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Topic: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: LY777
Posted 2009-11-07 10:49:14 and read 12720 times.

AF withdrew its 747 Classics (-200/300s) a few years ago now.
But which route did they use to fly?
Did MIA use to receive 742s?

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: Drerx7
Posted 2009-11-07 10:53:22 and read 12710 times.

IAH was a 747 classic before the 340s and 777s came online.

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: FlySSC
Posted 2009-11-07 11:40:07 and read 12610 times.

The B747 Classic (-100, -200) flew ALL AF long haul routes ...

They progressively replaced the B707 from 1973 and were the only AF long haul airliner, except a few A300 that were used to DKR and the Middle East, and of course Concorde.

The -300 were inherited from UTA and after a short tansition period after AF & UT merged, they were used only from PAR to PTP, FDF, SXM, SDQ.

[Edited 2009-11-07 11:44:42]

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: Goldorak
Posted 2009-11-07 11:41:07 and read 12611 times.

I flew the AF B742 to/from ORD, CVG, JFK, IAD. The B743 was in a high density configuration (COI routes) to serve PTP, FDF, RUN with also a daily rotation to AJA during the summer season. That's what I remember at least !

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: FlySSC
Posted 2009-11-07 12:18:39 and read 12514 times.



Quoting Goldorak (Reply 3):
The B743 was in a high density configuration (COI routes) to serve PTP, FDF, RUN

The B743 were not used to RUN. Only to the Carribean. They didn't have enough range to fly nonstop RUN-ORY fully loaded.
RUN, MRU, SEZ were served with B742.

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: DAL763ER
Posted 2009-11-07 12:25:59 and read 12495 times.

FlySSC, would you happen to know by any chance what aircraft I flew on CDG-MIA-CDG in July 2000? I mean, I remember it was a 747, but which series? the outbound was a couple of days after the 4th of July and the inbound was a couple of days before Concorde. These two were my very first long haul flights at age 8 and a half Smile

Thanks

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: FlySSC
Posted 2009-11-07 13:31:15 and read 12395 times.



Quoting DAL763ER (Reply 5):
FlySSC, would you happen to know by any chance what aircraft I flew on CDG-MIA-CDG in July 2000?

You flew a B747-200, as AF retired from service its last B747-100 at the end of 1999.

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
AF withdrew its 747 Classics (-200/300s) a few years ago now.
But which route did they use to fly?
Did MIA use to receive 742s?

When AF retired its last B747 Classic from service, in December 2007, I opened a threat on the History of the B747 Classic with Air France.

Here it is :

"Following the retirement of all its B747 "Classic" (-200/-300) from passenger services last year (The last one was F-BTDH on Sept.1st 2006), Air France was still operating 3 B747-200F : F-GCBG, F-GCBL, F-GCBM.

On December 20th 2007, for the last time, 2 B747-200 Cargo under Air France livery landed at CDG, the first one coming from NBO, the second one from LOS.

Flashback :

On September 19th 1966, Air France is placing an order for 4 B747-100

On April 9th 1970, Air France is among the very first airline in the world to receive its first brand new Boeing 747-100, F-BPVA.


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The aircraft is landing at 9:14AM at Orly Airport, coming from Seattle after a nonstop flight of 9h05mn.
F-BVFB is delivered on April 15th and F-BVFC on May 13th.

They are equipped with 350 seats and a "Smoking Bar" at the upper deck.

On June 3rd 1970, F-BPVA operates the first Air France B747 commercial flight ORY-JFK.

The 4th aircraft, F-BPVD, is delivered on July 14th 1970.

Starting November 1970, the B747 is introduced on ORY-PTP with 3 x Weekly flights.

In 1972, the B747 fleet is reaching 8 aircraft : F-BPVA, VB, VC, VD, VE, VF, VG, VH.

On April 17th 1972, AF is authorized to land in SGN. The B747 is introduced on the line ORY-THR-BOM-BKK-SGN

November 19th 1972, the B747 is used on the Paris - Reunion Island route (including enroute stops at NCE, JED, NBO, JIB, TNR, according to the day they operate).

3 more B747-100 are delivered in 1973 :
F-BPVK & F-BPVJ in February. N28888 in Mars. This last one was supposed to become F-BPVI but had a short life, as it was destroyed by fire on the ground at Bombay on June 12th 1975.

