Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4771904/

Topic: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: LipeGIG
Posted 2010-04-09 15:52:40 and read 17628 times.

With part I already on almost 300 posts and too long for our A.net members without a good internet connection, please continue discussions here.

Link to First Part:

United And US Airways In Merger Talks (by bioyuki Apr 7 2010 in Civil Aviation)


Regards,

Felipe

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: thegreatRDU
Posted 2010-04-09 16:37:09 and read 17511 times.

I still believe CO is the best for UA....

This is the fourth time around for UA US merger talks....maybe the 4th is the charm?

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: PHLBOS
Posted 2010-04-09 16:42:17 and read 17463 times.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 1):
This is the fourth time around for UA US merger talks....maybe the 4th is the charm?

   I can only count three including this one, the 'original' in 2000 and another try in 2007-2008.

Was there another one?

[Edited 2010-04-09 16:59:04]

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: Tommy767
Posted 2010-04-09 16:50:57 and read 17419 times.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 2):
Was there another one?

US also tried to hitch themselves up with DL back in 2006 but there was a strong backlash from unions regarding the deal. So this would be the third time with UA, plus another with DL.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: PHLBOS
Posted 2010-04-09 16:58:33 and read 17365 times.

Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 3):
US also tried to hitch themselves up with DL back in 2006 but there was a strong backlash from unions regarding the deal. So this would be the third time with UA, plus another with DL.

No offence but, when one looks at his (thegreatRDU) earlier post (see below); he only mentions UA-US hook-ups and NOT the aborted US-DL merger of 2006:

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 1):
This is the fourth time around for UA US merger talks....maybe the 4th is the charm?

So, technically, this may be the 4th time for US (actually 5th when one counts that HP-merger which DID happen) this past decade; but I still only count three attempted UA-US merger talks (including this one).

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: RJ777
Posted 2010-04-09 18:06:17 and read 17098 times.

I just hope they wait until a definitive agreement is signed until they launch a website about it!

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: USAirALB
Posted 2010-04-09 18:24:15 and read 17005 times.

Quoting RJ777 (Reply 5):
they launch a website about it

what will be the names of the website now?

they already used transformingusairways.com and i forget what the HP/US website of..

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: USAirALB
Posted 2010-04-09 18:32:25 and read 16957 times.

Oh and, notice that CLT can sustain year round service to smaller sized cities in the Northeast. ATL can't.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: United1
Posted 2010-04-09 22:28:59 and read 16315 times.

According to ALPA the reports of merger discussions are being greatly overstated...

http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/stor...cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: mah4546
Posted 2010-04-09 23:28:58 and read 16180 times.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 7):
Oh and, notice that CLT can sustain year round service to smaller sized cities in the Northeast. ATL can't.

Markets? The only market which in the region with Charlotte service that does not have Atlanta service is Wilkes-Barre.

Other markets do have more capacity, but, regardless, that's a product of US Airways' network strength in the Northeast. It has nothing to do with the local Charlotte market.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: surfandsnow
Posted 2010-04-10 02:34:11 and read 15847 times.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 7):
Oh and, notice that CLT can sustain year round service to smaller sized cities in the Northeast. ATL can't.

Why is this relevant?!?

1) ATL can sustain year round service to smaller sized cities everywhere else (Florida, Deep South, Midwest, Western U.S., and int'l)

2) Should a UA/US merger occur, CLT-Northeast service would be drastically reduced. UA would focus on connecting Northeast pax through a strengthened IAD hub, while CLT would mainly serve as a gateway to the Deep South and possibly the Caribbean.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: OzarkD9S
Posted 2010-04-10 04:37:23 and read 15501 times.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 1):


I still believe CO is the best for UA....

So does CO apparently:

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/0...tinental-interested-in-merger.html


Continental Airlines Inc. would make the best merger partner for United Airlines, creating the world’s largest carrier, an analyst said Friday.

Executives at Continental started reviewing options this week after hearing that United is talking to US Airways Group Inc. about merging, according to a person familiar with the matter who asked not to be identified because details are confidential.

Together, Houston-based Continental and UAL Corp.’s United would surpass Delta Air Lines Inc. for the top spot in global passenger traffic.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: JFKMan
Posted 2010-04-10 05:04:57 and read 15367 times.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 11):
So does CO apparently:

Thats why I am willing to bet a triple merger will occur! UA/US/CO

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: Brandonfsu05
Posted 2010-04-10 07:53:57 and read 14498 times.

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 10):
Why is this relevant?!?

1) ATL can sustain year round service to smaller sized cities everywhere else (Florida, Deep South, Midwest, Western U.S., and int'l)

2) Should a UA/US merger occur, CLT-Northeast service would be drastically reduced. UA would focus on connecting Northeast pax through a strengthened IAD hub, while CLT would mainly serve as a gateway to the Deep South and possibly the Caribbean.

