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Topic: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: ual747
Posted 2010-08-30 15:43:20 and read 14513 times.

Two Men suspected of carrying "fake" bombs in their luggage have been arrested at Schiphol after they arrived on a United Airlines flight from ORD. This should be UA908 which departed Sunday Night, August 29, 2010 and arrived AMS August 30, 2010. UA908 Should be a 777-200. Duration was 7h34m.

Here is the link to the story if you wish to read:

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/30...men-arrested-at-amsterdam-airport/

Apparently they are being charged with "preparation of a terrorist attack" by the Dutch authorities.

I'm assuming that they found these fake bombs in their luggage at customs, though I'm not sure at this point.

UAL

[Edited 2010-08-30 15:51:16]

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: alberchico
Posted 2010-08-30 15:55:46 and read 14439 times.

lets not jump to conclusions, for all we know this could all be a big mix up......

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: FLYjoe
Posted 2010-08-30 16:03:29 and read 14388 times.

I was watching CBS News and they said the bags contained bomb like setups with seven cell phones tied together, another electronic device taped a bottle, watches taped together, and $7k in cash. The interesting thing though is they said the one traveler detained in AMS enroute to Yemen, but his bag was detained in IAD, as he was originally routed via IAD. The reporter questioned why his bag was in IAD and he never touched it. It sounds like he may have been re-routed to ORD, but his bag didn't get moved.

[Edited 2010-08-30 16:08:10]

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: ual747
Posted 2010-08-30 16:11:31 and read 14332 times.

Quoting alberchico (Reply 1):
lets not jump to conclusions

True, but the fact that they are being charged hints that it might not be.

Edit: It actually looks like the two men are not related but the focus is being put on one man, Ahmed Mohammed Nasser al Soofi. It's claimed that Soofi had 7 cell phones taped to empty bottles in his luggage and watches taped to empty shampoo bottles. He was carrying $7,000 in his luggage as well.

The interesting note, and I'm not sure if the news agencies are screwing this up. But Soofi was originally bound for Yemen via IAD. I'm not sure of his origin, but he ended up changing his flight to Amsterdam and flew through ORD. His bags did not go to AMS but were confiscated in IAD while he flew ORD-AMS.

How is that possible?

Edit (Again): It looks like he originated in Birmingham, AL and flew to Chicago and that these mock devices got passed security at BHM. So this leads me to believe that he did not get rerouted mid journey. Did BHM really drop the ball here and send those bags on a flight to IAD (his original itinerary) when the ticket agent sent him to AMS via ORD?

UAL

[Edited 2010-08-30 16:18:33]

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: bhmdiversion
Posted 2010-08-30 16:35:34 and read 14200 times.

Good god... This is a total cluster F in my opinion. It seems to me that the passengers were rerouted (maybe ORD-AMS-DXB) but bags were still tagged for ORD-IAD-DXB.

BHM does not have a direct IAD flight as of now. Once I get to work tomorrow, I will see what else I can find out about this.

This is the second incident involving the Middle East countries and BHM in the past 4 years. I think I am getting a headache over this.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: ual747
Posted 2010-08-30 16:40:42 and read 14140 times.

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 4):
BHM does not have a direct IAD flight as of now.

Well perhaps the PAX was scheduled BHM-ORD-IAD-DXB? But it seems weird because if there was a rerouting, missed connection, or a fault of the airline, the obvious answer would be to get him to FRA, not AMS. There are plenty of options to FRA on UA and LH. AMS makes no sense unless he changed his destination last minute.


I'll wait for your analysis if you are allowed to provide it.

UAL

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: 777fan
Posted 2010-08-30 16:43:06 and read 14118 times.

Just posted (and recommended deletion) of a comparable thread. Here's my OP from that one:

Should be interesting to see how this pans out (if it does). Sounds like it could it have been a "dry run." It's too bad they made it through security at ORD but good to hear that U.S. and Dutch authorities are cooperating on such matters (at least one check in the system works). I suppose they couldn't/wouldn't have made the arrest without letting the individuals board the flight. Glad to hear everyone else is alright.

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...dam-after-flight-from-chicago.html

777fan

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: ual747
Posted 2010-08-30 16:52:18 and read 14048 times.

CNN is now reporting that the guy checked his luggage in at BHM for a flight to ORD. I guess he then collected his luggage and checked it in for a flight ORD-IAD-DXB, but he flew to AMS instead.

So it seems BHM noticed the strange luggage contents, but allowed it to fly, and ORD/UA double failed as they did not detect the items and allowed the bags to fly to IAD without a corresponding passenger. Then the bags were loaded on the flight to DXB, and only then did anyone notice the passenger was missing. This is getting confusing!

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/30...ested-at-amsterdam-airport/?hpt=T2

UAL

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: bhmdiversion
Posted 2010-08-30 17:53:37 and read 13785 times.

I was told that the authorities (not saying which ones) were investigating still tonight at BHM.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: ual747
Posted 2010-08-30 18:00:54 and read 13737 times.

Well, the sad part is, if this really was a test, we just showed the other side there are gaping holes in our screening process, security, and ticketing processes. Who is responsible for matching the bags with the aircraft? If it is the airline, United needs to be investigated as well.

It will be interesting to hear what Soofi's background is in the upcoming days.

UAL

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: DTWLAX
Posted 2010-08-30 18:16:32 and read 13655 times.

Why AMS again??
AMS seems to get involved somehow everytime.
Is AMS turning out to be a hub of a different kind??

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: 474218
Posted 2010-08-30 18:16:33 and read 13654 times.

Quoting alberchico (Reply 1):
lets not jump to conclusions, for all we know this could all be a big mix up......


Right, it is probably people who are upset at having a black man as President, tea party members, or people that don't like the health care bill.

I think I heard something like that several months ago when there was a big mix up in Times Square.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: kgaiflyer
Posted 2010-08-30 18:24:58 and read 13622 times.

