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Topic: NYC Airspace Redesign To Send JFK Flights Over NJ
Username: STT757
Posted 2010-11-09 18:23:33 and read 6128 times.

The long awaited FAA NYC airspace redesign is going to be implemented this Spring, big changes will mean most JFK departures will transit through NJ skies.

Obviously this is stirring up debate;

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201...aa_plans_redesign_of_nj_ny_ai.html

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/11/...ign-could-put-more-planes-over-nj/

Topic: RE: NYC Airspace Redesign To Send JFK Flights Over NJ
Username: pliersinsight
Posted 2010-11-09 18:44:03 and read 6014 times.

"New Jersey Coalition Against Aircraft Noise"

Ha, there is a lot more in Jersey to be afraid of than airplane noise. How much noise could there be anyway in central Jersey. Wouldn't most aircraft be at or near cruise by then?

Topic: RE: NYC Airspace Redesign To Send JFK Flights Over NJ
Username: JohnJ
Posted 2010-11-09 18:55:35 and read 5929 times.

I live underneath one of those gray arrows in Connecticut and can report that aircraft noise is a non-issue. Lots of fun to sit on the deck with the 'nocs, though, and watch the parade on a warm summer evening.

Topic: RE: NYC Airspace Redesign To Send JFK Flights Over NJ
Username: Mir
Posted 2010-11-09 19:50:15 and read 5710 times.

Those departures are going to be pretty high up by the time they pass over NJ. Traffic on the roads would probably make more noise than that.

-Mir

Topic: RE: NYC Airspace Redesign To Send JFK Flights Over NJ
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2010-11-09 21:09:18 and read 5463 times.

I'm actually kinda disappointed that none of the new routes send planes over my house on Long Island  

I currently live just a tiny bit to the east of that left turn coming off the 4's and 13's. I actually do have planes occasionally flying right over my house, but usually they make that turn a little bit to the west. Doesn't look like that's going to change.

Anyway, these whiners in New Jersey should hear what a takeoff really sounds like! They're not going to be able to hear anything at that distance.

Topic: RE: NYC Airspace Redesign To Send JFK Flights Over NJ
Username: catiii
Posted 2010-11-09 21:17:46 and read 5418 times.

Quoting JohnJ (Reply 2):
I live underneath one of those gray arrows in Connecticut and can report that aircraft noise is a non-issue. Lots of fun to sit on the deck with the 'nocs, though, and watch the parade on a warm summer evening.

I second that, and we have the same summer hobbies   . We have a summer home on the L.I. Sound in CT, and noise is a non-factor. My kids and I though do like firing up the scanner and listening to departure and seeing if we can see the outbounds.

Topic: RE: NYC Airspace Redesign To Send JFK Flights Over NJ
Username: hz747300
Posted 2010-11-09 21:36:40 and read 5336 times.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 4):
Anyway, these whiners in New Jersey should hear what a takeoff really sounds like! They're not going to be able to hear anything at that distance.

I have a friend who lives right off the way in Newtown, Sydney, and when a plane takes off, you can't here anything, even a car alarm, for at least 15-20 seconds... It's awesome!

Topic: RE: NYC Airspace Redesign To Send JFK Flights Over NJ
Username: rwy04lga
Posted 2010-11-10 14:21:12 and read 4711 times.

If we have to consider EWR a 'New York' airport, they have to put up with our New York noise. I won't even mention the New Jersey 'smell' that we have to endure in Staten Island (ooops, too late, I did)

Topic: RE: NYC Airspace Redesign To Send JFK Flights Over NJ
Username: RP TPA
Posted 2010-11-10 14:50:19 and read 4629 times.

This is kinda like New Jersey complaining about the loud sounds of a music club opening up in Brooklyn.

Topic: RE: NYC Airspace Redesign To Send JFK Flights Over NJ
Username: incitatus
Posted 2010-11-10 14:57:55 and read 4601 times.

The privilege of living close to NY has a price. If they don't like it, NY should offer them a relocation incentive to upstate, all the way up there close to the Canadian border.

Topic: RE: NYC Airspace Redesign To Send JFK Flights Over NJ
Username: IAHFLYR
Posted 2010-11-10 15:01:30 and read 4580 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
Traffic on the roads would probably make more noise than that.

Now Mir, you know that these people don't hear noise they only see it!   

Topic: RE: NYC Airspace Redesign To Send JFK Flights Over NJ
Username: contrails15
Posted 2010-11-10 15:02:25 and read 4572 times.

If the people of Howard Beach can live with it, thats me included in that, then the good people of NJ should be able to suck it up.

Topic: RE: NYC Airspace Redesign To Send JFK Flights Over NJ
Username: JoeCanuck
Posted 2010-11-10 15:14:22 and read 4535 times.

They already have much to answer for with the jersey shore...they really must be punished somehow...

Topic: RE: NYC Airspace Redesign To Send JFK Flights Over NJ
Username: B6JFKH81
Posted 2010-11-10 15:23:21 and read 4480 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
Those departures are going to be pretty high up by the time they pass over NJ. Traffic on the roads would probably make more noise than that.

