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Topic: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: Normie999
Posted 2010-02-04 08:16:46 and read 11237 times.

Apparently someone at Air Asia X has raised the possibility that the airline will choose not to have even a basic IFE system on some of the aircraft it has on order. The reason given is that

"in-flight entertainment has now moved on – people have their own i-pods, dvd players and pc’s for use on-board"

- to which I suppose you can add the fact that their long-range LCC business model could well do without the weight and expense of the system adding to its bills. The quote and backgound is from here:

http://insidetraveller.co.uk/blog/?p=794

(I can't find who said this at Air Asia X, but it doesn't seem to be Tony Fernandes.)

Putting aside Air Asia X's particular LCC niche, do you not think there is some truth to this? A growing number of people (not just those under 25) I'm sure would prefer listening to their own MP3 player rather than what the system provides, or watching their own DVD selection for that matter. Also I know that on more than one occasion I would have much preferred to forgo the "state-of-the-art" IFE system (Jet Airways coming to mind) rather than the space taken up at feet level by a large control box under the seat in front of me.

Where next for IFE?

Apologies if this subject has already been raised - I did have a look but couldn't find anything.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: SvenvdM
Posted 2010-02-04 08:19:15 and read 11227 times.

There is some truth to that. Problem still is that most carriers don't provide electrical sockets in Economy Class.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2010-02-04 08:22:20 and read 11196 times.



Quoting Normie999 (Thread starter):
"in-flight entertainment has now moved on – people have their own i-pods, dvd players and pc’s for use on-board"

I think that's 100% true, plus if you have IFE, people don't pay a premium for it, ever. And when you charge for it, you're lucky to get a third of the passengers paying, which doesn't cover the cost of the IFE. Give passengers a plug and let them bring their own entertainment.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: DLPMMM
Posted 2010-02-04 08:33:57 and read 11110 times.

Most LCCs don't have any IFE, so I don't think this is a surprising move by Air Asia X. They tried IFE in their LCC model and find it is not cost effective.

The non-LCC carriers seem to be going the other way. DL and other major carriers are putting AVOD on their aircraft (even in economy class on domestic aircraft).

I personally don't want to carry a bunch of DVDs around on my trips and I don't want to listen to ipod music for 14 hours straight on a regular basis, but I fly more than most people.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: FlyKev
Posted 2010-02-04 08:40:07 and read 11056 times.

I'm going to have to disagree with the above.
Many airlines it seems are spending millions in upgrading their entertainment offerings ie.NZ, EK, CO etc ; and whilst for the low cost options (Air Asia X etc.) its a viable option to not have any form of IFE, for mainstream airlines it simply isn't.
A good example for me was my last flight to SFO with VS. I had the choice of my iPhone, or the V:Port system.

The V:Port system offered me the choice of 50+ movies on a decent sized screen, versus the 3 or 4 I had crammed onto my iPhone (I like to have backups incase the IFE doesn't work) with its small sized screen and no comfortable way of propping it up.

Additionally, during periods of turbulance, or meal service the IFE continues to work - whearas if your watching a movie on your netbook; wheres the space for both meal tray and netbook?
On short hops to Europe and such for me, yes my iPhone is perfect; but for a longer trip I'd rather have to option of a larger screen, a large choice of movies and no worries about my battery running out. Whilst its great to offer a plug socket, theres no guarantee that someones plug will fit, not to mention the possible dangers of unsafe, uncertifed batteries charging in a cabin at FL350.

Kev.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: 764
Posted 2010-02-04 08:43:55 and read 11048 times.



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
I think that's 100% true, plus if you have IFE, people don't pay a premium for it, ever. And when you charge for it, you're lucky to get a third of the passengers paying, which doesn't cover the cost of the IFE. Give passengers a plug and let them bring their own entertainment.

Hmmm.... actually I have in the past repeatedly chosen (occasionally more expensive) airlines that had better IFE, so at least this weird frequent flier does pay a premium for it.

That being said, I would agree that many people carry on their own entertainment, so IFE may become a little obsolete, BUT:

- What if some new regulation bans devices such as laptops from being used at certain times or potentially at all? Considering the DHS response to past security risks, this is entirely possibly.

- Are passengers allowed to use decent GPS receivers and/or could the aircraft provide such data through a USB system? The one thing I enjoy most about IFE is being able to tell exactly where I am, what the estimated remaining flying time is, etc. Give me that on my notebook and I'll be fint.

- Most importantly: With seats being as tight as they are, I would currently rather use the IFE than have to balance a notebook on my lap and/or fold down the table restricting my leg movement even more.

Overall, I hope that IFE will stay around. And hey, IFE doesn't have to cost the airline anything. Have you flown Delta recently? Their entertainment program has gotten quite "ad infested" already. So IFE can apparently be used for profit generation. Maybe this cost center is actually a profit center? Just a thought.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: Ammunition
Posted 2010-02-04 09:01:44 and read 10957 times.

I agree with Air Asia and would myself much rather a plug socket or a usb point to charge my ipod/mp3, maybe even wirelessly streamed media onboard.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: AirRyan
Posted 2010-02-04 09:05:42 and read 10944 times.

