And basically why does AI need to take this step? What are alliances for? Forget about alliance an AI - UA partnership solves everything?

As mentioned above if AI wants to operate its own metal to IAD, it is best they do it through Europe, where they can at least exercise 5th freedom rights.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: ThegreatRDU
Posted 2009-10-09 18:07:23 and read 6775 times.



Quoting Tharanga (Reply 27):

For once, this doesn't sound like a US expansion due to hubris and ego,

That's exactly what to me it came across as....

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 32):
Obviously they've done the homework

If you say so....

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: WestWing
Posted 2009-10-09 18:17:34 and read 6771 times.

Maybe Indian Embassy staffers in DC lobbied for a convenient way for them to fly free in First Class to India.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: DTWLAX
Posted 2009-10-09 18:45:48 and read 6745 times.



Quoting Ojas (Reply 37):
SYD - JFK too have lesser conventional one stop options UA via SFO/LAX, VA, QF double daily EK, EY. BOM - IAD has BA, LH, AF, CO, AI (via JFK and FRA) , QR, VS, 9W, SV and DEL - IAD have BA, LH, AF, CO, AI ( FRA and JFK), QR, VS, 9W, SV, OS.

9W is not a one stop for BOM-IAD.
The other one stop option for BOM-IAD you missed is the NW(DL)/KL service.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: WestWing
Posted 2009-10-09 19:02:23 and read 6718 times.

If you include code-shares in the one-stop options IAD- BOM there is also UA via ZRH (codeshare w/ LX).
(Also you can buy a UA ticket to BOM/DEL with the europe to india leg on LH codeshare)..

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Ojas
Posted 2009-10-09 19:06:53 and read 6712 times.



Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 40):
9W is not a one stop for BOM-IAD.

It is a 9W/UA combo from BOM. You can fly via LHR.

Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 40):
The other one stop option for BOM-IAD you missed is the NW(DL)/KL service.

Thanks for that, I always seem to forget NW/DL/KL.

Quoting WestWing (Reply 39):
Maybe Indian Embassy staffers in DC lobbied for a convenient way for them to fly free in First Class to India.

LOL, so true.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Pellegrine
Posted 2009-10-09 19:14:04 and read 6698 times.



Quoting Ojas (Reply 30):
A suicide mission in progress.

It is confirmed effective Oct 25th AI will extend one of its JFK services to IAD.

Agreed. Terrible. What number of pax are they going to achieve on JFK-IAD-JFK? 30? 35? 30-35 people on a 77L does not make for a profitable flight...

Quoting Blr380 (Reply 31):
I wonder who in AI fuels these ideas/decisions......
The report says starting Oct 25th (just over 2 weeks) - isn't it too late an announcement? Not even sure which aircraft does the IAD rounds...I still don't see anything on their reservation system. Not sure - how they will fill up the seats in 2 weeks time (assuming they can start bookings ASAP) - especially if they r lookin for high yield passengers.

I agree it is dumbfounding...2 weeks...I would think 2 months notice would be better.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Airbazar
Posted 2009-10-09 20:05:12 and read 6641 times.



Quoting Ojas (Reply 37):
QF is in a much better position to operate SYD - LAX - JFK than AI operating BOM/DEL - JFK - IAD.

If you say so, I don't agree (you're obviously forgetting all the options via HKG, NRT, ICN, SIN). People easily forget those and think that the only options between Australia and East Coast US are via LAX/SFO. For example, SYD-NRT-JFK is only 1300nm longer than SYD-LAX-JFK, but I digress.
I don't have insight into actual O&D numbers from BOS/IAD to India. All I'm saying is if I were to be the holder of an Indian passport, flying BOS-JFK-BOM seems like a far better option than BOS-Europe-BOM where I'd have to get a transit visa and wait for hours for my connecting flight. On that alone AI could charge a premium over any European carrier.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Ojas
Posted 2009-10-09 20:20:45 and read 6632 times.



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 44):
BOS-Europe-BOM where I'd have to get a transit visa and wait for hours for my connecting flight. On that alone AI could charge a premium over any European carrier.

You don't transit visas as long as you are traveling via LHR, FRA .. not sure about CDG. But it is my understanding ever since the attack of Gulf carriers, No transit visas are required to travel between USA and India.

IAD - BOM via JFK is convenient from a passengers perspective, but not matter what happens people sulk at the fact of paying even $100 extra, forget the premium AI would be charge.

Read the opening post carefully, it is mentioned that to make it operationally feasible they have to charge fares as high has $2500 +taxes which NO ONE will pay even if it were a direct flight. The market size between India and IAD is approx 140 pax per day spread over various airlines.

