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Topic: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: WorldTraveler
Posted 2010-02-02 14:22:12 and read 9663 times.

With all the talk about how DL can't compete in LAX transpac, it might be time to look at a few statistics.

DOT data for the 3rd quarter of 09 is available....

DL and UA each operated 2 transpac nonstop destinations. AA operates only to NRT.

DL/NW's total revenue to NRT was almost twice as much as UA's and almost three times larger than AA's. Further, DL/NW's average on the LAX-NRT segment was more than 15% higher than both AA and UA.

UA had more revenue to SYD than DL by a factor of about 50%.

When combined, DL's total transpac revenue from LAX is more than 31% higher than UA's and more than 3 times larger than AA's.

So much for the notion that DL can't compete at LAX... these numbers also make it pretty clear that DL has the potential to develop LAX to Asia much more than alot of people here want to acknowledge.

It is also interesting to note that despite JFK-NRT being a new route for DL and both AA and DL operated a 772ER, DL/NW had an average fare more than 10% higher than AA and almost 15% higher than CO from EWR. DL/NW's total onboard revenue was more than 40% more than AA's (who operated a 3 class aircraft) and more than 10% higher than CO's (who has the highest density 772ERs among US operators).

A quick check of other Asian routes shows merger synergies at DL/NW on the Pacific that translated into above average revenue performance.
Some will be surprised to note that DL's average fare on ATLPVG was higher than DL/NW from DTW or AA from ORD and slightly below CO from EWR. UA from ORD was the clear standout to PVG... but DL is clearly putting its PVG eggs into DTW where it can more effectively compete against UA at ORD.

These numbers - which occurred in the mdst of a downturn - indicate that DL will aggressively expand its presence in the Pacific using synergies from the DL/NW merger.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: OA412
Posted 2010-02-02 14:29:44 and read 9599 times.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Thread starter):
UA had more revenue to SYD than DL by a factor of about 50%.

Whoa that's a large gap. Obviously it's a new route and needs time to develop, but hopefully DL is working on closing the revenue gap with UA. Obviously, revenues should improve if/when the JV with VA is approved.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Thread starter):
It is also interesting to note that despite JFK-NRT being a new route for DL and both AA and DL operated a 772ER, DL/NW had an average fare more than 10% higher than AA and almost 15% higher than CO from EWR. DL/NW's total onboard revenue was more than 40% more than AA's (who operated a 3 class aircraft) and more than 10% higher than CO's (who has the highest density 772ERs among US operators).

Well that would explain the switch to the 744 on this route. It's also nice to see the naysayers who said that DL would be the bottom-feeder on this segment proven wrong. Things should only improve if JL joins Skyteam.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: Travelin man
Posted 2010-02-02 14:35:07 and read 9552 times.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Thread starter):
DL/NW's total revenue to NRT was almost twice as much as UA's and almost three times larger than AA's.

Do you have a link to the stats?

Since UA's LAX-NRT was operated by a 744 (and then swtiched to a 772 at some point last year), I am having a hard time understanding how DL/NW's revenue would be TWICE that of UA, since DL/NW has been operating a 744/332 (again, not sure of the exact aircraft type during the specified time frame of Q3 09).

Unless UA was operating half-empty to NRT?

Or do the revenue statistics not include connecting passengers on LAX-NRT (which would mean, of course, that UA would have "less" revenue, since they operate a bigger connecting operation at LAX than does DL/NW).

I have to say I am surprised about the LAX-NRT stats you provided.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: SESGDL
Posted 2010-02-02 14:35:22 and read 9553 times.

Good job for DL at LAX. In spite of LAX-GRU's lack of success, DL seems to have a solid foundation set up at LAX, despite quite a few recent missteps. I'm presuming there will be a few more (maybe) positive comments before this thread is hijacked and turned into an AA/DL, UA/DL, CO/DL thread.

Jeremy

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: DeltAirlines
Posted 2010-02-02 14:36:14 and read 9534 times.



Quoting OA412 (Reply 1):
Whoa that's a large gap. Obviously it's a new route and needs time to develop, but hopefully DL is working on closing the revenue gap with UA. Obviously, revenues should improve if/when the JV with VA is approved.

A large gap, but UA has several things going for it - (a) they are using a 747-400 (374 seats) vs. a 777-200LR (278 seats) - 34.5% more capacity; (b) United has 21 more premium seats on the 747, including an international F product; and (c) and likely a huge reason is that United has been on the LAX-SYD route for a very long time - they have a FF base in Australia, plus a large base in Los Angeles. Delta is the new guy who had absolutely nothing on the Sydney end. Just that historical presence would tip a large part of the scale to United.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2010-02-02 14:36:34 and read 9533 times.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Thread starter):
So much for the notion that DL can't compete at LAX... these numbers also make it pretty clear that DL has the potential to develop LAX to Asia much more than alot of people here want to acknowledge.

How, exactly, do the numbers demonstrate that? They show that DL is not (yet) competing successfully against UA on LAX-SYD and that DL is doing well on a route it has flown for decades. Neither data point is surprising.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: OA412
Posted 2010-02-02 14:41:48 and read 9488 times.



Quoting Travelin man (Reply 2):
Since UA's LAX-NRT was operated by a 744 (and then swtiched to a 772 at some point last year), I am having a hard time understanding how DL/NW's revenue would be TWICE that of UA, since DL/NW has been operating a 744/332 (again, not sure of the exact aircraft type during the specified time frame of Q3 09).

DL has also been operating a 744 LAX-NRT. They will switch to a mix of A332/772 this summer.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
They show that DL is not (yet) competing successfully against UA on LAX-SYD and that DL is doing well on a route it has flown for decades. Neither data point is surprising.

The LAX-NRT numbers, however, do show that DL can compete effectively on intercontinental routes contrary to the A.net myth that DL is always the bottom feeder in competitive international markets.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2010-02-02 14:47:23 and read 9436 times.



