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Topic: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Panamair
Posted 2009-11-30 05:07:39 and read 9392 times.

A bunch of changes were loaded this past weekend affecting DL's Summer 2010 transatlantic and transpacific schedules:

NEW Changes:
JFK-MXP upgauged to A333 from 763
JFK-DUB upgauged to 764 from 763
JFK-ATH upgauged to A333 from 763
ATL-LGW upgauged to A332 from 763
ATL-CDG upgauged to A333 from 763 (one flight only; the other daily remains a 763)
ATL-NRT now all 10x weekly 77L (used to be daily 744 and 3x weekly 77L)
DTW-FRA downgauged to 763 from A330
DTW-AMS small change from 4x daily A333 to 3x daily A333 + 1 daily A332
MEM-AMS downgauged to 763 from A330
NRT-BKK upgauged to A333 from A332
NRT-HKG back to 744 for summer from A333 (winter)

And the usual summer upgauge; ATL-FCO to A333; one JFK-FCO to A333

Previously-unannounced changes that were loaded in the past few weeks:
JFK-IST upgauged to 764 from 763
JFK-NCE upgauged to 764 from 763
JFK-BUD, JFK-PRG, JFK-CAI all going daily from 4-5x weekly previously
PDX-AMS upgauged to A332 from 763
ATL-LOS to daily from 5x weekly
ATL-MXP reduced to 5x weekly from daily
JFK-ACC reduced to 5x weekly from daily last summer (due to 3x weekly new ATL-ACC)

Previously-announced changes now loaded:
JFK-NRT to 744 from 777
JFK-TLV to 744 from 763
JFK-KBP upgauged to 764 from 763
LAX-NRT to A332 from 744 (the daily flight); the other 4x weekly is a 77L
JFK-ABV loaded (3x weekly 763)

Interesting points from the S10 schedule:

JFK will be the biggest transatlantic gateway - about 49,000 seats on 218 weekly flights versus ATL's 42,000+ seats on 176 weekly flights

More 764ER flying out of JFK than ATL - I assume they'll open a 764 pilot base out of JFK (now only ATL has a 764 pilot base)

The A332 utilization still looks very, very tight, whereas there seems to be quite some slack in the 763ER utilization; we may yet see some more tweaks there....

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2009-11-30 07:56:12 and read 9033 times.



Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
ATL-LGW upgauged to A332 from 763

This one seems a bit strange, considering the 764ER can easily operate that route. Perhaps the reason may be because the 764ER has more J seats, and many premium travelers prefer to fly to LHR over LGW.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Jfk777
Posted 2009-11-30 08:30:18 and read 8906 times.



Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
A bunch of changes were loaded this past weekend affecting DL's Summer 2010 transatlantic and transpacific schedules:

NEW Changes:
JFK-MXP upgauged to A333 from 763
JFK-DUB upgauged to 764 from 763
JFK-ATH upgauged to A333 from 763
ATL-LGW upgauged to A332 from 763
ATL-CDG upgauged to A333 from 763 (one flight only; the other daily remains a 763)
ATL-NRT now all 10x weekly 77L (used to be daily 744 and 3x weekly 77L)
DTW-FRA downgauged to 763 from A330
DTW-AMS small change from 4x daily A333 to 3x daily A333 + 1 daily A332
MEM-AMS downgauged to 763 from A330
NRT-BKK upgauged to A333 from A332
NRT-HKG back to 744 for summer from A333 (winter)

Further merger integration from NW to DL and Vice versa. I never thought we would see Delta 767 at NRT but then stranger things have happened.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: UN_B732
Posted 2009-11-30 08:32:03 and read 8893 times.

I still find it interesting KBP gets a 764 while SVO gets 763s from both ATL and JFK.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: DeltaL1011man
Posted 2009-11-30 08:53:23 and read 8820 times.



Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 1):

IIRC ATL-LGW was a 330(can't remember if it was a 300 or a 200) last year. IMO this wont be the last change. They still seem to have more 332 flights than planes. I expect a few more 333 routes to europe

Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
NRT-HKG back to 744 for summer from A333 (winter)

Nice upgrade in seats to HKG. Hope that next year we will see a SEA/LAX/ATL-HKG flight vs the upgraded NRT flight.

Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
LAX-NRT to A332 from 744 (the daily flight); the other 4x weekly is a 77L

Still wish they would do 7x 777 4x 332. It looks like they are using one slot pair from ATL/LAX-NRT

Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
And the usual summer upgauge; ATL-FCO to A333; one JFK-FCO to A333

DTW-FCO coming back? also is JFK-FCO 2x daily 1x 333 1x 763?

Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
More 764ER flying out of JFK than ATL - I assume they'll open a 764 pilot base out of JFK (now only ATL has a 764 pilot base)

This is the plan, along with the 90/32X swap in SLC.
They also are looking into a 330 ATL base but don't have the sims for all the time. If/When they get an extra sim they will open an ATL base. For now they will just DH the crews.

Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
JFK-BUD, JFK-PRG, JFK-CAI all going daily from 4-5x weekly previously

all 763s?

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Web
Posted 2009-11-30 09:08:12 and read 8746 times.

A bit off-topic, but does someone have a list of routes that will see the 744 next summer?

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Transpac787
Posted 2009-11-30 09:15:16 and read 8695 times.



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 4):
They also are looking into a 330 ATL base but don't have the sims for all the time. If/When they get an extra sim they will open an ATL base. For now they will just DH the crews.

Why would they need an extra sim?? There is quite a bit of slack in the A330 cockpit crew scheduling as it is anyway, with two of them currently in the desert. There would be no open bidding for an ATL base if there were displacements from the other base. That is, if the opening of an ATL base displaced 50 from MSP, 50 from DTW, or something like that.... those 100 pilots would get first bid choice on the ATL base, regardless of seniority bidding across the board.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Transpac787
Posted 2009-11-30 09:17:24 and read 8688 times.



Quoting Web (Reply 5):
A bit off-topic, but does someone have a list of routes that will see the 744 next summer?

Primarily going to be used on military charters.

Scheduled routes:
DTW-NRT
DTW-NGO
MSP-NRT
JFK-NRT
HNL-NRT
NRT-MNL
NRT-HKG
NGO-MNL
JFK-TLV

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Panamair
Posted 2009-11-30 09:18:58 and read 8674 times.



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 4):

DTW-FCO coming back? also is JFK-FCO 2x daily 1x 333 1x 763?

Yes, DTW-FCO A333 daily is back
JFK-FCO is 1 daily A333 and 5x weekly 763ER (last summer was 1 A333 daily + 4x weekly 763ER)

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 4):
Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
JFK-BUD, JFK-PRG, JFK-CAI all going daily from 4-5x weekly previously

all 763s?

Yes, BUD, PRG, and CAI all 763ERs.

Quoting Web (Reply 5):
but does someone have a list of routes that will see the 744 next summer?

