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Topic: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: ojas
Posted 2010-07-27 00:48:04 and read 10371 times.

According to the GDS, effective winter 2010 schedule, AI will start BOM - EWR non stop and a same flight number service to AMD using an A321.

AI 191 BOM - EWR 0130 0715 15 hours 45 mins
AI 144 EWR - BOM 1625 1740+1 14hrs 45 mins

Aircraft: not clear as of now.

And, with this move, AI will be ending the FRA scissors hub. AI will just have one DEL - FRA terminator flight.

[Edited 2010-07-27 01:09:42]

[Edited 2010-07-27 01:14:22]

[Edited 2010-07-27 01:16:01]

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: tharanga
Posted 2010-07-27 00:52:52 and read 10361 times.

The inbound and outbound flight numbers don't line up?

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: ojas
Posted 2010-07-27 01:00:53 and read 10349 times.

Quoting tharanga (Reply 1):
The inbound and outbound flight numbers don't line up?

Its been like that since ages,

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: RJ111
Posted 2010-07-27 01:54:12 and read 10263 times.

So what will the future US services look like for AI?

BOM-EWR
DEL-ORD 772LR
DEL-LHR-JFK

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: ojas
Posted 2010-07-27 01:58:04 and read 10256 times.

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 3):
BOM-EWR
DEL-ORD 772LR
DEL-LHR-JFK

AMD-BOM-EWR
HYD-DEL-ORD
BOM-DEL-JFK

Further ... ATQ-DEL-YYZ is expected.

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2010-07-27 01:59:59 and read 10256 times.

Quoting ojas (Thread starter):
AI 191 BOM - EWR 0130 0715 15 hours 45 mins
AI 144 EWR - BOM 1625 1740+1 14hrs 45 mins

Aircraft: not clear as of now.

Looks like the aircraft will be on the ground at EWR around 9 hours, which doesn't help AI's dismal aircraft utilisation rate.

The flight will be within 4 hours of CO's flight on both ends. CO flight time:
BOM>EWR 11:40p–5:20a | 16h 10m
EWR>BOM 8:20p–9:40p | 14h 50m

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: ojas
Posted 2010-07-27 08:22:11 and read 9969 times.

The aircraft used on this route is to be a B777-200LR.

My sources had pointed out that a load restricted B77W would be in operation, but it seems the LR is the choice to EWR.

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2010-07-27 11:22:26 and read 9762 times.

Quoting ojas (Reply 6):
The aircraft used on this route is to be a B777-200LR.

My sources had pointed out that a load restricted B77W would be in operation, but it seems the LR is the choice to EWR.

Are there any other flight flown/proposed from BOM using B77L? If none, then it seems likely that six B77L will be based in DEL.

It would make more sense to switch to B77W on BOM-EWR at a later date so that all eight B77L are based in DEL, which could lead to higher utilisation of B77L. Depending on the DEL-NA schedule, AI could schedule B77Ls on SE Asia/HKG or ME routes from DEL to achieve higher utilisation. CO is very good at doing this.

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: ewrkid
Posted 2010-07-27 11:51:37 and read 9707 times.

Quoting ojas (Thread starter):

Awesome Awesome news!!!

Quoting ojas (Reply 6):
My sources had pointed out that a load restricted B77W would be in operation, but it seems the LR is the choice to EWR.

Great aircraft choice indeed, this aircraft is not currently operated to EWR by any carrier so this is very good news!!! What about DEL-EWR n/s?? One more questions will this flight be daily?

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: ojas
Posted 2010-07-27 11:55:17 and read 9688 times.

Quoting ewrkid (Reply 8):
What about DEL-EWR n/s?? One more questions will this flight be daily?

It's DEL - JFK, BOM - EWR; no DEL - EWR on AI.

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2010-07-27 11:57:27 and read 9684 times.

Interesting how the EWR-BOM segment is timed to leave and arrive around the same time that the JFK-DEL flight is. I wonder how this nonstop will be able to compete with CO's existing service. Good luck to AI!

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: fortunerunnner
Posted 2010-07-27 11:57:56 and read 9684 times.

Quoting ojas (Reply 6):
My sources had pointed out that a load restricted B77W would be in operation, but it seems the LR is the choice to EWR.

This is strange and not sure if I understand the logic behind using 77L to EWR. Aren't they currently using 77W via FRA and able to fill it. Even if they take a slight penalty out of BOM on 77W, they should stick with it and utilize 77L somewhere else.

77L on this route means there will be less number of seats and EWR should be able to fill 77W just fine. If CO can do BOM-EWR with 772ER then there is no reason why AI can't do the same route with 77W. I would think 77W is quite a capable machine as proven by EK on their SFO runs and for the most part BOM-EWR can be done on 77W without much penalty if CO is able to do it on 772ERs.

