Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4789985/

Topic: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: rjpieces
Posted 2010-04-24 12:12:03 and read 6993 times.

If United and Continental merge, what are the likely immediate international network changes to be implemented? It seems to be the most obvious might be to put United's three-class 767-300 ERs on EWR/IAH-LHR. A route like IAD-Moscow probably doesn't require a first-class cabin so there is room to make some swaps.

What are the other likely immediate changes? I could see United adding IAD-TLV and switching EWR-TLV to 767-300 ERs as well. Slightly more capacity, they could route more connections through IAD rather than EWR, while tapping into the DC-Israel market and adding first class to NYC-TLV. There won't be AVOD in Y, but then again Continental didn't have AVOD in Y until about two years ago.

Thoughts?

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: BOACCunard
Posted 2010-04-24 20:45:28 and read 6573 times.

It remains to be seen whether the new UA would operate two-class international widebodies. Regardless, I agree that EWR-LHR in particular is obviously a route that deserves F. And UA currently operates any number of routes where F is probably not necessarily. For example, does anyone else offer F to FCO? AA uses two-class aircraft on JFK-FCO and ORD-FCO and the other airlines flying from North America to FCO don't have F at all. If UA now has two-class aircraft, would it keep three-class service to FCO? I doubt it.

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: COSPN
Posted 2010-04-24 21:25:34 and read 6442 times.

I think Mabe GUM-SFO flight to feed Airmike to asian places like MNL or CNS bypassing NRT

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: FL787
Posted 2010-04-24 22:11:20 and read 6335 times.

Just some guesses assuming UA keeps CO planes in a two class configuration for a while:

IAD-FCO>764
ORD-FCO>764
IAD-DME>762 in winter/764 in summer
IAD-MAD>752 (nobody has talked about the EI JV in a UA/CO combo)
EWR-TLV>744
EWR-NRT>744
EWR-LHR>763s
EWR-CDG>763s
EWR-FRA>744?

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: AznMadSci
Posted 2010-04-24 22:48:36 and read 6246 times.

Quoting COSPN (Reply 2):
I think Mabe GUM-SFO flight to feed Airmike to asian places like MNL or CNS bypassing NRT

What about GUM-LAX? It seems this route may have a slightly higher priority than GUM-SFO.

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: huaiwei
Posted 2010-04-24 22:59:15 and read 6205 times.

Quoting rjpieces (Thread starter):
A route like IAD-Moscow probably doesn't require a first-class cabin

But SQ flies 3-class on this route...thou it continues on to SIN that is.  

Any possible changes to the Transpac routes? With the merger, it is my hope that it will triumph over DL in this important market for the future. And its prospects looks very bright because the combined airline will be serving multiple destinations in Asia from the important American cities of NYC and Chicago, plus SF and Seattle which are more relevant to the Asians. It's only weakness is from LA where it only flies to NRT, so it may wish to consider flying to more Asian destinations from LA with the combined strength from CO.

DL may boast it has more frequencies over the Pacific now, but with the exception of Portland, which Asian seriously cares about Atlanta, Salt Lake City, Minneapolis or Detroit?

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: AznMadSci
Posted 2010-04-24 23:03:42 and read 6174 times.

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 5):
But SQ flies 3-class on this route...thou it continues on to SIN that is.

SQ flies IAH-DME-SIN, not IAD-DME, SIN.

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: huaiwei
Posted 2010-04-24 23:09:39 and read 6160 times.

Quoting AznMadSci (Reply 6):
SQ flies IAH-DME-SIN, not IAD-DME, SIN.

Whoops my eyes are probably glazed over. My bad! 

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: OlympicATH
Posted 2010-04-25 09:09:23 and read 5745 times.

I think ORD-ATH is a no brainer. Perhaps move CO's seasonal EWR-ATH to ORD.

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: CODC10
Posted 2010-04-25 09:29:23 and read 5645 times.

Quoting rjpieces (Thread starter):
If United and Continental merge, what are the likely immediate international network changes to be implemented?

It is unlikely that any route swaps would be immediate. Consider that it took Delta around 18 months to combine the operations.

