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Topic: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2010-08-04 09:39:08 and read 13481 times.

It seems that 7 of 14 puppys put on AA-851 in TUL died. Five of them were dead when the plane arrived in ORD, and two more died at a vets office.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local...rline-Investigation--99941179.html

AA will conduct an investigation, including talking to employees who handled the pups in TUL.

Topic: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: SW733
Posted 2010-08-04 09:41:20 and read 13475 times.

My fiance was in Tulsa yesterday on business and said how gosh darn hot it was, even at 7:30am - heat index near 100 even in the morning. Just my speculation...

Always a sad story when it happens.

Topic: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2010-08-04 09:48:36 and read 13408 times.

Quoting SW733 (Reply 1):
My fiance was in Tulsa yesterday on business and said how gosh darn hot it was, even at 7:30am - heat index near 100 even in the morning. Just my speculation...

Those temps would not surprise me, here in the DFW area, it has been well over 100 degrees for about a week and no let up insite. This is typical for this time of year.

Topic: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: nycbjr
Posted 2010-08-04 09:50:32 and read 13377 times.

Surprised they even allowed them on, I Believe most carriers ban the transport of animals in hold during the summer months for just this reason.

Sad to here about the pups!

[Edited 2010-08-04 10:15:04]

Topic: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: thegreatRDU
Posted 2010-08-04 10:10:41 and read 13244 times.

My guess is a lawsuit ensues

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):
puppys

It's puppies bro...

Topic: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: nwafflyer
Posted 2010-08-04 10:47:53 and read 13092 times.

Yes, I'm surprised AA flew them. I've flown dogs on both Delta and NW (before the merger) and they won't fly an animal outside of a very cautious temperature range. I'll be flying a pup to Scotland in February/March time frame, and I'll make sure the outside temperature both in DTW and GLA is above freezing

Topic: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: MYT332
Posted 2010-08-04 10:48:08 and read 13085 times.

Phew! Thank god it's only dogs that died here. When you said puppies I was thinking, well, god knows. Some kind of implant deflation....

Heaven forbid!

Topic: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: Dl767captain
Posted 2010-08-04 11:06:44 and read 12971 times.

Quoting MYT332 (Reply 6):
Thank god it's only dogs that died here.

Dude it's puppies! how can you not be sad about poor dead puppies!

Seriously though, this is why I won't fly my dog anywhere, it's just a risk I'm not willing to take. It seems too common that dogs die in flight, get lost at the airport, or something else.

Topic: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2010-08-04 11:13:00 and read 12916 times.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 4):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):
puppys

It's puppies bro...

Oops

Quoting MYT332 (Reply 6):
When you said puppies I was thinking, well, god knows. Some kind of implant deflation....

You mean like from a "C" cup on both sides to a "B cup on one side and an "A" cup on the other side?

Topic: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: Aesma
Posted 2010-08-04 11:14:30 and read 12899 times.

Young animals should not fly anyway, not in the hold. If it's your dog you're bringing with you, then take it in the cabin. There it seems to be "cargo" dogs to be sold.

Topic: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: Numero4
Posted 2010-08-04 11:16:45 and read 12875 times.

Poor puppies. As a dog owner it saddens me.

Topic: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: EMBQA
Posted 2010-08-04 11:45:07 and read 12712 times.

Quoting Dl767captain (Reply 7):
Dude it's puppies! how can you not be sad about poor dead puppies!

Easy... what about the forgotten elderly living alone...!!

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: akizidy214
Posted 2010-08-04 15:16:06 and read 12233 times.

http://www.aa.com/i18n/travelInforma...alAssistance/travelingWithPets.jsp

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2010-08-04 15:43:56 and read 12134 times.

Quoting akizidy214 (Reply 12):
akizidy214

Seems AA violated their own policy;

http://www.aa.com/i18n/travelInforma...thPets.jsp#TemperatureRestrictions

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: Brick
Posted 2010-08-04 15:50:05 and read 12100 times.

Early DC-9's had a "puppy snuffer" switch (to turn off the cargo heat).

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: chase
Posted 2010-08-04 16:48:12 and read 11918 times.

