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Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: AlitaliaDC10
Posted 2011-01-13 15:16:54 and read 35098 times.

QF has just confirmed DFW services and unfortunately will drop SFO from 14MAY11.

This was exclusively revealed by Australia's Travel Daily yesterday and is now officially confirmed by a QF release.

Here is the press release:

QANTAS TO LAUNCH SERVICES TO DALLAS/FORT WORTH FROM
SYDNEY, STRENGTHEN TIES WITH AMERICAN AIRLINES
SYDNEY, 14 January 2011: Qantas today announced it will launch direct services
from Sydney to Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport (DFW) from 16 May 2011,
giving Australians unprecedented access to destinations across the United States.
The route will see Qantas operate direct outbound flights from Sydney to DFW (as
QF7), returning to Sydney via Brisbane (as QF8). DFW is the primary hub of Qantas'
fellow oneworld alliance member, American Airlines, and the two carriers will soon
seek to expand their commercial relationship.
Qantas will offer four return flights to DFW each week, featuring a three-class Boeing
747 aircraft. Direct Sydney-San Francisco (SFO) services will be discontinued on 14
May 2011, but SFO will remain part of Qantas’ network as a codeshare destination.
Qantas Chief Executive Officer, Mr Alan Joyce, said DFW will be an excellent
addition to the Qantas network and enable Qantas to strengthen its relationship with
American Airlines.
“This new service is great news for both Australian and American travellers,” Mr
Joyce said. “It will connect Qantas customers to one of the USA’s major hub
airports, benefitting both business and leisure travellers. Flying to DFW is an
important step for Qantas as we expand and improve our international services.”
DFW is the fourth-largest and fastest-growing metropolitan area in the United States
and an important centre of business and tourism. It welcomed over 56 million
passengers in 2009, with 59 per cent of those passengers continuing onward to other
destinations.
From DFW, American Airlines and its regional airline partner, American Eagle,
operate nearly 750 flights to 186 destinations worldwide. DFW is American’s largest
hub and it offers easy connections to American’s four other cornerstone markets of
Chicago, Miami, New York and Los Angeles.
“Alongside our entry into DFW, Qantas and American Airlines intend to deepen their
existing relationship and will be seeking regulatory approval from the Australian
Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) and other relevant authorities for
this expanded commercial relationship,” Mr Joyce said.
“We have worked closely with American Airlines over many years, and with the
commencement of services to Dallas/Fort Worth we look forward to taking our
partnership to a new level and providing new and enhanced benefits for consumers
in Australia and the United States.”
The enhanced commercial agreement between American Airlines and Qantas will
involve coordination of operations between Australia/New Zealand and the United
States and deliver considerable benefits for Australian and US consumers. It will
give Qantas a stronger and more balanced network footprint in the United States and
provide more choice and convenience for travellers.
2
Thirteen new US destinations and three Mexican destinations* will join the Qantas
network through new American Airlines-operated codeshare services, meaning
Qantas will codeshare with AA to a total of 51 destinations in the US, Canada and
Mexico.
Once the new alliance comes into place, it will provide a joint platform for the airlines
to increase DFW services to a daily frequency.
“We welcome the addition of services to Australia at DFW by our valued oneworld
partner, Qantas,” said Gerard Arpey, American’s Chairman and Chief Executive
Officer. “An expanded relationship and deeper commercial cooperation with the
premier Australian carrier will benefit consumers, the employees, shareholders and
financial supporters of both airlines and will greatly enhance the services offered to
passengers by oneworld carriers.”
As part of the new commercial arrangement, AAVacations, the wholly owned tour
operator of American Airlines, will look to launch a comprehensive range of
Australian and Asia-Pacific land, air and integrated vacations for the US market,
designed to grow US leisure travel to Australia and the region.
In further positive news for Australian and US travellers, Qantas will also increase the
frequency of its Los Angeles-New York service (QF107/108) from six times per week
to daily, from June 2011.
* In the U.S: Albuquerque, Boise, Cleveland, Washington DC (Reagan National), El
Paso, New York (LaGuardia), Kansas City, Oklahoma, Phoenix, San Antonio, Salt
Lake City, Sacramento, Tucson. In Mexico: Cancun, Guadalajara, Mexico City.

[Edited 2011-01-13 15:21:02]

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: commavia
Posted 2011-01-13 15:20:28 and read 35097 times.

Incredible!

About time - very exciting news for DFW.

Quoting AlitaliaDC10 (Thread starter):
“Alongside our entry into DFW, Qantas and American Airlines intend to deepen their
existing relationship and will be seeking regulatory approval from the Australian
Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) and other relevant authorities for
this expanded commercial relationship,” Mr Joyce said.

I was expecting that a QF DFW-SYD flight would precipitate an ATI/JV request. AA sends a fair amount of traffic from DFW to SYD/Australia, and I suspect that they wanted to keep that revenue via an ATI/JV vehicle rather than see a huge chunk of it shift to QF once QF begins operating nonstop/direct flights.

Quoting AlitaliaDC10 (Thread starter):
Once the new alliance comes into place, it will provide a joint platform for the airlines
to increase DFW services to a daily frequency.

Very cool!

Quoting AlitaliaDC10 (Thread starter):
In further positive news for Australian and US travellers, Qantas will also increase the
frequency of its Los Angeles-New York service (QF107/108) from six times per week
to daily, from June 2011.

Also good.

[Edited 2011-01-13 15:22:58]

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Wrighbrothers
Posted 2011-01-13 15:20:53 and read 35083 times.

Interesting - I wonder how long this flight will be, longer than the route to LAX ?

Wrighbrothers

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2011-01-13 15:22:13 and read 35050 times.

I assume they'll use the 747-400ER (a.k.a. the 910K increased gross weight).

Too bad about SFO being dropped. Recall that SFO used to be QF's only US destination years ago. They added LAX later. They served both for awhile, but then eventually dropped SFO. Same with PR and CI. They originally served SFO long before LAX.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: n471wn
Posted 2011-01-13 15:22:57 and read 35052 times.

Wow this is crazy----those SFO to Sydney flights are always packed.....let us hope that this service will be replaced quickly----a real shame......

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2011-01-13 15:36:25 and read 34798 times.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 4):
Wow this is crazy----those SFO to Sydney flights are always packed.....let us hope that this service will be replaced quickly----a real shame......

And the carrier with no PTVs is still flying it   

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: ThomasCook
Posted 2011-01-13 15:37:30 and read 34778 times.

The flights are now on sale on Qantas.com.

Kind Regards
ThomasCook

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: OA412
Posted 2011-01-13 15:43:56 and read 34662 times.

Interesting news. I think we all knew that this was bound to happen. And, with COs announcement of IAH-AKL earlier this year, it was only a matter of time before QF/AA decided to get in on the game as a counterweight. This should do well given the hubs on both ends. SFO is a bit of a surprise, but this does allow QF to consolidate their US operations at Oneworld hubs, leaving SFO to Star.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5):
And the carrier with no PTVs is still flying it

Funny how that works out. Sort of like when LH was flying around without PTVs in Y while simultaneously announcing huge profits.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: YULWinterSkies
Posted 2011-01-13 15:44:06 and read 34627 times.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 4):
Wow this is crazy----those SFO to Sydney flights are always packed.....let us hope that this service will be replaced quickly----a real shame......

But in today's environment, hub-to-hub is the way to go over direct flights to 'historic' or 'prestigious' destinations. The demand for both low fares and increased frequency both dictate such.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: UALFAson
Posted 2011-01-13 15:45:53 and read 34625 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5):
And the carrier with no PTVs is still flying it

HAHA! That was my first thought too (well, about UA being the surviving carrier on the SFO-SYD route, not necessarily the fact that they offer a cr*p economy product, although that is also true).

I am sure Willis Tower is thrilled to have the SFO-SYD route to themselves again. As if this flight weren't already hard enough to get on already... Now can we PLEASE upgrade the in-flight economy product?!? Thanks bunches!

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Jalapeno
Posted 2011-01-13 15:47:47 and read 34592 times.

AWESOME!!! SOOO EXCITED - WOW!!!!

Was hoping to live to see the day   Hoping for the 380, I'll settle for the 74!

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2011-01-13 15:55:47 and read 34469 times.

Schedule:

QF 007 SYD 1325-1350 DFW 744 xTuThSu
QF 008 DFW 2200-0500+2 BNE 0630-0805 SYD 744 xTuThSu

I am willing to bet CO's IAH-AKL announcement helped finally push Qantas over the edge in starting this route.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: macsog6
Posted 2011-01-13 15:56:48 and read 34407 times.

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 9):
I am sure Willis Tower is thrilled to have the SFO-SYD route to themselves again

Oh well, back down to LAX to catch QF again. This really surprised me.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Bartond
Posted 2011-01-13 16:00:08 and read 34310 times.

Wow, this will be great for so many people in the eastern 2/3 of the country that can connect through DFW rather than the west coast. I guess the information leaked before the big announcement but I thought we would have first heard about this via a huge announcement at DFW, with mayors of Dallas/Ft. Worth joining in, etc.

I dunno, it just seems like a strange way to hear about the flight and also a somewhat short 4-month time period to get the word out, prepare for the flight on both ends, etc. But maybe folks involved in this know more than I do about how/when to start int'l. flights.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: gdg9
Posted 2011-01-13 16:04:50 and read 34227 times.

dfwairport.com still has nothing about this - their biggest new route in years.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Bartond
Posted 2011-01-13 16:12:34 and read 34110 times.

I'm not sure how this guy knows that "DFW Airport just confirmed the flight" but the Dallas Morning News' airline blogger wrote the following a short while ago:

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...antas-airways-dfw-flights-are.html

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: as739x
Posted 2011-01-13 16:13:13 and read 34104 times.

Well that will open the door for V Australia at SFO

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: timz
Posted 2011-01-13 16:15:43 and read 34068 times.

The press release doesn't say it's nonstop-- but it is?

Eastward nonstop is the longest ever for a 747?

[Edited 2011-01-13 16:16:37]

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: gdg9
Posted 2011-01-13 16:18:14 and read 33996 times.

Quoting Bartond (Reply 15):
"DFW Airport just confirmed the flight"

Probably this press release from DFW Airport:

DFW International Airport
Public Affairs Department

DFW International Airport Connects Down Under with New Qantas Airways Service to Sydney and Brisbane, Australia

Renowned international carrier to establish first nonstop passenger connection from North Texas to Australia

(DFW AIRPORT, TX – January 13, 2011) – DFW International Airport today announced that Qantas Airways Ltd., the national airline of Australia, will begin nonstop service from Sydney to Dallas-Fort Worth with four flights a week starting on May 16, 2011. The Qantas direct flight from DFW to Sydney will include a stop in Brisbane, Australia, giving DFW passengers unprecedented access to Australia and the South Pacific. Qantas will operate the new service to Dallas-Fort Worth utilizing Boeing 747-400 aircraft.

“We are truly excited to have this new Qantas service to Australia as part of DFW’s growing global network,” said Jeff Fegan, Chief Executive Officer of DFW International Airport. “This new service is a testament to the strength of the Dallas-Fort Worth business environment and the Airport’s dedication to a world class travel experience. We look forward to demonstrating our outstanding Texas hospitality to Qantas passengers from our internationally renowned Terminal D.”

“This new service is great news for both Australian and American travellers,” said Qantas Chief Executive Officer Alan Joyce. “It will connect Qantas customers to one of the USA’s major hub airports, benefitting both business and leisure travellers. Flying to DFW is an important step for Qantas as we expand and improve our international services.”

As a oneworld Alliance partner, Qantas will offer codeshare benefits with passengers of American Airlines and other oneworld partners.

“We welcome the addition of services to Australia at DFW by our valued oneworld partner, Qantas,” said Gerard Arpey, American’s Chairman and Chief Executive Officer. “An expanded relationship and deeper commercial cooperation with the premier Australian carrier will benefit consumers, the employees, shareholders and financial supporters of both airlines and will greatly enhance the services offered to passengers by oneworld carriers.”

Qantas operates its main hub in Sydney, and serves 18 destinations in Australia and 21 international destinations around the world in addition to DFW.

“Clearly this is terrific news for all of North Texas,” said Dallas Mayor Tom Leppert. “Having a premier international carrier like Qantas offer service to Australia from DFW is a major boost to both tourism and commerce. We all look forward to the launch of these new flights.”

The Qantas service to Sydney and Brisbane will bring an estimated annual economic impact of $130 million to the North Texas region.

“News of flights between DFW and Australia is a great way to start 2011,” said Fort Worth Mayor Mike Moncrief. “We believe the Qantas service will be a tremendous boon for the people of our region. It will be more efficient for passengers who want to visit Australia and for local companies that want to do business there.”

The additions of Sydney and Brisbane bring the total number of destinations served or announced from DFW to 188 cities, including 144 domestic and 44 international destinations.

[Edited 2011-01-13 16:25:00]

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: OA412
Posted 2011-01-13 16:19:07 and read 34001 times.

Quoting timz (Reply 17):

It's nonstop SYD-DFW, but stops at BNE on the return leg.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: YYZALA
Posted 2011-01-13 16:20:33 and read 33973 times.

At 7454 nm (still air) for a 747, that is mighty impressive. How long will the flight be? I wonder why AA didn't launch this route with the 77E?

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: gdg9
Posted 2011-01-13 16:23:02 and read 33922 times.

Quoting YYZALA (Reply 20):
I wonder why AA didn't launch this route with the 77E?

Their pilots would have scuttled it, just as they did with DFW-China service. Flights are too long for the current contract.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: realsim
Posted 2011-01-13 16:26:11 and read 33846 times.

Great news!

It seems that OneWorld has finally realised that they need to maximize to the maximum degree the collaboration between all their members.

Quoting AlitaliaDC10 (Thread starter):
The enhanced commercial agreement between American Airlines and Qantas will
involve coordination of operations between Australia/New Zealand and the United
States and deliver considerable benefits for Australian and US consumers. It will
give Qantas a stronger and more balanced network footprint in the United States and
provide more choice and convenience for travellers.
Quoting AlitaliaDC10 (Thread starter):
%u201CAlongside our entry into DFW, Qantas and American Airlines intend to deepen their
existing relationship and will be seeking regulatory approval from the Australian
Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) and other relevant authorities for
this expanded commercial relationship,%u201D Mr Joyce said.

Does this mean they are going to apply for ATI?

The long-haul destinations from DFW are quite impressive

http://tinyurl.com/6e7ndan

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: ThomasCook
Posted 2011-01-13 16:26:29 and read 33841 times.

It appears to be a 3 class B747 (J/W/Y) which are all non ERs.

ThomasCook

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Zkpilot
Posted 2011-01-13 16:30:17 and read 33781 times.

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 2):
Interesting - I wonder how long this flight will be, longer than the route to LAX ?

15-16 hours in each direction (tail winds from SYD making for a smaller ESAD, Head winds on the DFW-BNE making the shorter distance a longer ESAD).

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: BMI727
Posted 2011-01-13 16:36:50 and read 35505 times.

Quoting YYZALA (Reply 20):
I wonder why AA didn't launch this route with the 77E?

And it is ~700 NM farther than EWR-BOM, so an ER probably couldn't carry that much payload. Also, the route to SYD crosses a bit of airspace that is inaccessible under ETOPS 180.

Quoting macsog6 (Reply 12):
Oh well, back down to LAX to catch QF again.

If I ever find myself going on this route (it won't be in coach I know that) I'm using DFW. Connecting at LAX isn't a particularly attractive notion.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: AlitaliaDC10
Posted 2011-01-13 16:41:47 and read 35338 times.

Quoting ThomasCook (Reply 23):
It appears to be a 3 class B747 (J/W/Y) which are all non ERs.

ThomasCook

Hi ThomasCook,

Where possible GE powered ERs will be used (RR powered 744s is really pushing it for the DFW-BNE leg without payload restrictions) - the First Class cabin will be sold as J class - seating in this cabin will to Chairman's Lounge/Plats. Similar to what is now offered on the SFO and EZE - First cabin sold as J.

J66 / W26 / Y215 is current offering for the DFW flight.

And also what happened last year on the QF29/QF30 when F svc was not offered.

AZDC10.

[Edited 2011-01-13 16:45:32]

[Edited 2011-01-13 16:46:45]

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: gemuser
Posted 2011-01-13 16:47:17 and read 35757 times.

Still no press release on qantas.com.au but it IS showing in the online timetable!

AT last - NOW I'm excited   

BUT: QF has been known to cancel new routes even close to launch than we are now.

Quoting YYZALA (Reply 20):
At 7454 nm (still air) for a 747, that is mighty impressive. How long will the flight be?

Eastbound timetable: Depart SYD 1325 (UTC+10) arrive DFW 1350 (UTC-6) = 16 hours time difference = 16:24 hours timetabled.

Westbound timetable: Depart DFW 2200 (UTC-6) arrive SYD 0805 (UTC+10) two days later = 34:05 hours minus 16 = 18:05 hours elapsed time (incl BNE stop, 90 minutes) so total flying time DFW-SYD = 16:35 hours timetabled.

[All this assumes DFW is not on daylight saving, if it is on 16 May then eastbound = 15:24 hours and westbound = 17:35 hours.]

Gemuser

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2011-01-13 16:50:53 and read 35725 times.

Quoting realsim (Reply 22):
The long-haul destinations from DFW are quite impressive

For an airport and city of its size, its not in terms purely of number of destinations.

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 21):
Quoting YYZALA (Reply 20):
I wonder why AA didn't launch this route with the 77E?

Their pilots would have scuttled it, just as they did with DFW-China service. Flights are too long for the current contract.

Says who? The pilots had a very unique opportunity to make a very public case with the China flights, unlike, say, flights to Delhi, which the pilots did not attempt to scuttle. And pilots likely won't make an issue with Miami-Tokyo, either.

[Edited 2011-01-13 16:51:26]

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: sccutler
Posted 2011-01-13 16:51:11 and read 35542 times.

This is marvelous news for north Texas, QF, AA, and all who have to travel from the eastern regions to Australia. I'll be able to fly DFW-ADL (family there) with only one change of plane. That's just wonderful!

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Bartond
Posted 2011-01-13 16:51:18 and read 35535 times.

It will be so neat to see that big red tail at Terminal D from 150pm - 1020pm every day. Lots of chances to see it and it will make DFW look more like a true international airport. Step by step...

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: legacyins
Posted 2011-01-13 16:52:41 and read 35412 times.

Quoting gemuser (Reply 27):
Still no press release on qantas.com.au but it IS showing in the online timetable!

It's showing on their US site.

http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/home/us/en

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: smi0006
Posted 2011-01-13 16:54:04 and read 35370 times.

When will these aircraft be refitted with the upgraded sky bed and economy seats along with the removal of first? I was under the impresion it was to start shortly? How many aircraft utilisation wise will this route require at three weekly?

Shame to see SFO although I'm sure it will come back with a 787....

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: allrite
Posted 2011-01-13 16:54:54 and read 35412 times.

I wonder if SFO will restart as a priority once Qantas gets its 787s.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: aa61hvy
Posted 2011-01-13 16:56:08 and read 35312 times.

I'd love to see that bad boy take off from DFW during one of those hot August summer nights!

Great for DFW.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: yeogeo
Posted 2011-01-13 16:57:56 and read 35647 times.

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 2):
I wonder how long this flight will be, longer than the route to LAX ?