Quoting rjpieces (Thread starter):
EWR-TLV to 767-300 ERs as well.

EWR-TLV needs the volume of the 777. The 50 CO J seats would generate more revenue than the combined 32 F/J seats of a UA 763ER, and the 777s. Don't forget that CO operates the route 2x daily with the 772ER, and it is extremely popular. Now, if we were talking about the 747 replacing the 777, then this I would be inclined to agree with.

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 1):
EWR-LHR in particular is obviously a route that deserves F

EWR-LHR would probably go at least 3x daily with 777s, and the rest with 763ERs.

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: MasseyBrown
Posted 2010-04-25 09:44:41 and read 5562 times.

How much slack is there in UA widebody utilization? We know CO's fleet is pretty much maximized; but what about UA?

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: iluv747400
Posted 2010-04-25 10:23:28 and read 5457 times.

How about extending Continental's flights to NRT to new cities in Asia? I think MNL would be a good option as CO already has a presence there (low startup costs). And maybe CGK or KUL? With feed from New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, San Francisco, Seattle, and Washington, perhaps those cities could be supported.

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: elbandgeek
Posted 2010-04-25 11:21:56 and read 5260 times.

I think the first thing they'll try to do is appropriate capacity between IAD and EWR. With New York being much more O&D heavy while working with less space, it makes the most sense to shift routes that favor connections to IAD, allowing them to make the best of the resources they have at both airports. As that happens they can start adjusting things around the network as they see fit. I can imagine the 764s could find good use at ORD for European routes that need more capacity but not the legs of the 777, which can do more IAD/EWR-Asia and SFO/LAX-Europe

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: EWRCabincrew
Posted 2010-04-25 11:30:04 and read 5212 times.

Quoting OlympicATH (Reply 8):
Perhaps move CO's seasonal EWR-ATH to ORD.

It's no longer seasonal, it is year-round. As of this year.

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: ewrkid
Posted 2010-04-25 11:32:02 and read 5188 times.

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 9):
EWR-TLV needs the volume of the 777. The 50 CO J seats would generate more revenue than the combined 32 F/J seats of a UA 763ER, and the 777s. Don't forget that CO operates the route 2x daily with the 772ER, and it is extremely popular. Now, if we were talking about the 747 replacing the 777, then this I would be inclined to agree with.

  

Quoting iluv747400 (Reply 11):
How about extending Continental's flights to NRT to new cities in Asia? I think MNL would be a good option as CO already has a presence there (low startup costs). And maybe CGK or KUL? With feed from New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, San Francisco, Seattle, and Washington, perhaps those cities could be supported.

I think that ICN might be a good first start due to * connections and such it might even make sense to just do EWR-ICN instead of EWR-NRT-ICN.

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: web500sjc
Posted 2010-04-25 11:33:16 and read 5188 times.

Have UA and CO even merged?

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: Bralo20
Posted 2010-04-25 11:38:35 and read 5143 times.

BRU could use a second daily from EWR or at least a permanent upgrade to a 777 to start with. SN is desperatly waiting to codeshare with CO but they seem to hold it of due lack of availability.

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2010-04-25 11:41:05 and read 5124 times.

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 9):
EWR-TLV needs the volume of the 777.

Agreed. If UA and CO keep a mixed 2-class/3-class fleet (which I think is a good idea), it'll actually be interesting to see what the configuration of the 744s is. A route like EWR-TLV might benefit from a 744 configured more like Delta's 744s, and I can't think of that many routes that would require both the size and the revenue mix of UA's 744s.

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: PacificClipper
Posted 2010-04-25 12:26:23 and read 4801 times.

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 10):
How much slack is there in UA widebody utilization?

Not immediately available, but a few of the ships noted below could be reactivated and have the interior mods done to free up other a/c (e.g. replacing a 2x 767 or 777 service with a single 744 frees up two airframes). This assumes that the 744s below are not due for heavy checks which would make this swap out option take longer, and perhaps not viable.

This idea would also create slack to allow for a faster interior mod and/or repaint cycle for the widebody fleet.

