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Topic: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: zainmax
Posted 2010-11-27 13:19:46 and read 20952 times.

An IL76 performing flight from Karachi to Khartoum Sudan crashed after takeoff due to fire in one of its engines and crashed in the cantonment premises of Dalmia Area in KHI.
Crew perished in the crash.

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: mrskyguy
Posted 2010-11-27 13:22:37 and read 20965 times.

Do you have any links?

RIP to the crew. I hope nobody on the ground was injured or worse.

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: crownvic
Posted 2010-11-27 13:23:54 and read 20973 times.

I was emailing a friend in Karachi when he heard it and ran outside. It was only blocks from his house ..Weird stuffllll

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: zainmax
Posted 2010-11-27 13:29:11 and read 20899 times.

Right now rescuers have recovered 2 seriously injured out of 8.
Its the Navy area which is not open for civilians.
IL76 was performing cargo flight#4412 from KHI to KRT.
Crash site is covered in flames yet.
No information about the fatalities/damage on ground.

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: bapilot2b
Posted 2010-11-27 13:49:59 and read 20647 times.

Quoting mrskyguy (Reply 1):
Do you have any links?

Reported as 'Breaking News' at the BBC, no link yet to a story however.

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: worldliner
Posted 2010-11-27 13:57:36 and read 20544 times.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wor..._With_Casualties_Feared_After_Fire


Thoughts are with the families

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: flynlr
Posted 2010-11-27 13:59:20 and read 20532 times.

found a link....
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/11...rashes-pakistan-casualties-feared/

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: NAS738
Posted 2010-11-27 14:00:20 and read 20497 times.

Just found this on BBC...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11855448

Seems like, from the report that it crashed in a partially populated area, and that some buildings may have been hit.

May the crew rest in peace! And lets hope no one else was hurt or injured.

Chris

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: zainmax
Posted 2010-11-27 14:08:31 and read 20395 times.

Injured gave an interview in serious condition.
2 under construction buildings are damaged.

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: mrskyguy
Posted 2010-11-27 14:20:08 and read 20189 times.

Forgive my knowledge of Russian aircraft (except the SSJ), but is the IL-76 underpowered and/or easily overloaded? In the video I've linked below, it appears that this aircraft could benefit from a JATO at HGW.

Video of IL-76 takeoff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If-Puo94pWk
*Please understand that I am linking this video for the purposes of my question only, and in no way intend it to reflect poor taste with regards to the incident which has just occurred. I am aware that the comments of the camera crew could seem in poor taste considering such, so please remember that this was filmed years ago in Australia.

[Edited 2010-11-27 14:21:44]

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: soups
Posted 2010-11-27 14:22:12 and read 20145 times.

A/C had 31 tons of relief supplies for the Sudan

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: sovietjet
Posted 2010-11-27 14:51:24 and read 19678 times.

The Il-76 takeoff vid in Australia was overlaoded

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: comorin
Posted 2010-11-27 14:58:05 and read 19493 times.

Quoting zainmax (Thread starter):
An IL76 performing flight from Karachi to Khartoum Sudan crashed after takeoff due to fire in one of its engines and crashed in the cantonment premises of Dalmia Area in KHI.

Zainmaxji, it is common for bystanders to talk about an engine fire in every crash, but is unlikely to cause to be a cause. The commentator on Dunya keeps talking about 'Engine me aag lag gayi' (Fire) but hopefully the CVR and FDR will tell us what happened. Very sad to hear....

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2010-11-27 16:27:53 and read 17961 times.

I've got this link.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_pakist...Bfc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDY2FyZ29wbGFuZWNy

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: BasilFawlty
Posted 2010-11-27 18:22:08 and read 16600 times.

Since everyone is providing links, here's another one:

http://avherald.com/h?article=433ef657&opt=0

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: Viper911
Posted 2010-11-27 20:49:33 and read 15358 times.