I think it's more obvious that PHL will be drawn down...CLT connects passengers to the northeast now and US Airways has a large hub in PHL. So, I don't understand why the service would be cut since if anything PHL hub will be folded into IAD and DCA. That leaves us basically with the same situation as US Airways is working with now.

Additionally...you do realize where a significant portion of Carribean pax come from...the Northeast and Canada. So If UA/US wants to continue a Carribean operation it wouldn't make since to reduce CLT-Northeast service.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: drerx7
Posted 2010-04-10 08:16:03 and read 14299 times.

I see this as the impetus for CO to walk down the aisle with UA. CO is who UA wants anyway.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: web500sjc
Posted 2010-04-10 08:26:51 and read 14216 times.

Quoting JFKMan (Reply 12):

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 11):
So does CO apparently:

Thats why I am willing to bet a triple merger will occur! UA/US/CO


I'd wait a second on that, it would be one or the other, and if COs talks are
serious I would expect CO and UA to try and tie the knot. I think UA dosent reallywant US, we all know what is going on as a result from the last US merger. Also with that triple merger it would have to go past DOJ aproval, which is a none exsistant to very slim chance of passing scince DL-NW almost didn't make it through, it kinda makes you wonder if a CO/UA wold make it through, let alone a CO/UA/US merger.

In these talks I expect UA to choose CO first, US second; but what I really want to se is what happens to the airline not picked to merge- will they pull a CO and switch to OW or Sky team as a result of the merger, because they would definatly be he odd man out.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: vctony
Posted 2010-04-10 08:34:29 and read 14170 times.

If CO and UA merge, US could be a good fit for AA. Back in the 1990s AA wanted US. US has some assets that AA could covet (like LGA slots - provided the slot swap with DL doesn't go through) and a strong market position in the Southeast. AA could also close down the PHX hub and relegate PHL to a focus city and use US's A32Xs to retire some additional Super80s.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: relaxitsfedex7
Posted 2010-04-10 08:44:45 and read 14096 times.

this is how It's going to go down, UA and CO will eventually end up merging with each other leaving USairways out to defend for itself . I surely don't think that AA and US will merge. Why because of labor issues between management and the unions.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: Flighty
Posted 2010-04-10 09:05:29 and read 13965 times.

The ball is really in CO's court. Either they bid for UA and acquire them, or else US will... basically. UA is fodder, they won't be the controlling manager of any of the prospective combos.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: HNL-Jack
Posted 2010-04-10 09:23:06 and read 13780 times.

As much as Tilton has professed merger as his chosen way to resolve the overly competitive U.S. based airline industry, I would seriously doubt that he would see a merger with US as the best route for UA to move forward. In the past eighteen months UA has taken too many steps to rebuild its management team, reduce debt, enhance service and restructure its fleet and route system to take such a huge step backward. Trying to overcome the issues still haunting US from its last
merger are simply too many and would likely get worse with even more complex union issues than have created such difficult situation at US. CO is the best fit although I personally would like to see UA continue on its present course of an alliance for a year or two before considering that option.

One possible, although unlikely scenario might be the splitting up of US. UA might be able to absorb the pre-merger US system leaving the former America West system to someone like AA. UA doesn't need the western portion of the US operation and AA might be able to make good use of it. One could make the case that US is still very much two airlines operating under one umbrella and such a split might be a way to resolve much of what hinders US today. Could be interesting.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: cba
Posted 2010-04-10 10:28:56 and read 13351 times.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 11):
So does CO apparently:

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/0...tinental-interested-in-merger.html


Continental Airlines Inc. would make the best merger partner for United Airlines, creating the world’s largest carrier, an analyst said Friday.

Executives at Continental started reviewing options this week after hearing that United is talking to US Airways Group Inc. about merging, according to a person familiar with the matter who asked not to be identified because details are confidential.

Together, Houston-based Continental and UAL Corp.’s United would surpass Delta Air Lines Inc. for the top spot in global passenger traffic.
Quoting drerx7 (Reply 14):
I see this as the impetus for CO to walk down the aisle with UA. CO is who UA wants anyway.

  

As I said in the previous thread... this whole thing is likely a ploy to test Smisek's mettle.

1. CO has been gun-shy with merger talks... this could be a PR ploy to get UA-CO negotiations started again.
2. If CO has indicated interest, this could be a financial ploy to start a bid war, inducing CO to make a better offer for UA.

Quoting vctony (Reply 16):
AA could also close down the PHX hub and relegate PHL to a focus city and use US's A32Xs to retire some additional Super80s.

Why would AA want to close PHX? They are weak in the Southwest region as is... PHX would fill an important gap in their network.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: vctony
Posted 2010-04-10 10:35:14 and read 13309 times.

Quoting cba (Reply 20):

Why would AA want to close PHX? They are weak in the Southwest region as is... PHX would fill an important gap in their network.