Quoting OA412 (Reply 6):
The LAX-NRT numbers, however, do show that DL can compete effectively on intercontinental routes

 checkmark  (although the smart aleck might retort that LAX-NRT isn't really Delta's route)

They do not, however, show potential to develop LAX.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: Travelin man
Posted 2010-02-02 14:49:16 and read 9414 times.



Quoting OA412 (Reply 6):
DL has also been operating a 744 LAX-NRT. They will switch to a mix of A332/772 this summer.

So I guess I still don't understand how it is possible that DL had TWICE the revenue of United, if they were flying the same planes (744s). Even if UA had a 772 and DL was flying the 744 during Q3, I wouldn't understand the revenue gap.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: WorldTraveler
Posted 2010-02-02 15:06:03 and read 9284 times.



Quoting Travelin man (Reply 2):
Since UA's LAX-NRT was operated by a 744 (and then swtiched to a 772 at some point last year), I am having a hard time understanding how DL/NW's revenue would be TWICE that of UA, since DL/NW has been operating a 744/332 (again, not sure of the exact aircraft type during the specified time frame of Q3 09).

First, NW's 744s hold more pax and NW/DL's average fare over the segment was almost 20% higher.
NW's LF was 4 points higher than UA's and 10 points higher than AA.

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 2):

Or do the revenue statistics not include connecting passengers on LAX-NRT

it includes all revenue that flows over the LAX-NRT segment - either connecting at LAX or NRT.... DL/NW simply carries a whole lot of valuable connecting traffic over NRT - despite what alot of people think.

BTW, DL/NW on LAX-NRT generates about as much revenue as UA does on SFO-NRT which is one of UA's highest revenue markets per flight.
In comparison, DTWNRT which is NW/DL's highest revenue market per flight generates about 40% more revenue than DL on LAXNRT - which makes DTWNRT one of the highest revenue flights in the US... and clearly explains why DL is willing to commit resources to expand DTW to Asia flying.

The fact that DL is doing as well as it is from JFK says that DL's future in Asia - even from the most competitive markets is very strong.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
(although the smart aleck might retort that LAX-NRT isn't really Delta's route)

the money went straight into DL's bank accounts...

It is precisely because of the revenue that NW generates to Japan that DL merged w/ them. DL will continue to aggressively grow Asia using the resources that DL has available to it now...

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2010-02-02 15:11:06 and read 9223 times.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):
the money went straight into DL's bank accounts...

It did - but how does that demonstrate an ability to grow LAX? Looks like DL is 1 for 2 on new long haul routes ex-LAX (1 for 3 if you count LAX-LHR).

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: USFlyer MSP
Posted 2010-02-02 15:20:28 and read 9161 times.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Thread starter):
DL/NW's total revenue to NRT was almost twice as much as UA's and almost three times larger than AA's. Further, DL/NW's average on the LAX-NRT segment was more than 15% higher than both AA and UA.

That is not a fair comparison! DL flows ALL of its LAX-Asia traffic over NRT while UA has its SFO hub that sees most Asia connections...plus UA codeshares on NH's LAX-NRT flights so UA pax have more choices than the sole UA flight. The LAX-NRT route serves different purposes for each airline and is hard to compare on an apples-to-apples basis.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: Superfly
Posted 2010-02-02 15:26:14 and read 9112 times.



Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 11):
That is not a fair comparison! DL flows ALL of its LAX-Asia traffic over NRT while UA has its SFO hub that sees most Asia connections...plus UA codeshares on NH's LAX-NRT flights so UA pax have more choices than the sole UA flight. The LAX-NRT route serves different purposes for each airline and is hard to compare on an apples-to-apples basis.

I was thinking the same.
Also, Delta's numbers are artificially inflated because of the Northwest Airlines takeover.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2010-02-02 15:30:08 and read 9062 times.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Thread starter):
Some will be surprised to note that DL's average fare on ATLPVG was higher than DL/NW from DTW or AA from ORD and slightly below CO from EWR. UA from ORD was the clear standout to PVG...

Yet most are not surprised to have their suspicions reconfirmed that you again are using the right data to come to the wrong conclusions 

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 11):
That is not a fair comparison! DL flows ALL of its LAX-Asia traffic over NRT while UA has its SFO hub that sees most Asia connections...plus UA codeshares on NH's LAX-NRT flights so UA pax have more choices than the sole UA flight. The LAX-NRT route serves different purposes for each airline and is hard to compare on an apples-to-apples basis.

 checkmark 

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: WorldTraveler
Posted 2010-02-02 15:42:09 and read 8965 times.



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 13):
Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 11):
That is not a fair comparison! DL flows ALL of its LAX-Asia traffic over NRT while UA has its SFO hub that sees most Asia connections...plus UA codeshares on NH's LAX-NRT flights so UA pax have more choices than the sole UA flight. The LAX-NRT route serves different purposes for each airline and is hard to compare on an apples-to-apples basis.


I'm so glad that you brought this up....
in fact, DL/NW and UA carried almost the same amount of passengers from LAX to Asia.. however, DL/NW got more than 15% more revenue driven by higher average fares.

So, UA does in fact carry traffic via SFO but DL gets higher quality revenue and still obtains more revenue.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 12):
Also, Delta's numbers are artificially inflated because of the Northwest Airlines takeover.

uh, no.
These are actually NW only numbers because NW operated the flight and it was reported by them. If you add DL ticketed revenue, the gap between UA and DL/NW widens by another 5%.

wanna try again or would you simply like to acknowledge that DL is in fact now the largest US transpac carrier at LAX?

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: Steex
Posted 2010-02-02 15:42:17 and read 8963 times.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):
It is precisely because of the revenue that NW generates to Japan that DL merged w/ them. DL will continue to aggressively grow Asia using the resources that DL has available to it now...

I think we all understand this to be the premise, the problem is that the data and analysis you presented does nothing to show that DL will be able to facilitate (let alone sustain) that aggressive growth.