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 4):
BHM does not have a direct IAD flight as of now

Actually, there is a no-change-of-planes one-stop, but it's WN

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: wjcandee
Posted 2010-08-30 21:51:28 and read 13159 times.

This thing reeks of "dry run".

Guy checks in at small airport, including bags containing inert containers but active timing/detonating devices (and boxcutters). Ring any bells so far?

Guy raises suspicion because of bulky clothing at checkpoint. Gets a second screening.

Meets another guy at Chicago. Is scheduled to fly to Dubai via IAD, but doesn't get on the IAD flight. Instead gets on flight with other guy, to fly to Amsterdam.

Bags are pulled d/t positive bag match requirement for international flight, but do make it to IAD.

At what point the bags; contents became known and the folks allowed to continue travelling (and why) will be interesting. It may be they wanted to let them complete the dry run to monitor it once it was clear that there was no actual danger from the pax or their contents. Still, if so, still a poor decision as the pax could be dangerous even if unarmed.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: acalikk
Posted 2010-08-30 22:28:31 and read 13062 times.

Quoting ual747 (Reply 7):
CNN is now reporting that the guy checked his luggage in at BHM for a flight to ORD. I guess he then collected his luggage and checked it in for a flight ORD-IAD-DXB, but he flew to AMS instead.

So it seems BHM noticed the strange luggage contents, but allowed it to fly, and ORD/UA double failed as they did not detect the items and allowed the bags to fly to IAD without a corresponding passenger. Then the bags were loaded on the flight to DXB, and only then did anyone notice the passenger was missing. This is getting confusing!

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/30...ested-at-amsterdam-airport/?hpt=T2

true pax had two separate reservations.. and with PPBM as long as pax boards a flight on international flight the airline can FWD bags and thats what happened at IAD.. i was working a different flight at the time when all this cheaos happened but since pax boarded AMS bound flight from ORD it was ok to load the bag.. However the officials contacted UA and we had to pull it off....
i didn't even think about A.NET i could've gotten more info..now i'm off for the next two...urrrr

Quoting ual747 (Reply 7):
and ORD/UA double failed as they did not detect the items and allowed the bags to fly to IAD without a corresponding passenge

keep in mind TSA is the one that screens all our bags and for domestic flight there's no PPBM anymore... so the bag could follow the routing until the international gateway and we follow the proper PPBM procedure.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: CoachClass
Posted 2010-08-30 22:30:04 and read 13050 times.

The one guy was going to Yemen. I think that says every thing you need to know. I think the CIA or whoever should have put a tracking device in the suitcase and followed it to where it was finally going and then send a predator to finish the job.

The news is that the authorities now have a current example what's being tried and considered...testing secondary airports-Birmingham, Alabama. Remember, PanAm 103 had explosive baggage checked in at Malta that later went thru FRA and LHR. This may have been a dry run, or, the guy thought that he was transporting a bomb and change his itinerary at the last moment to avoid being blown up.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: Schweigend
Posted 2010-08-30 23:26:59 and read 12920 times.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 13):
This thing reeks of "dry run" ....

So this dry run "failed" -- insofar as the scheme was accidentally found out. But whoever directed the attempt has gained information, which was the point, I am sure.

Apparently this was detected only due to the pax/bags not being on the same flight. A common enough occurrence.

How many other such test attempts have succeeded? We'll never know.

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 8):
I was told that the authorities (not saying which ones) were investigating still tonight at BHM.
Quoting acalikk (Reply 14):
keep in mind TSA is the one that screens all our bags

Yes, evidently nine years after 9/11 it is still possible for terrorists to do their "work" by boarding a flight at a minor spoke airport. Very disappointing.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: Severnaya
Posted 2010-08-31 00:24:24 and read 12621 times.

Quoting ual747 (Reply 5):
There are plenty of options to FRA on UA and LH. AMS makes no sense unless he changed his destination last minute.

That depends, UA flights to AMS connect to the LH AMS-FRA, correct? And as it all was arranged last-minute chances were the IAD-FRA were full, especially now during European summer holidays, and perhaps in the US as well.

Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 10):
Why AMS again??
AMS seems to get involved somehow everytime.
Is AMS turning out to be a hub of a different kind??

Because it's a large USA-Middle East transfer hub?
Let's turn the question, why again the USA related? All these cheesy things originate in the USA or have them as destination.....Something to think about maybe for the USA and some of their citizens, before blaming other airports/countries.

Quoting CoachClass (Reply 15):
The one guy was going to Yemen. I think that says every thing you need to know.

Don't forget the 99.9% innocent people that travel to Yemen.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: CrimsonNL
Posted 2010-08-31 00:54:32 and read 12394 times.

Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 10):
Why AMS again??
AMS seems to get involved somehow everytime.
Is AMS turning out to be a hub of a different kind??


He was arrested at AMS by request of American authorities, who let him board the plane in the first place. So AMS is only honoring the request and so far it seems that they are not responsible for the screwup.

Martijn

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: jpiddink
Posted 2010-08-31 01:49:37 and read 12003 times.

Dutch news (nu.nl) reports that both persons were scheduled to fly Chicago - Washington - AMS, but upon arrival in Chicago changed for a direct Chicago - AMS. The bags however continued to/through Washington. Then the cheesy part of the news: when they (whoever 'they' may be) found out, the aircraft with the bags on board was ordered to return to Chicago...

Now, either one decides it's ok to let the bags travel a different itinerary to AMS or it isn't, but deciding it's not ok while the flight is in mid-air sounds like a nono to me.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: petertenthije
Posted 2010-08-31 02:08:28 and read 11870 times.

There seems to be some confusion about the flights. According to Spitsnieuws.nl (which is not that reliable to be honest) there where two passengers.