On September 29th 1974, the first B747 Cargo, F-BPVO, is delivered. It is called "Super Pelican" as a reference to the B707-320C Pelicans. It is used from Oct. 1974 on the Paris-Montreal-US East Coat route.


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Progressively, the B747 are replacing the B707 on the South American and South East Asian AF network.

Following the oil crises in 1975, Air France removes the Bar from the upper deck and replaces it with additional seats...
The new configuration of the B747 becomes 16 First / 68 Business / 276 Economy.

The B747 are now deployed on the following routes :

Paris-New York
Paris-Boston
Paris-Montreal-Chicago
Paris-Fort de France / Pointe a Pitre
Paris-Anchorage-Tokyo
Paris-Tel Aviv-Tehran-Bombay-Bangkok-Saigon
Paris-Tehran-Delhi-Bombay-Bangkok-Hong-kong-Manila-Tokyo

On July 1st 1975, Air France operates the Paris-Reunion island route with only 1 stop at NBO.

On May 20th 1976, the B747 is replacing the B707 on the rout Paris-Toronto-Los Angeles.
The new Air France livery is applied on the B747 :


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On October 12th 1976, Air France receives its second B747 Cargo, the first aircraft with the new GE CF6-5E2 engines and an increased MTOW to 371,95 tons.

Satisfied by the performances of its B747, Air France in pacing an order for 10 B747-200 Combi, powered by the GE CF6-5E2 engines. They are the perfect replacement for the B707 on the long distances. Their range will allow Air France to offer nonstop B747 flights from Paris to Caracas, Los Angeles or Bombay.

Air France is also launching what becomes, at that time, the longest nonstop flight : PARIS - RIO DE JANEIRO.

Air France receives also its First 2 B747-200 ALL PAX, configured with 24 First/91 Business / 226 Economy, delivered in April 1979 and Feb. 1980.

They are assigned on the Paris-Moscow-Tokyo route, and later on the Paris-Los Angeles-Papeete.

On March 31st 1977, Air France opens a Paris-Cayenne-Manaus-Lima with a B747.

Starting May 1st 1977, Air France operates Paris - Bogota twice a week.

Starting Avril 2nd 1978, Los Angeles and Chicago are served nonstop from Paris.

Starting April 27th 1979, the B747 is used on the Paris-Dakar-Buenos Aires-Santiago de Chile route.

Starting April 6th 1980, the B747 is replacing the B707 on the Paris-Beijing route (the flight is routing Paris-Karachi-Delhi-Beijing).

On Dec.13th 1980, AF opens MLH-LYS-PTP/FDF with a B747-100.

From 1977 to 1985, the B747-200 Combi allows Air France to increase frequencies on the existing routes but also to open new ones in Central Africa, South America (CCS and GIG nonstop), and North America : Miami, Boston, Washington, Chicago, Los Angeles, Montreal, Toronto, Houston-Mexico, Boston-Philadelphia.

Starting 1985, Air France buys 3 more B747-200-Combi (F-GCBH, BI, BJ) & 3 B747-200F (F-GCBK, BL, BM).

On Dec.2nd 1985, F-GCBC, a B747-200 Combi is lost : it veered off the runway on landing, crossed a ditch and collided with a concrete ramp at Rio de Janeiro-Galeao International Airport, Brazil. 0 fatalities / 273 on board.


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Following an agreement signed with the Soviet Union, Air France operates the first Paris-Tokyo nonstop flight on April 4th 1986.

December 3rd 1986 : Air France is using the B747 on Paris - Saint Martin/Marteen - Pointe a Pitre - Paris

March 1988 : Air France is leasing for 1 year a B747-100 (F-BPVD) to Air Inter. The aircraft is used by the French domestic airline on its biggest routes from Orly to Marseille/Toulouse/Bordeaux/Nice. Following this experience, Air Inter wants to buy from JAL 3 second hand B747SR, but finally will add more A300 to its fleet and increase frequencies.

May 4th 1989 : Air France re-opens Tokyo-Papeete (1 x Weekly)

Feb.26th 1990 : the 9th B747-200F is delivered to AF

In 1990, Air France is buying the other French airline UTA.
UTA is operating a fleet of 8 747 :

2 B747-300 : F-GETA, F-GETB
2 B747-200 SUD : F-BTDG, F-BTDH
2 B747-200F : F-GBOX, F-GPAN.
1 B747-400 : F-GEXA
1 B747-300 leased on a short term (F-GFUK) pending the delivery of the second B744 F-GEXB.

