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Topic: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: LoneStarMike
Posted 2010-02-18 08:14:20 and read 20150 times.

Just breaking.

Emergency crews are racing to reports of a plane crash near MoPac and Highway 183. KVUE News has a crew on the way.

http://www.kvue.com/

They showed aerial footage about 5 minutes ago. It's right by the freeway. The building hit was the Echelon (sp?) Building at 9430 Research Blvd. Lots of smoke, so it's hard to tell but it looks like part of the building and the frontage road might be affected. Traffic was still moving on Highway 183, although at a snail's pace.

LoneStarMike

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: scouseflyer
Posted 2010-02-18 08:29:04 and read 20081 times.

So is this near the airport or has something gone horribly wrong?

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: F9Animal
Posted 2010-02-18 08:29:15 and read 20085 times.

Looks like FBI building. Oh boy... Not good. Reports say it was a single engine plane. Terror attack?

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: flyinryan99
Posted 2010-02-18 08:33:41 and read 20033 times.

Quote:
Tucker Thurman was driving to work on the U.S. 183 flyover near MoPac Boulevard (Loop 1) when he said he saw a small plane, very low, flying over the highway. He said he saw it then bank heavily to the right before heading into the building.

“There was a huge fireball. It right into the building,” Thurman said

This doesn't sound good especially if it was the FBI building.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: LoneStarMike
Posted 2010-02-18 08:36:06 and read 19944 times.

It's not near the airport. It's out in the NW part of Austin along Highway 183 (Research Blvd.) near the interchange of Mopac - one of the city's busiest interchanges. It's near the Arboretum for those familiar with Austin. Looks to be a 3-4 story glass office building - one of several. KVUE says Piper Cherokee 150 seating 4 people per an eyewitness who is a pilot. Everyone interviewed says the plane did not seem to be in any kind of distress. They say either the pilot may have been incapacitated or it could have been deliberate. And yes, they're just now mentioning that the FBI had offices there, too. This is a very dense area developmennt-wise both commercial and residental.

BTW, KVUE is the local ABC affiliate here in Austin. Their studios are right around the corner and they seem to have the best coverage.

Wait...now saying all evacuated from Office and they think it is an accident.

LoneStarMike

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: bigphilnyc
Posted 2010-02-18 08:38:47 and read 19902 times.

That's a big fire for a single-engine.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: LoneStarMike
Posted 2010-02-18 08:43:45 and read 19811 times.

Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 3):
This doesn't sound good especially if it was the FBI building.

OK now they are saying that the FBI did not have offices in the building. The IRS had offices in the complex but not in the particular building that was hit.

LoneStarMike

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: boeingfever777
Posted 2010-02-18 08:44:10 and read 19793 times.

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 1):
So is this near the airport or has something gone horribly wrong?

No. This is North of the Airport.

Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 3):
This doesn't sound good especially if it was the FBI building.

Again no, the FBI and ICE are on scene but do not have offices here. This is a private company that leases space to the IRS & other companies.

All IRS employees account for. AFD and APD are evacuating other buildings around back to Jollyville Road. APD is also shutting down US183 & Mopac Expressway inter-change.



First eyewitness account is a Commercial Airline pilot and said the plane was not having engine trouble and it hit very fast and hard.

[Edited 2010-02-18 08:53:52]

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: fxramper
Posted 2010-02-18 08:47:04 and read 19718 times.

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/conte...say_a_plane.html?srcTrk=RTR_240839

No news on the a/c type yet...

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: HeeseokKoo
Posted 2010-02-18 08:49:01 and read 19689 times.

It's very very far from the airport. Maybe plane was in a problem, so the pilot wanted to make emergency landing on highway? But there are so many ramps and intersections, so it might be very hard to do that, not to mention too many cars. It's near an intersection of two local highways, and ramps at the intersection are like 4-5 layers.

Hopefully no fatals involved...

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: 71Zulu
Posted 2010-02-18 08:53:57 and read 19616 times.

Somebody on FOX just said a Fedex 208 Caravan is "delayed".

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: 0NEWAIR0
Posted 2010-02-18 08:57:17 and read 19506 times.

There appears to be a LOT of damage and smoke for a "small plane"

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: boeingfever777
Posted 2010-02-18 08:57:21 and read 19517 times.

Reporting a Piper Cherokee 150 and another pilot called in saying it sounded and looked as if the plane was a full power when it impacted. They are saying the plane took off from ACT.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: fxramper
Posted 2010-02-18 08:59:30 and read 19468 times.

No delays from AUS, currently.

[Edited 2010-02-18 09:06:00]

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: LoneStarMike
Posted 2010-02-18 09:00:53 and read 19415 times.

FOX has streaming coverage right now.

http://www.myfoxaustin.com/generic/n..._news/myfoxaustin_livestream_index

LoneStarMike

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: KBUF
Posted 2010-02-18 09:02:40 and read 19350 times.

Quoting boeingfever777 (Reply 12):
Reporting a Piper Cherokee 150

I can't find any Cherokee's out of ACT on Flightaware.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: 2H4
Posted 2010-02-18 09:03:34 and read 19347 times.

Quoting KBUF (Reply 15):
I can't find any Cherokee's out of ACT on Flightaware.

It wouldn't show up if it was VFR.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: JBirdAV8r
Posted 2010-02-18 09:05:56 and read 19291 times.

It honestly looks like a kamikaze-style attack on that particular building. Prayers and thoughts with the victims.

Witness reports seem to be unified (at least over the news) that the plane didn't appear to be in distress. I'm not exactly sure that FDX C208 had anything to do with it, although there's one that had a strange routing SAT-AUS with a destination change to CLL, but that doesn't really mean anything in and of itself.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: Bennett123
Posted 2010-02-18 09:16:57 and read 18999 times.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/18/texas.plane.crash/index.html?hpt=T1

There is a shape a third of the way across the screen about half way up.

Could it be a Cherokee?.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: 71Zulu
Posted 2010-02-18 09:19:55 and read 18930 times.

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 17):
It honestly looks like a kamikaze-style attack on that particular building.

Apparently you are correct. NTSB just said they are investigating this as an intentional attack on the IRS. He apparently also set his own house on fire before heading out to the airport.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: JBirdAV8r
Posted 2010-02-18 09:22:57 and read 18797 times.

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 19):
Apparently you are correct. NTSB just said they are investigating this as an intentional attack on the IRS. He apparently also set his own house on fire before heading out to the airport.

Oh man.... 

And as for the building damage--with that type of plate glass, a high-speed impact by a fairly small airplane could cause that pretty easily I'd think. It looks like a similar amount of window damage to the Pirelli Tower accident in 2002, caused by a Commander 112 (just a little larger than a Cherokee):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Pirelli_Tower_plane_crash

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: ShyFlyer
Posted 2010-02-18 09:24:03 and read 18719 times.

CNN is reporting that the FAA has told them it was a Cirrus out of Georgetown Airport KGTU

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: IlliniCMI
Posted 2010-02-18 09:26:12 and read 18646 times.

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 19):
Apparently you are correct. NTSB just said they are investigating this as an intentional attack on the IRS. He apparently also set his own house on fire before heading out to the airport.

Wow. Not good.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: bahadir
Posted 2010-02-18 09:34:29 and read 18368 times.

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 21):
CNN is reporting that the FAA has told them it was a Cirrus out of Georgetown Airport KGTU

This one maybe?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N...X/history/20100218/1722Z/KGTU/KLAL

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: fxramper
Posted 2010-02-18 09:37:09 and read 18285 times.

Quoting bahadir (Reply 23):
This one maybe?

As stated, it wouldn't be on flightaware if it was VFR.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: ShyFlyer
Posted 2010-02-18 09:38:23 and read 19120 times.

Federal officials are telling CNN that in addition to setting his own house on fire, the pilot of the aircraft stole the accident aircraft.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: AirRyan
Posted 2010-02-18 09:38:58 and read 18953 times.

I've rented Tomahawk and Warriors from Pilots Choice at KGTU, but they don't have any Cherokees that I know of. If he came from Breakaway Park and Kittie Hill, those are private airports, where a guy who owned an aircraft like a Cherokee would base his aircraft from.