Ahmed Mohamed Nasser al Soofi from Detroit was scheduled to fly from Birmingham Alabama to ORD and onwards to AMS. Don't ask me how, but his bags where supposed to fly from ORD not to AMS but to Dubai and from there to Yemen. It is not quite clear to me where Dulles fits in, it's not mentioned on the Dutch site. Perhaps that was a transfer point for the luggage?

original itinerary
Ahmed Mohamed Nasser al Soofi: BHM - ORD - IAD - (AMS?) - DXB - Yemen
Ahmed Mohamed Nasser al Soofi's lugage: BHM - ORD - IAD - (AMS?) - DXB - Yemen

changed itinerary
Ahmed Mohamed Nasser al Soofi: BHM - ORD - AMS - (DXB - Yemen?)
Ahmed Mohamed Nasser al Soofi's lugage: BHM - ORD - IAD - (AMS?) - DXB - Yemen


No details where released for the second traveller, Hezem al Murisi.

Al Soofi was given a second check at BHM because he was over-dressed. There officials found he carried 7000$ in cash. The officials also found the one cellphone taped to an empty bottle, as well as three loose cellphones and three knives. Because no explosives where found BHM officials let them continue.

In Chicago border police found out that the luggage was routed to Yemen instead of to AMS. That´s when they gave the luggage another safety check.

I also read somewhere, but can´t recall the source, that air marshalls where present on the AMS flight.


edited to add:
At 12:30 CET Schiphol will hold a press conference. That's a little over an hour from now.

Edit 2:
Updated with some more details from NOS.nl, a more reliable source.

[Edited 2010-08-31 02:18:20]

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: ltbewr
Posted 2010-08-31 03:30:36 and read 11329 times.

Maybe the TSA agents at BHM were afraid of stopping them because they would look like they were profiling. Let us also not forget that the 9/11 terrorists did a number of 'dry runs' at least as to the persons, some left from a secondary airport (Portland, Maine then BOS). I hope this causes a massive crackdown of securithy all over, with an accent on smaller/secondary airports, to make agents realize that any suspisious luggage must be kept off. The agents and their superiors who were supposed to do their job in BHM should not only be fired, but even tried and sent to jail for their failures to do thier job.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: tharanga
Posted 2010-08-31 04:22:23 and read 10906 times.

Quoting 474218 (Reply 11):

I think I heard something like that several months ago when there was a big mix up in Times Square.

Sarcasm is misplaced. Even if this was a real thing, there are routinely mixups and false alarms, that turn out to be absolutely nothing. Seems like a monthly occurrence. So anybody is justified in wanting to wait for the correct details to emerge from a story, especially when the initial reporting is confused and contradictory.

Quoting Schweigend (Reply 16):
But whoever directed the attempt has gained information, which was the point, I am sure.

But the TSA has also gained information. And since our authorities and the TSA (and to be honest, most of our population, it seems) only seem to react against what just happened, instead of thinking about what could happen, well, it can be a learning experience.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: soon7x7
Posted 2010-08-31 05:08:18 and read 10527 times.

Quoting tharanga (Reply 23):
well, it can be a learning experience.


Wouldn't you agree that at this juncture traveling with "box cutters" should raise suspicion, enough to be acted upon with acute authority?...Can you give me one good reason why anyone needs to travel with box cutters? The cell phones I can get in a stretch as many people coming to the states purchase lots of items in bulk but in this situation...me thinks I hear, see...a quacking duck.   

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: tharanga
Posted 2010-08-31 05:17:46 and read 10682 times.

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 24):
Wouldn't you agree that at this juncture traveling with "box cutters" should raise suspicion, enough to be acted upon with acute authority?...Can you give me one good reason why anyone needs to travel with box cutters?

per CNN (as of right now, at least), there were box cutters in the checked bags. I don't see a problem with that. You are allowed to have knives and other sharp objects in your checked bags. So no, it should not raise suspicion.

It's the other items allegedly in the checked bags that are of more interest. I wonder what they looked like in the screening machines. Having electronic gadgets wrapped around bottles sounds like an obvious makeshift device, but are the bottles visible as such in the image the screeners see?

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: slz396
Posted 2010-08-31 05:18:03 and read 10786 times.

Quoting CoachClass (Reply 15):
The one guy was going to Yemen. I think that says every thing you need to know

In my country Yemen is a tourist destination, visited by those who are looking to go off the beaten track.
Not everybody likes to spend his holidays in an all-in resort in the Dominican Republic, you know?

http://wereldreizen.jetair.be/fr/Afrique-Nord-Moyen-Orient
As you can see from the logo on the site, Yemen is offered as a tourist destination not by some small alternative tour operators, but by a major international package holiday group! And yes, Syria, Lybia and others are visited by European tourists too...

Anyway, seems to me the US security services have massively failed again: it's a bit late to arrest suspected terrorists flying transatlantic AFTER their flight, don't you think? Sounds to me we were just lucky once again...

[Edited 2010-08-31 05:23:48]

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: offloaded
Posted 2010-08-31 05:29:11 and read 10834 times.

Quoting ual747 (Reply 3):
It's claimed that Soofi had 7 cell phones taped to empty bottles in his luggage and watches taped to empty shampoo bottles

Ok, so it was a promotion at Walmart. Buy a bottle of pop and get a free cell phone. He got thirsty, drank the pop, but couldn't get the phones off because the tape was too strong. Same story on the watches. Eventually he realised that the only way he was going to get the tape of was by cutting it off, so he bought a box cutter. Nothing dangerous was being carried, and thus passed through luggage x-ray without a problem.

Of course my Walmart theory is probably complete BS, but I still think we need a lot more information about this whole thing.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: soon7x7
Posted 2010-08-31 05:33:37 and read 10800 times.

Quoting tharanga (Reply 25):


Your response doesn't answer my question though...why does anyone have to travel with box cutters?...especially in this day in age. I'm not saying it is illegal, just why does one have to when they are easily obtained at all destinations all over the world. It's not like the US has a cornered market on box cutters.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: contrails
Posted 2010-08-31 05:34:13 and read 10788 times.

Quoting alberchico (Reply 1):
lets not jump to conclusions, for all we know this could all be a big mix up......