Quoting mrskyguy (Reply 9):
Forgive my knowledge of Russian aircraft (except the SSJ), but is the IL-76 underpowered and/or easily overloaded? In the video I've linked below, it appears that this aircraft could benefit from a JATO at HGW.

Video of IL-76 takeoff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If-Puo94pWk

Why people always Link the most extreme cases and make assumptions out of it? yes IL-76 is underpowered compared to today aircrafts, but if used properly it shouldn't have any problems, i don't see Russian air force IL-76s stalling/crashing on takeoffs. Every aircraft has it's limits, and when those limits are neglected, the situation can become dangerous. As sovietjet stated the IL-76 in this Australian video was overloaded, what a shock... any other cargo aircraft would behave the same, yes a 747 might take off earlier but that doesn't mean it's safer, it's still overloaded. IL-76 with a correct loading would takeoff without any problems..


back to this topic, RIP to the crew, and    to those on the ground, hope the plane missed the apartments. (A sad reminder of ELAL 1862)

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: CX Flyboy
Posted 2010-11-27 22:49:25 and read 14519 times.

What is it with Russian aircraft though? Is it common practice to overload russian aircraft so that they crash when even a single engine fails (My guess is "yes"). I know every multi-aircraft can be safely operated with a single engine failure but why is it always Russian equipment that ends up crashing? If it is such that Russian aircraft are commonly overloaded, when where is the oversight? Why after all these years of the same thing, does it still happen? If there is not enough oversight amongst these carriers then why are the countries not blacklisted more often by the EU or ICAO?

Does anyone know what the performance rules are for Russian built aircraft? Western aircraft have to be designed and operated in most countries to be able to sustain a single engine failure at V1 and clear the runway end by a certain height for dry and wet runways and then sustain a certain climb angle thereafter. Are russian aircraft designed to the same requirements?

Even watching Aeroflot depart Hong Kong with their 767 in summer, they are often so low passing the end of the runway that I wonder to myself whether they would be able to clear the end of the runway by 35ft having sustained an engine failure at V1. My suspicion on those days is that no they would not. Twinjets, even heavy longhaul ones are often fairly high at the end of the runway because they are built to be overpowered on two engines. This is so that when an engine fails and they lose approx 50% of their thrust they can still pass the end of the runway and meet the clearance requirements. When both engines are working, they end up fairly high at the end of the runway compared to a 4 engined plane that only has to cater for 25% loss of thrust with a single engine. To see a twinjet pass the end of the runway at the same height a fully loaded A340-300 would be is worrying. So, are western built aircraft operated to different perforance requirements in Russia or are even the Aeroflot 767s overloaded out of a first-world airport like Hong Kong?

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: na
Posted 2010-11-28 00:22:47 and read 13886 times.

If avherald sources are right, its this plane, 4L-GNI:


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Photo © Stelios Ioannou

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: Triebwerk
Posted 2010-11-28 00:50:33 and read 13636 times.

   This is awful to hear. I hope those who perished will rest in peace.

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: F9Animal
Posted 2010-11-28 01:15:14 and read 13425 times.

Quoting soups (Reply 10):
A/C had 31 tons of relief supplies for the Sudan

Very sad, and nobody is getting the supplies now.  
Quoting Triebwerk (Reply 18):
This is awful to hear. I hope those who perished will rest in peace.

Yes it is awful. Especially knowing that the airplane was out to bring hope to people that need it. Very sad day.

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: KHI747
Posted 2010-11-28 01:59:51 and read 12952 times.

Over the last one year KHI has seen a major surge in IL76 freighter activity.My house in Karachi is near the shores of the Arabian sea and i see low flying IL76 departing all the time on their way to the Gulf or Africa.The screaming sound of a loaded IL76 is absolutely un-mistakeable.

Believe it or not the planes flight path is normally directly over my house.The flying distance from where it happened to where i am is no more then 2-3 minutes.Officials here are saying the pilot heriocally veered the plane deliberately into empty land to avoid slamming houses and buildings.