[Edited 2010-02-18 09:47:55]

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: 71Zulu
Posted 2010-02-18 09:39:00 and read 19649 times.

They might have just seen a Cirrus leaving GTU so assumed it was the one. Others have said it was a Cherokee 140 and if VFR, will not show up on Flightaware. We will just have to wait and see.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: ramzi
Posted 2010-02-18 09:41:24 and read 19528 times.

Quote:
NEW: "Criminal or terrorist activity" not indicated, Homeland Security spokesman says
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/18/texas.plane.crash/index.html?hpt=T1

From afar this sounds a lot like a suicide. A weird implementation of it, but not more. Do we know for a fact that the pilot was the only one on the plane?

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: F9Animal
Posted 2010-02-18 09:46:28 and read 19270 times.

It was obviously intentional. The good news is, the house fire occupants survived. A neighbor apparently got in the house and rescued the wife and kids. Makes you wonder what type of cynical plan this guy had... Eyewitnesses say he was flying low. Was he trying to avoid radar perhaps?

[Edited 2010-02-18 09:47:39]

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: boeingfever777
Posted 2010-02-18 09:46:36 and read 19236 times.

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 25):
Federal officials are telling CNN that in addition to setting his own house on fire, the pilot of the aircraft stole the accident aircraft.

This is all unconfirmed from some CNN report from some unidentified government agency. CNN doesn't know and neither do we.

[Edited 2010-02-18 09:55:09]

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: 71Zulu
Posted 2010-02-18 09:47:59 and read 19240 times.

The pilot has been identified according to FOX, just waiting for the name to be released.

They also mentioned Lakeway Airpark, K3R9, as a possible departure airport.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: FlyMKG
Posted 2010-02-18 09:48:06 and read 19119 times.

By the looks of the wreckage they keep showing on CNN, it appears to be a Piper model. They keep showing something that looks like an aileron with the ridges in it like a Piper aircraft. Cirrus' aileron is completely smooth. Also the paint on the piece is not any style of painting that Cirrus does.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: NIKV69
Posted 2010-02-18 09:54:21 and read 18813 times.

Wow, sounds like nobody in the building died. Let us hope so.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: 71Zulu
Posted 2010-02-18 09:55:27 and read 18834 times.

Reporter talking about being able to take off from all of these "unmanned strips" and she wonders what can be done to "protect us".

Got a feeling a lot of changes will be happening in general aviation after this one.

Damn idiot pilot.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: flyinryan99
Posted 2010-02-18 09:55:46 and read 18850 times.

Unconfirmed the registration *could be* N2889D a 1979 Piper PA-28 Dakota.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: LHR380
Posted 2010-02-18 09:57:39 and read 18738 times.

NTSB en route from Austin and Washington!!

Amazing hardly any injured in this incident!!!

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: KBUF
Posted 2010-02-18 09:57:55 and read 18948 times.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 33):
Wow, sounds like nobody in the building died. Let us hope so.

  

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: Airportugal310
Posted 2010-02-18 09:58:41 and read 18680 times.

Quoting fxramper (Reply 24):
As stated, it wouldn't be on flightaware if it was VFR.

Not necessarily true. If the aircraft was under VFR flight following, thus being issued a transponder code, it would possibly show up on Flightaware and any other tracking website.

Just sayin'

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: 2H4
Posted 2010-02-18 09:59:54 and read 18902 times.

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 34):
Got a feeling a lot of changes will be happening in general aviation after this one.

Damn idiot pilot.

       Sounds like he might have just destroyed years of progress AOPA and EAA have made with regard to the image of GA in this country. If it was indeed intentional, he won't be receiving any RIP sentiments from me.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: c152driver
Posted 2010-02-18 10:02:01 and read 18570 times.

Cue the "We've got to do something about these little planes" commentary and legislators vowing to do something to "protect" us in 5... 4... 3... 2...

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: golftango
Posted 2010-02-18 10:02:25 and read 18542 times.

Looks like the register owner is the suspect, also the one who set his home on fire. Joseph A Stack

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: 71Zulu
Posted 2010-02-18 10:02:52 and read 18609 times.

Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 35):
Unconfirmed the registration *could be* N2889D a 1979 Piper PA-28 Dakota.

Yep,

Pilot:
Joseph Andrew Stack

Daughter says he set house on fire before leaving this morning.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: LoneStarMike
Posted 2010-02-18 10:03:12 and read 18619 times.

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 31):
The pilot has been identified according to FOX, just waiting for the name to be released.

Other stations have already identified him as Joseph Stack - a software engineer.

MSNBC says police got a report of domestic violence at his home. When they arrived he had set a fire and fled.

On a side note, our current mayor (Lee Leffingwell) - who was just interviewed on MSNBC - is a retired Delta Air Lines pilot.

LoneStarMike

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: JBirdAV8r
Posted 2010-02-18 10:03:25 and read 18587 times.

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 34):
Reporter talking about being able to take off from all of these "unmanned strips" and she wonders what can be done to "protect us".

Please someone from AOPA get on the horn quickly....EAA probably wouldn't hurt either.

At least the idiot that bailed out of his Meridian a while back didn't kill anyone. I'm afraid that

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 34):
Got a feeling a lot of changes will be happening in general aviation after this one.

will at least be rallied for in the coming days.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: ShyFlyer
Posted 2010-02-18 10:12:49 and read 18100 times.

Quoting boeingfever777 (Reply 30):
CNN doesn't know and neither do we.

Indeed, which is why I worded it the way that I did.

Amazingly CNN is admitting that they are not sure, exactly, what type of aircraft is actually involved.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: alberchico
Posted 2010-02-18 10:13:58 and read 18200 times.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 39):
Sounds like he might have just destroyed years of progress AOPA and EAA have made with regard to the image of GA in this country. If it was indeed intentional, he won't be receiving any RIP sentiments from me.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/18/texas.plane.crash/index.html

If this was in fact intentional there are going to be some very dark days ahead for general aviation
     

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: 71Zulu
Posted 2010-02-18 10:16:08 and read 17936 times.

FOX just said NTSB has confirmed it was a Piper Cherokee and took off from GTU at 9:41 this morning. The FAA is saying that there is conflicting documentation on the aircraft and not sure at this point if Joseph Stack was the owner.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: rikkus67
Posted 2010-02-18 10:16:20 and read 17937 times.

Latest CNN report says pilot did not file flightplan, and that he had set his house on fire breforehand.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 39):
If it was indeed intentional, he won't be receiving any RIP sentiments from me.

Although I feel badly for whatever got this gentleman into this situation, I will save a prayer for the family he left behind, and the people in the building hit.

Quoting c152driver (Reply 40):
Cue the "We've got to do something about these little planes" commentary and legislators vowing to do something to "protect" us in 5... 4... 3... 2...

"TONIGHT ON N. GRACE....." *grumble*

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: c152driver
Posted 2010-02-18 10:18:14 and read 17831 times.

Quoting alberchico (Reply 46):
If this was in fact intentional there are going to be some very dark days ahead for general aviation

If it is confirmed there are no fatalities, besides the pilot, which I certainly hope is the case, hopefully the media will lose interest and move on.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: 787seattle
Posted 2010-02-18 10:18:41 and read 17870 times.

There are some interesting vids on CNN's website with a witness that has flown planes "since high school" that ID'd the Cherokee. He said it was blue and white. I don't have TV, but I would imagine there are some new interviews as well.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: sunbird
Posted 2010-02-18 10:20:02 and read 17776 times.

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...Num_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=N2889D

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: KELPkid
Posted 2010-02-18 10:20:04 and read 17764 times.

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 43):
Other stations have already identified him as Joseph Stack - a software engineer.

Fatal stack overflow this morning?

What a freakin' selfish way to inflict your misery upon others...  

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: LoneStarMike
Posted 2010-02-18 10:23:14 and read 17518 times.

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 47):
FOX just said NTSB has confirmed it was a Piper Cherokee and took off from GTU at 9:41 this morning.

That would be about right. Another report I read said that the first calls into 911 came in at 9:56.

