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Topic: Alitalia And Its Regional Jet Order
Username: CRJ900X
Posted 2010-11-04 16:29:41 and read 4241 times.

Does anyone have knowledge when Alitalia will choose its new regional jet?

Source: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...alitalia-regional-jet-pitches.html

According to the article, an order was supposed to be made within a few weeks, is this still the case or has the decision been pushed to the new year?

I would think that the CRJ900 Next Gen would be the front runner, because if Alitalia is looking for 20 aircraft and if they picked Bombardier, they would only need to order 10 and they have experience with the type.

I do realize that Alitalia is also very familiar with Embraer due to its ERJ-170, but maybe in this competition the CRJ900 NG has the upper hand.

Also, I thought I read somewhere that Alitalia wanted deliveries by June 2011, and I would think that the Embraer and Sukhoi backlogs would be such that they would not be able to start deliveries so quickly.

Any insights or thoughts?

Cheers,
CRJ900X

Topic: RE: Alitalia And Its Regional Jet Order
Username: SurfandSnow
Posted 2010-11-04 16:52:38 and read 4166 times.

Didn't Alitalia order one of the Russian regional jets?

Topic: RE: Alitalia And Its Regional Jet Order
Username: CRJ900
Posted 2010-11-05 06:52:13 and read 3777 times.

Quoting CRJ900X (Thread starter):
I would think that the CRJ900 Next Gen would be the front runner, because if Alitalia is looking for 20 aircraft and if they picked Bombardier, they would only need to order 10 and they have experience with the type.

The article says they want to replace 10 x CRJ900 and six E170, so they would want 20 new aircraft.

Those CR9 and E70 must be less than 6 years old, so whoever wins the order may have to take them in return for selling 20 new aircraft. The E70 seems to have fallen out of favour with many airlines lately as they appear to be too small with only 70-78 seats.

The CR9 might fare better if BBD can refurbish the cabins with the new overhead bins and side panels, and LED-lighting so that it looks and feels more like an NG...? If so, they may only need 10 more, as you say  

Are 90 seats enough for Alitalia Express routes, so that the CRJ900NG has a chance or are the CRJ1000, E190 and SJ100 the real contenders?

Topic: RE: Alitalia And Its Regional Jet Order
Username: connies4ever
Posted 2010-11-05 10:12:52 and read 3640 times.

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 2):
The E70 seems to have fallen out of favour with many airlines lately as they appear to be too small with only 70-78 seats.

The E170/175 also have a much smaller wing than the E190/195 and therefore engine-out margins are much less. AC for example do not operate their E175s over the Rockies, but the E190s are OK.

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 2):
The CR9 might fare better if BBD can refurbish the cabins with the new overhead bins and side panels, and LED-lighting so that it looks and feels more like an NG...?

I believe the NextGen option addresses much of this.

Topic: RE: Alitalia And Its Regional Jet Order
Username: bjorn14
Posted 2010-11-05 11:29:57 and read 3516 times.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 3):
The E170/175 also have a much smaller wing than the E190/195 and therefore engine-out margins are much less. AC for example do not operate their E175s over the Rockies, but the E190s are OK.

I'm sorry I don't understand the "engine-out margins" and why would they not fly them over the mountains?

Topic: RE: Alitalia And Its Regional Jet Order
Username: laca773
Posted 2010-11-05 20:54:02 and read 3251 times.

The E90/95 would also allow AZ to fly some longer thin routes that are not possible with the CR9 or E70s. It also allows them to adjust capacity from the smaller E90/95s up to the A321s.

Topic: RE: Alitalia And Its Regional Jet Order
Username: connies4ever
Posted 2010-11-06 08:18:35 and read 3030 times.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 4):
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 3):
The E170/175 also have a much smaller wing than the E190/195 and therefore engine-out margins are much less. AC for example do not operate their E175s over the Rockies, but the E190s are OK.

I'm sorry I don't understand the "engine-out margins" and why would they not fly them over the mountains?

Apologies. Operating on a single engine means a lower speed. With the smaller wing on the E170/175, less lift is generated, meaning a reduced max ceiling. Therefore the ability to safely cross a mountainous area with sufficient glide range to an airport is restricted. Lower mountains like the Juras, probably OK, but the Alps, probably not.

Topic: RE: Alitalia And Its Regional Jet Order
Username: joost
Posted 2010-11-06 08:56:00 and read 2980 times.

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 2):
Those CR9 and E70 must be less than 6 years old, so whoever wins the order may have to take them in return for selling 20 new aircraft.

Indeed, these are still very young aircraft. The CR9s are Air One Express aircraft, and delivered between May 2006 and May 2007. De E170s are delivered between March 2004 and July 2004.

All aircraft (the CR9s and E170s) are leased, maybe these were just short-term lease contracts that will expire soon?

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 6):
Therefore the ability to safely cross a mountainous area with sufficient glide range to an airport is restricted. Lower mountains like the Juras, probably OK, but the Alps, probably not.

I'd be surprised if that would be a problem, considering that Alitalia is operating the E170s on routes to Germany, like LIN-FRA, thereby crossing the Alps.


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Topic: RE: Alitalia And Its Regional Jet Order
Username: FlyAA757
Posted 2010-11-06 09:04:41 and read 2957 times.

I am predicting a bit of a surprise here...

I would place a bet on 10 CRJ900NG, 10 CRJ1000 + 5 options each...

SSJ is out.
E170/175 has higher operating costs
E190/195 is heavier/too large

Topic: RE: Alitalia And Its Regional Jet Order
Username: Steman
Posted 2010-11-06 10:31:10 and read 2889 times.

I have read on an italian aviation forum an interview to an AZ top manager concerning the Regional jet order.
They state that they need a 100 seater and will use the AF/KL expertise in the decision making.
They are considering the Embraer 190-195, BBD CRJ900NG/1000NG and Sukhoi SSJ95, although they mention other players (Mitsubisch MRJ among others) but dismissing them on the base of availability in the stated time frame.
A decision is expected for November.
In my opinion the E190 is the front runner, because of its very good performances and because the decision might/will be influenced by AFKL
However, political pressures might force AZ into buying the SSJ, which has a high percentage of Italian interest (Alenia Aeronautica) and might be seen as a sign of italian-russian friendship (Putin and Berlusconi being "close friends").
The declaration some months ago that AZ has placed orders for 20 SSJ was later corrected as a "PR mistake" from Superjet International.

Ciao

Stefano


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