F-GPAN is used by UTA for the car manufacturer "Peugeot" and operating an "air bridge" between Lyon and Kano (Nigeria) where Peugeot had an important factory.

They are all integrated to the Air France fleet (except F-GFUK, returned to lessor).
The 4 B747-300 (actually 2 B743 2 B742-SUD) receive a new high density configuration and are used on the Caribbean network. Starting 2001, they are based at ORY and operate exclusively to/from PTP and FDF (and domestic flights to NCE and AJA during the summer season).

In 1992/1993, the retirement of the first B747-100 begins. 6 Aircraft are retired from service (F-BPVA, VC, VD, VK, VN, VQ).
F-BPVB is leased to CORSAIR and F-PBVG is used as a Charter for the summer season 1994.

Only 8 B747-100 remain in service, half of them on the Caribbean network. During the summer 1993, F-BPVL & F-BPVM are configured in a singe 499 Y Class and operate cheap Charter flights on behalf of AF's Tour Operator "Jet Tour" under the name of "Jumbo".


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The arrival of the first A340 signs the beginning of the end for the B747-200 Combi. They are converted into full freighters, or into full PAX versions to replace the remaining old B747-100.

On September 12th 1993, Air France Cargo opens a CDG-TPE flight under the name of "Air France Asie", for political reasons. The flight is routing CDG-SEL-TPE / TPE-BKK-DXB-CDG.


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A passenger flight CDG-TPE is also opened , under the same name, by an A340-200 but will be closed a year after.

Summer 1997 : Air France Cargo receives its 12th B747-200 Freighter. Entebbe, Cotonou, Libreville are added to the cargo network.

On March 5th 1999, the B747 Cargo F-GPAN is lost in a crash landing at MAA.

The last B747-100 F-BPVJ is retired from service at the end of 1999 and donated to the Paris-le Bourget Air & Space Museum



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Following the 9/11 terrorist attack, AF decides :

- The retirement of 1 B747-00 Cargo.
- The retirement of 4 B747-200 PAX (summer 2002)

Only the 4 B747-300 "Classic" based at ORY remain in service from Feb.12th 2004 , after the last B747-200 PAX, F-GCBA is retired following its last RUN-ORY flight.

March 2006 : Air France receives its first Orly-based B777-300ER. They are replacing the B747-300 on the Caribbean network from ORY.

Following the Israeli aggression on Lebanon during the summer 2006, the service of the last 2 B747-300 F-BTDG & DH is extended until the end of the summer. They are used for sanitary evacuation of people from Lebanon, operating several flight between Cyprus and France.

F-BTDH is finally retired on September 1st 2006.

The B747-400ERF are progressively replacing the B747-200 Cargo.
On May 18th 2005, Air France is placing an order for 8 B777-200LRF, becoming the launch company of this type, after being also the launch company for the B777-300ER. They will be delivered starting September 2008.

Between this April 9th 1970 and Dec.20th 2007, Air France has operated a total of 47 Boeing 747 -100/-200/-300, Pax versions, -Combi and Freighters.

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: TYCOON
Posted 2009-11-07 14:00:12 and read 12349 times.

AF was operating the B747s to Los Angeles earlier than 1976. I flew the 742 on AF from LAX-Montreal-ORY roundtrip in 1973. Family members flew the a similar routing on the 742s in 1975.

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2009-11-07 15:12:00 and read 12238 times.



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 6):
On April 9th 1970, Air France is among the very first airline in the world to receive its first brand new Boeing 747-100, F-BPVA.

AF was the 6th carrier to order the 741 (after Pan Am, JAL, Lufthansa, BOAC, TWA) and the 4th carrier to take delivery (after Pan Am, TWA, Lufthansa).

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: Sankaps
Posted 2009-11-07 15:53:11 and read 12158 times.



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 6):
On March 5th 1999, the B747 Cargo F-GPAN is lost in a crash landing at MAA.

Excellent post! Besides the 2 747s AF lost in BOM (1975) and in MAA (1999), didn't they also have one written off in DEL in the late 80s or early 90s?

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: OB1504
Posted 2009-11-07 16:16:53 and read 12111 times.



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 6):
You flew a B747-200, as AF retired from service its last B747-100 at the end of 1999.

Hadn't the 744 started to appear more and more regularly on the CDG-MIA route by 2000?

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: LY777
Posted 2009-11-07 16:19:49 and read 12107 times.



