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Topic: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: American 767
Posted 2010-04-26 07:28:44 and read 7021 times.

Hi everyone,

It's been a while since we haven't talked about the Super 80 at American.
Have you noticed that flights out of ORD to most markets on the West Coast do not see the Super 80 anymore? Only ORD-PSP does. Most ORD-West Coast flights are now 738's.
ORD-LAX and ORD-SFO see the 738 on the majority of flights with the exception of one flight that sees the 763 probably for repositioning purposes. No more Super 80.
ORD-SNA sees the 757, that's normal. It always saw the 757.
ORD-SAN, ORD-PSP and ORD-SEA are now going all 738. No more Super 80.

It looks like the end of the Super 80 at American is on the horizon, although it will still be seen on the ORD-DFW and ORD-LGA hourly flights for a few more years. Sad to see the Super 80 being pulled out. I'd better fly on those before it's too late.

Ben Soriano

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: alexinwa
Posted 2010-04-26 07:37:40 and read 6988 times.

Remember when these routes (ORD-LAX, ORD-SFO, ORD-SEA) had DC10's and 767 flying multiple times a day?

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: surfandsnow
Posted 2010-04-26 07:48:02 and read 6916 times.

Quoting American 767 (Thread starter):
It's been a while since we haven't talked about the Super 80 at American.

It's no secret that those ratty old planes are the bane of many an a.netter's existence! They get criticized all the time...

Quoting American 767 (Thread starter):
Have you noticed that flights out of ORD to most markets on the West Coast do not see the Super 80 anymore? Only ORD-PSP does. Most ORD-West Coast flights are now 738's.

It's about time! I mean, the MD-80s don't offer any IFE at all - if nothing else, almost all 4 hour flights in the U.S. at least have a movie playing on the overhead monitors. I've never understood how AA could compete with its MD-80s against UA, which has always flown nicer, new planes (Airbuses, 757s, 767s, 777s, and even 747s) on the ORD-California routes. I can understand you don't have a choice when flying other long MD-80 routes like DFW-PDX or DFW-YYC, but out of ORD, I can't see how the MD-80s have been flying beyond the 2-3 hour radius all these years...

Quoting American 767 (Thread starter):
It looks like the end of the Super 80 at American is on the horizon, although it will still be seen on the ORD-DFW and ORD-LGA hourly flights for a few more years.

Ahhh if only such was the case. I've heard many of those leases go into the 2020s. By then, the 738s will be outdated!

Quoting American 767 (Thread starter):
Sad to see the Super 80 being pulled out. I'd better fly on those before it's too late.

You can't be serious! You actually WANT to fly one for 4 hours?!?

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: flyfree727
Posted 2010-04-26 07:54:40 and read 6864 times.

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 2):
I've never understood how AA could compete with its MD-80s
Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 2):
I can't see how the MD-80s have been flying beyond the 2-3 hour radius all these years...

Price. Cheapest fare. Its what customes actually want.

AA ORD

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: FlyPNS1
Posted 2010-04-26 08:26:45 and read 6746 times.

Quoting American 767 (Thread starter):
It looks like the end of the Super 80 at American is on the horizon

If by on the horizon, you mean 5-10 years then you are correct. But there is still plenty of time (and plenty of routes) to fly an AA MD80.

Quoting flyfree727 (Reply 3):
Price. Cheapest fare. Its what customes actually want.

Only problem is that AA's costs aren't low enough to be competing solely on price.

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: Jacobin777
Posted 2010-04-26 08:27:07 and read 6747 times.

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 2):
Quoting American 767 (Thread starter):
It's been a while since we haven't talked about the Super 80 at American.

It's no secret that those ratty old planes are the bane of many an a.netter's existence! They get criticized all the time...

I love the MadDogs, especially on the left side of the plane (and anything in front of the wings) where Mrs.Jacobin777 and I can sit privately. Also, the MadDogs are getting fitted with WiFi which makes the flights just that much better...

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: atrude777
Posted 2010-04-26 08:49:46 and read 6658 times.