Possibly, but why would anyone attach a cell phone to a bottle of Pepto-Bismol and wrap watches around a bottle of shampoo? That makes me very suspicious. I have to conclude that this could have indeed been a dry run for a future attack.

The question I have is why weren't they stopped in the US??? Come on, TSA, get with it!!! If the Dutch thought it was suspicious why didn't you???

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: tharanga
Posted 2010-08-31 05:40:51 and read 10712 times.

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 28):
Your response doesn't answer my question though...why does anyone have to travel with box cutters?...especially in this day in age. I'm not saying it is illegal, just why does one have to when they are easily obtained at all destinations all over the world. It's not like the US has a cornered market on box cutters.

Why do people travel with razors, sewing kit scissors, or swiss army knives? forget sharp objects; why do people travel with anything at all, that you can relatively easily get another of, wherever you are going?

so long as the sharp objects are in the checked bags, it doesn't matter. heck, you can travel with an unloaded gun in your checked bag, provided you declare it. So who are you to question why, if these items are kept in a place where they can pose no threat?

[Edited 2010-08-31 05:43:19]

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: soon7x7
Posted 2010-08-31 05:43:28 and read 10711 times.

Quoting contrails (Reply 29):
If the Dutch thought it was suspicious why didn't you???


PC sensitivities perhaps?...the achilles heal of Homeland Security. Until they broach this pediment, I don't see any use for the TSA and the expense they impose. (Box cutters/cell phones/Yemen) Bingo!,...in my world 2+2 still equals 4.   

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: dalce
Posted 2010-08-31 05:58:18 and read 10515 times.

Quoting CoachClass (Reply 15):
The one guy was going to Yemen. I think that says every thing you need to know. I think the CIA or whoever should have put a tracking device in the suitcase and followed it to where it was finally going and then send a predator to finish the job.

I am SO happy that you are not the president of the USA........ Obviously you would blow up all aircraft heading for Yemen, since according your vision all people on board MUST be potential terrorists......
Fortunately people making decisions have a tad more brains in there skull.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: SeeTheWorld
Posted 2010-08-31 06:15:57 and read 10348 times.

Cool it on the political stuff people ... this is serious s**t ... profiling is not the answer, but either is letting people fly when there are obvious signs something might be up ... that's the difference between profile and identifying several red flags, none of which on their own may be a huge problem, but when put together should alarm the hell out of the TSA ... Let's see where this goes ...

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: tharanga
Posted 2010-08-31 06:20:54 and read 10242 times.

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 38):
but either is letting people fly when there are obvious signs something might be up

If the facts currently circulating are true, then absolutely.

Beyond what the screeners saw or didn't see during checked bag screening, there is also the question of having the checked bags flying without the passenger (if that indeed happened). This is apparently possible on domestic flights. Is there any good reason for that, beyond the airlines complaining about it being hard to pull bags?

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: SeeTheWorld
Posted 2010-08-31 06:30:43 and read 10120 times.

Quoting tharanga (Reply 39):
If the facts currently circulating are true, then absolutely.

I agree, if the facts turn out to basically be true, then a bunch of people are not doing their jobs correctly...

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: fxramper
Posted 2010-08-31 06:48:47 and read 9920 times.

Another rehearsal flight?

Nine kicked off TPA flight

Quoting petertenthije (Reply 20):

Confusion? They were testing the water.

TSA fail

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: tharanga
Posted 2010-08-31 06:53:17 and read 9845 times.

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 40):
I agree, if the facts turn out to basically be true, then a bunch of people are not doing their jobs correctly...

Which isn't the least bit surprising to anybody. The TSA does not publish the results of their self-tests, but according to the leaks, the screeners are pretty awful at detecting simulated bombs, like the items being described in the news reports here.

But instead of just bemoaning the TSA and wringing the hands, what can be done to improve the situation? When you come down off the soapbox, it's actually not a very fun job if you think about it. You're looking for a needle in a haystack, and people get mad if you look too long at the hay.

That, and I'm still curious what the rationale is for pulling bags on intl flights, but not domestic.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: SeeTheWorld
Posted 2010-08-31 07:06:48 and read 9668 times.

Quoting tharanga (Reply 43):
Which isn't the least bit surprising to anybody. The TSA does not publish the results of their self-tests, but according to the leaks, the screeners are pretty awful at detecting simulated bombs, like the items being described in the news reports here.

But instead of just bemoaning the TSA and wringing the hands, what can be done to improve the situation? When you come down off the soapbox, it's actually not a very fun job if you think about it. You're looking for a needle in a haystack, and people get mad if you look too long at the hay.

That, and I'm still curious what the rationale is for pulling bags on intl flights, but not domestic.

I agree, and if my job was to find ways to make TSA better, I might have some suggestions ... But I'm not the expert .. However, I know that if your main technique is profiling, then your techniques don't rise to the level they should ... chasing your tail is not going to solve this complex issue.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2010-08-31 07:18:03 and read 9558 times.

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 28):
Your response doesn't answer my question though...why does anyone have to travel with box cutters?

It's a slippery slope when you start to ask "why" would anyone want to travel with anything. Pretty soon, nobody can travel with anything.

Box cutters (more commonly called utility knives) aren't weapons, they're tools. Like many tools, they can be used as a weapon if you decide to use them that way, but this is checked luggage. You may as well ask why anyone would travel with a hand saw or a screwdriver. Maybe their mother's wardrobe needs fixing and they don't want to spend $10 on a new screwdriver when they get to their destination - who the hell knows?

Note that I'm not saying this guy is innocent, but I am saying looking at checked luggage and saying "why would anyone travel with that?" is a dangerous game to be playing.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: CoachClass
Posted 2010-08-31 09:53:03 and read 7897 times.

Quoting dalce (Reply 33):
I am SO happy that you are not the president of the USA........ Obviously you would blow up all aircraft heading for Yemen, since according your vision all people on board MUST be potential terrorists......
Fortunately people making decisions have a tad more brains in there skull.