NRT-DTW
NRT-MSP
NRT-JFK
NRT-HNL (2x daily) (increase from 1x 744 and 1x A333)
NRT-MNL
NRT-HKG
NGO-DTW
NGO-MNL
KIX-HNL (upgauge from A333)
JFK-TLV

Also, it looks like both the JFK-MAD and JFK-DUB will be using the 76D (764ER with flat-bed J seats currently used only on LHR flights) starting June 1, 2010. So clearly, there will be additional 76C to 76D conversions this coming winter/next spring....

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: KrisYYZ
Posted 2009-11-30 09:24:10 and read 8631 times.



Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
763
JFK-BUD, JFK-PRG, JFK-CAI all going daily from 4-5x weekly previously

Good to hear the DL is doing well in Budapest. DL use to operate this route with A310s and later codeshare MA's BUD-JFK route in the 90s.

MA no longer flies long-hauls. But I wonder if AA would ever consider BUD as another european OneWorld hub? BUD is in the center of Europe and MA offers a 2 tier connections to the rest of Europe.

KrisYYZ

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2009-11-30 10:11:29 and read 8508 times.



Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
NRT-HKG back to 744 for summer from A333 (winter)



Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
NRT-BKK upgauged to A333 from A332

I've watched with interest these last few years how NWA and now DL have continued to play musical planes in these markets - everything from 757-332-333-DC10-742 and 744s.

HKG is obviously one of Asia's larger markets but seemingly NW/DL has struggled in maintaining consistent service pattern.
I guess the longer term future for DL HKG should be similar to what United does with nonstop links to the US and forgo the NRT tag eventually.

For BKK I suppose while a popular market its lower yielding one while also being the hub of a competing alliance which likely is why United has continued to succeed using larger equipment while NW/DL has been down to as little as 757s.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: BmiBaby737
Posted 2009-11-30 10:34:04 and read 8429 times.

Will LHR remain a Boeing 767-400 route only?

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: DeltaL1011man
Posted 2009-11-30 11:17:00 and read 8327 times.



Quoting BmiBaby737 (Reply 11):

yes.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2009-11-30 12:02:59 and read 8181 times.

Perhaps another reason for the increase of A330 flights out of ATL is because DL will be installing the new Thompson Vantage BusinessElite seats on the rest of the 764ER fleet next year, which will require several aircraft to temporarily be out of service. The 763ER upgrades should begin in 2011.

[Edited 2009-11-30 12:06:19]

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: SurfandSnow
Posted 2009-11-30 12:23:47 and read 8108 times.



Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
JFK-MXP upgauged to A333 from 763

This is somewhat surprising. Though US did drop its MXP service, JFK-MXP remains awfully competitive with AA, AZ, AND DL in the mix. I guess there must be more ties between NYC and Italy's fashion/biz capital than I thought.

Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
JFK-DUB upgauged to 764 from 763

DUB also sees an upgrade for AA. Just in time for the new terminal with full pre-clearance, right?

Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
ATL-LGW upgauged to A332 from 763

Nice to see one U.S. carrier realize that not everyone wants to fly to LHR! I wonder if DL might consider offering JFK-LGW when the global economy starts to pick up. I think they could possibly pull it off, considering the only options to reach LGW from the U.S. are MCO (BA/VS), TPA (BA), LAS (VS), ATL (DL) and CLT (US).

Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
ATL-NRT now all 10x weekly 77L (used to be daily 744 and 3x weekly 77L)

Ouch. An upgrade from the pax perspective but far less capacity...

Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
DTW-FRA downgauged to 763 from A330

Yikes. And I thought DL, having had a huge presence in FRA, could help this route..

Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
MEM-AMS downgauged to 763 from A330

Not a good sign. Though, I guess MEM has to be one of the smallest U.S. cities to see any transatlantic service...

Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
PDX-AMS upgauged to A332 from 763

WOW! A pleasant surprise.

Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
ATL-LOS to daily from 5x weekly

It's about time! We all saw this coming.

Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
JFK-KBP upgauged to 764 from 763

Good to hear. I was worried about this route when it went seasonal. Guess we can rest assured about its future!

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Luckyone
Posted 2009-11-30 12:28:04 and read 8077 times.



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 14):
AZ, AND DL in the mix

AZ and DL are one airline across the Atlantic.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 14):
Ouch. An upgrade from the pax perspective but far less capacity...

Long term goal for Narita is to shut it down. At the moment this is pure speculation, but it's my opinion.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 14):
Yikes. And I thought DL, having had a huge presence in FRA, could help this route..

Delta hasn't had a significant presence in Frankfurt since the late 90's. Serves it at most by three or four flights from ATL, JFK, and DTW.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: BMI727
Posted 2009-11-30 12:28:46 and read 8079 times.



Quoting BmiBaby737 (Reply 11):
Will LHR remain a Boeing 767-400 route only?

Yes because they want the new BusinessElite seats in that market.

Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 3):
I still find it interesting KBP gets a 764 while SVO gets 763s from both ATL and JFK.

Perhaps because there may be more business traffic to SVO, including probably relatively strong O&D from JFK while I would think that Kiev, like many Eastern European destinations, probably is mostly VFR traffic.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Luckyone
Posted 2009-11-30 12:31:33 and read 8067 times.



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 16):
Perhaps because there may be more business traffic to SVO, including probably relatively strong O&D from JFK while I would think that Kiev, like many Eastern European destinations, probably is mostly VFR traffic.

So they're sending the plane with the inferior business product to the bigger business destination???

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: BMI727
Posted 2009-11-30 12:40:22 and read 8008 times.



Quoting Luckyone (Reply 17):
So they're sending the plane with the inferior business product to the bigger business destination???

Only 7 of the 764s have the new seats in business, which are always sent to London and a few other places. I don't know for sure but I would venture a guess that the 764s sent to Kiev are probably not the upgraded ones and therefore have the same business class as the 763.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Bobnwa
Posted 2009-11-30 12:42:49 and read 7997 times.



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 4):
. Hope that next year we will see a SEA/LAX/ATL-HKG flight vs the upgraded NRT flight.

Are you suggesting a SEA-HKG, LAX-HKG, and a SEA-HKG next year and dropping the NRT-HKG flight. Do have passenger data to support that kind of increase in service?

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Luckyone
Posted 2009-11-30 12:47:49 and read 7974 times.



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 19):
Are you suggesting a SEA-HKG, LAX-HKG, and a SEA-HKG next year and dropping the NRT-HKG flight. Do have passenger data to support that kind of increase in service?

I wonder if he means that we'll see service from at least one of those cities. ATL is probably far fetched. SEA (given the recent focus) would probably be the best bet.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Bobnwa
Posted 2009-11-30 12:54:26 and read 7937 times.



Quoting Luckyone (Reply 20):
I wonder if he means that we'll see service from at least one of those cities. ATL is probably far fetched. SEA (given the recent focus) would probably be the best bet.

If anyone else said it, I would take it to mean either SEA-LAX or ATL but not from DeltaL1011man.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2009-11-30 12:56:30 and read 7922 times.



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 4):
Nice upgrade in seats to HKG. Hope that next year we will see a SEA/LAX/ATL-HKG flight vs the upgraded NRT flight.