The ultimate success of DL on LAX-SYD may be a signal of DL's ability to compete on intercontinental routes from LAX. However, LAX-NRT provides no such signal because, while new to the Delta banner specifically, it is not a new route at all since it just moved over from NW. It's strong performance is a display of the status quo, not of new competitiveness by DL at LAX.

Clearly this makes post-merger DL a stronger international carrier at LAX than pre-merger DL was, but it does nothing to indicate that DL would now be successful flying entirely new transpac routes from LAX. Mind you, I'm not saying that I don't think they could successfully start new routes - I think they probably can - but I don't think the particular data you've chosen demonstrates that.

[Edited 2010-02-02 15:44:04 by steex]

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: WorldTraveler
Posted 2010-02-02 15:50:22 and read 8896 times.



Quoting Steex (Reply 15):
The ultimate success of DL on LAX-SYD may be a signal of DL's ability to compete on intercontinental routes from LAX.

DL does need to succed in SYD and will given the Virgin partnership but SYD will not be indicative of what DL can do in Asia which is clearly where the strength of the NW merger comes from.
DL will build Asia from the west coast based on strength; Australia is being developed from a clean sheet of paper.

Quoting Steex (Reply 15):
LAX-NRT provides no such signal because, while new to the Delta banner specifically, it is not a new route at all since it just moved over from NW

it most certainly does demonstrate that DL is a very strong player at LAX to Asia... if they can generate almost twice the revenue as UA, they can clearly shuffle their revenue around on new flights.

BTW, if you add all of DL/NW's west coast flights (SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX) and compare them to all of UA's, DL/NW still has 70% of the revenue from these 4 cities to Asia despite the fact that UA has a hub at SFO and operates transpac revenue from 3 of the 4 cities NW/DL does.
The notion that UA is so far ahead of anyone else in the west coast to Asia market is clearly not supported by data.
Even in SFO, NW obtained 20% of the Asia revenue that UA did... not bad considering the size of UA's hub.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: MSPNWA
Posted 2010-02-02 15:55:30 and read 8859 times.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Thread starter):
UA had more revenue to SYD than DL by a factor of about 50%.

That's the fairest comparison in the stats, and it confirms what a.net has been saying all along. DL is going to have trouble with UA on that route.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Thread starter):
It is also interesting to note that despite JFK-NRT being a new route for DL and both AA and DL operated a 772ER . . .

That's not a "new" route for the "new" DL.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 14):
wanna try again or would you simply like to acknowledge that DL is in fact now the largest US transpac carrier at LAX?

Uh, that should be a given considering the combined the DL/NW network. It's not noteworthy.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: Steex
Posted 2010-02-02 15:57:11 and read 8845 times.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 16):

it most certainly does demonstrate that DL is a very strong player at LAX to Asia... if they can generate almost twice the revenue as UA, they can clearly shuffle their revenue around on new flights.

BTW, if you add all of DL/NW's west coast flights (SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX) and compare them to all of UA's, DL/NW still has 70% of the revenue from these 4 cities to Asia despite the fact that UA has a hub at SFO and operates transpac revenue from 3 of the 4 cities NW/DL does.
The notion that UA is so far ahead of anyone else in the west coast to Asia market is clearly not supported by data.
Even in SFO, NW obtained 20% of the Asia revenue that UA did... not bad considering the size of UA's hub.

I don't disagree with any of this, but I guess my point is I don't think DL is really in a position to do anything that NW wasn't already in a position to do. The success of those routes, as you mention, stood for NW before DL was in the picture. Given that NW hadn't expanded beyond NRT flights from these cities, I don't think DL's success with the same NRT flights is a clear signal that other Asia flights would be a slam dunk.

Of course, as you also mention, DL+NW has more resources than DL alone had and DL+NW seems to put more focus on diversifying the Asian flight portfolio than NW did alone. I think DL probably can be successful with well chosen Asian flying from the west coast (and frankly, NW likely could have been as well). I just don't happen to think the specific data at hand shows anything new.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: Superfly
Posted 2010-02-02 15:57:38 and read 8847 times.



Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 17):
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 14):
wanna try again or would you simply like to acknowledge that DL is in fact now the largest US transpac carrier at LAX?

Uh, that should be a given considering the combined the DL/NW network. It's not noteworthy.

 checkmark 

...and I'd still take United over Delta any day!  talktothehand 

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: WorldTraveler
Posted 2010-02-02 16:02:02 and read 8781 times.



Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 17):
That's the fairest comparison in the stats, and it confirms what a.net has been saying all along. DL is going to have trouble with UA on that route.

given that UA is using a larger a/c, is established on the route while DL is flying it for the first time, I don't think it portends trouble for DL at all. It means they have to work... but the Virgin Blue agreement will all of a sudden make DL and Virgin a larger carrier to Australia than UA.. that will surely affect customer choice and revenue.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 17):
That's not a "new" route for the "new" DL.

Since DL and NW both dropped the route and it hasn't been operated for several years, it is as new as any other route.
But you apparently missed the point that despite the fact that AA has flown it for years and CO has flown from EWR to NRT even longer, DL/NW managed to outperform both in just the first summer of operation.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 17):
Uh, that should be a given considering the combined the DL/NW network. It's not noteworthy.

i see you're relatively new on this board... you might want to go back and read what people have been saying about DL/NW's ability to compete in LAX against UA... the thinking around here is that UA can't be touched in LAX... the stats clearly say otherwise.

sounds like you aren't too fond of where your paycheck is coming from.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: USFlyer MSP
Posted 2010-02-02 16:09:42 and read 8740 times.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 20):
Since DL and NW both dropped the route and it hasn't been operated for several years, it is as new as any other route.

Considering it is now a hub to hub route, I don't know of anyone who expected JFK-NRT to perform poorly.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 20):
i see you're relatively new on this board... you might want to go back and read what people have been saying about DL/NW's ability to compete in LAX against UA... the thinking around here is that UA can't be touched in LAX... the stats clearly say otherwise.