Currently the SYD-LAX flight is # 24 worldwide at 6507nm. Here's the top 20 with the new flights inserted:

1 SINº-EWRº 8285 SQˇ 345
2 SIN-LAXº 7621 SQ 345
3 SYDº-DFWº 7454 QF ˇ 744
4 ATLº-JNBº 7334 SA)">DLˇ 77L
5 DXBº-LAX 7246 EK ˇ 77W+77L
6 DFW-BNEº 7215 QF 744
7 BKKº-LAX 7186 TGˇ 345
8 DXB-IAHº 7097 EK 77L
9 DXB-SFOº 7041 EK 77W
10 HKGº-JFKº 7014 CX ˇ 77W
11 EWR-HKG 7009 SA)">COˇ 77E
12 DOHº-IAH 6993 QRˇ 77L
13 JFK-JNB† 6925 SAˇ 343
14 MELº-LAX 6883 QF/VAˇ 744*/77W
15 DTWº-HKG 6828 SA)">DL 77L
16 YYZ º-HKG 6787 ACˇ/CX 77L/77W
17 BOMº-EWR 6784 AIˇ/CO 77L/77E
18 TPEº-EWR†† 6777 BRˇ 77W
19 ORDº-HKG** 6772 UAˇ 744
20 YVRº-SYD 6741 AC 77L

SA operates nonstop southbound only. Northbound: JNB-DKR-JFK
†† BR operates nonstop eastbound only. Westbound: EWR-ANC-TPE

* QF operates 388 northbound only from 16 Jan ’11
** CX scheduled to operate also from 1 Sep ’11

ˇ longest flight for this carrier
º longest flight for this airport

Quoting timz (Reply 17):
Eastward nonstop is the longest ever for a 747?

Ever? I don't know, but when it starts, it will be.

yeo

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2011-01-13 16:58:42 and read 35295 times.

Not everyone will agree, but DFW is my favorite airport to connect in. I fly AA through DFW anytime I fly to, say, South America. Clearing Customs at DFW is always really smooth and easy and D terminal is great.

Living in SEA, I'd seriously consider flying SEA-DFW-SYD rather than SEA-LAX-SYD. It's probably not a whole lot longer, but a much nice airport to connect in.

I'm sure this fact isn't lost on QF and AA either.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: gemuser
Posted 2011-01-13 17:01:31 and read 35182 times.

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 32):
How many aircraft utilisation wise will this route require at three weekly?

It's four weekly, not Tue, Thr, Sun, for a nominal 1.2 aircraft. In practical terms I assume that's 1.5 aircraft.

Gemuser

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: AlitaliaDC10
Posted 2011-01-13 17:05:52 and read 35150 times.

Quoting gemuser (Reply 27):
BUT: QF has been known to cancel new routes even close to launch than we are now.

True - the QF93/QF94 flights MEL-LAX-ORD come to mind...not to mention the SYD-AKL-DFW flights announced back in 2000 (or 2001?) for the 744ERs.

I think this one is def going ahead though - and such a short lead in time too!

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: QFA787380
Posted 2011-01-13 17:10:18 and read 34916 times.

Sounds like the ideal route for the 77L. Oh, I forgot, QF didn't order the 777  

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Bartond
Posted 2011-01-13 17:12:22 and read 34872 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 28):
Quoting realsim (Reply 22):
The long-haul destinations from DFW are quite impressive

For an airport and city of its size, its not in terms purely of number of destinations.

I was waiting for you or someone to come in and rain on the parade. Now show us a map of Miami and all of the wonderful destinations served from it.

Point being, this is a good thing for DFW as the airport continues to build its international network.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Airvan00
Posted 2011-01-13 17:13:31 and read 34920 times.

Quoting QFA787380 (Reply 39):
Sounds like the ideal route for the 77L. Oh, I forgot, QF didn't order the 777

Sounds like and ideal route for a A380   Any bets on when the 744ER's will be replaced by the A380

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: PITrules
Posted 2011-01-13 17:14:51 and read 34884 times.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 4):
Wow this is crazy----those SFO to Sydney flights are always packed.....let us hope that this service will be replaced quickly----a real shame......
Quoting macsog6 (Reply 12):
This really surprised me.

+1. Is this simply a matter of robbing Peter to pay Paul as far as aircraft availability? Or does the SFO service really not make enough $$$ for QF?

I fully understand the need for a DFW service with its greater connection opportunities. But considering how many Australians visit California in comparison to the rest of the US, it is surprising they would give up SFO. If a 747 is a bit too much for SFO, perhaps this is another reason QF should have ordered 777s?

Quoting as739x (Reply 16):
Well that will open the door for V Australia at SFO

  
Now it makes even more sense to link up with VX there.


Quoting smi0006 (Reply 32):

Shame to see SFO although I'm sure it will come back with a 787...

Me thinks it will

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: ikramerica
Posted 2011-01-13 17:21:32 and read 34625 times.

Quoting gemuser (Reply 27):
[All this assumes DFW is not on daylight saving, if it is on 16 May then eastbound = 15:24 hours and westbound = 17:35 hours.]

It most definitely is and makes more sense. No way the flying time going West, against the wind and with a stop including an additional approach and departure which include slow speeds and uturns and such is the same as the non-stop time going east. 2 additional hours seems more like it.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2011-01-13 17:33:06 and read 34234 times.

Quoting Bartond (Reply 40):
Now show us a map of Miami and all of the wonderful destinations served from it.

It's debatable which has more "impressive" destinations, but I can sure tell you which airport is nicer and which airport is far far easier to clear Customs in DFW. I've never waited more than a few minutes at DFW. I arrived once at MIA from LPB and it was a nightmare. Hour long wait; long wait at security; dump of an airport, etc. DFW is great for international connections.

Any information as to why QF is dropping SFO? Is it just lack of additional equipment? Someone else indicated that the SFO-SYD flights were doing very well.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Airvan00
Posted 2011-01-13 17:33:50 and read 34255 times.

The Flight times (really push back to nose in ) on the Qantas schedule (which take into account the pesky confusion of Daylight saving) have the following QF 7 SYD-DFW 15h 25m QF 8 DFW-BNE 16h 00m

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: us330
Posted 2011-01-13 17:38:13 and read 34060 times.

How will the scheduling of flights affect crew rest? Will the tuesday crew operate the thursday flight, the thursday crew the saturday flight, etc?
I presume they will deadhead the crew to operate the inaugural departure from DFW from the last arrival into SFO.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: N593HA
Posted 2011-01-13 17:50:03 and read 33763 times.

As many have said in this thread before it surprise me that QF drops SFO.
Once QF receives 787, SFO may be back, but I have the feeling that the 787 offers too little capacity for SYD-SFO-SYD.
I mean QF easily fills up 744s on this route currently.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: mogandoCI
Posted 2011-01-13 17:50:59 and read 33831 times.

let's hope UA fills the gap and increase SFO-SYD frequency, or maybe take a direct stab and open up SFO-MEL (although none of their current fleet is really capable without severe load penalties)

so we have IAH-AKL and SYD/BNE-DFW

unless you're flying exactly to those destinations, that means a 2-stop flight for anyone in Oceania to anyone in SE/Midwest/NE North America

but i can imagine the IAH-AKL flight to succeed easier :
1. much shorter flight (just about same distance as EWR-PVG, which is a piece of cake), so CASM is lower (not accounting for difference between 787 and 747, which makes the gap even more pronounced)
2. no back tracking required for anyone in Oceania (maybe for people in Cairns or Darwin, but then how big is that market anyway)
3. Oil hub in Houston (the same reason IAH has EK and QR and SQ while DFW got none of those)
4. little chance of unscheduled fuel stop (with the 747-400ER on DFW-BNE especially, i'm seeing a good chance ops will be frequently interrupted with fuel stops)

of course it has its weakness :
1. no Y+
2. most people going down-under wants to visit Sydney, so that's a 2-stop flight to SYD for most people (but then, with the stop in BNE, the net outcome is similar on the southbound leg)

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: fab747
Posted 2011-01-13 17:53:32 and read 33704 times.

Great news as QF adds DFW to its network. SFO will eventually go to Jetstar once they receive their 787s. That's the rumour of the moment according to a good source back in SFO.
Qf will utilise 3 class 747s for the moment till the newly reconfigured 747ers come online.
Apparently new European destinations could be in the pipeline as AIR BERLIN becomes a OneWorld member and Madrid to become a huge OneWorld port due the alliance of BA and IB. Stay tune!

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: gdg9
Posted 2011-01-13 17:58:15 and read 33530 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 28):
Says who? The pilots had a very unique opportunity to make a very public case with the China

If I recall correctly, the pilots made a stink about a flight that was 30 minutes longer than the contract allowed. I may well be wrong. They made a public case and what happened? AA lost a route and the pilots didn't gain anything.

Quoting allrite (Reply 33):
I wonder if SFO will restart as a priority once Qantas gets its 787s.

If those are ever delivered! to any carrier.   

I wonder if QF will just shift their SFO staff to DFW? Short notice.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: StuckInCA
Posted 2011-01-13 18:04:41 and read 33317 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 36):
Living in SEA, I'd seriously consider flying SEA-DFW-SYD rather than SEA-LAX-SYD. It's probably not a whole lot longer, but a much nice airport to connect in.

Even if it is longer, it might be worth it to avoid that much time on an airplane full of Southern Californians.

 

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: kiwiandrew
Posted 2011-01-13 18:05:20 and read 32708 times.

OK , I admit it , I was skeptical and thought that this service would never be officially launched ..... I guess I better go off and eat a large helping of humble pie . It will be interesting to see how this service does .

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Longhornmaniac
Posted 2011-01-13 18:09:20 and read 32605 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 36):
Not everyone will agree, but DFW is my favorite airport to connect in. I fly AA through DFW anytime I fly to, say, South America. Clearing Customs at DFW is always really smooth and easy and D terminal is great.

And anyone who disagrees with you is flat out wrong.   

DFW is a marvelous airport to connect in, domestically or internationally. Terminal D is a work of art.

Cheers,
Cameron

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: mogandoCI
Posted 2011-01-13 18:12:42 and read 32463 times.

Quoting N593HA (Reply 47):
As many have said in this thread before it surprise me that QF drops SFO.
Once QF receives 787, SFO may be back, but I have the feeling that the 787 offers too little capacity for SYD-SFO-SYD.
I mean QF easily fills up 744s on this route currently.

maybe it makes sense to ULH feed into AA's hub over a city with more O&D, but i'd consider lowering SFO's frequency instead of dropping it completely

it's rather awkward that QF floods LAX like no tomorrow then drops SFO

V Australia, please come to our rescue

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: ikramerica
Posted 2011-01-13 18:12:55 and read 32565 times.

Does anyone think the tits-up QF A380, leaving QF 1 A380 short, has lead to the cancellation of SFO? If the plan was to move the 744ER to DFW and they have been working on this expanded codeshare deal in the BG for a year, they would scuttle those plans simply due to the A380 problems. So they would then have to make a choice: scuttle the AA codeshares or the SFO route...

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: thenoflyzone
Posted 2011-01-13 18:16:46 and read 32418 times.

I fail to see how QF will make money on this route. It's simply too long for any equipment QF has right now.

Even the longest flight on a 77L (DL ATL-JNB) is shorter than SYD-DFW. Unless QF decide to stick around at a loss until they change to a 787 on this route, they will have no choice but to pull out.

Thenoflyzone

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: aa61hvy
Posted 2011-01-13 18:17:20 and read 32372 times.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 52):
OK , I admit it , I was skeptical and thought that this service would never be officially launched ..... I guess I better go off and eat a large helping of humble pie . It will be interesting to see how this service does .

At least you have the class of admitting you were wrong. There are some clowns on Anet who always said this wouldn't happen--they are mysteriously absent from this thread.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Airvan00
Posted 2011-01-13 18:22:14 and read 32261 times.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 55):
Does anyone think the tits-up QF A380, leaving QF 1 A380 short, has lead to the cancellation of SFO?

More likely the delays to the B787. The 744ER's are not needed to SFO but are needed for LAX-MEL and by May will be replaced by A380's so 2 spare 744ER's

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: commavia
Posted 2011-01-13 18:28:18 and read 32032 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 36):
Not everyone will agree, but DFW is my favorite airport to connect in. I fly AA through DFW anytime I fly to, say, South America. Clearing Customs at DFW is always really smooth and easy and D terminal is great.
Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 53):
DFW is a marvelous airport to connect in, domestically or internationally. Terminal D is a work of art.

  

Couldn't agree more with both of you.

It's my home airport, so I'm definitely biased.

But, that being said, I have myself flown through (according to FlightMemory - love that site!) over 105 airports in 29 countries in my life, and I honestly have to say that DFW truly is one of the "easiest" airport experiences of any I've ever had. DFW's terminals are not exactly the nicest, newest, most fresh or classy looking around (save for D, which I'd actually say is internationally-competitive in all of those things) but man they sure are accessible, fast and efficient - especially for O&D.

And while connecting at DFW used to draw complaints because of the semi-circle shape of the terminals and the awful TrAAin, now with SkyLink, I've heard many non-locals rave about how fast and effortless connections are at DFW.

As I said months ago in another thread speculating on a nonstop DFW-SYD flight, if I had to connect from the U.S. to Australia, I would take DFW over LAX any day of the week - and that is to say, even over AA's T4 at LAX, which is probably the nicest single terminal at the airport. DFW is just so much less chaotic, customs lines are so much shorter, etc.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2011-01-13 18:33:01 and read 31889 times.

This is HUGE. I bet alot of passengers that had to double connect at LAX will really be happy by this. Great addition and the AA feed should make this successful.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: flymia
Posted 2011-01-13 18:35:23 and read 31823 times.

Quoting Bartond (Reply 40):
I was waiting for you or someone to come in and rain on the parade. Now show us a map of Miami and all of the wonderful destinations served from it.

Point being, this is a good thing for DFW as the airport continues to build its international network

No one said this is not good for DFW. But for the size of the airport and city it is true DFW does not have that many long haul or international destinations compared to other airports. But it is a great thing for DFW, AA and QF and all of the AA network.

I am surprised QF has dropped SFO. But this is good for AA and QF it will make for some better connections across the midwest and east.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: OA412
Posted 2011-01-13 18:39:17 and read 31769 times.

[

Quoting commavia (Reply 59):
Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 53):
DFW is a marvelous airport to connect in, domestically or internationally. Terminal D is a work of art.


Couldn't agree more with both of you.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to take both of your comments with a grain of salt. After all, when it comes to Texas, there's no accounting for taste.

Exhibit A

Exhibit B
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/4983/4526958139782fdc5aa3b.jpg

That is all.     

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: peanuts
Posted 2011-01-13 18:41:13 and read 31689 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
I am willing to bet CO's IAH-AKL announcement helped finally push Qantas over the edge in starting this route.

But why? Does AKL=SYD?
SYD appears to be stronger for the O&D portion of the traffic so SYD-DFW has to be the stronger route compared to AKL-IAH.
I don't see the the "push" factor here.
OneWorld can greatly benefit from this new route, I just don't see the strong competitive connection with AKL-IAH. I realize there is one but OneWorld has the advantage here. Not sure they felt "pushed". What I do think is that StarAlliance felt this one coming and may have been "pushed" to do something and announce a route wayyyyy before the plane is even built. They must have seen this QF assault coming and decided to make an early announcement for AKL-IAH.
CO was "pushed", ahead of time.



On another note: Does BNE still exist? Will it be a war zone in May?

[Edited 2011-01-13 18:44:03]

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Threepoint
Posted 2011-01-13 18:45:22 and read 31589 times.

Quoting YYZALA (Reply 20):
At 7454 nm (still air) for a 747, that is mighty impressive.

At the risk of splitting hairs, it'll remain 7454 nm in still air or howling winds. But I know what you meant.

Quoting realsim (Reply 22):
The long-haul destinations from DFW are quite impressive

Er, BNE is a destination from DFW; the flight between DFW and SYD is non-stop one way only (eastbound).

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2011-01-13 18:47:24 and read 31606 times.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 4):
Wow this is crazy----those SFO to Sydney flights are always packed.....let us hope that this service will be replaced quickly----a real shame......

Maybe packed, but ain't covering the bills obviously.

SFO can be a hard market. Its significantly smaller than LAX and has a strong home carrier. AA cant help QF much at SFO.

Quoting as739x (Reply 16):
Well that will open the door for V Australia at SFO

   Once they get more a/c. I know at LAX they keep saying they are targeting at 3 daily flights eventually, so could probably run one to SFO also.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 25):
If I ever find myself going on this route (it won't be in coach I know that) I'm using DFW. Connecting at LAX isn't a particularly attractive notion.

    You are going to fly SFO-DFW-BNE-SYD when you could be in LAX in 50mins and your destination SYD some 5-6 hours quicker?

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 48):
let's hope UA fills the gap and increase SFO-SYD frequency, or maybe take a direct stab and open up SFO-MEL (although none of their current fleet is really capable without severe load penalties)

Fill the gap? UA can keep its single flight, and no need to tinker with a MEL nonstop which has never worked in the past.

Anyhow between the two UA SYD flights, LAX tended to be better, so QF leaving SFO should solidify the SFO flights loads and performance now.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 54):
it's rather awkward that QF floods LAX like no tomorrow then drops SFO

Why awkward? The bulk of the demand and apparent money is in LA.

QF, NZ, FJ, TN, VA don't make Los Angeles their primary or sole US service point for no reason.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Airvan00
Posted 2011-01-13 18:48:01 and read 31483 times.

Quoting peanuts (Reply 63):

On another note: Does BNE still exist? Will it be a war zone in May?

It's not good in parts at the moment but will be fine in May. Don't forget the flooding in Brisbane is only occurring in places where it should flood. The problem is people build on the flood plain and then get surprised.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: blink182
Posted 2011-01-13 19:04:59 and read 31149 times.

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 64):

Er, BNE is a destination from DFW; the flight between DFW and SYD is non-stop one way only (eastbound).

How will the BNE stopover be handled? Will all ex-DFW pax be required to clear customs and immigration before resuming to SYD, thus basically making BNE a connection point for other Australian cities? Where will the aircraft park in SYD?
I presume the 90 minute stopover in BNE is still faster than DFW-LAX-SYD(without the BNE stopover).

Also, does anybody think that the yields or loads on LAX-BNE will be adversely affected by DFW-BNE?

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Aware
Posted 2011-01-13 19:14:30 and read 30958 times.

Why schedule the SYD-DFW to arrive so late into DFW - a brave person to book a connecting flight much before 4pm I would have thought. Could leave three hours earlier from SYD and still allow time for connections to flight in SYD.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: zeke
Posted 2011-01-13 19:19:44 and read 30848 times.

Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 41):
Sounds like and ideal route for a A380 Any bets on when the 744ER's will be replaced by the A380

Yes, I think DFW will be the next port the A380 will serve in the USA as QF builds the new route and retires the 744s.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: gdg9
Posted 2011-01-13 19:24:42 and read 30677 times.

Quoting aa61hvy (Reply 57):
At least you have the class of admitting you were wrong. There are some clowns on Anet who always said this wouldn't happen--they are mysteriously absent from this thread.

I've been hearing this rumor for years, and even today, thought it was the same old nonsense. I am pleasantly surprised it is a rumor no more! I was figuring this would wait until 787 arrival.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: DavidByrne
Posted 2011-01-13 19:50:24 and read 30207 times.

I'm wondering whether NZ had some kind of advance intelligence of the QF move to switch from SFO to DFW. During 2011 they ramp up their AKL-SFO flights (which connect pretty seamlessly to and from five Australian ports) from 5 x 77E weekly to 7 x 744 weekly.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: DFWneedsQF
Posted 2011-01-13 20:13:19 and read 29748 times.

All I can say is I think my screen name says it all. I've Only had it for a few years! YAY Qantas

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Longhornmaniac
Posted 2011-01-13 20:21:25 and read 29631 times.

Quoting DFWneedsQF (Reply 72):

   You finally got your wish!

