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Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: jasewgtn
Posted 2010-11-03 20:20:57 and read 98424 times.

Just received from a local newpaper on Twitter

@NZStuffAlerts: BREAKING - Reports a plane has exploded over Batam in Indonesia... fears it may have been a Qantas jet.

@NZStuffAlerts: BREAKING - UPDATE: Local media speculating that debris was from a Qantas jet. This report is unconfirmed. More soon

[Edited 2010-11-03 20:24:42]

[Edited 2010-11-03 20:30:22]

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: jasewgtn
Posted 2010-11-03 20:22:41 and read 98694 times.

ANd now this received...

@SkyWorldNews: BREAKING: Reports of an emergency landing of a Qantas jet in Singapore,following an explosion heard over western Indonesia



All very scary?

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: flyorski
Posted 2010-11-03 20:23:34 and read 98559 times.

Hope everything is alright and everyone is okay. It will be interesting to see what develops, although as I state I hope everyone is fine.

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: afterburner
Posted 2010-11-03 20:23:55 and read 99175 times.

Here's a picture: http://i51.tinypic.com/ilketf.jpg

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: HiJazzey
Posted 2010-11-03 20:23:56 and read 98587 times.

JAKARTA, Nov 03, 2010 (Xinhua via COMTEX) -- An airbus
plane operated by Qantas had an air accident in Batam island of
Indonesia on Thursday, with some pieces of the plane falling
down after an explosion in the air and the plane had landed in
Singapore, local police chief Eka Yudha was quoted by TV One as
saying.

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: scrumpy492003
Posted 2010-11-03 20:25:05 and read 98471 times.

Oh Dear,

As a photo is available, then I suppose that the outcome was positive.

Peter

[Edited 2010-11-03 20:27:06]

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: cpd
Posted 2010-11-03 20:25:55 and read 98370 times.

Hope everyone is okay.

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: JCS17
Posted 2010-11-03 20:25:57 and read 98655 times.

I saw the same thing on Twitter  

If its an A388, it would be QF31.

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: Longhornmaniac
Posted 2010-11-03 20:26:17 and read 98268 times.

Looks like an A380, if it is, indeed, an Airbus.

Hope everyone is ok.

Cheers,
Cameron

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: Dl767captain
Posted 2010-11-03 20:26:31 and read 98271 times.

Looks like an engine problem from the smoke trail

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: HiJazzey
Posted 2010-11-03 20:27:28 and read 98255 times.

can someone edit the title? It's misleading. The plane landed safely.

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: cpd
Posted 2010-11-03 20:29:59 and read 98299 times.

yes, A380.   Sad. It has landed, so that's good - hope everyone is okay and that it's just an engine failure.

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: 9V-SVC
Posted 2010-11-03 20:31:28 and read 97932 times.

Again, the media blows this whole matter out of porportion. Glad that the plane landed safely, that's the most important thing!

[Edited 2010-11-03 20:45:06]

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: flyorski
Posted 2010-11-03 20:33:35 and read 97850 times.

Quoting 9V-SVC (Reply 12):
Again, the media blows this whole matter out of porportion. Goodness its just an engine failure ! Glad that the plane landed safely, that's the most important thing!

Here is some of that media.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/43...8968/Plane-explodes-over-Indonesia

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: afterburner
Posted 2010-11-03 20:34:02 and read 97649 times.

An article from an Indonesian news site with a picture (translated using Google Translate): link.

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2010-11-03 20:36:39 and read 97469 times.

Uncontained engine failure?

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: AndrewCYChow
Posted 2010-11-03 20:38:23 and read 97481 times.

I think Reuter's frontpage is more misleading than anything else?

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: cpd
Posted 2010-11-03 20:39:18 and read 97278 times.

Quoting 9V-SVC (Reply 12):
Again, the media blows this whole matter out of porportion. Goodness its just an engine failure ! Glad that the plane landed safely, that's the most important thing!

But nobody knows that at first, it is sketchy details from a far away region, and everyone is desperate to get the first news out. That's no defense of this - but that's just how it is. I imagine the media will refine their articles soon.

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2010-11-03 20:39:54 and read 97367 times.

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-...t-engine-fails-20101104-17f49.html

Engine #2 failure...

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: 9V-SVC
Posted 2010-11-03 20:39:56 and read 97262 times.

I hope so too, let's keep our fingers cross !

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: Airport
Posted 2010-11-03 20:40:07 and read 97113 times.

Do we have reliable evidence that this was just an engine failure?

To my untrained eye, it appears that the smoke is coming just to the left of the engine, on the wing. But that's just me. Let's wait till we have more information to come to any conclusion.

Cheers,
Anthony/Airport

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: jasewgtn
Posted 2010-11-03 20:40:39 and read 97094 times.

Yeah,

It's amazing it was on the radio and news that the plane had crashed in Indonesia due to an inflight explosion.

Now it looks like simply a engine issue with a few debris making ground fall and plane returning safely to Singapore

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2010-11-03 20:41:02 and read 97103 times.

Where are the fuel dump valves on a 380?

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: cpd
Posted 2010-11-03 20:42:46 and read 96951 times.

Quoting Airport (Reply 20):
, it appears that the smoke is coming just to the left of the engine, on the wing

It looks like bits of the engine cowling according to the photograph, and I've seen the QF A380-842 close up enough to recognise what it is. In that location, there isn't much else that is red and white, except for right near the base of the tail.

The person above just asked the same question as I was going to. I wondered if that might be fuel dumping.


EDIT: Looks like the fuel dump valves are between the two engines on the dash 861 version (emirates). Don't know if the dash 842 is different. It does look like fuel dumping though.

[Edited 2010-11-03 20:45:46]

[Edited 2010-11-03 20:56:43]

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: PyroGX41487
Posted 2010-11-03 20:44:17 and read 96688 times.

Anyone checked Flightaware or other radar sites to see if this plane is still in the air?

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: NZ107
Posted 2010-11-03 20:46:33 and read 101108 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 22):
Quoting cpd (Reply 23):

Second furthest canoe, just inside the outer engines:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andy Marks-UK Air Pix
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Lars Hentschel

Quoting PyroGX41487 (Reply 24):

Landed in SIN.

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: ThreeIfByAir
Posted 2010-11-03 20:47:40 and read 99538 times.

That is an awfully new engine to be suffering an uncontained failure.

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: Airport
Posted 2010-11-03 20:48:34 and read 105742 times.

Reuters seems to have taken down its reports that the plane has crashed, but at the same time Fox News is reporting that the initial source that claimed that the plane landed safely is now saying the plane is still circling overhead dumping fuel. Nothing on CNN yet.

These reports are all saying that there was an explosion and that large debris was found scattered near a shopping mall. If these reports are true and not exaggerated, just out of curiousity, when was the last time that we've had an explosive uncontained engine failure?

Cheers,
Anthony/Airport

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: cpd
Posted 2010-11-03 20:48:42 and read 105608 times.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA32

This might be QF32, rather than QF31. I'm open to correction though.

Quoting Airport (Reply 27):
when was the last time that we've had an explosive uncontained engine failure?

Qantas B747-438 that had the bits go out the side of the engine out of USA headed to Australia recently?

[Edited 2010-11-03 20:49:43]

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: jasewgtn
Posted 2010-11-03 20:50:22 and read 105451 times.

Quoting cpd (Reply 28):
This might be QF32, rather than QF31. I'm open to correction though.

Qantas are saying QF32.


Headline in New Zealand has been amended to this now: BREAKING NEWS Qantas flight lands safely in Singapore after engine trouble; Indonesia finds plane wreckage

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: NIKV69
Posted 2010-11-03 20:55:34 and read 104566 times.

Wow I read a tweet that would lead you to believe it exploded in flight! Scary. Glad all is well!

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: KFlyer
Posted 2010-11-03 20:56:18 and read 104454 times.

QF32/3NOV flown by VH-OQA

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: aviasian
Posted 2010-11-03 20:58:36 and read 104316 times.

It's VH-OQA which departed Singapore earlier in the morning at 0956hrs to Sydney and eventually returned safely to Singapore at 1146hrs. The aircraft is now parked at gate C23.

Thank goodness all is well.

KC Sim

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: PyroGX41487
Posted 2010-11-03 21:04:41 and read 103502 times.

Thank God it was just an abundance of drama. I'm glad this wasn't a fatal accident, especially after all this type has endured in the testing phase.

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: bioyuki
Posted 2010-11-03 21:05:18 and read 106464 times.

My friend was on the flight. Here's the pic he took:

http://yfrog.com/0quh4dj

You can see the damage to the wing.



Edit: Added image directly

[Edited 2010-11-03 21:08:37]

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: PWMRamper
Posted 2010-11-03 21:05:30 and read 103445 times.

Glad to hear everything is okay...should be interesting to find out what happened.

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: PyroGX41487
Posted 2010-11-03 21:07:48 and read 103680 times.

Quoting bioyuki (Reply 34):
My friend was on the flight. Here's the pic he took:

http://yfrog.com/0quh4dj

You can see the damage to the wing.

Ouch! Uncontained fanblade failure?

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: flyorski
Posted 2010-11-03 21:08:36 and read 103381 times.

Quoting bioyuki (Reply 34):
My friend was on the flight. Here's the pic he took:

http://yfrog.com/0quh4dj

You can see the damage to the wing.

Wow! Thanks for sharing, its amazing that we can expect someone a.net to know someone/be acquainted with someone on virtually every flight. Impressive photos your friend took. Glad everything is fine and it was all overblown.

Topic: QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing
Username: DH2Beaver
Posted 2010-11-03 21:11:10 and read 103090 times.

Flight Details
QF 32 Operated by: Qantas Airways
Depart: London (Heathrow) 4. Nov 11:10
Arrive: Sydney 5. Nov 20:15
Stopover: Singapore for 1:30
Total Time: 22:05 hours
Aircraft: Boeing 747-400 - view seat map
Close

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Baroque
Posted 2010-11-03 21:14:12 and read 102465 times.

Quoting cpd (Reply 28):
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA32

This might be QF32, rather than QF31. I'm open to correction though.

Correct. QF 32. It takes off for Sydney just after about 9.00 am Singapore time.

Due in about 8.00 Sydney time. I was on that flight just over a month ago. Probably either K Smith or Nancy Bird as they are usually on that route. I have pics of the wings of both. But they were OK when I was on them!!! Then again it could have been another plane although they do not have all that many.

I guess coming apart near SIN is the best place as SIN will have more spares for a Roller 380 than most!!!

Oh dear.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: 777ER
Posted 2010-11-03 21:15:08 and read 102386 times.

Heard it on the radio while driving home - glad that everyone is ok.

Quoting 9V-SVC (Reply 12):

Thats a very unfair comment on the media considering they were still receiving reports like everyone here was

Quoting flyorski (Reply 13):

Like ever media outlet the headlines are changing when they receive better news!

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: aviasian
Posted 2010-11-03 21:16:03 and read 102184 times.

DH2Beaver: Aircraft in question is an A380 that departed London-Heathrow on 3 November.

KC Sim

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: cpd
Posted 2010-11-03 21:16:54 and read 102574 times.

Quoting DH2Beaver (Reply 38):
Flight Details
QF 32 Operated by: Qantas Airways
Depart: London (Heathrow) 4. Nov 11:10
Arrive: Sydney 5. Nov 20:15
Stopover: Singapore for 1:30
Total Time: 22:05 hours
Aircraft: Boeing 747-400 - view seat map
Close

Er, not quite. VH-OQA is A380-842, not a B747-400.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 39):
I guess coming apart near SIN is the best place as SIN will have more spares for a Roller 380 than most!!!

Correct. It doesn't look a pretty sight. Looks like it shot bits and pieces up through the wing. I don't imagine it will be a quick fix.

[Edited 2010-11-03 21:18:22]

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: acidradio
Posted 2010-11-03 21:17:15 and read 102414 times.

Just to let everyone know -

I changed the name of this thread to confirm that this was an engine failure and that there was NOT a crash. Qantas's corporate webpage confirms the following:

Statement on QF32 Air Return to Singapore - Aircraft has Landed Safely

Sydney, 04 November 2010

A Qantas A380 aircraft operating QF32 from Singapore to Sydney experienced an engine issue soon after take off and returned to Singapore.

The aircraft had 433 passengers and 26 crew on board.

In line with procedure, the pilot sought priority clearance for its return to Singapore. The aircraft landed safely at 11.45am local time.

Some media reports suggested the aircraft had crashed. These reports are incorrect. No Qantas aircraft has crashed.

Further details will be released once they are available.

Issued by Qantas Corporate Communication (5029)


http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn.../details?ArticleID=2010/nov10/5029

I'm glad to see that everyone is safe.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Baroque
Posted 2010-11-03 21:17:29 and read 102271 times.

Quoting bioyuki (Reply 34):
My friend was on the flight. Here's the pic he took:

http://yfrog.com/0quh4dj

You can see the damage to the wing.

Ouch.

Quoting DH2Beaver (Reply 38):
Flight Details
QF 32 Operated by: Qantas Airways
Depart: London (Heathrow) 4. Nov 11:10
Arrive: Sydney 5. Nov 20:15
Stopover: Singapore for 1:30
Total Time: 22:05 hours
Aircraft: Boeing 747-400 - view seat map
Close

Are you sure??? It is usually an A380

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: KFlyer
Posted 2010-11-03 21:18:09 and read 104631 times.

My goodness. Is this photo real ? ?

Link: http://twitpic.com/33q4r7

[Edited 2010-11-03 21:21:16]

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: cosmofly
Posted 2010-11-03 21:19:03 and read 102315 times.

Quoting bioyuki (Reply 34):
My friend was on the flight. Here's the pic he took:

http://yfrog.com/0quh4dj

You can see the damage to the wing.

It looks nasty. Uncontained??? Could the wing tank be damaged?

She is going to be parked for a while.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: timpdx
Posted 2010-11-03 21:20:02 and read 102650 times.

Wow, gotta love A-net. We get "treated" to a photo taken by a friend of a regular poster on a particular flight with a rare, newsworty incident, and said person was sitting on the right side of the plane and happened to have a camera handy.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: PITingres
Posted 2010-11-03 21:22:08 and read 103145 times.

Quoting PyroGX41487 (Reply 36):
Uncontained fanblade failure?

Funny place for a fan event. I'd guess maybe an LPT failure of some sort?

Quoting DH2Beaver (Reply 38):
Aircraft: Boeing 747-400 ....

Ah yes, one of the 744's with the wing fences...   (we see the leading edge of the fence in bloyukis friend's photo). not blaming you but I wish the media could get the basics right, like the difference between a 744 and an A380. It's not like we are asking to distinguish between 737NG models, but if it has a wing fence, it's not a Boeing...

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: bioyuki
Posted 2010-11-03 21:22:35 and read 102230 times.

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 45):
My goodness. Is this photo real ? ?

Yes, the photo is real. This was his first A380 flight and was quite excited about it. You can see the original post on twitter, his username is @ulfw

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Quokka
Posted 2010-11-03 21:24:05 and read 101412 times.