Yemen is a country with Al Queda working in it. Remember the USS Cole and other ships were attacked there. You can't paint everybody with a broad brush but the circumstances here make me think he was not an innocent traveler.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: tharanga
Posted 2010-08-31 10:05:53 and read 7741 times.

Quoting CoachClass (Reply 41):
but the circumstances here make me think he was not an innocent traveler.

Still too early to tell. So much of this story still doesn't make sense, as reports are still contradictory or incomplete. It could have been a dry run, and yet, it easily could have been absolutely nothing. Or maybe one guy was up to something, and the other guy wasn't.

""This looks like nothing," said one official, saying both men missed flights in Chicago due to a gate change and their airline rebooked them onto the same plane. "
from CNN.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe....airport.arrests/index.html?hpt=T2

If it turns out there was a good reason for them to have missed their original flight from ORD (to IAD, I guess?), that makes the pax/luggage flight mismatch look rather like an accident, instead of something planned. But if one or both pax had two separate itineraries for going into and leaving ORD on UA, that itself is sort of weird.

Did the luggage actually make it to IAD? Some reports speak of a plane being called back to the gate to have the bags pulled, but it isn't clear whether this was in ORD or IAD.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: MadameConcorde
Posted 2010-08-31 10:48:39 and read 7248 times.

Quoting ual747 (Thread starter):
Apparently they are being charged with "preparation of a terrorist attack"

In their luggage:
"bulky clothes, a cell phone taped to a Pepto-Bismol bottle, three cell phones taped together, several watches taped together, a box cutter and three large knives, and $7,000 in cash"

a cell phone taped to a Pepto-Bismol bottle?
three cell phones taped together?
several watches taped together?

very weird... is this occult? LOL

Nothing suspeced by the luggage screeners?
How did these two ever get allowed on board the flight?

unless it's all fabricated?

   

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: mtnwest1979
Posted 2010-08-31 11:00:21 and read 7064 times.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 43):
Nothing suspeced by the luggage screeners?
How did these two ever get allowed on board the flight

Well it is all 'circumstantial' evidence lol. Since nothing set off any 'explosive' machines, guess it was all A-OK lol.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: tharanga
Posted 2010-08-31 11:00:40 and read 7067 times.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 43):
Nothing suspeced by the luggage screeners?
How did these two ever get allowed on board the flight?

Something was indeed suspected by the luggage screeners. The screeners in BHM are the ones who found it, apparently. They let it go on, as there was no actual bomb there, which appears true. But they found it weird enough that they sent the information into somewhere, which is presumably why the Dutch knew to detain the guy(s) for questioning upon arrival.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: fca767
Posted 2010-08-31 11:05:54 and read 7018 times.

Quoting tharanga (Reply 45):
Something was indeed suspected by the luggage screeners. The screeners in BHM are the ones who found it, apparently. They let it go on, as there was no actual bomb there, which appears true. But they found it weird enough that they sent the information into somewhere, which is presumably why the Dutch knew to detain the guy(s) for questioning upon arrival.

I hope this is right...I used to remember (Not sure if still) that luggage was opened by TSA all the time at checkin.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: MadameConcorde
Posted 2010-08-31 11:07:43 and read 7005 times.

Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab was arrested after igniting his underwear on board Northwest Airlines Flight 253 en route from Amsterdam to Detroit... how the heck did he get on board if he had explosive taped on him?

sound familiar?
huh... Amsterdam....
Only this time it's a United flight from Chicago

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: yeogeo
Posted 2010-08-31 11:08:20 and read 6959 times.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 43):

three cell phones taped together?
several watches taped together?
very weird... is this occult? LOL

None of these things in themselves are dangerous in and of themselves and the Departement of Homeland Security is quoted as saying so.

Apparently binding gifts together is a recognizable cultural aspect of the Yemani; see quote from following link:
"...his cousin had most likely been trying to take medication and phones back to his family, and that it was common to bind together items meant for the same recipient. “This is our culture,” he said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/01/world/europe/01plane.html

yeo

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: fca767
Posted 2010-08-31 11:16:52 and read 6859 times.

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 48):
Apparently binding gifts together is a recognizable cultural aspect of the Yemani

3 Cell phones to one recipient?

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: flyingalex
Posted 2010-08-31 11:19:39 and read 6839 times.

Quoting tharanga (Reply 42):
""This looks like nothing," said one official, saying both men missed flights in Chicago due to a gate change and their airline rebooked them onto the same plane. "
from CNN.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe....airport.arrests/index.html?hpt=T2

Thank you for that link. Now we know for sure that both passengers were rebooked off their original itineraries by United.

I still haven't seen it mentioned, but the media seems to assume that they were actually planning to go to Amsterdam. I highly doubt that - I think they were scheduled to be in transit only.


[Speculation on my part]

As others have said upthread, re-routing them via AMS seems a little odd - why not FRA or MUC or some other Star Alliance hub?

My guess is they were re-routed via AMS because that's where there were seats available - it's high season for trans-Atlantic travel right now, and flights from UA hubs to LH hubs are absolutely packed at the moment. AMS is a spoke for Star Alliance, so loads were probably a little softer on that flight, allowing these two pax to rebooked onto it. Also, UA still has a good working relationship with Emirates who have recently started DXB-AMS, a flight which still has somewhat soft loads. When flights are full and you have IRROPS, you have to start getting creative. I've been rebooked on some fairly odd routings simply because that was all there was left.

I'd therefore bet good money that their new itinerary was ORD-AMS-DXB-SAH instead of the missed ORD-IAD-DXB-SAH.

Oh, and it seems a re-routing direct to Sana'a via FRA would not have been possible anyway, even if seats had been available on the trans-Atlantic flights - LH's FRA-JED-SAH service does not operate on Mondays (it's four weekly, TuThSaSu).

[/Speculation on my part]

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: MadameConcorde
Posted 2010-08-31 11:20:06 and read 6843 times.