An argument could be made for IFE being unnecessary and not worth the price of admission, but WiFi has to be a must and all the more so today. I like WN's decision to go with Row44 and use sat based comms versus ground based tower ops; if Row44 were publically traded on the market, they would be one to invest in.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: Imag
Posted 2010-02-04 09:29:46 and read 10804 times.

It's an interesting point and has got some weight behind it. In my experience of flying there doesn't seem to be a lot of people with laptops/iPhones/portable DVD's. The PTV seems to win most of the time. As for me, I prefer to fly an airline with PTV's. I don't have an iPhone and would rather not carry my laptop on holiday just to have something to watch on the plane.

Nothing beats re-runs of House over the Atlantic.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: Vasu
Posted 2010-02-04 11:18:43 and read 10595 times.



Quoting 764 (Reply 5):
- Are passengers allowed to use decent GPS receivers and/or could the aircraft provide such data through a USB system? The one thing I enjoy most about IFE is being able to tell exactly where I am, what the estimated remaining flying time is, etc. Give me that on my notebook and I'll be fint.

Interesting point - I wonder if anyone can elaborate on it? It would be the first "issue" I can think of... though sadly I doubt 90% of pax would care if it wasn't there  

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: SuperDash
Posted 2010-02-04 12:18:20 and read 10461 times.

I know people on this board love IFE/AVOD. But I have to say, I have never booked a flight because of what the plane has on it. It's purely about fare and schedule. On flights that have had IFE or Wifi, I have yet buy the product. I have a computer and an iPod and I don't mind a good book. That's my way of flying. Even if United charged for Channel 9, I would gladly go without.

I think that Wifi makes good sense, but it has limits and apparently it has a real big drop off in customers paying for it as the price goes from free to north of free. IFE makes more sense on long haul planes, but for short hauls why carry the equipment around? Just my  twocents 

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: SATexan
Posted 2010-02-04 13:39:44 and read 10302 times.



Quoting Normie999 (Thread starter):
Where next for IFE?

In my opinion, the days of IFE are clearly inching towards an end atleast in the USA and most developed countries. The hand held personal entertainment system will become so advanced (iPad for instance) in the next decade that the airline IFEs will become an obsolete concept. Thats why it is unwise for any airline to invest on PTVs at this time. The priority should be investing on Wi-fi and having power outlets under every seat.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: DesertJets
Posted 2010-02-04 14:07:12 and read 10192 times.



Quoting SATexan (Reply 11):
In my opinion, the days of IFE are clearly inching towards an end atleast in the USA and most developed countries. The hand held personal entertainment system will become so advanced (iPad for instance) in the next decade that the airline IFEs will become an obsolete concept. Thats why it is unwise for any airline to invest on PTVs at this time. The priority should be investing on Wi-fi and having power outlets under every seat.

In a decades time maybe, but in the meantime a good AVOD IFE system is a pretty good way to pass the time on a long flight. I don't have to carry along a laptop or portable DVD player or watch stuff on a tiny iPod screen. As it stands now AVOD systems seem to offer a good variety of programming choices that most anybody could want.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: DLPMMM
Posted 2010-02-04 16:44:10 and read 9982 times.

Quoting SATexan (Reply 11):
In my opinion, the days of IFE are clearly inching towards an end atleast in the USA and most developed countries. The hand held personal entertainment system will become so advanced (iPad for instance) in the next decade that the airline IFEs will become an obsolete concept. Thats why it is unwise for any airline to invest on PTVs at this time. The priority should be investing on Wi-fi and having power outlets under every seat.

????

In the USA, AVOD has been rapidly expanding in the past few years. B6 kicked it off a few years ago on the domestic front. DL followed with Song. VX promotes it. In the last year, DL has announced expansion of AVOD to all mainline domestic aircraft except for the MDs, CO has announced AVOD installation of a new domestic AVOD system. I'm not sure about UA or US.

Where is this inching to an end you are talking about?

What USA airline has removed AVOD from it's planes?

You might believe the view you propounded, but it is your personal opinion and not even close to being factually sound.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: SurfandSnow
Posted 2010-02-04 16:48:21 and read 9959 times.

Air Asia X is a LOW COST AIRLINE. As such, I would expect that frills such as free food and entertainment are not available. If they offer significantly lower fares, why should people expect anything more than a plain old seat and access to a bathroom?

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: M11Stephen
Posted 2010-02-04 16:59:01 and read 9922 times.

I'd prefer to have a wifi and power outlet vs. on demand IFE. It seems like everyone these days has either a Blackberry, iPod, Netbook, iPhone, laptop, etc. that can pick up WIFI. I doubt IFE will be removed from long haul planes on full service carriers but its really unnecessary to add it to domestic aircraft and on LCC carriers.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2010-02-04 17:46:58 and read 9828 times.

I think it depends.

If there is WiFI and power, then it's true; IFE may become unnecessary, especially in an age of iPods and tablets.