As far as I can remember the consensus is that all US carriers perform poorly on LAX-ITNL routes. The foreign carriers dominate. The only reason UA has acceptable returns is because of their extensive domestic network out of LAX, something DL and AA cannot really match.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 20):
sounds like you aren't too fond of where your paycheck is coming from.

Perhaps he is not a fanboy who has mastered the art of "spin"

[Edited 2010-02-02 16:10:16]

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: AAExecPlat
Posted 2010-02-02 16:18:17 and read 8643 times.

Can someone please post a link to the stats if they have it handy? I can't find the specific data for DL at LAX. Beyond that, I don't understand what the fuss is all about...DL runs two flights daily (LAX+SYD) and are therefore the biggest baddest US airline over the Pacific? Nevermind, Qantas has five flights daily on a mix of 744 and A380.

I just don't know if there's enough data on DL to suggest they can somehow rule LAX at some point in the future. That said, they should certainly try.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: FL787
Posted 2010-02-02 16:21:09 and read 8621 times.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 20):
the thinking around here is that UA can't be touched in LAX

I guarantee you can't come up with a quote of someone saying something even remotely close to this. But whatever it takes to talk about how DL will soon control all four oceans and seven continents...

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
They do not, however, show potential to develop LAX.

This thread shows us nothing besides what we already knew: LAX-NRT is a good DL/NW route, DL has work to do in SYD, and no airline can turn threads on A.net into heated arguments faster than DL.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: UnitedTristar
Posted 2010-02-02 16:21:18 and read 8621 times.



Quoting AAExecPlat (Reply 22):
Can someone please post a link to the stats if they have it handy? I can't find the specific data for DL at LAX. Beyond that, I don't understand what the fuss is all about...DL runs two flights daily (LAX+SYD) and are therefore the biggest baddest US airline over the Pacific? Nevermind, Qantas has five flights daily on a mix of 744 and A380.

I just don't know if there's enough data on DL to suggest they can somehow rule LAX at some point in the future. That said, they should certainly try.

he "claims" that they are the largest US carrier, but he cannot produce where he is coming up with these numbers

-m

 airplane 

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2010-02-02 16:21:59 and read 8879 times.

Somebody want to run data on who the largest trans-Atlantic U.S. carrier from LAX is? Is it UA with its daily to Heathrow or AA with its daily to Heathrow? Does it really matter?

[Edited 2010-02-02 16:26:31]

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2010-02-02 16:28:27 and read 8816 times.

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 21):
The only reason UA has acceptable returns is because of their extensive domestic network out of LAX, something DL and AA cannot really match.

If AA can't match it, why is AA mainline the largest airline at LAX? Embraers to Bakersfield and Carslbad are great and all, but its not really important feed. I am really curious to see what happens in the next few years, because if I'm not mistaken Skywest plans on parking its props, and even with RJ replacements possibly coming, a lot of those prop markets aren't suitable for high-cost RJ service.

[Edited 2010-02-02 16:37:56]

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: AAExecPlat
Posted 2010-02-02 16:29:16 and read 8847 times.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 25):
Somebody want to run data on who the largest trans-Atlantic U.S. carrier from LAX is? Is it UA with its daily to Heathrow or AA with its daily to Heathrow? Does it really matter?

Bingo. That was my point a well.

SP

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: WorldTraveler
Posted 2010-02-02 16:29:17 and read 8871 times.



Quoting Steex (Reply 18):
I don't disagree with any of this, but I guess my point is I don't think DL is really in a position to do anything that NW wasn't already in a position to do.



Quoting Steex (Reply 18):
Of course, as you also mention, DL+NW has more resources than DL alone had and DL+NW seems to put more focus on diversifying the Asian flight portfolio than NW did alone.

now you're talking.... and DL+NW is large enough in LAX to begin to develop routes which NW could not... the DL twin engine a/c and DL's use of the 330 will be enough to open up new routes that NW couldn't or wouldn't... that is the strength of the merger.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):

...and I'd still take United over Delta any day!

you would be in a shrinking pool, then.

You might also be interested in knowing that DL/NW increased its revenue relative to UA on all transpac routes by about 5% between 2008 and 2009 - also indicative of the strength of the merger.

BTW, you do realize that DL/NW is larger in terms of revenue to Asia than UA is, don't you, and that is even before you consider DL's larger presence in south and southwest Asia?

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 21):
Considering it is now a hub to hub route, I don't know of anyone who expected JFK-NRT to perform poorly.

If you had asked people a year ago if DL would pass up both AA and CO, no one would have believe it... and I'm not sure I expected it to happen either.

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 21):
As far as I can remember the consensus is that all US carriers perform poorly on LAX-ITNL routes. The foreign carriers dominate

again, also a myth. DL's average fare on LAX-NRT as a segment is more than 10% higher than what UA gets on SFO-NRT.

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 21):
The only reason UA has acceptable returns is because of their extensive domestic network out of LAX, something DL and AA cannot really match

perhaps you missed that DL OUTPERFORMS UA in terms of both average fare and total onboard revenue not only on LAX-NRT but on all transpac services despite DL's "Lack" of a domestic presence at LAX.

Quoting AAExecPlat (Reply 22):
Can someone please post a link to the stats if they have it handy?

it is DOT data but you need access to a program to manipulate it.
The best place to see it is in Aviation Daily - they take snapshots of various routes and publish them fairly regularly.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: AAExecPlat
Posted 2010-02-02 16:33:56 and read 8779 times.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 28):
it is DOT data but you need access to a program to manipulate it.
The best place to see it is in Aviation Daily - they take snapshots of various routes and publish them fairly regularly.

Thanks. What program do you use? Is it freeware or payware?

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2010-02-02 16:34:33 and read 8782 times.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 14):
in fact, DL/NW and UA carried almost the same amount of passengers from LAX to Asia.. however, DL/NW got more than 15% more revenue driven by higher average fares.

So basically what you're telling us is that nothing has changed, except now DL is losing money on SYD. Congrats.