Exactly. I have been on many flight heading to the west or down south that have taken off and gone right over NJ anyway, and many of my flights heading back to JFK have gone right over NJ on their way in. The areas where the new overflights will be taking place probably wouldn't even hear the aircraft passing overhead as they would be well above 10,000 feet already, even higher depending on the departing runway.

Topic: RE: NYC Airspace Redesign To Send JFK Flights Over NJ
Username: airportugal310
Posted 2010-11-10 15:25:45 and read 4474 times.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 7):
If we have to consider EWR a 'New York' airport, they have to put up with our New York noise. I won't even mention the New Jersey 'smell' that we have to endure in Staten Island (ooops, too late, I did)

I think this post sums it up fairly well. Sometimes you have to take the good with the bad!

Topic: RE: NYC Airspace Redesign To Send JFK Flights Over NJ
Username: washingtonian
Posted 2010-11-10 16:08:04 and read 4342 times.

Could somebody explain to me in simple terms why this redesign hasn't been done until now?

Topic: RE: NYC Airspace Redesign To Send JFK Flights Over NJ
Username: catiii
Posted 2010-11-10 16:29:30 and read 4287 times.

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 15):
Could somebody explain to me in simple terms why this redesign hasn't been done until now?

Politics  

Topic: RE: NYC Airspace Redesign To Send JFK Flights Over NJ
Username: jetbluefan1
Posted 2010-11-10 16:49:05 and read 4229 times.

Does this redesign have potential to drop the strict slot limits at the New York airports? Airlines clearly want to expand, and anything that allows them to do so would be ideal.

JetBluefan1

Topic: RE: NYC Airspace Redesign To Send JFK Flights Over NJ
Username: STT757
Posted 2010-11-10 16:55:24 and read 4198 times.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 7):
. I won't even mention the New Jersey 'smell' that we have to endure in Staten Island (ooops, too late, I did)

Fresh Kills does stink bad, largest landfill in the world. It's in NYC though, not NJ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresh_Kills_Landfill

Topic: RE: NYC Airspace Redesign To Send JFK Flights Over NJ
Username: IAHFLYR
Posted 2010-11-10 17:11:06 and read 4149 times.

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 17):
Does this redesign have potential to drop the strict slot limits at the New York airports?



Probably not, you can redesign until the end of time, but without a reduction of separation standards from what we have today on a runway, or more runways and taxiway/ramp space to avoid gridlock you can't put more traffic into the airport. A redesign might possibly free up some of the dependency each airport has on the others in close proximity and smooth out the flow of traffic, but IMHO not dramatically change the slots.

Topic: RE: NYC Airspace Redesign To Send JFK Flights Over NJ
Username: B6JFKH81
Posted 2010-11-10 17:22:08 and read 4101 times.

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 19):
Probably not, you can redesign until the end of time, but without a reduction of separation standards from what we have today on a runway, or more runways and taxiway/ramp space to avoid gridlock you can't put more traffic into the airport. A redesign might possibly free up some of the dependency each airport has on the others in close proximity and smooth out the flow of traffic, but IMHO not dramatically change the slots.

Very well put. JFK needs slots because of the international rush hours especially. Freeing up airspace helps gets the planes out of the area once up in the air, but they still have to depart off the same number of runways.

One thing that I am seeing on the diagram is that it *looks* like the departures off of the 13's will now do almost like a left downwind departure. That would be interesting. Maybe that means more departures off of 13L?

Topic: RE: NYC Airspace Redesign To Send JFK Flights Over NJ
Username: IAHFLYR
Posted 2010-11-10 18:28:34 and read 3839 times.

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 20):
the diagram is that it *looks* like the departures off of the 13's will now do almost like a left downwind departure. That would be interesting. Maybe that means more departures off of 13L?

And I'm sure using the FAA's highly touted NextGen program (yawn) making the SID/DP RNP with possibly some RF legs tossed in for good measure to control the containment in the turn and the speed. If a large number of the operators are not RNP certified then the SIDS/DP go unused for the most part except for Jet Blue as IIRC they are RNP certified.

Topic: RE: NYC Airspace Redesign To Send JFK Flights Over NJ
Username: CGKings317
Posted 2010-11-10 22:10:02 and read 3613 times.

Here is a telling quote from the CBS news article linked from the OP:

Quote:

“We’re all still just a little bit scared,” she said. “When we see the planes low we’re thinking that it could be a terrorist attack.”

Perhaps that could be a result from living close to an airport? People need to understand that living in a urban area, near an airport, aviation related noise will always be a factor. Especially around New York City where a population of ~8 million and a thriving business and financial hub demands all these flights. If they do not want to hear all the noise, then they should move away from urban areas.

Me, I will take the sound of a 747 flying 200 metres over me any day of the week. On those days where I want more quiet, I will either go someplace else, or invest in ear protection devices.

My two cents...

~CGKings317  

Topic: RE: NYC Airspace Redesign To Send JFK Flights Over NJ
Username: aviationbuff08
Posted 2010-11-11 00:08:40 and read 3514 times.

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 15):
Could somebody explain to me in simple terms why this redesign hasn't been done until now?

NIMBY's type folks-------->>> New Jersey Coalition Against Aircraft Noise


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