Without power for those devices, that's not a good solution for flights >3 hrs, which is long as most laptops can go.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: Macsog6
Posted 2010-02-04 17:50:40 and read 9813 times.

IFE, as it exists today, is past the use by date. It has become little more than a rehash of old TV sitcoms and B movies, both complete with commercials. On my recent trips from the US to Australia, Japan, and Europe, I brought along my laptop (which I need to carry along for work) and a handful of DVD's along with a premium set of headphones. I plugged into the power outlet, and watched what I wanted to see without having to watch any of the other filler, wait while the flight attendant re-booted the system two or three times, and other such nuisances.

When I wanted to sleep, I plugged the smae headphones into my iPod (but could have still used my laptop instead) and listened while I slept to soothing music that did not repeat every few hours.

IFE needs be updated massively and soon or it too will go the way of the smoking sections.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: flytravel
Posted 2010-02-04 21:30:59 and read 9618 times.

Re: power outlets under every seat.
Just curious:
Would it pose a safety hazard with kids poking around, and/or liquids (spilled water/soft drinks) possibly seeping into the outlets?

I think the bare minimum IFE that should be put in, that likely isn't too costly is a source of streaming commercial free music, whether its from a CD Muzak source (but with a number of stations), WiFi Pandora or satellite radio.

[Edited 2010-02-04 21:32:53]

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: web500sjc
Posted 2010-02-04 21:45:54 and read 9575 times.

Sorry but IFE is a big chioce in my chioce, when I have one, it used to be B6 was my airline of chioce, but now o can easily go with DL. the IFE makes those trans-cons much more barable, espesially when it is live TV, except on red-eyes. I can't see the end of IFE unless every seat has a usable plug, and free wifi, but that's not comming anytime soon as the trend in airlines is to charge for anything that isn't bolted to the floor.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2010-02-04 22:00:50 and read 9532 times.

I think IFE might have to change but it's not going to disappear. I always bring an iPod and a laptop with me on the plane but I still use the IFE system, for:

a) either live or newly-recorded TV, especially news
b) the map display and external camera views (especially when they close all the shades and I'm in the middle)
c) music that I don't have and would never get a chance to hear otherwise, especially foreign music
d) movies that I would have never thought to buy or rent

In the future, I think live TV is going to be the major selling point of IFE systems. I can't believe more airlines don't already have it.

I do think that any system that isn't on-demand and that doesn't offer 40 movies or more is kind of a waste. Once you get to that point, there's going to be something that pretty much everybody on the plane would want to watch and didn't bring with them.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: TheCommodore
Posted 2010-02-04 22:04:56 and read 9523 times.

Quoting Normie999 (Thread starter):
do you not think there is some truth to this?

Yes I think there is some truth to it, especially when it come down to music.

And alot of people travel with laptops nowadays so they can watch movies they already downloaded.

But I do love having a screen to fiddle with, really like the new style touch screens, on some airlines, very swanky !!

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: SASD209
Posted 2010-02-04 22:26:01 and read 9492 times.

Quoting SuperDash (Reply 10):
I know people on this board love IFE/AVOD. But I have to say, I have never booked a flight because of what the plane has on it. It's purely about fare and schedule. On flights that have had IFE or Wifi, I have yet buy the product. I have a computer and an iPod and I don't mind a good book. That's my way of flying. Even if United charged for Channel 9, I would gladly go without.

I think that Wifi makes good sense, but it has limits and apparently it has a real big drop off in customers paying for it as the price goes from free to north of free. IFE makes more sense on long haul planes, but for short hauls why carry the equipment around? Just my twocents

I could not agree more. When in the States, I fly AirTran when possible and Blue1 at home. I always bring my iPod and my netbook and plan to amuse myself whilst flying. I no longer bother to see what the IFE is on transAtlantic flights as I bring my own (with a paperback as a backup lol). In this day and age, I'd rather an airline invest in a standard AC outlet + USB outlet for every seat than an IFE system.....I also do not partake, esp when it is available for a fee. Of course I'd like WiFi on my flights, but I'm certainly not willing to pay for it. Perhaps they can substitute the IFE for free WiFi availability? I don't know what the economics would be for the airline, but I'd much rather be persuaded with free WiFi than free IFE. Just my opinion.

SASD209

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: SATexan
Posted 2010-02-04 22:48:36 and read 9443 times.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 13):
You might believe the view you propounded, but it is your personal opinion

As I clearly stated, it is my opinion. I also stated as an opinion that airlines would be unwise to make such an investment.
I should clarify that my comments were directed at the IFE in domestic and medium haul flights. If the airlines try to catch up with every hand held entertainment device they will only be adding extra hardware that could affect the flight economics.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 13):
B6 kicked it off a few years ago on the domestic front. DL followed with Song. VX promotes it

B6 and VX had to offer these simply to distinguish themselves from the legacy carriers that did not offer them. Else what would be the incentive to fly them ?

Quoting Macsog6 (Reply 17):
IFE needs be updated massively

Exactly!

and dont forget the maintanence. How many times have we not seen a button on our IFE remote not work?