PHX is a boom/bust market that even in "boom" times is notoriously low-yielding. PHX would be a good operation for AA to possibly sell to B6 (who might be able to make it work). Not to mention WN already flies to most of the major business markets from PHX.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: bmacleod
Posted 2010-04-10 11:04:37 and read 13080 times.

There was a report on NBC saying UA pilots are strongly opposed to a USair merger. I can't see how this deal can go ahead without the UA pilot's union approval....

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: LHCVG
Posted 2010-04-10 11:22:01 and read 12963 times.

Quoting cba (Reply 20):
Why would AA want to close PHX? They are weak in the Southwest region as is... PHX would fill an important gap in their network.

VCTony says it.

Quoting vctony (Reply 21):
PHX is a boom/bust market that even in "boom" times is notoriously low-yielding. PHX would be a good operation for AA to possibly sell to B6 (who might be able to make it work). Not to mention WN already flies to most of the major business markets from PHX.

Also I don't see anything PHX brings that doesn't duplicate LAX and/or DFW. It would be adding a "middle" hub between these two hubs that already have good geographical coverage. If you ran a merged US-AA and had full authority to close hubs, I really don't think you'd close LAX in favor of PHX -- PHX serves its purpose well given that US has no other Western hub after LAS has been shuttered, but isn't optimal given better options such as LAX after a potential merger.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: legacytravel
Posted 2010-04-10 11:23:49 and read 12942 times.

As a person who just flew UA as of yesterday, I can officially say they are a an LCC with a full can of soda. Not one snack was given, the flights were smooth and the crews were professional getting, me to my destinations 30 minutes early each segment. I then volunteered my seats for the last leg ORD-MKE and received 3 RT vouchers, 30 in food and bus transportation home.
UA is nothing special, you get in sit down then get to your destination they seem like a good fit for US.

Mark in MKE

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: will777
Posted 2010-04-10 12:51:39 and read 12861 times.

Quoting legacytravel (Reply 24):
As a person who just flew UA as of yesterday, I can officially say they are a an LCC with a full can of soda. Not one snack was given, the flights were smooth and the crews were professional

Same thing happened with me on US yesterday. Full can of soda, had to pay for snacks. I was on DL last week and the week before that and you didn't get the whole can, but you got snacks.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: ca2ohHP
Posted 2010-04-10 13:21:40 and read 12673 times.

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 14):
I see this as the impetus for CO to walk down the aisle with UA. CO is who UA wants anyway.

I'm not so sure that any of this is about who UA "wants." The original NYT article indicated this would be a stock transaction (like DL/NW) with US being the acquiring company.

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 22):
There was a report on NBC saying UA pilots are strongly opposed to a USair merger. I can't see how this deal can go ahead without the UA pilot's union approval....

Believe it or not there are other employee groups than the pilots and flight attendants.

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 10):
2) Should a UA/US merger occur, CLT-Northeast service would be drastically reduced. UA would focus on connecting Northeast pax through a strengthened IAD hub, while CLT would mainly serve as a gateway to the Deep South and possibly the Caribbean.

And overall no domestic ASM would be reduced as the FL/WN/NK's of the world would move into any hub market that a combined UA/US pulls traffic out of.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: milesrich
Posted 2010-04-10 13:21:49 and read 13024 times.

Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 3):
US also tried to hitch themselves up with DL back in 2006 but there was a strong backlash from unions regarding the deal. So this would be the third time with UA, plus another with DL.

US tried buy Delta in an unfriendly takeover while DL was in Chapter 11. Delta did a good job of convincing the creditors not to accept the deal, because what US was offering was their debt and/or stock plus cash instead of the new Delta stock that was going to be issued to pay the unsecured creditors in Delta's reorganization.

As far as US and UA, they fly the same Airbus equipment, and their systems blend well. While CO might be a better partner route wise (the IAH hub and EWR), we will just have to see. If the merger is approved, then AA and CO will make a deal in a shotgun marriage of sorts, and the government will be hard pressed to make CO or AA reduce their presence in Texas, plus WN's domination of the DAL-HOU market probably will be enough to allow that merger to also past muster. As far as CO's EWR hub, and AA's large focus at LGA and JFK, again, NYC has so much O&D traffic that the claims that the AA/CO merger will be upset the competitive edge against DL/NW and UA/US will fall on deaf ears.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: DualQual
Posted 2010-04-10 13:48:44 and read 12806 times.

Quoting milesrich (Reply 27):
f the merger is approved, then AA and CO will make a deal in a shotgun marriage of sorts

I don't think there will be any kind of AA/CO tie up. The only thing either will do will be to bid on pieces of the wreckage that UA/US would become.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: legacytravel
Posted 2010-04-10 15:34:40 and read 12206 times.

Quoting will777 (Reply 25):
Same thing happened with me on US yesterday. Full can of soda, had to pay for snacks

F9 was the same way. It was an Am flight so no cookies, so there would have been snacks if after 10 AM. The F9 employees on the flight were great. The same cannot be said for the DEN-ORD leg of my flight yesterday. I asked a FA she could ask the Captain of the flight to turn channel 9 on and I was totally blown off, not so much as even an answer was directed my way.