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 2):

You can't be serious! You actually WANT to fly one for 4 hours?!?

I'd take it with leather headrest, wifi, and 2 side plane over a 757 anytime.

I am usually upgraded to F Class being Gold, so I would much prefer the S80 F Class seats than the tattered Brown Leather seats on the 757.

I compare 757/S80 because in STL we don't get the 738.

Alex

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2010-04-26 08:52:51 and read 6643 times.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 5):
I love the MadDogs, especially on the left side of the plane (and anything in front of the wings) where Mrs.Jacobin777 and I can sit privately. Also, the MadDogs are getting fitted with WiFi which makes the flights just that much better...

   I also enjoy the MD-80s over both the 738 and especially the 757.

Only downside for some might be lack of IFE, but with much of the MD-80 fleet having WiFi already you can do that if you want.

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: aa61hvy
Posted 2010-04-26 09:13:10 and read 6539 times.

I flew SFO-ORD the other week on a redeye and it was a 738. I had picked this flight because originally when I booked it it was a S80 and I took a seat on the A side. I loved the 2-3 seating. They switched to the 738. Grr. I hate the 738 and 757 for AA!

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: Denver11
Posted 2010-04-26 09:16:25 and read 6511 times.

As a person that flew Northwest most of the time to LAX and SNA, IFE was never inportant. The few times I did fly AA on those flights, I made sure it was on a MD 80 so I could sit on the left side with only two seats. Love them.

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: SJC>SFO
Posted 2010-04-26 09:57:26 and read 6389 times.

Yeah honestly, I spent most of my time last year flying SFO-DFW on M80s and I don't know what all the complaints are about. 12 hour transatlantics are one thing, but midcons, seriously, get some work done and grab a book/newspaper/magazine. Add to that the fact that the 80s are getting internet before everyone else, and the sheer awfulness of AA's 757s, and I'll take the 80s any day. F on the S80s became more or less a second home. =)


Powerports on the 737 are the one big positive. Other than that, not sure what the big deal is.

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: American 767
Posted 2010-04-26 11:39:05 and read 6177 times.

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 2):
You can't be serious! You actually WANT to fly one for 4 hours?!?

If I get upgraded to F, sure. Especially if I have a window seat.
Even if I have a window within the first few rows of the Y cabin, sure. That's what I always look for when I book a flight which is a Super 80.
I wouldn't want to fly on that one for four hours if I'm seated in the last row, I would do that only if I have no other choice.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
I also enjoy the MD-80s over both the 738 and especially the 757.

Me too. But still, I like all three.

Quoting Denver11 (Reply 9):
I could sit on the left side with only two seats

That's important if you travel with your companion and just want to be the two of you. But if you travel by yourself, it doesn't matter.

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 6):
tattered Brown Leather seats on the 757.

Yeah, I flew on one from MIA to EWR about a month ago. I was upgraded to F Class, had decent service on board, but it was the old brown seats. I felt I was back in the 90's. Nevertheless, I was happy.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 4):
If by on the horizon, you mean 5-10 years then you are correct.

Yes, I meant 2020 at the latest. By then American will start phasing out the 738.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 4):
But there is still plenty of time (and plenty of routes) to fly an AA MD80.

Especially if you fly out of DFW. If you take a domestic flight out of DFW chances are you get a Super 80.

Quoting SJC>SFO (Reply 10):
and the sheer awfulness of AA's 757s

I don't think they are awful at all, even considering the outdated F Class product. The Y Cabin on the AA757 is nice. I would not hesitate to fly on one TATL.

Ben Soriano

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: mogandoCI
Posted 2010-04-26 11:43:03 and read 6157 times.

the irony of trying to associate the word "Super" with anything from MD from the past 30 years  

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: tommy767
Posted 2010-04-26 11:45:43 and read 6139 times.

Lot of ORD to the east and west with the new AA 738s. Key cities that get the 738s from ORD include BOS, EWR, DCA, FLL, SJU, LAX, SFO, LAS etc.