Lastly here is an amatuer video taken by an eye-witness's cell phone (its been airing on all the news channels here too) and you can see how the ill fated aircraft is already on fire before impact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeFZqvCWv4Q&feature=player_embedded

God bless the souls of the departed and my thoughts and prayers for their families.

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: Aesma
Posted 2010-11-28 02:50:36 and read 12444 times.

RIP

Pretty impressive video, the plane looks indeed like it's burning, difficult to say if it's just an engine or more.

About the relief efforts, didn't some Pakistani provinces need them ? Or is the situation good now, where there were floods ?

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: pylon101
Posted 2010-11-28 03:11:59 and read 12226 times.

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 16):
What is it with Russian aircraft though?

Well, CX Flyboy, your "bold" manner of speech suggests that you are aware of details of MD-11F take off crash in Shanghai Pudong a year ago?!

Yes, it is always overloading and/or wrong CG.

Last update: The aircraft was owned by Georgian company "Sunshine Airways".
Had planned check 2 weeks ago. The crew had 18 hour rest.
Birds are rumored to be the cause.

[Edited 2010-11-28 04:08:32]

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: musang
Posted 2010-11-28 05:02:20 and read 11160 times.

Quoting mrskyguy (Reply 9):
Video of IL-76 takeoff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If-Puo94pWk
*Please understand that I am linking this video for the purposes of my question only, and in no way intend it to reflect poor taste with regards to the incident which has just occurred. I am aware that the comments of the camera crew could seem in poor taste considering such, so please remember that this was filmed years ago in Australia.

Not in poor taste at all. I'm not sure its relevant though. In context, the tower controllers' comments were actually pretty funny and added to the entertainment value of the clip.

There are contributors here with much more knowledge on "Soviet era" operating techniques than I, so can someone confirm the notion that there is an SOP for using a reduced take-off thrust and using of all the runway, reducing engine wear and the chances of an engine failure at its most stressed time? That Australian take-off video, although spectacular, may not be as scary as it looks. There are several IL-86 pics showing similar lift-offs over the far end of the runway. Sure, they may all be maxed out, or they may not.

Many operators (not necessarily Soviet types) use "Improved Climb" take-offs, which use a lower thrust setting, but use more runway and higher speeds (typically by 15 knots on a long runway) so as to end up with a better rate of climb over the first few thousand feet of the flight. This technique is a win-win, reducing engine wear, tyre wear, noise and fuel consumption during the initial stages. Are these IL-76s etc. just using an extreme form of this method? Maybe this explains the comments about the SU 767s at HKG?

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 11):
The Il-76 takeoff vid in Australia was overlaoded

How do we know that?

Regards - musang

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: b707forever
Posted 2010-11-28 05:57:11 and read 10600 times.

From the youtube phone images you can see it was more than an engine flame out from birds, it was clearly burning pretty badly before it hit the ground. RIP to all, very sad.

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: comorin
Posted 2010-11-28 06:00:40 and read 10794 times.

Quoting comorin (Reply 12):
Quoting zainmax (Thread starter):
An IL76 performing flight from Karachi to Khartoum Sudan crashed after takeoff due to fire in one of its engines and crashed in the cantonment premises of Dalmia Area in KHI.

Zainmaxji, it is common for bystanders to talk about an engine fire in every crash, but is unlikely to cause to be a cause. The commentator on Dunya keeps talking about 'Engine me aag lag gayi' (Fire) but hopefully the CVR and FDR will tell us what happened. Very sad to hear....

The amateur video shows the airplane on fire prior to crashing so it does appear to be true.

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: Tobias2702
Posted 2010-11-28 06:35:56 and read 10407 times.

Does anyone here has an insight into what airline the aircraft involved in this crash belonged to? According to most sources and Wikipedia, it was "Sun Way" or "SunWays Airline":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Way_Flight_4412

Quoting pylon101 (Reply 22):
Last update: The aircraft was owned by Georgian company "Sunshine Airways".

...but then there is this comment.