Quoting DH2Beaver (Reply 38):
Flight Details
QF 32 Operated by: Qantas Airways
Depart: London (Heathrow) 4. Nov 11:10
Arrive: Sydney 5. Nov 20:15
Stopover: Singapore for 1:30
Total Time: 22:05 hours
Aircraft: Boeing 747-400 - view seat map
Close

But today is the 4th November, not the 5th.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: cpd
Posted 2010-11-03 21:24:35 and read 102506 times.

Quoting PITingres (Reply 48):
like the difference between a 744 and an A380.

According to Sydney Morning Herald, "it looked like a large plane, like a Boeing 737-400"!!  

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: SXDFC
Posted 2010-11-03 21:25:14 and read 100572 times.

Its always nice to hear of news stories that change for the better instead of the worse.

For the record though, not to sound morbid, but if this plane did crash, would it take the spot as the worst single aircraft disaster?

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: 7673mech
Posted 2010-11-03 21:27:24 and read 101487 times.

Oh oh, ground the fleet!
Add further delivery delays!
Ground the 787 fleet too!!!

    

Sorry guys, joking. Tired.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: cpd
Posted 2010-11-03 21:27:32 and read 100502 times.

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 52):
For the record though, not to sound morbid, but if this plane did crash, would it take the spot as the worst single aircraft disaster?

How many were on that B747-SR in Japan that crashed? That would still be one of the worst. Fortunately "Nancy-Bird" didn't crash.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: KFlyer
Posted 2010-11-03 21:27:43 and read 100468 times.

bioyuki, yes, I realised it was real, but I meant the one I posted. Look at how horrible that is !
QF32/3NOV is VH-OQA A388. QF32/4NOV is 744. The flight in question is 3NOV.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: bohica
Posted 2010-11-03 21:29:25 and read 100247 times.

Quoting Airport (Reply 27):
Fox News is reporting that the initial source that claimed that the plane landed safely is now saying the plane is still circling overhead dumping fuel. Nothing on CNN yet.

I'm surprised Fox even mentioned that much. The world could come to an end right now and CNN, Fox, and MSNBC could care less. Yesterday's elections are more important to them and for the next week, all they are going to have are "experts" telling us why we voted one way or the other. It would be nice to have a news network that actually reports the news.

Rant over.

Glad to hear the plane landed safely.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Baroque
Posted 2010-11-03 21:30:14 and read 100430 times.

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-...ring-explosion-20101104-17f49.html

Thinks it is an A380.

I am trying to find my pics of the A380 wing from about that angle, but if (as I think I can see) there are numerous plates on the top of the wing, it is not an A380. That is where the huge single piece plate runs.

http://www.sme.org/cgi-bin/find-arti...es.pl?&ME05ART13&ME&20050309&&SME&

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Baroque
Posted 2010-11-03 21:33:14 and read 99788 times.

Quoting cpd (Reply 51):
According to Sydney Morning Herald, "it looked like a large plane, like a Boeing 737-400"!!

Indeed. Bloody enormous those things!!!

Quoting cpd (Reply 54):
"Nancy-Bird"

Aha, so it was Nancy. I have to say I prefer Charlie!

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Springbok747
Posted 2010-11-03 21:33:53 and read 100218 times.

Just spoke to my cousin who was on the flight. All pax and crew are ok, no injuries or anything. There was a loud bang and the whole aircraft shook it seems. My cousin thought a bomb went off..but the crew were calm and handled situation extremely well (his words). Well done Qantas. Wonder why this happened on a new A380 though..and why does stuff like this keep happening to Qantas? First a 747, now an A380..

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: VHHYI
Posted 2010-11-03 21:41:25 and read 100804 times.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 57):

This image showing the damage has since been added:

Credit: AFP

[Edited 2010-11-03 21:44:28]

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: cpd
Posted 2010-11-03 21:41:45 and read 99360 times.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 59):
and why does stuff like this keep happening to Qantas? First a 747, now an A380..

It's luck of the draw - just extraordinary bad luck.

BA had the problem with BA38 G-YMMM that went down at EGLL, so it's not just QF that has issues. It's just chance. And engines do sometimes fail. Just that some of them fail more dramatically than others.

[Edited 2010-11-03 21:46:01]

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: PyroGX41487
Posted 2010-11-03 21:46:54 and read 98637 times.

Quoting VHHYI (Reply 60):
This image showing the damage has since been added:

Wow! Not flight-threatening, I don't think, but still scary. The poor passengers...

What could have caused that? Fanblade? I'm no expert on engine failures.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Baroque
Posted 2010-11-03 21:47:31 and read 99038 times.

Quoting VHHYI (Reply 60):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 57):

This image showing the damage has since been added:

Yes, just saw that at
http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-...ring-explosion-20101104-17f49.html

Looks about the same stage has gone on this Trent as went on the RB211 on the 747. And gone about as comprehensively too.

Reminds one of Beatty at Jutland "there is something wrong with our bloody ships today".

He said that after two had blown up, so possibly this is the moment to say it (although if you count the bench test incident it is three).

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: NZ107
Posted 2010-11-03 21:47:41 and read 99836 times.

Quoting cpd (Reply 61):
and why does stuff like this keep happening to Qantas? First a 747, now an A380..

It's luck of the draw - just extraordinary bad luck.

If you look at the trend, QF is lucky there's nothing bigger than the A380 at the moment  
Quoting cpd (Reply 61):
I find it remarkable that share holders get panicked so quickly about this... Even if a plan

Efficient market hypothesis.. Too efficient that the first bits of news that were misleading caused a 5% drop in price..

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Mir
Posted 2010-11-03 21:48:13 and read 98394 times.

Quoting bohica (Reply 56):
I'm surprised Fox even mentioned that much. The world could come to an end right now and CNN, Fox, and MSNBC could care less. Yesterday's elections are more important to them and for the next week, all they are going to have are "experts" telling us why we voted one way or the other. It would be nice to have a news network that actually reports the news.

To be fair, this isn't really that newsworthy of an event. If it was a crash, sure, but a return-to-airport isn't that big a deal - happens all the time. The airframe damage is a bit more interesting, but overall it's not really cause for interest outside of the aviation community.

As for the aircraft itself, that's a weird place to have skin damage. I'm surprised the wing tanks didn't take some hits. Going to be interesting to see exactly what happens.

-Mir

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: 9V-SPJ
Posted 2010-11-03 21:49:20 and read 98675 times.

Yes, looks like an uncontained engine failure, and since it looks like it is the rear of the engine, maybe a turbine blade blew?

9V-SPJ

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: NZ107
Posted 2010-11-03 21:49:58 and read 98947 times.

Press release from Qantas:

Quote:
A Qantas A380 aircraft operating QF32 from Singapore to Sydney
experienced an engine issue soon after take off and returned to Singapore.
The aircraft had 433 passengers and 26 crew on board.
In line with procedure, the pilot sought priority clearance for its return to Singapore. The aircraft
landed safely at 11.45am local time.
Some media reports suggested the aircraft had crashed. These reports are incorrect. No Qantas
aircraft has crashed.

Haha, love the addition of the last line.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Baroque
Posted 2010-11-03 21:50:58 and read 98373 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 65):
To be fair, this isn't really that newsworthy of an event. If it was a crash, sure, but a return-to-airport isn't that big a deal - happens all the time.

Easy. It was a Scarebus. And better yet, the really big and really scary Scarebus.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: ABpositive
Posted 2010-11-03 21:51:31 and read 98453 times.

I'm amazed by the effect media's mis-reporting has:

"Investors sent shares tumbling by more than 5 per cent ... on reports that flight QF32 had crashed...
The share price recovered most of its losses, as it became clear that the aircraft had landed safely back at Singapore."

source - The Age

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Dizzy777
Posted 2010-11-03 21:54:25 and read 98044 times.

7 News australia just showed a picture of the aircraft on the tarmac (will post link as soon as it hits the net).. The bulk of the rear section of the engine is gone...


EDIT: Looks like i was a bit slow..

[Edited 2010-11-03 21:57:22]

[Edited 2010-11-03 21:58:30]

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Dehowie
Posted 2010-11-03 21:54:33 and read 98009 times.

Im intrigued by the carbon markings aft of the reverse cowl looks like a lot of hear vacated through the side of the cowl.
Think Rolls Royce have some explaining to do.
Slat in inner wing damage looks like casing failed in its job of containing all that rotating metal..again more explanations from rolls please.
If anything the inner wing damage could of made this far more serious...far more.
Good job by the boys..well done..

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: aussie747
Posted 2010-11-03 22:18:39 and read 96227 times.

Had not the A380's just undergone a C check recently with Airbus or LH Technik in Hamburg recently. The service on this plane would have been done about 2 months ago os so. But a guess an engine failure like this can happen anywhere anytime, it just seems to happen a few times of late with QF.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: francoflier
Posted 2010-11-03 22:22:07 and read 95864 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 65):
As for the aircraft itself, that's a weird place to have skin damage.

Not that weird, really. Uncontained engine failures usually send high velicity metallic debris flying in a disc shape around the failed disc. I have seen one happen, albeit on a much smaller aircraft, and debris flew through the wing, the fuselage (and out the other side) and everything that happened to be in the same plane as the failed disc. Scary stuff. In this case I believe the bulk of the wing might actually have protected the fuselage from getting any impact.

Quoting Dehowie (Reply 71):
looks like a lot of hear vacated through the side of the cowl.

Almost certainly due to an ensuing fire.


BTW what A380 was that? Was that a recently delivered one?
Engine failure statistically happen pretty often when an engine is brand new...

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Baroque
Posted 2010-11-03 22:27:15 and read 95294 times.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 73):
Almost certainly due to an ensuing fire.

Probably engine surge either just before the failure, during or after it. Someone will know which.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: cpd
Posted 2010-11-03 22:28:37 and read 95123 times.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 73):
BTW what A380 was that? Was that a recently delivered one?
VH-OQA - as was mentioned numerous times above. It's QF's first one.

[Edited 2010-11-03 22:28:54]

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: andrewtang
Posted 2010-11-03 22:28:48 and read 95167 times.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 73):

BTW what A380 was that? Was that a recently delivered one?
Engine failure statistically happen pretty often when an engine is brand new...

It's VH-OQA, Qantas' first A380-842.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: twinotter4ever
Posted 2010-11-03 22:30:24 and read 95667 times.

Taking a look back at Reply 3's picture I would hazard to guess that the failed engine part (presumably turbine blades, discs, etc...) did penetrate the fuel tanks causing the vapour trail shown slightly inboard of the #2 engine. Looking at the wing shot from inside the aircraft you can see where there is protruding metal at the leading edge, however in the same radial area (from the rear of the engine) you can also see a less pronounced gash line and a little of what looks like a flow residue. Could have very well been leaking a substantial amount of fuel after the catastrophic failure. Any fuel dump port as mentioned earlier are located outboard of the engine.

This could have been much worse. I hope all this is not a sign of any potential design issue with the Rolls engine designs as of late. (though the 744 incident is on a much older engine design) You only used to hear this happening on CF6s from time to time. Hopefully just unfortunate coincidence.

Glad everyone arrived back safely in any case  

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: KFlyer
Posted 2010-11-03 22:32:05 and read 96117 times.

This is one photo to love  

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: 777ER
Posted 2010-11-03 22:37:02 and read 93818 times.

Quoting PITingres (Reply 48):
Quoting DH2Beaver (Reply 38):
Aircraft: Boeing 747-400 ....

Ah yes, one of the 744's with the wing fences... (we see the leading edge of the fence in bloyukis friend's photo). not blaming you but I wish the media could get the basics right

What makes you think the media said that as I can't see where it says that info came from the media?

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 52):
For the record though, not to sound morbid, but if this plane did crash, would it take the spot as the worst single aircraft disaster?

if it wasn't the worst single diasater then it would have become the first A380 frame lost

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 64):
Quoting cpd (Reply 61):
and why does stuff like this keep happening to Qantas? First a 747, now an A380..

It's luck of the draw - just extraordinary bad luck.

If you look at the trend, QF is lucky there's nothing bigger than the A380 at the moment

A pattern is certainly happening at QF. Thankfully none has resulted in loss of life

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: LH648
Posted 2010-11-03 22:41:29 and read 93639 times.

Qantas is quite unlucky with the Airbuses...

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: N14AZ
Posted 2010-11-03 22:54:10 and read 92758 times.

VH-OQA was in FRA just some weeks ago for maintenance (C-check? Don't remember wich check) at LH Technik. Did this include the check of the engines?

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: kaitak
Posted 2010-11-03 22:55:56 and read 92798 times.

Sky is just showing footage of emergency services at SIN spraying the left wing engines of the A380; from the footage, it looks like it is spraying well short of the engine!

While this is an embarrassing incident for QF, I tend to think that it is more embarrassing for RR; yes, QF has had some incidents recently (add the QF 330 incident near PER to that list), but at the end of the day, it was a serious failure to an RR engine which caused this.

You can just imagine the reaction of people at QF on receiving the first tweet above.

The report mentions 26 crewmembers on board; would that be three pilots and 23 cabin crew?

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: SyeaphanR
Posted 2010-11-03 22:57:07 and read 92700 times.

Quoting LH648 (Reply 80):
Qantas is quite unlucky with the Airbuses...

I can't imagine this is being regarded with joy at RR, either!

Just wait until some journo joins the dots to other events, especially the test-bed blow-up earlier this year...

Say after me: "Statistical Grouping"!

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: railker
Posted 2010-11-03 22:58:25 and read 92428 times.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 82):
from the footage, it looks like it is spraying well short of the engine!

Well if it did puncture the fuel tank, there'd be fuel leaking on the ground, they probably want to try and keep that from posing any problems

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: virgin744
Posted 2010-11-03 22:58:58 and read 92653 times.

Guess its not uncommon for Qantas!
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../a/2010/08/31/BA021F67JO.DTL&tsp=1

and this is a reenactment of what probably happened to VH-OQA's engine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPX8w0FFaEA&feature=related

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2010-11-03 23:08:06 and read 92264 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 65):

To be fair, this isn't really that newsworthy of an event. I

The world's largest airliner, a brand-new aircraft, suffers an uncontained engine failure? Powered by RR engines made by the same manufacturer that had an uncontained failure in testing for their 787 powerplant?

Boy, this is going to make me think twice before boarding any aircraft powered by new-build RR engines for a while.

I'd say that's newsworthy.

And someone at RR has some serious 'splainin' to do.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: 'Longreach'
Posted 2010-11-03 23:09:31 and read 92258 times.

All A380's grounded until further notice...

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: kaitak
Posted 2010-11-03 23:10:28 and read 91846 times.

Just saw Alan Joyce giving a press conference; another aircraft being sent up to SIN to take pax back (I think you'll need two, Alan!) ...

AJ also said that QF A380 operations are being suspended until the initial investigation takes place.