The Yemen terror warning from about a week or so ago:

CIA sees increased threat from al-Qaeda in Yemen-
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2010/08/24/AR2010082406553.html

 

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: tharanga
Posted 2010-08-31 11:21:56 and read 6831 times.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 47):
Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab was arrested after igniting his underwear on board Northwest Airlines Flight 253 en route from Amsterdam to Detroit... how the heck did he get on board if he had explosive taped on him?

sound familiar?
huh... Amsterdam....
Only this time it's a United flight from Chicago

I don't know what you're trying to say.

1. There was no explosive here.
2. Amsterdam seems to be here only as a coincidence. Reports so far, for whatever they are worth, are that they were re-booked to AMS by UA. And they wouldn't have been transiting through AMS with any suspicious anything; the Dutch say there's nothing weird in their cabin luggage, which made it to AMS with them.


Quoting yeogeo (Reply 48):
Apparently binding gifts together is a recognizable cultural aspect of the Yemani;


I saw that. I don't know if it's culture or not, but it's reasonable to group together gifts for the same person. But if these were gifts, then one would wonder why the medicine (or shampoo) bottles were empty. What kind of gift is an empty bottle? Maybe the reports of them being empty were wrong? Or, there is still something here that doesn't make sense.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: yeogeo
Posted 2010-08-31 11:22:12 and read 6801 times.

Quoting fca767 (Reply 49):
3 Cell phones to one recipient?

And why not? Certainly not unusual in a large European or American family!

yeo

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: JBirdAV8r
Posted 2010-08-31 11:31:24 and read 6745 times.

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 53):
And why not? Certainly not unusual in a large European or American family!

yeo

Wonder if the phones were CDMA or GSM. If purchased in America, there's a good chance they'd be CDMA and thus useless in Yemen and most other places.

Makes ya think...

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: tharanga
Posted 2010-08-31 11:35:00 and read 6718 times.

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 50):
[Speculation on my part]

Based on what little we know, I would tend to agree that AMS was purely the result of UA customer service reps figuring out some way to get them on their way. Even if they were practising to see if they could get their bags onto one flight, but take another, I don't see how transiting through AMS would have made any difference to that plan, as opposed to FRA or anywhere else.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 51):
The Yemen terror warning from about a week or so ago:

Your point? Please engage in the details of this case, not the overall situation of Yemen.

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 53):

And why not? Certainly not unusual in a large European or American family!

Could also be a customs-evading black market thing.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: flyingalex
Posted 2010-08-31 11:44:36 and read 6626 times.

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 54):
Wonder if the phones were CDMA or GSM. If purchased in America, there's a good chance they'd be CDMA and thus useless in Yemen and most other places.

Makes ya think...

Not exactly. Verizon and Sprint Nextel are CDMA network operators, but both AT&T and T-Mobile USA operate GSM networks, and you can easily buy GSM phones in the States. You can be sure that someone wanting to export the phones would have looked into getting the right ones.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: tharanga
Posted 2010-08-31 11:48:47 and read 6567 times.

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 56):
You can be sure that someone wanting to export the phones would have looked into getting the right ones.

Unless they weren't actually exporting phones, but experimenting with phones as bomb triggers. This is the sort of thing I'm sure the investigators will cover. We just need some patience, for more complete information to come out.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: flyingalex
Posted 2010-08-31 12:01:57 and read 6442 times.

Quoting tharanga (Reply 57):

Unless they weren't actually exporting phones, but experimenting with phones as bomb triggers. This is the sort of thing I'm sure the investigators will cover. We just need some patience, for more complete information to come out.

Oh, I totally agree, but so far the trend has been that each bit of new information that has been released strengthens the case that this was a harmless misunderstanding.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: bikerthai
Posted 2010-08-31 12:07:13 and read 6401 times.

As a person who have relatives in the "Third World" I can provide some first hand knowledge on some of the items in questions:

Cell phones: Cell phones, even used ones, are prized in the third world. I get a free upgrade every few years and will send the old ones back to the "old country" to get a second life. Most modern phones are compatible with systems around the world, or can be made so with some back shop tampering. Why wrapped around a bottle? I have no clue.

Watches: Same as cell phones. Many watches strapped around a bottle is a convenient way to package them. Easier than wearing them on your arm like a street salesman. Psst . . . want to buy a Rolex?

Knives and Box Cutters: Depending on the brands, good knives are hard to find in the "Third World". Cheap Chinese made product are probably available in Yemen, but the "Good Quality" Chinese product or even American or Western made tools are prized. Same thing can probably go with box cutter or a good Craftsman chisel.

This autumn we may be sending diapers back for a new born relative. Why send diapers back? The diapers available there are so crappy and good diapers help prevent diaper rash . . . Of course, they wouldn't hold you up for carrying a box of diapers.

bikerthai

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: acalikk
Posted 2010-08-31 12:32:49 and read 6084 times.

Quoting fxramper (Reply 37):


all that was a complete B.S .... first, it happened to be on the same day with the Dubai incident... DXB flight was at C2 AT IAD and TPA was at C-14 during the 10pm bank when all this happened..
second, those men the passengers mentioning were not just all men it included a family with kids and wife of the guy in the middle of the incident.
third, which to me was the most embarrassing part was the guy in the middle of all this was a Pakistani decent who works for the pentagon. he does some sort of training.. at the end the Pakistani ambassador was involved on this demanding an appoligy from UAL....
last, Sunday night was one of those days filled with a bunch of dramas...

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: brilondon
Posted 2010-08-31 12:47:47 and read 5938 times.

Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 10):
Is AMS turning out to be a hub of a different kind??



Not really as AMS is a major hub for the mid-east.

Quoting CoachClass (Reply 15):
The one guy was going to Yemen. I think that says every thing you need to know. I think the CIA or whoever should have put a tracking device in the suitcase and followed it to where it was finally going and then send a predator to finish the job.



Unless you have probable cause this is illegal. Plus, if the luggage causes suspicion, why is the pax not causing suspicion?

Quoting Severnaya (Reply 17):
Let's turn the question, why again the USA related? All these cheesy things originate in the USA or have them as destination.....Something to think about maybe for the USA and some of their citizens, before blaming other airports/countries.