I highly doubt ATL-HKG is in the cards. SEA-HKG would be a good addition. LAX-HKG would be hard to make money on for DL due to the competition.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2009-11-30 13:19:44 and read 7844 times.



Quoting Luckyone (Reply 15):
Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 14):
AZ, AND DL in the mix

AZ and DL are one airline across the Atlantic.

There is no profit sharing/metal neutrality on DL-AZ, at least not yet.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: BmiBaby737
Posted 2009-11-30 13:27:58 and read 7812 times.



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 16):
Yes because they want the new BusinessElite seats in that market.

Sorry to ask such a daft question, but with WidgetHeads down I cant find out... will the BusinessElite seats be installed on any other aircraft soon that may well end up at LHR?

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: BMI727
Posted 2009-11-30 13:30:23 and read 7796 times.



Quoting BmiBaby737 (Reply 24):
will the BusinessElite seats be installed on any other aircraft soon that may well end up at LHR?

I would hope so, but as far as I know only the 764s will be getting them and the 777-200ER fleet is getting the herringbone lie flat seats like the LRs if I'm not mistaken. I don't know what is going to be happening to the 763s or planes inherited from NW.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2009-11-30 13:38:22 and read 8203 times.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 25):
I don't know what is going to be happening to the 763s or planes inherited from NW.

The 763ERs will be getting the Thompson Vantage BusinessElite seats like on the 764ERs starting in 2011, alongside new slimline seats and PTVs in Y. The 763s with the main deck crew rests (76Ts) will be first in line for the mods.

The 744s and A330s will probably also eventually get some form of flat-bed product in BusinessElite, although the exact models of seats haven't been decided. Since these aircraft currently have the sloped-flat seats in J, they are lower priority than the 767 and 777 fleet.

[Edited 2009-11-30 13:39:53]

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: BMI727
Posted 2009-11-30 13:41:34 and read 8180 times.

Thanks for the info.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 26):
The 744s and A330s will probably also eventually get some form of flat-bed product in BusinessElite, although the exact models of seats haven't been decided.

I think that they would be stupid not to, unless they are contemplating retirement of the 744s in the near future, but I don't see that happening other than maybe a plane here or there.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Panamair
Posted 2009-11-30 14:31:17 and read 8041 times.



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 14):
This is somewhat surprising. Though US did drop its MXP service, JFK-MXP remains awfully competitive with AA, AZ, AND DL in the mix. I guess there must be more ties between NYC and Italy's fashion/biz capital than I thought.

The upgauge in JFK-MXP comes at the expense of ATL (being reduced to 5x weekly 763ER from a daily 764 last summer). Actually, total number of seats offered between the U.S and MXP will be down a notch from last summer.

AZ is also reportedly cutting its JFK-MXP service to 5x weekly in S'10.

Quoting BmiBaby737 (Reply 11):
Will LHR remain a Boeing 767-400 route only?

Well, LHR needs to be a flat-bed Business cabin; because of this, the 764ER is the only possibility at this point (the 77L is a waste on JFK-LHR), When 763ERs get the flat-bed conversion, I won't be surprised if some frequencies get moved to the 763ER depending on the economic situation and demand picture at that time.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 18):
Only 7 of the 764s have the new seats in business, which are always sent to London and a few other places. I don't know for sure but I would venture a guess that the 764s sent to Kiev are probably not the upgraded ones and therefore have the same business class as the 763.

Yes, currently only 7 have the flat-beds and they are used exclusively to LHR (this past summer, they were used on all LHR flights as well as JFK-VCE). It looks like that at least a few more of the remaining 14 will be converted by summer 2010 because the seat map for JFK-MAD and JFK-DUB starting June 1 2010 show them as using the flat-bed-configured 764s.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2009-11-30 14:33:21 and read 8057 times.



Quoting Panamair (Reply 28):
AZ is also reportedly cutting its JFK-MXP service to 5x weekly in S'10.

AZ will have one daily MXP-U.S. flight effective 28MAR09: MoThSa to Miami and TuWeFrSu to JFK.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: DeltaL1011man
Posted 2009-11-30 15:38:20 and read 7699 times.



Quoting Luckyone (Reply 15):
Long term goal for Narita is to shut it down. At the moment this is pure speculation, but it's my opinion.

not from from Atlanta. My guess is Delta feels like they many lose PAXs due to the upgrade of JFK-NRT.
BTW i'm a little shocked with so many JFK seats when, IIRC, they are redoing a runway this summer. Would not be a fun time to fly via JFK.

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 19):
Are you suggesting a SEA-HKG, LAX-HKG, and a SEA-HKG next year and dropping the NRT-HKG flight. Do have passenger data to support that kind of increase in service?

If it wouldn't get deleted i would just as if you are(starts with an S). But I can't so i will just say, read it all. I said HOPE. I can get what it means for you if need. I assume you don't what it means/is.
It is pretty sad that you try to find something with everything I say, so you just post what you think I mean and not even read what I say. I have never seen someone ask so many (s word) questions over "i hope, IMO, IMHO, maybe, I wish etc" and act as though i am saying it will happen, When i make it pretty clear that i hope they add a ATL/LAX/SEA-HKG vs upgrading NRT-HKG to a 744 from an A333.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 22):
I highly doubt ATL-HKG is in the cards. SEA-HKG would be a good addition. LAX-HKG would be hard to make money on for DL due to the competition.

disagree, agree and agree to a point but i would like to see it given a shot with something smaller than a 744. (and a good economy and not super high fuel) But i would like to see more LAX-Anywhere on Delta and more TPAC stuff from US carriers. Number one O/D market and not many US carrier flights.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 23):
There is no profit sharing/metal neutrality on DL-AZ, at least not yet.

should be by S10 though IIRC.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2009-11-30 15:40:50 and read 7676 times.



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 30):

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 23):
There is no profit sharing/metal neutrality on DL-AZ, at least not yet.

should be by S10 though IIRC.

Nothing has been applied for, and it is a process that, through DOT, could easily take as long as 8 months, even though it is unlikely not to be approved.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: DeltaL1011man
Posted 2009-11-30 15:44:19 and read 7615 times.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 31):
Nothing has been applied for, and it is a process that, through DOT, could easily take as long as 8 months, even though it is unlikely not to be approved.

Ah I didn't know they haven't applied yet. If BA/AA/IB doesn't make it you think they will give it to them?

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2009-11-30 16:00:44 and read 7480 times.



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 32):

Ah I didn't know they haven't applied yet. If BA/AA/IB doesn't make it you think they will give it to them?

In the extremely unlikely event that BA/AA/IB is denied, then that is an indication that DOT in general has reversed its view on the effectiveness of ATI in totality. It will undoubtedly lead to AA/BA/IB, and other non-airline parties with politcal clout, petitioning to DOT that all ATI alliances be disbanded - which DOT has the power to do at any time.

AZ/DL JV will be easily approved otherwise.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: PHXtoDCAtoMSP
Posted 2009-11-30 16:47:27 and read 7202 times.