Quoting FL787 (Reply 23):
LAX-NRT is a good DL/NW route, DL has work to do in SYD, and no airline can turn threads on A.net into heated arguments faster than DL.

 checkmark 

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 21):

Considering it is now a hub to hub route, I don't know of anyone who expected JFK-NRT to perform poorly.

And I bet DL wasn't doing any favors for CO on the NRT end either...

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: Travelin man
Posted 2010-02-02 16:42:07 and read 8668 times.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):
First, NW's 744s hold more pax and NW/DL's average fare over the segment was almost 20% higher.
NW's LF was 4 points higher than UA's and 10 points higher than AA.

I still don't see the math adding up.

DL 744 = 403 seats
UA 744 = 374 seats

I didn't see any load factors posted, so I'll have to use assumptions.

If DL is getting 80% load factor and UA is getting a 76% load factor, that's an average of 322 seats going out full on DL, and 284 seats going out full on UA. Even with your stated 20% average fare premium on DL, that does not equal DL getting twice the revenue as UA. What am I missing here? Real numbers would be helpful, I guess.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: STT757
Posted 2010-02-02 16:43:07 and read 8678 times.



Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 11):
That is not a fair comparison! DL flows ALL of its LAX-Asia traffic over NRT while UA has its SFO hub that sees most Asia connections...plus UA codeshares on NH's LAX-NRT flights so UA pax have more choices than the sole UA flight. The LAX-NRT route serves different purposes for each airline and is hard to compare on an apples-to-apples basis.

Nicely put.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 28):
If you had asked people a year ago if DL would pass up both AA and CO, no one would have believe it... and I'm not sure I expected it to happen either.

A year ago CO was leaving Skyteam, lets see what the new Trans-Pacific joint venture with NH and UA do for CO's NRT flights.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: UnitedTristar
Posted 2010-02-02 16:48:38 and read 8623 times.

According to http://www.transtats.bts.gov/ for first 7 months of 2009 for LAX pax (pulled based on T100 Market Data)

Carrier - Month - Domestic - Intl

NW - 1 - 65K - 11K
NW - 2 - 58K - 10K
NW - 3 - 72K - 11K
NW - 4 - 76K - 7K
NW - 5 - 83K - 6K
NW - 6 - 90K - 10K
NW - 7 - 108K - 11K

DL - 1 - 145K - 9K
DL - 2 - 130K - 8K
DL - 3 - 166K - 8K
DL - 4 - 163K - 8K
DL - 5 - 161K - 6K
DL - 6 - 176K - 11K
DL - 7 - 191K - 22K

UA - 1 - 240K - 31K
UA - 2 - 239K - 24K
UA - 3 - 293K - 28K
UA - 4 - 298K - 29K
UA - 5 - 297K - 28K
UA - 6 - 326K - 35K
UA - 7 - 344K - 38K

-m

 airplane 

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: Laxintl
Posted 2010-02-02 16:55:52 and read 8596 times.

I'm not too sure what the gittyness is or the point of this post really.

Yes Delta assumed NWA's long running Tokyo flight, and commenced a SYD service which still has to prove itself in the long run.
Two flights certainly dont make for some miracle, let alone a solid advertising slogan such as "LAX largest US Transpac Carrier"  

Btw - lets not forget back Delta was indeed at one time the largest US carrier to Asia from LAX before. Something that did not help much when it came to fold its cards and walkaway.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: DeltaL1011man
Posted 2010-02-02 17:03:05 and read 8490 times.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Thread starter):
but DL is clearly putting its PVG eggs into DTW where it can more effectively compete against UA at ORD.

And hopefully when DL gets the rights back in sept. ATL-PVG will be coming back. Lets hope this time(if they don't try to move it) that fuel doesn't rise and then we have one of the worst econs in years. I would like to see the route get a fair shot.

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 2):
Since UA's LAX-NRT was operated by a 744 (and then swtiched to a 772 at some point last year), I am having a hard time understanding how DL/NW's revenue would be TWICE that of UA, since DL/NW has been operating a 744/332 (again, not sure of the exact aircraft type during the specified time frame of Q3 09).

DL has only run a 744 on it.

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 11):
That is not a fair comparison! DL flows ALL of its LAX-Asia traffic over NRT while UA has its SFO hub that sees most Asia connections...plus UA codeshares on NH's LAX-NRT flights so UA pax have more choices than the sole UA flight. The LAX-NRT route serves different purposes for each airline and is hard to compare on an apples-to-apples basis.

UA has flow via NRT and DL codeshares on KEs LAX-NRT flight.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 17):
Uh, that should be a given considering the combined the DL/NW network. It's not noteworthy.

How so? Most of NWs network has snet PAXs via Japan.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 33):
A year ago CO was leaving Skyteam, lets see what the new Trans-Pacific joint venture with NH and UA do for CO's NRT flights.

with what aircraft?
And i have yet to see the pilots aprove any JV/ATI. The TATL JV is being held up because of this......

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: Laxintl
Posted 2010-02-02 17:08:29 and read 8458 times.



Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 34):
According to http://www.transtats.bts.gov/ for first 7 months of 2009 for LAX pax (pulled based on T100 Market Data)

I assume you are looking for LAX totals?

If so here they are for Jan-Dec 2009.

United(incl UAX)
Dom - 9,536,557
Intl - 793,564

Delta
Dom - 4,030,782
Intl - 245,262

NWA
Dom - 2,019,333
Intl - 246,230

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: OA412
Posted 2010-02-02 17:08:59 and read 8441 times.



Quoting FL787 (Reply 23):
and no airline can turn threads on A.net into heated arguments faster than DL.

Indeed. And shock/horror, I'm going to say that both sides are partly at fault for that. There I said it.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: Commavia
Posted 2010-02-02 17:09:02 and read 8478 times.

I don't know why you guys are even arguing.

Delta is now the largest U.S. airline from LAX to Asia, which means that soon they could be flying nonstop from Tokyo to Sydney, and also means that they are succeeding in Brazil while other, larger, more established airlines are failing, which means that they can and will succeed everywhere.