The U.S. seems to be a favourite target all the time because of their attitude towards other countries. Look what is happening in New York with the Mosque that is being planned for near the World Trade Center and how it is causing problems. The Americans don't seem to have much tolerance for being different. If you are not American, they seem to want to make your life miserable.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: JBirdAV8r
Posted 2010-08-31 13:03:20 and read 5808 times.

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 54):
Not exactly. Verizon and Sprint Nextel are CDMA network operators, but both AT&T and T-Mobile USA operate GSM networks, and you can easily buy GSM phones in the States. You can be sure that someone wanting to export the phones would have looked into getting the right ones.

I think you missed my point. If they're CDMA phones (doesn't say), then right away you know the whole "gift" story is phony, don't you?

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: Mir
Posted 2010-08-31 13:12:40 and read 5707 times.

It's interesting how in another thread about TSA searching someone's checkbook in PHL, some argued that the TSA's job is only to prevent dangerous items from being transported on airplanes, not to prevent crimes. It would appear that that was done in this case - the screeners at BHM were suspicious (which they had right to be), inspected the luggage (which they were right to do), found that there was nothing dangerous in it, and let it go. Somewhere down the line things happened that attracted attention, but overall the system worked - the aircraft were never in any danger. That doesn't, of course, address the issue of whether these people should have been watched more closely, but that's not a TSA issue.

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 21):
These clowns should never have been airborne in the first place. But that would have been profiling.
Quoting ltbewr (Reply 22):
Maybe the TSA agents at BHM were afraid of stopping them because they would look like they were profiling.

Ok, quick lesson on profiling: stopping someone who appears to have a bomb in their luggage is NOT profiling. Rather, it's security doing their job. Stopping someone because they are Muslim, on the other hand, is profiling. I expect the TSA and its personnel to know the difference.

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 52):
Wonder if the phones were CDMA or GSM. If purchased in America, there's a good chance they'd be CDMA and thus useless in Yemen and most other places.

Makes ya think...

GSM phones are easily obtainable in the US - if you have T-Mobile or AT&T as your provider, you've got one.

-Mir

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: flyingalex
Posted 2010-08-31 13:12:51 and read 5713 times.

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 60):
I think you missed my point. If they're CDMA phones (doesn't say), then right away you know the whole "gift" story is phony, don't you?

Not really. It just tells you that the guy is carrying CDMA phones.

Then you still have two possibilities:

1. He didn't know that there are different types of network standards and assumed the phones would work back home. As I posted earlier, this is something that most people who have any idea of how cell phones work would think to check, but it's also a sad truth that not everyone is tech-savvy. The poor guy didn't do his research and ends up carting a load of useless junk to Yemen thinking he's doing his family a favour.

2. He's a sinister bogeyman and he's out to get us all.

I really wouldn't get too hung up on the phones (pardon the pun).

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: aztec01
Posted 2010-08-31 13:27:14 and read 5567 times.

@SeeTheWorld: " ... profiling is not the answer."

How do we know, have we tried it yet?

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2010-08-31 13:31:33 and read 5541 times.

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 52):
Wonder if the phones were CDMA or GSM. If purchased in America, there's a good chance they'd be CDMA and thus useless in Yemen and most other places.

And there's just as good a chance they're GSM - or even CDMA dual mode "world" phones - and thus perfectly useful in Yemen. Two of the "big four" US carriers are CDMA, the other two are GSM.

You've got a Fox News mentality. Everything sounds suspicious even when there's a perfectly rational explanation. It's good when talking security to have some healthy critical thinking skills, but that doesn't mean automatically thinking the more suspicious of two possible explanations is always the correct one - usually, it's the opposite. You're making the assumption that he *is* a terrorist and then working your way backwards to try to fit the evidence to that conclusion; this is not the right way to think about these things.

Anyway, it's looking more and more like this was all a big nothing, as these things usually (no, not always) are. From the NY Times:

“You go into these situations with an open mind, but the facts never really supported a suspicion of terrorism,” said one law enforcement official, speaking of the continuing investigation on condition of anonymity. He said news accounts of the detentions, set off by an initial report by ABC News on Monday night, had made a sensation of what was really routine checking by counterterrorism investigators.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: tharanga
Posted 2010-08-31 14:21:40 and read 5156 times.

Somebody took video of them being taken off the plane.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11134521

Too bad for the people who wanted to jump to conclusions, but it's still unclear that anything wrong actually happened here.

As of the time of this report, the item of most interest to me is one cell phone taped to a bottle of Pepto-Bismol. Besides that, some watches taped to each other, and some phones taped to each other. And some knives.

If that's true, then I think the only item remotely resembling a mock-bomb is the cell phone and the bottle. If it's as simple as both items were going to be given to the same person, then this becomes much ado about nothing. But I'm curious whether there was actually any Pepto-Bismol in the bottle; early reports said the bottle was empty, which would make it an odd gift.

I'm also still curious why at least one guy was traveling on multiple itineraries, such that he had to re-check his bags at ORD. Mind you, that doesn't make it suspicious; in fact, it makes it even harder to do a "dry run" because you and your checked bags have to go through security again. You might as well have just started at ORD, if you wanted to do some crime. But it's still odd.

And the other missing bit of info is why they didn't take the flight they were scheduled for. Did they simply miss it because they didn't catch onto a gate change announcement, as the earlier CNN report suggested? Did they go to a service desk and ask for a different itinerary for some other reason? Did they intentionally miss it? I guess this is the other key.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: bikerthai
Posted 2010-08-31 14:44:24 and read 4970 times.

Quoting tharanga (Reply 65):
If it's as simple as both items were going to be given to the same person, then this becomes much ado about nothing.

Nothing like having relatives fighting over gifts if they are not properly labeled or taped together  
Quoting tharanga (Reply 65):
the bottle was empty, which would make it an odd gift.

I brought back an empty glass coke bottle as a souvenir . . . pesto would be odd.