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 11):

Easy... what about the forgotten elderly living alone...!!

Buy them a puppy?

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: mayor
Posted 2010-08-04 17:34:09 and read 11420 times.

I'm sure AA has much the same rules as DL. DL's max temp for animals is 85F and 75F for snub nose dogs and cats.
Looks like somebody bypassed the rules on this one.

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: F9Animal
Posted 2010-08-04 18:30:00 and read 10812 times.

Quoting nycbjr (Reply 3):
Surprised they even allowed them on, I Believe most carriers ban the transport of animals in hold during the summer months for just this reason.

Sad to here about the pups!

Some to most airlines have rules regarding transporting animals in heat. United had a huge loss of animals on a DC-10 in ORD several years ago. This lead to some changes in this.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 4):
My guess is a lawsuit ensues

More than likely.

Quoting Numero4 (Reply 10):
Poor puppies. As a dog owner it saddens me.

Me too. Animals are very special, especially to us that love them.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 13):
Seems AA violated their own policy;

http://www.aa.com/i18n/travelInforma...tions

I did not make it down this far before commenting above. Very very unfortunate. I think this should be a wakeup call to increase agent training in areas of this responsibility. There is a high chance that this may be a leading factor in someone at AA shipping them. I know this is a soft area in Customer Service training in many airlines. I would like to see airlines increase this training awareness. Also, there should be a notice that comes up in a PNR that would warn of such. I recall a warning that would come across SABRE that would pinpoint a flight that was flying into a hot area, warning me that pets were not allowed to travel. Do they still do that? IIRC, that warning would come from OPS.

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: B6A322
Posted 2010-08-04 19:39:27 and read 10053 times.

It really is a shame (esp as a dog owner) to read about this happening, but I have to add humor to every situation, so:

Reminds me of a funny (albeit cruel) joke that fits this situation:

A woman is checking in for her flight to Tel Aviv on AA and is giving the agent an earful about how they need to be extra careful with her dog, its her most valuable possession, etc. After assuring her that they will take their utmost care with the dog, the lady proceeds through security and boards her flight.

Once the flight arrives in Tel Aviv, the ramp agent takes the dog (in cage) off of the plane, and, upon inspection realizes to his horror that the dog is dead. He calls a supervisor who agrees that they must find a suitable replacement dog, and place the live dog in the same cage.

When the woman finally receives the cage a few hours later, and sees the dog, she throws a fit "This isn't my dog! That was never my dog! My dog didn't look anything like this!"

The supervising ground agent who was present, said in a very defensive way, "how can you say that? that's the same dog you put on the plane in the US! We really were careful!"

To which the lady replies, "My dog was dead. I was going to Tel Aviv to bury him".

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: Plunaaircanada
Posted 2010-08-04 20:22:00 and read 9652 times.

Sad story poor dogs, I remember how scared my mother was when our cat flew GRU - YYZ but she arrived safely.

Quoting B6A322 (Reply 18):
Reminds me of a funny (albeit cruel) joke that fits this situation:

lol I rly liked the ending.

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: SSTsomeday
Posted 2010-08-04 20:51:35 and read 9351 times.

Quoting nycbjr (Reply 3):
Surprised they even allowed them on, I Believe most carriers ban the transport of animals in hold during the summer months for just this reason.

Yes, I believe that the airlines are self regulated and make their own rules in this regard. I looked into transporting two puppies as baggage this July (LAX-YYZ) so they could be with their family during their summer vacation in Canada, but was denied.

Air Canada has a moratorium on transporting dogs in as baggage at certain cities during certain months. It is city and date specific. So for example there is a moratorium on transporting dogs to/from Los Angeles between approx early June to early September, as I recall. The tarmac may become too hot while the dogs wait to be loaded. Likewise, I suppose similar rules apply in other cities during winter months, due to the cold.