It's obvious that no U.S. airline can be, or ever will be, Delta. No U.S. airline will ever measure up, no U.S. airline will ever have an original idea or novel approach, and no U.S. airline will ever be able to succeed in any market anywhere unless Delta is also able to succeed - bigger and better - in the same market. Delta's success is guaranteed, their innovation omnipresent, and their impact limitless on their industry. They are - in a word - it.

It's really simple, guys - come on. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go ready myself for the upcoming thread on how Delta is going to acquire Alaska, take over JAL, rule the North Atlantic, apply for - and win - upcoming Brazil frequencies, or turn LaGuardia into a profitable hub. I'll catch up with you guys later.

 sarcastic 

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: UnitedTristar
Posted 2010-02-02 17:10:17 and read 8425 times.



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 37):
I assume you are looking for LAX totals?

If so here they are for Jan-Dec 2009.

United(incl UAX)
Dom - 9,536,557
Intl - 793,564

Delta
Dom - 4,030,782
Intl - 245,262

NWA
Dom - 2,019,333
Intl - 246,230

the data I was looking at was missing the international numbers for months 8 - 10 and there was not data for 11/12

-m

 airplane 

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: LACA773
Posted 2010-02-02 17:13:20 and read 8400 times.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):
First, NW's 744s hold more pax and NW/DL's average fare over the segment was almost 20% higher.
NW's LF was 4 points higher than UA's and 10 points higher than AA.

Where can we view LFs for all the carriers in the LAX-NRT market?

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 11):
That is not a fair comparison! DL flows ALL of its LAX-Asia traffic over NRT while UA has its SFO hub that sees most Asia connections...plus UA codeshares on NH's LAX-NRT flights so UA pax have more choices than the sole UA flight. The LAX-NRT route serves different purposes for each airline and is hard to compare on an apples-to-apples basis.

I beleive DL also codeshares on KE's daily 772 LAX-NRT flight.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 36):
DL has only run a 744 on it.

No. They have utilized the 332 and 772 for a period of time last Spring. This route will see the 744 go away this coming Summer schedule with the 332 flying the route daily and an additional flight on a 772, I believe it's 4x a week.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: Peanuts
Posted 2010-02-02 17:32:34 and read 8313 times.



Quoting Superfly (Reply 12):
Also, Delta's numbers are artificially inflated because of the Northwest Airlines takeover.

Huh? Artificially?
It's one and the same airline.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):
...and I'd still take United over Delta any day!

"Powerful" input. That just confirms it's just a pissing contest for some posters on here...with no rationale.



If you look at the facts, the general statements regarding DL is "weak" here and there are going to be true, but only to a limited extent. As for other US carriers, AA, UA, CO mainly, they also have MAJOR weak points in their network. There is no way around it guys, considering how large the US is. (heck, Pan Am wasn't even a major domestic player)

The signals were already given by DL itself that LAX is being tinkered with. Even if they close GRU for now, does it mean they failed? Doubtful. They are just getting started.

Quoting Steex (Reply 18):
The success of those routes, as you mention, stood for NW before DL was in the picture. Given that NW hadn't expanded beyond NRT flights from these cities, I don't think DL's success with the same NRT flights is a clear signal that other Asia flights would be a slam dunk.

Actually, maybe not a slam dunk right away but what you will see is DL/NW synergizing. It's the whole point of a merger.

DL will "build" Asia from LAX based on the success off the NRT route.

DL will hold on to SYD. They've planted there flag in LAX with this route. With another (different this time   ) international LAX build up by DL, together with SEA, we may see DL put a squeeze on UA.
In light of JAL and what may happen, what else do some of you expect DL to do? Roll over? Some of you need a wake up call.
Start thinking "Big 3" alliances from now on. If SkyTeam wants to do anything to balance out with StarAlliance on the westcoast, they have no choice but to go on the offensive. Both in SEA and LAX.

Quoting FL787 (Reply 23):
no airline can turn threads on A.net into heated arguments faster than DL.

Anyone that "rocks" the boat will get that. I just did some reading on DL's history and you just have to hand it to them. The "resistance" certain DL "supporters" get on here only is natural. The "established", "chosen ones" carriers are going to feel a little heat. The more DL gets "mocked", the more it will propel them I bet. Be careful with certain statements.
I think CO has seen the light a bit in EWR with their lightning fast cabin upgrades to LHR.

For me personally to truly "respect" DL as a carrier with serious intentions will hinge on: SYD. It is not the most important route on the planet, but if SkyTeam can find a way to nudge in between OW and StarAlliance, it would be a job well done.
Of any carrier I read about in the US, DL is definitely stirring things up. Any airline nut has got to appreciate that.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2010-02-02 17:39:17 and read 8237 times.



Quoting Peanuts (Reply 42):
DL will "build" Asia from LAX based on the success off the NRT route.

But, again, how can we know that?

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: DeltaL1011man
Posted 2010-02-02 17:43:21 and read 8225 times.



Quoting LACA773 (Reply 41):
No. They have utilized the 332 and 772 for a period of time last Spring. This route will see the 744 go away this coming Summer schedule with the 332 flying the route daily and an additional flight on a 772, I believe it's 4x a week.

not in Q3, again DL only ran the 744 on LAX-NRT.  

Quoting WorldTraveler (Thread starter):
DOT data for the 3rd quarter of 09 is available....

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: LACA773
Posted 2010-02-02 17:46:43 and read 8171 times.



Quoting Peanuts (Reply 42):
DL will hold on to SYD. They've planted there flag in LAX with this route. With another (different this time ) international LAX build up by DL, together with SEA, we may see DL put a squeeze on UA.
In light of JAL and what may happen, what else do some of you expect DL to do? Roll over? Some of you need a wake up call

Something else that people seem to have forgotten is how much UA has pulled back @ LAX in general.


JL will play a very big part in this regarding the future depending on if they go with Sky Team or if they stay with One World.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: FlyPNS1
Posted 2010-02-02 17:57:54 and read 8107 times.