Interesting video report from a man who worked in the building on the 3rd floor directly above where the plane hit.

http://www.kvue.com/news/local/Plane...s-floor-above-impact-84712812.html

He says he thought it was aiming for his window, then banked and dove into the 2nd floor.

LoneStarMike

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: FLY2HMO
Posted 2010-02-18 10:25:29 and read 17573 times.

Quoting rikkus67 (Reply 48):
Latest CNN report says pilot did not file flightplan, and that he had set his house on fire breforehand

Oh for freaks sake! Next thing you know the FAA is gonna start having extensive psychological testing and who knows what other idiotic measures just because of one crazy pilot.   

This is assuming of course, nothing else happened...

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: Mir
Posted 2010-02-18 10:25:51 and read 17658 times.

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 34):
Reporter talking about being able to take off from all of these "unmanned strips" and she wonders what can be done to "protect us".

Got a feeling a lot of changes will be happening in general aviation after this one.

Damn idiot pilot.


"Hello, I'd like to file my required VFR flight plan. It'll be departing AUS at 1800Z, cruising at 300 feet, and going direct to the IRS office in downtown Austin. About thirty minutes enroute, with...what? No, no, the IRS office is the destination. Yeah, that's correct. Um...I don't know the airport code, just put KIRS in there or something. Oh, and five and a half hours of fuel on board, and the aircraft is blue on white. Thanks."

 

-Mir

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: 71Zulu
Posted 2010-02-18 10:27:28 and read 17381 times.

Quoting sunbird (Reply 51):
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...2889D

Authorities still investigating whether N2889D is the plane that crashed or if he stole another plane according to FOX.

Timeline according to FOX:

9:30 - sets house on fire and leaves for airport
9:41 - a Cherokee departs GTU
9:46 - a Cherokee hits the office building

[Edited 2010-02-18 10:31:21]

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: 2H4
Posted 2010-02-18 10:29:53 and read 17285 times.

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 54):
Oh for freaks sake! Next thing you know the FAA is gonna start having extensive psychological testing and who knows what other idiotic measures just because of one crazy pilot.

It's not the FAA I'm worried about...

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: contrails
Posted 2010-02-18 10:31:31 and read 17257 times.

Since this attack was apparently directed at the IRS, why didn't he hit the regional processing center just a few miles to the south? It's a much bigger target, and the crash could have conceivably done more damage.

Just my opinion, but I still think the damage is too much for a single-engine prop.

I guess we'll be hearing and reading about this for some time to come.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: JBirdAV8r
Posted 2010-02-18 10:31:48 and read 17289 times.

Jon Ostrower has Twittered a possible suicide note from the pilot:

http://embeddedart.com/

Edit to add: What an angry, embittered man. I feel sad for him insofar as his inability to cope with his failures, but it sure makes you wonder if there were any warning signs, which their surely should have been...if this letter is indeed true, this is one seriously disturbed individual--and has been for some time.

[Edited 2010-02-18 10:41:54]

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: EmSeeEye
Posted 2010-02-18 10:35:18 and read 17095 times.

What a douchebag. Unfortunately this is a sign of the times we live in... Its too bad he had to use an airplane. If he would have used a car to kill himself then it wouldnt have been as big of a deal.

All it takes is one nutjob to ruin it for the rest of us.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: alberchico
Posted 2010-02-18 10:35:25 and read 17071 times.

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 54):
Oh for freaks sake! Next thing you know the FAA is gonna start having extensive psychological testing and who knows what other idiotic measures just because of one crazy pilot.

This is assuming of course, nothing else happened
Quoting Mir (Reply 55):
Got a feeling a lot of changes will be happening in general aviation after this one
Quoting 2H4 (Reply 57):
It's not the FAA I'm worried about

So realistically speaking what changes might we encounter as a result of this ?

Better security at small airfields ?( since it appears he stole the plane)

What can the FAA possibly do ?

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: Cass
Posted 2010-02-18 10:35:49 and read 17093 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 55):
"Hello, I'd like to file my required VFR flight plan. It'll be departing AUS at 1800Z, cruising at 300 feet, and going direct to the IRS office in downtown Austin. About thirty minutes enroute, with...what? No, no, the IRS office is the destination. Yeah, that's correct. Um...I don't know the airport code, just put KIRS in there or something. Oh, and five and a half hours of fuel on board, and the aircraft is blue on white. Thanks."

Pilot reports are appreciated, contact flight watch on 122.0, have a nice flight sir.

[Edited 2010-02-18 10:36:51]

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: ShyFlyer
Posted 2010-02-18 10:38:24 and read 17145 times.

Quoting c152driver (Reply 49):
If it is confirmed there are no fatalities, besides the pilot, which I certainly hope is the case, hopefully the media will lose interest and move on.

It's an airplane that crashed into a building. The journalistas will not let this go.  

For they, in an effort to protect the scared huddled masses, will valiantly fight for the little people who will undoubtedly fall victim to these little airplanes that are so clearly a threat by demanding that "something be done" to secure aircraft and airfields conveniently forgetting the fact that this act was committed by an individual who, if current reports are accurate, owned the aircraft and had every reason to have access to it and the airfield.
 

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: 787seattle
Posted 2010-02-18 10:40:37 and read 16904 times.

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 59):
Jon Ostrower has Twittered a possible suicide note from the pilot:

http://embeddedart.com/

That looks pretty real to me. How do people come across these notes?

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: 2H4
Posted 2010-02-18 10:41:39 and read 16941 times.

Quoting alberchico (Reply 46):
If this was in fact intentional there are going to be some very dark days ahead for general aviation

Hey everyone - if you're as frustrated and angry with this idiot for undoing so much of the progress that has been made in support of GA in the US, PLEASE consider joining AOPA (or renewing your membership).

http://www.aopa.org/index.html

For $39/year, you'll be helping to keep airports open and airplanes in the air. You'll be helping to keep airshows going, and you'll be helping to support our freedom to learn to fly.

For that $39, you'll receive a subscription to the fantastic AOPA Pilot magazine (which contains outstanding photography) or Flight Training Magazine. In addition, you'll have access to a plethora of online information and courses.

Sorry for the 'sales pitch', but it's a not-for-profit organization that really, truly is helping to keep General Aviation from being killed off by the DHS and TSA-minded people of this country.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: 2H4
Posted 2010-02-18 10:43:13 and read 16805 times.

Quoting alberchico (Reply 61):
So realistically speaking what changes might we encounter as a result of this ?

In short, legislation that restricts and/or removes our freedom to fly.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: RL757PVD
Posted 2010-02-18 10:44:10 and read 16795 times.

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 56):
Authorities still investigating whether N2889D is the plane that crashed or if he stole another plane according to FOX.
Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 42):
Pilot:
Joseph Andrew Stack

Thats a match, its his plane ( Per FAA Registry) Piper PA-28

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: 71Zulu
Posted 2010-02-18 10:45:00 and read 16745 times.

Quoting sunbird (Reply 51):
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...2889D

Austin police chief just said plane was definitely not stolen so guess it had to be N2889D.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: Glom
Posted 2010-02-18 10:45:58 and read 16757 times.

There should be a constitutional amendment banning legislators from passing any legislation in response to events until after a certain cooling off period. All legislation otherwise is always reactionary and stupid.

It's like the way I was sitting in some nasty traffic this evening and I was thinking that I'm so going to rant about it somewhere when I finally do get home. I got home, did some other stuff, and by the time I was ready to go online, I'd relaxed and realised that really moaning about traffic is somewhat pointless so I won't bother.

A little bit of time to catch your breath does wonders for good judgement.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: JBirdAV8r
Posted 2010-02-18 10:46:02 and read 16802 times.

Quoting alberchico (Reply 61):
So realistically speaking what changes might we encounter as a result of this ?

Better security at small airfields ?( since it appears he stole the plane)

I'm afraid the backlash may be directed more at general aviation as a whole, and not just security issues/mental health of pilots.

I hope my AOPA dollars are going to immediate damage-control work! Speaking of...