Quoting DAL763ER (Reply 5):
FlySSC, would you happen to know by any chance what aircraft I flew on CDG-MIA-CDG in July 2000? I mean, I remember it was a 747, but which series?

I flew CDG-MIA-CDG in Aug 2001, and it was a 744

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2009-11-07 16:35:27 and read 12084 times.



Quoting Sankaps (Reply 9):
Quoting FlySSC (Reply 6):
On March 5th 1999, the B747 Cargo F-GPAN is lost in a crash landing at MAA.

Excellent post! Besides the 2 747s AF lost in BOM (1975) and in MAA (1999), didn't they also have one written off in DEL in the late 80s or early 90s?

If you're referring to this 1988 accident, it was repaired.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19880724-0

AF also wrote off a 742 at GIG in 1985.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19851202-0

AF also had a couple of close calls involving 747s.

Bomb explosion on 742 after departure from KHI in 1984.
Air France Incident At KHI In The 80's (by Airmale Feb 9 2001 in Civil Aviation)

744 overrun into the water at PPT in 1993. Aircraft involved was AF's first 744.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19930912-1





(Larger versions of those photos, and a couple of others, at the end of the official accident report (in French)...link at bottom of Aviation-Safety.net summary above.)

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: Aircellist
Posted 2009-11-07 16:59:03 and read 12048 times.

FlySSC, your historical knowledge is impressive!

Two questions, if you have a few moments to spare:

1- My very first trip was from Montréal to Paris, and then to Nice on AF, back to Paris in car and back to Montréal, still on AF. That was somewhere during summer 1970. Obviously, I was too young to remember the planes (not yet two years old...). Is it possible that I flew in 747 and Caravelle?

2- My second trip, summer 1971, was from Montréal to New York, then on to Guadeloupe. I came back through... I don't know where in the Carribean, and then to Montréal. Is it possible that I took an AF 707 from JFK to Guadeloupe?

As a subsidiary question, my father believes we took a Comet from Guadeloupe to that unknown airport, before coming back to Montréal on AC's DC8. Would you have any information about the possibility of that?

Thanks a lot in advance!

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: FlySSC
Posted 2009-11-08 01:59:05 and read 10285 times.



Quoting OB1504 (Reply 10):
Hadn't the 744 started to appear more and more regularly on the CDG-MIA route by 2000?



Quoting LY777 (Reply 11):
I flew CDG-MIA-CDG in Aug 2001, and it was a 744

In 2001, AF was indeed using a B744 on the CDG-MIA route. AF even had second flight operated 4 x Weekly with an A340 that was axed after 9/11.

2000 was the year AF switched from B742 to B744 so mabe you are right ...

Quoting Aircellist (Reply 13):
My very first trip was from Montréal to Paris, and then to Nice on AF, back to Paris in car and back to Montréal, still on AF. That was somewhere during summer 1970. Obviously, I was too young to remember the planes (not yet two years old...). Is it possible that I flew in 747 and Caravelle?

Definatly a Caravelle on Paris-Nice
Most probably a B747-100 on Paris-Montreal.
Montreal was one of the first destinations for AF B741 back in 1970, YUL being also an enroute stop on the Paris-LAX route.

Quoting Aircellist (Reply 13):
My second trip, summer 1971, was from Montréal to New York, then on to Guadeloupe. I came back through... I don't know where in the Carribean, and then to Montréal. Is it possible that I took an AF 707 from JFK to Guadeloupe?

Until 1973, AF had a Caravelle, based in PTP for its Carribean network but I don't know if they were used also up to JFK ... If not, you probably flew a B707.

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: LY777
Posted 2009-11-08 02:11:12 and read 10226 times.



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 14):
AF even had second flight operated 4 x Weekly with an A340 that was axed after 9/11.

I indeed flew CDG-MIA-CDG in 1995 with AF on an A343 both ways. Did AF use only A343s on that route at that time?

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: Sankaps
Posted 2009-11-08 02:12:00 and read 10226 times.



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
If you're referring to this 1988 accident, it was repaired.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19880724-0

AF also wrote off a 742 at GIG in 1985.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19851202-0

AF also had a couple of close calls involving 747s.