This is awesome news for DFW, and indeed for AA in general. LAX can just be an absolute nightmare to transit, and this really opens up virtually all of AA's network to one stop shopping (no pun intended) to and from Australia.

Kudos to QF/AA/oneworld!

Cheers,
Cameron

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Airvan00
Posted 2011-01-13 20:29:04 and read 29511 times.

Quoting blink182 (Reply 67):
How will the BNE stopover be handled? Will all ex-DFW pax be required to clear customs and immigration before resuming to SYD, thus basically making BNE a connection point for other Australian cities? Where will the aircraft park in SYD?

Australia is like the rest of the world (except the US). Pax will clear customs at either BNE or SYD. So if heading for Cairns they will get off in BNE and clear customs there, but if coming south they may be allowed to stay on the aircraft or spend a bit of time stretching their legs in the transit shopping mall. In SYD the aircraft will park at the international terminal (all QF flight numbers below 400 park there) where remaining passengers will clear customs..



[Edited 2011-01-13 20:35:29]

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: gemuser
Posted 2011-01-13 20:34:22 and read 29366 times.

Quoting blink182 (Reply 67):
How will the BNE stopover be handled? Will all ex-DFW pax be required to clear customs and immigration before resuming to SYD, thus basically making BNE a connection point for other Australian cities? Where will the aircraft park in SYD?

I assume standard procedures will apply, which means that pax destined for BNE or connecting there will clear Immigration & Customs, all other pax will do so in SYD. QF8 will legally be an international flight until it reaches SYD. There are procedures in place that would allow QF to carry domestic pax BNE-SYD if they want to.

Gemuser

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: peanuts
Posted 2011-01-13 20:45:05 and read 29213 times.

LOL. I just got a kick out of this post.

How is this:

Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 74):
Pax will clear customs at either BNE or SYD. So if heading for Cairns they will get off in BNE and clear customs there, but if coming south they may be allowed to stay on the aircraft or spend a bit of time stretching their legs in the transit shopping mall. In SYD the aircraft will park at the international terminal (all QF flight numbers below 400 park there) where remaining passengers will clear customs..

Anything like this?:

Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 74):
Australia is like the rest of the world (except the US).

Looks to me Australia got its own rules and........exceptions.  

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2011-01-13 20:46:30 and read 29256 times.

NOT cool QF. NOT COOL.

Apparently packed-full 744's to SFO just aren't good enough. And that screws us at SFO because now our only nonstop is on UA, who are now free to offer crappy service and jack up prices as much as they like.

Quoting fab747 (Reply 49):
SFO will eventually go to Jetstar once they receive their 787s. That's the rumour of the moment according to a good source back in SFO.

What? Some time in 2054?

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2011-01-13 20:58:04 and read 28868 times.

Quoting fab747 (Reply 49):
SFO will eventually go to Jetstar once they receive their 787s. That's the rumour of the moment according to a good source back in SFO.

If true its an odd way to do business.

Its going to be a much steeper marketing curve to launch Jetstar from scratch at SFO then transition it from an ongoing QF flight. Once you shut down and leave you invariably will loose market awareness and goodwill.

Anyhow, I think the whole thing might be a race with V Australia. For all we know they could commence a LAX-SFO tag if they wished come May 15th with one of the two 77Ws that sit around LAX half the day.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Bartond
Posted 2011-01-13 21:09:14 and read 28651 times.

I think it's really interesting - the talk of CO/NZ possibly knowing that QF had plans for DFW and that's why they started CO IAH-AKL service. Who knows but I'd almost agree with MAH that it sounds like this is QF/AA scrambling to get a flight going between the SYD and DFW hubs, in response to CO's IAH-AKL flight.

Either way, it's GREAT to see DFW ponying up and getting service to the South Pacific. I really hope QF will someday get a 77W or 77L that might make the nonstop SYD-DFW work both east/west bound. Hope the stop in Brisbane doesn't push too many customers away from the flight.

I'll have to schedule a business trip to DFW in mid-May to check out the big red white and red bird at Terminal D.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Airvan00
Posted 2011-01-13 21:09:30 and read 28657 times.

Quoting peanuts (Reply 76):
Looks to me Australia got its own rules and........exceptions.

The general rule is that if you are on an international flight, say AMS-LHR change aircraft LHR-SYD you don't clear British immigration. You do not enter the United Kingdom. Same as hundreds of other transit points around the world. This is no different. If you fly DFW-BNE-SYD you do not enter Australia (as far as immigration and customs is concerned) until SYD.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: LDVAviation
Posted 2011-01-13 21:09:30 and read 28660 times.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 62):
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to take both of your comments with a grain of salt. After all, when it comes to Texas, there's no accounting for taste.


And what qualifies you to comment on the taste level in Dallas? You reside in Salt Lake City.

[Edited 2011-01-13 21:11:06]

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: laca773
Posted 2011-01-13 21:16:00 and read 28565 times.

Quoting fab747 (Reply 49):
Great news as QF adds DFW to its network. SFO will eventually go to Jetstar once they receive their 787s. That's the rumour of the moment according to a good source back in SFO.
Qf will utilise 3 class 747s for the moment till the newly reconfigured 747ers come online.
Apparently new European destinations could be in the pipeline as AIR BERLIN becomes a OneWorld member and Madrid to become a huge OneWorld port due the alliance of BA and IB. Stay tune!

I don't think JetStar is the airline to do longhauls for QF from SFO. Those coming into and leaving SFO want a nicer experience and full service, especially those flying in at least J. I don't feel JetStar will meet those expectations at all.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 54):
maybe it makes sense to ULH feed into AA's hub over a city with more O&D, but i'd consider lowering SFO's frequency instead of dropping it completely

it's rather awkward that QF floods LAX like no tomorrow then drops SFO

I think it comes down to SFO being a Star Hub. Even though I wouldn't fly UA on a longhaul period, but instead would fly their Star partner, the great NZ. SFO is well covered with UA to SYD and NZ to AKL which has been upgauged to a 744 for the time being (I'm sure this route will eventually become a 77W) and daily at the same time.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 56):
I fail to see how QF will make money on this route. It's simply too long for any equipment QF has right now.

I don't think it's about making money right now. They wanted to get this service started before CO starts their IAH-AKL flight.

Quoting zeke (Reply 69):

Yes, I think DFW will be the next port the A380 will serve in the USA as QF builds the new route and retires the 744s.

I doubt it. I think this route will be downgauged to a 788 then up'gauged to a 789 once QF begins to receive their new birds. The A380 is way too much capacity for this route. Can the A380 do ULH anyway?

Because of these continuous and extended delays, Boeing should make very nice with QF and offer them some 77L/77Ws to get by until they can deliver their 787s to them.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Aeroflot777
Posted 2011-01-13 21:21:54 and read 28467 times.

Quoting as739x (Reply 16):
Well that will open the door for V Australia at SFO

I completely agree. I believe V Australia can definitely make a successful move here at SFO.

To a certain degree, I think that Air New Zealand might be able to take advantage of this as well. The Auckland to Australia connections are very plenty and NZ's early morning arrival into AKL from SFO can be synced very well if needed.

We'll see what happens.

Aeroflot777

[Edited 2011-01-13 21:31:47]

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2011-01-13 21:27:53 and read 28335 times.

This is an impressive addition. Connecting two of Oneworld's more important hubs.  
Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 41):
Sounds like and ideal route for a A380

Not with RR engines.   

Seriously, if A380 deliveries were on schedule, this would be an ideal A380 route. (But at 3X week?)

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 60):
I bet alot of passengers that had to double connect at LAX will really be happy by this. Great addition and the AA feed should make this successful.

There is the value. DFW has an amazing connecting ability.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 65):
AA cant help QF much at SFO.

Sad but true. One bit lost in the 'point to point argument.' And yes, I realize this route would be viable if QF had 789s today... But as you note:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 78):
Once you shut down and leave you invariably will loose market awareness and goodwill.

   It is going to be tough to wrestle the customers back from UA. I'm surprised they didn't do a frequency reduction.

Quoting AlitaliaDC10 (Thread starter):
Qantas will codeshare with AA to a total of 51 destinations in the US, Canada and
Mexico.

I'm surprised it isn't to more cities. DFW is a massive hub.

Quoting commavia (Reply 59):
DFW is just so much less chaotic

You want less chaotic? Your just not in tune with the 'spirit of LAX.'  
I'll stop before ranting about LAX's need for expansion... sigh...

Lightsaber

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Airvan00
Posted 2011-01-13 21:29:45 and read 28332 times.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 82):
The A380 is way too much capacity for this route. Can the A380 do ULH anyway?

How many seats do you think the QF A380's have??? QF flew 747's with more seats than the A380.
The LAX-MEL route, the exclusive domain of the most capable 747 the ER model, is being replaced by the early model A380's So if a 744ER can do it, the A380 can do it, no problem.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: MSPNWA
Posted 2011-01-13 21:35:06 and read 28163 times.

That's an exciting move for OW, DFW, and US-Australia travelers.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: PITrules
Posted 2011-01-13 21:36:12 and read 28196 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 78):

If true its an odd way to do business.

Its going to be a much steeper marketing curve to launch Jetstar from scratch at SFO then transition it from an ongoing QF flight. Once you shut down and leave you invariably will loose market awareness and goodwill.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 84):
It is going to be tough to wrestle the customers back from UA. I'm surprised they didn't do a frequency reduction.

Its not the first time QF dumped SFO

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: RB211-524H
Posted 2011-01-13 21:38:42 and read 28274 times.

Terrible terrible news for us Aussies who live in SFO and those Americans who aren't enslaved to their United mileage cards, our own carrier is abandoning us. I really enjoyed flying on QF73/74 multiple times throughout the year, the direct 14 hour flights on a 747 made Sydney seem pretty close. You get on, sleep, get up, watch a movie and you're home.

Now that we have to transit through LAX it's a full 18 hour trip minimum each way and everyone knows how much of a pain in the butt LA immigration is. It's either that or fly without PTVs the whole way on United.   Sad. Internationally for O&D traffic, SFO was a decent OneWorld hub - you could go to Asia on CX (double daily), Europe on BA (double daily) and Australia on QF (5x weekly), all of which I've done in the past and thoroughly enjoyed the ability to fly direct.

You disappoint me Qantas... V Australia would do well to fly SYD-SFO now given that the Virgin America hub is in SFO...

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: cpd
Posted 2011-01-13 21:51:37 and read 27964 times.

They should unleash Jetstar on United Airlines - try to squeeze the prices on UA on SYD-SFO route.

I doubt they'll get a lot of sympathy for leaving the route - especially pushing customers into UA's pretty mediocre economy class - that's a pretty nasty way of flying across the Pacific ocean.

V.Australia might find a way to get into SFO through all of this.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Aeroflot777
Posted 2011-01-13 21:58:25 and read 27826 times.

Quoting RB211-524H (Reply 88):
Now that we have to transit through LAX it's a full 18 hour trip minimum each way and everyone knows how much of a pain in the butt LA immigration is.

Have you ever tried flying through AKL on NZ?

Just curious whether that would be easier then connecting in LAX. Flew NZ to AKL a few month ago from here and it was such a breeze, quite a few people were continuing out to Australia.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: gabep
Posted 2011-01-13 22:04:30 and read 27724 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 28):
Says who? The pilots had a very unique opportunity to make a very public case with the China flights, unlike, say, flights to Delhi, which the pilots did not attempt to scuttle. And pilots likely won't make an issue with Miami-Tokyo, either.

The pilots.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: RB211-524H
Posted 2011-01-13 22:08:02 and read 27680 times.

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 90):
Have you ever tried flying through AKL on NZ?

No, being Oneworld sapphire status makes me quite biased in the airlines I choose to fly but rationally speaking I should rethink all of this. Although the only other airlines I fly regularly outside of Oneworld is the Virgin group who don't belong to any alliance.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: peanuts
Posted 2011-01-13 22:16:13 and read 27507 times.

Quoting RB211-524H (Reply 88):
Terrible terrible news for us Aussies who live in SFO and those Americans who aren't enslaved to their United mileage cards, our own carrier is abandoning us.
Quoting RB211-524H (Reply 92):
No, being Oneworld sapphire status makes me quite biased in the airlines I choose

Not to be splitting hairs but would this make you a bit enslaved to your status as well???  

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: TN486
Posted 2011-01-13 22:20:26 and read 27421 times.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 52):
OK , I admit it , I was skeptical and thought that this service would never be officially launched

If we were all honest with ourselves, then you are not alone, however, my post in another thread showed I was very optimistic after recent events, and it would appear the Leprachaun must have read my post as confirmation came very quickly (at least I can dream!!). Seriously, this has been in the wind for a while, and yes, it has been tipped that once the "dreamliner" arrives to JQ, they will do SFO. 12 months ago I suggested in a post somewhere that the Australian International and Domestic landscape would be very much different in 10 years, and that we should all hang on for the ride. The journey has started and some ride its going to be. Very exciting stuff. Hang on to those old timetables, they will be gold in 10.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: RB211-524H
Posted 2011-01-13 22:28:56 and read 27313 times.

Quoting peanuts (Reply 93):
Not to be splitting hairs but would this make you a bit enslaved to your status as well???  

Most definitely, but everyone knows that Oneworld is better   oops might have just started WW3. To be fair, I did enjoy return KLM MD11 on SFO-AMS, my 2 and only tri-holer flights but back to topic...my main gripe is that after May 16 I have no choice but to fly United between SYD and SFO if I want to go direct, just don't understand why QF will pull the route considering they had the potential to get good loads on a daily 744 when we consider their 5x weekly was always 100% full. SFO was a prestigious AND a profitable route

[Edited 2011-01-13 22:30:13]

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2011-01-13 22:36:34 and read 27303 times.

Quoting cpd (Reply 89):
UA's pretty mediocre economy class

In November of 2008, I flew a UA 744 from SFO to SYD. The interior fittings appeared to be the originals installed on the aircraft at delivery (sunrise colors). They had the old-fashioned massive RGB projector with -ready for this?- PRINTER PAPER taped up to replace a missing screen. The CRT monitors hanging over the aisles were so discolored and distorted as to be unviewable. The interior paneling was greyed and stained from decades of use. The seats were at least not as old as the interior.

The exterior of the aircraft was no better looking. The paint (battleship CS, of course) was dull, peeling in places, and the wings were filthy.

Now, the flight departed and arrived on time and did so without major incident. But, I have to say that if THIS was the sole US carrier serving Australia, I was ashamed to be American. When US carriers fly overseas, they not only represent their brand, but our country.

I flew UA because the price was right (reward ticket). After that trip, I canceled my UA MP visa and since then, I only fly UA when there is no other nonstop option to my destination, and sometimes not even then.

There are UA fanboys who will say that I should be grateful because I was paying for mere transport. Others will point out that I didn't pay... but I did pay. I paid in MP miles. I paid in brand loyalty and credit card fees. And, given that my experience on that flight cost UA my loyalty, I'd say that they would do well to take their onboard product more seriously.

The next time I fly to Australia, I'll be connecting at LAX and using Virgin or QF.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: laca773
Posted 2011-01-13 22:48:39 and read 27047 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 77):

Apparently packed-full 744's to SFO just aren't good enough. And that screws us at SFO because now our only nonstop is on UA, who are now free to offer crappy service and jack up prices as much as they like.

Not all is lost. If you don't mind a transfering via AKL and have a much better product all the way across the board, give NZ a try.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 78):
Anyhow, I think the whole thing might be a race with V Australia. For all we know they could commence a LAX-SFO tag if they wished come May 15th with one of the two 77Ws that sit around LAX half the day.

  . Does VA have any additional 77Ws on order?

Quoting RB211-524H (Reply 88):
Terrible terrible news for us Aussies who live in SFO and those Americans who aren't enslaved to their United mileage cards, our own carrier is abandoning us. I really enjoyed flying on QF73/74 multiple times throughout the year, the direct 14 hour flights on a 747 made Sydney seem pretty close. You get on, sleep, get up, watch a movie and you're home.

Now that we have to transit through LAX it's a full 18 hour trip minimum each way and everyone knows how much of a pain in the butt LA immigration is. It's either that or fly without PTVs the whole way on United. Sad. Internationally for O&D traffic, SFO was a decent OneWorld hub - you could go to Asia on CX (double daily), Europe on BA (double daily) and Australia on QF (5x weekly), all of which I've done in the past and thoroughly enjoyed the ability to fly direct.
Quoting cpd (Reply 89):

I doubt they'll get a lot of sympathy for leaving the route - especially pushing customers into UA's pretty mediocre economy class - that's a pretty nasty way of flying across the Pacific ocean.

Give NZ a try. Much better on all levels compared to UA.

Speaking of UA's sad 744s and the poor soft products offered in the main cabin, I just ran across an aricle posted on The Cranky Flier where UA's new guy in charge from CO, Jeff Smisek, speaks open and honestly about the poor product and inflight experience those who fly in Y is completely unacceptable and the new UA will be changing that.
Link: http://crankyflier.com/2011/01/10/un...tional-travel-experience-in-coach/

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: AirCanada787
Posted 2011-01-13 22:49:37 and read 27009 times.

Quoting Bartond (Reply 79):
it sounds like this is QF/AA scrambling to get a flight going between the SYD and DFW hubs, in response to CO's IAH-AKL flight.

Does anyone else think that maybe CO shouldn't have announced the IAH-AKL flight so far in advance then, after all they don't even have the equipment for it yet. Announcing it so far in advance gave other carriers time to make their own plans and launch service before CO.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: KELPkid
Posted 2011-01-13 22:56:18 and read 26911 times.

Any idea what equipment they will be using? DFW-BNE is 8300 miles according to the Great Circle mapper   . I also wonder if Mexico will allow them off-airways routing over the ground. Following airways over the CONUS and Mexico will add mileage onto the routing.

(not that it's an isse for QF), but I'd also love to see an ETOPS map for the route and see what ETOPS considerations would do to the routing.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: tayser
Posted 2011-01-13 23:05:33 and read 26765 times.

for all the energy & resources industries which have the executives based in MEL and IAH the net effect is pretty much nil - still a two stop service - one stop via AKL on COnited will be competitive. Very interesting nevertheless.

744ERs longest route at the moment:

MEL-LAX (or more to the poinmt LAX-MEL): 6883nm
and the new routes purportedly on a 747:
SYD-DFW: 7454nm
BNE-DFW: 7215nm
and for sh*ts and giggles: MEL-DFW: 7814nm

788 range: 7650-8200nm
789 range: 8000-8500nm
388 range: 8200nm

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: tayser
Posted 2011-01-13 23:13:14 and read 26669 times.

Here's another thought - this new flight would be somewhat sucky if they required a fuel stop (excessive winds etc) across the pacific... DFW-NAN/NOU-BNE-SYD... ouch - this route has got to be a candidate for eventual 787 or 380 flying.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: vhtje
Posted 2011-01-13 23:17:12 and read 26470 times.

I shall miss seeing the QF red tail as I drive along the 101. I

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: gemuser
Posted 2011-01-13 23:17:41 and read 26496 times.

Quoting RB211-524H (Reply 95):
SFO was a prestigious AND a profitable route

Hoe do you know this? Even if the flights were full (and I bet they were no better than 80 - 85% year round) that does NOT mean they were profitable! I love to see some numbers if you have them.

Gemuser

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: OA412
Posted 2011-01-13 23:25:36 and read 26404 times.

I think we're going to see a little more "connecting the dots" at DFW with respect to Oneworld hubs. I can definitely see DFW-SCL and DFW-BCN being added.

Quoting zeke (Reply 69):
, I think DFW will be the next port the A380 will serve in the USA as QF builds the new route and retires the 744s.