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: ojas
Posted 2010-07-27 12:05:13 and read 9660 times.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 10):
Interesting how the EWR-BOM segment is timed to leave and arrive around the same time that the JFK-DEL flight is. I wonder how this nonstop will be able to compete with CO's existing service. Good luck to AI!

It has already been competing with CO with a one stop service so far and were doing good, the non stop will just be better.

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: ojas
Posted 2010-07-27 12:14:11 and read 9636 times.

Quoting fortunerunnner (Reply 11):
If CO can do BOM-EWR with 772ER then there is no reason why AI can't do the same route with 77W. I would think 77W is quite a capable machine as proven by EK on their SFO runs and for the most part BOM-EWR can be done on 77W without much penalty if CO is able to do it on 772ERs.

FYI, EK on DXB- SFO goes on a payload restriction they cannot fill the plane to full capacity (I believe it is 325 pax outof 354); same thing with CO ... IIRC CO cannot carry revenue cargo on their BOM - EWR flight. AI's BOM - EWR flight would be able to take 306 pax outbound (BOM -> EWR) and full passengers inbound (342). Also, our back end rumors were suggesting a B77W for this route as well. But then AI chose the B77L, which will carry full cargo and pax ... and maybe upgrade to a B77W later.

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2010-07-27 12:17:17 and read 9627 times.

Quoting ojas (Reply 13):
But then AI chose the B77L, which will carry full cargo and pax ... and maybe upgrade to a B77W later.

That makes more sense. Keep all the B77Ls at DEL for maximum fleet utilisation.

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2010-07-27 12:21:40 and read 9607 times.

Quoting ojas (Thread starter):
AI will be ending the FRA scissors hub

Ironic that AI of all carriers is the first Indian carrier to see the light.

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: ojas
Posted 2010-07-27 12:28:46 and read 9570 times.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 7):
Are there any other flight flown/proposed from BOM using B77L? If none, then it seems likely that six B77L will be based in DEL.

In the winter schedule, the B77Ls will do the following routes

DEL - ORD .. 2 aircrafts
DEL - FRA ,.. 1 aircraft
DEL - HKG - ICN/KIX .. 1 aircraft
DEL - LHR ... 1 aircraft (From winter AI will go 10 weekly to double daily on DEL - LHR ..B77L + B77W)
DEL - CDG & DEL - NRT (3pw and 4pw respectively) .. 1 aircraft.

BOM - EWR .. 2 aircrafts

Not the best utilisation, but at least all aircrafts would be in use.

**********************************
B77Ws ....

DEL - YYZ .. 2 aircrafts
DEL - JFK .. 2 aircrafts
DEL - MEL .. 2 aircrafts
DEL - LHR .. 1 aircraft

BOM - LHR .. 1 aircraft

Even if one extra is kept to rotate with the 8 tightly used B77Ws, AI will still have 3 ERs doing nothing. Plus they have another 3 on order. Of course all the leased B777s have been sent back, A310s and B744s have restricted use to Saudi Arabia only.
BOM -

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2010-07-27 12:31:50 and read 9566 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
Ironic that AI of all carriers is the first Indian carrier to see the light.

They have the B77Ls, which other Indian carries don't have. Don't forget T3, an integrated terminal, at DEL just came online.

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: USPIT10L
Posted 2010-07-27 12:35:31 and read 9556 times.

Quoting ojas (Thread starter):
And, with this move, AI will be ending the FRA scissors hub. AI will just have one DEL - FRA terminator flight.

What about AMDFRA, or was that a tagon for FRADEL or FRABOM? Stupid Wikipedia.  

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: ojas
Posted 2010-07-27 12:38:46 and read 9547 times.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 18):
What about AMDFRA, or was that a tagon for FRADEL or FRABOM? Stupid Wikipedia.

AMD - FRA - EWR which is operational now is replaced by AMD-BOM-EWR. FRA will have just obe daily flight to DEL.

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2010-07-27 12:39:08 and read 9547 times.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 17):
They have the B77Ls, which other Indian carries don't have. Don't forget T3, an integrated terminal, at DEL just came online.

9W/IT have/had similarly capable aircraft, and while T3 should be a major coup for AI, people have been connecting through hell holes for years--in SVO they still do  The only question is, how do 9W/IT respond?

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: kaitak744
Posted 2010-07-27 12:40:11 and read 9540 times.

Quoting ojas (Reply 16):
Even if one extra is kept to rotate with the 8 tightly used B77Ws, AI will still have 3 ERs doing nothing. Plus they have another 3 on order. Of course all the leased B777s have been sent back, A310s and B744s have restricted use to Saudi Arabia only.