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 30):

So basically what you're telling us is that nothing has changed, except now DL is losing money on SYD. Congrats.

Amen. It's the usual propaganda from DL's own version of Baghdad Bob. Even worse, the data source he is using is highly questionable as it depends on how carriers choose to apportion revenue.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Thread starter):
Some will be surprised to note that DL's average fare on ATLPVG was higher than DL/NW from DTW or AA from ORD and slightly below CO from EWR.

I would certainly hope the average fare is higher given the route is hundreds of miles longer. Even worse, DL chose to cancel the route indicating that getting a higher average fare doesn't really mean squat.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: WorldTraveler
Posted 2010-02-02 18:10:34 and read 8027 times.



Quoting LACA773 (Reply 41):


I beleive DL also codeshares on KE's daily 772 LAX-NRT flight.

yes... but DOT stats use the operating carrier... DL doesn't get to count the KE passengers.

Quoting AAExecPlat (Reply 29):
payware?



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 25):
Somebody want to run data on who the largest trans-Atlantic U.S. carrier from LAX is? Is it UA with its daily to Heathrow or AA with its daily to Heathrow? Does it really matter?

according to you, it does if it's Brazil... apparently it doesn't matter if AA isn't at the top of the heap.
I have no problem w/ acknowledging what AA is doing... but I also will call out statements that are made about how profitable an operation is when statistics clearly say that any carrier is not getting enough money to pay the basic bills.

Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 24):
he "claims" that they are the largest US carrier, but he cannot produce where he is coming up with these numbers

it's DOT data and will be released on an aggregate basis before long... keep your eyes looking for it.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 30):
And I bet DL wasn't doing any favors for CO on the NRT end either

Because of the Japanese treaty, CO was able to codeshare on NW's flights but DL was not even after NW was owned by DL....

Quoting STT757 (Reply 33):
A year ago CO was leaving Skyteam, lets see what the new Trans-Pacific joint venture with NH and UA do for CO's NRT flights.

and they should.... but remember for years that CO said they weren't interested in alliances... apparently they released they couldn't compete w/ far larger carriers who were part of much deeper alliances.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 39):
Delta is now the largest U.S. airline from LAX to Asia, which means that soon they could be flying nonstop from Tokyo to Sydney, and also means that they are succeeding in Brazil while other, larger, more established airlines are failing, which means that they can and will succeed everywhere.

now, now, now.
The whole point of this thread was to use gov't issued data to show what DL is at LAX and dispel some of the a.net myths about who does well in what markets... there are way too many generalizations on here w/ no supporting data.

When DL generates as much revenue from the single flight it obtained w/ the NW merger, you can bet they will use that wealth to develop new routes.

For years we heard that AA would go after first NW's Pacific routes and then UA's. Now that both of those seem to be off the table, the talk was that AA didn't need either NW or UA's Pacific operation and they were quite fine just codesharing w/ their partners. Now that AA is about ready to lose its largest Asian partner, we're waiting for the next "strategy" that a.netters will come up w/ for AA to be a viable player in Asia.

DL may or may not become the largest carrier to/from the moon but it doesn't change the fact that DL did seize some important strategic opportunities that others did not; your inability to acknowledge that DL - or anyone else - has succeeded where AA - or anyone else has failed - seems troubling if you want us to believe that you can talk about airline strategy.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 45):
JL will play a very big part in this regarding the future depending on if they go with Sky Team or if they stay with One World.

they might.... but DL still is a very large player to Asia and that won't change regardless of what JL does.... DL is not going to fold up its tent and walk away even if JL partners w/ AA.

But JL WON"T partner w/ AA. They know full well they cannot compete w/ NH who is allied w/ UA by choosing AA as a partner. It's that simple.... and it only makes it easier for DL to expand in Asia....

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2010-02-02 18:16:08 and read 7968 times.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 47):
there are way too many generalizations on here w/ no supporting data.

Like this one?

Quoting WorldTraveler (Thread starter):
DL has the potential to develop LAX to Asia much more than alot of people here want to acknowledge.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: FlyPNS1
Posted 2010-02-02 18:19:34 and read 7953 times.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 47):
When DL generates as much revenue from the single flight it obtained w/ the NW merger, you can bet they will use that wealth to develop new routes.

It's only wealth if the revenue exceeds the cost to operate. A basic principle you don't seem to grasp.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: Laxintl
Posted 2010-02-02 18:22:52 and read 7949 times.

Since we are talking about LAX, I was just asked for a rundown on the top carrier passenger totals and revenue operations at the airport in 2009.

1. United/UAX - 10,330,121pax / 135,356 flights
2. American/AE - 9,333,854 / 86,309
3. Southwest - 7,863,678 / 79,665
4. Delta - 4,276,044 / 26,017
5. Alaska/Horizon - 3,191,836 / 31,844
6 .NWA - 2,265,563 / 15,103
7. Continental - 2,236,960 / 14,687
8. US Airways - 1,984,796 / 16,638
9. Virgin America - 1,663,532 / 14,271

Top Intl carriers were;
1. Qantas - 1,219,954
2. Mexicana - 1,087,138
3. Air Canada - 820,416
4. Korean Air - 670,688
5. Air NZ - 652,582

[Edited 2010-02-02 18:58:15 by laxintl]

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: STT757
Posted 2010-02-02 19:11:48 and read 7652 times.



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 36):
with what aircraft?

The aircraft they are currently flying to NRT.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 47):
and they should.... but remember for years that CO said they weren't interested in alliances... apparently they released they couldn't compete w/ far larger carriers who were part of much deeper alliances.

Well as Jeff said they are now in a real Alliance with the biggest airline in Europe (LH), the best airline in Japan etc..

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: OA412
Posted 2010-02-02 19:16:49 and read 7613 times.



Quoting STT757 (Reply 53):
Well as Jeff said they are now in a real Alliance with the biggest airline in Europe (LH), the best airline in Japan etc..

Last I checked, Skyteam is also a real alliance.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: STT757
Posted 2010-02-02 19:24:20 and read 7563 times.