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 65):
Quoting alberchico (Reply 46):
If this was in fact intentional there are going to be some very dark days ahead for general aviation

Hey everyone - if you're as frustrated and angry with this idiot for undoing so much of the progress that has been made in support of GA in the US, PLEASE consider joining AOPA (or renewing your membership).

http://www.aopa.org/index.html

For $39/year, you'll be helping to keep airports open and airplanes in the air. You'll be helping to keep airshows going, and you'll be helping to support our freedom to learn to fly.

For that $39, you'll receive a subscription to the fantastic AOPA Pilot magazine (which contains outstanding photography) or Flight Training Magazine. In addition, you'll have access to a plethora of online information and courses.

Hear hear!    AOPA is really a worthy organization defending GA, and the magazine alone is worth the price of membership. They are truly devoted to furthering general aviation, its effect on society, and enhancing pilot safety.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: Greaser
Posted 2010-02-18 10:46:27 and read 16718 times.

Aircraft Owner information:
Joseph A Stack
Lincoln, CA
95648
Aircraft Information:
Piper PA 28-236
Serial No. 28-7911227
N Number N2889D
Certification Date: 03/02/1998
Aircraft Built: 1979

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: alberchico
Posted 2010-02-18 10:51:07 and read 16519 times.

anyone notice the AOPA site is running really slow right now ?

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: 2H4
Posted 2010-02-18 10:53:51 and read 16479 times.

Quoting alberchico (Reply 72):
anyone notice the AOPA site is running really slow right now ?

I'd say that's a very good sign.

Here's an AOPA-related organization that is also very worthy of our support:

http://www.gaservesamerica.com/

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: Glom
Posted 2010-02-18 10:55:43 and read 16522 times.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 65):
Hey everyone - if you're as frustrated and angry with this idiot for undoing so much of the progress that has been made in support of GA in the US, PLEASE consider joining AOPA (or renewing your membership).

Excellent idea! I just did that, albeit the UK chapter. I'm going to get a photo card too. 

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: Scotland1979
Posted 2010-02-18 10:57:30 and read 16373 times.

Quoting EmSeeEye (Reply 60):
Jon Ostrower has Twittered a possible suicide note from the pilot

According to CNN, the pilot post suicide note on internet - so things seem possible after he set a house on fire before leaving.

Frank

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: goldenshield
Posted 2010-02-18 11:00:43 and read 16214 times.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 65):
PLEASE consider joining AOPA (or renewing your membership).

I renewed my AOPA membership last month. It'll be the best $35 I ever spent this year, what with the discounts and programs offered through them.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: 2H4
Posted 2010-02-18 11:00:45 and read 16253 times.

Quoting Glom (Reply 75):
I just did that, albeit the UK chapter.

THANK YOU, Josh! Let it be known to all that I owe this man several beers!   

Ok, who's next?   

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: ShyFlyer
Posted 2010-02-18 11:02:01 and read 16120 times.

I find it somewhat amusing that the journalistas keep talking about the amount of fuel and the size of the fire. "It must of been full of fuel..." Apparently, this building doesn't contain any flammable materials.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: Mir
Posted 2010-02-18 11:07:40 and read 16084 times.

Quoting alberchico (Reply 61):
So realistically speaking what changes might we encounter as a result of this ?

Hopefully, nothing. Let's think about it logically: I can think of three instances in fairly recent history that a person intentionally crashed an airplane into a building (there may be more) - this case, the office tower in Tampa several years back, and the White House. In all three of those cases, nobody died except for the idiot at the controls (I don't want to use the word "pilot" to describe such people, since I think calling them that is an insult to all the pilots out there who are responsible enough not to try and pull that crap). That should tell you something about how dangerous small aircraft are: not very. He could have caused more damage by driving his car into a pedestrian area, or even up onto the sidewalk.

Fortunately, I don't think the Texas congressional delegation is all that anti-GA. I have the misfortune of having Charles Schumer as my senator, and he would be calling for heads to roll if this had happened in New York, as would Lautenberg of NJ - the two of them are sworn enemies of GA. There will be questions of why flight plans aren't required for all aircraft, posed by people who wouldn't know what a flight plan was, and what it's really used for, if it hit them in the face. There will be calls to put the TSA at all airports to screen people. AOPA will go into overdrive to try and stop them, and if history is anything to go by, they will be successful, and the freedom to fly that US residents have (far more freedom than most other developed countries) will remain. Let's all hope that that trend continues.

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 79):
Apparently, this building doesn't contain any flammable materials.

A building housing a government agency? Absolutely not! Nobody in a government office ever has to do any sort of work that might involve paper in some fashion, right?  

-Mir

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: Glom
Posted 2010-02-18 11:13:39 and read 15796 times.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 78):
THANK YOU, Josh! Let it be known to all that I owe this man several beers!
[quote=Mir,reply=80]AOPA will go into overdrive to try and stop them, and if history is anything to go by, they will be successful, and the freedom to fly that US residents have (far more freedom than most other developed countries) will remain. Let's all hope that that trend continues.

The situation with GA is the reverse than with the airline industry. When something bad happens with airlines, passengers get scared and airlines go along with stupid reactionary policies to reassure their customers. When something bad happens with GA, the pilots fight tooth and claw to not let it ruin things for the rest of them.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: airplanenut
Posted 2010-02-18 11:14:53 and read 15756 times.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 26):
I've rented Tomahawk and Warriors from Pilots Choice at KGTU, but they don't have any Cherokees that I know of.

Cherokee, Warrior, Arrow, Dakota, Archer... all basically the same PA-28 with some minor differences. They tend to be referred to interchangeably, especially by controllers. The changes are mostly based on the engine and fixed vs. retractable gear.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: goldenshield
Posted 2010-02-18 11:17:30 and read 15697 times.

Quoting Glom (Reply 81):
When something bad happens with airlines, passengers get scared and airlines go along with stupid reactionary policies to reassure their customers. When something bad happens with GA, the pilots fight tooth and claw to not let it ruin things for the rest of them.

Airlines want to protect their #1 source of income: passengers. This is also why they are pushing for user fees for GA, and basically trying to minimize their main pool of their most prominent employee: the pilot. Catch 22, wouldn't you say?

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: Glom
Posted 2010-02-18 11:20:27 and read 15562 times.

Quoting goldenshield (Reply 82):
This is also why they are pushing for user fees for GA,

To be fair, I think GA in the US gets a fair bit of subsidy. I don't know how this compares to subsidies the commercial sector receive though.

In the UK though, no such luck for us and what British Airways tried to do to us a few years ago was pretty evil. In fact, just having thought of that now has given me yet another reason to avoid BA like the plague.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: DiamondFlyer
Posted 2010-02-18 11:34:52 and read 15239 times.

Quoting Glom (Reply 83):
To be fair, I think GA in the US gets a fair bit of subsidy. I don't know how this compares to subsidies the commercial sector receive though.

Say what? How exactly is GA subsidized? We pay the same fuel tax as everyone else who uses fuel for airplanes in this country.

So, explain how we are subsidized.

-DiamondFlyer

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: Glom
Posted 2010-02-18 11:38:28 and read 15212 times.

Ok you're not. Calm down.   

That's what my old instructor used to say explaining why private flying in the US is so good (that and the weather).

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: JBirdAV8r
Posted 2010-02-18 11:38:39 and read 15094 times.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 84):

So, explain how we are subsidized.

I think Glom is referring to "subsidies" in the sense that ATC services are provided by the government for "free"--and many airports are public, funded by taxpayer dollars, and don't charge specific usage fees. That's not the case in most areas of the world.


On a personal note, GA flying makes my particular small business possible and is a tremendous asset to us. Piling on user fees to our flights would hamper us.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: Mir
Posted 2010-02-18 11:47:55 and read 14828 times.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 84):
How exactly is GA subsidized? We pay the same fuel tax as everyone else who uses fuel for airplanes in this country.

So, explain how we are subsidized.

GA pays far more in fuel tax than the airlines do, actually. But then again, GA doesn't pay the PFC charges that airlines do (and nor should they), and the smaller airports that GA use are normally supported by the general fund. That's where the general argument that GA is subsidized comes from. But I'm not buying it - I tend to believe that the airlines just want to take away market share from GA.

-Mir

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: FLY2HMO
Posted 2010-02-18 11:53:37 and read 14705 times.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 77):
THANK YOU, Josh! Let it be known to all that I owe this man several beers!