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: flyfree727
Posted 2010-04-26 11:48:45 and read 6104 times.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 12):
the irony of trying to associate the word "Super" with anything from MD from the past 30 years

Well they ARE called super 80's.. Because they were super...... in the 80's  

AA ORD

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2010-04-26 12:21:26 and read 6017 times.

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 2):

It's about time! I mean, the MD-80s don't offer any IFE at all - if nothing else, almost all 4 hour flights in the U.S. at least have a movie playing on the overhead monitors.

I mean, WN flies 737s from MDW to the West Coast, and they don't offer any IFE. Yet, people still fly them. Your point?

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: DLMD90
Posted 2010-04-26 12:25:59 and read 5997 times.

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 2):
You can't be serious! You actually WANT to fly one for 4 hours?!?


Despite what some of you think, there are still a lot of us that Love the Super80! I'll be flying BOS-DFW-SEA next week, just so I can get in about 8 hours on the bird. It's a great aircraft!!!

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: Type-Rated
Posted 2010-04-26 12:28:41 and read 5970 times.

There is just something about the Super 80 when it is totally full that makes it uncomfortable. I think it's because if you have a window seat you are crushed up against the wall. I never noticed this on the DC-9. I always try to get the 2 side. I have flown IAH-DFW quite a few times on the 80 and that is bad enough. I couldn't imagine a ORD-West Coast flight on one.

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: Jacobin777
Posted 2010-04-26 17:48:29 and read 5676 times.

Quoting DLMD90 (Reply 16):
Despite what some of you think, there are still a lot of us that Love the Super80!

Ostensibly, it seems if the majority of people here actually like the MadDogs..  ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBlte12Upyk


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Jacobin777

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: McMax
Posted 2010-04-27 06:56:21 and read 5218 times.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 18):
Ostensibly, it seems if the majority of people here actually like the MadDogs.

Count me as one of those people too! Even if I'm travelling on my one, I still prefer the 2-side seat on the aisle. Only one person needs to climb over me to get out. And, as others have said, getting upgraded on an MD-80 means much nicer F than 757s. SNA is my home airport, and I fly the 757 to ORD on AA a lot. That plane needs lots and lots of work. Give me an MD-80 any day. Plus, I love the sense of power and thrust when the MD-80 takes off. It feels like I'm sitting on a rocket blasting off.

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: kbmiflyer
Posted 2010-04-27 07:14:41 and read 5149 times.

Count me as another person who would rather fly the MD-80 over the 737.

Aadvantages of the MD-80

2-3 seating can accommodate almost any traveling party size without sharing with a stranger, 737 has to be factor of 3.
80% chance of aisle or window seat in Y, compared to 66% in 737
Wider Y seats
Better leg room in exit rows
Slightly more leg room Y seats in front of exit row
More overhead bin space per passenger (due to 2-3 seating).
Engine noise in the rear, most seats are quieter.

Aadvanatage of 737-800

Better F seat
IFE
Normal power ports instead of DC style
Newer
One more FA (4 vs 3)

To me, the advantages of the MD-80 far outweigh the advantages of the 737. The only thing I really like better in the 737 is the F seat. The other advantages are all fairly small issues for me. The 2-3 seating is the primary reason I choose American over United to be my primary airline (United has since left BMI airport, so it ended up being a good decision)

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: SLUAviator
Posted 2010-04-27 07:19:49 and read 5127 times.

I rode the jumpseat from ORD-RNO last summer on an AA 738. The crew told me that not only does the 73 carry more people, depending on winds it needs an average of 4-5000 pounds less fuel then the 80 on that leg. Figure an average weight of 6.7 pounds/gallon equals 746 gallons saved, and if gas is $2.25/gallon $1680/flight. Multiply that by a daily flight and that is almost $613,000 a year. Do the math on all of the 4 hour legs out of ORD and that's a big money savings.

Using the FMS, they showed me just how efficient the 738 is. With the gas from doing ORD-RNO, we essentially could have diverted to any airport on the west coast, shot an approach, went missed and diverted to just about any other city on the west coast. We could have turned around from over the middle of WY, and went direct ORD. We probably could have made it to the east coast (granted we would have landed with less then a 1000 pounds) as well. I was amazed at just how crazy efficient those things are.