Further, most parents flying with small children will have some kind of books, gameboys or nintendo ds device that the children will engage in. The kids will be very familiar with their personal entertainment devices as opposed to navigating the IFE system.

Furthermore, with the limited seat pitch in Y, it is often hard to manoevre your remote and headsets of the IFE. Compared to this your handheld devices are way easier to handle in domestic Y. You can stow them in the seat back pocket in front of you or on the tray table.

Hence I agree with the quote from the Air Asia exec:

Quoting Normie999 (Thread starter):
"in-flight entertainment has now moved on people have their own i-pods, dvd players and pcs for use on-board"

Aww..he could have shown some love to books and Kindle

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: kanban
Posted 2010-02-05 06:34:19 and read 7657 times.

what ever happened to just bringing a book? I never liked IFE . This 'need' for some form of elecrtic entertainment is electronics industry driven... I've sat in rows where I-Pods were turned up so loud you could hear them 2 seats away... and videos can be seen at an angle are distracting ... I applaud this move... Bring a book it's quiet, needs no special wiring, and is not distracting to others.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: brilondon
Posted 2010-02-05 07:29:41 and read 7251 times.

Quoting FlyKev (Reply 4):
The V:Port system offered me the choice of 50+ movies on a decent sized screen, versus the 3 or 4 I had crammed onto my iPhone (I like to have backups incase the IFE doesn't work) with its small sized screen and no comfortable way of propping it up.

This is a good system except that the selection of movies is limited to 30 or 40 movies of which about two or three hold any entertainment value. In the U.S. they have the usual Hollywood drivel and ,maybe two or three foreign films that maybe of interest. Once you have watched them your stuck with crap.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 13):
DL has announced expansion of AVOD to all mainline domestic aircraft except for the MDs,



I don't think that you need to have AVOD on flights that are less then four hours do you?

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 13):
What USA airline has removed AVOD from it's planes?

Your myopic view being limited to the U.S. should tell you that there are airlines in this world that have removed it from their airplanes. Air AsiaX is the airline the OP quoted that as far as I know is not a U.S. based carrier.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: web500sjc
Posted 2010-02-05 08:10:09 and read 6917 times.

the problem with substituting wifi in for AVOD is that then there needs to be a universal power port for every seat, after 3 hours nothing using wifi will have any battery left to use it. also there is no piont in having wifi on an airplane unless the airline is going to charge for it, atleast with AVOD they can sell advertising space.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: FlyDeltaJets87
Posted 2010-02-05 08:16:44 and read 6938 times.

If the IFE is there and it's free, I'll use it. If it's not, well, it's never been a selling point to me. My favorite feature is often the moving map anyway. That said, one time I have found the seatback tv really nice over the laptop is while eating. Unless the tray table comes out of the armrest, I cannot have both the laptop out and the tray table down (or at least the tray table down and free to put food on). The few times I've gotten a meal, it's been kinda nice to continue watching my movie on the PTV without having to pause it or turn off the laptop and put it away to make room for my food. Also, not everyone has a charging port that is adaptable for the airplane (I certainly don't), and my laptop, when the battery was new, was good for about one movie (approximately 2.5-3 hours). That still leaves a lot of free time on an 10 hour flight. Plus, having the laptop out is such a hassle when you or the person next to you needs to get up. (On the other hand, when the F/A comes on the PA to tell me about the airline's credit card, it's nice that my laptop movie isn't temporarily paused).

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: maddog888
Posted 2010-02-05 08:43:14 and read 6780 times.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 27):
My favorite feature is often the moving map anyway.

mine too, it really makes a case for IFE - along with the radio chatter and external camera views ( although sadly I have never been on a flight with those). But did I miss something? I thought, after the Xmas day attack, Homeland Security had banned it When was it reinstated?

Julian

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: BeechNut
Posted 2010-02-05 08:52:23 and read 6778 times.

I've been traveling long enough to remember when IFE meant a good book and eyeing the cute stewardess 

Beechnut

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: web500sjc
Posted 2010-02-05 08:56:01 and read 6744 times.

yes but now the air stewarseses in the US ain't that young, somthing about unions.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: brilondon
Posted 2010-02-05 09:38:10 and read 6669 times.

Quoting maddog888 (Reply 28):
But did I miss something? I thought, after the Xmas day attack, Homeland Security had banned it When was it reinstated?

Officially it is up to the Captain whether to use it or not and they usually have it on. It does get tuned on only after about twenty minutes into the flight and turned off about twenty minutes from the end. I do agree the only feature the I like is the moving map which I have on when I fly and watch my laptop for the movies I want to watch. I always am able to hook into the power supply and I don't know what you are talking about.


Quoting BeechNut (Reply 29):
I've been traveling long enough to remember when IFE meant a good book and eyeing the cute stewardess

Unfortunately the same stews are still working today and aren't so cute any more so IFE means for me to keep my head buried in a good book and hope like hell I don't have to look up.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: FlyDeltaJets87
Posted 2010-02-05 11:51:25 and read 6526 times.