Ok, who's next?

This incident pissed me off enough that I just renewed. Besides, I could really use their flight planning tool very shortly.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: KELPkid
Posted 2010-02-18 12:02:33 and read 14529 times.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 77):
THANK YOU, Josh! Let it be known to all that I owe this man several beers!

Ok, who's next?

Well, despite having no medical (and the fact that for the past couple of years, if I tried to get one I would not be able to), I kept my membership alive, and I am still a current AOPA member   I even kept the expensive, optional legal services. Maybe this year I will try and fly again-the medical reasons are gone 

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: DiamondFlyer
Posted 2010-02-18 12:06:43 and read 14348 times.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 89):
Well, despite having no medical (and the fact that for the past couple of years, if I tried to get one I would not be able to), I kept my membership alive, and I am still a current AOPA member I even kept the expensive, optional legal services. Maybe this year I will try and fly again-the medical reasons are gone

You sound like a perfect candidate for light sport.

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 86):
I think Glom is referring to "subsidies" in the sense that ATC services are provided by the government for "free"--and many airports are public, funded by taxpayer dollars, and don't charge specific usage fees. That's not the case in most areas of the world.

The day that fee's for using any airspace are instituted, better be the same day that EVERY road in the United States is a toll road.

Quoting Mir (Reply 87):

GA pays far more in fuel tax than the airlines do, actually. But then again, GA doesn't pay the PFC charges that airlines do (and nor should they), and the smaller airports that GA use are normally supported by the general fund. That's where the general argument that GA is subsidized comes from. But I'm not buying it - I tend to believe that the airlines just want to take away market share from GA.

I don't buy it either. Of the airports that are frequently congested with Part 121 traffic, how many of them have any substantial GA traffic? Probably none. The little guys don't want to get in the mess of a Chicago O'Hare or JFK, when they can go somewhere else for less money.

-DiamondFlyer

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: Airportugal310
Posted 2010-02-18 12:07:00 and read 14350 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 87):
GA pays far more in fuel tax than the airlines do, actually.

As a whole, or per gallon? I work in Supply (Jet Fuel) at a large corporate aviation company, and as far as i know the only taxes that really apply to everyone to everyone are FET (.219 or .244 dep) and LUST (maybe another one in there I am missing...)

Since other taxes vary wildly by state, I am just looking for a clarification on your post

Thanks Mir

Ill just put in the stipulation that I dont know how Avgas taxes work at all.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: GAIsweetGAI
Posted 2010-02-18 12:26:42 and read 14015 times.

Quoting alberchico (Reply 61):

So realistically speaking what changes might we encounter as a result of this ?

How about implementing the "no flying within 500ft of anything" by planting SAM batteries everywhere, or putting FRZ's over anything that isn't an airport...  

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: Type-Rated
Posted 2010-02-18 12:26:53 and read 13923 times.

I think a new thread should be started about GA subsidies and the potential user fees that may come in the future.
Otherwise the moderators will lock this thread.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: srbmod
Posted 2010-02-18 12:50:01 and read 13549 times.

Quoting Type-Rated (Reply 93):
I think a new thread should be started about GA subsidies and the potential user fees that may come in the future.
Otherwise the moderators will lock this thread.

  

Let's keep the discussion to the actual incident.

There is a thread in Non-Av discussing this incident as well, as there are elements of this incident that are better suited for discussing in the Forum.

Austin TX Suicide Crash Into IRS Building (by Dreadnought Feb 18 2010 in Non Aviation)

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: dragon6172
Posted 2010-02-18 13:14:59 and read 13116 times.

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 34):
Reporter talking about being able to take off from all of these "unmanned strips" and she wonders what can be done to "protect us".

Got a feeling a lot of changes will be happening in general aviation after this one.

Damn idiot pilot.

This is what I thought. What would Orville and Wilbur think about what people are doing with planes?

Quoting contrails (Reply 58):
Just my opinion, but I still think the damage is too much for a single-engine prop.

And the Towers came down with timed charges? And your name is contrails?   

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: QANTAS077
Posted 2010-02-18 14:35:17 and read 11915 times.

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 56):
9:30 - sets house on fire and leaves for airport
9:41 - a Cherokee departs GTU
9:46 - a Cherokee hits the office building

smells like a terror attack to me...

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: F9Animal
Posted 2010-02-18 14:47:57 and read 11828 times.

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 43):
On a side note, our current mayor (Lee Leffingwell) - who was just interviewed on MSNBC - is a retired Delta Air Lines pilot.

LoneStarMike

Yeah, he was on the phone this morning with MSNBC. The reporter called him Mayor Effingwell, and he quickly jumped her about his correct last name! I about spit my coffee across the room. Sorry, I just had to add that in.

Quoting alberchico (Reply 46):
If this was in fact intentional there are going to be some very dark days ahead for general aviation

I seriously think it is BS that this would create issues in the GA world. I mean, look what just happened in LAS when the guy drove his car through the building and opened fire. If they are going to go after the GA world, then they better start taking away drivers licenses too.

Quoting goldenshield (Reply 76):
I renewed my AOPA membership last month. It'll be the best $35 I ever spent this year, what with the discounts and programs offered through them.

Amazing. You guys are starting to sound like folks who fight for the rights to bear arms! Seriously, I think our Constitutional Rights are just fading away. Look what a few jerkoffs in this world do to our freedoms!  

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: KELPkid
Posted 2010-02-18 14:49:55 and read 11805 times.

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 96):
smells like a terror attack to me...

Unfortunately, of the Tim McVeigh/Unabomber variety, in otherwords, classic American crackpot  

[Edited 2010-02-18 15:19:06]

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: soon7x7
Posted 2010-02-18 15:00:22 and read 11610 times.

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 96):

This pilot is not alone in his anger with the government...he just took it way too far...Based on info I have seen, plane was operating fine, according to information he left behind, this was an intentional event. I don't think this will be the last either...many people in this country are getting hit hard...loosing jobs, homes, their very lifestyles, their marriages due to hard economic times. Sad that individuals get driven this far...
He was a distraught individual with a pilots license, not every body that flies a plane into a building is a terrorist, they are just disturbed...j

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: Longhornmaniac
Posted 2010-02-18 15:12:47 and read 11478 times.

Jesus Christ,

I leave for a couple of months, and this is what happens. Anyone know if the airport is still closed?

Hope everyone (except the pilot) makes it out ok.

Cheers,
Cameron

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: soon7x7
Posted 2010-02-18 15:29:18 and read 11311 times.

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 100):

One person missing, one in the hospital...a flight instructor that witnessed the crash said he had to duck...he claimed the engine was firewaled and in his opinion, he felt it was deliberate. According to the letter Joseph Stock, the pilot left behind, he made his case and took action by this crash...end of story...Seems clearcut...he had enough and wanted to get back at the system...j

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: stasisLAX
Posted 2010-02-18 15:33:12 and read 11307 times.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 98):
Unfortunately, of the Tim McVeigh/Unabomber variety, in otherwords, classic American crackpot

Exactly, of the classic paranoid sub-variety......

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: thegreatRDU
Posted 2010-02-18 15:40:43 and read 11230 times.

Damn..anybody injured? He also set his house own fire...

There's no doubt in my mind that this will spawn copy-cats...

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: soon7x7
Posted 2010-02-18 15:58:53 and read 11052 times.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 103):

I wouldn't say copycats as its a pretty extreme measure but a lot of distraught people here in America as many loosing their homes, wives, jobs...so I wouldn't call it paranoia...he seemed pretty clear on his intentions and just had enough...Big difference...j

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: LoneStarMike
Posted 2010-02-18 16:04:08 and read 11044 times.

The local NBC affiliate in Austin (KXAN) is now reporting that the missing Federal employee is confirmed dead.

LoneStarMike

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: 71Zulu
Posted 2010-02-18 16:04:55 and read 11021 times.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 103):
Damn..anybody injured?

1 unaccounted for
2 hospitalized
13 treated and released

according to this,

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,586581,00.html

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: revo1059
Posted 2010-02-18 16:16:21 and read 10925 times.