Bomb explosion on 742 after departure from KHI in 1984.
Air France Incident At KHI In The 80's (by Airmale Feb 9 2001 in Civil Aviation)

744 overrun into the water at PPT in 1993. Aircraft involved was AF's first 744.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/...912-1

Wow, that's a lot of accidents and major incidents on the 747 for one airline (even excluding the KHI bomb incident). Incidentally I saw the 747 lying damaged at one end of the runway, off to the side, several weeks after the DEL accident. AF markings had been removed, IIRC. I thought it was being written off, surprised to hear it was repaired.

Wonder if the # of AF 747 acciedents / incidents is the most of any 747 operator?

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: FlySSC
Posted 2009-11-08 02:33:42 and read 10115 times.



Quoting Sankaps (Reply 16):
Wonder if the # of AF 747 accidents / incidents is the most of any 747 operator?

AF was a big 747 operator, the incident rate is proportional to the number of aircraft operated ...
Pan AM had a lot too.

The first Crash of a B747 was Lufthansa B741 D-ABYB at NBO in Nov. 1974.

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: Sankaps
Posted 2009-11-08 04:32:24 and read 9639 times.



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 17):
AF was a big 747 operator, the incident rate is proportional to the number of aircraft operated ...
Pan AM had a lot too.

That is what I am wondering... BOAC/BA, SQ, JAL, KLM, NWA, QF etc were also big 747 operators, but it does not seem they had so many major accidents / incidents. Even LH -- I think Nairobi was their only major event? For KLM, only Tenerife?

Other than AF, perhaps AI (Air India) has a surprisingly high number of 747 events, at a rate disproportionate to their fleet size (though one accident was the result of terrorism).

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: Airlittoralguy
Posted 2009-11-08 04:47:16 and read 9578 times.



Quoting Sankaps (Reply 16):
Quoting FlySSC (Reply 14):AF even had second flight operated 4 x Weekly with an A340 that was axed after 9/11.
I indeed flew CDG-MIA-CDG in 1995 with AF on an A343 both ways. Did AF use only A343s on that route at that time?

Does someone has the schedule for this flight ( time of departure ex CDG and Miami as well as flight numbers )

Quoting TYCOON (Reply 7):
A passenger flight CDG-TPE is also opened , under the same name, by an A340-200 but will be closed a year after.

Same question. If someone has the schedule for this flight, I am interested.


Thanks for your help

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: FlySSC
Posted 2009-11-08 05:39:47 and read 9300 times.



Quoting Sankaps (Reply 18):
That is what I am wondering... BOAC/BA, SQ, JAL, KLM, NWA, QF etc were also big 747 operators, but it does not seem they had so many major accidents / incidents. Even LH -- I think Nairobi was their only major event? For KLM, only Tenerife?

Other than AF, perhaps AI (Air India) has a surprisingly high number of 747 events, at a rate disproportionate to their fleet size (though one accident was the result of terrorism).

AF had two major incidents/accidents with its B747 Classics : the loss of F-GCBC at GIG (Dec 1985) and the loss of the Cargo F-GPAN at MAA, both caused by technical failure (main gear at GIG, nose wheel at MAA).

At BOM in 1975, the incident itself was minor ( two tires burst, resulting in an aborted ake off). The incapacity of the fire services of the Airport to deploy the rescue team rapidly caused the loss of the airframe.

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2009-11-08 14:29:26 and read 7973 times.



Quoting Sankaps (Reply 18):
Other than AF, perhaps AI (Air India) has a surprisingly high number of 747 events, at a rate disproportionate to their fleet size (though one accident was the result of terrorism).

KE has written off 5 747s. I don't think any other carrier matches that. Pan Am wrote off 4, of which 2 involved terrorism.

KE's 747 hull losses:

1980 - 742 crashed on landing and caught fire at SEL (14 fatalities).
1983 - 742 shot down by Soviet fighters after going off course between ANC and SEL (269 fatalities).
1997 - 743 struck terraiin approaching GUM (228 fatalities).
1998 - 744 bounced and skidded off runway landing at SEL (no fatalities).
1999 - 742 freighter crashed soon after takoff from STN (4 fatalities).

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: FlySSC
Posted 2009-11-08 22:52:13 and read 7796 times.



Quoting Airlittoralguy (Reply 19):
Does someone has the schedule for this flight ( time of departure ex CDG and Miami as well as flight numbers )

AF CDG-MIA-CDG was initially AF090/AF091 for the Daily B747
The second flight was AF094/AF095. Don't remember excately the schedule but I think it was leaving CDG around 13h30.

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: Arcano
Posted 2009-11-09 18:31:59 and read 7519 times.