Nice to hear the head of an Aussie airline with a Dublin accent! I

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: 'Longreach'
Posted 2010-11-03 23:16:17 and read 91403 times.

Your friends photo just appeared on ABC 24!!

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: KFlyer
Posted 2010-11-03 23:19:17 and read 91120 times.

@Longreach Just kidding ? If not where's the source ?
The C check was from 14SEP. It flew QF6020 LHR FRA if you remember.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: etherealsky
Posted 2010-11-03 23:20:18 and read 91743 times.

What happens after an event like this? If it was a mechanical fault will RR be financially responsible?
Also, can parts from the engine (accessories, compressor/fan blades, valves/control units, etc.) be re-used or must they be destroyed after being involved in an incident like this?

Quoting francoflier (Reply 73):
In this case I believe the bulk of the wing might actually have protected the fuselage from getting any impact.

Yes, good thing it didn't turn out like Delta 1288, an MD-88 that had an uncontaned failure on takeoff which killed passengers in Florida when a blade ripped through the cabin  
Quoting francoflier (Reply 73):
Engine failure statistically happen pretty often when an engine is brand new...

Interesting - why is that? I would have thought that fatigue or stress-induced damage would be a more common cause for an uncontained failure.

Quoting timpdx (Reply 47):

Indeed - what an excellent community  

[Edited 2010-11-03 23:34:13]

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: flyorski
Posted 2010-11-03 23:23:00 and read 90793 times.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 88):
AJ also said that QF A380 operations are being suspended until the initial investigation takes place.

I also saw that on BBC. I wonder if they are grounding all A380s because they expect another engine failure could happen at any time with perhaps a much worse outcome? Or is this just something they "announce" they are doing, and then in a few hours resume flights? I do think RR could take some heat for this, hopefully everything gets cleared up and any issues are identified and resolved for safer flights in the future.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: 'Longreach'
Posted 2010-11-03 23:23:46 and read 90902 times.

Sorry I missed the word QF...

All QF A380's suspended.

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news...ights/story-e6frfku9-1225947943247

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: PanAm_DC10
Posted 2010-11-03 23:25:00 and read 90713 times.

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 90):
If not where's the source ?

Here is a report that QF have indeed suspended A380 flights;

Australian airline Qantas Airways (QAN.AX) grounded its entire fleet of A380 aircraft on Thursday after an engine failure forced one its flights to make an emergency landing in Singapore.

"We will suspend all A380 takeoffs until we are fully confident we have sufficient information about (flight) QF32," Qantas Chief Executive Alan Joyce told reporters.


Source

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2010-11-03 23:26:52 and read 90303 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 86):
I'd say that's newsworthy.

Nothing's newsworthy to some people here unless the deaths of hundreds of people are involved.

The fact is almost any uncontained engine failure in any airliner is newsworthy, unless it's a 40 year old plane in a third world country (and even that sounds crass to say). On a major airline flying a new, high profile aircraft carrying many people, you bet it's newsworthy.

Contained engine failures are one thing; uncontained engine failures quite another. You can see in the photos the damage done not just to the engine, but to the wing. In other uncontained engine failures, people have been killed by flying debris. It's a very dangerous thing to happen, and it is not supposed to be able to happen. It is a serious incident that can lead to loss of life and/or the loss of the aircraft. Thankfully that did not happen here, but there is no doubt that this was a newsworthy event.

(Edit: reading this back it sounds a little like I'm arguing with you; I'm actually agreeing with you and refuting the person you're responding to.)

[Edited 2010-11-03 23:28:58]

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: flyorski
Posted 2010-11-03 23:30:39 and read 90763 times.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 95):
Thankfully that did not happen here, but there is no doubt that this was a newsworthy event.

  

Absolutely! Very well put, any un-contained engine failure is a serious event and should be treated as such.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2010-11-03 23:32:58 and read 90097 times.

Well I guess LAX is going to be a nice QF A380 parking lot.

We have 2 on the ground now that I presume are getting cancelled, and should have two inbounds in the morning.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Zkpilot
Posted 2010-11-03 23:34:51 and read 89836 times.

QF has announced that ALL A380s will be grounded pending investigation to determine if safe to resume. QF has 7 IIRC.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Swallow
Posted 2010-11-03 23:35:38 and read 90028 times.

The FAA issued an AD for the T900 two months ago, but is probably unrelated

Wear, beyond Engine Manual limits, has been identified on the abutment faces of the splines on the Trent 900 Intermediate Pressure (IP) shaft rigid coupling on several engines during strip. The shaft to coupling spline interface provides the means of controlling the turbine axial setting and wear through of the splines would permit the IP turbine to move rearwards.

Rearward movement of the IP turbine would enable contact with static turbine components and would result in loss of engine performance with potential for in-flight shut down, oil migration and oil fire below the LP turbine discs prior to sufficient indication resulting in loss of LP turbine disc integrity


http://www.federalregister.gov/artic...1trent-900-series-turbofan-engines

This T900 AD is probably related to the T1000 uncontained failure on the T1000 since both involve the IP

Industry sources say the failure, which is believed to have been uncontained, occurred in early August on a production 'Package A' model Trent 1000 engine that will power early 787-8 aircraft for launch customer All Nippon Airways, and has been initially traced to the single-stage intermediate pressure (IP) turbine

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ing-trent-1000-engine-failure.html

[Edited 2010-11-03 23:41:24]

[Edited 2010-11-03 23:42:25]

[Edited 2010-11-03 23:49:02]

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: KELPkid
Posted 2010-11-03 23:39:05 and read 89411 times.

Quoting 'Longreach' (Reply 93):
Sorry I missed the word QF...

All QF A380's suspended.

Seems like a bit of a draconian measure at this point. Uncontained engine failures, while rare, happen. It isn't like A380 engines are raining debris all over the countryside...

I would imagine that taking 7 of the largest planes in your fleet out of service would have some financial impact.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Woof
Posted 2010-11-03 23:47:10 and read 89380 times.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 88):
AJ also said that QF A380 operations are being suspended until the initial investigation takes place.


No, it's only take-offs that have been suspended. All other flight phases appear unaffected  
Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 94):
"We will suspend all A380 takeoffs

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: jbrusnak
Posted 2010-11-03 23:49:23 and read 87865 times.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 100):
Seems like a bit of a draconian measure at this point. Uncontained engine failures, while rare, happen. It isn't like A380 engines are raining debris all over the countryside...

I would imagine that taking 7 of the largest planes in your fleet out of service would have some financial impact.

Much less financial impact than if a previously unknown flaw caused a more major incident. Can you imagine what a hull loss with loss of life would do to the 380 program at this stage of the game? Airbus is probably all over them to suspend service temporarily as well.

[Edited 2010-11-03 23:50:39]

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Woof
Posted 2010-11-03 23:53:34 and read 87586 times.

Which of the other carriers use the Trent on their A388s?

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: KELPkid
Posted 2010-11-03 23:56:44 and read 88090 times.

Quoting Woof (Reply 103):
Which of the other carriers use the Trent on their A388s?

Easier to count who doesn't   That would be Air France and Emirates...

Although I do believe QF have the distinction of being the only operator to use the higher thrust -842 Trent variant...

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: frigatebird
Posted 2010-11-04 00:03:28 and read 86864 times.

Quoting twinotter4ever (Reply 77):

Taking a look back at Reply 3's picture I would hazard to guess that the failed engine part (presumably turbine blades, discs, etc...) did penetrate the fuel tanks causing the vapour trail shown slightly inboard of the #2 engine. Looking at the wing shot from inside the aircraft you can see where there is protruding metal at the leading edge, however in the same radial area (from the rear of the engine) you can also see a less pronounced gash line and a little of what looks like a flow residue. Could have very well been leaking a substantial amount of fuel after the catastrophic failure. Any fuel dump port as mentioned earlier are located outboard of the engine.

This could have been much worse. I hope all this is not a sign of any potential design issue with the Rolls engine designs as of late. (though the 744 incident is on a much older engine design) You only used to hear this happening on CF6s from time to time. Hopefully just unfortunate coincidence.

Glad everyone arrived back safely in any case


Thank you for your post. If it was an uncontained engine failure and it caused a fuel leak, this may have been a narrower escape than I first thought... Concorde comes to mind. Could have been a hydraulic leak though.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2010-11-04 00:09:54 and read 86362 times.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 100):
It isn't like A380 engines are raining debris all over the countryside...

This one did...

Quoting etherealsky (Reply 91):

Interesting - why is that?

Probably because if there are manufacturing flaws, they will show up in the first several thousand hours of use.

In fact, in almost every engine failure related to the engine itself that I can think of lately, it's been RR. That BA 777 that missed the runway due to fuel icing was RR-powered, too. I haven't heard about GE engines causing these problems.

RR has some internal review to do, methinks.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Flying Belgian
Posted 2010-11-04 00:10:10 and read 86286 times.

Quoting Woof (Reply 103):
Which of the other carriers use the Trent on their A388s?

LH & SQ.

AF & EK are Engine Alliance powered.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: brenintw
Posted 2010-11-04 00:21:32 and read 85373 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 106):
In fact, in almost every engine failure related to the engine itself that I can think of lately, it's been RR. That BA 777 that missed the runway due to fuel icing was RR-powered, too. I haven't heard about GE engines causing these problems.

GE has had its share of problems with the engines on the 777 though -- AF has had quite a few IFSDs on its 77W fleet and I believe there was an AD (or similar) in effect last year for some time that mandated full-power take-offs on GE-powered 777s. There were also a couple of instances of uncommanded shut downs on GE-powered A330s (CI had one into HKG last year I think).

All engines have "bugs" in them -- some are just more spectacular than others.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Springbok747
Posted 2010-11-04 00:21:38 and read 85365 times.

CNN are saying the cover "fell off"...more like "blown off". Can't even get their story right..geez..wonder who hires these people.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/as....plane.emergency/index.html?hpt=T1

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: KFlyer
Posted 2010-11-04 00:23:58 and read 85613 times.

KE too is, GP. Though they are yet to take delivery.
IMHO, the grounding sounds like a PR stunt. Perhaps for 12hrs ?
In any case, we should be glad that the debris did not hit the fuselage ( and cabin ).
Does anybody know whether the C check done by LH included major engine overhauls ?
This is why I'm a GE fan  

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Panman
Posted 2010-11-04 00:29:00 and read 84553 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 97):
Well I guess LAX is going to be a nice QF A380 parking lot.

We have 2 on the ground now that I presume are getting cancelled, and should have two inbounds in the morning.

FRA - 1 (OQB)
LAX - 3 (OQD,E,F - OQF enroute at the mo)
SIN - 1 (OQA)
SYD - 1 (OQC)

pAnmAn

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: PITrules
Posted 2010-11-04 00:29:01 and read 84710 times.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 109):
CNN are saying the cover "fell off"...more like "blown off". Can't even get their story right..geez..wonder who hires these people.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/as...pt=T1

I wish the US media would have guest experts like this (linked below) when discussing aviation matters. Probably the best, most comprehensive real time aviation news reporting I have ever seen, given the limited information.

http://video.theaustralian.com.au/16...-Singapore?area=videoindex6&ref=nf

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: KELPkid
Posted 2010-11-04 00:30:36 and read 84964 times.

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 110):
This is why I'm a GE fan

Well, I hear the GE90-115B has the largest fan   

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: bigsmile
Posted 2010-11-04 00:30:48 and read 84559 times.

BBC have a report on this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11691197

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: AR385
Posted 2010-11-04 00:37:46 and read 83999 times.

From the first picture, the engine failure appears to have punctured a fuel tank.

1) How likely is it that an engine this new experiences such an uncontained type failure?
2) Does this reflect on QF or on RR?
3) From the pictures, the chances for a piece of the engine to have punctured the pressure vessel look pretty high. This could have injured or killed a number of passengers plus creating a sudden depressurization. It could have gotten very ugly.

It does seem like a very relevant event, and very certainly newsworthy,

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: etoile
Posted 2010-11-04 00:38:52 and read 83616 times.

Quoting brenintw (Reply 108):
All engines have "bugs" in them -- some are just more spectacular than others.

Problems that lead to commanded IFSD might be considered a bug. An uncontained turbine failure (which today's Trent incident appears to be based on the photos) is not a bug.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Baroque
Posted 2010-11-04 00:39:13 and read 83504 times.

Quoting brenintw (Reply 108):
GE has had its share of problems with the engines on the 777 though -- AF has had quite a few IFSDs on its 77W fleet and I believe there was an AD (or similar) in effect last year for some time that mandated full-power take-offs on GE-powered 777s. There were also a couple of instances of uncommanded shut downs on GE-powered A330s (CI had one into HKG last year I think).

Always dangerous when some type of equipment shows a problem, to assume that some competing item is flawless is it not?

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 110):
IMHO, the grounding sounds like a PR stunt. Perhaps for 12hrs ?

I rather doubt that. It suggests that QF and RR may have identified something specific that needs checking/fixing. Be patient, but not 12 hours. Aside from anything else, that would be lifting the grounding about 4 am Sydney time. We do work late here, but no not a release at 4 am.

All three problems were in the turbine area, two were in the IP and quite possibly this was IP initiated.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: AirGabon
Posted 2010-11-04 00:41:22 and read 83433 times.

Quoting brenintw (Reply 108):
AF has had quite a few IFSDs on its 77W fleet

Yes AF had many IFSDs with the 77W and 772ER fleet with diversions in the last 7 years to Irkutsk, Churchill, Azores etc...
But didn't ground the fleet because of these GE engines defects

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: EK413
Posted 2010-11-04 00:41:25 and read 83443 times.

I can't stand the bloody media!!!
The aircraft carried out a routine air turn back, dumping fuel while circling Singapore airspace and landing safely...
Of course emergency vehicles are going to escort the aircraft on arrival!!!!

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: XT6Wagon
Posted 2010-11-04 00:44:26 and read 82929 times.

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 110):
IMHO, the grounding sounds like a PR stunt.

I don't think it is. I don't know how long it will take to do the inspections they want, but clearly its alot safer to wait till you can inspect the engines rather than praying its a one time event. Past history with the 747 alone has shown the failure of just one engine can take down an airliner, no matter how many engines are still running.

I would agree with you more if it wasn't for the A380 still having "new" engines. A330 or 767 for
example, I wouldn't expect all grounded unless something stood out in the first inspections of the damage or the history of the engine.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: A480
Posted 2010-11-04 00:45:51 and read 83122 times.

I am flying on an SQ A380 next week. Knowing that they too use RR engines, I hope they won't decide to also ground their fleet... What do you think? Any chance that they would follow Qantas? Or they would do it only if mandated by Airbus or regulators?

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: flybhx764
Posted 2010-11-04 00:47:31 and read 82855 times.

If the A380 is grounded does that mean the routes go back to a 747-400 for the time being?

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: KFlyer
Posted 2010-11-04 00:48:36 and read 83373 times.

