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Topic: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: scflyboy
Posted 2010-09-08 05:39:20 and read 7821 times.

JetBlue Airways is pulling out of the Richmond-JFK market in November.

"We have decided to discontinue service between Richmond and New York/JFK effective Nov. 1, 2010," said Alison Croyle, JetBlue's manager of corporate communications.

The low-cost carrier began service from Richmond International Airport in 2006, and it has two daily nonstop flights to and from New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport, using 100-seat Embraer 190 jets.

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/business/2010/sep/08/b-jblu08-ar-491089/

JetBlue will still have from RIC; BOS (2), FLL (1) MCO (1).

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2010-09-08 05:45:24 and read 7788 times.

16 daily flights to NYC from RIC.. interesting.. that's okay but not a whole lot.. surprised about this.. perhaps B6 will open a new route from RIC later..

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: RL757PVD
Posted 2010-09-08 05:50:27 and read 7753 times.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1):
16 daily flights to NYC from RIC.. interesting.. that's okay but not a whole lot.. surprised about this.. perhaps B6 will open a new route from RIC later..

I wonder if AE will take it over as part of their new agreement?

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: enilria
Posted 2010-09-08 06:08:38 and read 7666 times.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 2):
I wonder if AE will take it over as part of their new agreement?

Now that's using noggin. I hear they are close to putting the B6 code on AA flights.

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2010-09-08 06:32:06 and read 7536 times.

"Now that's using noggin. I hear they are close to putting the B6 code on AA flights."

Very untrue.

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: jetbluefan1
Posted 2010-09-08 07:12:03 and read 7415 times.

I think this makes sense. B6 has struggled to make money on its JFK-RIC flights, and using valuable slots on an unprofitable route makes no sense. While disappointing, and clearly an indication of B6's shift in strategy, I guess sometimes you have to make those tough decisions.

I would think that JFK-PIT could be next to go, but the only other PIT service is to BOS. RIC, on the other hand, has decently-performing flights to BOS, FLL and MCO.

JetBluefan1

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: RL757PVD
Posted 2010-09-08 07:48:31 and read 7239 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
Now that's using noggin. I hear they are close to putting the B6 code on AA flights.

I'd love to see that happen, PVD-JFK is too close for B6 metal but AE could do it.

When B6 starts PVD im sure it will be similar to a BDL station with Florida only, but throw in AE for JFK and maybe 9K for BOS and PVD can have full access to the B6 network.

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2010-09-08 11:05:17 and read 6921 times.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 4):
"Now that's using noggin. I hear they are close to putting the B6 code on AA flights."

Very untrue.

No, actually very true. A codeshare is in the works and could be announced as soon as next month.

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: crosswinds21
Posted 2010-09-08 11:36:23 and read 6807 times.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 2):
I wonder if AE will take it over as part of their new agreement?

But if B6 couldn't make it work, how would AA make it work with its less fuel-efficient planes and higher costs?

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2010-09-08 11:41:46 and read 6790 times.

"No, actually very true. A codeshare is in the works and could be announced as soon as next month."

Then that would make a lot of senior manager folks at JetBlue very public liars. Doesn't jive with their blue image very much, but let's reconvene in a month and see who was right, okay?

[Edited 2010-09-08 11:43:01]

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: NASBWI
Posted 2010-09-08 11:45:15 and read 6765 times.

Quoting crosswinds21 (Reply 8):
But if B6 couldn't make it work, how would AA make it work with its less fuel-efficient planes and higher costs?

Perhaps via connections (particularly international ones). True, customers from RIC-JFK on B6 could fly onward to some points (mostly those out west or to the Caribbean), but there are fewer options (save LH, SA, and EI) to go across the pond, or the Pacific. AA would offer those opportunities... Plus, with fewer seats, MQ can perhaps bring better yields with their flights.

It would make logistical sense that most people trying to fly from neighboring - and I use that term loosely - states to NYC would prefer flying to either EWR or LGA (LGA being a slightly more convenient option), rather than JFK.

[Edited 2010-09-08 11:50:54]

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: EricR
Posted 2010-09-08 11:48:34 and read 6741 times.

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 10):
Quoting crosswinds21 (Reply 8):
But if B6 couldn't make it work, how would AA make it work with its less fuel-efficient planes and higher costs?

Perhaps via connections (particularly international ones). True, customers from RIC-JFK on B6 could fly onward to some points (mostly those out west or to the Caribbean), but there are fewer options (save LH, SA, and EI) to go across the pond, or the Pacific. AA would offer those opportunities... Plus, with fewer seats, MQ can perhaps bring better yields with their flights.

Agreed. I think the combination of better connection opportunities and smaller sized aircraft could make the route work for AA.

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: crosswinds21
Posted 2010-09-08 11:53:42 and read 6721 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 11):
Agreed. I think the combination of better connection opportunities and smaller sized aircraft could make the route work for AA.