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: fxramper
Posted 2010-04-27 07:24:49 and read 5114 times.

This topic has been discussed quite recently. AA will continue to fly the S80 out of SFO to ORD until 01May10.

#554 SFO San Francisco Apr 30, 2010 01:50 PM ORD Chicago Apr 30, 2010 08:10 PM M83

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 6):
I'd take it with leather headrest, wifi, and 2 side plane over a 757 anytime.

  

Doing ORD-SNA on a 752 was miserable. I'll echo the above sentiments; give me a Madog!   

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: WA707atMSP
Posted 2010-04-27 07:53:59 and read 5030 times.

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 2):
It's about time! I mean, the MD-80s don't offer any IFE at all - if nothing else, almost all 4 hour flights in the U.S. at least have a movie playing on the overhead monitors. I've never understood how AA could compete with its MD-80s against UA,

Most passengers are either (A) business travellers, who want to work most of the flight, or, if they want to be entertained, will watch a movie on their laptop instead of watching the inflight movie, or (B) price sensitive vacationers, who will miss the absence of a movie, but will usually choose the airline with the cheapest fares, rather than the airline that offers movies. I would be SHOCKED if the absence of IFE alone is causing meaningful numbers of passengers to avoid AA.

Personally, I've always far preferred the MD-80 to the 737. In addition to the points raised by others, I prefer the MD-80 to the 737 because the MD-80's wings are so long and slender that most window seats on an MD-80 are unobstructed by the wing, and even if you are over the wing, you can still see some of the scenery ahead or behind the wing.

However, the 737's wings and engines make it much harder to see the scenery. If you're in coach, only the first couple of rows, and the last couple of rows, are unobstructed by the wing or engines - and you also have to be careful to make sure you're not seated in the rows that have no windows at all, because they are where the two sections of the fuselage are joined.

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: ckfred
Posted 2010-04-27 11:29:43 and read 4861 times.

For a flight under 2.5 hours, the MD-80 is a great airplane. Over 2.5 hours, it's not good, if you aren't prepared for a lack of IFE. If you have reading material, work, or a laptop/DVD player, then you're fine.

One problem with the MD-80 overhead bins is that they aren't as tall as on the 737 or 757. I've seen plenty of people complaining that their rollerboard slipped easily into the bin on a Boeing narrowbody, but they have to shove with some force to get rollerboards into the MD-80 bins.


Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 23):
However, the 737's wings and engines make it much harder to see the scenery. If you're in coach, only the first couple of rows, and the last couple of rows, are unobstructed by the wing or engines - and you also have to be careful to make sure you're not seated in the rows that have no windows at all, because they are where the two sections of the fuselage are joined.

You also don't want to sit in the last 2 rows of an MD-80. The last row has no window, and the row ahead gives you a very nice view of the engine cowling.

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: Jacobin777
Posted 2010-04-27 12:02:17 and read 4873 times.

Quoting McMax (Reply 19):
Plus, I love the sense of power and thrust when the MD-80 takes off. It feels like I'm sitting on a rocket blasting off.

Check out my youtube.com video link... 
Quoting SLUAviator (Reply 21):
I rode the jumpseat from ORD-RNO last summer on an AA 738. The crew told me that not only does the 73 carry more people, depending on winds it needs an average of 4-5000 pounds less fuel then the 80 on that leg. Figure an average weight of 6.7 pounds/gallon equals 746 gallons saved, and if gas is $2.25/gallon $1680/flight. Multiply that by a daily flight and that is almost $613,000 a year. Do the math on all of the 4 hour legs out of ORD and that's a big money savings.

  ....an AA MadDog pilot on our flight was giving close the the same numbers...

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: 727tiger
Posted 2010-04-27 12:34:05 and read 4784 times.

Got to fly AA MadDogs a couple of weeks ago, ORD-PHX and PHX-DFW. To me, it still remains a unique flying experience that I hope to repeat soon enough as long as they're flying. Luckily, G4 flies out of SGF, so I still have an opportunity to fly their MadDogs as well.