Mark in MKE

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: will777
Posted 2010-04-10 16:20:43 and read 12017 times.

Quoting legacytravel (Reply 29):
It was an Am flight so no cookies, so there would have been snacks if after 10 AM.

My US flight left FLL at 19:20 and got in to PHL after 22:00 so I was surprised that no snacks were provided.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: avek00
Posted 2010-04-10 17:51:04 and read 11722 times.

Here's my thinking on the subject:

US' overarching goal is not a merger for its own sake, but rather a preservation of its economic interests. Think about it, for a moment:

1. US will soon be the largest non-immunized carrier offering TATL service, going up against 3 large multi-hub (on both sides of the ocean) immunized networks, 1 of which can go so far as to use US' own flights to feed the immunized flying against which US will be competing;

2. US may seek to become a respectable player on Caribbean/Central Am flying -- and could continue to develop South America flying, but its standalone expansion efforts would be more or less thwarted in full, and likely reversed in part, once the planned CO/UA-led JV for LatAm gets going;

3. US still has TPAC-capable birds coming in at some point, and at this point would have no ability to actually put them on TPAC services;

4. US has a bit of surplus capacity which can be used to support expanded flying at key airports, especially in connection with alliance-related flying (or that can be offloaded, like LGA); and

5. US needs access to a broader domestic network to compete against 3 super-legacies (assuming CO and UA got together).

In light of these realities, US can either attempt to actually merge wth UA, or else assume a CO/UA merger is a foregone conclusion and do what it's doing now in the hopes of extracting ransom, er, "concessions" from UA/CO in connection with their future merger. And by concessions, I mean things like:

1. Adding US to the CO/UA-led Star JVs worldwide;

2. Implementing FF benefit reciprocity for US FFers along the lines of what CO and UA are planning for each other; and

3. Continuing and expanding domestic and international codesharing between US and UA.

[Edited 2010-04-10 18:08:10]

[Edited 2010-04-10 18:09:26]

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: mah4546
Posted 2010-04-10 18:00:05 and read 11684 times.

Quoting avek00 (Reply 31):
US has become a respectable player on Caribbean/Central Am flying

Caribbean does fine, but US is nothing in the Caribbean today like it was around 2000-2004. I think what happened was that Delta quickly started expanding around 2005 and American Airlines started bulking up its domestic feed at MIA at around the same time, which really hurt US.

And in Central America, US Airways currently offers nothing more than CLT-SJO/LIR and seasonal Saturday service on PHX/PHL-SJO.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: avek00
Posted 2010-04-10 18:08:52 and read 11639 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 32):
And in Central America, US Airways currently offers nothing more than CLT-SJO/LIR and seasonal Saturday service on PHX/PHL-SJO.

I stand corrected, and have edited my earlier post accordingly. Thanks.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: wn676
Posted 2010-04-10 23:18:51 and read 11101 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 32):
And in Central America, US Airways currently offers nothing more than CLT-SJO/LIR and seasonal Saturday service on PHX/PHL-SJO.

PHX-SJO has been running daily since December 17th, though it does go back to Saturday-only after tomorrow.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: United1
Posted 2010-04-11 00:53:33 and read 11060 times.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 18):
Either they bid for UA and acquire them, or else US will... basically. UA is fodder, they won't be the controlling manager of any of the prospective combos.

Not according to the Wall Street Journal...

fair use extract

"If a deal is reached, it will be an all-stock transaction, and United will be the surviving airline, the person said. An earlier Reuters report also said talks revolved around an all-stock deal."

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: surfandsnow
Posted 2010-04-11 01:06:09 and read 10968 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 32):
US is nothing in the Caribbean today like it was around 2000-2004.

Why do you say this?? Sure, they have dropped a lot of flying from BOS and LGA since then (not to mention the ill-fated FLL focus city), but they still send down quite a bit of heavy metal from PHL and serve almost every island from CLT that AA serves n/s from MIA...

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: USAirALB
Posted 2010-04-11 04:15:09 and read 10820 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 9):
Markets? The only market which in the region with Charlotte service that does not have Atlanta service is Wilkes-Barre.

Other markets do have more capacity, but, regardless, that's a product of US Airways' network strength in the Northeast. It has nothing to do with the local Charlotte market.
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 9):
Why is this relevant?!?

1) ATL can sustain year round service to smaller sized cities everywhere else (Florida, Deep South, Midwest, Western U.S., and int'l)

2) Should a UA/US merger occur, CLT-Northeast service would be drastically reduced. UA would focus on connecting Northeast pax through a strengthened IAD hub, while CLT would mainly serve as a gateway to the Deep South and possibly the Caribbean.

Just saying that US has mainline service from CLT to many smaller NE cities and DL doesn't.