I remember going to the airport as a kid, and some relatives took a AF 742 to Paris. Pretty sure the whole flight was SCL-EZE-MDV-GRU-GIG-CDG... is that possible? That flight really took that many stops?

A photo of the ocation, BTW:


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Jorge Cespedes
MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Jorge Cespedes



Regards, )(

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: N62NA
Posted 2009-11-09 18:45:16 and read 7503 times.

The classic 747 was used when AF first started serving EWR. I imagine that was sometime back in the 1990s.

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: Aircellist
Posted 2009-11-10 19:07:34 and read 7263 times.

FlySSC, "Merci beaucoup!"

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: Cedars747
Posted 2009-11-10 23:20:07 and read 7280 times.



Quoting Arcano (Reply 23):
SCL-EZE-MDV-GRU-GIG-CDG...

I flew this one many times ,CDG-RIO-SAO-MVD-BUE.I am not sure if it was EZE-MVD, I think it was non stop to SAO
I remember that some times it was via Recife  scratchchin 

Alex!!!

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: Jolau1701
Posted 2009-11-11 00:11:21 and read 7253 times.

AF often swaps between A340s, 747-400s, and 777s for thier CDG-SFO-CDG routes. Did they ever use 747-200?

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: FlySSC
Posted 2009-11-11 01:23:46 and read 7221 times.



Quoting Jolau1701 (Reply 27):
AF often swaps between A340s, 747-400s, and 777s for thier CDG-SFO-CDG routes. Did they ever use 747-200?

AF used the B747-200 on CDG-SFO-CDG until the winter program 1999/2000.

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/1/3/1/0029131.jpg

Quoting Arcano (Reply 23):
I remember going to the airport as a kid, and some relatives took a AF 742 to Paris. Pretty sure the whole flight was SCL-EZE-MDV-GRU-GIG-CDG... is that possible? That flight really took that many stops?



Quoting Cedars747 (Reply 26):
I flew this one many times ,CDG-RIO-SAO-MVD-BUE.I am not sure if it was EZE-MVD, I think it was non stop to SAO

AF was also routing its flights to/from SCL that way :

SCL-UIO-CCS-PTP-ORY

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: Cedars747
Posted 2009-11-11 01:45:25 and read 7191 times.



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 28):

Salut Pedro  Wink

I also flew CDG-BEY onboard B747 don't remember the exact date and AF CDG-REC-GIG-EZE is it possible ?

Alex!!!

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: FlySSC
Posted 2009-11-11 02:15:38 and read 7175 times.



Quoting Cedars747 (Reply 29):
I also flew CDG-BEY onboard B747 don't remember the exact date

AF sent the B742 for additional flights to BEY until 2002, then a B743 during the summer 2002 and 2003, then the B744 for the summer 2004 & 2005.


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Photo © Vatche Mitilian

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: Cedars747
Posted 2009-11-11 03:00:05 and read 7137 times.



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 30):
AF sent the B742 for additional flights to BEY until 2002,

That's it ! I flew on one of those.I also remember once I flew from GIG to NCE nonstop onboard an AF B747

Alex!!!

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: Aeri28
Posted 2009-11-11 11:35:39 and read 7003 times.

I first flew an AF 747 200 in the summer of 1984 from JFK to Paris. I believe at that time they only 2 flights per day. One at 7 pm , the other at 9 pm. I was flying non rev (father worked for another carrier) and did not get on the 7pm flight, but was placed in their new "Le Club" business class on the 9 pm flight. I still have a few momentos from the flight (and literally just threw the unopened jar of Mousse de Poisson out 5 years ago as someone said it may combust on it s own lol.)

I last flew a -200 on their LAX to PPT route in May of 1998. They had been flying the -400 prior years but for some reason switched to a 200 at that period. The following year when I went again it was a 400.

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: FoxBravo
Posted 2009-11-11 13:11:45 and read 6936 times.

One interesting route operated by 747-100 was the JFK-NCE nonstop (AF028/029), which I flew in June of 1990. Unfortunately that route didn't last long, and it was a long time before AF returned to that market via the codeshare with DL.

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2009-11-11 18:47:10 and read 6819 times.