And as I said it is a disaster operationally, financially.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 44):
For example, SYD-NRT-JFK is only 1300nm longer than SYD-LAX-JFK, but I digress

Just 1300nm more entails an extra 7 - 8 hours journey. Again the market SYD - LAX and BOM - IAD is very very different. SYD - USA routes are higher yielding routes which is why you see A380s and high premium passenger flow.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: DTWLAX
Posted 2009-10-09 23:22:57 and read 6546 times.



Quoting Ojas (Reply 42):
It is a 9W/UA combo from BOM. You can fly via LHR.

Oh yes,,, wasn't thinking about codeshares.

Quoting Ojas (Reply 45):
You don't transit visas as long as you are traveling via LHR, FRA .. not sure about CDG.

I think it is the other way around... you do not need transit visas via FRA but need it via CDG. Also if you hold certain US visas, you do not need transit visas at all even through LHR.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Behramjee
Posted 2009-10-10 05:37:35 and read 6449 times.

well now the AI press release says that it will be a daily same plane CCU DEL JFK IAD effective Dec 1st.

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/...lhi-kolkata-flight_100258601.html#

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Ojas
Posted 2009-10-10 06:43:19 and read 6387 times.



Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 46):
You don't transit visas as long as you are traveling via LHR, FRA .. not sure about CDG.

I think it is the other way around... you do not need transit visas via FRA but need it via CDG. Also if you hold certain US visas, you do not need transit visas at all even through LHR.

You are saying the same thing I said  wink 

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: WestWing
Posted 2009-10-10 11:37:12 and read 6241 times.

Have AI published the IAD-DEL-IAD business class fare? I'm curious what incentives would there be for a paying business class customer to pick AI over QR (other than the "same-plane-one-stop-service").

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Abrelosojos
Posted 2009-10-11 01:03:31 and read 6002 times.

Now on GDS and bookable:

AI 101 CCU 19:35 IAD 08:10 +1 EQV 2 1234567 23:05

Saludos,
A.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Airbazar
Posted 2009-10-12 13:26:42 and read 5540 times.

Quoting Ojas (Reply 45):
You don't transit visas as long as you are traveling via LHR, FRA .. not sure about CDG. But it is my understanding ever since the attack of Gulf carriers, No transit visas are required to travel between USA and India.

AFAIK, an Indian citizen does need an airport transit Visa for France, Germany, England. With the exception of AMS that pretty much covers all major EU hubs to India. However, I think that an Indian citizen with a valid US visa may be exempt but I'm not sure what type of US visa would qualify for this.
Quoting Ojas (Reply 45):
Just 1300nm more entails an extra 7 - 8 hours journey.

Uh? 1300nm is the equivalent of DEN-JFK which in a widebody is at most 3 hours. You can spend almost that just clearing immigration and customs at LAX  

[Edited 2009-10-12 13:46:05 by airbazar]

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Ojas
Posted 2009-10-12 13:46:45 and read 5481 times.



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 51):
Uh? 1300nm is the equivalent of DEN-JFK which in a widebody is at most 3 hours. You can spend almost that just clearing immigration and customs at LAX  

I added 7-8 hours including the minimum transit time at NRT and the travel time included.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 51):
You need a transit visa for any EU airport.

Here we are specifically talking about India to USA and if you have ANY valid US visa you are not required to have a transit visa at LHR or at FRA. As I said I'm not sure about CDG.

I'll pull in some links for that.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Airbazar
Posted 2009-10-12 18:44:43 and read 5459 times.



Quoting Ojas (Reply 52):
added 7-8 hours including the minimum transit time at NRT and the travel time included.

It is not 7-8 hours. You're adding a 5-6 hour transit time. You don't even have to clear immigration and customs at NRT like you do at LAX. Trust me, all East Asian carriers transport a not insignificant number of passengers between Australia and the US.
Here's another one: SQ does a tremendous amount of business transporting people between India and the US, especially to SFO/LAX. That I also know for a fact. And it doesn't get more out of the way to travel between India and the US than to go all the way back to SIN. That shows you that the shortest path is not the only route.

Quoting Ojas (Reply 52):
Here we are specifically talking about India to USA and if you have ANY valid US visa you are not required to have a transit visa at LHR or at FRA. As I said I'm not sure about CDG.

That could be the case. My understanding was that only US permanent residents would be exempt from the transit visa.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Alphaomega
Posted 2009-10-12 20:13:46 and read 5463 times.



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 35):

Quoting Ojas (Reply 34):
You are overlooking one fact AI will not be able to carry pax between JFK and IAD/BOS.

Who cares, that's not the point. QF can't carry passengers between JFK and LAX either and they still fly the route. The point is to tap those 2 markets to either, fill seats that would otherwise go empty, or sell the same seat at a higer price.

Good point - especially now as I'm sure DL has some good things going on for getting from JFK to SYD.