ALB has 3x CR7s to ATL on DL. ALB has 1x 733, 1x 734, and a CR9 to CLT on US.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 32):
Caribbean does fine, but US is nothing in the Caribbean today like it was around 2000-2004. I think what happened was that Delta quickly started expanding around 2005 and American Airlines started bulking up its domestic feed at MIA at around the same time, which really hurt US.

And in Central America, US Airways currently offers nothing more than CLT-SJO/LIR and seasonal Saturday service on PHX/PHL-SJO.

Yupp. Remember "US Airways Caribbean" with the azul blue logo? They flew to Grenada and La Romana from CLT. I believe Grenada will be back, along with GUA.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: timboflier215
Posted 2010-04-11 04:30:03 and read 10828 times.

Quoting United1 (Reply 35):
fair use extract

"If a deal is reached, it will be an all-stock transaction, and United will be the surviving airline, the person said. An earlier Reuters report also said talks revolved around an all-stock deal."

I think United will be the surviving name, but US Airways management will be calling the shots - same way that America West actually took over US Airways, and their management is the one left in charge, but the US name survived because of stronger brand recognition.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: FWAERJ
Posted 2010-04-11 07:32:19 and read 10547 times.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 6):
Quoting RJ777 (Reply 5):
they launch a website about it

what will be the names of the website now?

they already used transformingusairways.com and i forget what the HP/US website of..


Was transformingusairways.com for the DL proposal?

May I suggest:
unitingtheworld.com (a play on an old UA slogan)
oneglobalairline.com (newglobalairline.com was already used for the DL/NW merger)
moreflightchoices.com
transformingairtravel.com

OR
transformingunited.com and transformingusairways.com, both linking to the same website

Problem solved.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: Jacobin777
Posted 2010-04-11 08:57:37 and read 10407 times.

Quoting timboflier215 (Reply 38):
Quoting United1 (Reply 35):
fair use extract

"If a deal is reached, it will be an all-stock transaction, and United will be the surviving airline, the person said. An earlier Reuters report also said talks revolved around an all-stock deal."

I think United will be the surviving name, but US Airways management will be calling the shots - same way that America West actually took over US Airways, and their management is the one left in charge, but the US name survived because of stronger brand recognition.

Tilton has already stated that he wants to run the show and if UA takes over, he certainly will. Parker will definitely be "up there" as well.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: etops1
Posted 2010-04-11 10:13:58 and read 10185 times.

NO ONE knows what will happen except for Tilton,Parker,and maybe even Smisek. You think that Smisek with such close ties to UAL did not know about this from the getgo?? Something is up .Something big. This is just the beginning. All these what if's mean nothing. These guys are gonna do what they think is good for the companies involved . Not what we think . So everyone just sit back and take it one day at a time .And please ,stop the US bashing . US must bring something to the table if these airlines are talking with each other . Yes CO is a better fit for UAL but who is to say that CO is not in this as well ?? You never know in this ever changing industry . Nothing surprises me anymore..Nothing .

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2010-04-11 11:07:48 and read 10041 times.

Don't forget master mind fund raiser Bruce Lakefield is still on the board and hanging around as well.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: ca2ohHP
Posted 2010-04-11 14:09:33 and read 9722 times.

Quoting etops1 (Reply 41):
This is just the beginning. All these what if's mean nothing. These guys are gonna do what they think is good for the companies involved . Not what we think . So everyone just sit back and take it one day at a time .And please ,stop the US bashing . US must bring something to the table if these airlines are talking with each other .

   Great post, couldn't have said it better myself.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: mah4546
Posted 2010-04-11 16:09:10 and read 9484 times.

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 36):


Quoting mah4546 (Reply 32):
US is nothing in the Caribbean today like it was around 2000-2004.

Why do you say this?? Sure, they have dropped a lot of flying from BOS and LGA since then (not to mention the ill-fated FLL focus city), but they still send down quite a bit of heavy metal from PHL and serve almost every island from CLT that AA serves n/s from mia...
BOS flying to the Caribbean is actually up quite a bit.

US Airways capacity to the Caribbean today is down from its peak heydays around 2004-05, and we don't even need to include FLL there.

It has dropped frequency, made former year-round routes seasonal (from PHL, not CLT), lowered capacity and dropped plenty of routes - MIAGHB, PBIMHH, CLTGND, CLTLRM, CLTGGT, CLTKIN, LGASJU, DCAFPO, LGABDA, etc., etc., not to mention its entire "goCaribbean" partner network.

US Airways was in a great position to expand in the Caribbean when it did - Delta was tiny in the region (only SJU, STT and AUA, I believe) and American's MIA domestic network was tiny. So with Charlotte, it offered many East coast cities the only one-stop. Though as Delta built-up the Caribbean and American added domestic routes from Miami, that huge advantage disappeared. Not to mention Spirit Airlines taking a huge chunk of marketshare from WAS and NYC.

In the past few years, there has been no growth, only cuts. And the only new market has been the resumption of PHLBGI and some Boston Saturday flying.