Quoting KelpKid:
Well, I hear the GE90-115B has the largest fan

I knew someone would pick this up.  
@Baroque so this is serious than it appears to be ?
@AirGabon But we never had an AF 77W engine cowling fall off.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Navigator
Posted 2010-11-04 00:49:39 and read 82726 times.

If it is just an engine failure it can hardly be described as an emergency landing. On the photo it looks like the plane is dumping fuel. If this is what it looks like to me it is nothing special at all.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Baroque
Posted 2010-11-04 00:57:13 and read 81923 times.

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 123):
@Baroque so this is serious than it appears to be ?

I doubt if even QANTAS know the answer to this as yet. But hot end failures are not to be taken lightly - well no failure is to be taken lighlty come to that.

You need a Lightsaber to tell us the likelihood of it being systemic rather than a one-off event. But QF clearly want to be sure on something close to that point.

It will not have done anything pleasant to the QF schedules. But then they do not want to risk something even more unpleasant to the A380 and its pax. As a frequent QF pax and a QF shareholder, well done Mr J.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: JQflightie
Posted 2010-11-04 01:02:13 and read 81509 times.

Quoting Panman (Reply 111):

We dont fly the A388 to FRA... so why is it there? Maintenance?

OH poor old Nancy Bird... some say she haunts VH-OQA......

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: sasd209
Posted 2010-11-04 01:03:17 and read 81134 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 112):

I wish the US media would have guest experts like this (linked below) when discussing aviation matters. Probably the best, most comprehensive real time aviation news reporting I have ever seen, given the limited information.

http://video.theaustralian.com.au/16...-Singapore?area=videoindex6&ref=nf

That was a VERY good interview and talk by the guest....you are correct, more factual and educated (informed) people like this are need to comment on aviation issues.
I'm glad the Qantas crew apparently handled this serious situation professionally and everybody is OK.... I'll look forward to the results of the investigation.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: slats
Posted 2010-11-04 01:03:41 and read 80945 times.

The media here in Australia is going into overdrive and a lot of it is absolute dribble.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: 777ER
Posted 2010-11-04 01:04:21 and read 80848 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 97):
LAX is going to be a nice QF A380 parking lot

How will QF's affected pax get to their destinations - via todays QF Australia B744 departures and via AKL on NZ and QF?

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: EDICHC
Posted 2010-11-04 01:05:26 and read 81099 times.

Quoting Navigator (Reply 124):
If it is just an engine failure it can hardly be described as an emergency landing. On the photo it looks like the plane is dumping fuel. If this is what it looks like to me it is nothing special at all.

An engine failure is one thing, a catastrophic uncontained engine failure with resultant airframe damage is much more significant.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: A480
Posted 2010-11-04 01:07:47 and read 80845 times.

SINGAPORE Airlines (SIA) said on Thursday it has no plans to ground its fleet of Airbus A380s after an engine failure forced a Qantas superjumbo to make an emergency landing in the city-state.

'There are no plans as of now to ground our A380 aircraft, and operations are continuing as normal,' said Nicholas Ionides, spokesman for SIA, which currently has 11 of the double-decker A380s in its fleet.

'It is premature at this point to speculate and we will await advice from the aircraft and engine manufacturers as the investigation progresses'.

SIA acquired its first A380 in October 2007, becoming the first airline in the world to operate the world's biggest passenger jet.

A total of 37 of the giant jets are in operation around the world, including six with Qantas. Emirates, Singapore Airlines, Air France-KLM and Lufthansa are the other operators. Another 234 A380s are on order from airlines, according to Airbus.

Qantas, one of five airlines flying the A380s, has grounded its fleet of Airbus A380 until they know more about the incident.

In Paris, Airbus, makers of the A380 superjumbo said the incident involving the Qantas Airways aircraft was 'significant' but covered by procedures. -- AFP

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Weebie
Posted 2010-11-04 01:09:30 and read 80603 times.

Part of an engine on a new aircraft has likely blow noff. I think this qualifies as a problem for Airbus and Rolls Royce.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Navigator
Posted 2010-11-04 01:09:36 and read 80765 times.

Quoting EDICHC (Reply 130):
An engine failure is one thing, a catastrophic uncontained engine failure with resultant airframe damage is much more significant.

When I look at pictures now it sure looks serious. The engine has had a serious failure and an engine eruption. There could have been damage to the wing... Worse than I thought...

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: sasd209
Posted 2010-11-04 01:23:31 and read 80018 times.

Quoting Navigator (Reply 124):
If it is just an engine failure it can hardly be described as an emergency landing. On the photo it looks like the plane is dumping fuel. If this is what it looks like to me it is nothing special at all.

I'm not sure of you noticed the after part of the engine cowling missing or the soot stains, or the punctures in the wing which may or may not have impacted the control surfaces or fuel tanks (which saved the fuselage from absorbing the impact of the engine pieces)....an uncontained engine failure is indeed a 'special' occurance and should be treated with all seriousness, and an 'emergency' landing is also indeed a quite appropriate response to the situation.

*edit* just saw your post above mine...I apologize if I sounded harsh, I sometimes forget not everybody sees all the news sources that I rapidly scroll through!!  Smile

[Edited 2010-11-04 01:26:46]

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: olympic472
Posted 2010-11-04 01:29:56 and read 78753 times.

Well, the Singapore news indicated that there are no grounding of the A380s.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...porelocalnews/view/1091329/1/.html

How much does QF know at this point that SQ does not? Is information shared quickly between airlines?

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Auchmithie
Posted 2010-11-04 01:31:51 and read 78586 times.

Quoting JQflightie (Reply 126):
We dont fly the A388 to FRA... so why is it there? Maintenance?

C Check at Lufthansa.
Flew LHR - FRA on 31/10.

[Edited 2010-11-04 01:33:10]

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2010-11-04 01:35:14 and read 78183 times.

All in all, this story, to me at least, really shows how resilient modern airliners are. A rather serious engine failure with debris flying into the wing and a fire, and the plane makes an uneventful emergency landing.

Quoting cpd (Reply 17):
But nobody knows that at first, it is sketchy details from a far away region, and everyone is desperate to get the first news out.

Not THAT remote exactly. We're not talking the middle of the Amazon. What bugs me is that the sensational headlines lacked the simplest of fact checking. Did they even bother calling QANTAS?

Quoting PyroGX41487 (Reply 62):
What could have caused that? Fanblade? I'm no expert on engine failures.

The fan is further forward. Turbine blade perhaps. Or worse, turbine disc. The really serious failures are often caused by the actual disc failing. One blade is not nearly as bad.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 115):
From the first picture, the engine failure appears to have punctured a fuel tank.

I think it looks to be too far forward to have punctured a fuel tank. The damage seems to be ahead of the wing spar.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 115):
2) Does this reflect on QF or on RR?

Too early to tell.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 115):
3) From the pictures, the chances for a piece of the engine to have punctured the pressure vessel look pretty high. This could have injured or killed a number of passengers plus creating a sudden depressurization. It could have gotten very ugly.

Actually it looks like the wing shielded the fuselage from damage.

A piece of debris the size of, say, a turbine blade would not make a very big hole. The pressurization system could easily maintain pressure. Of course, there would be quite a breeze.

It's not like in the movies where a window pops and everyone gets sucked out in some sort of hurricane-force vortex of doom. Yes, if you were actually sitting by that window you would be in danger, but the plane and the rest of the pax would be fine.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Swallow
Posted 2010-11-04 01:42:26 and read 78094 times.

The BBC just interviewed an "expert" from BGC partners who says the T900 is a very successful and important engine for RR that will power the 787 Dreamliner  

Other 'expert commentators' are saying this incident calls into question the safety of the 380 and also mention the SQ 380 engine failure where the plane returned to CDG. They do not seem to know that this plane has two engine vendors and the EA planes have had a relatively trouble free time

This incident comes soon after the parcel bomb incidents and people are jittery about airline safety, so there will be sensational reporting

[Edited 2010-11-04 01:47:13]

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: ua777222
Posted 2010-11-04 01:45:18 and read 77259 times.

Given that LH and SQ, who both operate with RR power-plants, have declined to ground their fleets, does this point to a QF-specific issue?

Glad everyone is ok. If RR is at fault in any way, do they pick up the cost or is it best to just run it through insurance?

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: JL418
Posted 2010-11-04 01:46:05 and read 77158 times.

Quoting A480 (Reply 121):
I am flying on an SQ A380 next week. Knowing that they too use RR engines, I hope they won't decide to also ground their fleet... What do you think? Any chance that they would follow Qantas? Or they would do it only if mandated by Airbus or regulators?

BBC World News said Emirates and SIA (no mentions of Air France and Lufthansa though) are carefully following the developments of the story, but aren't planning any measure yet.

I'm not a professional in this field, but could have it been a birdstrike? That'd explain the engine failure, wouldn't it?

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: fca767
Posted 2010-11-04 01:48:40 and read 76927 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 106):
I haven't heard about GE engines causing these problems.

Not sure which engine type this is but I remember it wasn't RR
http://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=2404

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: nicoeddf
Posted 2010-11-04 01:48:40 and read 76948 times.

The C-Check at LHT in FRA would not have anything to do with it...

...rather the IPT Disk which has been found at the ground. And the disk would not be touched by any A/C C-Check - and is certainly hardly possible to be contained...

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2010-11-04 01:51:08 and read 77120 times.

Quoting JL418 (Reply 140):
I'm not a professional in this field, but could have it been a birdstrike? That'd explain the engine failure, wouldn't it?

Too early to exclude any causes. Big bird in that case though. Then again birds do leave rather obvious "debris".

It would be quite an anticlimax for all the doomsayers if it did turn out to be birdstrike. 
Quoting nicoeddf (Reply 142):
...rather the IPT Disk which has been found at the ground. And the disk would not be touched by any A/C C-Check - and is certainly hardly possible to be contained...

Quite. If the disk fails you can forget containment.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: francoflier
Posted 2010-11-04 01:53:27 and read 76870 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 137):
Did they even bother calling QANTAS?

They still can't even pronounce it correctly...
Fact checking is for those boring channels that no one watches.  

Engine explosion + Incident prone airline + Very famous aircraft = News channels go Hollywood.
Let the circus begin, again.

I wonder how long they'll keep the fleet grounded for. It might be a while before RR comes up with any clue as to what has happened. Just a PR move, I suppose.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: nicoeddf
Posted 2010-11-04 01:55:14 and read 76257 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 143):
Too early to exclude any causes. Big bird in that case though. Then again birds do leave rather obvious "debris".

It would be quite an anticlimax for all the doomsayers if it did turn out to be birdstrike.

And on the other hand: A bird should in no case be able to bring apart a disk of any sort in the engine. Airfoils surely, but a disk?

Hmm...I am really interested to see any results.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2010-11-04 01:55:33 and read 76256 times.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 144):

I wonder how long they'll keep the fleet grounded for. It might be a while before RR comes up with any clue as to what has happened. Just a PR move, I suppose.

I doubt it is a PR move. You don't make PR moves that cost that many millions per day. If they were sure this was an isolated event, they would keep flying. The press would have forgotten by tomorrow.

Quoting nicoeddf (Reply 145):
And on the other hand: A bird should in no case be able to bring apart a disk of any sort in the engine. Airfoils surely, but a disk?

Maybe it was a formation of five albatrosses. No but seriously I find it a bit unlikely that any bird would crack a disk. I mean how would the bird "get to" the disc?

[Edited 2010-11-04 01:57:08]

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: airlinerart
Posted 2010-11-04 01:57:56 and read 76843 times.

Scary thought.

I took this shot yesterday at 12.03 of VH-OQA as she passed near Ipswich, Suffolk, England, and just about to pass over the coast. Sorry about the quality but it was quite a few miles away and I only had a 300mm lens.

Here is the scary thought (and picture) if the engine explosion had taken down the plane this would have probably been the very last image of 'QA in one piece (in fact, come to think of it, it probably is at the moment). And I'm very very pleased that it won't be the last shot.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: ua777222
Posted 2010-11-04 01:58:55 and read 76072 times.

Quoting JL418 (Reply 140):
BBC World News said Emirates and SIA (no mentions of Air France and Lufthansa though) are carefully following the developments of the story, but aren't planning any measure yet.

Emirates doesn't operate RR Engines...

Quoting fca767 (Reply 141):
Not sure which engine type this is but I remember it wasn't RR

GE. In this incident, however, it occurred after revenue passengers had left the aircraft and mx staff were running engine tests after low power ratings during its JFK-LAX (and last) flight.

The FAA did determine, however, that the disks in these engines were faulty and did blame poor GE design on the accident.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Swallow
Posted 2010-11-04 02:06:03 and read 75223 times.

Airbus and RR are sending an team of investigators to Singapore. Obviously the investigation will take time so I presume QF will inspect all T900's (with help from RR?) before 'un-grounding' the planes.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: ua777222
Posted 2010-11-04 02:09:09 and read 75013 times.

Also to add, and I'm sorry if it's already been asked/answered, but doesn't RR have sensors that they can monitor at all times--even when an aircraft is in air? If so, they would have seen the indications on a possible fault as soon as it happened.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: noelg
Posted 2010-11-04 02:09:54 and read 75545 times.

Another RR engine failure resulting in an emergency landing.

I've said this before but this but it is becoming a very common occurence with their engines. Maybe more bad luck than anything, but they do seem to experience a lot of problems.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: JL418
Posted 2010-11-04 02:09:54 and read 75182 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 143):
Too early to exclude any causes. Big bird in that case though. Then again birds do leave rather obvious "debris".

It would be quite an anticlimax for all the doomsayers if it did turn out to be birdstrike.

Indeed it'll be. However, I think I've somehow overestimated the "power" of a birdstrike. Check out the pictures on this link: http://www.lastampa.it/_web/cmstp/tm...=1615&ID_sezione=&sezione= they're showing an Antonov 124 birdstriking some crows without the sort of damages suffered by Nancy Bird. Let's wait and see. However, media have gone bonkers here, every title is shouting that "World's biggest airplane hardly made it to land".

Quoting ua777222 (Reply 148):

Emirates doesn't operate RR Engines...

I know, but that's what BBC said.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: francoflier
Posted 2010-11-04 02:12:16 and read 74621 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 146):
I doubt it is a PR move. You don't make PR moves that cost that many millions per day.

I do realize it will cost them millions to ground the fleet, which is why I am unsure of what exactly will provide them with reasonable conviction that the fleet is safe to fly again within a timeframe that wouldn't cost the airline huge money losses.

Engine failure of this type usually call for rather lenghty investigations.

Plus, other RR operators don't seem too worried about it, and since Qantas has been under the spotlight a lot as of late, I'm just thinking that this is more of a knee-jerk reaction than an absolutely rational mesure.
...Not saying that they shouldn't, given the frenzy.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: keesje
Posted 2010-11-04 02:13:41 and read 75375 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 65):
To be fair, this isn't really that newsworthy of an event.

I think it is. It look like a serious uncontained HPT failure, destroying the aft section of the engine and fire making its way forward to the front engine. A big piece of engine punctured the wing. It could as well have found it way to the cabin. From the looks it reminds me a bit of the AA 767 engine failure (that was testing on the ground luckely). Even if a big bird goes in this shouldn't happen.