So can we assume that S10 aircraft utilization will look something like this? (I know this might be overly simplistic from a scheduling standpoint)

DTW-NGO-MNL-NGO-DTW - 744
DTW-NRT-HKG-NRT-DTW - 744
MSP-NRT-MNL-NRT-MSP - 744
SEA-NRT-BKK-NRT-SEA - 333
PDX-NRT-GUM-NRT-PDX - 76L
SFO-NRT-PEK-NRT-SFO - 332
LAX-NRT-PVG-NRT-LAX - 332
SLC-NRT-SIN-NRT-TPE-NRT-SLC - 332 (2x with the extra TPE tag, 5x with no TPE tag)
HNL-NRT-HNL - 744
HNL-KIX-HNL - 744
HNL-NRT-JFK-TLV-JFK-NRT-HNL - 744
ATL-NRT-LAX - 77L (normal ATL-NRT bank flight returns on evening NRT-LAX) 4x
LAX-NRT-ATL - 77L (early morning LAX-NRT departure returns on normal bank NRT-ATL) 4x
ATL-NRT-ATL - 77L (early morning ATL-NRT departure returns on normal bank NRT-ATL) 3x
ATL-NRT-ATL - 77L (normal ATL-NRT bank flight returns on evening NRT-ATL) 3x

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2009-11-30 17:25:08 and read 6967 times.



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 14):
Not a good sign. Though, I guess MEM has to be one of the smallest U.S. cities to see any transatlantic service...

I'm not sure it's a bad sign - if the route could perform acceptably on a larger D10/330, surely it will perform acceptably with a more appropriately-sized 763.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: PDXBJV
Posted 2009-11-30 17:31:18 and read 6926 times.



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 35):
I'm not sure it's a bad sign - if the route could perform acceptably on a larger D10/330, surely it will perform acceptably with a more appropriately-sized 763.

Well with that said then, what makes the A330 not appropriately sized, if it performs acceptably?

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2009-11-30 17:33:20 and read 6930 times.



Quoting PDXBJV (Reply 36):
Well with that said then, what makes the A330 not appropriately sized, if it performs acceptably?

Imagine a situation in which the 330 makes $2 but the 763 makes $5. Both are making money (and thus performing acceptably), but the 763 is better.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: PHXtoDCAtoMSP
Posted 2009-11-30 18:00:44 and read 6734 times.



Quoting PDXBJV (Reply 36):
Well with that said then, what makes the A330 not appropriately sized, if it performs acceptably?

I think it is safe to assume that the route performs "acceptably"....seeing as how the service has been pretty consistent. I think it is also safe to say that the route does not perform "exceptionally" well....otherwise the 330 would stay. That being said....I think the biggest reason that the 763 will be put on the route is because of competition (or lack thereof). There is virtually no competitive reason to have either the size or the product of the 330 on the route. Clearly the 333 is positioned well size-wise for markets like FCO, and the 332 has the premium size and product for more premium routes (especially with OA competition). MEM just doesn't have concerns like these and I think with ATL acting as a reliever for any lost AMS-MEM traffic, the 763 will do quite well on the route.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: PHXtoDCAtoMSP
Posted 2009-11-30 18:09:08 and read 6718 times.



Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
The A332 utilization still looks very, very tight, whereas there seems to be quite some slack in the 763ER utilization; we may yet see some more tweaks there....

I believe there are 11 A332 frames. From my calculations we have the following:

SFO-NRT-PEK-NRT-SFO - 2 frames needed
LAX-NRT-PVG-NRT-LAX - 2 frames needed
SLC-NRT-SIN-NRT-TPE-NRT-SLC - 2 frames needed
AMS-ATL - 1 frame needed
ATL-LGW - 1 frame needed
AMS-BOM - 1 frame needed
AMS-PDX - 1 frame needed
AMS-DTW - 1 frame needed
AMS-BOS - 1 frame needed

This would require 12 frames. Am I missing something? Are there more than 11 A332 frames? Is there someway to schedule all of those AMS flights (BOM, DTW, ATL, PDX, BOS) to where you would need 1 less frame? If not, seems to me that there are yet more tweaks to come in the schedule.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: PSU.DTW.SCE
Posted 2009-11-30 19:16:01 and read 6283 times.



Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
The A332 utilization still looks very, very tight, whereas there seems to be quite some slack in the 763ER utilization; we may yet see some more tweaks there....

Yep. The schedule isn't done yet. Its pretty typical to see some conflicting equipment uses this early in the schedule while it is still rough.

NW has always scheduled the heck out of their A332's the past few summers. Looks like that trend is going to continue this summer again with more of the merger cross-fleeting onto legacy DL routes.

I wouldn't be surprised to see that DTW-AMS A332 switch to an -300, or I wouldn't be surprised to see the 744 make an appearance on DTW-AMS this summer if the A330 fleet gets over-scheduled.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 4):
DTW-FCO coming back? also is JFK-FCO 2x daily 1x 333 1x 763?

Yep DTW-FCO is coming back. Did fairly well last summer.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 4):
They also are looking into a 330 ATL base but don't have the sims for all the time. If/When they get an extra sim they will open an ATL base. For now they will just DH the crews.

I can't remember, but are the A330's fenced to NW pilots? I know the 744's are.

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 7):
Primarily going to be used on military charters.

Scheduled routes:
DTW-NRT
DTW-NGO
MSP-NRT
JFK-NRT
HNL-NRT
NRT-MNL
NRT-HKG
NGO-MNL
JFK-TLV

Its very likely some will be undergoing mods by S10....pending board approval  Smile
DTW-NRT = 1.5
DTW-NGO = 1.5
MSP-NRT = 1.5
JFK-NRT = 1.5
HNL-NRT = 1.0
NRT-MNL = 0.5
NRT-HKG = 0.5
NGO-MNL = 0.5
JFK-TLV = 1.0

That accounts for ~10 frame per day. 2-3 will designated as charter/military aircraft. The rest will be in maintenance/spare/mods. Its very possible we could see another route go 744 for the summer if the A330/767/777 utilization is too high - like DTW-AMS

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 14):
Yikes. And I thought DL, having had a huge presence in FRA, could help this route..

LH flies DTW-FRA
FRA is not a Skyteam hub and thus is more or less a spoke city
FRA is not a tourist town
The auto industry ties between DTW and FRA are not what they used to be
A 763 more appropriately matches capacity with demand.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 14):

Not a good sign. Though, I guess MEM has to be one of the smallest U.S. cities to see any transatlantic service...



Quoting Luckyone (Reply 15):
Delta hasn't had a significant presence in Frankfurt since the late 90's. Serves it at most by three or four flights from ATL, JFK, and DTW.

As with DTW-FRA, keep in mind that the A330 -200 is a 260 seat a/c and the -300 is a 290 seat aircraft, as that is more capacity than both of these routes need. Keep in mind that the A330 is a lot of coach seats, and a lower mix of J vs Y than the 763.