Stored 744s
------------------
B744 -193, 194, 195, 196 & 198

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: tommy767
Posted 2010-04-25 12:36:05 and read 4727 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 17):
and I can't think of that many routes that would require both the size and the revenue mix of UA's 744s.

EWR-FCO on a seasonal basis at least could support a UA 744.

A merger UA/CO would have some interesting fleet shifts for certain. The 764 and 762 will be wild cards. CO has not done any interior updates for either aircraft since delivery. The 764s I could see being based from ORD for flights to Europe in addition to EWR and IAH. Not sure if the 762/764 would ever make it out to SFO/LAX for European crossings but possibly from SFO-Asia. The 762s are also niche aircraft but I would doubt that they would dispose of them. They are relatively new and the range they can get out of them is impressive.

The 764s can realistically do better than HNL routes from IAH/EWR. I could see EWR/IAH-HNL going to UA 2 class 763s.

Would like to see IAH-Dubai on 777s (or IAH-IAD-Dubai)

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2010-04-25 12:42:59 and read 4681 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 19):
EWR-FCO on a seasonal basis at least could support a UA 744.

But it doesn't need F, does it?

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: goldenstate
Posted 2010-04-25 13:17:58 and read 4561 times.

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 5):
Any possible changes to the Transpac routes? With the merger, it is my hope that it will triumph over DL in this important market for the future. And its prospects looks very bright because the combined airline will be serving multiple destinations in Asia from the important American cities of NYC and Chicago, plus SF and Seattle which are more relevant to the Asians. It's only weakness is from LA where it only flies to NRT, so it may wish to consider flying to more Asian destinations from LA with the combined strength from CO.

DL may boast it has more frequencies over the Pacific now, but with the exception of Portland, which Asian seriously cares about Atlanta, Salt Lake City, Minneapolis or Detroit?

Your hopes notwithstanding, it is unlikely that either DL or UA will "triumph over" the other. Assuming UA and CO can even pull off a merger in today's regulatory climate, the more likely outcome is a state of parity or something close to that between DL and a combined UA/CO.

DL is present in more traditional Asia gateways such as LAX, SFO, SEA, and NYC. It's not clear to me how you arrive at your definition of how a city is relevant to Asia, but a competent airline management professional would probably say that if a city can support profitable nonstop service to Asia, it is relevant.

Quoting web500sjc (Reply 15):
Have UA and CO even merged?

Best insight in this discussion so far.

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: huaiwei
Posted 2010-04-25 13:57:16 and read 4435 times.

Quoting goldenstate (Reply 21):
it is unlikely that either DL or UA will "triumph over" the other.

I suppose you hadn't read about those DL fellas harping endlessly about how DL is now THE dominant airline on the transpac market, including even the Asian carriers. I suppose nothing can shut them up better than to have another American carrier to reclaim a position it has maintained over the years.

Quoting goldenstate (Reply 21):
DL is present in more traditional Asia gateways such as LAX, SFO, SEA, and NYC. It's not clear to me how you arrive at your definition of how a city is relevant to Asia, but a competent airline management professional would probably say that if a city can support profitable nonstop service to Asia, it is relevant.

You said it yourself. "Traditional Asia gateways". Those gateways are not "traditional" by chance, and I do not think it necessary to actually explain to you why LAX, SFO, SEA or NYC are more likely able to sustain transpac services than ATL, SLC, MSP or DTW.

Meanwhile, while DL may have a presence in those markets, UA/CO dominates the non-stop sectors. Excluding Australia, DL operates just one route from LAX, SFO, SEA, NRT, ATL, SLC and MSP transpac, and all just to NRT. Only DTW has multiple non-stop routes, but only to NRT, NGO and PVG.

On the other hand, UA operates:
- SFO to PEK, PVG, ICN, NRT, KIX, and HKG.
- LAX to NRT
- ORD to PEK, PVG, NRT and HKG
- SEA to NRT
- IAD to PEK, NRT

And CO would add:
- EWR to PEK, PVG, NRT and HKG
- IAH to NRT

So UA do need CO to complete its domination of the non-stop transpac sector from all key markets relevant to Asians. DL can only dream of matching that domination from their NRT hub, but it is laughable if they think Asians consider their one-stop routes to the US as a major incentive over the non-stop options available.