As I mentioned before, maybe the JFK-IAD sector is a test route...but I could be wrong. I don't see this route as a long term deal - AI supposedly had plans to fly direct to IAD as did Turkish and Air China until the economy went in the tank, so I'm sure AI will be direct to India at some point, just a matter of when.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Mk777
Posted 2009-10-13 05:00:23 and read 5448 times.



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 50):
AI 101 CCU 19:35 IAD 08:10 +1 EQV 2 1234567

What is the outgoing schedule???

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: WestWing
Posted 2009-10-13 09:01:18 and read 5433 times.

Will AI's DEL-JFK-IAD passengers complete US customs/immigration at JFK and then re-board for IAD?
What happens with QF's SYD-LAX-JFK flights, for example, do through passengers clear BCIS at LAX?

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Ojas
Posted 2009-10-13 09:54:54 and read 5434 times.



Quoting WestWing (Reply 56):
Will AI's DEL-JFK-IAD passengers complete US customs/immigration at JFK and then re-board for IAD?
What happens with QF's SYD-LAX-JFK flights, for example, do through passengers clear BCIS at LAX?

Yes you have to clear immigrations/customs at the first point of call in the USA, no matter what. That is the rule. Even QF follows the same procedure; passengers have to do customs/immigrations at LAX.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: WestWing
Posted 2009-10-20 10:29:41 and read 4640 times.

I just picked a random date after Dec 1st to compare the business class fares on Expedia.
For IAD-DEL-IAD departing 2nd Dec returning 14 Dec: AI $ 5105 , QR $ 4362 , KL $ 4096

So, it would appear AI is not price competitive in attracting high yield passengers.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Behramjee
Posted 2009-10-20 10:34:05 and read 4628 times.

that fare shown by Expedia is wrong...you can buy it for US$ 4425 + taxes.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Behramjee
Posted 2009-10-20 10:37:59 and read 4632 times.

For economy class, AI is the cheapest on this route i.e. US$ 970 all inclusive.

Its fare in Y class is $ 400 cheaper than the nearest one stop competitor i.e. VS, KLM and QR.

Thats too much of the difference so AI should consider increasing their own fare by $ 200 to generate better yield.

Now I just checked...J class IAD DEL IAD Jan 23rd till Feb 17th...AI is the cheapest on www.orbitz.com for US$ 3656 all inclusive which is more than $ 400 cheaper than KLM and $ 700 cheaper than QR.

[Edited 2009-10-20 10:42:20 by behramjee]

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: WestWing
Posted 2009-10-20 15:21:19 and read 4462 times.



Quoting Behramjee (Reply 59):
that fare shown by Expedia is wrong...you can buy it for US$ 4425 + taxes.

Out of curiosity, what do the taxes actually add up to? The Expedia stated price was 5105 all inclusive.

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: WestWing
Posted 2009-10-23 10:51:31 and read 4200 times.

"Washington" has been added to the list of cities on the pull-down menu on the AI website.
IAD-DEL-IAD in business class Dec02/Dec14 prices at (USD) $4460 + $410 (taxes) = $4870.
With IAD as departure, the destinations are only DEL and CCU (can't book IAD-BOM on AI website).

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: Mk777
Posted 2009-10-23 10:55:00 and read 4191 times.

IAD's official website mentions nothing about the new AI service as yet.

I am wondering where will the AI check-in counter be at IAD's main terminal, i am going to assume in zone 4 with UA, LH et al. Will they use the UA staff to check-in pax bound to DEL??? or is AI planning to hire some new ground staff??

Does anyone have any idea what gate AI will be using??? Will it be in concourse B or C/D??

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: WestWing
Posted 2009-10-23 11:09:46 and read 4183 times.



Quoting Mk777 (Reply 63):
IAD's official website mentions nothing about the new AI service as yet.

They do (now) here: http://www.mwaa.com/airport_services_3/air_service/new_airlines

Topic: RE: Air India Washington Analysis
Username: WestWing
Posted 2009-10-26 10:29:42 and read 3918 times.

Is there anyone here that can provide an estimate on how much it should cost AI to operate the tag-on to IAD for the month of December as compared to having the aircraft sit on the ground at JFK?

So this would include the fuel costs, aircrew costs, any depreciation to the airframe because of additional cycles and engine hours, ATC fees, fees for IAD landing, servicing, gate handling, check-in and gate-agent staffing, ...and anything else that I have forgotten.

I do not know how to estimate what it would cost AI per month - would it be $500K USD ? More ? Less ? Can anyone with industry experience give a reasonable estimate of this?

(There will also be some separate one-time non-recurring costs of advertising, branding the check-in counters and hiring ground staff in IAD, which would be useful to estimate also, but we can skip those for now).


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