Transporting dogs as freight (not baggage) involves somewhat different rules, and there seemed to be some disagreement depending who at Air Canada I was talking to, but it can cost about $1,000 per dog or more. I was told by one Air Canada rep. that they tend to send animals (as freight, mind you, not baggage) on the red eye from L.A. because that's when they can be assured that it's cool on the tarmac at both airports. I'm not sure what their policy is for Westbound animals - p[erhaps the first flight of the day? (due to no red-eye in that direction.) However there is also a moratorium on sending dogs as freight, though there was some disagreement between the AC reps as to what those rules actually were.

I also contacted a firm that specializes in transporting dogs and taking care of it all for you and they assured me that they were not bound by the airline moratoriums. They are VERY expensive services - and they insist on picking the dog up from your home and transporting it to an address at the destination, so that you don't go anywhere near the airport or custom officials with regard to the dogs.

It's a very confusing, and I would suggest, convoluted scenario.

But I'm surprised AA's rules seem quite a bit more lax, it would appear.

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: AirlineBrat
Posted 2010-08-04 20:59:06 and read 9285 times.

When I first read about this, the first thing that came to mind is the famous song from the Dr Demento Show....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcPvl6oEN-Y

[Edited 2010-08-04 21:04:04]

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: triple7man
Posted 2010-08-04 21:07:19 and read 9213 times.

AA has strict guidlines for travelling with pet in cargo and there are temperature restrictions. The cargo holds are pressurized and when there is a pet in cargo the pilots are notified so they turn the heat on. I flew LAX-NRT on AA with my 2 cats. It was stressful but they did fine, and after the 14 day quarantine and I brought them home, it was like they were home. I wrote a TR on it. DFW-LAX-NRT With 2 Cats (by Triple7man Jun 3 2005 in Trip Reports)

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: PHLapproach
Posted 2010-08-04 21:45:32 and read 8907 times.

I'm so thankful my carrier does not accept animals/pets. It's one less thing I to worry about and I don't have to see them getting possibly abused. I would have to always make sure they are taken care of correctly. Very sad incident. I wonder what breed they were.

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: fxramper
Posted 2010-08-05 05:22:10 and read 6687 times.

This is sad, but really stupid whoever decided it was a good idea to fly animals during the month of August. The animals sit in cages on the ramp prior loading and after unloading with index temperatures reaching well over 115F on a ramp surface. Idiot owner(s) should be prosecuted for animal abuse.

Quoting SW733 (Reply 1):
heat index near 100 even in the morning. Just my speculation...

At FX we ban lives in cargo bellies regardless of apu on ground and cooled cabins after t/o during heat months.

Quoting nycbjr (Reply 3):
I Believe most carriers ban the transport of animals in hold during the summer months for just this reason.

We do.

Quoting triple7man (Reply 22):
The cargo holds are pressurized and when there is a pet in cargo the pilots are notified so they turn the heat on.

Regardless of an apu running in a pressurized cabin the animals are left on the ramp prior to loading where temperatures go well above 100F. Not conducive for safety of a human much less a small animal that is kenneled.

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: iliribdl
Posted 2010-08-05 06:06:50 and read 6431 times.

Quoting nycbjr (Reply 3):
Surprised they even allowed them on, I Believe most carriers ban the transport of animals in hold during the summer months for just this reason.

I am surprised too, I think we don't take them on until late Sept. or early Oct.

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: Renfro747
Posted 2010-08-05 06:45:53 and read 6197 times.

Quoting Brick (Reply 14):
Early DC-9's had a "puppy snuffer" switch (to turn off the cargo heat).

Thank you for the first evil laugh of the morning!
  

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: contrails
Posted 2010-08-05 06:57:05 and read 6125 times.

I think enough has been made of this incident. The owners will sue AA, AA will settle out of court for a sizeable amount and nothing will ever be heard of it again. AA walked into this by accepting animals for shipment in 100+ degree weather.

Personally, I don't think animals should be shipped in airplanes. Shipping human passengers is cruel enough.

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: CMB320
Posted 2010-08-05 07:35:48 and read 5825 times.

I work for American and we will not accept pets if the temperature at any point along the journey is above 85 degrees... PERIOD!!!!!! When somebody comes to check in a pet, the first thing we do is check the temperature in all cities the pet will be traveling from, to, or through.