FRA is a spoke. They are a non-hub airline in FRA. Thats LH,

Dynamics of the hubs have changed post-merger. What made the most sense for NW with their hub structure (DTW, MEM, MSP) and their TPAC and TATL aircraft (75A, 332, 333, 744) and for DL with their hubs (ATL, JFK, CVG, SLC) and their aircraft (757, 763, 764, 777) is not the same as it is with the combined airline and the the combinations of hubs and aircraft.

They can direct a lot of connecting traffic over the most appropriate hub and serve it with the most appropriate aircraft with the most appropriate capacity and mix of coach vs. business class.

Quoting Luckyone (Reply 15):
Long term goal for Narita is to shut it down. At the moment this is pure speculation, but it's my opinion.

At least you call it what is it, pure speculation and zero fact on your part.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Transpac787
Posted 2009-11-30 19:29:21 and read 6191 times.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 40):
I can't remember, but are the A330's fenced to NW pilots? I know the 744's are.

A330's are not fenced. Fenced aircraft for NW are:

16x 747-400 and any subsequent direct replacement. e.g. 1:1 773ER for 744
18x 787-8 or "any comparable substitute". e.g. if DL were to take 777's in place of 787's, those new 777's would be fenced 100% to NW crews.

Fenced aircraft for DL are:

8x 777-200ER
8x 777-200LR, ships 7101 - 7108.
(Ships 7109 and 7110 will NOT be fenced and will be open-bid, seniority basis)

[Edited 2009-11-30 19:30:44]

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2009-11-30 19:32:07 and read 6147 times.



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 41):
(Ships 7109 and 7110 will NOT be fenced and will be open-bid, seniority basis)

Practically, how does that work? Surely, there aren't any ex-NW guys that want to move over to the 772 for only two ships - once more come, it will obviously be a different story.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Luckyone
Posted 2009-11-30 19:39:15 and read 6097 times.



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 40):
At least you call it what is it, pure speculation and zero fact on your part.

Well it's speculation based on my interpretation of the recent events and how hard Delta has lobbied for the JL deal. So yes, no hard facts! But reading in between the lines I come up with what others have as well, Delta sees the NRT operation as short term.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Transpac787
Posted 2009-11-30 19:44:37 and read 6060 times.



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 42):
Practically, how does that work? Surely, there aren't any ex-NW guys that want to move over to the 772 for only two ships - once more come, it will obviously be a different story.

It has to do with staffing levels, not flying the exact ships. I have NO idea what DL runs their widebodies at in regard to crew scheduling, but just for the sake of explanation let's say they have 8 captains and 9 first officers per 777. So, for two more 777's to show up, they would need 16 new captains and 18 new first officers. So yes, if they were senior enough they could, hypothetically, be all NW pilots. Of course it would never happen that way, but NW crews will eventually make their way onto the 777. Once on the 777, they can fly any route they like, as per what their seniority can hold.

Again, the fencing only has to do with staffing levels. If DL were to take a hypothetical 50x 787's instead of the original 18, the crew staffing for only 18 of them would be 100% NW crews while the rest would be open bid.

Make sense??  scratchchin 

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2009-11-30 19:55:51 and read 5997 times.



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 44):
Make sense??

MUCH more - thank you.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Panamair
Posted 2009-12-01 00:45:14 and read 5270 times.



Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 40):
That accounts for ~10 frame per day. 2-3 will designated as charter/military aircraft. The rest will be in maintenance/spare/mods.

There should be another 2 that are spoken for since NRT-HNL goes double daily 744 and KIX-HNL also goes 744 (from A333)

Quoting PHXtoDCAtoMSP (Reply 39):
believe there are 11 A332 frames. From my calculations we have the following:

SFO-NRT-PEK-NRT-SFO - 2 frames needed
LAX-NRT-PVG-NRT-LAX - 2 frames needed
SLC-NRT-SIN-NRT-TPE-NRT-SLC - 2 frames needed
AMS-ATL - 1 frame needed
ATL-LGW - 1 frame needed
AMS-BOM - 1 frame needed
AMS-PDX - 1 frame needed
AMS-DTW - 1 frame needed
AMS-BOS - 1 frame needed

This would require 12 frames. Am I missing something? Are there more than 11 A332 frames?

No, you're right...I came to the same calculation as well - 12 needed but only 11 available. There will be more switches with A333/ 763ERs before the schedules are finalized....based on these schedules, there is some slack on the A333 front (about 2-3 frames) and much more availability on the 763ER side (at least another 7-8 or more).

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Panamair
Posted 2009-12-01 00:54:22 and read 5260 times.

The other "unsolved" issue is with the 75E (17 frames on the DL side from the ex-AA/TW fleet). Based on current schedules, they will needmore than the 17 if they plan to continue using them on the 7x daily JFK-LAX and 5x daily JFK-SFO in addition to all the transoceanic flying:

JFK to SNN, ZRH, CPH, ARN, MAN, AGP (5x wkly), VLC (4x wkly), DKR (4x wkly), SFO (5x daily), LAX (7x daily)
ATL to FOR, BSB
PHL to CDG (1 daily)
PIT to CDG (5x weekly)

Options would include using some of the NW frames, or switching some of the above to the 763ER...(e.g., select LAX/SFO flights, or some transatlantics)

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: AirGabon
Posted 2009-12-01 02:42:39 and read 5040 times.

What about DKR? Still flights from JFK? 757 or 763?

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Bobnwa
Posted 2009-12-01 04:35:06 and read 4782 times.



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 30):
If it wouldn't get deleted i would just as if you are(starts with an S). But I can't so i will just say, read it all. I said HOPE. I can get what it means for you if need. I assume you don't what it means/is.
It is pretty sad that you try to find something with everything I say, so you just post what you think I mean and not even read what I say. I have never seen someone ask so many (s word) questions over "i hope, IMO, IMHO, maybe, I wish etc" and act as though i am saying it will happen, When i make it pretty clear that i hope they add a ATL/LAX/SEA-HKG vs upgrading NRT-HKG to a 744 from an A333.

Still don't understand what you are "hoping" for. Do want one flight to go ATL/LAX/SEA/HKG or do you want three flights ATL-HKG, LAX-HKG, SEA-HKG? You did not make that clear. Whatever one of these is your "hope", why is it, and do have and data to back up why you "hope" DL does it?

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: RwSEA
Posted 2009-12-01 04:55:15 and read 4706 times.



Quoting PHXtoDCAtoMSP (Reply 39):
SFO-NRT-PEK-NRT-SFO - 2 frames needed
LAX-NRT-PVG-NRT-LAX - 2 frames needed
SLC-NRT-SIN-NRT-TPE-NRT-SLC - 2 frames needed
AMS-ATL - 1 frame needed
ATL-LGW - 1 frame needed
AMS-BOM - 1 frame needed
AMS-PDX - 1 frame needed
AMS-DTW - 1 frame needed
AMS-BOS - 1 frame needed

With this schedule, where would maintenance be performed and how would that be factored in? It was my understanding that all A330 maintenance is performed in MSP, SEA, or NRT. With so many ATL-Europe flights, no A332s going to SEA or MSP, and no bridge between ATL-LAX/SLC, how would this work? Is A330 maintenance now performed in ATL?