I read his "statement" and I have to say it is one of the more accurate descriptions of our government I have read in a long time. Push people hard enough and something like this will happen. Sad.

I'd be willing to bet there will be the typical government knee jerk reaction to this by crippling GA with useless new "rules". I think this will be GAs "9-11".

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: thegreatRDU
Posted 2010-02-18 16:18:32 and read 10910 times.

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 104):

I wouldn't say copycats as its a pretty extreme measure but a lot of distraught people here in America as many loosing their homes, wives, jobs...so I wouldn't call it paranoia...he seemed pretty clear on his intentions and just had enough...Big difference...j

It will...think about it, a domestic terrorist, Al Qaeda, depressed suicidal people....they could all be inspired by this...

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: AUSisAwesome
Posted 2010-02-18 17:08:37 and read 10539 times.

The aircraft was a Piper Dakota. Being from Austin, I drove by the disaster and the whole side is completely destroyed. The building, occupied by over 200 IRS (Internal Revenue Service) was evacuated with only 1 person missing. YOu can find coverage of the sitauation on CNN, BBC, etc.

P.S. My mom used to work in that office when it was not occupied by IRS so I know it well.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: KELPkid
Posted 2010-02-18 17:12:13 and read 10535 times.

Quoting AUSisAwesome (Reply 109):
The building, occupied by over 200 IRS (Internal Revenue Service) was evacuated with only 1 person missing. YOu can find coverage of the sitauation on CNN, BBC, etc.

Hey, that's not the building where your tax returns end up at if you live in that part of the world, is it? What happens if your 1040 gets incinerated in a terrorist act?    I suppose that wouldn't be such a good thing if you were expecting a refund   

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: LTBEWR
Posted 2010-02-18 17:40:06 and read 10283 times.

There can be no doubt this was a personal domestic terror attack. Some are questioning if there was additional fuel or other substances on the plane beyond the usual fuel tank load to cause the huge fire this attack caused.

Some are fearful of the affects on GA from this domestic terror attack in Austin. For every one of these attacks by GA's, there is no doubt 1000's of incidents, crashes and accidents of GA's with fatalities. They occur from weather, poor pilot judgement, mechanical or structural failure, interfering traffic, fuel starvation problems. Earlier this week in central New Jersey is just one example. How may GA's in the last month or year have occured where the a/c ended up in a house, commercial building, in trees with fatalities? Perhaps the only way this could have been prevented was to take away his license until he paid his taxes. I do hope it doesn't mean heavy penalties on the use of GA's as it would be devestating to all GA users and their responsible flying enjoyment and general benefit to society and our economy.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: Longhornmaniac
Posted 2010-02-18 17:49:58 and read 10261 times.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 111):
There can be no doubt this was a personal domestic terror attack

With all due respect,   . There can absolutely be a doubt, and, to be honest, I don't believe it has anything to do with an act of terrorism. This seems like a desperate human being who was pushed to the brink by the system. I am in no way condoning the activity, but it doesn't sound like terrorism to me. Speculation does nothing at this point, we should wait until more facts are available before passing judgment. FWIW, the damage caused seems perfectly consistent with a near full fuel tank.

Cheers,
Cameron

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: LoneStarMike
Posted 2010-02-18 17:52:48 and read 10184 times.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 110):
Hey, that's not the building where your tax returns end up at if you live in that part of the world, is it?

No. The processing center is in another part of town. I had read that the building that was hit investigated tax fraud cases and was also where one would go if they were being audited.

BTW, the plane actually clipped a Lexus on the frontage road before slamming into the building. Surprisingly, the vehicle looked to be in good shape except for part of the windshield. The driver was able to get out. There were also 5 people trapped on the second floor, but a man who worked for Binswanger Glass Company happened to be driving by and had ladders on his truck, which he and bystanders used to rescue the five people before the emergency vehicles had even gotten there.

It's really a miracle that more people weren't hurt or killed.

LoneStarMike

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: Skydrol
Posted 2010-02-18 18:04:23 and read 10157 times.

Quoting c152driver (Reply 49):
hopefully the media will lose interest and move on.

No. Unfortunately we can all count on this not being the case. The media will dwell on this until something is done to protect people from another similar act. Just imagine the scope of what would be required....  

.
Quoting EmSeeEye (Reply 60):
All it takes is one nutjob to ruin it for the rest of us.

If that is what society wants to allow to happen... then yes. My opinion (and I generally do not agree with social trends), is that GA tomorrow, next week and next month should carry on just like it has until now. But media and society prefers to be in a crisis/fear mode, so my opinion will be contrary.


Quoting KELPkid (Reply 110):
Hey, that's not the building where your tax returns end up at if you live in that part of the world, is it? What happens if your 1040 gets incinerated in a terrorist act?

You can bet if you owe them, the data was backed up in a remote location. But if they owe you, it was lost in the fire.



LD4

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: 71Zulu
Posted 2010-02-18 18:12:06 and read 10066 times.

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 113):
There were also 5 people trapped on the second floor, but a man who worked for Binswanger Glass Company happened to be driving by and had ladders on his truck, which he and bystanders used to rescue the five people before the emergency vehicles had even gotten there.

That glass company man was Robin Dehaven.
I saw his interview on FOX, the world needs more people like him.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,586682,00.html

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: soon7x7
Posted 2010-02-18 20:03:42 and read 9394 times.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 108):

This case is far from a terrorist event...he wasn't trying to create fear...he's apparently an average guy, had a decent living, all fell apart, who knows what hell the IRS was putting him through...had enough and saw no light at the end of his tunnel. Don't even think this was revenge...seemed like he felt..."you guys want a piece of me, well you got the whole thing"...but you won't get my house ,my plane or me...

I'm sure terrorist have considered single engines, corporate jets and all other options by now in addition to the measures we haven't even considered yet. I lost a close pilot friend recently to a similar event but he took his own life in his own aircraft out over the ocean, for different reasons. It happens...i'm out of a job for 14 months...at risk of loosing my house...I too am a pilot but haven't considered flying into any buildings......................................................................yet.  Wow!

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: ULMFlyer
Posted 2010-02-18 20:24:47 and read 9242 times.

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 116):
This case is far from a terrorist event

Of course this is terrorism. It couldn't be clearer. I bet there are IRS employees in fear right now, particularly after CNN is reporting 2 bodies have been found.

Quote:
Since the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) has documented 75 domestic terrorist plots, most of which involved individuals with extreme antigovernment views (...)

The IRS has often been the target of those filled with hatred for the government. The SPLC has documented five domestic terrorist plots against the agency between 1995 and 2009. In a July 1995 plot, the target was an IRS building in Austin, Texas.

July 28, 1995

Antigovernment extremist Charles Ray Polk is arrested after trying to purchase a machine gun from an undercover police officer, and is later indicted by federal grand jury for plotting to blow up the Internal Revenue Service building in Austin, Texas. At the time of his arrest, Polk is trying to purchase plastic explosives to add to the already huge arsenal he’s amassed. Polk is sentenced to almost 75 years in federal prison.

Read on: http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2010/0...rget-of-antigovernment-extremists/

The difference now is the delivery means, a PA-28.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: TCFC424
Posted 2010-02-18 21:10:28 and read 8968 times.

As defined by Federal US laws and codes, this seems to match the definition for terrorism. It was an individual (which cuts out about half of the defeinitions) but his intent appears to be intended to "coerce" or "intimidate" the IRS.

I live in Austin and was less than two miles from the site when this occurred. My heart is with everyone impacted with this incident, including the "incident pilot's" family. As for the selfish individual who conducted this act, you are living where you belong now.

I don't think that GA will be impacted at all by this event. This is Texas, and our lawmakers are well-estab.lished business people who depend on private aviation to make their lives work.

The building looks much worse in person than on the video. I delivered to that IRS office less than a month ago. I know what it normally looks like. It has been almost completely destroyed. I will not be surprised to see it razed when the investigation has been completed.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: DUALRATED
Posted 2010-02-18 21:55:30 and read 8739 times.

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 21):
CNN is reporting that the FAA has told them it was a Cirrus out of Georgetown
Quoting fxramper (Reply 24):
Federal officials are telling CNN that in addition to setting his own house on fire, the pilot of the aircraft stole the accident aircraft.
Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 4):
Wait...now saying all evacuated from Office and they think it is an accident.