I couldn't find any references that such airlines exist. The images of the aircraft in the database list as under "Sky Georgia", and on the internet I found several discussion post claiming it was a "Silk Way" aircraft. At least the last airline definetely exists: http://www.silkway-airlines.com/

--Tobias--

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: Dahlgardo
Posted 2010-11-28 07:26:11 and read 10026 times.

Those nice sounding Soloviev D-30K engines have had several nasty uncontained failures in the past, this could very well be another case of that.

From the top of my head I remember a Tu154M crash in Iran a few years ago, and a the SU Tu154M write-off in LED.

I'm sure there are many other cases involving the IL62M/IL76


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Photo © Fyodor Borisov - Russian AviaPhoto Team

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: Severnaya
Posted 2010-11-28 10:37:50 and read 8071 times.

Quoting Dahlgardo (Reply 27):
From the top of my head I remember a Tu154M crash in Iran a few years ago, and a the SU Tu154M write-off in LED.

Remember that the Il-76 and TU-5 actually use different types of the D-30K, namely the D-30KP (Il-76) and D-30KU-154 (TU5M). So comparing above incidents with this one might be comparing apples with oranges and is therefor pure speculative.

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: sovietjet
Posted 2010-11-28 11:31:15 and read 7522 times.

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 16):
Even watching Aeroflot depart Hong Kong with their 767 in summer, they are often so low passing the end of the runway that I wonder to myself whether they would be able to clear the end of the runway by 35ft having sustained an engine failure at V1. My suspicion on those days is that no they would not.

I think you answered your own question. As you are talking about a Boeing 767 you can't go and say "what's with all these Russian aircraft". I'm not saying Aeroflot overloads their 767s however some more shady airlines might. This particular Il-76 is operated by some unknown airline registered in Georgia. You can make your own assumptions about their SOPs and how strictly they are enforced. My guess would be that they aren't very well. Although in this case the aircraft was already burning. Could it be birds? Sure. Could it be failure due to inadequate maintenance? Maybe. At this point we don't know yet.

Quoting Severnaya (Reply 28):
Remember that the Il-76 and TU-5 actually use different types of the D-30K, namely the D-30KP (Il-76) and D-30KU-154 (TU5M). So comparing above incidents with this one might be comparing apples with oranges and is therefor pure speculative.

True however they are de facto almost the same thing. The D-30KP/KU and the D-30 on the Tu-134 are quite different though. Also in light of the fact that this engine has been in service for more than 40 years in thousands of numbers then of course it would have some failures.

Quoting musang (Reply 23):
How do we know that?

We dont. But if I were to make a guess it probably was. No pilot "plans" to rotate at the exact end of the runway.

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: Numero4
Posted 2010-11-28 11:40:03 and read 7389 times.

Very sad, especially since it is the third fatal accident occuring in the Karachi area this year. Not a good period for KHI at all. RIP to the crew.

Quoting KHI747 (Reply 20):
Officials here are saying the pilot heriocally veered the plane deliberately into empty land to avoid slamming houses and buildings.

If the investigation concludes it indeed was the case, then I salute the heroism and complete selflessness displayed by the piloting crew. Very moving.

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: fanofjets
Posted 2010-11-28 11:40:12 and read 7386 times.

My thoughts are with the crew and the people in Sudan who so desparately needed the supplies aboard the aircraft. If the pilot intentionally veered to avoid a populated area, consider him a hero for saving lives on the ground, as well as earning a living helping people in need.

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: GRIVely
Posted 2010-11-28 16:13:14 and read 6344 times.

I wonder if the post-crash investigation will confirm the makeup of the cargo? It just seems odd that poverty stricken Pakistan having just sustained tremendous flood damage is going to be sending precious relief supplies to the hapless citizens of Sudan. Could also be military materiel to support Khartoum's efforts to destabilize the South's independence hopes. After all most of Sudan's oil fields are in the southern part and Khartoum's leadership doesn't want to lose that potential wealth. Just wondering.