[Edited 2010-04-25 13:59:20]

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: peanuts
Posted 2010-04-25 15:42:58 and read 4161 times.

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 22):
You said it yourself. "Traditional Asia gateways". Those gateways are not "traditional" by chance, and I do not think it necessary to actually explain to you why LAX, SFO, SEA or NYC are more likely able to sustain transpac services than ATL, SLC, MSP or DTW.

Your statement clearly demonstrates your lack of knowledge about a legitimate "hub and spoke" network.
Also, it's not all about the "Asians". Besides, aren't Asians "too good" to fly american carriers anyway???
If we have to believe any of your anti DL tripe, DL may as well pack up.

I'm glad UA/CO got a new fanboy in their midst.  

Back on topic:
UA and CO will basically rightsize many markets with equipment that becomes available due to a merger.

[Edited 2010-04-25 15:44:48]

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: mcdu
Posted 2010-04-25 16:59:35 and read 4009 times.

Quoting peanuts (Reply 23):
Your statement clearly demonstrates your lack of knowledge about a legitimate "hub and spoke" network.

And your lack of knowledge of the need to have O&D traffic instead of just connecting traffic....

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: peanuts
Posted 2010-04-25 17:12:36 and read 4007 times.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 24):
And your lack of knowledge of the need to have O&D traffic instead of just connecting traffic...

Mmm...You may want to think your thoughts through before you comment.

I was referring to a "legitimate hub and spoke" network. That obviously INCLUDES O&D traffic.

Are you implying MSP/DTW/ATL don't have any?

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: OlympicATH
Posted 2010-04-25 17:35:15 and read 3929 times.

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 13):
Quoting OlympicATH (Reply 8):
Perhaps move CO's seasonal EWR-ATH to ORD.

It's no longer seasonal, it is year-round. As of this year.

You are totally right, my bad. Daily up to September 10, then 5 weekly and down to 3 weekly for the winter. United codeshares on the route too.
With A3/OA joining Star, I expect this flight to stay and to be daily year-round.
ORD-ATH is probably going to happen as well, Chicago is the #1 destination from ATH not currently served by a direct flight. I think O&D is over 80,000 pax per year, not to mention the potential connection possibilities with ATH becoming a Star hub.

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: CALPSAFltSkeds
Posted 2010-04-25 17:36:24 and read 3985 times.

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 10):
How much slack is there in SA)">UA widebody utilization? We know SA)">CO's fleet is pretty much maximized; but what about SA)">UA?

Well, according to airfleets.net, SA)">UA has 8 744s stored. They are 1992 to 1997 builds.

Additionally, SA)">UA flies some 763ERs on hub to hub domestic services as well as at least some of its 19 772A models. The 763ER aircraft could be used for TATL or Pacific operations and 772A has enough range for East coast to Europe.

SA)">CO is strapped for widebodies, which prevents growth from EWR to eastern Europe - the 763ER is the perfect aircraft for these routes. Anything longer than EWR-TXL and shorter than roughly EWR-TLV needs a 763ER - there looks like a lot of possible routes. PRG, VIE, ZAG, VCE, NCE, IST, CAI, AGP, BEG, BUD, KBP, HEL, DME/SVO, WAW, STR, DUS, CGN (restart), BRE plus maybe a couple more African destinations. A couple of these could be operated by 752s released from 763ER or 772A upgrades on some existing routes. Maybe 772A's could be configured in three or four class service for markets like LHR and BRU.

Of course, additions would not only take place at EWR. With the SA)">UA West Coast operations , GUM should get non-stop service from LAX and/or SFO - maybe not daily. With headwinds, my guess is LAX or SFO-GUM is beyond the range of the 763ER.
HNL can become more of a connection hub with SA)">UA's mainland flights connecting to AirMike. Maybe a second HNL-GUM.

Frequency is usually king and new 739ER aircraft and/or SA)">CO 752 aircraft that may be released from TATL service can take over for SA)">UA's 763ERs allowing for international expansion, teaming up with 787 and possibly A350 (if not canceled).