Agreed. I think this will definitely be an A380 route over time.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 77):
Apparently packed-full 744's to SFO just aren't good enough.

Packed, but apparently not paying the bills. However, it is too bad to see QF leaving SFO.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 81):
And what qualifies you to comment on the taste level in Dallas? You reside in Salt Lake City.

I'm going to assume that this comment was sarcastic in nature. However, in case it was not, I do not appreciate the insinuation that living in Salt Lake makes me some sort of rube who is incapable of commenting on tastefulness when you do not know my background or where else I've lived/visited. Second, if you would bother to scroll to the bottom of my post, you will notice a pair of smileys there which indicates that my post was lighthearted in nature. So, my suggestion is to lighten up and understand that my post is meant to be humorous and not much else.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: thegeek
Posted 2011-01-13 23:32:01 and read 26308 times.

A number of surprising aspects of this release. If yields are in the toilet on SYD-SFO, why not just cut back service to 3/week. It was only a few years back it was increased to 5/week, so I'd think it would have been doing well. Also, if SYD-DFW-BNE-SYD is to be a loss leader why the extra flight to 4/week? Same questions if aircraft availability is an issue. By then they should have some extra A380s and the damaged A380 should be repaired, so I'd be surprised if this is the reason.

Other surprising aspect is why the BNE stop on the return? Hardly saves any flight time, and weight restrictions would no doubt apply. AKL seems to be a better alternative for the load restriction issues, although a bit less convenient for those in Queensland.

One other point on J/W/Y, aren't they reconfiguring all their 744s into this config? Perhaps some aircraft will already be so configured by May. I'm not sure of the timetable for this one.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: gemuser
Posted 2011-01-13 23:35:33 and read 26296 times.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 105):

One other point on J/W/Y, aren't they reconfiguring all their 744s into this config? Perhaps some aircraft will already be so configured by May. I'm not sure of the timetable for this one.

Yes all 6 B744ERs & 3 B744s. I believe reconfiguring was to start mid year.

Gemuser

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Pellegrine
Posted 2011-01-13 23:44:48 and read 26087 times.

Not that this was any surprise to anyone...

...and in my estimation, QF should wait for the proper aircraft to fly this route SYD-DFW-SYD, and not stopping in BNE.

A388 could do it, B788 could do it, B789 could do it, but a 747-400ER? It's quite the stretch.
ESAD DFW-BNE has got to be circa 7500-7700nm+. Not saying it couldn't be done profitably, especially with high enough yields, but...even a full passenger payload is very questionable westbound quite a few days.

IMO QF is attempting to get a foothold in the market in anticipation of having the ideal equipment to operate this in the 'near' future. Just saying.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: SCL767
Posted 2011-01-13 23:47:25 and read 26094 times.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 104):
I think we're going to see a little more "connecting the dots" at DFW with respect to Oneworld hubs. I can definitely see DFW-SCL and DFW-BCN being added.

AA operates DFW-SCL daily, (B763). AA used to fly DFW-LIM but eventually dropped that route.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: OA412
Posted 2011-01-13 23:53:12 and read 25993 times.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 108):
AA operates DFW-SCL daily, (B763). AA used to fly DFW-LIM but eventually dropped that route.

Oh OK. Geez where have I been?  

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2011-01-14 00:01:37 and read 25932 times.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 104):
I can definitely see DFW-SCL and DFW-BCN being added.

DFW-BCN isn't happening. BCN is not a oneWorld hub, and Iberia mainline itself only flies to Madrid, Miami and Sao Paulo, with about a two dozen regional routes on Air Nostrum. That's it.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: ChopChop767
Posted 2011-01-14 00:06:05 and read 25855 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 96):

A few months back, I flew on a UA 747 from SFO to NRT. Granted it was the bulkhead of Economy Plus and there was no one in the middle seat, but I will say that I found the cabin (the new cabin) to be very comfortable, with calm color scheme and, despite the protests here, a great in-flight team. That being said, I recall hearing that when Smisek visited Australia, he indicated that UA had to improve it's long haul economy service to stay competitive on this route. I would think, that this strategy wouldn't be abandoned simply because QF is pulling out of SFO. Regardless, that route is going to be huge for UA.

Secondly, that's great news for DFW and SYD, linking the two oneworld hubs. I'm still surprised though that QF would pull out of SFO completely. I always see adds for low economy fares and vacation for OZ from the west coast, but travelling on United, the Premium cabins were almost ALWAYS full. Are the yields really that bad on the route?

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: thegeek
Posted 2011-01-14 00:44:18 and read 25291 times.

Quoting gemuser (Reply 106):

Yes all 6 B744ERs & 3 B744s. I believe reconfiguring was to start mid year.

So not in time then. Still not too long to have to sell F as J.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: airnewzealand
Posted 2011-01-14 01:00:17 and read 25159 times.

Hello Everyone,

I can confirm this has been in the works since 2008. The roadshows which were hosted by our then CEO Geoff Dixon confirmed to staff that EZE, DFW, AUH and another port in China were currently under evaluation and would be flown to within the next 5 years. EZE has now come to fruitition, DFW, and AUH may be off the cards as John Bolghetti, whom was at QF at the time was the spare head to head to the Middle East for Qantas, is now at V Australia, and lo and behold look where they are flying to First....AUH...

I can also tell you that EZE was being considered as the destination to drop, however, Qantas didnot want too as the 747 is the only aircraft, with the right capacity to run this route...therefore, SFO...which will turn into 787 -OR- run via AKL with A330-200... (If this isnt released within the next 6months then it is off the cards).

Can't wait to operate the route. Sad to see SFO go, it was an amazing destination for us crew. and yes, always full!!!

In regards to our aircraft...the first 747 to get upgraded is due our in August, so June will be heading to MX.

Cheers folks!!! Finally we go to a new destination...now lets expand more!!!

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: thegeek
Posted 2011-01-14 01:36:57 and read 24855 times.

What are all their 747s doing?

1 SYD-EZE
2 BNE-LAX
2 SYD-JNB
2 MEL-LAX
2 SYD-LAX
2 SYD-SFO
2 SYD-NRT
1-2 SYD-HKG
3 SYD-BKK-LAX
3 MEL-HKG-LHR
2-3 MEL-SIN-LHR
? Maintenance & reconfigs

I count 22-24 + Maintenance & reconfigs. They still have 26. Surely they do it more easily than dropping SYD-SFO?

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: ComeAndGo
Posted 2011-01-14 01:49:55 and read 24640 times.

Quoting RB211-524H (Reply 92):
Although the only other airlines I fly regularly outside of Oneworld is the Virgin group who don't belong to any alliance

Air New Zealand has the same business class seats as Virgin Atlantic. If you do fly biz.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: PA515
Posted 2011-01-14 02:10:25 and read 24442 times.

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 71):
I'm wondering whether NZ had some kind of advance intelligence of the QF move to switch from SFO to DFW. During 2011 they ramp up their AKL-SFO flights (which connect pretty seamlessly to and from five Australian ports) from 5 x 77E weekly to 7 x 744 weekly.

Yes, quite a confident move. Hardly a coincidence.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 97):
Does VA have any additional 77Ws on order?

They have an option for a 6th 77W for Feb 2012 delivery but intend to use it on BNE-AUH-BNE three days a week from Feb 2012. That order will have to be firmed up very soon.

PA515

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: cpd
Posted 2011-01-14 02:19:20 and read 24347 times.

Quoting ChopChop767 (Reply 111):
great in-flight team. That being said, I recall hearing that when Smisek visited Australia, he indicated that UA had to improve it's long haul economy service to stay competitive on this route

The staff I found to be very pleasant and cheerful actually. But the economy class is not very nice. There just isn't a lot to take your mind off long flights. Seatback interactive entertainment devices with gaming, news and movies are a great way to make passengers forget about the length of a flight. Even if they didn't give more space in economy class, doing that would be a big difference.

I'd be surprised if this new DFW route doesn't go A380 quite soon. Another A380 is supposed to arrive for QF tomorrow night (VH-OQI), - bringing them up to the following ones:

VH-OQB
VH-OQD
VH-OQE
VH-OQF
VH-OQG
VH-OQI

Not mentioned are:
VH-OQA (damaged in Singapore)
VH-OQC (last seen still parked in Hanger 96 a week ago, Sydney airport, where it has been since the A380 incident in November last year)
VH-OQH (scheduled to arrive, but has been delayed a few times)

I'd guess the A380 is far more capable than the B744/ER for these long range routes.

Quoting airnewzealand (Reply 113):
is now at V Australia, and lo and behold look where they are flying to First....AUH...

Code-share agreement with Etihad, rather than V.Australia physically flying there.

[Edited 2011-01-14 02:28:17]

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: jrfspa320
Posted 2011-01-14 02:20:11 and read 24332 times.

Does the 332 not have the range for SYD-SFO, either QF or JQ?

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: jensobreuer
Posted 2011-01-14 02:21:00 and read 24342 times.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 114):

You forgot the FRA route ...   

Cheers, Jens

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: BNEFlyer
Posted 2011-01-14 02:30:49 and read 24298 times.

Schedule is:
QF7 - SYD-DFW - 15h25m
QF8 - DFW-BNE - 16h00m

Equipment is going to be a 747-400, wouldn't be surprised if it's an ER sometimes.

NEVER thought I'd see DFW on an arrivals board at BNE, especially as a non stop flight!

Also curious to note that it's not BNE-SYD-DFW-BNE-SYD, but SYD-DFW-BNE-SYD. To fly BNE-DFW one has to connect in SYD on a QF domestic flight then transfer over to the International terminal. The flight will continue to SYD after arriving in BNE (obviously) so if you're final destination is SYD that's where you'll clear customs & immigration.

Anyone know if they'll sell BNE-SYD as a domestic leg as well a la QF20? It's been a long time since BNE-SYD could be flown on a 744.

Also as a side note VA's flight numbers to LAX are VA7/8. QF now has QF1-32 allocated x-QF13/14 & 23/24.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: zeke
Posted 2011-01-14 02:40:25 and read 24123 times.

Quoting jrfspa320 (Reply 118):
Does the 332 not have the range for SYD-SFO, either QF or JQ?

I would not think so with an economical payload with the strong enroute headwinds, however a SFO-AKL would be almost a carbon copy of the LAX-AKL service with the A330, which as we know is possible.

JQ on the other hand I think would go via HNL if they were allowed looking for the leisure market.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: jrfspa320
Posted 2011-01-14 03:41:05 and read 23485 times.

Just as a sidenote are there any plans for Y+ for the A330s in sure would be useful for the pacific and asian routes?

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: 747m8te
Posted 2011-01-14 03:47:09 and read 23484 times.

OMG i just realised....its even better....once again we may be able to book on the domestic leg of the BNE-SYD sector of the flight and get the 747 down to SYD     

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Jackbr
Posted 2011-01-14 04:13:34 and read 23191 times.

Will this announcement make the SYD-SFO flights a more senior destination for crews until the deletion?

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: The Coachman
Posted 2011-01-14 04:22:37 and read 23163 times.

Not. Happy. Jan.

Unfortunately QF knows that people will go via LAX to go to SFO rather than endure UA.

Can't see JQ on the route, lowers the QF brand (if it isn't low enough in SFO already)

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: AA1818
Posted 2011-01-14 04:42:55 and read 22854 times.

Quoting realsim (Reply 22):
The long-haul destinations from DFW are quite impressive

All that is missing is a link to Africa and perhaps HKG (hint hint).

AA1818

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: QANTASFOREVER2
Posted 2011-01-14 04:45:14 and read 22911 times.

Booked it today.

QF have a mean sale going on. Win!

Dallas here I come.....for an hour or so before I fly to somewhere I actually want to visit.

Fascinating to see if QF market Dallas as anything other than an AA hub.

Thoughts?

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: BMI727
Posted 2011-01-14 04:46:07 and read 22820 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 65):
You are going to fly SFO-DFW-BNE-SYD when you could be in LAX in 50mins and your destination SYD some 5-6 hours quicker?

I'm not from SFO.

Quoting tayser (Reply 101):
this route has got to be a candidate for eventual 787 or 380 flying.

I was surprised it wasn't starting with an A380. I think it will move to 787 daily rather than a larger plane at four weekly.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: jfk777
Posted 2011-01-14 05:05:18 and read 22597 times.

Qantas has been talking about DFW since the 744ER were delivered, what took them so long ? Delta and V Australia probably caused them to do it since QF probably has lost passengers at LAX. The DFW hub drops the connection time for many to 3 hours from the east coast instead of 5-6 hours to LAX. Great going QF but where were you 10 years ago ?

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: seabosdca
Posted 2011-01-14 05:09:15 and read 22523 times.

Quite surprised they started this route with the 747. They are going to have frequent operational issues. I was expecting this to happen only when the 787-9 came online, and even it will struggle if they try to fly DFW-SYD nonstop.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: cpd
Posted 2011-01-14 05:11:03 and read 22504 times.

Quoting The Coachman (Reply 125):
Not. Happy. Jan.

Let me put that better for you (for those who aren't in Australia - listen near the end): 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG9tiaY-2Qo

It wasn't what was said, but the way it was said.  Wink
Quoting The Coachman (Reply 125):
Unfortunately QF knows that people will go via LAX to go to SFO rather than endure UA.

So very true. With LAX going back to A380 again, why not. Even with a stop, the A380 is worth the extra hassle at the end over the 747.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 128):
I think it will move to 787 daily rather than a larger plane at four weekly.

That still has to be delivered - and it's not out of the testing stage yet. Still some way to go for it.

[Edited 2011-01-14 05:15:13]

[Edited 2011-01-14 05:16:35]

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: nonrevman
Posted 2011-01-14 05:24:10 and read 22293 times.

I really have benefited from this change! A couple of months ago, I booked a ticket on Qantas going from DFW-SFO-SYD at a decent fare. This will be my first time to visit Australia. DFW-SFO was on AA and of course QF was SFO-SYD. Well, I called them this morning and had my flights changed to the direct ones. They were going to have to reroute me anyway because the SFO flight is no more in July. It will be a long flight from DFW, but I so happy to be on the same plane with no connections. This is great!

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: BNEFlyer
Posted 2011-01-14 05:24:24 and read 22285 times.

Quoting cpd (Reply 117):
Quoting airnewzealand (Reply 113):
is now at V Australia, and lo and behold look where they are flying to First....AUH...

Code-share agreement with Etihad, rather than V.Australia physically flying there.

In addition to the code shared services VA are flying VA29/30 SYD-AUH-SYD from February 2011 and from BNE Feb 2012.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: BMI727
Posted 2011-01-14 05:40:05 and read 22064 times.

Quoting cpd (Reply 131):
That still has to be delivered - and it's not out of the testing stage yet. Still some way to go for it.

QF ordered the -9 so it's not happening until at least 2013.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: JQflightie
Posted 2011-01-14 05:50:56 and read 21962 times.

ive just noticed something, whilst looking at how many seats had been sold so far for QF7 16MAY11 , and couldnt help but notice SFO is still loaded... just thought id share that with you all

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: United_fan
Posted 2011-01-14 06:02:00 and read 21776 times.

16 hours in a center Y seat does not sound like fun at all.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: QF762
Posted 2011-01-14 06:02:22 and read 21833 times.

This I found very interesting from The Qantas Source: (haven't seen it mentioned yet, apologies if it has been)

"QANTAS will receive a rebate on fees from Dallas-Fort Worth airport [totalling] US$3.1 Million over the first two years of the service. This will more than cover all landing fees and airport charges for the period with the surplus to be used for marketing."

Sad to see SFO go 

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: jfk777
Posted 2011-01-14 06:05:08 and read 21782 times.

Quoting cpd (Reply 117):
I'd guess the A380 is far more capable than the B744/ER for these long range routes.

Given what happened in Singapore QF is not going to use the full capability of an A380 on an LONG flight. That is how they got in trouble. Since DFW -SYD is longer then LAX, the A380's will stay at LAX.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: gemuser
Posted 2011-01-14 06:15:51 and read 21595 times.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 138):
Given what happened in Singapore QF is not going to use the full capability of an A380 on an LONG flight. That is how they got in trouble. Since DFW -SYD is longer then LAX, the A380's will stay at LAX.

True ONLY in the short term. The Trent engine problems will be resolved in due course and IMHO it will be the post 2012 (3 class) A380 that will take over SYD-DFW.

Gemuser

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: QANTASFOREVER2
Posted 2011-01-14 06:19:08 and read 21517 times.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 138):
Given what happened in Singapore QF is not going to use the full capability of an A380 on an LONG flight. That is how they got in trouble.

If that is the case then Qantas should be suing Airbus into bankruptcy.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: sccutler
Posted 2011-01-14 06:43:41 and read 21223 times.

Quoting QANTASFOREVER2 (Reply 127):

Dallas here I come.....for an hour or so before I fly to somewhere I actually want to visit.

Fascinating to see if QF market Dallas as anything other than an SA)">AA hub.

Thoughts?

I predict that they will do so, with considerable success. Texas is a good destination.

Analogy : When I visited Australia, I (of course) spent time in Sydney; but I was in SA (Adelaide and environs) for quite a while, and enjoyed it immensely - a really beautiful and welcoming place.

Texas has a great deal to offer visitors, both tourist and business.

Also worth noting: as California's decline as a place to do business continues, Texas' (and other southern states, as well) ascendancy continues; this is likely to be a valuable business route for QF.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: peanuts
Posted 2011-01-14 07:02:30 and read 20930 times.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 141):
Also worth noting: as California's decline as a place to do business continues, Texas' (and other southern states, as well) ascendancy continues; this is likely to be a valuable business route for QF.

I agree. Even though California can't be written off, they are in a heap of trouble!

I give QF the credit for actually implementing the change that was hanging over LAX's head. CO tried to steal their thunder by making a pre-mature announcement on IAH-AKL (even though I still think AKL is so very different impact wise than SYD in my opinion). It was really QF's first move to make and in the end, they delivered.

This (SYD-DFW) marks a significant step in global alliance strategies. We will see more of it.

[Edited 2011-01-14 07:51:34]

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: AirNZ
Posted 2011-01-14 07:09:26 and read 20787 times.

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 8):
But in today's environment, hub-to-hub is the way to go over direct flights to 'historic' or 'prestigious' destinations. The demand for both low fares and increased frequency both dictate such.

Sorry, but I don't see that it is at all in this context. What "demand for low fares and increased frequency has relevance to SYD-DFW? Indeed, in the statement "giving Australians unprecedented access to destinations across the United States." is absolute balderdash.....what 'unprecedented access' to destinations will exist for passengers that didn't before? Nothing wrong with the route of course, but it is one which suits/helps QF more than for any 'improvement' for passengers.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: seabosdca
Posted 2011-01-14 07:22:07 and read 20625 times.

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 143):
.what 'unprecedented access' to destinations will exist for passengers that didn't before?

Do you really mean this? AA has a much wider network from DFW than from LAX or SFO. DFW is their biggest fortress hub while LAX is barely a hub at all.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: mogandoCI
Posted 2011-01-14 07:25:28 and read 20606 times.

Quoting BNEFlyer (Reply 120):
Schedule is:
QF7 - SYD-DFW - 15h25m
QF8 - DFW-BNE - 16h00m

that's pretty fast. the eastbound HKG-EWR on CO is only blocked at 15:20, and that flight is a good 513 miles shorter. Guess QF will be flying theirs at like the sonic cruiser  

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: brons2
Posted 2011-01-14 07:39:04 and read 20364 times.

This is so awesome for those of us in the south central US! Quick trip up to DFW and then we're off with QF! Whoopee!!!

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: UAL777UK
Posted 2011-01-14 07:49:05 and read 20239 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 65):
so QF leaving SFO should solidify the SFO flights loads and performance now.