Quoting Navigator (Reply 124):
If it is just an engine failure it can hardly be described as an emergency landing

This one is so bad QF has no other option then grounding the fleet to see what happened.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: faro
Posted 2010-11-04 02:14:47 and read 74449 times.

Quoting noelg (Reply 152):
Another RR engine failure resulting in an emergency landing.

I've said this before but this but it is becoming a very common occurence with their engines. Maybe more bad luck than anything, but they do seem to experience a lot of problems.

Not any more common than other engines experience. Statements like "very common" carry very little weight in the present forum unless they are backed up by statistical evidence.

Faro

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: skairbus
Posted 2010-11-04 02:21:07 and read 73936 times.

Although, there could be a fault with the engine on this aircraft, I do wonder why these incidents always seems to affect Qantas... It could be coincidence but whilst Airbus and Rolls Royce will no doubt fully investigate the incident, I think some time should be given to looking at the standard of Qantas maintenance procedures.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2010-11-04 02:24:18 and read 73573 times.

Quoting noelg (Reply 152):
Another RR engine failure resulting in an emergency landing.

I've said this before but this but it is becoming a very common occurence with their engines. Maybe more bad luck than anything, but they do seem to experience a lot of problems.

As Faro says, what is "very common"? Do you have numbers.

Also even twenty per year compared to hundreds of thousands of flights isn't "common", let alone "very common".

Quoting skairbus (Reply 157):
I think some time should be given to looking at the standard of Qantas maintenance procedures.

I'm sure they will look at that, but there hasn't been a lot of maintenance on an engine that new.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: blackwidow
Posted 2010-11-04 02:26:22 and read 73542 times.

looks like another "D Duct" failure.....

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Cricket
Posted 2010-11-04 02:32:02 and read 72996 times.

I can't imagine how harrowing it must have been for the passengers, settling down after take-off and suddenly 'BOOM', aviation enthusiast or not, that would scare me shitless. Kudo's to the pilots for bringing the plane back and hope the investigation finds the cause of the failure.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Baroque
Posted 2010-11-04 02:32:16 and read 72999 times.

Quoting olympic472 (Reply 135):
How much does QF know at this point that SQ does not? I

If they have half a brain, not much. Time to share information. In any case RR probably does mx on both sets of engines. Certainly it does on the QF ones, see Joyce's interview on Thursdays' 7.30 Report.

Quoting ua777222 (Reply 139):
If RR is at fault in any way, do they pick up the cost or is it best to just run it through insurance?

No idea whose "fault" it is if anyone's but RR will have to fix it.

Joyce did not sound as if the grounding was for a short time. It is until they figure out what went wrong and whether it will occur again.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Baroque
Posted 2010-11-04 02:37:50 and read 72763 times.

Quoting skairbus (Reply 157):
Although, there could be a fault with the engine on this aircraft, I do wonder why these incidents always seems to affect Qantas... It could be coincidence but whilst Airbus and Rolls Royce will no doubt fully investigate the incident, I think some time should be given to looking at the standard of Qantas maintenance procedures.

Engine mx is by RR as you will find out on this link when the Joyce interview appears.

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/

The latest program is not yet up there, but in an hour or two it will be followed by a transcript of the interview with Joyce.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: jumpjet
Posted 2010-11-04 02:39:24 and read 73042 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 86):
Boy, this is going to make me think twice before boarding any aircraft powered by new-build RR engines for a while.

Oh dear, it makes me wonder how some people ever make the brave move to step outside of their door every morning!         

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: fca767
Posted 2010-11-04 02:41:34 and read 73005 times.

Quoting ua777222 (Reply 151):
Also to add, and I'm sorry if it's already been asked/answered, but doesn't RR have sensors that they can monitor at all times--even when an aircraft is in air? If so, they would have seen the indications on a possible fault as soon as it happened.

ah yes, here's that part in a video  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMfXdl4OpgY&feature=related

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Bongodog1964
Posted 2010-11-04 02:41:56 and read 72411 times.

Quoting noelg (Reply 152):
Another RR engine failure resulting in an emergency landing.

I've said this before but this but it is becoming a very common occurence with their engines. Maybe more bad luck than anything, but they do seem to experience a lot of problems.

This statement has the appearance of the front page of a red top tabloid

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Kaiarahi
Posted 2010-11-04 03:03:00 and read 70613 times.

Quoting noelg (Reply 152):
a very common occurence with their engines

Really? "Common" = occurring frequently (Meriam Webster). "Very common" = very frequently.

How many thousands (probably tens of thousands) of cycles do you think RR engines fly every day?

Maybe you could get a job as a journalist.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: columba
Posted 2010-11-04 03:10:26 and read 69995 times.

That is why I prefer 4 engines over 2

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: 328JET
Posted 2010-11-04 03:13:37 and read 69998 times.

What is going on with Qantas, Rolls Royce and engine problems in the last time?

First a B744 with uncontained engine failure, now this incident with Qantas and again Rolls Royce.


I am really looking forward to read the whole report.


Something is going wrong in the moment.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: ThrottleHold
Posted 2010-11-04 03:20:36 and read 69393 times.

L/E slats not deployed and landing gear doors remaining in the down position....looks like there was a knock-on hydraulic failure too.

The photo in reply 3 would also indicate to me that a fuel tank was punctured, hence the fuel stream from the top surface of the wing.

[Edited 2010-11-04 03:22:29]

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: nicoeddf
Posted 2010-11-04 03:27:08 and read 69261 times.

Quoting keesje (Reply 155):
I think it is. It look like a serious uncontained HPT failure, destroying the aft section of the engine and fire making its way forward to the front engine.

It clearly is not, as it was the IPT disk, not the HPT disk which is stated a lot earlier in the thread.

Quoting keesje (Reply 155):
This one is so bad QF has no other option then grounding the fleet to see what happened.

Is it? Like SQ and LH grounding all their fleet?

Quoting skairbus (Reply 157):
I think some time should be given to looking at the standard of Qantas maintenance procedures.

What would QF maintenance procedures have to do with a 1-st run engine, where an unaccessible part of the engine has failed?

Quoting blackwidow (Reply 159):
looks like another "D Duct" failure.....

Finally, some reason in this thread.   I agree...

Quoting jumpjet (Reply 163):

Oh dear, it makes me wonder how some people ever make the brave move to step outside of their door every morning!

True...
This thread amazes me once again. Supposed to be better informed a.net frequent readers post doomsday statements while bashing the uninformed press at the same time. Ridiculous it is...

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: garpd
Posted 2010-11-04 03:34:28 and read 68075 times.

Quoting columba (Reply 167):
That is why I prefer 4 engines over 2

Twin jets have returned safely from identical failures.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: alasdair1982
Posted 2010-11-04 03:35:54 and read 68220 times.

Can Qantas cope without the A380's in service at the moment? Judging by the press conference by Qantas, the investigation could take a while.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: cloudyapple
Posted 2010-11-04 03:37:34 and read 68231 times.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11691543

Is it me or does it look like the aircraft is sitting very low on the main gears in Picture 2? I know it is heavy but the doors are hanging very close the the ground.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: cloudyapple
Posted 2010-11-04 03:40:15 and read 67697 times.

And why are they spraying water (I hope, not foam!) into an undamaged engine?

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Dizzy777
Posted 2010-11-04 03:40:45 and read 67849 times.

Even QF engineers want an investigation. Well thats what the union is saying.

Here is the article.

EDIT: More pics here

[Edited 2010-11-04 03:47:09]

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: garpd
Posted 2010-11-04 03:42:35 and read 67620 times.

Quoting cloudyapple (Reply 173):
Is it me or does it look like the aircraft is sitting very low on the main gears in Picture 2? I know it is heavy but the doors are hanging very close the the ground.

Definately some loss of hydraulics. All the gear doors are open, inc. the NG

Does the MLG have some need of hydraulic pressure to level itself perhaps?

[Edited 2010-11-04 03:43:29]

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2010-11-04 03:43:50 and read 67560 times.

Quoting columba (Reply 167):
That is why I prefer 4 engines over 2

You may prefer it, but the statistics and the science do not support your argument.

Quoting 328JET (Reply 168):
What is going on with Qantas, Rolls Royce and engine problems in the last time?

First a B744 with uncontained engine failure, now this incident with Qantas and again Rolls Royce.


I am really looking forward to read the whole report.


Something is going wrong in the moment.

Yawn. Two incidents out of tens of thousands of flights.

Quoting Dizzy777 (Reply 175):
Even QF engineers want an investigation. Well thats what the union is saying.

Here is the article.

The QF engineer's union is posturing as per usual. They dislike the fact that QF outsources some of their maintenance.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: ktachiya
Posted 2010-11-04 03:44:13 and read 67500 times.

Reported on the top news here in Japan. Surprising that such a new engine would suffer that kind of damage.

Quoting 328JET (Reply 168):
First a B744 with uncontained engine failure, now this incident with Qantas and again Rolls Royce

Didn't CX have a problem with Royce engines as well in CGK?

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: ThrottleHold
Posted 2010-11-04 03:45:29 and read 67670 times.

Quoting cloudyapple (Reply 174):
And why are they spraying water (I hope, not foam!) into an undamaged engine?

Notice that the number 1 engine is actually still running, as evidenced by the stream of water being ejected from the rear of it. If the FADEC suffers a complete loss of signal from an engine, it will command it to continue to run at the last known power setting.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: ltbewr
Posted 2010-11-04 03:52:41 and read 66917 times.

This is a very serious event, one so serious that QF has to ground it's fleet for sound reasons. Fortunately, only the a/c was damaged, no loss of life or injuries on the a/c or on the ground. I would suspect that the improvements in a/c structures, engine cowlings and so on have made is a lot less of a potential disaster from flying engine parts.

Yes, this could be a one-off defect in one engine, but it could be a serious design problem. This will have a major pr and economic impact on QF, perhaps on other operators of the A380 no matter the engine installed on them. As apparently this engine will be used on the Boeing 787, it too may face further delays as to EIS.

I suspect the groundings will be for at least several weeks as the rest of the fleet is thoroughly checked, a possible cause is determined by RR, then who knows how long to correct. So what does QF do for replacement a/c? I would assume since they are entering their peak Summer and Christmas travel season, this could mean many fliers will have to be bumped from flights or moved to other dates. I wonder if QF will need to get some capacity ASAP. Do they or will they lease a/c from other operators?

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: MD11Engineer
Posted 2010-11-04 03:54:34 and read 66734 times.

Quoting nicoeddf (Reply 142):
The C-Check at LHT in FRA would not have anything to do with it...

...rather the IPT Disk which has been found at the ground. And the disk would not be touched by any A/C C-Check - and is certainly hardly possible to be contained...

Depending on the C-check package, it would most likely contain jobcards for a hot section boroscope inspection on the engines. But even with this inspection it would be almost impossible to see small hairline cracks in the turbine blades and the integrity of the disk itself can´t be seen at all unless the engine was taken from the wing and completely dismanteled.
I´m also sure that, if LHT did a hot section boroscope inspection, they´d have video footage and pictures to prove what the inspector had seen. They also would have attached a CD or DVD with said pictures or videos to the completed check package to be returned to the aircraft owner, in this case Qantas.

Jan

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: garpd
Posted 2010-11-04 03:55:43 and read 66615 times.

Quoting cloudyapple (Reply 174):
And why are they spraying water (I hope, not foam!) into an undamaged engine?

an attempt to clean out any possible fod?

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: nicoeddf
Posted 2010-11-04 03:57:38 and read 66681 times.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 180):
perhaps on other operators of the A380 no matter the engine installed on them. As apparently this engine will be used on the Boeing 787, it too may face further delays as to EIS.

How the hell do you come to your conclusions? It is just an engine failure. Not a pretty one, certainly, but WHAT on earth has the GP7000 or the TRENT 1000 to do with it? Have you any idea of design similarities between those engines? Or any idea in GENERAL about the Trent family design?

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 180):
I suspect the groundings will be for at least several weeks as the rest of the fleet is thoroughly checked, a possible cause is determined by RR, then who knows how long to correct.

Yeah...surely...

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 180):
So what does QF do for replacement a/c? I would assume since they are entering their peak Summer and Christmas travel season, this could mean many fliers will have to be bumped from flights or moved to other dates. I wonder if QF will need to get some capacity ASAP. Do they or will they lease a/c from other operators?

Well, right, the first time EVER an engine failed thats why QF has to lease in A/C ASAP!

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Bongodog1964
Posted 2010-11-04 04:04:12 and read 66029 times.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 180):
This is a very serious event, one so serious that QF has to ground it's fleet for sound reasons. Fortunately, only the a/c was damaged, no loss of life or injuries on the a/c or on the ground. I would suspect that the improvements in a/c structures, engine cowlings and so on have made is a lot less of a potential disaster from flying engine parts.

Yes, this could be a one-off defect in one engine, but it could be a serious design problem. This will have a major pr and economic impact on QF, perhaps on other operators of the A380 no matter the engine installed on them. As apparently this engine will be used on the Boeing 787, it too may face further delays as to EIS.

As SQ has a larger fleet of RR powered A380's, and has many more hours operating experience, any major design flaw would be likely to have appeared in their fleet first ? The lead SQ aircraft must be approaching 10,000 hours by now.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: cloudyapple
Posted 2010-11-04 04:20:22 and read 64646 times.

Quoting ktachiya (Reply 178):
Didn't CX have a problem with Royce engines as well in CGK?

Contaminated fuel picked up from Surabaya. That was a T700. Completely unrelated.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: huskyaviation
Posted 2010-11-04 04:24:24 and read 64270 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 158):
Also even twenty per year compared to hundreds of thousands of flights isn't "common", let alone "very common".

Maybe not common, but even twenty per year would possibly lead an ETOPS-approved twinjet to a downgrade of the ETOPS capability. Obviously the A380 isn't subject to ETOPS, but your example, even by definition not "common", would be a lot more than a "yawn."

Didn't Singapore experience an A380 engine failure last year out of Paris? They have RR engines too, no?

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: BOAC911
Posted 2010-11-04 04:31:24 and read 63823 times.

Quoting Quokka (Reply 50):

But today is the 4th November, not the 5th.

The schedule has been updated, since Qantas has taken the A380 fleet out of service. 744 will now be operating.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: babybus
Posted 2010-11-04 04:35:55 and read 63388 times.

That looks pretty terrible. Suppose we should see how much safer it is to have 3 more engines to rely on.

What if that was a twinjet? How scary would that be?

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: nicoeddf
Posted 2010-11-04 04:37:11 and read 63131 times.

Quoting nicoeddf (Reply 169):
Quoting keesje (Reply 155):
This one is so bad QF has no other option then grounding the fleet to see what happened.

Is it? Like SQ and LH grounding all their fleet?

Hmm...at least the last comment I take back...