This post is not a knock on the posters above but rather on pointing out how useless the media is.

Quoting boeingfever777 (Reply 30):
CNN doesn't know and neither do we.

Now thats the TRUTH!

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: smcmac32msn
Posted 2010-02-18 21:55:43 and read 8762 times.

Quoting ULMFlyer (Reply 117):
Of course this is terrorism. It couldn't be clearer. I bet there are IRS employees in fear right now, particularly after CNN is reporting 2 bodies have been found.

Yeah, because one is the pilot, the other the one missing person. I'm sure all IRS employees are cowering in there caves (probably with Osama Bin Laden himself) fearing the wrath of Joseph A. Stack. I'd be more fearful of the wack-jobs stealing 757s with more to follow than some random Joe (literally) pissed off he got screwed by CODE 1706.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: Glom
Posted 2010-02-18 23:17:15 and read 8388 times.

Quoting TCFC424 (Reply 118):
I don't think that GA will be impacted at all by this event. This is Texas, and our lawmakers are well-estab.lished business people who depend on private aviation to make their lives work.

Well that's keen. But what about the federal government? You know how little respect they have for the concept of federalism.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: maxpower1954
Posted 2010-02-18 23:23:01 and read 8366 times.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 111):
Perhaps the only way this could have been prevented was to take away his license until he paid his taxes. I do hope it doesn't mean heavy penalties on the use of GA's as it would be devestating to all GA users and their responsible flying enjoyment and general benefit to society and our economy

Somehow, I don't think taking away someone's pilot's license who also owns an airplane would have prevented anything. Think about the logic - gee, my ticket has been revoked, so I can't take-off on a one way mission to oblivion?

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: Glom
Posted 2010-02-19 02:06:23 and read 7725 times.

Oh dear. It appears no time is too soon for the The Daily Mash.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: MD11Engineer
Posted 2010-02-19 02:48:03 and read 7562 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 79):
Hopefully, nothing. Let's think about it logically: I can think of three instances in fairly recent history that a person intentionally crashed an airplane into a building (there may be more) - this case, the office tower in Tampa several years back, and the White House. In all three of those cases, nobody died except for the idiot at the controls (I don't want to use the word "pilot" to describe such people, since I think calling them that is an insult to all the pilots out there who are responsible enough not to try and pull that crap). That should tell you something about how dangerous small aircraft are: not very. He could have caused more damage by driving his car into a pedestrian area, or even up onto the sidewalk.

Add the idiot who in 2005, crashed his microlight into the lawn in front of the Reichstag building in Berlin (the building houses the federal parliament and the office building of the chancellor is right next door). It was soon found out that the pilot had killed his wife in his house before taking off.
The politicians immediately demanded the army to deploy Hawk anti-aircraft missiles around the government district of Berlin (the city center) and also ordered a no-fly zone over Berlin city center.
A general told them what would happen if the army shot down an aircraft over the crowded city center or if a missile would miss it´s target and come down again with a live warhead, so the plan was dumped.
On pressure of the population the no-fly zone was abolished as well after a few months.

Or think about the nutcase, who stole a Katana at Egelsbach near FRA and for two hours flew between the skyscrapers of the banking district, threatening to crash himself into one of the buildings. The Luftwaffe deployed two F-4, which fortunately did nothing except producing some noise. FRA was closed for the time until an ATC controller managed to talk the nutter into landing in FRA, where he was arrested and brought to a mental hospital (he was known to be crazy). There were immediately politicians around, who demanded every glider field to be turned into a high security airport.

Jan

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: Mir
Posted 2010-02-19 03:25:07 and read 7400 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 79):
I can think of three instances in fairly recent history that a person intentionally crashed an airplane into a building (there may be more) - this case, the office tower in Tampa several years back, and the White House. In all three of those cases, nobody died except for the idiot at the controls

Though I believe that my overall point is still correct, this statement was based on reports that everyone had survived, reports that have now been shown to be inaccurate. RIP to the lost, and my thoughts are with their families and friends.

-Mir

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: soon7x7
Posted 2010-02-19 06:03:20 and read 6792 times.

Quoting ULMFlyer (Reply 117):

I beg to differ, he didn't martyr himself for allah or God or some radically idealistic reason...he was an average American that apparently had a decent life, played in a band, owned a plane, and was getting screwed by the government (allegedly). If he chose the IRS I have no doubt they were turning the screws on his life as they do so well n this country and in his eyes...his life was over, and they were to blame...Just because employees of the building became afraid as a result of the incident doesn' t qualify this as a terrorist act... of course they are afraid,...its classifies as someone that was pushed to the edge either by his own actions or by government influence. I'll go with the later. I watched the twin towers burn by cowards that hate Americans, America and all western influenced countries. Two completely different modes of thought behind these two events when compared. Think this guy just had it out for the IRS. I don't think he is an American basher. Typically Texans are the most patriotic citizens in this country...j

He called out what was going on in his mind before this crash...his description of the government was right on...spelled out better than most journalists. I don't support what he did, it was an attempt at mass murder. Given the nature of what has been taking place in the US recently, he's not alone...a lot of pissed of Americans out there. This will not be the last episode but clearly is vastly different from a terrorist movement.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: SEPilot
Posted 2010-02-19 06:08:48 and read 6767 times.

Just to put it into perspective, it is much easier to do a lot more damage a lot easier with a rental truck than with a small airplane. We didn't hear any cries about the danger of rental trucks after Timothy McVeigh. You can easily do as much damage with a car as with a small plane. All you need to do is fill it with gas cans and crash it into a building.

Quoting airplanenut (Reply 81):
Cherokee, Warrior, Arrow, Dakota, Archer... all basically the same PA-28 with some minor differences. They tend to be referred to interchangeably, especially by controllers. The changes are mostly based on the engine and fixed vs. retractable gear.

There is a distinct difference; the Cherokees all have the Hershey bar wing; all of the others have the tapered wing. But they all evolved from the Cherokee.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: soon7x7
Posted 2010-02-19 06:37:25 and read 6623 times.

Quoting TCFC424 (Reply 118):

Intimidate the IRS,...there's an oximoron if I ever heard one...than that classifies all IRS agents as terrorists. In this country no other agency instills more fear in average Americans than the IRS as they get us where it hurts..our pocketbooks...Of course any description of an "evil doer" by the US govenment would be such a broad spectrum statement it could easily encompass any of us.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 127):

Timothy Mcveigh was part of a movement, the 9/11 attackers were also...this guy just seemed to be pissed. An airplane, providing you know how to fly, guarantees a target hit without the hassles of getting a truck, getting it onto the target premises through a security checkpoint. Eh...this is all nonsense anyway...I feel sorry for the guy that he was driven to such extremes and I do feel sorry for the innocent recipients of his anger...it was all so unessessary. What next?...

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: LoneStarMike
Posted 2010-02-19 06:41:02 and read 6609 times.

The Austin American Statesman has a good graphic of how the plane came in, based on a witness's report who was at the Marie Callender's Restaurant directly across the freeway. It looks like the reason more people weren't killed was because the plane struck the first floor into a suite of offices that was available for lease and therefore, not occupied at the time of the crash.

graphic

The IRS occupied the 2nd, 3rd and 4th floors.

LoneStarMike

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: ULMFlyer
Posted 2010-02-19 07:32:04 and read 6319 times.

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 126):
I beg to differ, he didn't martyr himself for allah or God or some radically idealistic reason...he was an average American that apparently had a decent life, played in a band, owned a plane, and was getting screwed by the government (allegedly). If he chose the IRS I have no doubt they were turning the screws on his life as they do so well n this country and in his eyes...his life was over, and they were to blame...Just because employees of the building became afraid as a result of the incident doesn' t qualify this as a terrorist act...