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 36):
and serve almost every island from CLT that AA serves n/s from MIA...
AA's Caribbean network from MIA is twelve cities larger than US Airways' from CLT.

[Edited 2010-04-11 16:12:53]

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: FLYAWA
Posted 2010-04-11 16:28:13 and read 9400 times.

US will once again be the jilted lover, causing runaway bride UA to finally walk the aisle with CO  

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: cokepopper
Posted 2010-04-11 16:40:23 and read 9410 times.

If this US/UAL thing doesn't go through, I hope someone keeps an eye on Mr. Parker.
We know what happened after his failed attempt at raiding Delta.  

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: FLALEFTY
Posted 2010-04-11 18:41:36 and read 9138 times.

This potential merger is DOA. Just like it was a decade ago.

The two airlines have major operations in DCA and IAD, places that congressmen and other politicos fly from. They will not approve a merger that would decrease operations in their travel market. For instance, I don't think that "Congressman Smith" from the 9th district in suburban Omaha will be willing to lose his airline choices.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: USAirALB
Posted 2010-04-11 19:04:22 and read 9035 times.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 39):
Was transformingusairways.com for the DL proposal?

Nah, I think it was for HP or their reconstructing.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 44):
MIAGHB, PBIMHH, CLTGND, CLTLRM, CLTGGT, CLTKIN, LGASJU, DCAFPO, LGABDA

CLT-KIN, isnt really a leisure route.

La Romana... I've actually never heard of it until a few weeks ago.

Grenada...will be back...for sure.

As for Great Exuma, I dunno. A major problem is there is no preclearance.

All the old bahamian routes failed because Air Midwest went under.

And they could only operate LGASJU on Saturdays..and AA/B6/DL/CO had the market already.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: seriophoto
Posted 2010-04-12 05:24:55 and read 8657 times.

Merger talk between UA and US

Quoting web500sjc (Reply 15):
I'd wait a second on that, it would be one or the other, and if COs talks are
serious I would expect CO and UA to try and tie the knot. I think UA dosent reallywant US, we all know what is going on as a result from the last US merger. Also with that triple merger it would have to go past DOJ aproval, which is a none exsistant to very slim chance of passing scince DL-NW almost didn't make it through, it kinda makes you wonder if a CO/UA wold make it through, let alone a CO/UA/US merger.

True, obviously DOJ will play a big role and will be a big test for administration. Maybe not a triple merger but certainly a lot of moving parts in this one:
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=37744

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: Tommy767
Posted 2010-04-12 11:29:49 and read 8036 times.

Quoting etops1 (Reply 41):
NO ONE knows what will happen except for Tilton,Parker,and maybe even Smisek. You think that Smisek with such close ties to UAL did not know about this from the getgo?? Something is up .Something big. This is just the beginning.

Your absolutely right. I think in the end it doesn't involve a merger between UA/US, rather UA/CO. I think Parker is full of it.

Quoting etops1 (Reply 41):
US must bring something to the table if these airlines are talking with each other .

CLT/DCA and a newer fleet of A330s. That's it.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: AirStairs
Posted 2010-04-12 13:27:09 and read 7718 times.

At this point it seems that US is in no position to go it alone in the long term. I'd love to see the airline go, as they have increasingly frustrated me over the last several months. Of course, that is not to say I wish anyone out of a job, but pissing off Preferred members (especially ones like me, who usually airlines the benefit of the doubt) does not pave the way for job security. It is a catch-22 because any scenario in which US is merged or broken up is probably going to involve the dissolution of PHX, making life a bit more inconvenient and Sky Harbor a veritable ghost town.

The UA-CO combination seems to make more sense, but if UA lays a finger on US I sincerely hope they abandon the hybrid legacy-LCC concept with gusto. It dilutes the benefits that premium revenue pax expect, pisses off more infrequent travelers with nickel and diming, and obviously hasn't done much for US's financial or strategic position. I can only speculate about what US's assets are worth to UA, but in the event of a merger I hope they seriously pick up the soft product and emphasize customer satisfaction.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: mah4546
Posted 2010-04-12 13:36:26 and read 7742 times.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 48):

CLT-KIN, isnt really a leisure route.

Grenada...will be back...for sure.

You make an excuse for Kingston because it isn't leisure and then say Grenada will be back. Grenada is almost pure VFR. The market is absolutely tiny and it can't even support daily service to Miami or New York City. More than 85% of demand is to MIA and NYC. I would not hold my breath for a return. Grenada has historically only barely supported YYZ/MIA/JFK. And even then there have been long periods without service to one or multiple of them.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 48):
As for Great Exuma, I dunno. A major problem is there is no preclearance.

How is that a problem? Why would that be a problem for Exuma, but not, say, for Punta Cana, Montego Bay or Cancun? Why is it not a problem for AA, AC, CO and DL, who all serve GGT?

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 48):

La Romana... I've actually never heard of it until a few weeks ago.