Quoting maddog888 (Reply 28):
mine too, it really makes a case for IFE - along with the radio chatter and external camera views ( although sadly I have never been on a flight with those). But did I miss something? I thought, after the Xmas day attack, Homeland Security had banned it When was it reinstated?

Supposedly it was only on an international flights, because I flew out to California from Florida not too long after and we had the moving map. Besides, maybe someone caught on and figured out "I guess they can figure out when they're over land by simply looking out the window" or by the announcement "We're begining our descent into XYZ".

Oh, and for external camera views, I know TK (Turkish) has them on the A340. I've only experienced Channel 9 once, since I've only flown UA once (and once was more than enough too...)

Quoting BeechNut (Reply 29):
I've been traveling long enough to remember when IFE meant a good book and eyeing the cute stewardess

Damn you're OLD.   

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: DLPMMM
Posted 2010-02-05 11:53:41 and read 6497 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 25):
Your myopic view being limited to the U.S. should tell you that there are airlines in this world that have removed it from their airplanes. Air AsiaX is the airline the OP quoted that as far as I know is not a U.S. based carrier.

If you would read the post I was replying to:

Quoting SATexan (Reply 11):
In my opinion, the days of IFE are clearly inching towards an end atleast in the USA and most developed countries

SATexan specifically refered to the USA and developed countries.

In an earlier post I responded to the OP about Air Asia X:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 3):
Most LCCs don't have any IFE, so I don't think this is a surprising move by Air Asia X. They tried IFE in their LCC model and find it is not cost effective.

The non-LCC carriers seem to be going the other way. DL and other major carriers are putting AVOD on their aircraft (even in economy class on domestic aircraft).

Would you care to now retract your statement and your insult?

Quoting SATexan (Reply 23):
B6 and VX had to offer these simply to distinguish themselves from the legacy carriers that did not offer them. Else what would be the incentive to fly them ?

And the legacies are now adopting AVOD on domestic aircraft as well. That looks like the investment in AVOD on domestic aircraft is expanding in the USA market, just the opposite of your premise.

Quoting SATexan (Reply 11):
In my opinion, the days of IFE are clearly inching towards an end atleast in the USA and most developed countries.


I really don't care to watch a movie on a iPod sized screen because I can't see that well and I don't care to haul out a laptop and buy a bunch of DVDs. I have too much I need to carry now. I like having live TV on transcon flights to watch the news or a live sporting event.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2010-02-05 12:09:39 and read 6429 times.

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 12):
In a decades time maybe, but in the meantime a good AVOD IFE system is a pretty good way to pass the time on a long flight. I don't have to carry along a laptop or portable DVD player or watch stuff on a tiny iPod screen. As it stands now AVOD systems seem to offer a good variety of programming choices that most anybody could want.

A book or magazine is enough for me to pass the time. IFE has never been a priority and I would gladly do without it. It would also free up a lot of underseat space now taken up by the IFE control boxes. On many flights I notice a high percentage of passengers never use the IFE. About the only thing I use is the map displayh to see where we are, but I could easily do without that also. It's certainly never a factor when I am booking a flight. Most passengers only care about getting the lowest fare these days.

IFE systems also seem very unreliable and must add a lot to maintenance costs, which passengers are paying for. I would guess that it hasn't worked perfecty on at least half my flights.

I find it strange that everyone seems to expect IFE now when they did quite happily without it until the 1970s. My first longhaul flight was a 10 hour nonstop on a DC-8 with absolutely no IFE, and it was a much more pleasant flight than most Y class flights today.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: SATexan
Posted 2010-02-05 13:33:42 and read 6267 times.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 33):
And the legacies are now adopting AVOD on domestic aircraft as well.

Just in the last month I have flown on AA, CO and US. None of them had AVOD or PTVs or Live TV in Economy. AA isnt even putting PTVs in the Economy class on their brand new 737s which in my opinion again is a very wise decision.

Here is a good link:

http://www.seatguru.com/charts/shorthaul_economy.php

Most short haul domestic flights across the world dont have PTVs in Y.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: cobra27
Posted 2010-02-05 14:02:56 and read 6158 times.

Mybe AirAisa doesn't want those expensive IFes that company offers for billions of dollars. Its like buying a car which has radio installed in factory. It is expensive and crapy

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: DLPMMM
Posted 2010-02-05 18:21:29 and read 5948 times.

[quote=SATexan,reply=35]Just in the last month I have flown on AA, CO and US. None of them had AVOD or PTVs or Live TV in Economy. AA isnt even putting PTVs in the Economy class on their brand new 737s which in my opinion again is a very wise decision.

You are entitled to your opinion.

Facts say that the AVOD usage on domestic North American (and worldwide) is growing. You can look at your own link to see that, as just a few years ago there was almost no airlines with AVOD on narrow bodied planes.

I thought the Kingfisher plane I took from BLR to BOM in November had a very nice live TV system, as did the DL 757s I was on between ATL and SFO last week.

For 1-2 hour flights AVOD is not important, that is why planes like MDs,DCs, and most RJs will likely never be outfitted with it.