Quoting OA412 (Reply 54):
Last I checked, Skyteam is also a real alliance.

How can it be an "alliance" when one of the members (DL) is trying to kill you and steal business away, the alliance CO is in now is made up of superior airlines who want CO to succeed.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2010-02-02 19:27:31 and read 7557 times.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 47):
Because of the Japanese treaty, CO was able to codeshare on NW's flights but DL was not even after NW was owned by DL....

I'll just add "codeshares" to the list of things you don't understand.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 47):
The whole point of this thread was to use gov't issued data to show what DL is at LAX and dispel some of the a.net myths about who does well in what markets..

What mythS? NW had a high average fare for LAXNRT before, during, and after DL, driven in part by a large amount of beyond NRT flow. The only new piece of information here is that they're sucking it on SYD, which everyone figured anyway.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 47):
there are way too many generalizations on here w/ no supporting data.

You should wear this on a sign around your neck 

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: OA412
Posted 2010-02-02 19:27:54 and read 7537 times.



Quoting STT757 (Reply 55):
How can it be an "alliance" when one of the members (DL) is trying to kill you and steal business away, the alliance CO is in now is made up of superior airlines who want CO to succeed.

You really think that CO wasn't trying to take business away from DL? It's called business. As to DL trying to kill CO, give me a break. Those are Smisek's PR talking points and nothing else.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: RoyalService
Posted 2010-02-02 19:32:34 and read 7484 times.

Long ago it used to be a battle between Eastern and Delta, at least here in Atlanta. OH HOW I MISS THOSE DAYS! For a long time I used to scream, Down With Eastern! Then when it was gone, I had nothing to do. I actually lost interest in the airline industry.

Now, more and more, I see this fight brewing between Continental fans and Delta fans.

God I love A.net!!!!

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: OA412
Posted 2010-02-02 19:35:16 and read 7464 times.



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 56):
The only new piece of information here is that they're sucking it on SYD, which everyone figured anyway.

As far as I remember DL management themselves expected the route to run at a loss in the beginning. Whether or not they can turn it into a profitable route, who knows at this point.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: Gemuser
Posted 2010-02-02 19:43:14 and read 7401 times.



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 50):
Since we are talking about LAX, I was just asked for a rundown on the top carrier passenger totals and revenue operations at the airport in 2009.

Can you break all the US airlines pax numbers down into international & domestic, if possible, please?

It seems from the numbers in replies 37 & 50 that the combined uplift of international pax on UA, NW & DL just managed to shade QFs numbers by just 65,102 (<5%).

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: DeltaL1011man
Posted 2010-02-02 19:50:05 and read 7365 times.



Quoting STT757 (Reply 55):

How can it be an "alliance" when one of the members (DL) is trying to kill you and steal business away, the alliance CO is in now is made up of superior airlines who want CO to succeed.

So if UA and CO both have a hub in NYC you don't think they would be going at it. Oh and FYI, 95% of the shots that were taken were shots from CO. I can remember many "Guess who does XXX, not Delta" adds from CO. So save the pitty party alright?

Quoting OA412 (Reply 57):

You really think that CO wasn't trying to take business away from DL? It's called business. As to DL trying to kill CO, give me a break. Those are Smisek's PR talking points and nothing else.

wait, everything that comes out of CO is right, period. Jeesh OA i thought you knew this  duck  duck 

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: STT757
Posted 2010-02-02 19:54:17 and read 7314 times.



Quoting Peanuts (Reply 42):
I think CO has seen the light a bit in EWR with their lightning fast cabin upgrades to LHR.

What ever the exact opposite meaning of "lightning fast" is would apply to DL's JFK redevelopment.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: Laxintl
Posted 2010-02-02 19:58:30 and read 7323 times.



Quoting Gemuser (Reply 60):
Can you break all the US airlines pax numbers down into international & domestic, if possible, please?

Sure, here you go.

Alaska/Horizon
Dom - 2,194,258
Intl - 997,578

American/AE
Dom - 8,841,287
Intl - 492,567

Continental
Dom - 2,234,808
Intl - 2,152

Delta
Dom - 4,030,782
Intl - 245,262

NWA
Dom - 2,019,333
Intl - 246,230

United/UAX
Dom - 9,536,557
Intl - 793,564

Southwest, US Airways, Virgin America were all 100% domestic.

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: Toobz
Posted 2010-02-02 20:49:32 and read 7049 times.

Can folks just be happy for an airline that's doing good!? it doesn't matter if your a CO AA US AY BA VS UA fan. I'm a DL fan sure, but I've always given praise to other airlines doing good or bettering themselves..seems like anytime something postive comes out..regardless of airline..there's always the naysayers!! god it gets tiring. so DL does good from LAX to Asia. give praise. God knows they have shitty routes as well..ie SYD.
Thanks WT for the good news

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2010-02-02 20:55:29 and read 7053 times.

Well Ill be! Who would have guessed. A whole thread dedicated to DL grandstanding over 2 destination at LAX. Its like Christmas came early.  

When DL is flying to China, HKG, South East Asia, or secondary cities in Japan from LAX, then Ill be impressed.

Dont bust out the Astroglide just yet.  

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2010-02-02 21:57:20 and read 6594 times.



Quoting OA412 (Reply 59):

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 56):
The only new piece of information here is that they're sucking it on SYD, which everyone figured anyway.

As far as I remember DL management themselves expected the route to run at a loss in the beginning. Whether or not they can turn it into a profitable route, who knows at this point.

Which is perfectly acceptable. It's the same thing that American, for example, is doing with its new Brazil routes - taking losses for long-term gain.

Now, WordTraveller, what's the difference?

Topic: RE: DL At LAX The Largest US Transpac Carrier
Username: ManuCH
Posted 2010-02-02 22:31:12 and read 6378 times.

This thread has turned into a name calling fest among a few members, therefore it is being locked.

Any additional posts that are made to this thread after this post will be removed for housekeeping purposes, as this may happen due to a short system lag.


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