Quoting tharanga (Reply 65):
I'm also still curious why at least one guy was traveling on multiple itineraries, such that he had to re-check his bags at ORD.

My experience was that I have to re-check baggage transferring from a domestic to an international flight (maybe because of different airlines involved), and vice-a-verse (for customs). I can not remember if it was on the same itinerary (probably was). And sometimes traveling on different itinerary if booked by different methods can save you money. . . Things may have changed. . .

I feel sorry for folks who have to make one or two connection even before they get to their international leg  

bikerthai

[Edited 2010-08-31 14:44:47]

[Edited 2010-08-31 14:46:11]

[Edited 2010-08-31 14:47:18]

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: flyingalex
Posted 2010-08-31 14:51:03 and read 4903 times.

Quoting tharanga (Reply 65):

I'm also still curious why at least one guy was traveling on multiple itineraries, such that he had to re-check his bags at ORD. Mind you, that doesn't make it suspicious; in fact, it makes it even harder to do a "dry run" because you and your checked bags have to go through security again. You might as well have just started at ORD, if you wanted to do some crime. But it's still odd.

Putting two itineraries end-to-end can sometimes be cheaper if you're flying from somewhere in the boonies, i.e. BHM-ORD-IAD-DXB-SAH could have been significantly more expensive than BHM-ORD on Ticket 1, then ORD-IAD-DXB-SAH on Ticket 2.

Here in Europe you often get good airfare deals out of London, so many people buy a ticket from there and then a separate connecting flight to the UK. You can often save hundreds of $/£/€ this way.

Certainly nothing unusual or suspicious about it.

[Edited 2010-08-31 14:52:03]

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: tharanga
Posted 2010-08-31 15:00:57 and read 4843 times.

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 67):
Putting two itineraries end-to-end can sometimes be cheaper if you're flying from somewhere in the boonies, i.e. BHM-ORD-IAD-DXB-SAH could have been significantly more expensive than BHM-ORD on Ticket 1, then ORD-IAD-DXB-SAH on Ticket 2.

Here in Europe you often get good airfare deals out of London, so many people buy a ticket from there and then a separate connecting flight to the UK. You can often save hundreds of $/£/€ this way.

Certainly nothing unusual or suspicious about it.

Yeah, I guess that's true. Even on the same airline. It's the opposite side of the situation where a ticket A-B-C is sometimes cheaper than just a ticket from A-B. A-C and A-B are priced as different markets.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: bhmdiversion
Posted 2010-08-31 15:59:59 and read 4515 times.

Ok... sorry I couldnt post at work. Apparently, the TSA screeners were looking at the xrays of the bags and noticed some irregularities with this passengers bags. TSA protocol is to notify local Management on what they have found. TSA Management deemed (after intense investigation - from what I have heard) that the bags were ok to fly. If there were box cutters (not deemed existent from my sources) this would have been more of a red flag to appear.

Sometime during the flight from BHM to ORD their reservation was changed. PPBM rules that the bags could not go beyond what they traveled.

THere is no confirmation that the bags were rerouted in BHM, could of happened in ORD???

The word on the street was that the passenger in question did not know the other passenger - but this is still being investigated.

More when I hear anything...

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2010-08-31 16:12:45 and read 4472 times.

Quoting ual747 (Reply 9):
Who is responsible for matching the bags with the aircraft?

The airline.

Quoting Schweigend (Reply 16):
So this dry run "failed"

Dry runs never fail. Even if you're caught, you've learned something.

Quoting petertenthije (Reply 20):
that air marshalls where present on the AMS flight.

Air Marshals can do nothing when a bomb is stored in the cargo hold.

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 69):
If there were box cutters (not deemed existent from my sources) this would have been more of a red flag to appear.

Box cutters in checked luggage wouldn't cause anyone to bat an eye.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: LJ
Posted 2010-09-01 09:42:14 and read 4102 times.

Dutch media report that both men have been released. Apparantly they couldn't find any evidence of a link to a crime

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: tharanga
Posted 2010-09-01 10:20:51 and read 4062 times.

Quoting LJ (Reply 71):
Dutch media report that both men have been released. Apparantly they couldn't find any evidence of a link to a crime

  

So much for all the anetters who jump to conclusions, belittle others who think it's wise to wait for the facts to come out, and even advise executing people without any investigation or due process.

The sad thing is, basically the same thing will continue happening, several times a year. It's never big news when the story fizzles out, so people never learn the lesson of patience.

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: oldeuropean
Posted 2010-09-01 10:32:46 and read 4033 times.

Quoting tharanga (Reply 72):
So much for all the anetters who jump to conclusions, belittle others who think it's wise to wait for the facts to come out, and even advise executing people without any investigation or due process.

The sad thing is, basically the same thing will continue happening, several times a year. It's never big news when the story fizzles out, so people never learn the lesson of patience.

Oh yes, especially people from the kingdom of paranoia, who have their own solutions for imagined threats.

Quoting CoachClass (Reply 15):
I think the CIA or whoever should have put a tracking device in the suitcase and followed it to where it was finally going and then send a predator to finish the job.



Yeah, why don't they nuke the whole Yemen?  

  

Axel

Topic: RE: Two Men Arrested After United Flight To AMS
Username: quiet1
Posted 2010-09-01 22:40:10 and read 3805 times.

My two-cent impression is that this was a test run. The US security measures worked pretty much as they should. (A gaping hole in the system is no PPBM on domestic flights.)

Regarding the discussion of the box cutters, I think they were added as a taunt. To anybody in the airline buisness -- especially to anyone who has read certain excerpts from the 9-11 security analysis reports -- box cutters and airplanes send chills down their spine.

It's kind of like, the box cutters were there just in case they were caught, as a taunting message. Like a serial killer leaving hair from a previous victim with a fresh killing. (Yeah, I watch too many "Criminal Intent" and "Criminal Mnds" episodes.)

Repeat, these are only my impressions based on the public news reports I've read.


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