True, but if B6 and AA are going to start codesharing, then an AA flight on JFK-RIC operated by B6 may work better for AA than an AE/MQ flight would. Either of these options would feed AA's international flights at JFK, but the codeshare with B6 would not involve any expenses on AA's part (albeit it wouldn't really gain them much additional revenue either on that sector).

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: EricR
Posted 2010-09-08 12:09:19 and read 6656 times.

Quoting crosswinds21 (Reply 12):
Quoting EricR (Reply 11):
Agreed. I think the combination of better connection opportunities and smaller sized aircraft could make the route work for AA.

True, but if B6 and AA are going to start codesharing, then an AA flight on JFK-RIC operated by B6 may work better for AA than an AE/MQ flight would. Either of these options would feed AA's international flights at JFK, but the codeshare with B6 would not involve any expenses on AA's part (albeit it wouldn't really gain them much additional revenue either on that sector).

I would agree if Eagle's smallest sized aircraft had the same seating capacity as JetBlue's smallest sized aircraft. I am assuming one of the reasons why AA would take over the route from B6 is because AA has a smaller sized aircraft better suited for the demand on this route.

[Edited 2010-09-08 12:25:33]

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: deltal1011man
Posted 2010-09-08 12:35:47 and read 6565 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
A codeshare is in the works and could be announced as soon as next month.

Its not that close.....AA must talk to the APA(not sure about TWU or APFA) about any codeshare and it must be approved by the APA. This has yet to happen.

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: FWAERJ
Posted 2010-09-08 15:05:32 and read 6327 times.

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 14):
Its not that close.....AA must talk to the APA(not sure about TWU or APFA) about any codeshare and it must be approved by the APA. This has yet to happen.

Which, given the APA's mentality as of late, will be a tough sell...

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: FURUREFA
Posted 2010-09-08 15:34:42 and read 6226 times.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 15):
Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 14):
Its not that close.....AA must talk to the APA(not sure about TWU or APFA) about any codeshare and it must be approved by the APA. This has yet to happen.

Which, given the APA's mentality as of late, will be a tough sell...

I could be wrong, but I thought it was only AA's duty to inform the APA that the airline is considering a domestic codesharing operation. I didn't think AA needed the APA's consent.

Matt

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: BOStonsox
Posted 2010-09-08 16:49:13 and read 5985 times.

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 5):
I would think that JFK-PIT could be next to go, but the only other PIT service is to BOS. RIC, on the other hand, has decently-performing flights to BOS, FLL and MCO.

If JFK-PIT went, I wonder if they would keep BOS-PIT regardless of its performance. B6 has only two domestic cities they serve from only one city: BWI and HOU, the latter being way past due to be connected to BOS.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 6):
I'd love to see that happen, PVD-JFK is too close for B6 metal but AE could do it.

When B6 starts PVD im sure it will be similar to a BDL station with Florida only, but throw in AE for JFK and maybe 9K for BOS and PVD can have full access to the B6 network.

Maybe they can use the JFK-RIC slots on JFK-MHT. There are likely better options, but with your idea plus this it would be a nice way to cover New England. MHT doesn't have as much competetion as PVD does (and don't forget that Providence has Amtrak).

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 10):
True, customers from RIC-JFK on B6 could fly onward to some points (mostly those out west or to the Caribbean), but there are fewer options (save LH, SA, and EI) to go across the pond, or the Pacific.

Plus they can still do this via BOS.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
No, actually very true. A codeshare is in the works and could be announced as soon as next month.

Great. I hope you're right. I am looking forward to seeing that!

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: tharanga
Posted 2010-09-08 17:05:36 and read 5886 times.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 17):
Maybe they can use the JFK-RIC slots on JFK-MHT.

From what I've seen on here, jetblue already has unused slots at JFK, even after trading some to AA.

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2010-09-08 17:22:12 and read 5770 times.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 9):
"No, actually very true. A codeshare is in the works and could be announced as soon as next month."

Then that would make a lot of senior manager folks at JetBlue very public liars. Doesn't jive with their blue image very much, but let's reconvene in a month and see who was right, okay?

Deny it all you want, but its in the works.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/10836...-jetblue-negotiate-code-share.html

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: SurfandSnow
Posted 2010-09-08 17:23:03 and read 5770 times.

When you think about it, this isn't at all surprising. For short business trips between New York and Richmond, JFK makes no sense to the time-sensitive biz traveler when flights to/from LGA and EWR are available. On the other hand, I can see RIC-BOS being very popular with business travelers as B6 serves the primary (convenient) airport, and the only other choice is a cramped legacy RJ versus the full-size E-jet. As for RIC-MCO and RIC-FLL, I'm sure there is no shortage of Richmonders wishing to visit Disney World and other parks or take a cruise or explore South Florida's legendary beaches.