Transcon flights are another matter.

What you are missing is that the same technology you are espousing will religate AVOD to the trash heap will likely be AVOD's savior.

The next generation of AVOD will be wireless.

The price for the touchscreen in the seat will cost little extra over the cost of a seat with no screen.

The price and weight of wiring will be largely eliminated.

The cost of installation will be running a canned program to identify each screen to the IFE main.

The system cost will be little in relation to the plane cost.

Most Importantly...the system provides for incremental revenue streams.

Also please note that the OP's article said only that Air Asia X is CONSIDERING not getting IFE on some future aircraft. The article gives no source and is mostly an opinion piece on airplane IFE relevency.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: skyone
Posted 2010-02-05 23:35:53 and read 5779 times.

After reading all posts, it comes to my mind the MEX-MAD route. Having AM with its 777 and PTV/AVOD in Y vs. IB with the A340 without PTV/AVOD, and now MX with PTV/AVOD. I have never heard of any of my friends, family buying a ticket for the sole purpose of having it. Every person that calls me looking to fly to MAD from MEX nonstop is always concerned about the price and schedule, but mainly on the price of the ticket. That is why IB has a pretty good share of this market.

So this takes me to the decision of IB not putting PTVs in Y in all its A340s. They have not lost market share because of it, as many Anetters here suggest, can take Laptops, Iphones, IPads (shortly, LOL), etc into the plane, so everything can be solved by adding power ports into each seat. I sometimes book myself on IB instead of AA (OneWorld Elite) because they offer ultra low fares on this market and don t care flying 12 hours without a PTV, but prepare for it with books and laptop. So for me, PTV is just an extra that people aren t willing to pay, as what happened with food in short haul flights in the US and Europe.

[Edited 2010-02-05 23:37:10]

[Edited 2010-02-05 23:38:21]

[Edited 2010-02-05 23:39:12]

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: SASD209
Posted 2010-02-05 23:57:45 and read 5737 times.

Quoting skyone (Reply 38):
Every person that calls me looking to fly to MAD from MEX nonstop is always concerned about the price and schedule, but mainly on the price of the ticket.

this is how I book my flights....

Quoting skyone (Reply 38):
so everything can be solved by adding power ports into each seat

Agreed.

Quoting skyone (Reply 38):
So for me, PTV is just an extra that people aren t willing to pay, as what happened with food in short haul flights in the US and Europe.

Also agreed. As i can bring my own entertainment aboard, I also bring my own food/drink aboard.

Quoting skyone (Reply 38):
PTV/AVOD. I have never heard of any of my friends, family buying a ticket for the sole purpose of having it.

i certainly never have.


Regards,
SASD209

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: normie999
Posted 2010-02-06 10:40:11 and read 5474 times.

Crankyflier comments on Southwest installing wifi fleetwide here

http://crankyflier.com/2010/02/04/so...lling-wireless-internet-fleetwide/

Again the LCC approach perhaps -

"For an airline that has done a good job of avoiding inflight entertainment like the plague, Southwest sure is diving right in when it comes to wireless internet service. The deal is done and wifi will start rolling out aggressively next quarter."

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: SATexan
Posted 2010-02-06 11:27:00 and read 5419 times.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 37):
I thought the Kingfisher plane I took from BLR to BOM in November had a very nice live TV system

Kingfisher also offers full fledged meal service, hot towels, great crew and free checked bags in addition to AVOD in medium haul flights. They maintain a consistent product on their mainline domestic and international flights and truly deliver a high-quality onboard experience. The same cannot be said of DL or other US airlines.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 37):
For 1-2 hour flights AVOD is not important, that is why planes like MDs,DCs, and most RJs will likely never be outfitted with it.

BOM-BLR is 1.5 hours and yet IT has AVOD and many other things mentioned above. Its all about product consistency and providing value for money. The in flight service that you get on BOM-LHR on IT is the same that you get on any mainline IT domestic flight.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 37):
The next generation of AVOD will be wireless

The technology is not there yet and the economics of such an IFE is not known. What we do know is that newer hand held personal entertainment systems are emerging consistetly and most passengers flying now a days will have some kind of entertainment systems that will make them less dependent on IFE.

Besides whats the point of an airline providing wireless AVOD while continuing to charge for basic services like checked bags and food /drinks?

Quoting SASD209 (Reply 39):
this is how I book my flights

Same here..

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: DeltaRules
Posted 2010-02-06 12:30:54 and read 5358 times.

My laptop with DVD player's battery endurance is hideous, with about an hour and a half worth of battery life if I'm lucky and if it starts up quickly (which it usually doesn't).

I'll take my PTV, please.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2010-02-06 12:51:02 and read 5339 times.

Can I just say that in 2005, I flew ANA from NRT-JFK, and somehow we ended up getting substituted a short-haul 747 for the regular 747's they use on that route (which are outfitted for a prestige route), and it had no IFE whatsoever. Not even an in-flight movie on a giant screen like in the old days.

It was the most boring flight I've ever been on. And yes, I had an iPod and a GameBoy with me.