So you don't see UA going double daily out of SFO then to solidify their dominance and ward off anyone else who has ideas of starting the route? Thre is rumours UA will upgrade the Y class on the 744's, that would certinaly help but those birds are always going out full anyway.

Good news for QF, the new route will surely be a winner for them.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: KELPkid
Posted 2011-01-14 07:54:08 and read 20095 times.

Quoting QANTASFOREVER2 (Reply 127):
Fascinating to see if QF market Dallas as anything other than an AA hub.

Thoughts?

Plenty to see and do there....I hope they do market it as a destination. Not so sure Aussies would want to visit in the middle of northern hemisphere summer, though...the place gets quite warm and quite humid.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: sunrisevalley
Posted 2011-01-14 07:55:02 and read 20104 times.

[quote=mogandoCI,reply=145]that's pretty fast. the eastbound HKG-EWR on CO is only blocked at 15:20, and that flight is a good 513 miles shorter. Guess QF will be flying theirs at like the sonic cruiser


Based on the gate to gate times they appear to be figuring on about 30k tail winds east bound and 26k on the nose westbound.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: peanuts
Posted 2011-01-14 07:59:31 and read 20062 times.

Don't forget, it also eases pressure on AA at LAX as its feeder duties for QF flights at LAX are relieved a bit. AA can use this released capacity on other profitable routes, including JV traffic with JL.

As a natural consequence, aside from increased alliance competition, I believe LAX will see no significant QF growth anymore. If anything, SFO would be reinstated first.
DL and VA have made an impact already on the margins for everyone between LAX-SYD.

Remember back in the day, all Europe-USA flights went to NYC? Over time, NYC was overflown.
Now we see a similar trend but for different reasons. Alliances this time are dictating some of the traffic flows.
LAX obviously still has merit, but alliance strategies and new plane developments determine some of the shifts we are seeing here.

DL is probably wishing ATL-SYD was feasible technically/operationally today.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Zkpilot
Posted 2011-01-14 08:01:46 and read 20059 times.

Quoting ThomasCook (Reply 23):
It appears to be a 3 class B747 (J/W/Y) which are all non ERs.
Quoting blink182 (Reply 67):

How will the BNE stopover be handled? Will all ex-DFW pax be required to clear customs and immigration before resuming to SYD, thus basically making BNE a connection point for other Australian cities? Where will the aircraft park in SYD?

The flight will continue on to SYD operating as an International flight. Pax will clear customs/immigration in SYD. Pax will be able to have BNE as a destination however.
Domestic pax wanting to fly to SYD will also be able to fly on this flight... they will simply have the "D" for Domestic put on their boarding pass and effectively bypass immigration etc. These flights are quite popular due to flying a on 744 rather than a 737/767

Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 74):

Australia is like the rest of the world (except the US). Pax will clear customs at either BNE or SYD. So if heading for Cairns they will get off in BNE and clear customs there, but if coming south they may be allowed to stay on the aircraft or spend a bit of time stretching their legs in the transit shopping mall. In SYD the aircraft will park at the international terminal (all QF flight numbers below 400 park there) where remaining passengers will clear customs..

  

Quoting jrfspa320 (Reply 118):
Does the 332 not have the range for SYD-SFO, either QF or JQ?

Hell no. Not without being almost empty. LAX-AKL is already really stretching it. Remember in the Airbus family, the A340 is the long-range aircraft, the A330 is more regional.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2011-01-14 08:05:36 and read 20000 times.

So do you think V Australia will start SFO? Given VX is hubbed here...

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: laca773
Posted 2011-01-14 08:14:12 and read 19836 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 152):
So do you think V Australia will start SFO? Given VX is hubbed here...

Myself, I will not be surprised if we hear an announcement sometime this year from VA stating they plan on starting SYD-SFO 4X a week to start. With VX having their main hub @ SFO, I can see it all fitting together nicely.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: airbazar
Posted 2011-01-14 08:30:53 and read 19565 times.

Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 41):
Sounds like and ideal route for a A380 Any bets on when the 744ER's will be replaced by the A380

I predict you'll be seeing the A380 on this route as soon the engine issues are resolved. Yes, I know about the operating restrictions that the A380 has at DFW currently but I also think some middle ground will be reached before the taxiways and bridges can be fully upgraded.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 56):
Even the longest flight on a 77L (DL ATL-JNB) is shorter than SYD-DFW.

ATL-JNB is not a problem. It's JNB-ATL that's a problem and that has nothing to do with the distance but rather the altitude of JNB.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: enilria
Posted 2011-01-14 08:37:35 and read 19455 times.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 7):
Interesting news. I think we all knew that this was bound to happen. And, with COs announcement of IAH-AKL earlier this year, it was only a matter of time before QF/AA decided to get in on the game as a counterweight.

I had the same thought. That's exactly why you don't announce things forever in advance.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2011-01-14 08:54:50 and read 19247 times.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 153):
Myself, I will not be surprised if we hear an announcement sometime this year from VA stating they plan on starting SYD-SFO 4X a week to start. With VX having their main hub @ SFO, I can see it all fitting together nicely.

VA already connects to VX in LAX, and more importantly DL. Not sure what, if anything, VX at SFO would gain VA other than a smaller market and an irrelevant partner.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: AdmiralRitt
Posted 2011-01-14 09:26:58 and read 18838 times.

Dallas, anususpecting Australian man lands...who.needs to fly futher north...

and the AA ticket agent says. "Yes, we have planes there and you can choose

any plane as long as it's an MD83."

You search you memory... it can't be the MD83's they are all extinct, part of the beer can I just chuked in the waste bin.

And as as you walk to you gate it's dawns on you as you see your plane

THEY BROUGHT THEM BACK AS ZOMBIES. And as you get on board and realize that Y class has no

Food service, then it hits you the plane digested it's own galley and regurgitated them as extra seats,

and as the 4 vodka sours take effect you are glad you are slipping to unciousness cause those paleo-JT8D's

cannot be bargained with and show now pity or remorse at anyones 4 excedrin headache.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: QANTASFOREVER2
Posted 2011-01-14 10:46:15 and read 17831 times.

Quoting AdmiralRitt (Reply 158):
anususpecting

That word alone made your post the best thing in this thread.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: flyby519
Posted 2011-01-14 10:58:21 and read 17658 times.

In an attempt to get this train back on course... I found this interview from June 2010 where the EVP of DFW Airport talks about Qantas service among other routes like VX. Pretty interesting to see all that has come true.

Quote:
We're here at the D/FW International Airport board retreat, where the board and its staff sort of think out loud about where the airport is headed. We'll file a story tomorrow about changes to the lease agreement D/FW has with airlines and how the airport needs to basically double its concession revenue over the next decade to cover its higher debt payments it will have because it needs to add $2 billion in debt.

Here are the highlights from Joe Lopano, D/FW's executive vice president for marketing, on what the airport's international service picture will look like in three to five years. We've got 38 international destinations today, and here's what Joe is going on the record to predict:

It's a long list of maybes, so click if you want to keep reading.

We'll have service to:

- More cities in Mexico, courtesy of American Airlines buying regional jets that fit more markets

- Service to China on American, likely, especially if American can make more partnerships happen through its alliance

- Sydney service - Qantas wants to serve this city from D/FW, but simply doesn't have the right airplane today.

- Manchester England - the anti-trust immunity with British Airways will make it an easy addition.

- Either Dubai or Abu Dhabi in the U.A.E. - Joe says they've made big strides with U.A.E. officials to getting this service going

- More flying over Korea, which opens more gateways to Asia

- Munich, courtesy of Lufthansa's hub there

- Barcelona - it's as big a market as Madrid is already, and American upsized the flying there to a 777 recently (though is it just summer for that?). The ATI with BA and Iberia will help build the case for this.

- We'll get Lima, Peru back - American needs a 737 with the right engines to fly it. A 757 is too big of a plane for AA to make it work.

- More seats to London - British Airways is going to upsize to a 747 from a 777 to Heathrow, and the idea of an A380 - really! - isn't off the table because the biggest Oneworld hub remains D/FW, Lopano said. Also, D/FW is among the few airports that can handle an A380.

Domestically, Lopano said they're getting close to getting JetBlue to serve New York and Boston from D/FW, and the cooperation between AA and JetBlue on the East Coast may make that kind of route more appealing for JetBlue, which has steered clear of AA in most respects outside of New York.

Lopano will ask the airport board next week for $800,000 to boost Mexico marketing, as D/FW wants to win some of Houston's Mexico connection traffic. "D/FW is a much better connecting city than Houston and we're better than Miami," Lopano said.

Not all international fliers are doing all that well at D/FW - KLM was close to bailing on the market as its load factor had dropped to 37 percent early in the year on its D/FW to Amsterdam flight - (Yeow....).

D/FW said they met with Delta Air Lines sales force and had them work with KLM people to figure out why the flight wasn't working - loads are now back in the 70s and that's become a success story. Lopano said the Delta/Northwest merger had created some confusion in the sales staff for KLM.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: gdg9
Posted 2011-01-14 11:11:30 and read 17502 times.

Quoting QF762 (Reply 137):
This I found very interesting from The Qantas Source: (haven't seen it mentioned yet, apologies if it has been)

"QANTAS will receive a rebate on fees from Dallas-Fort Worth airport [totalling] US$3.1 Million over the first two years of the service. This will more than cover all landing fees and airport charges for the period with the surplus to be used for marketing."

This is not surprising. DFW gives free landing fees away to attract new carriers. KLM got a sweet deal and I would suspect, although I don't know for sure, that Virgin America also got something to the like.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: nonrevman
Posted 2011-01-14 11:15:15 and read 17445 times.

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 161):
- Sydney service - Qantas wants to serve this city from D/FW, but simply doesn't have the right airplane today.

A curious statement by the DFW airport board considering that Qantas had the 744 all along and this is the aircraft they will be using. Cannot wait until this summer.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Longhornmaniac
Posted 2011-01-14 11:19:14 and read 17356 times.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 145):
that's pretty fast. the eastbound HKG-EWR on CO is only blocked at 15:20, and that flight is a good 513 miles shorter. Guess QF will be flying theirs at like the sonic cruiser

Building off an earlier post, the main reason for this discrepancy is that the HKG-EWR flight is basically polar, so there isn't as much benefit from the tailwinds as you'd get on a SYD-DFW flight. That's why it's only 5 minutes shorter block time, despite being over 500 miles shorter.

Cheers,
Cameron

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Irishpower
Posted 2011-01-14 11:21:41 and read 17339 times.

Give it a few years. Once the 787 come online I'm sure QF will be back in SFO. Never say never. Like the previous threads have stated once business in California picks up and the US economy stabilizes a bit QF will be back. If I was guessing I would say summer of 2015.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: bps3458
Posted 2011-01-14 11:46:08 and read 16947 times.

What a timely surprise. Have family living in Houston and we are planning to visit them this coming Christmas but when I saw the deal QF was/is offering for flights until November 30, 1,1 told my sister to forget about Christmas but that we would spend Thanksgiving together.

Booked our entire family (2 adults, 3 children between 2-11) in economy BNE-SYD-DFW-BNE for an unbeatable total price of A$ 4,356.00 !!!!!! Going Oct. 29 returning Nov. 26. What a deal. Hope the route does well. Same flight in December would have cost around A$ 11,000 for all five of us.

Did not read all of the posts so forgive me if same question has been asked and answered above, does any one see a chance of this flight changing from a 744 to a 388 any time soon ?

Cheers from Brisbane,

Peter

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2011-01-14 11:48:22 and read 16939 times.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 126):
All that is missing is a link to Africa

SYD-PER-NBO would be really nice....there are tons of Australians visiting that part of the continent and lots of ex-pats. 789 4Xpw would be the right aircraft.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: mogandoCI
Posted 2011-01-14 11:51:30 and read 16912 times.

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 164):
Building off an earlier post, the main reason for this discrepancy is that the HKG-EWR flight is basically polar, so there isn't as much benefit from the tailwinds as you'd get on a SYD-DFW flight. That's why it's only 5 minutes shorter block time, despite being over 500 miles shorter.

EWR-HKG is polar, but HKG-EWR is directly across the pacific : going up to Japan, then traverse to Anchorage before curving through Canada through Toronto into NYC, so i'm sure tailwinds play a sizable factor... when i flew that flight, we frequently exceed ground speeds of 1000kmph

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: kiwiandrew
Posted 2011-01-14 11:52:16 and read 16864 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 167):

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 126):
All that is missing is a link to Africa

SYD-PER-NBO would be really nice....there are tons of Australians visiting that part of the continent and lots of ex-pats. 789 4Xpw would be the right aircraft.

I think the poster meant a link from DFW to Africa since they were replying to a post about the variety of destinations available from DFW.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: kiwiandrew
Posted 2011-01-14 11:57:26 and read 16828 times.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-sydney-san-francisco-service.html

....Qantas's five-times-weekly direct service on the Sydney-San Francisco route will be discontinued on 14 May. From this time, Qantas will service San Francisco by placing its codes on American Airlines flights on the Los Angeles-San Francisco route. According to Innovata, Qantas operates eight-times weekly on the Sydney-Los Angeles route using a mix of Airbus A-380-800s, 747-400s, and 777s....   

All those people over the years who have criticised QF for not ordering the 777 will no doubt be immensely pleased to discover that they have had them all along but have presumably been operating them in stealth mode .

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: mogandoCI
Posted 2011-01-14 12:28:41 and read 16393 times.

Quoting bps3458 (Reply 166):
Booked our entire family (2 adults, 3 children between 2-11) in economy BNE-SYD-DFW-BNE for an unbeatable total price of A$ 4,356.00 !!!!!! Going Oct. 29 returning Nov. 26. What a deal. Hope the route does well. Same flight in December would have cost around A$ 11,000 for all five of us.

you're still doing BNE-SYD-DFW-IAH-DFW-BNE ... in the future, with CO, that 5 leg trip will be truncated to only 4 legs : BNE-AKL-IAH-AKL-BNE

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: goldenstate
Posted 2011-01-14 12:35:59 and read 16291 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 28):
Says who? The pilots had a very unique opportunity to make a very public case with the China flights, unlike, say, flights to Delhi, which the pilots did not attempt to scuttle. And pilots likely won't make an issue with Miami-Tokyo, either.

Delhi predated the DFW-PEK application. Why do you think that the pilots won't take issue with a hypothetical MIA-NRT route. I find it hard to believe that APA would agree to waive contractual limits or that AA would make any concessions necessary to convince them to do so, all during protracted contract negotiations.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 78):
Anyhow, I think the whole thing might be a race with V Australia. For all we know they could commence a LAX-SFO tag if they wished come May 15th with one of the two 77Ws that sit around LAX half the day.

Or if the DJ/DL JV is approved, coordinate schedules and fares with DL and route traffic over LAX and onto DL metal at far lower cost than two daily short haul 77W sectors.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 141):
Also worth noting: as California's decline as a place to do business continues, Texas' (and other southern states, as well) ascendancy continues; this is likely to be a valuable business route for QF.


Without a doubt, QF to SYD is a big win for the D/FW Metroplex and Texas, but connectivity to other regions from the AA hub is what will drive the bulk of traffic on this route and in fact improve the ability of QF and AA to focus their LAX flights on local demand.

Despite its well documented problems, California remains the largest, most dynamic, and most diverse economy in the U.S., and not by a small margin. SFO obviously didn't work out for Qantas but I wouldn't extrapolate macroeconomic trends or a story about comparative economic development from that. On the micro level, the Bay Area retains a daily nonstop link to Sydney through United, and on the macro level, California's demand for international air travel will probably continue to grow over time, just as it has over the last 50 years.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: swissair4ever
Posted 2011-01-14 12:48:06 and read 16098 times.

I for one am thrilled that dfw is getting this service! They deserve it and it will do great!!
Of course all the IAH lovers on this board are probably fuming and hissing, but I say it's about time
DFW is in the spotlight. IAH from a connecting, customs, transit experience is far WORSE
than terminal D at DFW.

Oh.....and I definitely think CO are totally wishing they hadn't made such a route announcement
As IAH AKL so far in advance. They knew QF was coming and were trying to one up them
....looks like the jokes on the new UA/CO !

Congrats to DFW and QF!!!!!! I will go out of my way to take a conx through DFW and QF anyday over
LAX and definitely over IAH when the AKL service starts. ( even though I know the current CO offers a nice international product )

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: psa1011
Posted 2011-01-14 13:44:02 and read 15391 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 152):

Hell no. Not without being almost empty. LAX-AKL is already really stretching it. Remember in the Airbus family, the A340 is the long-range aircraft, the A330 is more regional.

My first post!

Speaking QF's LAX-AKL, why doesn't NZ start SFO-SYD? Furthermore, why doesn't NZ just take over SFO-AKL/SYD from UA?

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: United_fan
Posted 2011-01-14 13:53:13 and read 15263 times.

That 744 is sure going to use a lot of runway when its 110+ in DFW in the Summer!

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: n471wn
Posted 2011-01-14 14:09:20 and read 15102 times.

Quoting psa1011 (Reply 174):
Speaking QF's LAX-AKL, why doesn't NZ start SFO-SYD? Furthermore, why doesn't NZ just take over SFO-AKL/SYD from UA?

Yes please help us here other carriers----we only fly United as a last resort!!!

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: ThomasCook
Posted 2011-01-14 14:18:56 and read 14988 times.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 170):
All those people over the years who have criticised QF for not ordering the 777 will no doubt be immensely pleased to discover that they have had them all along but have presumably been operating them in stealth mode .

Not a good article from Flight Global here; also stating QF only fly SYD-LAX 8 times a week instead of the actual figure of up to 3 x daily if you include the AKL tag.

ThomasCook

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: gdg9
Posted 2011-01-14 14:48:31 and read 14593 times.

Quoting United_fan (Reply 175):
That 744 is sure going to use a lot of runway when its 110+ in DFW in the Summer!

13,400 feet is available

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: alangirvan
Posted 2011-01-14 15:07:29 and read 14413 times.

"By placing its code on American flights operating from DFW, thirteen US and three Mexican destinations will join the Qantas network. These include Albuquerque, Boise, Cleveland, Washington DC (Regan National), El Paso, New York (La Guardia), Kansas City, Oklahoma, Phoenix, San Antonio, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, Tucson, Cancun, Guadalajara, and Mexico City."

Is it really easier to get to Sacramento via DFW rather than via LAX? And Phoenix, SLC and Boise? Some of those cities seem like obvious places to connect to via SFO, if not on the AA network.

I note that the DFW QF/AA arrangement does not list Boston or Philadelphia - are these still easier to reach via LAX? There are no Florida cities listed via DFW

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 178):
Quoting United_fan (Reply 175):
That 744 is sure going to use a lot of runway when its 110+ in DFW in the Summer!

Do you expect the temperature to be 110+ at 2200?

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Bartond
Posted 2011-01-14 15:09:02 and read 14393 times.

The longer the takeoff, the more majestic the plane seems, if you ask me. There's something really cool about watching a heavy use up almost all of the runway and slowly climbing off in to the distance.

Sorta like every A343 and A346 does every time it takes off...heh heh.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: tayser
Posted 2011-01-14 15:34:20 and read 14181 times.

Quoting psa1011 (Reply 174):
Speaking QF's LAX-AKL, why doesn't NZ start SFO-SYD? Furthermore, why doesn't NZ just take over SFO-AKL/SYD from UA?