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: gemuser
Posted 2010-11-04 04:37:48 and read 63453 times.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 184):
As SQ has a larger fleet of RR powered A380's, and has many more hours operating experience, any major design flaw would be likely to have appeared in their fleet first ?

Not necessarily. VH-OQA is QFs oldest A380 and my guesstimate is that she probably has around 6 to 7,000 hours, I suspect that is close enough that it is not significantly more likely to show up on SQ first.

You can follow the public releases by the Australian Air Transport Safety Board (ATSB) at:
http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/...reports/2010/aair/ao-2010-089.aspx

News releases are at:
http://www.atsb.gov.au/newsroom/news.../qantas-airbus-a380-singapore.aspx

It will probably have the total airframe/engine hours show up there. A four man investigation team is due in SIN early Friday 5 Nov, they will be assisted by SIN & Indonesian investigators. The Indonesian investigators are currently collecting the debris on the ground and some parts have been quarantined for the investigation.

Gemuser

[Edited 2010-11-04 04:40:43]

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: rheinwaldner
Posted 2010-11-04 04:43:10 and read 62881 times.

SQ delays its A380 flights...

http://www.singaporeair.com/saa/Util...Util/BreakingNewsPopup.jsp?msgId=1

The aircraft in LSZH can be seen in the snapshot-webcam waiting. Should have left already:
http://cam4.unique.ch/cam.cgi?p=17&l=1

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: garpd
Posted 2010-11-04 04:44:04 and read 62537 times.

Quoting babybus (Reply 187):
That looks pretty terrible. Suppose we should see how much safer it is to have 3 more engines to rely on. What if that was a twinjet? How scary would that be?

Don't see how the situation would be different.
Bang is heard. Cabin announcement made. Plane returns to airport. People get off. End of event.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: downtown273
Posted 2010-11-04 04:55:59 and read 61662 times.

Quoting rheinwaldner (Reply 190):
The aircraft in LSZH can be seen in the snapshot-webcam waiting. Should have left already:
http://cam4.unique.ch/cam.cgi?p=17&l=1

It's now estimated to depart at 1700 local, with a 6+ hour delay.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: tom355uk
Posted 2010-11-04 05:01:38 and read 61589 times.

Bored of all the anti RR and anti Airbus propaganda already.

(rantstart)

I'd really like to see the mod's clamping down on this S***. People just do not realise how frequently the world's press trawl this forum looking for sensationalist tidbits to feed the frenzy.

We've seen it time and time again, the same old guff from the same old faces. For those who are responsible, here are the cold, hard facts:

1) The A380 is the safest airliner currently operating.

2) RR do not suffer a noticeably greater proportion of IFSD's or Engine Failures compared to GE or PW.

3) This is not the first time this year Qantas have had a similar incident. QF26 suffered a very similar problem after take off from LAX, and that struggled to even get much of a thread on this site, let alone world wide attention.

4) Landing with one engine inoperative is really not an issue on an A380 (or a 747, for that matter).

(/rantover)  

Now the following is speculation, but it is (slightly   ) educated:

I would hazard a guess that this is not a maintenance related failure, more likely a material anomaly at the manufacturing stage eventually causing fatigue failure - something that happens all the time in aerospace, to ALL manufacturers. Check out any number of incident reports over the years for engine failures and I bet way more than half are due to this reason alone. I'd say 99% of these generate no column inches or general interest whatsoever. But:

THIS IS JUST A GUESS!

We will have to await the full report from the relevant investigative authorities in due course for a detailed conclusion.   

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: markalot
Posted 2010-11-04 05:02:54 and read 61003 times.

I'm not getting all the people trying to dismiss this incident as minor ... just another engine failure. Regardless of the mechanics of the issue it's a public relations nightmare when you see an engine on a modern jetliner fall apart.

So how often does this kid of failure happen? At what point would some of you who are dismissing this incident feel like it would be proper to ground a plane due to questions about an engine design? 1 failure, 2 failures, 3? Loss of life?

Just trying to understand why we should dismiss this incident as minor. I don't think it's acceptable for any modern engine to fail in that manner, but perhaps it's more common than I think.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: moriarty
Posted 2010-11-04 05:05:03 and read 60904 times.

Swedish newspaper aftonbladet.se have a movie shot by a passenger on the plane. Not much really, a short clip showing the wing damage from passenger view during flight.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2010-11-04 05:05:35 and read 60733 times.

An inspection seems like a good idea for those operating these engines.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: garpd
Posted 2010-11-04 05:09:07 and read 60457 times.

Quoting tom355uk (Reply 193):

1) The A380 is the safest airliner currently operating.

That one needs backing up. Lets see the "Cold hard facts" for that please.
I'm not saying it isn't safe, but it is rather improper to call it is the safest.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2010-11-04 05:16:29 and read 59668 times.

Quoting babybus (Reply 187):
That looks pretty terrible. Suppose we should see how much safer it is to have 3 more engines to rely on.

What if that was a twinjet? How scary would that be?

In this case it would have made no material difference. And I doubt the pax would have been more or less scared.

Quoting markalot (Reply 194):
I don't think it's acceptable for any modern engine to fail in that manner, but perhaps it's more common than I think.

Aircraft parts fail all the time. You might be surprised just how many airliners are flying every day with bits and pieces out of commission. This does not make them less safe.

While it is desirable that parts fail as little as possible, "never" is just not possible. One of the main objectives of airliner design is that no conceivable failure should alone bring the aircraft down. In this case that philosophy worked perfectly. A rather spectacular engine failure and the aircraft returns safely without even injuries.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 196):
An inspection seems like a good idea for those operating these engines.

Engines are inspected all the time. In fact, a quick inspection is performed before every flight, in the form of mechanics and pilots looking into the inlet. If it is found that, say, a disc failed, for sure there will be disc inspections. Note, though, that these engines have flown for tens of thousands of hours collectively already,

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2010-11-04 05:16:30 and read 59702 times.

Quoting tom355uk (Reply 193):
I would hazard a guess that this is not a maintenance related failure, more likely a material anomaly at the manufacturing stage eventually causing fatigue failure - something that happens all the time in aerospace, to ALL manufacturers.

Well, people reported hearing an explosion, and then a bunch of airplane parts were found. This report spread, as it would since there actually were a lot of parts on the ground. So there was good evidence to back up the idea that there had been a serious incident.

So, in this case, it's pretty clear why this became a big story.

As far as the crash reports, that's par for the course and A.net veterans know to wait for better info.

It is a big story as far as I am concerned. The last such spectacular engine failure I can recall was UA232, which of course turned out much worse.

As for a material anomaly, that would indicate a need to halt and inspect, I'd think. A big chore on these engines, isn't it? You can't just "take a look" and spot such a mfg anomaly.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: CharlieNoble
Posted 2010-11-04 05:21:28 and read 59313 times.

Quoting babybus (Reply 187):
Suppose we should see how much safer it is to have 3 more engines to rely on.

Assuming that the failure doesn't bring the whole plane down (tearing up the wing, fuel fire etc.). In that case, total disaster would be twice as likely in a quad. Something to balance against the prospect of the ETOPS jet not making it to a runway on one engine.

I don't know enough to say which is the greater risk...seems like an even bet. Just glad this turned out OK.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Baroque
Posted 2010-11-04 05:25:40 and read 58982 times.

Quoting 328JET (Reply 167):
First a B744 with uncontained engine failure, now this incident with Qantas and again Rolls Royce.

I am really looking forward to read the whole report.

Well not to doubt your diligence 328jet, but I rather wonder about that for a.net in general. The report on the RB211 failure attracted ZERO (zip, none at all) interest when I posted it.

QF Engine Failure - Prelim Astb Report (by Baroque Oct 25 2010 in Civil Aviation)
QF Engine Failure - Prelim Astb Report
Baroque From Australia, Posted Tue Oct 26 2010 00:55:13 your local time (1 week 2 days 22 hours 15 minutes ago) and read 641 times:

The prelim report is at
http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/1587731/ao2010066prelim.pdf

Nice pics and explanation of the problem. IP turbine shed its blades, and a few other problems that might be consequential. More to come later from ASTB.

Nice pics and diagrams.


640 votes of pass, not at all interesting now we have 197 posts before you can say "Trent".

Quoting Dizzy777 (Reply 174):
Even QF engineers want an investigation. Well thats what the union is saying.

Not entirely sure why since the engines seem to be maintained by RR.

Quoting tom355uk (Reply 193):
We will have to await the full report from the relevant investigative authorities in due course for a detailed conclusion.

True, wonder it it attracts the same riveted attention as the one on the 747 RB211 engine?

Lateline had a long not v informative interview with a QF A380 pilot although what he had to say about RR mx was interesting. And no, he was not proposing to ring them and ask as he thought "they might be busy"!!!!http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/

Again too early (twirly) for the material to be up on their site, but it will be there in an hour or two.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2010-11-04 05:27:50 and read 59017 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 198):
Engines are inspected all the time. In fact, a quick inspection is performed before every flight, in the form of mechanics and pilots looking into the inlet. If it is found that, say, a disc failed, for sure there will be disc inspections. Note, though, that these engines have flown for tens of thousands of hours collectively already,

Sure, but not an inspection that would spot the type of disc anomaly being bandied about. I guess with an uncontained failure, "disc" is what naturally comes to mind. I would think that if you even suspect such, you'd have to do the checks. There are pics that suggest a disc failure to the untrained eye, but are they cause or effect? Are they even of a disc failure?

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: tom355uk
Posted 2010-11-04 05:31:10 and read 58747 times.

Quoting garpd (Reply 197):
That one needs backing up. Lets see the "Cold hard facts" for that please.
I'm not saying it isn't safe, but it is rather improper to call it is the safest.

Hull Losses = Zero
Fatalities In Service = Zero
Injuries In Service = Zero

How much safer than this can you get???? So, by definition, 'Safest'.   

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 199):
So, in this case, it's pretty clear why this became a big story.

Well if this is true, why wasn't QF26 responsible for a worldwide media frenzy and instant condemnation of RB211 engines and the Boeing 747?

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 199):
The last such spectacular engine failure I can recall was UA232,

Not really relevant to be honest, and you know why. I doubt very much if the No1 engine had failed instead of the No2 on UA232 it would have been any more than a procedural one engine inop precautionary landing. More than likely it wouldn't have even been remembered 5 years after, let alone today.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: EPA001
Posted 2010-11-04 05:32:10 and read 58559 times.

Quoting tom355uk (Reply 193):
This is not the first time this year Qantas have had a similar incident. QF26 suffered a very similar problem after take off from LAX, and that struggled to even get much of a thread on this site, let alone world wide attention.


You are correct, but this is an incident involving the A380.   The airplane with the worlds most impact making profile. That Qantas has grounded the fleet is understandable, exactly because of this high impact making profile. I am happy nobody was hurt on this incident (also no one on the ground) and hope that RR finds out quickly what has caused this clearly uncontained engine failure.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: shankly
Posted 2010-11-04 05:32:57 and read 58187 times.

This thread is for the kids (who I accept may not have seen such an event) and the would be speculators that have trained on Air Crash Investigation

There is not a jet/turbofan powered airliner type flying or that has flown in the last fifty years that has not suffered an uncontained engine failure. As for engine manufacturers...I am affraid the limits of human endeavour, material science, manufacturing and maintenance processes and plain bad luck mean that every jet/turbofan manufacturer has had one of its engines delivered back to the factory shorn of many parts and upon reflection has found a way of doing things better. Thats why we enjoy unprecedented levels of aviation safety today.

Some cases end up in tragedy (United 232), some in utter relief (todays QF32) and some have the benefit of huge luck (the AA 767 at LAX)

The only sensible judgements at this stage is that the Qantas crew (all ranks) did a superb job, the A380 proved itself to be a robust airframe, Qantas has probably done the right thing in the short term by grounding its A380 fleet and the Indonesians under the falling debris were lucky.... I bet that disc made a hell of a thump when it hit terra firma

Look forward to the accident report with interest and wish I had a few 744's on the books to lease

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: miami1
Posted 2010-11-04 05:35:18 and read 58084 times.

Qantas has had hull losses and has had fatalities. heres the link. I think most reports regarding no deaths or aircraft refer to the modern jet age.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Qantas_fatal_accidents

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2010-11-04 05:35:51 and read 57919 times.

Quoting tom355uk (Reply 203):
Well if this is true, why wasn't QF26 responsible for a worldwide media frenzy and instant condemnation of RB211 engines and the Boeing 747?

A bunch of debris did not fall on people, and it was not reported as the crash of loaded pax jumbo?

I assure you, had it been reported as a crashed 747, it would have attracted much more attention, and there'd have been much more sniping at the airline and RR well before the facts came out that it was just an engine failure.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Desh
Posted 2010-11-04 05:36:17 and read 57756 times.

Any idea if the volcano eruption in Indonesia might have been a factor ? Not sure how close the plane flew to this ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn.../GA2010102603115.html?hpid=artslot

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2010-11-04 05:36:46 and read 57694 times.

Also, there was just a rather large bomb scare incident.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: miami1
Posted 2010-11-04 05:37:01 and read 57838 times.

and there was also this one in Mauritius
http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/v...&reg=VH-EAC&airline=Qantas+Airways

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: b707forever
Posted 2010-11-04 05:39:17 and read 57555 times.

Qantas are being smart in grounding everything until they are clear what happened here. Especially for PR purposes in moving forward. They're staking a tremendous amount on this aircraft and can't afford a truly serious incident happening. Short time loss will prevent long term disasterous loss. Good on you Qantas.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: CHRISBA777ER
Posted 2010-11-04 05:39:46 and read 57717 times.

This is far less dramatic than people seem to want to make it into.

Second or third stage turbine disk failure by the looks of it - judging by the size of the piece that let go there's no way you are going to contain it. It let go mid-flight, uncontained failure, so it punched through the cowling, taking a big piece of it with it. Tore off some of the cowling, and the exhaust cone etc - the latter is designed to fail under these circumstances.

So what do we know?

Engine one continued to run on the ground so that we can surmise that there might have been a FADEC issue, hence the drowning.

Debris from the number two failure punched through the top of the wing, so the burn marks on the cowling remnants will be the jet fuel pumped into the engine before they shut it down, burning off out the back of the engine, as it is designed to do. The surges of fuel burns would stop once the engine was shutdown. Until then there would be a series of loud bangs.

The "smoke" trail noted I would think would be fuel or coolant venting.

The hydraulic systems seem to have had a problem as the gear doors stayed down at landing - reports of sparks due to gear doors contacting the runway on touchdown: not sure about that.

So all in all:

One of the nastier IFSDs Ive seen but brilliantly handled and the plane did all it could be reasonably expected to do and more under the circumstances. You cant contain a failure of that magnitude in flight - full stop. The failure was so big, large scale damage is inevitable - and it went well in the end.

The issue here lies with the second or third stage compressors on the T900 - and something big letting go that shouldn't have. Cue much inspection of the diskage and blades on all T900s, but thats all. My guess is that it was a faulty component - fatigued in one of those one-in-a-million ways that is hard to pick up on the boroscope before catastrophic failure.