I can see what you are trying to say and I would agree with it if he had walked in the IRS building and opened fire against the agents handling his case. But destroying a whole building full of innocent people crosses the line and I respectfully doubt you'd be arguing your point if he'd used a Ryder truck full of ammonia nitrate. Furthermore, his suicide manifesto contains plenty of "radically idealistic reasons." Finally, the last thing I'm gonna point out is the FBI's definition of domestic terrorism:

Quote:
Domestic terrorism refers to activities that involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any state; appear to be intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; to influence the policy of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States. [18 U.S.C. § 2331(5)]

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: DiamondFlyer
Posted 2010-02-19 07:57:52 and read 6199 times.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 127):
There is a distinct difference; the Cherokees all have the Hershey bar wing; all of the others have the tapered wing. But they all evolved from the Cherokee.

Not that I want to go off topic, but some of the Arrow's have Hershey bar wings as well.


Back to the topic at hand, I'm confused as to how this airplane did so much damage. If you look at the damage that was done by the SR-20 in NYC a few years ago, and the 172 in Tampa in 2002, they don't compare at all. Both did very minor damage to the buildings, whereas this PA28 did a whole bunch more. What caused that difference?

-DiamondFlyer

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: SEPilot
Posted 2010-02-19 08:02:40 and read 6157 times.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 131):

Not that I want to go off topic, but some of the Arrow's have Hershey bar wings as well.

True; I had forgotten that one (which, considering the fact that I have a fair amount of time in a Hershey bar wing Arrow is somewhat unforgivable.)   

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: MD11Engineer
Posted 2010-02-19 13:36:36 and read 5870 times.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 131):
Back to the topic at hand, I'm confused as to how this airplane did so much damage. If you look at the damage that was done by the SR-20 in NYC a few years ago, and the 172 in Tampa in 2002, they don't compare at all. Both did very minor damage to the buildings, whereas this PA28 did a whole bunch more. What caused that difference?

Maybe he loaded some additional flammable material into his plane before he took off. IIRC some years ago in Switzerland some guy tried to demolish a courthouse with a digger loaded with propane cylinders.

Jan

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: AirNZ
Posted 2010-02-19 14:14:49 and read 5826 times.

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 128):

Timothy Mcveigh was part of a movement, the 9/11 attackers were also...this guy just seemed to be pissed

Absolutely irrelevant. Flying an aircraft into a building full of people cannot be justified whatever the individual's alleged reason may be.

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: LoneStarMike
Posted 2010-02-19 20:59:19 and read 5683 times.

Just some updates from today.

The Federal employee has been identified as Vernon Hunter - 67 whose job was to help arrange payment plans for people who couldn't afford to pay their taxes. His wife also works in the building and was about 20 feet away and was injured, but made it out (according to the son who was interviewed tonight.)

Video of news report & interview with son

The police tape has been taken down and replaced with a chain link fence which includes the southbound frontage road of Highway 183 (Research Blvd.) The freeway itself and the northbound frontage road remain open. Federal investigators estimate they will need more time with exclusive access to the site, before allowing TxDOT crews to move in and clear the debris. The southbound frontage road is expected to be re-opened by Monday



Some employees who worked in the affected building were allowed back in today to salvage what belongings they could. Cars that had been parked in the parts of the parking lot now enclosed by the chain link fence remain. People are still gathering at the Gateway Shopping Center to view the damage.

Reporters have repeatedly asked whether Stack used some kind of acellerant and/or a timer in the house fire, but investigators are still not sure. Now that I think about it, he could have used a timer to set his house on fire. The wife and step-daughter had apparently spent the night in a hotel the night before and I kind of got the impression they may have come back to get some belongings. If all three had been in the home when the husband started the fire, it seems like the wife and daughter would have just run out. If the husband was already gone and the fire was started with a timer, then they might have been caught unaware. Also, the fire was called in at 9:15 and the pilot took off at 9:41. 26 minutes seems to be a short amount of time to drive up to Georgetown, get to the airport, get in the plane and take off.

Shawn Rutherford (KXAN's morning weatherman) had a pretty good little report using google maps showing the location of the home, the Georgetown Airport, the Gateway Shopping Center and the Echelon Office Park.

KXAN Report - Google View Of Pilot's Deadly Path

NTSB is no longer investigating and the matter has been turned over to the FBI.

The person taken to Brackenridge Hospital was treated for smoke inhalation and was released. The other person who went to Seton Hospital and was stabilized before being sent to Brooke Army Medical Center in San Antonio has burs over 25% of his body (mostly neck, chest and back) is in good spirits.

LoneStarMike

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: ULMFlyer
Posted 2010-02-19 21:14:00 and read 5665 times.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 133):

Maybe he loaded some additional flammable material into his plane before he took off.
Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 135):
Reporters have repeatedly asked whether Stack used some kind of acellerant and/or a timer in the house fire, but investigators are still not sure

CNN is reporting that MD11Engineer was right:

Quote:
The official, who would not speak on the record because it is an ongoing case, said investigators have determined that the Piper Cherokee PA-28 had several seats removed and that a fuel drum was missing from the airport from which Andrew Joseph "Joe" Stack III took off Thursday morning.

The pilot's last transmissions were recorded and he sounds normal: http://www.avweb.com/other/austincrashaudiostack.mp3

GTU is under a TFR per this NOTAM: http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_0_7076.html

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: LoneStarMike
Posted 2010-02-19 21:32:53 and read 5651 times.

And in a twist of irony, Stack, who played keyboard and guitar, was captured on video playing with the band "Last Straw" on KTBC-TV in March 2007. They performed a song called "Over the Edge."

Video

LoneStarMike

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: soon7x7
Posted 2010-02-20 06:45:38 and read 5529 times.

Quoting ULMFlyer (Reply 130):

I'm just rying to point out that it's pretty clear he was a guy that just got pushed to the limit and snapped, I'm not justifying what he did at all...heck, he set his own house on fire with his wife and daughter inside...clearly not a level headed individual to say the least however, just because he used the same approach (punn) as the terrorists have used, does not classify him as a terrorist...he was a broken man and who knows what the IRS had stacked (punn) up against this guy...but I,m sure his resolve included..."over my dead body will you take my home and my plane/possessions" (spelling?).
clearly not the same motives as demonstrated by terrorists. FBI's guidelines to terrorism?...I honestly didn't read them and what you say about them I'm sure is true. But as is occuring globaly, many people are in financial ruins and for one reason or another are loosing a lot...this incident is a symptom of a sick man, of a sick society. However dastardly his action, I feel for someone that gets pushed that far over the edge, what appeared to be a fun loving guy turned mass murderer. He won't be the last one.

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 134):

It's relevant where my point is concerned but of course, I'm in agreement 100%, not justified under any circumstances. Just on the basis of having been a pilot...every time you climb into the cockpit, you just gotta love flying, despite all else in your life that sucks...why would you at least want to give up that, by killing yourself and others. In my life I could walk away from my home, my job, my boat...but never flying!...Life here in America has changed a great deal recently and the population at large is fed up with a lot. Some people will deal with it well and obviously others will not. for those that do not...doesn't rate them as terrorists...and when I see a another broken American, I wouldn't further insult his situation by cheaply calling him a terrorist as so many have. Terrorists are bottom feeders. Mr. Mcveigh was one such character. I reserve that term for societies scum...not broken people...J

Topic: RE: Small Plane Crashes Into Office Bldg In AUS
Username: F9Animal
Posted 2010-02-20 07:29:50 and read 5517 times.

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 135):
If all three had been in the home when the husband started the fire, it seems like the wife and daughter would have just run out. If the husband was already gone and the fire was started with a timer, then they might have been caught unaware.

If his wife and kid would have been home, he probably would have taken their lives. He obviously was not sane. He also did not seem to have much regard for his living family, or he would not have burned the home down. Pretty selfish act if you ask me.

Quoting ULMFlyer (Reply 136):
The pilot's last transmissions were recorded and he sounds normal: http://www.avweb.com/other/austincra...k.mp3

Very interesting. He sounded normal, until they asked direction of travel. His voice and behavior kind of changed.

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 137):
And in a twist of irony, Stack, who played keyboard and guitar, was captured on video playing with the band "Last Straw" on KTBC-TV in March 2007. They performed a song called "Over the Edge."

Video

LoneStarMike

BARF!!! The lady must have tried out on American Idol and was told to leave. What an awful voice!


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