There could be more possibilities to South America with aircraft availability.

Regarding IAD and EWR hubs, EWR has the O&D while IAD has growth potential and demand for capitol to capitol type service. I could see service to many European destinations from both hubs with different sized aircraft, depending on the destination. The combined carrier could design connection paths via IAD/EWR to Europe from cities in the U.S.

Regarding NYC airports - does SA)">UA have slots being flown by commuters that could be converted to mainline aircraft that could relieve EWR? SA)">CO/UA could cherry-pick some large O&D markets form LGA if they had slots? Could EWR-West Coast go with at least some PS service? The 739ER can do PS service with newer interiors than the comparably sized 752 aircraft.

I don't think you'll see PS service with 762ER aircraft. they are probably too costly for such flights and probably do better on South American routes where they can carry cargo and some thinner European routes with goo cargo and premium loads. 762ER can be used seasonally to Europe in the northern winter allowing SA flights to be bumped up to 764 or 763 equipment.

LHR service would be to 16 RTs (LAX, SFO, IAD, EWR, IAH, ORD). This would easily eclipse DL's 5 to mostly lower O&D cities (ATL, DTW, MSP and JFK), but be short of AA's 19 flights to BOS, ORD, DFW, JFK, MIA, LAX. I could see SA)">CO/UA move a trip or two from EWR to JFK and upgrade gauge from 752 to 777 from NYC. Maybe more slots for increase frequency.

I think the exciting thing about a potential merger is that the combined carrier would be the top airline or major player in most of the larger cities with largest O&D. Additionally, the combined carrier would probably be able to serve more passengers in more market pairs with a combination of non-stop service and connection service at EWR/IAD/CLE/IAH/ORD/DEN/LAX/SFO/HNL/GUM than any other airline.

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: C010T3
Posted 2010-04-25 17:45:56 and read 3928 times.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 27):
There could be more possibilities to South America with aircraft availability.

Yes, actually EWR-GIG would have to be an immediate addition in order to put use to UA's dormant IAD-GIG frequencies before another airline tries to get them stripped.

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2010-04-25 17:55:22 and read 3882 times.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 28):
Yes, actually EWR-GIG would have to be an immediate addition in order to put use to UA's dormant IAD-GIG frequencies before another airline tries to get them stripped.

Those frequencies are not GIG-specific, though, right?

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: C010T3
Posted 2010-04-25 18:49:18 and read 3711 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 29):
Those frequencies are not GIG-specific, though, right?

Yes, but that's the route to Brazil with most potential for a combined UA/CO IMHO, not to mention the possibility of the end of the GIG tag from IAD.

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2010-04-25 19:03:02 and read 3654 times.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 30):
Yes, but that's the route to Brazil with most potential for a combined UA/CO IMHO

Not sure I agree. I think IAD-GIG is gone regardless, and with EWR-GRU, I'm not sure IAD-GRU sticks around either (IAD-EZE is also an interesting question, for that matter). Of course, it partially depends on whether they want to squat on the frequencies - they have the flexibility to send a couple of 767s or a 744 depending on what their frequency needs are.

I could see IAD-GRU going 4x/week, giving them 10 frequencies to play with. I don't think EWR-GIG needs daily service, but even if it does I think they could have some Brasil frequencies to start something new with if they want.

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: C010T3
Posted 2010-04-25 19:20:25 and read 3597 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 31):
I'm not sure IAD-GRU sticks around either

Why wouldn't it? It's an established route flown for years.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 31):
I could see IAD-GRU going 4x/week, giving them 10 frequencies to play with.

Play with them how? CO/UA would serve Brazil from all their major Eastern hubs EWR, IAD, ORD and IAH. GRU would be serve daily from all the hubs and GIG from only two. That's a good balance, also considering that GIG would be served from both largest O&D markets outside Florida.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 31):
I don't think EWR-GIG needs daily

NYC is the largest single market from GIG in the USA. Not serving the route daily is not competitive considering that JJ and AA are about to bring out the big guns at JFK starting October.

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2010-04-25 19:25:30 and read 3548 times.