Most Americans haven't hear of Punta Cana, either.

[Edited 2010-04-12 13:40:07]

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: STT757
Posted 2010-04-12 14:54:25 and read 7510 times.

Analyst upgrade CO in expectation that the airline will bid for UA;

Quote:
Investors would "react favorably" to a United and Continental (CAL.N) pairing, Stifel Nicolaus analyst Hunter Keay said. He upgraded Continental to a "buy" from a "hold."
Quote:
We expect CAL to respond with a bid for UAUA in the near term, partly as a defensive maneuver to protect its immunized JV, but also because of synergy benefits from creating the world's largest airline," Keay wrote in a note on Monday.
Quote:
Continental's strong presence in New York and the Pacific market could complement United's routes, whereas US Airways "lacks the rich appeal of new markets," said GimmeCredit analyst Vicki Bryan in a research note.

"A UAL/CAL combination could generate nearly $2 billion in revenue and cost savings, perhaps twice the benefits versus a UAL/US Airways merger," Bryan said in a research note.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1218320320100412?type=marketsNews

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: ca2ohHP
Posted 2010-04-12 15:39:42 and read 7348 times.

I think the legacies need US more than this forum gives US credit for. If US were to close shop tomorrow LGA, DCA, CLT, PHL and even PHX would be over-run with ultra low cost competitors, destroying any yield left in those markets.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: FL787
Posted 2010-04-12 15:47:41 and read 7280 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 53):
Analyst upgrade CO in expectation that the airline will bid for UA;

When they say bid, do they mean offering CO stock?

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: AndrewUber
Posted 2010-04-12 17:52:07 and read 6911 times.

Quoting United1 (Reply 8):

I wouldn't put a great deal of confidence in the information gathered from union pilots.

US and UA are talking, there's no point in discussing whether or not they are "serious". I doubt Mr. Tilton or Mr. Parker blow great amounts of time chit-chatting about nothing. Time will tell whether or not a deal can be made.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: USAirALB
Posted 2010-04-12 17:55:51 and read 6901 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 52):
Quoting USAirALB (Reply 48):
As for Great Exuma, I dunno. A major problem is there is no preclearance.

How is that a problem? Why would that be a problem for Exuma, but not, say, for Punta Cana, Montego Bay or Cancun? Why is it not a problem for AA, AC, CO and DL, who all serve GGT?

Well I'm not sure, and I could be wrong, but could US see it as a pain bringing an RJ to the INTL arrivals area.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 52):
Quoting USAirALB (Reply 48):

La Romana... I've actually never heard of it until a few weeks ago.

Most Americans haven't hear of Punta Cana, either.

I think the Dominican Republic is the most popular vacation destination in the Caribbean. US Airlines have had so much success with Punta Cana that they are supposed to be adding preclearance.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: mah4546
Posted 2010-04-12 18:10:40 and read 6819 times.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 60):

I think the Dominican Republic is the most popular vacation destination in the Caribbean. US Airlines have had so much success with Punta Cana that they are supposed to be adding preclearance.

It is nowhere close to being the most popular for Americans. Aruba, the Bahamas, the Mexican-Caribbean coast, Puerto Rico, Jamaica and the Virgin Islands attract far more Americans.

Punta Cana has developed significantly in the past decade (in 2000, the only flights to Punta Cana from the U.S, were American Eagle from San Juan and LAN Chile from Miami), but it still has a lot of catching up to do.

The market from Punta Cana to the U.S. is still developing - it relies largely on charter traffic and pre-packaged vacations.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 60):

Well I'm not sure, and I could be wrong, but could US see it as a pain bringing an RJ to the INTL arrivals area.

Don't really get why. It's just a plane. It can go to the international arrivals area, just like a Continental Beech 1900D does at FLL.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: FutureUScapt
Posted 2010-04-12 18:27:57 and read 6757 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 44):
BOS flying to the Caribbean is actually up quite a bit

Only until 02May, when it is all discontinued. A very small portion of that may return for the peak winter season, but that remains to be seen,

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 44):
It has dropped frequency, made former year-round routes seasonal (from PHL, not CLT), lowered capacity and dropped plenty of routes - MIAGHB, PBIMHH, CLTGND, CLTLRM, CLTGGT, CLTKIN, LGASJU, DCAFPO, LGABDA, etc., etc., not to mention its entire "goCaribbean" partner network

US never flew CLTGND; PHLGND operated from fall 2002 until hurricane [insert name] hit Grenada in 2004 when service was suspended and never resumed.

The only leisure routes US has dropped in its entirety from CLT are CLTGGT and CLTLRM, the latter of which can not even sustain daily flights to MIA anymore.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: MrSkyGuy
Posted 2010-04-13 10:23:54 and read 5801 times.

Any updates? The media wires suddenly went radio silent on the subject of the USA/UAL merger talks.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2010-04-13 14:14:19 and read 5555 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 32):
And in Central America, US Airways currently offers nothing more than CLT-SJO/LIR and seasonal Saturday service on PHX/PHL-SJO.