You're highlighting a good point - since the 80s and the effective start of Australia-New Zealand's EU-like aviation policy (NZ carriers can originate anywhere in Australia and fly elsewhere avoiding NZ and vice versa) - NZ, while naturally being the smaller carrier compared to QF, hasn't really taken up the opportunities that are on offer - most likely comes down to lack of aircraft. It would be nice if Rob Fyfe could think big and start ordering more 77Ws to start Australian-elsewhere services, we're a much larger market than their own, sitting and waiting for more competition, time to pull your finger out NZ.

Which leads me to the next point - it was mentioned earlier on in the thread, but barely discussed - apart from the new route what actually interests me the most:

Quote:
“Alongside our entry into DFW, Qantas and American Airlines intend to deepen their
existing relationship and will be seeking regulatory approval from the Australian
Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) and other relevant authorities for
this expanded commercial relationship,” Mr Joyce said.
“We have worked closely with American Airlines over many years, and with the
commencement of services to Dallas/Fort Worth we look forward to taking our
partnership to a new level and providing new and enhanced benefits for consumers
in Australia and the United States.”

(from, the QF press release).

First we had DL & DJ going for a JV. Now it appears to be QF and AA are going down that route.... and maybe now NZ, UA and AC could finally get approval to do the same thing from the ACCC. AC and NZ's pitch to form a JV/revenue sharing type agreement was knocked back by the ACCC saw no benefit to Australia given no Australian carrier was in the Canadian market - if I remember correctly for instance NZ codes were going on AC's YVR-SYD flight and they wanted to share revenue.

This might all change with QF and AA formalising / deepening their relationship.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: MileHighOffice
Posted 2011-01-14 15:52:37 and read 14087 times.

This is greatnews! I always said it would happen but about fell out of ,y chair when it actually did!

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: AusA380
Posted 2011-01-14 16:10:05 and read 13995 times.

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 177):
"By placing its code on American flights operating from DFW, thirteen US and three Mexican destinations will join the Qantas network. These include Albuquerque, Boise, Cleveland, Washington DC (Regan National), El Paso, New York (La Guardia), Kansas City, Oklahoma, Phoenix, San Antonio, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, Tucson, Cancun, Guadalajara, and Mexico City."

I was hoping the RDU might make the list, but then again RDU seems to be falling of the AA radar

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: The Coachman
Posted 2011-01-14 16:20:34 and read 13975 times.

A few points for discussion.

1) This will improve yields on SYD-LAX one would think due to fewer pax going via LAX to destinations like JFK/LGA, BOS, IAD/DCA, PHL, MIA, ORD (though in some of these cases, it will still be possible to go LAX).

2) Until the westbound leg is done non-stop to SYD, it loses its appeal somewhat though BNE is a better airport to spend a bit of time transiting than LAX.

3) I think once 380 availability opens up, it will go on SYD-DFW non-stop and frequencies will increase. BNE will lose out (again).

4) I predict QF operations to JFK may get the axe - pax north of SYD will go to LAX via BNE and then get an AA flight to JFK. Unless cargo is really that profitable, I suspect QF will want as many JFK pax to fill up the SYD-DFW flight and once they have enough frequency, business travel to JFK will likely go via DFW. And on the days there is no DFW flight, JFK pax can go via LAX.

Re SYD-DFW being only 5 minutes longer than EWR-HKG, another thing is that although tail winds play a part, the 744 also cruises faster than the 777.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2011-01-14 16:42:39 and read 13857 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 156):

VA already connects to VX in LAX, and more importantly DL. Not sure what, if anything, VX at SFO would gain VA other than a smaller market and an irrelevant partner.

VX is not an irrelevant partner, given connectivity to major US markets up the West Coast and in the East. If VA wants to compete with QF, they need that sort of connectivity.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: swissair4ever
Posted 2011-01-14 16:58:03 and read 13779 times.

by the way.....in reading so many of the posts on this website....its clear there are lots of DFW haters on this board!

in any case...i am not originally from the DFW area, but i know it well, and the metroplex is a fantastic multi-cultural environment that would happily support more international service.

I also agree with the above poster that JFK may get the axe when it comes to QF metal. Doesn't make much sense when they've already downgraded to a A332 even though its increasing to daily. With LGA coming on-line with AA/QF codeshares, it may actually be more efficient to funnel traffic through DFW vs LAX. This would then free up capacity for LAX and west coast originating pax for the LAX-Australia services which are already at a premium.

This route for QF from DFW will be a real winner.

p.s. I have also heard several CREDIBLE rumours that the DFW-MAD service currently operated by AA will go to IB metal with A343 (which by the way I think is much more suited with the J/Y config for the route).

pretty soon....the EK/QR/SQ line-up at IAH will be rivaled by the QF/IB/EY line-up at DFW!!!!!!!

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: aa61hvy
Posted 2011-01-14 16:58:04 and read 13814 times.

Quoting United_fan (Reply 173):
That 744 is sure going to use a lot of runway when its 110+ in DFW in the Summer!

It departs at 10pm, so it will cool down to a nice balmy 90 degrees  

I loved seeing AA's MD-11's leave around 10pm to go down to South America, those always used a great deal of runway in the summer.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: PA515
Posted 2011-01-14 16:59:10 and read 13828 times.

Quoting psa1011 (Reply 174):
Speaking QF's LAX-AKL, why doesn't NZ start SFO-SYD? Furthermore, why doesn't NZ just take over SFO-AKL/SYD from UA?

In March 2003 UA withdrew from AKL-LAX to codeshare on NZ, and in Apr 2003 NZ withdrew from SYD-LAX to codeshare on UA.

There seems to be some sort of agreement between UA and NZ over flights between the USA and Aust/NZ. Perhaps it influenced the early CO announcement of IAH-AKL, circumventing an agreement they want to keep when the merger with UA is completed. Does anyone have some info?

PA515

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: gemuser
Posted 2011-01-14 17:18:49 and read 13719 times.

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 177):
There are no Florida cities listed via DFW

Miami is NOT in Florida?
From the press release and the OP:

Quote:

DFW is American's largest hub and it offers easy connections to American's four other cornerstone markets of Chicago, Miami, New York and Los Angeles.

Interestingly the list of new connections in the OP is left off the copy on the QF web site.

Gemuser

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: alangirvan
Posted 2011-01-14 18:51:21 and read 13443 times.

Quoting gemuser (Reply 187):
Quote:

DFW is American's largest hub and it offers easy connections to American's four other cornerstone markets of Chicago, Miami, New York and Los Angeles.

Interestingly the list of new connections in the OP is left off the copy on the QF web site.

Gemuser

Even Gemuser would agree that Miami was not one of the 13 American cities listed as code share destinations through DFW - I do not think Australians would be using an easy connection to Los Angeles via DFW even though the Press Release lists that as one of the advantages of flying through DFW.

I was interested as to why some cities like BOS and MIA are not included in these initial cities. They can be done through DFW but not as code shares - they will still be code shares via LAX. Maybe Qantas passengers will get better food on an AA coast to coast flight? And it still seems strange that people would want to fly from Australia to Sacramento via DFW.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: gdg9
Posted 2011-01-14 18:53:36 and read 13425 times.

Quoting swissair4ever (Reply 184):
I have also heard several CREDIBLE rumours that the DFW-MAD service currently operated by AA will go to IB metal with A343 (which by the way I think is much more suited with the J/Y config for the route).

Timeframe?

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: thomasphoto60
Posted 2011-01-14 19:15:27 and read 13337 times.

Quoting swissair4ever (Reply 184):
pretty soon....the EK/QR/SQ line-up at IAH will be rivaled by the QF/IB/EY line-up at DFW!!!!!!!

Perhaps, stranger things have happened, also depends how you define "pretty soon". I recall hearing about a QF service to DFW when I was living in OZ back in the early 90s.

BTW, when did EY and IB announce DFW service? By that reasoning, I suppose I could add NH, AI, PK (for a 2nd round) ET, TK to IAH's future roster of carriers, based on 'off the cuff' remarks from diplomats (in the case of Ethiopian), airline execs (KE, NH, AI, TK) and pie-n-the-sky reports from local media sources.

Let's see, it took 184 posts before the IAH v DFW rivalry was injected into this thread, hell, I am surprised it took that long.

Anywho, congrats to DFW, they snagged one of my favorite carriers.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Airvan00
Posted 2011-01-14 19:47:19 and read 13225 times.

Just a a matter of interest. How is a thread classified as a "hot" thread (the ones with the little fire symbol).
This thread gathered 190 replies and 22,000 views in 28 hours. Whereas the nearest "hot" thread, the one about 787 flight testing has taken 3 months to get the same 22,000 views and only 90 replies.

This is a hot thread by any measure. It took me an hour to read this morning from where I left off yesterday evening.

It has been great to read all the news and views on this important development.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: MileHighOffice
Posted 2011-01-14 20:30:28 and read 13085 times.

Can't wait to see the Qantas logo sitting among the other tails at DFW. It's getting to be an impressive lineup.

Nice to see a long speculated rumor on a.net come true. Ha now if QF would only announce an order for 777s, but I guess we shouldn't get greedy.

Interstingly when I asked some of my pilot friends at QF and some local PR guys in Sydney they all seemed to have known about this for a while. Pilots said the tip off was when SFO ground staff got their marching orders and posts were created at DFW.

That being said, this was a well kept secret from the public and had a huge impact when announced. People in Sydney and Texas are buzzing about it.

2 hours before getting lots of texts and emails after the announcement I had bought SYD-DFW tix for two trips.

Anyway, this is a good move for Qantas, OneWorld and DFW!

Emirates guys are saying they will do IAH from DXB on the A380 when they get a lighter version. Will Qantas get this and then could DFW be realistic station and get SYD nonstop westbound?

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: gemuser
Posted 2011-01-14 20:45:03 and read 13026 times.

Quoting MileHighOffice (Reply 192):
Emirates guys are saying they will do IAH from DXB on the A380 when they get a lighter version. Will Qantas get this and then could DFW be realistic station and get SYD nonstop westbound?

These are the post 2012 A380s, some tonnes lighter than current ones. QF have 8 on order and they will be three class J, Y+ & Y, like the B744s being used to launch the service. I expect that DFW will be an early port for them. If the numbers work out as expected they should be able to eliminate the BNE stop.

Gemuser

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: thegeek
Posted 2011-01-14 21:24:42 and read 12919 times.

Quoting jensobreuer (Reply 119):
You forgot the FRA route ...

Doh! I did too. But I also didn't include that QF have just received their 8th A380, should receive their 9th one before this route starts.

I'm still surprised that they didn't keep SYD-SFO at at least 3pw if they really plan to return there. Maybe they don't.

Quoting jrfspa320 (Reply 118):
Does the 332 not have the range for SYD-SFO, either QF or JQ?

Even the HGW A332 (238t) would probably be restricted. However, the HGW variants which JQ has on order could probably reach BNE from SFO with a viable (if not full pax) payload. The question is would there be enough demand for such a route? There's also a question mark over the CF6s on hot days.

Quoting gemuser (Reply 139):

The Trent engine problems will be resolved in due course and IMHO it will be the post 2012 (3 class) A380 that will take over SYD-DFW.

  

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 152):
So do you think V Australia will start SFO? Given VX is hubbed here...

I would think so. VA have been scrambling to find somewhere to fly its 77Ws when they aren't going to LAX. They would be asleep at the wheel if they miss this opportunity.

Quoting psa1011 (Reply 172):

Speaking QF's LAX-AKL, why doesn't NZ start SFO-SYD? Furthermore, why doesn't NZ just take over SFO-AKL/SYD from UA?
SFO-SYD would be a pain for NZ as it would have to be crewed AKL-SFO-SYD-SFO-AKL, at least on the flight deck. Unless they fly 77Es or 747s AKL-SYD. As for taking over flights from UA, the competition authorities would have something to say about that! Although they could compete with UA on those flights.

Quoting The Coachman (Reply 182):
4) I predict QF operations to JFK may get the axe

I don't. Having savagely downgraded it from daily 744 to 5/week A332 if it is now doing well enough to go daily, why not just leave it at that level?

[Edited 2011-01-14 22:14:30]

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Pbb152
Posted 2011-01-14 22:04:46 and read 12819 times.

As a Houstonian, I would just like to say congrats to all my friends in Dallas. This is certainly a very exciting addition to the DFW lineup. And another good reason for me to make the trip up I-45 to take some pics. Bring on Iberia as well. The more airlines we have between Houston and Dallas, the more great photo ops we have.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: AusA380
Posted 2011-01-14 23:16:25 and read 12638 times.

Quoting AlitaliaDC10 (Thread starter):
Alongside our entry into DFW, Qantas and American Airlines intend to deepen their
existing relationship and will be seeking regulatory approval from the Australian
Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) and other relevant authorities for
this expanded commercial relationship,” Mr Joyce said.

Given that AA do not fly to Australia, what might be the strategy requiring the Australian ACCC (Competition Regulator) and presumably the DOT/DOJ approval? It is not like other ATI where two or more carriers share metal, revenue etc. I can't see AA flying any services to Australia.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: tayser
Posted 2011-01-14 23:29:09 and read 12594 times.

doesnt matter if AA don't fly here, they're earning revenue from Australia currently and if a full JV like DL-DJ's eventuates the ACCC needs to assess how it impacts air travel competition in Australia and naturally whatever AA bring to the table (network access at the other end) needs to be looked at.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: brons2
Posted 2011-01-15 01:43:19 and read 12359 times.

Quoting AdmiralRitt (Reply 157):
cause those paleo-JT8D's

cannot be bargained with and show now pity or remorse at anyones 4 excedrin headache.

That's ridiculous. The JT8D-s are barely audible in the front half of the MD-80, and they are only really loud in the back 5 rows or so.

Quoting United_fan (Reply 173):
That 744 is sure going to use a lot of runway when its 110+ in DFW in the Summer!

It is rarely that hot in the metroplex. 100F, yes, 110F, no. Plus the flight leaves at 10PM. At that time of day, ambient should be in the upper 80s or lower 90s.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: gemuser
Posted 2011-01-15 02:57:31 and read 12242 times.

Quoting brons2 (Reply 198):
Quoting United_fan (Reply 173):
That 744 is sure going to use a lot of runway when its 110+ in DFW in the Summer!

It is rarely that hot in the metroplex. 100F, yes, 110F, no. Plus the flight leaves at 10PM. At that time of day, ambient should be in the upper 80s or lower 90s.

And considering those B744s normally live at an airport which frequently has 38/40C (100-105F) temperatures, nil wind, high humidity, but is at sea level, I rather think the airline is VERY familiar with hot operations.

Gemuser

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: cpd
Posted 2011-01-15 05:34:10 and read 12029 times.

Just an update on the A380s available at the moment for QF that I mentioned earlier, VH-OQC appears to have only 1 engine at the moment. The rest of the engines are gone. She is parked near Qantas Drive at Sydney Airport.

VH-OQI has now arrived.

Quoting brons2 (Reply 198):
It is rarely that hot in the metroplex. 100F, yes, 110F, no. Plus the flight leaves at 10PM. At that time of day, ambient should be in the upper 80s or lower 90s.

Sydney in summer can give you day after day of 40 degrees celsius or higher temperatures - especially at the airport. Don't think QF will have too much problems with hot temperatures.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2011-01-15 07:29:29 and read 11853 times.

WOW!!! I had checked the board in a couple of days since Im in Isla de Pascua (Easter Island) right now but this really is a dream come true. I cant wait to take this flights even though Ive been to Australia a number of times. They have been talking about this for year, glad to finally see it come up! I would like to see QF codeshare on more AA flights out of DFW than what they are currently planning.

Quoting Pbb152 (Reply 195):
As a Houstonian, I would just like to say congrats to all my friends in Dallas. This is certainly a very exciting addition to the DFW lineup. And another good reason for me to make the trip up I-45 to take some pics. Bring on Iberia as well. The more airlines we have between Houston and Dallas, the more great photo ops we have.

Amen brother. The whole Houston vs. Dallas thing gets out of hand sometimes. I look at it like you do. The cities are only 230 miles apart. Having a QF flight at DFW benefits Houston just like the EK flights at IAH have benefited Dallas. I take the evening flight from IAH to DFW from time to time and the vast majority of the plane are connections from QR and EK. I have also seen lots of KE pax connecting to IAH from the DFW flight. The simple truth is that when given an option, its better to have a connection point very close by. That way if you arrive at one, but cant get on your next flight, you could drive it if you have to.

Houston and Dallas may be able to hold their own by themselves, but when you put them together, they are a true powerhouse.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2011-01-15 08:03:26 and read 11799 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 201):
WOW!!! I had checked the board in a couple of days since Im in Isla de Pascua (Easter Island) right now

*turns a deep shade of green*

I'm NOT jealous... How are the Moai? There's a line of them by the beach to the east. I named the second one from the left Pepe. Go say hi to him for me. I miss him.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 194):

I would think so. VA have been scrambling to find somewhere to fly its 77Ws when they aren't going to LAX. They would be asleep at the wheel if they miss this opportunity.

And also, if their competition is UA, it'll be like taking candy from a baby.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Bartond
Posted 2011-01-15 08:44:13 and read 11732 times.

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 177):
"By placing its code on American flights operating from DFW, thirteen US and three Mexican destinations will join the Qantas network. These include Albuquerque, Boise, Cleveland, Washington DC (Regan National), El Paso, New York (La Guardia), Kansas City, Oklahoma, Phoenix, San Antonio, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, Tucson, Cancun, Guadalajara, and Mexico City."

I agree with some of the posts above that it's always puzzling to see what cities are listed as "new to the network" when a route like this is started. All of the cities above make sense but couldn't you list about 150 more cities that are now available to Qantas passengers via the DFW hub? Tulsa, Colorado Springs, Fayetteville/Bentonville, Memphis, New Orleans, Charlotte, Atlanta, etc. etc. etc. The list goes on and on.

So my question is - why are only the cities in the quote above listed and not a bazillion others? Are the cities listed the only ones that initially have agreed to a codeshare or something like that? Can anyone clarify this for me because I am always confused at how few cities are considered "new available destinations" when a new route begins.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: seabosdca
Posted 2011-01-15 08:48:42 and read 11724 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 202):
And also, if their competition is UA, it'll be like taking candy from a baby.

People have been saying things like this and being wrong since the '90s. People will take the plane without AVOD if it's $20 cheaper. And UA has lots of ways to make sure its fares are $20 cheaper.

SYD has been a profit machine for UA for decades and that's not about to stop.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: B377
Posted 2011-01-15 09:37:24 and read 11671 times.

Quoting Bartond (Reply 203):
Quoting alangirvan (Reply 177):
"By placing its code on American flights operating from DFW, thirteen US and three Mexican destinations will join the Qantas network. These include Albuquerque, Boise, Cleveland, Washington DC (Regan National), El Paso, New York (La Guardia), Kansas City, Oklahoma, Phoenix, San Antonio, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, Tucson, Cancun, Guadalajara, and Mexico City."

It should be noted that Albuquerque, Boise, El Paso, Oklahoma City, Phoenix, Salt Lake City, Sacramento and Tucson will also be available via Los Angeles starting with the April 5th 2011 AA schedule change, although I have not seen an additional code-share filing with the DOT.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: OA412
Posted 2011-01-15 13:03:22 and read 11427 times.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 157):
Here is my suggestion. Educate yourself before you try to make fun of other cities and their cultural life.

So in other words, you didn't understand that I was merely joking and that my post had nothing to do with my actual feelings toward Dallas and Texas. And, rather than admit such, you continue to patronize and insult. That, or you have no sense of humor. Pretty sad either way.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 157):
The civic culture in Dallas has been able to support the construction of both a Louis Kahn building and a Rem Koolhaas building. Even the new Cowboys stadium which is more spectacle than architecture has been recognized by Art in America for its arts commission program. That says a lot about the level of taste in Dallas.