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: SW733
Posted 2009-12-01 05:41:51 and read 4614 times.



Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 9):
But I wonder if AA would ever consider BUD as another european OneWorld hub?

I wish. As a loyal OneWorld flyer and frequent visitor to Hungary (family), I would love it now that Malev is no longer doing longhauls. As it stands, I usually have to go through LHR or FRA, two airports I really like to avoid. Heck, even AA going to VIE would be beautiful for me since my family is in western Hungary, but that would not make sense for them as they have no partners there like they do with Malev in BUD.

I could see it happening, but definitely not anytime soon. DL seems to have picked up the longhaul slack from MA quite well and gained a loyal following in Hungary from what I hear. It might be tough to rattle that loyalty loose, even if it is a *O carrier that comes in with direct ties to MA.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: DeltaL1011man
Posted 2009-12-01 05:52:02 and read 4549 times.



Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 40):
I can't remember, but are the A330's fenced to NW pilots? I know the 744's are.

Nope just the 747s and 787s.(and replacements)

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 40):
DTW-NRT = 1.5
DTW-NGO = 1.5
MSP-NRT = 1.5
JFK-NRT = 1.5
HNL-NRT = 1.0
NRT-MNL = 0.5
NRT-HKG = 0.5
NGO-MNL = 0.5
JFK-TLV = 1.0

you forgot KIX-NRT, NRT-HNL is 2x daily

Quoting Panamair (Reply 46):
12 needed but only 11 available

plus wouldn't they want 2ish extra in case of MX and such?

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 49):
Still don't understand what you are "hoping" for. Do want one flight to go ATL/LAX/SEA/HKG or do you want three flights ATL-HKG, LAX-HKG, SEA-HKG? You did not make that clear. Whatever one of these is your "hope", why is it, and do have and data to back up why you "hope" DL does it?

For just one of the above. SEA IMO would be a good add (hasn't NW ran it before?) and LAX because i would like to see more US carriers in the LAX-TPAC market. ATL just because its Atlanta. (but i would like to see PVG come back over anything) No data, just hoping. But i believe SEA would work, LAX may work.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Tommy767
Posted 2009-12-01 05:53:54 and read 4557 times.



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 14):
Not a good sign. Though, I guess MEM has to be one of the smallest U.S. cities to see any transatlantic service...

I think MEM will be alright. DL seems to be using the 763 on routes to AMS pretty regularly (EWR/MSP-AMS for example.)

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Panamair
Posted 2009-12-01 07:21:11 and read 4448 times.



Quoting AirGabon (Reply 48):
What about DKR? Still flights from JFK? 757 or 763?

Yes, JFK-DKR is so far scheduled to remain as a 4x weekly 757 service:

DL 216 JFK 4:15pm DKR 4:45am+ Tu Th Sa Su 75E

DL 217 DKR 1:30pm JFK 6:15pm We Su 75E
DL 215 DKR 8:45am JFK 1:05pm Mo Fr 75E

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: WorldTraveler
Posted 2009-12-01 07:29:25 and read 4437 times.



Quoting Panamair (Reply 47):
Options would include using some of the NW frames

Are any of the NW 757's scheduled right now other than on intra-Asia flights?
DL could easily move the NW 757s to the JFKLAX run and leave the DL 757s for TATL flying.
The 757 is the easiest plane to move between DL and NW since it is common and it is not a fenced a/c.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Hjulicher
Posted 2009-12-01 07:57:18 and read 4373 times.

Does anyone have a list of the complete S10 DL Long-Haul Schedule? What about the new annoucements for DTW-HKG, ICN?

BTW, does DL operate the 763ER on it's other flights to FRA? Perhaps it makes it easier to schedule the flights with a DTW-FRA sector. Maybe we'll see something similar to what happens on the LHR service. (e.g. JFK-FRA-DTW-FRA-JFK).

Thanks in advance.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: DeltaL1011man
Posted 2009-12-01 08:12:07 and read 4328 times.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 55):
Are any of the NW 757's scheduled right now other than on intra-Asia flights?

Don't believe so. I would also expect Delta will have to use some of NW's 75As for Hawaii routes as they have 4 planes that they say are going to do LAX-LIH,KOA,HNL,OGG plus SAN/SFO-HNL. (all 1x daily save LAX-OGG which is 2x daily) It is funny how people(I was one) thought Delta would have a bunch of ETOPS 757s but it looks like they will need most/all fo them. Plus They could(as you have said) take a few 757-232s and do the same configs as they 75Es now.

Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 56):
BTW, does DL operate the 763ER on it's other flights to FRA? Perhaps it makes it easier to schedule the flights with a DTW-FRA sector. Maybe we'll see something similar to what happens on the LHR service. (e.g. JFK-FRA-DTW-FRA-JFK).

JFK-FRA is a 763. Went from 757 to 763 after they cut CVG.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 55):
DL could easily move the NW 757s to the JFKLAX run and leave the DL 757s for TATL flying.

Or the other way around. I assume the NW 75As will start getting mod work to become 75Es for Delta. This meaning same seats and such.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Panamair
Posted 2009-12-01 08:28:40 and read 4314 times.



Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 56):
Does anyone have a list of the complete S10 DL Long-Haul Schedule?

As of today for the peak summer (always subject to change, of course):

Transatlantic:

JFK-LHR 764 2x daily
JFK-MAN 75E Daily
JFK-DUB 764 Daily
JFK-SNN 75E Daily
JFK-AMS 763 Daily (KL operates 2 other daily flights)
JFK-BRU 763 Daily
JFK-NCE 764 Daily
JFK-FRA 763 Daily
JFK-TXL 763 Daily
JFK-ZRH 75E Daily
JFK-ARN 75E Daily
JFK-CPH 75E Daily
JFK-MXP A333 Daily
JFK-VCE 764 Daily
JFK-PSA 763 Daily
JFK-FCO A333 Daily + 763 5x weekly
JFK-MAD 764 Daily
JFK-BCN 764 Daily
JFK-AGP 75E 5x weekly
JFK-VLC 75E 4x weekly
JFK-ATH A333 Daily
JFK-IST 764 Daily
JFK-SVO 763 Daily
JFK-KBP 764 5x weekly
JFK-PRG 763 Daily
JFK-BUD 763 Daily
JFK-TLV 744 Daily
JFK-AMM 763 5x weekly
JFK-CAI 763 Daily
JFK-ACC 763 5x weekly
JFK-ABV 763 3x weekly
JFK-DKR 75E 4x weekly