Actually they were 5Xweek CLT-BZE until this week....when it reverts back to weekend only service.



I say go ahead US-UA....then let AA-CO tie up and become fortress TX, NYC and LatAm. Think of the powerhouse to latin America a CO/AA would be..everything east of the mississippi via MIA...everything west....via IAH. They would have F&J pax powerhouse stations in IAH,MIA, DFW, ORD, EWR..their only missing links would be Asia Pacific and Africa

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: kiwiandrew
Posted 2010-04-13 14:19:05 and read 5550 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 61):
then let AA-CO tie up and become fortress TX, NYC and LatAm. Think of the powerhouse to latin America a CO/AA would be..

Congratulations , you have just explained in a couple of succinct sentences exactly why an AA/CO merger would never be permitted .

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: USAirALB
Posted 2010-04-13 14:23:09 and read 5524 times.

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 59):
The only leisure routes US has dropped in its entirety from CLT are CLTGGT

Curious-why did they drop it.

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 59):
CLTLRM

It was a weird route. Do they even have flights to NYC?

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: mah4546
Posted 2010-04-13 14:42:58 and read 5442 times.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 63):
Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 59):
CLTLRM

It was a weird route. Do they even have flights to NYC?

La Romana is a privately owned airport and its owners essentially dictate service levels. La Romana is a niche destination that is popular with very wealthy Americans - hence it sees far more private jets than commercial planes. It only maintains service to Miami and San Juan.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: fascm170
Posted 2010-04-13 14:51:58 and read 5414 times.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 63):
Curious-why did they drop it
Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 59):
The only leisure routes US has dropped in its entirety from CLT are CLTGGT and CLTLRM, the latter of which can not even sustain daily flights to MIA anymore.

LRM never picked up loads and IIRC it was a subsidized flight. Flying an A319 for 15-20 passengers was crazy. GGT was flown by PSA on a 70 seater saturday only. There were a lot of routes axed right before the US/HP merger and right after the merger in order to have a better aircraft utilization. When capacity started to be reduced, most of the marginal routes were dropped as a way to stabilize revenue.

Most of the Caribbean flying is based on revenue guarantees and in some cases, route subsidies. BZE for some reason does not pick up and Yellowtail and I have been talking in great detail over this on/off forum.

US has never been keen of VFR traffic and it was clearly demonstrated with the FLL mini hub on the early 2005. The only surviving route of the time is LIR, everyone else is gone (KIN/SAL/GUA/PTY/LRM). SDQ/KIN even saw twice a day service from FLL. No one in PHX seems to recognize that the VFR traffic is important, but it also comes with a high cost of delivery ( CTO's, abundant number of multilingual personnel, lots of advertisement) and within the low cost model that US is trying to convey, I don't believe they are willing to spend the money in areas they don't understand and prefer to stick to what they know. US is eager to pull the plug when the advance bookings are not to the expected level and in some VFR markets, passengers tend to buy tickets late at higher fares.

Same applied for UA when they flew to LatAm. Once they needed to reduce costs, they eyed LatAm due to high delivery costs. MIA/EZE was one of the most profitable routes they had until the peso devaluation in 2000.

As far as a merger between US/UA, third time may be the charm

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2010-04-13 15:04:53 and read 5385 times.

Quoting fascm170 (Reply 65):
VFR markets, passengers tend to buy tickets late at higher fares.

CO and AA know this very well....As much as 20% of AA tickets reserved / sold on BZE-MIA come the day before departure at the CTO...we are last minute societies down here.

Quoting fascm170 (Reply 65):
Most of the Caribbean flying is based on revenue guarantees and in some cases, route subsidies. BZE for some reason does not pick up and Yellowtail and I have been talking in great detail over this on/off forum.

BZE is a now odd route for US....it was int'l station of the year in the late 90's....and it does enjoy great yields. and it does get some VFR going between BZE and NYC. DL as been slowly chipping away at this.

Quoting fascm170 (Reply 65):
As far as a merger between US/UA, third time may be the charm

hope so.

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: fascm170
Posted 2010-04-13 19:36:18 and read 5080 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 66):
BZE is a now odd route for US....it was int'l station of the year in the late 90's

Yellowtail, US opened the station in 2001. TA business has been decaying slowly too. I heard that Rudy was sick. Is he ok?

Topic: RE: United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2010-04-14 06:39:02 and read 4754 times.

Quoting fascm170 (Reply 67):
Yellowtail, US opened the station in 2001. TA business has been decaying slowly too. I heard that Rudy was sick. Is he ok?

Are you sure about 2001? TA has picked up LFs since they dropped IAH....BZE-SAL runs about 80% right now...so why they would drop a frequency for the summer is a mystery. but that E190 sitting for 7 hours each day is killing the yields.

Last I checked Rudy was fine....I will find out...maybe TA is giving him stress!


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/