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: cedarjet
Posted 2010-11-28 17:48:03 and read 6230 times.

Not too sure about this "Russian planes are underpowered / unencumbered by competent loadmasters" business. These guys may not have access to British Airways type infrastructure or training but they operate complex hardware in some of the world's most challenging places, so it has to be acknowledged that they are competent. What's more, they are doing it to make plenty of cash and are not predisposed to risking their necks for an extra 4,000 lbs of payload. I'm not saying there aren't "operational irregularities" but you would be surprised how normal these Russian / Central Asian airlines are. Planes are in OK shape, regular mx, pilots are highly experienced, home office ops very organised etc. Only thing I can think of that might make a Southwest 737 pilot blush is duty times.

Re Russian take-off profiles, yes Ilyushin in particular do have a shallow climb out, on the Il-62 it's to keep the horizontal stabiliser at the top of the fin clear of the wake from the huge wing. Plenty of power. Possibly the Il-76 is similar, because it is not a particularly underpowered aircraft (I am less familiar with this type, only flown on the seventy-six twice). The Il-86, which I had two great flights on just a few weeks ago, also has a climb out that makes an A340 look like Apollo 11, is not unsafe and has only had a single accident in three decades, a mechanical failure on a positioning flight. Surely Il-86s have made countless thousands of max T/O weight departures, some on hot days, high altitude airfields, windshear etc. It's just part of the Ilyushin charm! Odd that all Ils have it but not Tupolev, whose 134, 154 and 204 all climb like homesick angels.

Re engines, there have been a couple of uncontained failures on Russian types, but the trend is unclear - the Il-76 has seen a few, and three notable failures on the Il-62 - the two LOT crashes in the 80s and Cubana incident which luckily resulted in a successful return to Santo Domingo, where the aircraft presumably rests to this day. It's true Aeroflot had a lucky escape with their mid-air failure, but the Caspian Ty-154 that went down on an international service to Armenia may not have been the result of an uncontained failure in #2, as has been widely supposed. My sources in Iran tell me Caspian is owned by the army and regularly carries arms on passenger flights. So in Iranian aviation circles, the widely-held assumption is that a shipment of arms to Armenia blew up in flight.

I agree that "aid" to Sudan could easily mean arms, btw.

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: prebennorholm
Posted 2010-11-28 18:45:03 and read 6153 times.

Quoting GRIVely (Reply 32):
It just seems odd that poverty stricken Pakistan having just sustained tremendous flood damage is going to be sending precious relief supplies to the hapless citizens of Sudan. Could also be military materiel to support Khartoum's efforts to destabilize the South's independence hopes.

I was thinking the same thing, but we can only make our individual guesses.

But then we don't know if the flight originated in Karachi, or it just made a fuel stop there. If the latter is the case, then it opens for new guesses.

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: sovietjet
Posted 2010-11-28 22:00:43 and read 5981 times.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 33):
Re Russian take-off profiles, yes Ilyushin in particular do have a shallow climb out, on the Il-62 it's to keep the horizontal stabiliser at the top of the fin clear of the wake from the huge wing. Plenty of power. Possibly the Il-76 is similar, because it is not a particularly underpowered aircraft (I am less familiar with this type, only flown on the seventy-six twice). The Il-86, which I had two great flights on just a few weeks ago, also has a climb out that makes an A340 look like Apollo 11, is not unsafe and has only had a single accident in three decades, a mechanical failure on a positioning flight. Surely Il-86s have made countless thousands of max T/O weight departures, some on hot days, high altitude airfields, windshear etc. It's just part of the Ilyushin charm! Odd that all Ils have it but not Tupolev, whose 134, 154 and 204 all climb like homesick angels.