ATL-LHR 764 Daily
ATL-LGW A332 Daily
ATL-MAN 763 Daily
ATL-DUB 763 Daily
ATL-AMS A332 Daily
ATL-BRU 763 Daily
ATL-CDG A333 Daliy + 763 Daily
ATL-FRA 777 Daily
ATL-MUC 764 Daily
ATL-STR 763 Daily
ATL-DUS 763 Daily
ATL-ZRH 763 Daily
ATL-CPH 763 Daily
ATL-SVO 763 5x weekly
ATL-PRG 763 4x weekly
ATL-ATH 763 Daily
ATL-VCE 763 4-5x weekly
ATL-MXP 763 5x weekly
ATL-FCO A333 Daily
ATL-MAD 764 Daily
ATL-BCN 764 Daily
ATL-TLV 77E Daily
ATL-DXB 77L Daily
ATL-JNB 77L Daily
ATL-LOS 77E Daily
ATL-ACC 763 3x weekly

DTW-LHR 764 Daily
DTW-AMS 3x Daily A333 + 1 Daily A332
DTW-FRA 763 Daily
DTW-FCO A333 Daily

MSP-LHR 764 Daily
MSP-AMS A333 3x Daily
MSP-CDG 763 Daily

CVG-CDG 763 Daily

MEM-AMS 763 Daily

PDX-AMS A332 Daily

PHL-CDG 75E Daily

PIT-CDG 75E 5x weekly

EWR-AMS 763 Daily

BOS-AMS A333 Daily + A332 Daily

SEA-AMS A333 Daily + 763 3x weekly

SLC-CDG 763 Daily

AMS-BOM A332 Daily


"Deep" South America:

ATL-GRU 764 Daily
ATL-GIG 763 Daily
ATL-BSB / FOR 75E
ATL-EZE 763 Daily
ATL-SCL 763 Daily
ATL-LIM 764 Daily
JFK-GRU 763 5x weekly
LAX-GRU 763 3x weekly

Transpacific:

DTW-NRT 744 Daily
DTW-NGO 744 5-6x weekly
DTW-PVG 77E Daily
DTW-ICN 77E 5x weekly
DTW-HKG 77L 5x weekly
MSP-NRT 744 Daily
JFK-NRT 744 Daily
ATL-NRT 77L 10x weekly
SEA-NRT A333 Daily
SEA-KIX 763 Daily
SEA-PEK 763 5x weekly
PDX-NRT 763 Daily
SLC-NRT A332 5x weekly
SFO-NRT A332 Daily
LAX-NRT A332 Daily; 77L 4x weekly
LAX-SYD 77L Daily
HNL-NRT 744 2x Daily
HNL-KIX 744 Daily

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Transpac787
Posted 2009-12-01 08:31:54 and read 4297 times.



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 57):
I would also expect Delta will have to use some of NW's 75As for Hawaii routes

They are, to some extent, operating the currently less-than-daily PDX-HNL and SFO-HNL.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Transpac787
Posted 2009-12-01 08:40:43 and read 4273 times.



Quoting Panamair (Reply 58):
As of today for the peak summer (always subject to change, of course):

I notice very few 772ER's in the schedule, only see them on:

DTW-ICN
DTW-PVG
ATL-LOS
ATL-FRA

I assume this is because they'll be getting interior reconfigurations to match the 772LR's??

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: DeltaL1011man
Posted 2009-12-01 08:57:36 and read 4218 times.



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 60):

ATL-TLV is also a 77E, but yes Lie-flat mods start Q1 2010

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: JohnJ
Posted 2009-12-01 09:02:44 and read 4196 times.



Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 53):
I think MEM will be alright. DL seems to be using the 763 on routes to AMS pretty regularly (EWR/MSP-AMS for example.)

Back in KLM days MEM-AMS operated with a 763 half the year, so this is not without precedent.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Hjulicher
Posted 2009-12-01 09:14:21 and read 4160 times.



Quoting Panamair (Reply 58):

Thank you

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Jetlanta
Posted 2009-12-01 10:40:09 and read 4028 times.



Quoting Panamair (Reply 58):
As of today for the peak summer (always subject to change, of course):

Transatlantic:

JFK-LHR 764 2x daily
JFK-MAN 75E Daily
JFK-DUB 764 Daily
JFK-SNN 75E Daily
JFK-AMS 763 Daily (KL operates 2 other daily flights)
JFK-BRU 763 Daily
JFK-NCE 764 Daily
JFK-FRA 763 Daily
JFK-TXL 763 Daily
JFK-ZRH 75E Daily
JFK-ARN 75E Daily
JFK-CPH 75E Daily
JFK-MXP A333 Daily
JFK-VCE 764 Daily
JFK-PSA 763 Daily
JFK-FCO A333 Daily + 763 5x weekly
JFK-MAD 764 Daily
JFK-BCN 764 Daily
JFK-AGP 75E 5x weekly
JFK-VLC 75E 4x weekly
JFK-ATH A333 Daily
JFK-IST 764 Daily
JFK-SVO 763 Daily
JFK-KBP 764 5x weekly
JFK-PRG 763 Daily
JFK-BUD 763 Daily
JFK-TLV 744 Daily
JFK-AMM 763 5x weekly
JFK-CAI 763 Daily
JFK-ACC 763 5x weekly
JFK-ABV 763 3x weekly
JFK-DKR 75E 4x weekly

ATL-LHR 764 Daily
ATL-LGW A332 Daily
ATL-MAN 763 Daily
ATL-DUB 763 Daily
ATL-AMS A332 Daily
ATL-BRU 763 Daily
ATL-CDG A333 Daliy + 763 Daily
ATL-FRA 777 Daily
ATL-MUC 764 Daily
ATL-STR 763 Daily
ATL-DUS 763 Daily
ATL-ZRH 763 Daily
ATL-CPH 763 Daily
ATL-SVO 763 5x weekly
ATL-PRG 763 4x weekly
ATL-ATH 763 Daily
ATL-VCE 763 4-5x weekly
ATL-MXP 763 5x weekly
ATL-FCO A333 Daily
ATL-MAD 764 Daily
ATL-BCN 764 Daily
ATL-TLV 77E Daily
ATL-DXB 77L Daily
ATL-JNB 77L Daily
ATL-LOS 77E Daily
ATL-ACC 763 3x weekly

DTW-LHR 764 Daily
DTW-AMS 3x Daily A333 + 1 Daily A332
DTW-FRA 763 Daily
DTW-FCO A333 Daily

MSP-LHR 764 Daily
MSP-AMS A333 3x Daily
MSP-CDG 763 Daily

CVG-CDG 763 Daily

MEM-AMS 763 Daily

PDX-AMS A332 Daily

PHL-CDG 75E Daily

PIT-CDG 75E 5x weekly

EWR-AMS 763 Daily

BOS-AMS A333 Daily + A332 Daily

SEA-AMS A333 Daily + 763 3x weekly

SLC-CDG 763 Daily

AMS-BOM A332 Daily


"Deep" South America:

ATL-GRU 764 Daily
ATL-GIG 763 Daily
ATL-BSB / FOR 75E
ATL-EZE 763 Daily
ATL-SCL 763 Daily
ATL-LIM 764 Daily
JFK-GRU 763 5x weekly
LAX-GRU 763 3x weekly

Transpacific:

DTW-NRT 744 Daily
DTW-NGO 744 5-6x weekly
DTW-PVG 77E Daily
DTW-ICN 77E 5x weekly
DTW-HKG 77L 5x weekly
MSP-NRT 744 Daily
JFK-NRT 744 Daily
ATL-NRT 77L 10x weekly
SEA-NRT A333 Daily
SEA-KIX 763 Daily
SEA-PEK 763 5x weekly
PDX-NRT 763 Daily
SLC-NRT A332 5x weekly
SFO-NRT A332 Daily
LAX-NRT A332 Daily; 77L 4x weekly
LAX-SYD 77L Daily
HNL-NRT 744 2x Daily
HNL-KIX 744 Daily

I remember when the Delta timetable arrived in the mail that featured the Eiffel Tower on the cover. Delta was finally flying to Paris! That was what, about 25 years ago? It is amazing how fast this industry changes.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: BMI727
Posted 2009-12-01 11:08:18 and read 3918 times.