That's great. Again, I don't know how many times I have to tell you it was merely a joke and does not reflect my actual feelings toward Dallas. You seem to have a very difficult time comprehending that.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: MarcoPoloWorld
Posted 2011-01-15 14:39:14 and read 11278 times.

Seems like QF is engaging in a classic case of robbing Peter to pay Paul.

And if DFW-SYD needs to make a stopover on the way - which it will - then what is the net gain from this? At least when connecting to/from the west coast from the US inland, you were essentially guaranteed a maximum one-stop from most major markets. Now the feeder pax, if connecting via DFW, will have to endure two stopovers on the westbound (total trip). And it's only 4x weekly?

In any case, SFO is a strong o/d market, and other airlines will fill the shoes of QF well.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: alangirvan
Posted 2011-01-15 15:09:56 and read 11178 times.

Quoting Bartond (Reply 203):
I agree with some of the posts above that it's always puzzling to see what cities are listed as "new to the network" when a route like this is started. All of the cities above make sense but couldn't you list about 150 more cities that are now available to Qantas passengers via the DFW hub? Tulsa, Colorado Springs, Fayetteville/Bentonville, Memphis, New Orleans, Charlotte, Atlanta, etc. etc. etc. The list goes on and on.

My guess is that the cities listed by Qantas are only the first tranch, and more cities will be added. When we look at the airline route site, we see some airlines adding almost the complete domestic network of their US partner, and you might wonder just how much demand there would be for some of those city pairs. Of course cities that are not Qantas code share cities will be able to do the trip on AA tickets.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 201):
Having a QF flight at DFW benefits Houston just like the EK flights at IAH have benefited Dallas. I take the evening flight from IAH to DFW from time to time and the vast majority of the plane are connections from QR and EK. I have also seen lots of KE pax connecting to IAH from the DFW flight. The simple truth is that when given an option, its better to have a connection point very close by.

Houston passengers would also be able to connect from Hobby Airport on the American Eagle service, if those planes have enough space for all the bags people need on a long flight.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Airvan00
Posted 2011-01-15 15:15:01 and read 11169 times.

Quoting MarcoPoloWorld (Reply 207):

And if DFW-SYD needs to make a stopover on the way - which it will - then what is the net gain from this? At least when connecting to/from the west coast from the US inland, you were essentially guaranteed a maximum one-stop from most major markets. Now the feeder pax, if connecting via DFW, will have to endure two stopovers on the westbound (total trip). And it's only 4x weekly?

DFW is a OneWorld mega hub, SFO is not.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2011-01-15 15:21:01 and read 11144 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 36):
Living in SEA, I'd seriously consider flying SEA-DFW-SYD rather than SEA-LAX-SYD. It's probably not a whole lot longer, but a much nice airport to connect in.

1560 nm further. In flying time alone that's roughly 4 hours longer.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 3):
They originally served SFO long before LAX.

QF also served JFK (then IDL) many years before they had rights to LAX. SFO and IDL were originally part of their around-the-world service in the mid-1950s. QF dropped JFK when they retired their 707s and upgraded US services to the 747-200 in the early 1970s and only returned a decade or so ago, this time as a tag-on from LAX rather than SFO.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: SESGDL
Posted 2011-01-15 15:26:09 and read 11118 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 210):

1560 nm further. In flying time alone that's roughly 4 hours longer.

Something that only a crazy a.netter would do under normal circumstances.

Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 209):

DFW is a OneWorld mega hub, SFO is not.

I seriously question the viability of this route for a few reasons:

1) Ultra long-haul flights are difficult to operate profitably
2) This is the longest 747 route ever flown, inferior to other ULH aircraft like the 77L, 77W, and even 345 and 346
3) The majority of passengers flying between Australia and the United States are concentrated on the West Coast, a region that DFW does not serve with this new nonstop (although being only 4x weekly helps this)

Jeremy

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Airvan00
Posted 2011-01-15 15:37:38 and read 11078 times.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 211):
3) The majority of passengers flying between Australia and the United States are concentrated on the West Coast, a region that DFW does not serve with this new nonstop (although being only 4x weekly helps this)

Qantas still has 5 flights a day to the west coast, so less than 20% of capacity to DFW. I'm sure the Qantas execs have looked at a few figures and decided that the flight is viable.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: The Coachman
Posted 2011-01-15 15:47:53 and read 11049 times.

Increasing numbers of Australians who've already explored the west coast are now moving to explore the midwest and east coasts. As I mentioned earlier, I think this flight will improve the yields for LAX routes by reducing the number of pax on the LAX flights who were going on to ORD, JFK, IAD etc.

Granted re ULH issues but I think the 380 is a shoe-in to do this route in the future.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: realsim
Posted 2011-01-15 16:24:53 and read 10949 times.

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 50):
If I recall correctly, the pilots made a stink about a flight that was 30 minutes longer than the contract allowed. I may well be wrong. They made a public case and what happened? AA lost a route and the pilots didn't gain anything.

The flight time itself doesn't matter, what is limited is the duty time to a maximum of 16 scheduled hours. The APA agreed an exception for ORD-DEL specific route. That means that, currently, no flights over 14h30 are allowed except that one.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 28):
Says who? The pilots had a very unique opportunity to make a very public case with the China flights, unlike, say, flights to Delhi, which the pilots did not attempt to scuttle. And pilots likely won't make an issue with Miami-Tokyo, either.
Quoting goldenstate (Reply 170):
Delhi predated the DFW-PEK application. Why do you think that the pilots won't take issue with a hypothetical MIA-NRT route. I find it hard to believe that APA would agree to waive contractual limits or that AA would make any concessions necessary to convince them to do so, all during protracted contract negotiations.

I also believe that APA isn't going to waive the 16 hours duty limit anymore for route specific flights unless AA agrees to make the concessions they asked for DFW-PEK.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: tayser
Posted 2011-01-15 16:30:50 and read 10930 times.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 211):
I seriously question the viability of this route for a few reasons:

1) Ultra long-haul flights are difficult to operate profitably

QF have a fair bit of experience in this area.

in terms of single sector flights:
MEL-LAX (14.5h)
SYD-JNB (14h)
SYD-LAX (13.5h)
SYD-SFO (13.5h)
BNE-LAX (13h)
SYD-EZE (13h)

note the Americas flights are longer westbound

one-stops (all 20+ hours):
MEL-SIN-LHR
MEL-HKG-LHR
SYD-SIN-LHR
SYD-BKK-LHR
SYD-SIN-FRA

Quote:
2) This is the longest 747 route ever flown, inferior to other ULH aircraft like the 77L, 77W, and even 345 and 346

I don't disagree. I wouldn't be willing to wager it's going to be a 744/744ER for long.

Quote:
3) The majority of passengers flying between Australia and the United States are concentrated on the West Coast, a region that DFW does not serve with this new nonstop (although being only 4x weekly helps this)

See Airvan's comment. On the flipside, you can just as easily make a generalised comment like many Americans think Australia begins and ends at SYD (you only have to read many threads on this forum), clearly QF believe there is demand otherwise (And clearly AA believe there is demand for people to fly LAX-BNE and LAX-MEL on QF metal).

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Airvan00
Posted 2011-01-15 16:51:15 and read 10884 times.

Quoting tayser (Reply 215):
clearly QF believe there is demand otherwise (And clearly AA believe there is demand for people to fly LAX-BNE and LAX-MEL on QF metal).

Intresting that you mentioned flights beyond Brisbane. Perth is now one stop from DFW. QF 8 connecting into QF589 at BNE, is now showing up in the QF schedule.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: TN486
Posted 2011-01-15 17:21:10 and read 10802 times.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 211):
) Ultra long-haul flights are difficult to operate profitably
2) This is the longest 747 route ever flown, inferior to other ULH aircraft like the 77L, 77W, and even 345 and 346
3) The majority of passengers flying between Australia and the United States are concentrated on the West Coast, a region that DFW does not serve with this new nonstop (although being only 4x weekly helps this

Jeremy, some words straight from the horses mouth (QF CEO Alan Joyce).
"SFO hasnt got a huge amount of corporate traffic compared to what we think we'll pick into the Dallas market and it hasn't got a big American hub there", he said. "It is more of a UA hub than it is AA and as a consequence SFO has always struggled for us".CEO Alan Joyce said "the Dallas route made more sense than the leisure-oriented San Francisco market".
Source: www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation
and scroll down to the article Qantas ditches Frisco for Dallas.
IMHO, after reading the article, 747/747ER until they have enough A380's (probably from No 13 (I think this is the first "lite" one)), and JQ to service SFO in the future with the 787 (if not earlier with an A330 via somewhere )

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: multimark
Posted 2011-01-15 18:00:07 and read 10691 times.

Anybody think that Air Canada might use QF's pullout as a chance to start YYZ-SFO-SYD?

You may recall AC applied to do YYZ-LAX-SYD, but was shot down by the Australians. However, I believe Canada already has the right to serve Australia through HNL and SFO.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: longhauler
Posted 2011-01-15 19:20:51 and read 10552 times.

Quoting multimark (Reply 218):
You may recall AC applied to do YYZ-LAX-SYD, but was shot down by the Australians. However, I believe Canada already has the right to serve Australia through HNL and SFO.

That's is right, due to the old Canadian Pacific Airlines rights.

In fact, that is why Qantas were able to carry passengers between YVR and SFO locally. In return, Air Canada holds the rights from HNL and SFO to Australia. Much like QF still maintains the rights from HNL and SFO to Canada. (I say AC and QF, but I would imagine it is any Australian or Canadian carrier.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: YYZALA
Posted 2011-01-15 19:24:54 and read 10543 times.

Quoting multimark (Reply 218):
Anybody think that Air Canada might use QF's pullout as a chance to start YYZ-SFO-SYD?

They already do via YVR. SFO-SYD is covered by its partner, UA so it would make no sense to use own metal.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: SESGDL
Posted 2011-01-15 19:49:52 and read 10499 times.

Quoting TN486 (Reply 217):
"SFO hasnt got a huge amount of corporate traffic compared to what we think we'll pick into the Dallas market and it hasn't got a big American hub there", he said. "It is more of a UA hub than it is AA and as a consequence SFO has always struggled for us".CEO Alan Joyce said "the Dallas route made more sense than the leisure-oriented San Francisco market".

That's unfortunate that QF would continue serving a route that they've struggled with for decades. I'll stick to my sentiments for now that I don't think the route will do well, but I'll happily be proven wrong. Because of the nature of the route I don't think that SYD-DFW-BNE-SYD would be discontinued even if it wasn't profitable, due to the importance of connecting two oneworld hubs, but I don't see any possible way that the route will be profitable being as long as it is, as well as the equipment being used.

Jeremy

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: ZuluAlpha
Posted 2011-01-15 20:01:17 and read 10470 times.

Quoting TN486 (Reply 217):
(if not earlier with an A330 via somewhere )

An extension of the QF3/4 to HNL where QF opperates an A330.. to continue through to SFO ?

Also I have planned a trip to NYC on 25 May, where I was going to to a stop over in LAX. Now with this new little route I think I might do this QF7 through to DFW and still with the stop over. I have seen that there is the Grand Hyatt above terminal D (main international terminal?) at DFW which overlooks the runway, also with a rooftop pool. Great Spotting opportunities Big grin

As previously mentioned, about the weight restrictions. The dates that I am looking at flying, the forward trip (25May appears to be wide open how ever the return (08June) have got quite a few seats missing from the availability. I will have more details on this upon my return to work tomorrow.

[Edited 2011-01-15 20:11:54]

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: MPDPilot
Posted 2011-01-15 20:10:15 and read 10440 times.

Just wanted to add my two cents. This is great news, I it is always good to see new routes to SYD as due to its location only has a few very popular destinations with a lot of connections.

On another note, if I were in Delta's Network Planning, I would look very seriously at SFO-SYD with the 77L. This would be a great opportunity for them to pick up some of the flying out of SYD and with a smaller aircraft would likely make it successful. Just a thought.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Airvan00
Posted 2011-01-15 20:10:28 and read 10462 times.

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 222):
An extension of the QF3/4 to HNL where QF opperates an A330.. to continue through to SFO ?

Qantas uses the 763, it is JetStar that uses 332 on SYD-HNL. But Yes a good idea to continue on to SFO. (prefer the 332 and QF)

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: ZuluAlpha
Posted 2011-01-15 20:13:24 and read 10441 times.

Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 224):

Yes, you are correct, my bad.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: thegeek
Posted 2011-01-15 20:44:56 and read 10408 times.

Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 224):
Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 222):
An extension of the QF3/4 to HNL where QF opperates an A330.. to continue through to SFO ?

Qantas uses the 763, it is JetStar that uses 332 on SYD-HNL. But Yes a good idea to continue on to SFO. (prefer the 332 and QF)

I don't see it. You wouldn't be able to sell tickets to people who aren't traveling to/from Australia, and it's not like the LAX-JFK tag which can get connections from BNE/MEL/AKL as well as through pax from SYD.

Quoting YYZALA (Reply 220):
Quoting multimark (Reply 218):
Anybody think that Air Canada might use QF's pullout as a chance to start YYZ-SFO-SYD?

They already do via YVR. SFO-SYD is covered by its partner, UA so it would make no sense to use own metal.

I'd say it's a dark horse possibility. A same plane service from YYZ would be better than a connection, but only really for YYZ O&D pax. You'd have to sell tickets to a lot of SFO-SYD pax for it to work. Assuming VA do seize the opportunity, there may not be enough of a market for 3 operators.

Quoting tayser (Reply 215):
I don't disagree. I wouldn't be willing to wager it's going to be a 744/744ER for long.

Depends on how you define "long". It's really only the 2012 A380 version which will do it without much trouble. I don't see much point in going A380 with an earlier A380 version, unless loads are quite strong.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: thenoflyzone
Posted 2011-01-15 21:05:43 and read 10442 times.

Quoting QF762 (Reply 137):
"QANTAS will receive a rebate on fees from Dallas-Fort Worth airport [totalling] US$3.1 Million over the first two years of the service. This will more than cover all landing fees and airport charges for the period with the surplus to be used for marketing."

Dont you worry, the savings they are getting at DFW will all be spent in NAN on all the fuel stops they will be doing !

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 221):
. I'll stick to my sentiments for now that I don't think the route will do well

Of course the route will not do well, it's past the max range of a B744 with any significant load on board.

Thenoflyzone

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Airvan00
Posted 2011-01-15 21:15:33 and read 10413 times.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 227):

Of course the route will not do well, it's past the max range of a B744 with any significant load on board.

What do you consider the max range of the B744 and the B744ER? (with significant payload)

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2011-01-15 21:48:34 and read 10321 times.

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 223):
On another note, if I were in Delta's Network Planning, I would look very seriously at SFO-SYD with the 77L. This would be a great opportunity for them to pick up some of the flying out of SYD and with a smaller aircraft would likely make it successful. Just a thought.

What exactly would be its connections from SFO? DL have limited presence in SFO, and have tried to start building up LAX to allow for routes like SYD to work.

Dont expect a DL SFO-SYD anytime soon 

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: thenoflyzone
Posted 2011-01-15 22:31:20 and read 10269 times.

Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 228):
What do you consider the max range of the B744 and the B744ER? (with significant payload


As a retired ATC and commercial pilot, i'm shocked you're even asking....

ESAD for SYD-DFW is 13,804 km.

Max range for the B744 is 13,450 km. And that's without even getting into fuel required for missed approach, hold and diversion to a suitable alternate airport....which you should know something about....!

Basically, anything above 12,500 km, and your B744 becomes payload restricted to a point were there is no point operating the flight. Coincidently, that is the longest commercial flight a B744 flies today, UA ORD-HKG, 12,542 km.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/747family/pf/pf_400_prod.html

Need i say more.......

Bottom line, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that QF will not make money on this route until they put an A380 or B787 on it. They just wanted to get in the market before CO does with IAH-AKL. Suffer now, reap the rewards later....Besides...If there was money to be made, they could have started this route with a 744 decades ago !

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2011-01-15 22:58:49]

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Airvan00
Posted 2011-01-15 23:36:16 and read 10139 times.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 230):

As a retired ATC and commercial pilot, i'm shocked you're even asking....

I knew the answer. In fact I gave you a hint when I asked about B744 and 744ER's.

Yes the max range of a 744 is listed as 13,450km , but that same source lists the 744ER as 14,205Km. That source also mentions that the 747-400ER includes the option of one or two additional 3,240 US gallon body fuel tanks in the forward cargo hold. I don't know if the QF's ERs have that in addition.

The flight will be operated by 744ER's not 744's. The route will not start until the A380's are able to replace a few 744ER's on MEL-LAX-MEL.

I am surprised that so many people on here seem to think that QF, of all airlines, haven't done their sums. They after all are the pioneers of long range flying going back to the 28hr double sunrise flights.

QF have long desired flying to DFW. I doubt the route via AKL had much to do with it. Rightly or wrongly Australians consider flying via NZ to be out of the way.

[Edited 2011-01-15 23:37:52]

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2011-01-16 01:08:33 and read 9952 times.

Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 231):
I am surprised that so many people on here seem to think that QF, of all airlines, haven't done their sums. They after all are the pioneers of long range flying going back to the 28hr double sunrise flights.

I agree with you. I doubt the airline took the decision to drop SFO, and add DFW, lightly. The sums must have stacked up far better for the DFW service, espoecially given the AA ties, and the possible deal it could muster from the airport operator.

Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 231):
QF have long desired flying to DFW. I doubt the route via AKL had much to do with it. Rightly or wrongly Australians consider flying via NZ to be out of the way.

I also agree here. AKL is a a good airport, and nicely positioned to be a hub for Nth American flying, but frankly it is too close to Australia to be seen as a very appealing option for most travellers. Fly 3 hours, then another 11-12 hours or so to go, along with the transit time, just does not add up well to some.

AKL is alot better as a connection hub than SYD will likely ever be, given its terminal layout, yet the amount of domestic options into SYD, and the flood of capacity on Nth America-Sydney routes, gives it an advantage. MEL and BNE both were NZ strongholds to Nth America for so long, but over time both cities have had capacity added on non-stop options, which makes the AKL stop-over even less appealing.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: UAL777UK
Posted 2011-01-16 01:08:40 and read 9964 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 202):
And also, if their competition is UA, it'll be like taking candy from a baby.

If its that wasy, why are QF pulling out?

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 204):
People have been saying things like this and being wrong since the '90s. People will take the plane without AVOD if it's $20 cheaper. And UA has lots of ways to make sure its fares are $20 cheaper.

SYD has been a profit machine for UA for decades and that's not about to stop.

  

Lets not forget that there is speculation that PTV's may go in the Y cabin on those UA 744's as well. Either way, UA out of SFO are an 800lb gorilla and are going nowhere on the SYD route.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: OzGlobal
Posted 2011-01-16 03:16:10 and read 9791 times.

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 223):
This is great news, I it is always good to see new routes to SYD as due to its location only has a few very popular destinations with a lot of connections.

SYD has a huge number of "popular destination s with a lot of connections." In a global forum, if you are specifically speaking of the US, you need to stipulate.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: thegeek
Posted 2011-01-16 04:39:27 and read 9693 times.

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 233):
If its that wasy, why are QF pulling out?

Aren't many observers scratching their heads about that? If you can see logic, please share it with us!

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: mogandoCI
Posted 2011-01-16 05:41:16 and read 9607 times.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 221):
Quoting TN486 (Reply 217):
"SFO hasnt got a huge amount of corporate traffic compared to what we think we'll pick into the Dallas market and it hasn't got a big American hub there", he said. "It is more of a UA hub than it is AA and as a consequence SFO has always struggled for us".CEO Alan Joyce said "the Dallas route made more sense than the leisure-oriented San Francisco market".