I know it sometimes upsets the pet owner, but I will turn them down regardless. If they don't care about the pets safety and welfare and want them to travel anyway, I have no issue with informing them how wrong it is that they have a pet and dont care about their safety. Fortunately for their pet, we care and will not accept it.

If the employees in TUL accepted the pet without checking the weather, or disregarding the weather, they should be terminated for not following AA policy which resulted in loss of life.

[Edited 2010-08-05 07:39:03]

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: mayor
Posted 2010-08-05 07:54:28 and read 5645 times.

DL suspends carrying animals as baggage from May thru September. As cargo they are still accepted, subject to the temperature restrictions I mentioned above. It's easier to control the transportation as cargo......i.e. heated/cooled vehicles, holding rooms, etc. Where the breakdown seems to usually occur is mistakes made by agents........even though the temp is too high, bowing down to the customer's wishes to ship the animal (I was looked on as somewhat of an ogre at SLC, for being such a stickler about the rules. Many times (especially in winter) the veterinarians are to blame, also. They usually have to provide an "acclimation" certificate for low temps (IIRC, below 25F) and sometimes feel it's not necessary and fail to provide it.




Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):
There it seems to be "cargo" dogs to be sold.

Not necessarily. True, there can be some dogs being shipped from very reputable breeders to their new owners. Sometimes they are a family pet being shipped during the baggage suspension period. Sometimes they are dogs being sent from canine rescue organizations to new owners. There are any number of reasons for cats or dogs to be shipped as cargo. BTW, you can't just bring any dog into the cabin with you. They have to be small enough to fit under the seat, so if you want to bring your large, family dog with you, you'll probably have to ship it or check it as baggage.

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: brilondon
Posted 2010-08-05 07:57:00 and read 5625 times.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 4):
My guess is a lawsuit ensues

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):
puppys

It's puppies bro...



There is more then likely a clause in the contract of carriage that would protect them from this or they would probably settle out of court.

Quoting Brick (Reply 14):
Early DC-9's had a "puppy snuffer" switch (to turn off the cargo heat).



We need those around here. Too many dogs in our neighbourhood. Lots of barking when I am trying to sleep.

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2010-08-05 07:58:08 and read 5617 times.

Quoting CMB320 (Reply 28):
I work for American and we will not accept pets if the temperature at any point along the journey is above 85 degrees... PERIOD!!!!!! When somebody comes to check in a pet, the first thing we do is check the temperature in all cities the pet will be traveling from, to, or through.
Quoting CMB320 (Reply 28):
If the employees in TUL accepted the pet without checking the weather, or disregarding the weather, they should be terminated for not following AA policy which resulted in loss of life.

Well, someone accepted the puppies for flying to ORD. Even though the flight departed TUL at 0730, the local temps were probibly at or near 85 degrees. By the time they arrived at ORD (0900), the local temps were, most likely much higher than that.

I doubt AA will, or can fire anyone for this incident. The unions will step in to protect those jobs.

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: CMB320
Posted 2010-08-05 08:05:51 and read 5558 times.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 31):
Well, someone accepted the puppies for flying to ORD. Even though the flight departed TUL at 0730, the local temps were probibly at or near 85 degrees. By the time they arrived at ORD (0900), the local temps were, most likely much higher than that.

Exactly. That's my point. We have to check the detailed weather reports and check what the temperature will be at the time the flight will land at it's destination.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 31):
I doubt AA will, or can fire anyone for this incident. The unions will step in to protect those jobs.

I agree with you... AA will probably not fire anybody. But this was a blatant disregard for a policy instituted to protect life. Policy was not adhered to, and there was loss of life. If this happened at my station, as a Supervisor, I would not hesitate to push for termination. This was completely unacceptable.

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: mayor
Posted 2010-08-05 09:36:49 and read 4820 times.

Quoting CMB320 (Reply 32):
Exactly. That's my point. We have to check the detailed weather reports and check what the temperature will be at the time the flight will land at it's destination.

At DL, the temps could not exceed the maximum at departure, transfer station (if necessary) and destination. Anywhere along the line the temp could not be exceeded. Same holds true during the winter months concerning minimum temps. Absolute minimum temp was +10F.