We shall see.

My congrats to QF and Airbus though - great job all round, no matter what the cheerleaders may want everyone to believe.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2010-11-04 05:40:10 and read 57495 times.

If this A380 hadn't been heard, and hadn't dropped debris over a populated area, and we hadn't just had a rather large terrorist incident involving airliners, we wouldn't have had the wild reaction imo.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: garpd
Posted 2010-11-04 05:40:21 and read 57493 times.

Quoting tom355uk (Reply 203):
Hull Losses = Zero
Fatalities In Service = Zero
Injuries In Service = Zero

How much safer than this can you get???? So, by definition, 'Safest'.

A little fact bending for sure. You neglected to take into account, how long has it been in service, how many passengers it has carried and how many non fatal incidents it has had in relation to the cycles and passengers flown.
The accepted and industry standard scale is "Fatal accidents per million cycles"

Don't cherry pick details then use a head bang smiley (Thus showing frustration) when you are called up on it!

[Edited 2010-11-04 05:48:00]

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Singapore_Air
Posted 2010-11-04 05:40:23 and read 57966 times.

SQ345 is getting its engines checked:



[Edited 2010-11-04 05:41:28]

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: tom355uk
Posted 2010-11-04 05:41:47 and read 57770 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 207):
A bunch of debris did not fall on people, and it was not reported as the crash of loaded pax jumbo?

Who has been hit by the falling debris? I can see no report of that, and surely that would have come out by now.

'Crash' erroneously reported, and cleared up within the hour, over 7 hours ago. But people are still going mental over it?

Shankly has pretty much hit the nail on the head to be honest, but    why let that get in the way of a chance to bash RR or Airbus????

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2010-11-04 05:43:33 and read 57265 times.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 212):
This is far less dramatic than people seem to want to make it into.

It certainly is now.

However, people heard a big boom from a large airliner headed out over the sea, and then a lot of airliner parts fell on them.

Seems natural to report this as a serious incident and to be quite concerned about that big airliner chock full of people.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2010-11-04 05:45:27 and read 57045 times.

Quoting tom355uk (Reply 216):
Who has been hit by the falling debris?

I didn't say anyone had been hit, and you know that. I'm not a reporter trying to sensationalize. It fell in a populated area. There's at least one pic of debris on what appears to be a porch.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: katekebo
Posted 2010-11-04 05:46:11 and read 56942 times.

Quoting tom355uk (Reply 203):
Hull Losses = Zero
Fatalities In Service = Zero
Injuries In Service = Zero

How much safer than this can you get???? So, by definition, 'Safest'

Wrong. Even a high school kid who took basic statistics would know that statistics and probability don't work like that. Concorde is the best example. Following your logic it was the safest aircraft in the world, until the Paris accident, when it suddently turned into statistically "unsafest".
The reality is that there is not enough data (fligh cycles) to evaluate the A380 statistically based on number of accidents / incidents.
The safety of the A380 is based on engineering analysis of potential failures and their consequences. And this type of incident should not have happened. There should have been enough engineering measures in place (in all stages of design, manufacturing, operation and maintenance) to prevent an uncontained engine failure. This incident clearly shows that somewhere in the process somebody dropped the ball - either RR in the design or manufacturing of the engine, or Qantas in maintenance, or Airbus.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: CXB77L
Posted 2010-11-04 05:50:37 and read 56491 times.

This may be a non-event for most peopple in aviation circles - fuel dump and emergency landing at an airport is nothing unusual. But for people who are not involved in aviation, they don't have the statistics, or the knowledge, about what is happening and how serious it is. Can we really blame the media for reporting this? Maybe they need to balance it with some information about how safe air travel is and at no point were the passengers on that flight in any danger, because the A380 is more than capable of flying with 3 engines.

Quoting tom355uk (Reply 203):
Hull Losses = Zero
Fatalities In Service = Zero
Injuries In Service = Zero

How many years has it been in service? Three. How many aircraft have had an unblemished record after its first three years in service? Hint: the A380 is not the only one.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2010-11-04 05:51:54 and read 56760 times.

Quoting tom355uk (Reply 216):
But people are still going mental over it?

I haven't seen anyone going mental at all. I've seen erroneous early reports, but mostly accurate info shortly thereafter.

Maybe you need to hang out at different boards or read from different sources?  

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: CHRISBA777ER
Posted 2010-11-04 05:52:18 and read 56542 times.

Can anyone tell me why a guy on PPRUNE has listed my user profile here on their A388/QF32 discussion on there?

Any ideas?

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: shankly
Posted 2010-11-04 05:57:26 and read 56031 times.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 222):
Can anyone tell me why a guy on PPRUNE has listed my user profile here on their A388/QF32 discussion on there?

I was wondering that Chris...maybe he/she is a secret admirer? The location is Thailand, so maybe if you are passing........

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: tom355uk
Posted 2010-11-04 05:58:02 and read 56093 times.

Quoting garpd (Reply 214):
A little fact bending for sure. You neglected to take into account how long has it been in service how many passengers it has carried and how many non fatal incidents it has had.

Don't cherry pick details then use a head bang smiley when you are called up on it!

Fact Bending?????

OK, if you prefer:

Hull Losses per year of service:

A380: 0.000
B777: 0.067
B744: 0.143
A340: 0.235 (excluding one terrorist attack on the ground)

Fatalities per year of service:

A380: 0.000
B777: 0.000
B744: 3.857 (excluding one stabbing on board)
A340: 0.000

So, they are all pretty good and very close. But, the fact remains, so I wasn't 'bending' anything. Just like before AF4590 Concorde was touted as 'The Safest' airliner, even though there were only 14 or so in service.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: CHRISBA777ER
Posted 2010-11-04 05:59:01 and read 55845 times.

As for the media reaction - its the usual thing.

There cannot just be a bang and an emergency landing - that doesnt sell papers. It has to be:

"there was a deafening crash and a blinding flash of flame, as the plane took a sickening lurch down. Passengers screamed and prayed their final moments as the brave pilot grappled with the controls, narrowly missing an orphanage and a sanctuary for sick donkeys"

Thats the way of the world. QF are one of the worst airlines in the world for this, as the Aussie press LOVE to slaughter them. Even when it is not deserved, they get a battering from their press. Even worse than BA for our tabloids.

Factor in the fact that the engines were some useless pieces of pommie crap, and the plane was (shock horror) not a Boeing, and it was never going to pretty.

In many ways this is the perfect storm - An A380, with Rolls engines operated by QF. Whats not to like lol

Ignore it mate - QF are still one of the safest airlines in the world, the A380 is still the most advanced and safest jet airliner in service, and Rolls still make very, very good engines. Nobody died, lessons were learned, and thats got to be a good thing.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: aviationweek
Posted 2010-11-04 05:59:30 and read 55940 times.

Watch Aviation Week's Max Kingsley-Jones discuss the Rolls-Royce Trent 900 issues here: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs...=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: nicoeddf
Posted 2010-11-04 06:00:15 and read 56343 times.

Quoting garpd (Reply 214):
The accepted and industry standard scale is "Fatal accidents per million cycles"

Very interesting YOU point this out. Let me make the calculation for you with the variable Fatal accidents = 0

0 divided by ANY number of cycles will be...*sound of drums*... = 0
Surprising, is it not?    

Ah well...as I sad earlier, this thread is ridiculous once again...

btw.: LH will definitely not ground their fleet...

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: CHRISBA777ER
Posted 2010-11-04 06:00:37 and read 56448 times.

Quoting shankly (Reply 223):

I'm back in London now mate. Couldnt believe it when I saw it lol

Ah well - i bet he is disappointed now - i'm not an expert and well out of my depth on PPRUNE!  

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: KFlyer
Posted 2010-11-04 06:07:09 and read 55513 times.

Is the ZRH cam live, or is the SQ frame still there, as seen at http://cam4.unique.ch/cam.cgi?x=31.00&y=-6.00&z=2&l=1&i=1288875675 ?

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Tristarsteve
Posted 2010-11-04 06:19:38 and read 54217 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 202):
There are pics that suggest a disc failure to the untrained eye, but are they cause or effect? Are they even of a disc failure?

There is a picture on Pprune showing half a disc lying in someones back yard.

There is a picture in this thread of a side view of the engine where you can see right through the engine. A slot about 10cm wide.

I would reckon this is enough to say that a turbine disc failed.

As no one would have worked on the disc yet on this low life engine then

Quoting tom355uk (Reply 193):
would hazard a guess that this is not a maintenance related failure, more likely a material anomaly at the manufacturing stage eventually causing fatigue failure

I agree with tom.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: jpiddink
Posted 2010-11-04 06:21:36 and read 53853 times.

Perhaps anyone on this forum could shed some light on the question how the temporary grounding of the QF 380 fleet impacts their schedule? I can imagine that they have said goodbye to some 744s upon delivery of the A380s, or have significantly expanded their schedule. Haven't got any insight however in the facts.

Does anyone know if there is any 'slack' or (strategic) wide-body reserve that QF could rely upon for replacement flights?

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: na
Posted 2010-11-04 06:21:49 and read 53857 times.

Quoting babybus (Reply 187):
What if that was a twinjet? How scary would that be?

Very, very scary. Better have three engines running than just one.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Dizzy777
Posted 2010-11-04 06:22:12 and read 54120 times.

Some additional pics

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/glancevie...gine-part-falls-off-mid-air.glance

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Baroque
Posted 2010-11-04 06:24:51 and read 53546 times.

Quoting Desh (Reply 208):
Any idea if the volcano eruption in Indonesia might have been a factor ? Not sure how close the plane flew to this ...

Not unless Singapore city is covered in ash. Merapi is about 1 hr 20 to 30 minutes into the flight and I think they are diverting around a possible zone of influence. QF42 with SWMBO on board last week had 30 mins added to its flight time immediately it took off from Jakarta which I assume was to avoid Merapi.

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 230):
Quoting tom355uk (Reply 193):
would hazard a guess that this is not a maintenance related failure, more likely a material anomaly at the manufacturing stage eventually causing fatigue failure

I agree with tom.

Or possible wear on the intermediate shaft????

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: NAV20
Posted 2010-11-04 06:27:42 and read 53511 times.

Singapore Airlines now say that they are 'delaying' flights by their A380s too. I believe they have 11 in service, all with RR engines.

"Our engine manufacturer Rolls Royce and aircraft manufacturer Airbus have advised us to conduct precautionary technical checks on our A380 aircraft, following today's incident involving another operator's A380," Singapore Airlines said in a statement late Thursday evening."

Posted 2010-11-04 06:32:40 and read 53060 times.

Kudos to the crew. They, once again, gave us a display of praiseworthy airmanship and saved the day.

I'm sure Michael O'Leary would have been absolutely fine with being on this flight with only one pilot...
  
But I digress.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Baroque
Posted 2010-11-04 06:37:44 and read 52410 times.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 236):
I'm sure Michael O'Leary would have been absolutely fine with being on this flight with only one pilot

What would he say to find they had 3 on the flight deck and at least another two available on the plane?

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: mauriceb
Posted 2010-11-04 06:45:30 and read 51771 times.

Funny to see is that SQ is clearly doing some engine checks at ZRH: http://cam4.unique.ch/cam.cgi?x=31.00&y=-6.00&z=2&l=1&i=1288878155

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: eggync
Posted 2010-11-04 06:57:12 and read 50434 times.

hmmm, this is serious......
at first I thoguht its just another engine failure......... but an engine blown up during the flight!!

From these pictures, it really looks scary that not only did the engine blown up and catch fire (from the engine photo), but significant size of the high velocity projectile penetrate the left wing!!! From the photo taken inside the aircraft, it looks like that is should have penetrate the wing tank............ and the large extruding metal from the leading edge... surprised me that the leading edge slat is not damaged at all!

I recall seeing on Discovery channel how engine manufactuer test turbine failure and whether or not the debree can be contained! Everything they did was on the ground, off the aircraft, on a fix platform with no forward velocity/momentum. I wonder if the failre mode would behave the same if they do the same test on a high speed moving platform!! (such as an incident here)

Anyways, everyone is safe, that is the most important thing!

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: kalvado
Posted 2010-11-04 07:00:20 and read 49974 times.

Quoting tom355uk (Reply 224):
Fact Bending?????

Yes it is.
As far as I remember, some very crude industry average is 1 hull loss over 3 million cycles.
How many cycles did 380 do so far? This frame is among older ones; it got 6-7K hours as someone mentioned; 1000 cycles give or take.
How many frames are flying around, less than 50 with less than 50k cycles total?
There should be MUCH less than 1 close call at this point.
I'm not an expert to say how serious accident was; however if there was a 5% chance that debris could hit something important (AA 767 in LAX - style), things don't look that nice any more.

Actually, given current program scale and low cycles on long haul birds - there should be less than 1 hull loss over entire program lifetime for the plane to be statistically as safe as industry average..

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: alasdair1982
Posted 2010-11-04 07:06:57 and read 49398 times.

Quoting tom355uk (Reply 224):
Hull Losses per year of service:

A380: 0.000
B777: 0.067
B744: 0.143

Why did you not attribute several 747 hull losses to human error (i.e Tenerife), terrorist attacks, and even being shot down?

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: moriarty
Posted 2010-11-04 07:07:54 and read 49358 times.

Quoting kalvado (Reply 240):
As far as I remember, some very crude industry average is 1 hull loss over 3 million cycles.
How many cycles did 380 do so far? This frame is among older ones; it got 6-7K hours as someone mentioned; 1000 cycles give or take.
How many frames are flying around, less than 50 with less than 50k cycles total?
There should be MUCH less than 1 close call at this point.

I think this is pretty much the key issue, if the stats are not out of the blue (not saying they are). Media really overreacts and blow things out of proportions, but I'd say this is quite extra ordinary with the above in mind. And of course worlds biggest airliners will create headlines at this pretty early stage of its career.

I truly hope RR and Airbus can sort things out!

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2010-11-04 07:14:36 and read 48651 times.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 201):
Quoting Dizzy777 (Reply 174):
Even QF engineers want an investigation. Well thats what the union is saying.

Not entirely sure why since the engines seem to be maintained by RR.
QF engineers union is posturing as part of a campaign to get maintenance back in-house at QANTAS. As of now, some maintenance is performed by such dodgy outfits as Lufthansa Technic and Cathay Pacific. Yes, I am being sarcastic.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 225):
As for the media reaction - its the usual thing.

There cannot just be a bang and an emergency landing - that doesnt sell papers. It has to be:

"there was a deafening crash and a blinding flash of flame, as the plane took a sickening lurch down. Passengers screamed and prayed their final moments as the brave pilot grappled with the controls, narrowly missing an orphanage and a sanctuary for sick donkeys"

Thanks for the laugh.

Quoting na (Reply 232):
Quoting babybus (Reply 187):
What if that was a twinjet? How scary would that be?

Very, very scary. Better have three engines running than just one.