AF operated the following long-haul routes with 747 during 1985/1986:


............................Route.....................................................Frequency and aircraft
Paris CDG - Chicago.................................................................2x 74M 1x 747
Paris CDG - Houston - Mexico City............................................3x 74M 1x 747
Paris CDG - Los Angeles..........................................................5x 74M
Paris CDG - Montreal - Toronto..................................................4x 74M 1x 747
Paris CDG - New York JFK........................................................7x 747
Paris CDG - New York JFK - Washington....................................3x 747
Paris CDG - Cayenne - Quito - Lima...........................................1x 747
Paris CDG - Fort de France........................................................1x 747
Paris CDG - Fort de France - Caracas - Bogota............................1x 74M
Paris CDG - PTP-CCS-BOG-LIM-BOG-CCS-CDG.........................1x 74M
Paris CDG - Pointe-a-Pitre - Port-au-Prince..................................1x 747
Paris CDG - REC-GIG-EZE-SCL-EZE-MVD-GIG-CDG...................1x 747
Paris CDG - REC-GIG-MVD-EZE-SCL-EZE-GIG-CDG...................74M
Paris CDG - Recife - Rio de Janeiro - Sao Paulo..........................1x 74M
Paris CDG - GIG-EZE-SCL.........................................................1x 74M
Paris Orly - Fort de France.........................................................1x 747
Paris Orly - Fort de France - Cayenne.........................................1x 747
Paris Orly - Fort de France - Pointe-a-Pitre - Paris CDG................1x 747
Paris Orly - Fore de France - Pointe-a-Pitre - Paris Orly................1x 747
Paris Orly - Pointe-a-Pitre - Fort de France - Paris Orly.................1x 747
Paris Orly - Pointe-a-Pitre - Fort de France - Bordeaux - Lyon........1x 747
Lyon - Bordeaux - PTP - Fort de France - Marseille - Mulhouse......1x 747
Mulhouse - Marseille - FDF - Pointe-a-Pitre - Paris Orly.................1x 747
Paris CDG - Cairo - Jeddah.........................................................1x 747
Paris CDG - Kuwait - Dubai - Abu Dhabi - Kuwait - Paris CDG........1x 74M
Paris CDG - Larnaca - Tehran - Paris CDG...................................1x 74M
Paris CDG - Anchorage - Tokyo - Osaka......................................3x 747 1x 74M
Paris CDG - Anchorage - Tokyo - Seoul.......................................2x 74M
Paris CDG - Bombay - Bangkok - Hong Kong...............................2x 747 1x 74M
Paris CDG - Delhi - Beijing..........................................................1x 747
Paris CDG - Dhahran - Delhi - Bangkok - Manila...........................1x 747
Paris CDG - Dhahran - Karachi - Bangkok - Manila........................1x 74M
Paris CDG - Karachi - Delhi - Bangkok - Ho Chi Minh....................1x 74M
Paris CDG - Karachi - Delhi - Beijing............................................1x 74M
Paris CDG - Moscow - Tokyo......................................................1x 74M
Paris CDG - Jeddah - Djibouti......................................................1x 74M
Paris CDG - Jeddah - Seychelle - Reunion....................................1x 747
Paris CDG - Nairobi - Kigali - Bujumbura.......................................2x 74M
Paris CDG - Nairobi - Reunion - Mauritius.....................................1x 747
Paris Orly - Djibouti - Reunion - Mauritius.....................................1x 747
Paris Orly - Djibouti - Seychelles - Reunion - Mauritius..................1x 747
Paris Orly - Djibouti - Seychelles - Reunion..................................1x 747
Paris Orly - Djibouti - Seychelles - Reunion - Mauritius..................1x 747
Paris Orly - Jeddah - Antananarivo - Reunion................................1x 74M
Paris Orly - Lyon - Nairobi - Reunion - Mauritius............................1x 747
Paris Orly - Marseille - Djibouti - Reunion......................................1x 747
Paris Orly - Marseille - Nairobi - Reunion - Mauritius......................1x 747


Regards.

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: OB1504
Posted 2009-11-11 18:56:16 and read 6804 times.



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 14):
AF even had second flight operated 4 x Weekly with an A340 that was axed after 9/11.

I remember taking that flight back from CDG in January 2002. If I recall correctly, the late arrival time (around midnight) meant that the customs and immigrations facilities at Concourse B were closed, so we had to take a seemingly endless trek from Concourse A to the international arrivals hall in Concourse E.

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 22):
AF CDG-MIA-CDG was initially AF090/AF091 for the Daily B747
The second flight was AF094/AF095. Don't remember excately the schedule but I think it was leaving CDG around 13h30.