The Tu-154 has a nice thrust/max weight ratio. The trend you are noticing is correct, but it is partly because of the design philosophies of the manufacturer. Generally Tupolev had a "overinsure" aircraft design policy as can be seen by the higher ratios and other things such as his landing gear design. Ilyushin on the other hand wasn't unless it was really necessary(Il-76). Check out the ratios of max thrust vs max takeoff weight for various aircraft you will see that almost all Tupolev designs are above 0.30 while Ilyushin struggles to keep it above 0.26. And you can see that in fact the Il-76 has the best performance. I've also included some comparable Western aircraft for reference.


Tu-154 (early version, NK-8-2 engines): 0.32
Tu-154B-2 (NK-8-2U engines): 0.328
Tu-154M (with D-30KU-154 series 2 engines): 0.315
Tu-134 (early version, with D-30 series 1): 0.309
Tu-134A (with D-30 series 2): 0.286
Tu-134A-3/B-3 (with D-30 series 3): 0.283
Tu-204 (with PS-90): 0.31
Tu-204 (with Rolls Royce engines): 0.369

Il-62 (early version with NK-8-2 engines): 0.241
Il-62 (with NK-8-4): 0.26
Il-62M (with D-30KU): 0.266
Il-76T/M (with D-30KP): 0.282
Il-76TD/MD (with D-30KP series 2): 0.263
Il-86: 0.242
Il-96-300: 0.256

A-340-200/300: 0.206-0.223
DC-9-50: 0.264
VC-10: 0.269
Boeing 757-200: 0.287-0.34

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: JoeCanuck
Posted 2010-11-29 01:56:39 and read 5744 times.

I suggest creating a new thread, (perhaps in tech ops), to discuss the very interesting topic of Russian/Soviet planes.

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: 777way
Posted 2010-11-29 06:45:29 and read 5497 times.

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 26):
Does anyone here has an insight into what airline the aircraft involved in this crash belonged to? According to most sources and Wikipedia, it was "Sun Way" or "SunWays Airline":

I heard its leased or charterd from Russia by Georgia's SunWay.

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: warden145
Posted 2010-11-29 13:10:41 and read 5225 times.

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 35):
Check out the ratios of max thrust vs max takeoff weight for various aircraft you will see that almost all Tupolev designs are above 0.30 while Ilyushin struggles to keep it above 0.26. And you can see that in fact the Il-76 has the best performance. I've also included some comparable Western aircraft for reference.


Tu-154 (early version, NK-8-2 engines): 0.32
Tu-154B-2 (NK-8-2U engines): 0.328
Tu-154M (with D-30KU-154 series 2 engines): 0.315
Tu-134 (early version, with D-30 series 1): 0.309
Tu-134A (with D-30 series 2): 0.286
Tu-134A-3/B-3 (with D-30 series 3): 0.283
Tu-204 (with PS-90): 0.31
Tu-204 (with Rolls Royce engines): 0.369

Il-62 (early version with NK-8-2 engines): 0.241
Il-62 (with NK-8-4): 0.26
Il-62M (with D-30KU): 0.266
Il-76T/M (with D-30KP): 0.282
Il-76TD/MD (with D-30KP series 2): 0.263
Il-86: 0.242
Il-96-300: 0.256

A-340-200/300: 0.206-0.223
DC-9-50: 0.264
VC-10: 0.269
Boeing 757-200: 0.287-0.34

Sorry for veering a bit further off-topic, but given that they were designed around the same time and for similar purposes, how does the 727 compare to the Tu-154 in terms of thrust/max takeoff weight ratio?

May the Il-76 crew rest in peace  

Topic: RE: IL76 Crash In Karachi
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2010-11-29 17:35:37 and read 5027 times.

Quoting warden145 (Reply 38):
how does the 727 compare to the Tu-154 in terms of thrust/max takeoff weight ratio?

727-200 Advanced with heaviest MTOW option (209,500 lbs, only a few were built with that option) and most powerful JT8D-17R engine option (17,400 lbs.) - ratio 0.249.

Original (non-Adv) 727-200 (MTOW 173,000 lbs) with JT8D-9 engines (14,500 lbs) - ratio 0.251.


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