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: FutureUScapt
Posted 2010-09-08 18:31:58 and read 5413 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):

Deny it all you want, but its in the works.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/10836....html

I notice that is says "perhaps a codeshare." In fact, this is the second or third such article I've read where it seems that AA is interested in a deeper relationship, but that B6 seems somewhat apprehensive about doing so (I'm referring to a comment by Arpey earlier this year about how the codeshare option was "on the table" which lead me to believe that AA is willing when/if B6 decides that is the right decision.)

I know I'm probably in the minority here (and that I'll probably get flamed for this) but I think that there is a very real possibility that B6 agreed to the most non-commital type deal that it could just to get the DCA slots that it so desperately wanted.

By any account, it seems that B6 would much rather negotiate deals with international carriers with whom they don't compete with as opposed to a carrier that has a strong domestic NYC presence. Whether or not this partnerships with international carriers will be sufficient for B6's long-term strategy remains to be seen. Perhaps you and others will end up being right about a future AA-B6 codeshare, which would make for quite a force in the NYC market.

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: flyby519
Posted 2010-09-08 18:44:55 and read 5327 times.

Quoting FURUREFA (Reply 16):
I could be wrong, but I thought it was only AA's duty to inform the APA that the airline is considering a domestic codesharing operation. I didn't think AA needed the APA's consent.

Matt

I cant remember the exact specifics, but I know that APA doesnt have supreme veto power for a domestic codeshare. AMR must inform APA of a domestic codeshare, if APA opposes the agreement then it goes to an arbitration for a max of a 30day period. Once the arbitrator rules, game over. APA has an awful record with arbitrators recently, they should do anything to keep this in-house and work out an agreement.

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: crAAzy
Posted 2010-09-08 19:31:51 and read 5084 times.

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 22):
APA has an awful record with arbitrators recently, they should do anything to keep this in-house and work out an agreement.

It's way too late for that ... AA has moved on with AS on the west coast and now B6 in the Northeast.

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: jetbluefan1
Posted 2010-09-08 21:21:03 and read 4702 times.

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 21):
I know I'm probably in the minority here (and that I'll probably get flamed for this) but I think that there is a very real possibility that B6 agreed to the most non-commital type deal that it could just to get the DCA slots that it so desperately wanted.

I actually have to agree with you on this. I think AA has more to gain by partnering than vice versa, which is supported by Dave Barger's hesitance to agree that AA is a potential code-share partner, but instead has continuously stated that AA is still a major competitor. B6 wanted DCA access, and they wanted it NOW. AA, which has yet to partner with another airline to form its own mega-airline, saw an opportunity to partner up with a rather forceful LCC - which happened to have its largest station at one of AA's largest stations. Not to mention that having feed for the European and South American flights could never hurt. And slots - 17 of them. JetBlue was so desperate to get into DCA that it gave up nearly double the amount of slots it gained at its largest station. The 1 HPN slot still puzzles me.

In my opinion, dropping RIC-JFK may actually be a negative for B6's new fascination with establishing interline partners. RIC is an example of a market that the international interline partners would like to have access to. While it will continue to be served from BOS - which will mean that Aer Lingus, LH and AA still have access to the market - El Al and SA will not, not to mention that only offering BOS connections means less opportunities to drive revenue. But then again, I have no evidence to suggest that RIC was a strong market for international connections. Perhaps it was an insignificant amount.

Whatever the case, participating in a code share - if done strategically - could be a win-win situation for both B6 and AA. But it shouldn't prevent either airline for looking to partner with others - even if the partner airline is a competitor.

JetBluefan1

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: nwaesc
Posted 2010-09-08 21:21:30 and read 4728 times.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1):
16 daily flights to NYC from RIC.. interesting.. that's okay but not a whole lot..

Well, apparently it's more than plenty right now...

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2010-09-09 07:42:26 and read 4006 times.

Except in that article, the JetBlue guy says this:


"The two carriers recently announced plans to enable customers to earn frequent flier miles on either airline on connecting flights. The next step, said JetBlue spokesman Bryan Baldwin, is for the carriers to post interline itineraries on their websites.

"We've said all along that we are open to discussions with American to grow this relationship, but at this time we have no plans to enter into a traditional two-way code-share relationship with American," Baldwin said. "


AA is buying the drinks, but I don't think B6 is going back to the room.

Topic: RE: B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK
Username: OzarkD9S
Posted 2010-09-09 10:31:21 and read 3873 times.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 26):


"We've said all along that we are open to discussions with American to grow this relationship, but at this time we have no plans to enter into a traditional two-way code-share relationship with American," Baldwin said. "


AA is buying the drinks, but I don't think B6 is going back to the room.

They key word in B6's statement is "traditional". Will be intersting to see if they can hammer out some new form of codesharing and what that might look like.


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