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 5):
DL may boast it has more frequencies over the Pacific now, but with the exception of Portland, which Asian seriously cares about Atlanta, Salt Lake City, Minneapolis or Detroit?

That's what connections are for.

...

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2010-04-25 19:29:21 and read 3515 times.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 32):
Why wouldn't it? It's an established route flown for years.

It serves the same connecting flows as EWR-GRU. I don't think they need both daily, and with competition to NYC, it makes more sense to fly EWR daily.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 32):
Not serving the route daily is not competitive considering that JJ and AA are about to bring out the big guns at JFK starting October.

Won't CO and JJ codeshare on the route?

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: C010T3
Posted 2010-04-25 19:34:58 and read 3497 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 34):
It serves the same connecting flows as EWR-GRU. I don't think they need both daily, and with competition to NYC, it makes more sense to fly EWR daily.

So, basically, UA/CO should retreat and shrink in the Brazilian market?

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 34):
Won't CO and JJ codeshare on the route?

Yes, but how does that help UA/CO flyers outside New York?

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2010-04-25 19:41:54 and read 3414 times.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 35):
So, basically, UA/CO should retreat and shrink in the Brazilian market?

You are putting words in my mouth. I wonder whether there are better opportunities than lots of GIG service.

We seemingly agree that 21/week to GIG is too much - 10 or 12 versus 14 isn't a big difference.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 35):
Yes, but how does that help UA/CO flyers outside New York?

It doesn't. Daily service from IAH does.

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: C010T3
Posted 2010-04-25 20:04:01 and read 3310 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 36):
You are putting words in my mouth.

No, I'm just concluding that from the fact that you are of the opinion that well established IAD service should be downsized.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 36):
I wonder whether there are better opportunities than lots of GIG service.

How is an additional daily flight "lots of GIG service"? Any additional overnight capacity pulls demand from AA's and JJ's daylight flights, not from CO's or UA's current services.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 36):
We seemingly agree that 21/week to GIG is too much - 10 or 12 versus 14 isn't a big difference.

21x weekly NYC-GIG is just the size.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 36):
It doesn't. Daily service from IAH does.

No, IAH service is not an option for the Northeast or the Mid-Atlantic states.

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2010-04-25 20:08:46 and read 3302 times.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 37):
No, IAH service is not an option for the Northeast or the Mid-Atlantic states.

For most points south/west of EWR, the difference in distance is not material - going through IAH may even be faster given how congested and delay-prone EWR is. I wouldn't book a connection of less than about 3 hours to a longhaul flight at EWR.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 37):
I'm just concluding that from the fact that you are of the opinion that well established IAD service should be downsized.

Moving the frequencies to another route is not "retreating and shrinking in the Brasilian market."

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 37):
How is an additional daily flight "lots of GIG service"?

UA and CO cannot sustain their current amount of GIG service year round today.

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: C010T3
Posted 2010-04-25 20:30:23 and read 3255 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 38):
For most points south/west of EWR, the difference in distance is not material - going through IAH may even be faster given how congested and delay-prone EWR is

That's only true if you only consider connections with 3-hour layovers at EWR and if most points south/west of EWR had as dense schedules to IAH as they do to EWR.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 38):
Moving the frequencies to another route

What route? DEN-GRU, SFO-GRU? There is no other Eastern hub to be covered (unless you think CLE would ever work), so you must considering the West. I don't see any Western hub working, in fact, IAH is the best fit to cover the Western market.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 38):
UA and CO cannot sustain their current amount of GIG service year round today.

If CO couldn't sustain the current amount of service to GIG year-round, the route wouldn't be flown with a 764 year-round. Shifting IAD-GIG to EWR-GIG is exactly the boost needed to make it work

Topic: RE: Merged UA-CO: What International Network Changes?
Username: ManuCH
Posted 2010-04-25 22:21:33 and read 3083 times.

There is now an official thread to discuss this. Please continue discussion there:

Possible UA/CO Merger: Impact On Fleets & Routes (by Moderators Apr 25 2010 in Civil Aviation)

This thread will now be locked.

Any additional posts that are made to this thread after this post will be removed for housekeeping purposes, as this may happen due to a short system lag.


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/