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2010-04-27 14:42:27 and read 4661 times.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 24):
You also don't want to sit in the last 2 rows of an MD-80. The last row has no window, and the row ahead gives you a very nice view of the engine cowling.

Another reason to avoid the last couple of rows. DL MD-88 with an uncontained engine failure at PNS in 1996. Two passengers killed.

http://aviation-safety.net/photos/accidents/750/19960706-0-C-d-3-750.jpg

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: 777fan
Posted 2010-04-27 17:55:46 and read 4419 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 13):
Key cities that get the 738s from ORD include BOS, EWR, DCA, FLL, SJU, LAX, SFO, LAS etc.

Yeah, and as with seemingly every 738 or MD-80 flight out of DCA (all AA, of course), I find myself looking out my office window 5-6 times a day to watch them nearly clip the fence near Waverly Island! Everytime I see an MD80 "climb" out at a 1 degree angle of attack, I can't help but think that a salon somewhere is missing two hairdryers...

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 18):
Ostensibly, it seems if the majority of people here actually like the MadDogs.. ..

I'll grant you that to an extent but only for nostalgia's sake. Seems the MD-80 is more about noise than power on climb out; in the video you linked, a 757 would've been cruising at FL350 by the time the MadDog's piston-powered window fans finally cranked up enough thrust to pull up the nose!

777fan

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: aviateur
Posted 2010-04-27 17:58:50 and read 4409 times.

Didn't PSA once fly L-1011s between SFO and LAX?


I remember Delta L-1011s between BOS and JFK. TWA L-1011s on the same.

And of course, Eastern's A300s between BOS and LGA.


PS

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: aviateur
Posted 2010-04-27 18:04:52 and read 4396 times.

The MD-80 is a nice ride in the forward cabin, but those seats in the very aft, in the stretched section between the airstairs and the bulkhead...

those are possibly the worst seats in all of commercial aviation. It's loud, dark, disorienting.



PS

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: flyfree727
Posted 2010-04-27 20:02:17 and read 4224 times.

Quoting aviateur (Reply 30):
those seats in the very aft, in the stretched section between the airstairs and the bulkhead...

those are possibly the worst seats in all of commercial aviation. It's loud, dark, disorienting.

When the flight is not full the agents try and block these seats for the crew.. After boarding is complete, all of a sudden, these are the most desired seats, as passengers ALWAYS request to move to these seats when the load is light and these seats are empty.

AA ORD

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: Jacobin777
Posted 2010-04-27 21:21:52 and read 4128 times.

Quoting 777fan (Reply 28):
a 757 would've been cruising at FL350 by the time the MadDog's piston-powered window fans finally cranked up enough thrust to pull up the nose!

Well yah, there is no comparison to a "Rocket-757"...most over-powered planes flying today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXsQj5U4jHk

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: ckfred
Posted 2010-04-28 12:23:27 and read 3858 times.

Once I was on an AA 757 from ORD to SEA. With long lines of planes waiting for depature on 32L and 9L (now 9R), the captain decided to take off on 4L, which is ORD's shortest runway at 7500'. We used about 5300' for take-off, after the captain decided to run up the engines before releasing the brakes.

I'm not sure an MD-80 with a full cabin, plenty of mail and baggage, and enough fuel for ORD-SEA could get off the ground in 5300'.

Topic: RE: ORD-LAX And ORD-SFO No More Super 80?
Username: American 767
Posted 2010-04-28 20:01:45 and read 3630 times.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 33):
I'm not sure an MD-80 with a full cabin, plenty of mail and baggage, and enough fuel for ORD-SEA could get off the ground in 5300'.

I'm not sure either, but I think this also depends on the air density (which varies with altitude and temperature) and the surface winds. If you are talking about sea level and a considerable headwind on the runway, then maybe it could do it, and it's a big MAYBE, but if you are talking about an airport like DEN in hot and high conditions then I don't think it could.

Ben Soriano


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