Let's face it: unless we've just bought a bunch of albums, we've all heard the music on our iPods a million times. And nobody wants to watch movies on a screen that tiny for 14 hours. I exhausted the two magazines I'd bought within the first two hours of the flight. If I'd just bought a really addictive game, that might have carried me through, but unfortunately I didn't think I'd need to. Anyway, a game's like $30 minimum, I'd rather just pay $10 for IFE and then not have the risk of getting a crappy game and still not having anything to do during the flight.

Yes, I could have just read a book. That's true, and I don't disrespect people that do that. But it's nice to have a choice to do something else, and to actually see or hear some things that I haven't before.

I still say the best thing about in-flight IFE is that it lets you see and hear stuff that you wouldn't otherwise. I think if airlines are going out of their way to give you the same stuff you'd be bringing with you on your iPod, then they're doing it wrong. Thankfully, I actually don't think most airlines with the more advanced systems do that. They usually have a good mix of mainstream and niche stuff. And that's what makes IFE systems fun, once you get bored of the stuff you brought with you.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: DLPMMM
Posted 2010-02-06 12:56:03 and read 5323 times.

Quoting SATexan (Reply 41):
BOM-BLR is 1.5 hours and yet IT has AVOD and many other things mentioned above. Its all about product consistency and providing value for money. The in flight service that you get on BOM-LHR on IT is the same that you get on any mainline IT domestic flight.

If you would look at your own link above you would see that Kingfisher does not have AVOD or even IFE on all of their planes, indeed not even on all of their A319s and A320s. The service is also very different on longhaul verses domestic shorthaul.

Quoting SATexan (Reply 41):
Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 37):
The next generation of AVOD will be wireless

The technology is not there yet and the economics of such an IFE is not known.

That is why it is called "next generation" and Thales is very close to introducing their version. The economics will be much better because it wont require the dedicated data hard wiring.

Quoting SATexan (Reply 41):
What we do know is that newer hand held personal entertainment systems are emerging consistetly and most passengers flying now a days will have some kind of entertainment systems that will make them less dependent on IFE.

I disagree with your assertion that most passengers have a portable entertainment system with them that they prefer to an in seat AVOD. Maybe most passengers under the age of 25, but that is hardly the airlines' primary target market.

I know that I don't want to watch movies on my iPhone because I can't see anything worthwhile on such a small screen, any you will probably feel the same way in 20 years when your eyes start going. A bigger screened device would require lots of toting and DVDs and batteries and clutter in the seat.....

Quoting SATexan (Reply 41):
Besides whats the point of an airline providing wireless AVOD while continuing to charge for basic services like checked bags and food /drinks?

Two words:

Extra Revenue

If you use Delta as an example, the TV is free, but the movies and HBO cost money (in Y).

Quoting SASD209 (Reply 39):
Quoting skyone (Reply 38):
PTV/AVOD. I have never heard of any of my friends, family buying a ticket for the sole purpose of having it.

i certainly never have.

I don't know of anyone who flies to watch AVOD, people fly to get somewhere.

If 2 flights are the same price and at the same time, and one has PTV and the other does not, which one would most people choose?

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: VonRichtofen
Posted 2010-02-06 13:00:16 and read 5295 times.

Having a laptop, or even a netbook in front of your face in economy is annoying. Then packing it up when meal time comes is a pain in the ass.

The modern AVOD systems like AC's have up to date movies (some still in theatres) and popular TV series. Loads of Audio tracks etc.


I just returned from a trip over the pacific on JAL. Even though their IFE system is a bit dated, it still had a good choice of hollywood movies, plus some Japanese ones that were good. And the exterior camera is a great feature too.

For me part of the fun of flying foreign airlines is viewing/listening to some of their local media I'd otherwise never be exposed to.


With so many airlines adopting AVOD systems, I really doubt IFE will be going the way of the dodo just yet.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: SATexan
Posted 2010-02-07 01:01:54 and read 5050 times.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 44):
If you would look at your own link above you would see that Kingfisher does not have AVOD or even IFE on all of their planes, indeed not even on all of their A319s and A320s. The service is also very different on longhaul verses domestic shorthaul.

Hmm... You are talking about Kingfisher Red. Kingfisher Red is Kingfisher's LCC (formerly Air Deccan)on domestic routes.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: AAairplane
Posted 2010-02-17 17:51:59 and read 4547 times.

My opinion is: for flights of 2 to 4 or 5 hours, why do you need to go all out or nothing? Put a view overhead screens in and leave the armrest radio working, and that should be enough, especially with people bringing ipods and laptops! Its free, and doesn't cost much for the airline. For things over that, I appreciate PTVs, but under that time, it seems like a waste of money, even though I would use it if it were available! As far as CRJs, an absolute waste to install PTVs really, unless they are used on long haul flights! Thanks!

AAairplane

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: jbernie
Posted 2010-02-17 18:42:24 and read 4482 times.

The nice thing about the IFE options is that they normally have some movies or albums that I would not otherwise buy/rent to watch and can check them out on my 13 hour flights between SYD/MEL & LAX/SFO. I confess to watching Paul Blart Mall Cop or whatever it was the last time we were flying back to LAX on QF.