From a layman's perspective, perhaps. But the statistics, science and engineering do not support this claim.

There is really no evidence that a a modern aircraft losing an engine is more safe if it has three left or one left. The probability of two unrelated engine failures on the same flight is astronomically low*. If, on the other hand, they are related, the problem will likely affect all engines so the total number is moot.


* Try to name one incident with jet airliners where there has been more than one engine unrelated failure on a flight. Crew error and factors affecting all engines do not count.

Quoting eggync (Reply 239):
From these pictures, it really looks scary that not only did the engine blown up and catch fire (from the engine photo), but significant size of the high velocity projectile penetrate the left wing!!! From the photo taken inside the aircraft, it looks like that is should have penetrate the wing tank............ and the large extruding metal from the leading edge... surprised me that the leading edge slat is not damaged at all!

The leading edge slat is pretty damaged. There are holes in it!

The engine didn't really "catch fire". By that definition, engines are "on fire" all the time. As designed, fuel pumped into the engine after a failure but before shutdown burns up as it exits the engine. This is not an uncontained fire.

Quoting eggync (Reply 239):
I recall seeing on Discovery channel how engine manufactuer test turbine failure and whether or not the debree can be contained! Everything they did was on the ground, off the aircraft, on a fix platform with no forward velocity/momentum. I wonder if the failre mode would behave the same if they do the same test on a high speed moving platform!! (such as an incident here)

The documentaries almost always show fan blade failure, not turbine blade failure. Certainly not "turbine failure".

Compared to a ground test, the failure scenario would probably not change that much since, while the engine is not moving during the test, air is moving through the engine at the same rate as it would in the air.

The requirement is that the cowling needs to contain a BLADE failing. In this case it seems (note, "seems") as if the a DISC failed. This would be the circular bit which the blades attach to. There's no way the cowling can contain that kind of mass.

[Edited 2010-11-04 07:21:02]

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: rquesty
Posted 2010-11-04 07:15:35 and read 48669 times.

For what it is worth. This is not a minor incident. An uncontained engine failure can have very severe consequences (the manchester air disaster in 1985 started as an uncontained engine failure - 55 people lost their lives, and that plane never even got in the air !) The mere fact that QF has grounded its flagship airliner in this way, that all T900 operators are checking their engines all speaks to the serious nature of what took place. To deny this fact, is to close ones eyes to the possible.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: BA174
Posted 2010-11-04 07:16:09 and read 48484 times.

How will QF cope tonight with the usual round of A380 flights. I presume 2 or 3 of their A380 fleet will be stuck at LHR at BAs maintenance base?

Will additional 744s be covering the flights normally served by 380s tonight?

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Bralo20
Posted 2010-11-04 07:16:26 and read 48546 times.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 235):
Singapore Airlines now say that they are 'delaying' flights by their A380s too. I believe they have 11 in service, all with RR engines.

"Our engine manufacturer Rolls Royce and aircraft manufacturer Airbus have advised us to conduct precautionary technical checks on our A380 aircraft, following today's incident involving another operator's A380," Singapore Airlines said in a statement late Thursday evening."

According to another board Singapore Airlines has just decided to ground their A380 fleet pending investigations...

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: eggync
Posted 2010-11-04 07:19:30 and read 48364 times.

wow...... just read and saw...... left leading edge slat not deployed and landing gear bay door not retracted...... there really is a hydraulic problem!! With leading edge not deployed....... this must have been a higher then normal approach/landing speed perform by the pilots........ kudos to them!!

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: beeweel15
Posted 2010-11-04 07:19:51 and read 48305 times.

Quoting cloudyapple (Reply 172):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11691543

Is it me or does it look like the aircraft is sitting very low on the main gears in Picture 2? I know it is heavy but the doors are hanging very close the the ground.

They are designed to clear the ground when open on the ramp. On many aircraft from both Boeing and Airbus the gear doors are only inches from the ground

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: airbazar
Posted 2010-11-04 07:20:35 and read 48386 times.

Quoting jbrusnak (Reply 102):
Much less financial impact than if a previously unknown flaw caused a more major incident. Can you imagine what a hull loss with loss of life would do to the 380 program at this stage of the game? Airbus is probably all over them to suspend service temporarily as well.

Doubt it. Besides, it was an engine failure not a frame failure. In fact, by all accounts, the air frame seems to have handled this serious engine failure quite beautifully. Certainly not a PR move but the cynic in me thinks it was driven more by the lawyers than anything else. If a similar incident were to happen again, the law suits for psychological damages would be flying, no pun intended.

Quoting keesje (Reply 154):
This one is so bad QF has no other option then grounding the fleet to see what happened.

Or it could be something as simple as that.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 137):
All in all, this story, to me at least, really shows how resilient modern airliners are. A rather serious engine failure with debris flying into the wing and a fire, and the plane makes an uneventful emergency landing.

  

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: ACABlaker
Posted 2010-11-04 07:21:57 and read 48138 times.

I would not be shocked if any 380's with this engine are grounded regardless of company or safety record. The reason I see this going somewhat south for RR (unless it turns out to be some sort of attack) is the pictures and video showing large pieces puncturing the wing area. I'm no expert please correct if I'm wrong but with engines this would be considered uncontained failure?. 787 RR's just had this a little while ago and I'm wondering if there is a possible design issue with RR. Also coming to mind with pieces slicing into the wing is damage to the fuel tanks and depending on design hydraulics. This is more so why I see this becoming a tough day for RR, glad all is safe but lets be serious if those pieces are going through the wing like a can opener, odds are next time a fuel tank being ruptured and spewing gas over the wing and around an engine on fire is not a good scenario.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: solnabo
Posted 2010-11-04 07:23:40 and read 48035 times.

Don´t know if this clip is in this thread, a swede filmed sitting near the wing and it looks scary...

http://www.aftonbladet.se/

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2010-11-04 07:24:53 and read 48212 times.

Quoting markalot (Reply 194):
So how often does this kid of failure happen?

Despite what some people here are saying, not often. There are about as many uncontained engine failures in the air every year as there are major accidents involving fatalities. So to say it's "common" as some people are is the same as saying a crash isn't newsworthy because it's "common" for people to die in airplane accidents.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 212):
The failure was so big, large scale damage is inevitable - and it went well in the end.

This doesn't really support your point that it was "far less dramatic" than people are saying.

The engine failed catastrophically, sending debris into the wings and causing an apparent loss of hydraulic power and possibly a fuel leak.

It's basically blind luck that this plane didn't crash. If one of those punctures had been a slight bit to the left or right, maybe the outcome would have been different. If the act of puncturing the wing had generated a spark, the outcome almost surely would have been different.

This is why the NTSB and other investigative bodies consider uncontained engine failures so serious. And it's why Qantas has decided to ground their A380's.

Uncontained engine failures have brought down planes before.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2010-11-04 07:27:45 and read 47997 times.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 252):
It's basically blind luck that this plane didn't crash. If one of those punctures had been a slight bit to the left or right, maybe the outcome would have been different. If the act of puncturing the wing had generated a spark, the outcome almost surely would have been different.

Jet fuel is actually notoriously hard to ignite. Regardless of Hollywood tropes, it takes way more than a spark to ignite it.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: tom355uk
Posted 2010-11-04 07:29:12 and read 47845 times.

Quoting kalvado (Reply 240):
Yes it is.
As far as I remember, some very crude industry average is 1 hull loss over 3 million cycles.

Actually, no it isn't.

The industry, if they were measuring such a rate wouldn't use cycles, as it is even less accurate than the figures I posted. they would use fatalities (or serious injuries, or whatever) per billion passenger miles (or kilometers) flown. By your measure, Long haul aircraft will have a far higher fatality rate as they probably have less than half the number of cycles. A typical FR 738 can do maybe 8-10 cycles per day, a typical BA 747 maybe 2-3 cycles per day.

I bet the A380 has clocked up quite a few billion passenger miles. By a rough calculation using figures from the Airbus website I've got the following:

(correct as of July 2010)

Total Fleet Revenue Hours ~ 156,000.

Total Passengers Carried ~ 6,000,000.

Average Groundspeed per leg, lets be really conservative and say 400mph.

Total Revenue distance ~ 62,400,000 miles.

Total passenger miles ~ 374.4e+12. That is 374.4 Billion Passenger Miles.

Total Fatalities = 0

Industry Average (1995-2000) 3 per 10 Billion Passenger Miles.

Not bad really, is it?

QUOTE:

alasdair1982

Quoting tom355uk (Reply 224):
Hull Losses per year of service:

A380: 0.000
B777: 0.067
B744: 0.143

Why did you not attribute several 747 hull losses to human error (i.e Tenerife), terrorist attacks, and even being shot down?

Because if you look carefully, I put 744, not 747. I didn't want people to accuse me of clouding the figures by including the classics, So I based that on the 744 entering service in 1989 and there being 3 hull losses (One of which had no fatalities)

[Edited 2010-11-04 07:33:23]

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: rquesty
Posted 2010-11-04 07:33:51 and read 47423 times.

Let me add one other thought - the very act of an object striking the wing, can cause hydrodynamic Ram in the fuel tanks(a shockwave in the fuel which then breaches the tank) That is what caused the hole in the AF Concorde fuel tank when the tyre slammed into the lower wing. The engines hot gasses then ignite the escaping vapours. That didn't happen here. But it could have.

[Edited 2010-11-04 07:36:09]

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: spartanmjf
Posted 2010-11-04 07:38:42 and read 46874 times.

In the end, for me there are three observations at this early stage. One - the engine failed in a catastrophic manner and the Airbus wing took the hit with the aircraft landing safely. Two - the cabin crew handled a large number of passengers, by all accounts, well. Three - the flight crew handled the emergency by following training and procedures and seem to have acted in a truly professional manner.

Remember also that it was uncontained engine failure on the #2 engine of a DC-10 opeating as United 232 - a failure which damaged multiple hydraulic systems, rendering the aircraft almost uncontrollable. There was an example of superb training and professionalism of a flight and cabin crew.

Kudos to Qantas and Airbus. Rolls Royce has some examination to do.

[Edited 2010-11-04 07:40:39]

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Bralo20
Posted 2010-11-04 07:40:21 and read 46662 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 253):
Jet fuel is actually notoriously hard to ignite. Regardless of Hollywood tropes, it takes way more than a spark to ignite it.

Yes, but since the fuel is heated before being used, the ignition is much easier. You can actually compare Jet-A1 with diesel fuel, you won't get it to burn easily but when it's heated you'll get it to burn quite easy. This also due to the flamable vapours created by heating the fuel.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: 747classic
Posted 2010-11-04 07:42:56 and read 46576 times.

How many In flight shut downs (IFSD's) happened on the A380 until now ?

According following article (October 2009) this latest engine related mishap is the 4th IFSD of the A380/RR Trent 900, against no IFSD on the A380/GP7200 .(AFAIK no IFSD between October 2009 and today)


See : http://www.flightglobal.com/page/A38...ervice-Report-Engine-makers-views/

[Edited 2010-11-04 07:43:55]

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2010-11-04 07:45:55 and read 46244 times.

Quoting rquesty (Reply 255):
Let me add one other thought - the very act of an object striking the wing, can cause hydrodynamic Ram in the fuel tanks(a shockwave in the fuel which then breaches the tank) That is what caused the hole in the AF Concorde fuel tank when the tyre slammed into the lower wing. The engines hot gasses then ignite the escaping vapours. That didn't happen here. But it could have.

Concorde is a bit of a special case. The locations of engines and tanks are completely different from a 380 with engines on forward-slung pylons.

Quoting Bralo20 (Reply 257):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 253):
Jet fuel is actually notoriously hard to ignite. Regardless of Hollywood tropes, it takes way more than a spark to ignite it.

Yes, but since the fuel is heated before being used, the ignition is much easier. You can actually compare Jet-A1 with diesel fuel, you won't get it to burn easily but when it's heated you'll get it to burn quite easy. This also due to the flamable vapours created by heating the fuel.

Sure, but we were talking about fuel in the tanks, which is not heated yet right? Also, wouldn't the air/fuel ratio in the tanks be less than conducive to ignition?

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: keesje
Posted 2010-11-04 07:48:14 and read 46439 times.

It seems the major puncture occurred on one of the wing leading edge drooped nose devices, just in front of the fuel tanks.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1087/5146059462_4836b1e177_b.jpg

We can't see or say what really happened at this stage.

There could be more then one hole.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: readytotaxi
Posted 2010-11-04 07:52:28 and read 45536 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 86):
And someone at RR has some serious 'splainin' to do.

Rolls Royce share price has dropped 5% so far today.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: tom355uk
Posted 2010-11-04 07:55:47 and read 45503 times.

Quoting 747classic (Reply 258):
How many In flight shut downs (IFSD's) happened on the A380 until now ?

According following article (October 2009) this latest engine related mishap is the 4th IFSD of the A380/RR Trent 900, against no IFSD on the A380/GP7200 .(AFAIK no IFSD between October 2009 and today)

Read the article fully. At that time, 14 out of the 20 in service were RR powered, and they were running at 99.8% operational reliability. Two of the three IFSD's were non-basic (i.e. nothing to do with the design of the engine) and were based on extremely conservative parameter monitoring at EIS. The third was awaiting engineering analysis for confirmation of the problem, but as there have been no AD's you can only assume that was non basic as well.

[Edited 2010-11-04 07:57:30]

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: huaiwei
Posted 2010-11-04 07:58:55 and read 45025 times.

Quoting Bralo20 (Reply 246):
According to another board Singapore Airlines has just decided to ground their A380 fleet pending investigations...

So far the media reports says "delays" but not "grounded".

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...porelocalnews/view/1091408/1/.html

Earlier reports attributed possible delays due to checks done on aircraft.

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: OyKIE
Posted 2010-11-04 08:00:45 and read 44917 times.

According to the Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten, SQ has grounded all A380 operations as well. And they said something about LH might do the same. Anyone else got that info as well?

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: kalvado
Posted 2010-11-04 08:01:35 and read 44871 times.

Quoting tom355uk (Reply 254):

The industry, if they were measuring such a rate wouldn't use cycles, as it is even less accurate than the figures I posted.

There are many ways to look at things; and I totally agree that comparing A380 with E145 is apples to oranges. It's hard to find a figure which would take into account all operation differences.
Still, problem with pax-miles metrics is that loss of lives in accidents are not really independent events. Most of lives lost during major crashes when 10's, if not 100's people die at the same time.
With that, you can look at things differently: it's not that there are 0 casualties where statistics predict about 100.
It's 0 loads of pax where statistics predicts 1/4 of a load.

See, I could easily bend same facts in the other direction!

Topic: RE: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Emergency Landing
Username: Moderators
Posted 2010-11-04 08:02:16 and read 45096 times.

As this thread has acumulated more than 200 replies, it will be locked.
Please continue the discussion in PART 2:
QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, PART2 (by Moderators Nov 4 2010 in Civil Aviation)

The A.net Moderator crew.


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