777-300ERs also fly BOM-SIN and BOM-DXB daily each

8) B777-200LRs

* DEL - ORD
* BOM - EWR
* DEL - FRA
* DEL - LHR
* DEL - NRT 4pw
* DEL - CDG 3pw
* BOM - DEL - HKG - ICN 4pw
* DEL - HKG - KIX 3pw


12+3) B777-300ERs

* BOM - DEL - JFK
* BOM - LHR
* DEL - LHR
* DEL - LHR - YYZ 3pw
* ATQ - LHR - YYZ 4pw
* DEL - MEL
* BOM - SIN
* BOM - DXB

Did they end the AMD-FRA route?
Also, is YYZ for sure going nonstop? In that case, will they keep ATQ - LHR?

2) A330-200

* BOM - DEL - PVG 4pw

[Edited 2010-07-27 12:41:29]

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: ojas
Posted 2010-07-27 12:45:24 and read 9516 times.

Quoting kaitak744 (Reply 21):
777-300ERs also fly BOM-SIN and BOM-DXB daily each

In the winter it is back to the A32S, and all the above a/c utilisation i mentioned is effective winter 2010 schedule

Quoting kaitak744 (Reply 21):
Did they end the AMD-FRA route?

Ending from 30th October. AMD - FRA - EWR will now be AMD-BOM-EWR.

Quoting kaitak744 (Reply 21):
Also, is YYZ for sure going nonstop?
Air India To Fly DEL - YYZ Non Stop Effective W10 (by ojas Jul 27 2010 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting kaitak744 (Reply 21):
In that case, will they keep ATQ - LHR?

That will end on 30th october as well.

Quoting kaitak744 (Reply 21):
BOM - DEL - PVG 4pw

Also,

* DEL - JED 3 pw
* BOM - JED 4 pw

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: USPIT10L
Posted 2010-07-27 12:57:59 and read 9489 times.

It appears BOM is being heavily dismantled on the international side. Too bad the AI site doesn't have a PDF timetable to keep track of the changes. Otherwise, looks like AI is getting ready to join Star with a rationalized network.

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: fortunerunnner
Posted 2010-07-27 13:15:36 and read 9450 times.

Quoting ojas (Reply 13):
FYI, EK on DXB- SFO goes on a payload restriction they cannot fill the plane to full capacity (I believe it is 325 pax outof 354); same thing with CO ... IIRC CO cannot carry revenue cargo on their BOM - EWR flight. AI's BOM - EWR flight would be able to take 306 pax outbound (BOM -> EWR) and full passengers inbound (342). Also, our back end rumors were suggesting a B77W for this route as well. But then AI chose the B77L, which will carry full cargo and pax ... and maybe upgrade to a B77W later.

Yeah...I know that EK takes payload restrictions and some time scheduled refueling stops such as the one they took some days ago in SEA. However I was wondering wouldn't the slight payload restriction be better than substantially lower number of seats that 77L offers. Is revenue potential for this route from cargo significantly outweighs the lost pax count?

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: kiwiandrew
Posted 2010-07-27 13:22:00 and read 9508 times.

Quoting fortunerunnner (Reply 24):
However I was wondering wouldn't the slight payload restriction be better than substantially lower number of seats that 77L offers. Is revenue potential for this route from cargo significantly outweighs the lost pax count?

Sometimes freight pays better than pax. In that case it can be better to not offer so many seats to the lowest yield pax and carry freight instead .

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: fortunerunnner
Posted 2010-07-27 13:54:59 and read 9477 times.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 25):
Sometimes freight pays better than pax. In that case it can be better to not offer so many seats to the lowest yield pax and carry freight instead .

Hopefully that is the case here. Knowing AI's past we can never be sure if their decisions were based on such sound business logic or a toss of a coin.   

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: ojas
Posted 2010-07-29 04:47:17 and read 9123 times.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 23):
It appears BOM is being heavily dismantled on the international side.

And paving way to 9W to have a hub there.

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: 9W748Capt
Posted 2010-07-29 07:40:07 and read 9012 times.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 23):
It appears BOM is being heavily dismantled on the international side.

When will BOM's new terminal be ready? Will it be comparable to DEL's new T3 in terms of convenience for int'l to domestic connections?

Topic: RE: Air India To Start BOM - EWR Non Stop From W10
Username: fortunerunnner
Posted 2010-07-29 09:33:52 and read 8928 times.

Quoting 9W748Capt (Reply 28):
When will BOM's new terminal be ready? Will it be comparable to DEL's new T3 in terms of convenience for int'l to domestic connections?

I think the new terminal is slated to be completed by 2012 and it will be integrated terminal just like DEL. Once it goes into operations, connecting at BOM T2 should be as seamless as DEL T3.

However, since current airport at BOM is constrained by space, most probably real spur and change will happen only when Navi Mumbai International Airport gets completed and major operations shift there from the current airport. NMIA currently stuck and pending environmental clearance due to the concerns about mangroves that will need to be eradicated and river diversions that will need to happen to make way for the airport .


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