The bad thing about IFE options is that especially in the video offerings, some of the content can be edited which means you may not see all/understand all of the movie/tv show. I can remember seeing The Truth About Cats & Dogs when flying SYD-PER on QF in the mid 90s, saw it later that week with my then gf and saw all sorts of new things and didn't realize what was actually missing... thankfully the gf wasn't too prim & proper & offended  

The only thing I can see me really missing about no IFE these days would be the larger screen vs say an iPod Touch and the fact that you don't need to hold the screen to watch it (just in case you do actually fall asleep!).

Provide a USB plug for every seat that doesn't need to charge the device per say, just allow you to watch/listen all flight without draining the battery, and maybe 2 to 3 electrical outlets in each groups of seats in economy for people with laptops or portable dvd players.

That being said, people like my parents who don't own portable dvd players or fancy iPod's etc and who won't carry laptops with them are still in need of entertainment for long haul flights. Anything under 90 minutes I don't think it matters, 90-180 minutes is probably where you would want a couple of screens that everyone can see, beyond 3 hours and IFE at every seat becomes highly desirable.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: normie999
Posted 2010-02-25 02:54:49 and read 4154 times.

MICEBTN reports that Air Asia X

" is to remove the in-flight entertainment systems from seat backs. Instead, portable units will be offered to passengers to rent. "

(and also that it is to "introduce lie-flat beds on services to Australia and the UK at a price 'similar' to legacy airlines' economy seats.")

One plane has apparently already has been fitted with the new cabins, while the rest of the fleet is due to be retrofitted by June 2010, the airline says.

So air Asia X seems to be following through with its plan of downgrading its installed IFE fleetwide.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: LHR380
Posted 2010-02-25 03:13:06 and read 4117 times.

http://www.businesstraveller.com/new...-air-asiax-seating-for-london-kl-r

Here is where I heard about Air Asia X's new seats and IFE.

I don't see on long haul airlines anyone getting rid of IFE. BA seem to have realised people have their own media devices as the IFE in the new First seat are able to link up to these devices so they can be watched thru the IFE Screen.

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: LondonCity
Posted 2010-02-25 03:49:04 and read 4048 times.

Quoting LHR380 (Reply 50):
Air Asia X's new seats and IFE

In these "green" times when airlines are saving weight (and thus fuel) in various guises, I am surprised that IFE hasn't come under the spotlight before now.

Air AsiaX has begun fitting new economy and premium class seats to its A330s and A340s and none of these seats will have IFE. Although it seems the carrier will hire out portable devices later this year if and when a new entertainment device is found. I believe Air AsiaX already hires out a portable device on its A340 service between STN and KUL.

Quoted in the Business Traveller news piece above, Air AsiaX's CEO Azran Osman Rani says "Demand simply isn't there to cover the massive cost of the system, the Hollywood content and the extra weight and complexity of the wiring. We think portable units [these will be available for rental] are the way forward and we are hoping to debut these my mid year."

Let's face it ... a glass (?) screen on every seat plus the miles of cabling required must mean a significant weight penalty for an A340 flying 6,500 miles non-stop between STN and KUL.

And when you make the seating 3-3-3 in economy class - to accommodate an additional 53 pax - then won't the extra number of customers affect payload performance ?

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: mandala499
Posted 2010-02-25 04:06:05 and read 4001 times.

As much as one likes all the latest gizmos on the IFE, there is a significant difference in its usefulness for the airline when you have to pay extra for it or not...

If I pay US$1500 for a CGK-SIN-LHR on SQ it says that I will receive free IFE... and I'd probably whine if I get on a non-AVOD aircraft... and I'd probably still choose that instead of a US$1300 for a CGK-XXX-LHR/LGW on some other airline with no IFE...

If I pay US$500 for a CGK-KUL-STN on AK/QZ and D7, I have to already fork out some $$ for my food (pre-ordering is much cheaper)... now, would I pay extra for the IFE? Maybe yes, maybe no. I would weigh in what I'm going to do after I get out of the airport into my decision. If I have a full day ahead, I'd rather just shrug it off, not pay for it and just sleep (or try to)... If I'm going to sleep as soon as I reach my hotel... then I'd go and pay for the IFE...

Now if SQ decides to ask for $$$ for its IFE... I'd just sleep..

D7's decision is not about whether a pax wants the IFE or not... if it's included in the price, almost everyone wants it... but when you have to pay for it above your ticket price (no matter how cheap), then it's a totally different matter... ie: Not everyone wants the IFE...

It's all about the perceived value of any additional money you fork out in addition to the primary service, which is to get you from A to B.

Mandala400

Topic: RE: The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?
Username: sydaircargo
Posted 2010-02-25 08:12:16 and read 3834 times.

i woul dnot pay extra for IFE. flying FRA-PVG in March on MU, they only have overhead monitors in Eco on there A332.
will be the most boring longhaul flight ever. wonder why an airline still flies without IFE .


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