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: fxramper
Posted 2010-08-05 09:43:31 and read 4777 times.

Quoting contrails (Reply 27):
AA walked into this by accepting animals for shipment in 100+ degree weather.

  

Quoting CMB320 (Reply 28):

I agree.

There will be no one fired at AA. They'd have to fire the check-in agent, the gate agent, the ramp manager, the supervisor, the ramp agent on the flight, and the guy that loaded the beasts into the a/c. As stated above, there will be a cash settlement out of court.

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: mayor
Posted 2010-08-05 10:16:49 and read 4639 times.

Quoting fxramper (Reply 34):
There will be no one fired at AA. They'd have to fire the check-in agent, the gate agent, the ramp manager, the supervisor, the ramp agent on the flight, and the guy that loaded the beasts into the a/c. As stated above, there will be a cash settlement out of court.



AA may not have to settle out of court. The animal shippers are aware of the rules and they are just as guilty, in this case.

I suspect this may be one of the "puppy mill" shippers.

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: Aesma
Posted 2010-08-05 10:32:14 and read 4583 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 29):
Not necessarily. True, there can be some dogs being shipped from very reputable breeders to their new owners. Sometimes they are a family pet being shipped during the baggage suspension period. Sometimes they are dogs being sent from canine rescue organizations to new owners. There are any number of reasons for cats or dogs to be shipped as cargo. BTW, you can't just bring any dog into the cabin with you. They have to be small enough to fit under the seat, so if you want to bring your large, family dog with you, you'll probably have to ship it or check it as baggage.

There were 14 puppies, so I doubt it was family animals. Not trained dogs either.

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: mayor
Posted 2010-08-05 10:45:18 and read 4556 times.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 36):
There were 14 puppies, so I doubt it was family animals. Not trained dogs either.

Yes, but do we know if they were all from the same shipper?




I also dispute this, from the article.....



"We don't recommend pets traveling that way," Lisa Franzetta, director of communications for the ALDF, said. "The cargo areas are not temperature controlled, and especially in the winter and summer months, they can be uninhabitable."

Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local...ation--99941179.html#ixzz0vkqgTLF0

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2010-08-05 15:30:11 and read 4312 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 35):
I suspect this may be one of the "puppy mill" shippers.



Could be, but I doubt it. "Puppy Mills" usually done want to put much money into their "product". They may give you a certificate of shots, etc. but usually the puppies have not had their shots. So, I doubt they would go through the expense of shipping 14 puppies by air somewhere.

The story did not say if they were from an AKC registered breed, but they could have been. I just don't know. The sad part is 7 of the pups are dead, and the story didn't mention much about the remaining 7.

But, both the States of OK and IL can look into possible criminal charges for animal abuse/cruelty by AA, as well as the shippers.

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: pliersinsight
Posted 2010-08-05 18:27:04 and read 4183 times.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 17):
Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 4):
My guess is a lawsuit ensues

More than likely.

Eh, every time something happens you guys start lawyer bashing. Well, if some lawyer took this case they are a fool, unless these dogs were some rare breed worth millions. Dogs are property, like your car, briefcase or ipod. They are worth what you paid for them or what they cost to replace. As much as you might have your feelings hurt, the law treats a dog no differently than the bumper of a Ford Escort. There isn't anything more to go after than the actual cost or replacement cost of the dogs. Say the dogs were $500 bucks each. With what it costs to run a law office, not worth taking.

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: mayor
Posted 2010-08-05 21:03:49 and read 4046 times.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 38):
Could be, but I doubt it. "Puppy Mills" usually done want to put much money into their "product". They may give you a certificate of shots, etc. but usually the puppies have not had their shots. So, I doubt they would go through the expense of shipping 14 puppies by air somewhere.

Well, I'm not sure how it is, now, but the airlines used to handle alot of the "puppy mill" business. I can remember in the late 80s, early 90s, transferring many, puppy mill kennels off of the first inbound in the morning out of MCI to several cities.....SNA, SAN, LAX, SEA, etc.