This would explain the current disparity in the flight numbers with AF690/695. That always puzzled me.

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: Ncelhr
Posted 2009-11-12 14:40:16 and read 6603 times.



Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 33):
One interesting route operated by 747-100 was the JFK-NCE nonstop (AF028/029), which I flew in June of 1990. Unfortunately that route didn't last long, and it was a long time before AF returned to that market via the codeshare with DL.

Not quite - the route was then operated by Pan Am. When Pan Am folded, Delta took the route over.

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: FoxBravo
Posted 2009-11-13 09:22:07 and read 6466 times.



Quoting Ncelhr (Reply 36):
Not quite - the route was then operated by Pan Am. When Pan Am folded, Delta took the route over.

No, this was entirely separate from and in addition to Pan Am, who was also flying the route at that time (I believe with an A310). Believe me, I have a photo of myself boarding the AF 747 (via airstairs) at NCE!

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: Gr8Circle
Posted 2009-11-13 09:30:38 and read 6452 times.



Quoting Sankaps (Reply 16):
Wow, that's a lot of accidents and major incidents on the 747 for one airline (even excluding the KHI bomb incident). Incidentally I saw the 747 lying damaged at one end of the runway, off to the side, several weeks after the DEL accident. AF markings had been removed, IIRC. I thought it was being written off, surprised to hear it was repaired



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 20):
At BOM in 1975, the incident itself was minor ( two tires burst, resulting in an aborted ake off). The incapacity of the fire services of the Airport to deploy the rescue team rapidly caused the loss of the airframe.

Don't remember the actual reason for loss of airframe, but I do recall seeing the burnt out 747 sitting on the runway....I was quite small then, and it looked scary.....

I recall AF probably used to fly the 747-100 too (?), to BOM, in the early 70's....they used to make a very different sound from the AI 747-200's which had newly arrived in the
AI fleet.....used to sound like a huge pneaumatic drill flying overhead....

Some time in 1974, I personally witnessed, as a kid, an AF 747 about to land at the smaller Juhu airport in Mumbai.....few weeks earlier, a JAL DC-8 had mistakenly landed at that airport and ended up in a ditch at the end of the r/way....the AF pilot saw the JAL plane on the ground and almost made the same mistake.....the ditch wouldn't have stopped the 747...it would have ended up inside one of the buildings across the road beyond the r/way (S.V. Road, for those familiar with the city)......

Quoting Sankaps (Reply 18):
Other than AF, perhaps AI (Air India) has a surprisingly high number of 747 events, at a rate disproportionate to their fleet size (though one accident was the result of terrorism).

AI lost 3 747-200's....first was in 1978, off the coast of BOM, second was in 1985, over the Atlantic (result of a terrorist bomb on board) and the third was at DEL in the early 90's I think.....but the last one at DEL was only a wing and engine on fire, no casualties....as the plane was already 20 years old, it was scrapped.....

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: FlySSC
Posted 2009-11-13 11:42:41 and read 6403 times.



Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 38):
I recall AF probably used to fly the 747-100 too (?), to BOM, in the early 70's....they used to make a very different sound from the AI 747-200's which had newly arrived in the
AI fleet.....used to sound like a huge pneaumatic drill flying overhead....

AF was indeed using B741 to BOM in the early 70s.
They were equipped with 4 Pratt & Whitney JT9D-7 engines.

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 38):
Don't remember the actual reason for loss of airframe, but I do recall seeing the burnt out 747 sitting on the runway...

The aircraft involved in this incident was N28888, a B747-128, operting AF193 BOM-THR-TLV-CDG.

Cause : During a 180deg turn at the beginning of runway 27 the No.11 tire (on the right hand main gear) failed. During take-off the no.12 tire also failed. Wheels and braking assembly then started rubbing the runway, causing a fire. The take-off was aborted.
Initial delay in shutting down the engines and an improper deployment of fire services caused the fire to spread.


N28888 :

Topic: RE: AF 747 Classic Routes
Username: Gr8Circle
Posted 2009-11-14 14:23:35 and read 6166 times.



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 39):
Initial delay in shutting down the engines and an improper deployment of fire services caused the fire to spread.

Interesting observation...so it was partly the pilots' fault and partly the fault of slow response of emergency services that the plane was lost.....

I recall that the main fire station at BOM was actually very close to the spot where the AF 747 burned down.....close to the intersection of the 2 r/ways.....


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