Quoting PDXBJV (Reply 36):
Well with that said then, what makes the A330 not appropriately sized, if it performs acceptably?

Nothing, just that the 763 may be more appropriately sized. There may be two things at play here. First, the reduction in seats may allow DL to get better yields and secondly and perhaps more importantly, the A330 can be placed on another route where its range or capacity was needed.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Flydeltasjets
Posted 2009-12-01 12:37:32 and read 3777 times.



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 41):



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 41):
A330's are not fenced. Fenced aircraft for NW are:

16x 747-400 and any subsequent direct replacement. e.g. 1:1 773ER for 744
18x 787-8 or "any comparable substitute". e.g. if DL were to take 777's in place of 787's, those new 777's would be fenced 100% to NW crews.

Fenced aircraft for DL are:

8x 777-200ER
8x 777-200LR, ships 7101 - 7108.
(Ships 7109 and 7110 will NOT be fenced and will be open-bid, seniority basis)

With respect, you are incorrect on 777 issue. All present and future deliveries of 777s are fenced until five years after SOC (Single Operating Certificate). If DAL were to take make additional orders of 777s as a replacement for 787s, there is almost certainly enough ambiguity in Bloch's ruling to result in further arbitration. DAL pilots would argue that an airplane already flown by Delta for years, and one for which DAL has orders and options in place, is hardly a NWA "replacement" for an airplane that has yet to be flown. Fencing DAL pilots off any future 777s is ludicrous. Conversely, the former NWA pilots would argue that new 777 orders would be a replacement for their 787s, and therefore subject to a fence on the NWA side.
Both arguments have merit, and I won't discuss them further here. I brought the issue up only for clarification. It is my hope and expectation that the DAL MEC will continue in the spirit that has made this merger a success so far and reach a conclusion acceptable to both interests.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2009-12-01 12:49:11 and read 3717 times.



Quoting JohnJ (Reply 62):
Back in KLM days MEM-AMS operated with a 763 half the year, so this is not without precedent.

KL used to fly ATL-AMS on a 763.

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Transpac787
Posted 2009-12-01 14:54:19 and read 3551 times.



Quoting Flydeltasjets (Reply 66):
With respect, you are incorrect on 777 issue.

No, I am not.

Surely you have a copy of the Seniority Integration Abitration ruling dated 08 December 2008, yes?? I'll reference page numbers then, for you.

Quoting Flydeltasjets (Reply 66):
All present and future deliveries of 777s are fenced until five years after SOC (Single Operating Certificate).

All existing ships and ships on order are fenced, that is all. See page 26 of 32 of the final Bloch Award for this.

Ships 7109 and 7110 were not yet converted to firm delivery dates and thus are protected by no fences.

Quoting Flydeltasjets (Reply 66):
If DAL were to take make additional orders of 777s as a replacement for 787s, there is almost certainly enough ambiguity in Bloch's ruling to result in further arbitration.

There is no ambiguity. 16x 777's to match 16x 744's. In addition to this, NW had 18x firm orders on 787's at the time. Regardless of actual aircraft type, these slots are fenced to NW crews. That can be read on pages 25 and 26 of 32.

Quoting Flydeltasjets (Reply 66):
DAL pilots would argue that an airplane already flown by Delta for years, and one for which DAL has orders and options in place,

Options are irrelevant. The 50x options on 787 were not fenced, the 2x options on 772LR's were not fenced. This can be read on page 24 of 32.

Quoting Flydeltasjets (Reply 66):
Fencing DAL pilots off any future 777s is ludicrous.

Giving DL pilots flying on NW ships is ludicrous. Had the situation been reversed, and 763ER's received fences, I don't think you'd be singing the same tune if those ships were retired and given to NW crews on 787's  Wink

Quoting Flydeltasjets (Reply 66):
I brought the issue up only for clarification.

As did I.  devil 

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: DiscoverCSG
Posted 2009-12-01 16:12:57 and read 3420 times.



Quoting Panamair (Reply 54):
DL 216 JFK 4:15pm DKR 4:45am+ Tu Th Sa Su 75E

DL 217 DKR 1:30pm JFK 6:15pm We Su 75E
DL 215 DKR 8:45am JFK 1:05pm Mo Fr 75E

This is an interesting schedule. Why is the return leg flown at different times on different days of the week?

Topic: RE: Additional DL S10 Long-Haul Sked Changes
Username: Flydeltasjets
Posted 2009-12-02 09:12:26 and read 2960 times.

Transpac,

You are misreading the award. The pages you reference are background material, ie: Bloch explaining his reasoning and addressing the arguments made. The end of the document contains the award. The fences are addressed in the paragraphs quoted below:



4. For the period of five (5) years beginning with the first bid period after the
issuance of the Single Operating Certificate (SOC), no pre-merger
Northwest pilot may be awarded or displaced to a vacancy on a B777
aircraft or category and no pre-merger Delta pilot may be awarded or
displaced to a B787 or B747 vacancy.
5. Should the merged company take delivery of any aircraft which is/are a
replacement of any aircraft covered by Paragraph 4., the captain positions
and, as applicable, the first officer positions on each such replacement aircraft will be allocated in accordance with the Paragraph 4. restrictions
on the type it is replacing.

Paragraph four is not at all ambiguous. He did not say a pre-merger 777, or that only 16 777s are included. He simply and clearly wrote 777s, 747s, and 787s. The types are fenced, not a set amount of those types.

Paragraph five is less clear, and will almost certainly lead to discussions down the road. I've already listed the arguments why. I don't understand your point on the 763s. Your example of retiring a type is not valid to this discussion, as we're not talking about retirements. We're talking about replacements for a plane that doesn't yet exist. Delta has stated publicly and privately their affection for the 777 and their intention to order more. If the 787 never flies and Delta cancels the order, are you suggesting that all future 777s should be given to pre-merger NWA guys? Again, my intention is not to argue this issue on the internet, I see both sides of the coin.

Transpac, I not only have a copy of the award, I was involved in its crafting. I won't tell you in what capacity I was involved, but I am intimately familiar with the award and the issues surrounding it. And, whether you choose to believe me or not, you are misreading the award.


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