Quoting pliersinsight (Reply 39):
There isn't anything more to go after than the actual cost or replacement cost of the dogs. Say the dogs were $500 bucks each. With what it costs to run a law office, not worth taking.

It would depend on what the shipper set as a declared value for each shipment. They can declare a value and pay 50 cents per $100 declared or they are are allowed $50 or 50 cents per pound, free, IIRC. If the shipper decided not to declare a value, he'd have a hard time in court trying to get any more than that (and maybe the shipping charges) out of the carrier.

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: Lono
Posted 2010-08-05 21:11:49 and read 4040 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 35):
I suspect this may be one of the "puppy mill" shippers.

Mayor is right. When I worked DFWFFDL puppy mills would drive from TUL, OKC on a weekly basis with semi truck full of pups flying everywhere the temps would allow. It was not uncommon to have 40 to 50 shipments with over 300 pups every week. The puppy mills would show up around 0300 with the dogs before it got too hot.

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: mayor
Posted 2010-08-05 21:22:43 and read 4021 times.

Quoting Lono (Reply 41):
Mayor is right. When I worked DFWFFDL puppy mills would drive from TUL, OKC on a weekly basis with semi truck full of pups flying everywhere the temps would allow. It was not uncommon to have 40 to 50 shipments with over 300 pups every week. The puppy mills would show up around 0300 with the dogs before it got too hot.

I would hope that the airlines wouldn't do that much "puppy mill" shipping, anymore. Just off the top of my head, before I retired in '05, I really don't think we had that many shipments of them, anymore. Of course, that could be because there might not have been as much mainline service to and from SLC to those cities where the puppy mills are prevalent as they used to be. I wouldn't have seen most of those unless they were mainline.

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: thegreatRDU
Posted 2010-08-05 21:28:45 and read 4007 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 30):
There is more then likely a clause in the contract of carriage that would protect them from this or they would probably settle out of court.

When has that stopped the average American...

Quoting pliersinsight (Reply 39):
Eh, every time something happens you guys start lawyer bashing. Well, if some lawyer took this case they are a fool, unless these dogs were some rare breed worth millions. Dogs are property, like your car, briefcase or ipod. They are worth what you paid for them or what they cost to replace. As much as you might have your feelings hurt, the law treats a dog no differently than the bumper of a Ford Escort. There isn't anything more to go after than the actual cost or replacement cost of the dogs. Say the dogs were $500 bucks each. With what it costs to run a law office, not worth taking.

America is a sue-happy country a settlement should do the trick...

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: Schweigend
Posted 2010-08-05 22:38:04 and read 3948 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 35):
I suspect this may be one of the "puppy mill" shippers.

I agree--TUL and OKC are well-known for "puppy mill" shippers. I recall that CO in past years would routinely get shipments of 8 or 12 pups on a single flight from those cities to IAH, where they'd conncet to different destinations and new owners. All of course would have needed "valid" health certificates to fly, but I say "vaild" because the mills often have apparently pencil-whipped certs of questionable provenance.

I have been told that CO does not now do a lot of business with certain pet shippers at TUL and OKC, due to various safety concerns.... The animals AA accepted may well have been sickly or moribund already, exacerbated by the heat.

Frontline employees - the ones who accept the live animals when tendered from the shipper - must be more vigilant in ensuring that all appear healthy to travel - and the Ramp must be cognizant of the max-min temp rules. This is a training issue, as a poster above said.

It is despicable how so many people today with a need for instant gratification go online, see a puppy, point and click, and voila--a puppy is delivered to them, without their ever having seen where is came from, the conditions of the breeding facility, or how the mama dog is treated (probably she is just a puppy-machine, kept constantly pregnant.)

People, please buy your new pet in person, or from the SPCA, not off the internet!

R.I.P., tiny ones!

Scottie

Edited for spelling and clarity.

[Edited 2010-08-05 22:57:24]

Topic: RE: Puppies Die On AA Flight 851
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2010-08-06 05:57:15 and read 3800 times.

Well, it seems many of you guys are right about puppies for sale from TUL. A quick search on Bing found several sites in TUL, alone. Here is an example.

http://www.k9stud.com/PuppiesByCity/tulsaOK.aspx


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