That's unfortunate that QF would continue serving a route that they've struggled with for decades. I'll stick to my sentiments for now that I don't think the route will do well, but I'll happily be proven wrong. Because of the nature of the route I don't think that SYD-DFW-BNE-SYD would be discontinued even if it wasn't profitable, due to the importance of connecting two oneworld hubs, but I don't see any possible way that the route will be profitable being as long as it is, as well as the equipment being used.

the more sad thing is the QF CEO failing to properly to serve SFO (THE largest tech market), either due to lack of marketing or high-CASM equipment or both, then resort to immature name calling "leisure-oriented"... as if flooding LAX with 5x dailies will be so "business-oriented" (and bear in mind that LAX-SYD has 4 carriers on it these days while SFO-SYD was a very good duopoly).

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: gdg9
Posted 2011-01-16 06:02:45 and read 9525 times.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 227):
Dont you worry, the savings they are getting at DFW will all be spent in NAN on all the fuel stops they will be doing !

That will be interesting to see how often that happens.

As others have mentioned, I think QF probably won't make too much money on this route to start, but they can build up the awareness and such, and then once the lighter 380s come on line, we will probably see them on QF 7/8. Of course, QF like any airline have route planners, financial gurus etc who have done the research and figured out what will work, far better than most on these boards!

The 380s would be a coup for DFW (1st 380 destination in Texas) as I don't believe IAH has any carriers planning on using the 380 there in future?

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: SFOA380
Posted 2011-01-16 06:30:37 and read 9493 times.

No doubt this was a strategic decision meant to head-off the new CO/UA 787 from IAH to AKL. SFO has huge O&D traffic to Australia and New Zealand. While I don't understand why they would go through the cost of dismantling a station that they will undoubtedly re-establish, I do understand their decision to enter THE major Oneworld hub. DFW is not a dynamic place, it's a boring place and businesses relocate here becasue it's cheap. Qantas knows that the minute they decide to resume SFO service, ramp-up will be minimal due to the amount of demand. Good, bad or indifferent, California is a massive and dynamic economy and the options for tourists and businesses alike are endless. I live in Dallas and while DFW may be a good airport to connect through, it's a nightmare for O&D on American...leave out of D and arrive into A at midnight...you'll see what I mean.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Braniff727Ultra
Posted 2011-01-16 07:08:27 and read 9393 times.

Quoting SFOA380 (Reply 238):

Good, bad or indifferent, California is a massive and dynamic economy and the options for tourists and businesses alike are endless.

As a native son of California; I agree completely. I have lived in TX, NC, AL, AR & AZ; and I have always come "home" after each brief journey elsewhere. A couple of the relocations where due to my time in the Marines; the others were work related.

Yes, we are in a rough spot right now but we'll pull through just like before and we'll prosper yet again! With all that said I can understand QF wanting to establish a foothold in the center of the US market and DFW is a vast airport with great traffic to support this but I feel QF will quickly realize they have made a bad choice in dropping SFO. Remember, Silicon Valley pulls in more venture cap (VC) $$$$ than the rest of the US combined! That means a whole lot of businesses being started/grown & travellers who can't always do all their business via fax, texting, emails or webnar not to mention vacation & leisure travellers. SFO is the international gateway to the wine country and all the great sights of SF herself!

QF will return to SFO!

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: sunrisevalley
Posted 2011-01-16 08:42:58 and read 9258 times.

Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 228):
What do you consider the max range of the B744 and the B744ER? (with significant payload)

Not in answer to the question but somewhat relevant, I had the opportunity to look at a flight plan for the 744 ( not the 744ER) DFW-BNE, the sector distance was 7212nm on the airways with a flight time of 15hr. 24m. The average on the nose winds was 10k. giving an ESAD of ~ 7385nm. I would say this is probably a bit below the norm. The timetable appears to be set up based on 20k on the nose winds.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Zkpilot
Posted 2011-01-16 09:00:46 and read 9240 times.

Quoting peanuts (Reply 150):
As a natural consequence, aside from increased alliance competition, I believe LAX will see no significant QF growth anymore. If anything, SFO would be reinstated first.

Well MEL Will go daily A380, SYD will go 2x daily A380 plus a 744 so that's quite an increase in seats (400 per day from Oz)

Quoting psa1011 (Reply 172):
Speaking QF's LAX-AKL, why doesn't NZ start SFO-SYD? Furthermore, why doesn't NZ just take over SFO-AKL/SYD from UA?

NZ might if things progress with DJ more but at the moment UA and NZ had a deal for UA to drop AKL and NZ to drop SYD

Quoting The Coachman (Reply 182):
4) I predict QF operations to JFK may get the axe - pax north of SYD will go to LAX via BNE and then get an AA flight to JFK. Unless cargo is really that profitable, I suspect QF will want as many JFK pax to fill up the SYD-DFW flight and once they have enough frequency, business travel to JFK will likely go via DFW. And on the days there is no DFW flight, JFK pax can go via LAX.

it's possible but I don't see it. QF will still have planes sitting on the ground all day in LAX, they still have pax that like Intl full service rather than AAs domestic service. They still want to have the biggest financial city on their network with the prestige that comes with it, and there is still the cargo business.
DFW is going to be for pax to everywhere east and north of DFW except NY and the New England states. Being an ULH flight they will be wanting to put on pax that can save connections by going through DFW. NY pax won't save any connections over what they already have.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: thenoflyzone
Posted 2011-01-16 10:15:21 and read 9123 times.

Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 231):
The flight will be operated by 744ER's not 744's

Maybe, but no official word on it in the press release by QF, as there are no 3 class B744ERs at the moment, nor will there be i believe in time for the 16 May launch.

Even if the route went B744ER, a mere 400km buffer above ESAD is anything but standard flight planning....Still too many miles for the mighty ER.

BTW, what is the deal with these lighter A380s in 2012? I thought the only other version of the A380 was due in 2013, and those will have an increase in MTOW by 4 t.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2011-01-16 10:24:56]

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: gemuser
Posted 2011-01-16 12:44:14 and read 8933 times.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 236):
then resort to immature name calling "leisure-oriented"

You know, all other things being equal, if an airline CEO says HIS airlines traffic from a given port is mainly "leisure-oriented" I tend to believe them, even if you don't.

It's perfectly reasonable that it be so. SFO is NOT as big a business centre as LAX, Australia does not have much industry that deals with Silicone Valley, some but not a lot, probably there is just as much that deals with SEA, which does not justify service either. The main business connection between Australia & the USA is to LAX & NYC, which is where QF serve.

Gemuser

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Airvan00
Posted 2011-01-16 13:21:09 and read 8849 times.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 242):
Maybe, but no official word on it in the press release by QF, as there are no 3 class B744ERs at the moment, nor will there be i believe in time for the 16 May launch.

I dunno if this was official, put i copied it from somwhere on here and it answers your question about no "3 class" 744ER's.
It is probably quoted up thread, but I don't have the time today to reread this whold thread.
Cheers


"QANTAS today made official the new QF7/QF8 Sydney - Dallas-Fort Worth service commencing on May 16th.
This will operate 4 x weekly departing Sydney on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday at 1325 arriving at Dallas-Fort Worth same day at 1350. This makes for a 16 hour 25 minute flight time.
Returns depart Dallas-Fort Worth at 2200 on Wednesday, Friday, Sunday and Monday arriving in Brisbane at 0500 two days later. This makes for a 16 hour 35 minute flight time. These flights then continue to Sydney after 90 minutes on the ground in Brisbane. The majority of traffic at both ends of the route is expected to be connecting traffic and so the Brisbane stop is not a problem since Brisbane offers connections to the majority of Australian destinations as Sydney does.
Flights will be operated by Boeing 747ER aircraft and sold as Business/Premium Economy/Economy. The usual First Class cabin will be designated as Business Class and for Chairman’s Lounge and Platinum Frequent Flyer members. The rear two rows of Business Class on the main deck will be sold as Premium Economy for Chairman’s Lounge and Platinum Frequent Flyers, along with rows 34 and 35 of the normal Premium Economy cabin. Normal Premium Economy rows 36-39 will be sold as Economy for Chairman’s Lounge and Platinum Frequent Flyers along with the normal Economy cabin. This gives a 66J/W26/215Y configuration.
QANTAS will receive a rebate on fees from Dallas-Fort Worth airport totally US$3.1 Million over the first two years of the service. This will more than cover all landing fees and airport charges for the period with the surplus to be used for marketing.

[Edited 2011-01-16 13:40:07]

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: thomasphoto60
Posted 2011-01-16 13:39:08 and read 8833 times.

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 237):
as I don't believe IAH has any carriers planning on using the 380 there in future?

Really, tell that to EK. Emirates has eluded (actually stated in one case) that IAH is slated for 380 service, once an updated version (namely a variant of the 380 that has the legs to make DXB-IAH-DXB) is added to the fleet. At this point, it is a waiting game as to see who gets "Texas Braggin Rights" with regards to A380 service, frankly, I am bettin on IAH.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2011-01-16 14:06:54 and read 8755 times.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 219):
Quoting multimark (Reply 218):
You may recall AC applied to do YYZ-LAX-SYD, but was shot down by the Australians. However, I believe Canada already has the right to serve Australia through HNL and SFO.

That's is right, due to the old Canadian Pacific Airlines rights.

In fact, that is why Qantas were able to carry passengers between YVR and SFO locally. In return, Air Canada holds the rights from HNL and SFO to Australia. Much like QF still maintains the rights from HNL and SFO to Canada. (I say AC and QF, but I would imagine it is any Australian or Canadian carrier.

The Canada-Australia bilateral permits Canadian carriers to serve 2 points in Australia (SYD and one other of their choice...AC once served MEL and Canada 3000 once served BNE under that provision). Australian carriers can similarly serve 2 points in Canada (YVR and one other of their choice....QF very briefly briefly served YYZ sometime in the 1990s or thereabouts).

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2011-01-16 14:11:56 and read 8734 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 87):
Its not the first time QF dumped SFO

Which probably tells you its a marginal and tough market for them to make a go with...

Quoting thegeek (Reply 226):
I don't see it. You wouldn't be able to sell tickets to people who aren't traveling to/from Australia, and it's not like the LAX-JFK tag which can get connections from BNE/MEL/AKL as well as through pax from SYD.

I don't see a XXX-HNL-SFO either. Not only would the HNL-SFO leg be half empty, such one-stop service over Hawaii have fallen out of favor long time ago. That was a different era.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 236):
the more sad thing is the QF CEO failing to properly to serve SFO (THE largest tech market), either due to lack of marketing or high-CASM equipment or both, then resort to immature name calling "leisure-oriented"... as if flooding LAX with 5x dailies will be so "business-oriented" (and bear in mind that LAX-SYD has 4 carriers on it these days while SFO-SYD was a very good duopoly).

Hardly immature. The man calls it the way he sees it.

Way back I said making a go at SFO was a hard thing for international airlines. Not only is the market size much smaller overall than Los Angeles, but it has a single strong home carrier.
Virtually every international airline that serves SFO does so on a larger scale at LAX. In addition SFO barely has any freighter services, while LAX huge numbers of cargo activity.

Simply put, UA has a lock on much of the Bay Area traffic, and what was left was not sufficient to money for QF. Also does not help that OW partner AA is virtually useless to assist QF with feed at SFO.

Quoting Braniff727Ultra (Reply 239):
Remember, Silicon Valley pulls in more venture cap (VC) $$$$ than the rest of the US combined! That means a whole lot of businesses being started/grown & travellers who can't always do all their business via fax, texting, emails or webnar not to mention vacation & leisure travellers. SFO is the international gateway to the wine country and all the great sights of SF herself!

See above. Neither Silicon Valley nor venture capitalist generate hundred of daily trips to Australia.

One day Qantas might return (and I believe they should), however they must do so in an improved environment where revenues and cost have better balance. Maybe the Jetstar product or 787 is the answer. Time will tell.

Quoting gemuser (Reply 243):
It's perfectly reasonable that it be so. SFO is NOT as big a business centre as LAX, Australia does not have much industry that deals with Silicone Valley, some but not a lot, probably there is just as much that deals with SEA, which does not justify service either. The main business connection between Australia & the USA is to LAX & NYC, which is where QF serve.

   Airlines go where the money and traffic is. When it comes to South Pacific(and must of the Pacific in general) that demand nexus is LA not SF.

[Edited 2011-01-16 14:23:12]

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: longhauler
Posted 2011-01-16 14:19:25 and read 8683 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 246):
The Canada-Australia bilateral permits Canadian carriers to serve 2 points in Australia (SYD and one other of their choice...AC once served MEL and Canada 3000 once served BNE under that provision). Australian carriers can similarly serve 2 points in Canada (YVR and one other of their choice....QF very briefly briefly served YYZ sometime in the 1990s or thereabouts).


Yes, but there are/were fifth freedom rights as well. QF was carrying local traffic YYZ-HNL and SFO-YVR, and AC/CP was carrying local traffic HNL-SYD, as well as years ago NAN-SYD. What I was wondering if these rights still existed, as since AC started YVR-SYD non-stop, there no longer was any fifth freedom rights being used by either country's carriers. That was the basis of AC requesting LAX-SYD. At the time, they were told that the fifth freedom rights only applied to HNL and SFO to Australia, as that was the original CP and QF routings YVR-SFO-HNL-NAN-SYD.

I see this leaves only one daily flight SFO-SYD, UA, with the CO and US code on that flight as well. Surely that leaves room for someone to move in.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: sccutler
Posted 2011-01-16 14:27:42 and read 8651 times.

Quoting SFOA380 (Reply 238):
DFW is not a dynamic place, it's a boring place and businesses relocate here becasue it's cheap.

Not sure I'd agree that this is a boring place; having had the privilege of living in southern Caolifornia, Ifound that, while it was a fund diversion, the burden of living there made actually enjoying the putatively-better "stuff" more trouble than it was worth. YMMV, of course; I could tolerate it as a young professional, but I'd not opt to raise a family there.

As for "cheap," I'd have to offer that it's no so much "cheap," as it is "not stupidly expensive."

Quoting SFOA380 (Reply 238):
I live in Dallas and while DFW may be a good airport to connect through, it's a nightmare for O&D on American...leave out of D and arrive into A at midnight...you'll see what I mean.

You got that right!

Quoting Braniff727Ultra (Reply 239):
Remember, Silicon Valley pulls in more venture cap (VC) $$$$ than the rest of the US combined!

No really so sure any more. Cite some recent figures?

Quoting gemuser (Reply 243):
The main business connection between Australia & the USA is to LAX & NYC, which is where QF serve.

Can't imagine why that would be; one finds a much larger base of the most prominent businesses in Texas, than in California. This is, we know, a relatively recent phenomenon, but the trend continues and, indeed, accelerates.

http://157.166.255.24/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/cities/

California should mend its ways somewhat, but it takes a long time for entitlement, arrogance and hubris to recede.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2011-01-16 14:35:36 and read 8621 times.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 248):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 246):
The Canada-Australia bilateral permits Canadian carriers to serve 2 points in Australia (SYD and one other of their choice...AC once served MEL and Canada 3000 once served BNE under that provision). Australian carriers can similarly serve 2 points in Canada (YVR and one other of their choice....QF very briefly briefly served YYZ sometime in the 1990s or thereabouts).


Yes, but there are/were fifth freedom rights as well. QF was carrying local traffic YYZ-HNL and SFO-YVR, and AC/CP was carrying local traffic HNL-SYD, as well as years ago NAN-SYD. What I was wondering if these rights still existed, as since AC started YVR-SYD non-stop, there no longer was any fifth freedom rights being used by either country's carriers. That was the basis of AC requesting LAX-SYD. At the time, they were told that the fifth freedom rights only applied to HNL and SFO to Australia, as that was the original CP and QF routings YVR-SFO-HNL-NAN-SYD.

Correct, 5th freedom rights (for both Canadian and Australian carriers) only exist at SFO and HNL (and NAN).

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: alangirvan
Posted 2011-01-16 14:42:50 and read 8593 times.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 241):
DFW is going to be for pax to everywhere east and north of DFW except NY and the New England states

Except that La Guardia is one of the ports that Qantas mentions in the Press Release. So question would be whether NY based travellers would prefer a shorter taxi ride to LGA and then AA domestic in flight BOB service, or Qantas service between JFK and LAX. A quick look at Qantas schedules shows that Qantas codeshares on 11 daily AA flights between EWR or JFK and LAX as well as operating their own flight.

But why is Australia to SFO leisure dominated? SFO works as a gateway for Asian carriers and European carriers - two British carriers there, neither of which is a Star carrier. Cathay would not be operating multiple flights per day to a gateway that is just leisure or ethnic. AA may not be as big at SFO as UA, but prior to the start of DFW services, Qantas could have routed some traffic to NY and Chicago through SFO, as an overflow from LAX.

You could say that Southern California is a far bigger leisure destination than SFO. Business traffic? Surely no Business Traveller wants to think that their city is owned by one airline. If BA can sell Business Class out of SFO, Qantas should be able to do the same.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: gdg9
Posted 2011-01-16 15:43:33 and read 8481 times.

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 245):
Really, tell that to EK. Emirates has eluded (actually stated in one case) that IAH is slated for 380 service,

I stand corrected.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: cslusarc
Posted 2011-01-16 16:24:34 and read 8386 times.

I'm thinking that QF will need to add a tech stop mid-route on this route to improve the amount of payload it can carry. I went to the Great Circle Mapper and found out that the Samoan Islands are enroute between SYD and DFW. Could a revenue stop at PPG or APW make sense?

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: gemuser
Posted 2011-01-16 16:39:41 and read 8344 times.

Quoting cslusarc (Reply 253):
I'm thinking that QF will need to add a tech stop mid-route on this route to improve the amount of payload it can carry. I went to the Great Circle Mapper and found out that the Samoan Islands are enroute between SYD and DFW. Could a revenue stop at PPG or APW make sense?

Short answer - NO. If a tech stop is required before BNE then it probably be at NAN, where QF thru FJ & JQ have a significant presence. A scheduled revenue stop would kill the route and if it had one it would be AKL anyway.
The B744 is an interim aircraft anyway until post 2012 A380s or B789s arrive. As the A380 will arrive first I would guess that they will be employed.

Gemuser

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: thenoflyzone
Posted 2011-01-16 16:48:30 and read 8317 times.

Quoting cslusarc (Reply 253):
I'm thinking that QF will need to add a tech stop mid-route on this route to improve the amount of payload it can carry. I went to the Great Circle Mapper and found out that the Samoan Islands are enroute between SYD and DFW. Could a revenue stop at PPG or APW make sense?

That wont be attractive to business class passengers. Don't forget that the majority of the passengers on this flight will be connecting at DFW, meaning that if you add a tech stop, you just added another stop on an already long flight.

All along, I've been saying the B744 (even the -ER) isn't the right aircraft for this route (replies 56 and 230), but i believe QF would rather suffer in the short term and go non-stop eastbound with a payload restriction rather than put a tech stop along the way. the occasional tech stops will happen though.

Thenoflyzone

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2011-01-16 17:54:14 and read 8163 times.

The only real "shock" about this news, or at least what leaves me scratching my head, was how it didn't come with huge fanfare (in terms of the moments leading up to the actual announcement itself)...it just kind of, happened?

As it is, it's a big breakthrough for DFW...we'll be able to see the BA 747, the QF 747, the LH 343, and the KL 330 parked at D simultaneously. It will look like a solid, colorful lineup.

If it had been announced to be with an A380, imagine the glamor!

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: multimark
Posted 2011-01-16 18:03:09 and read 8140 times.

Quoting YYZALA (Reply 220):
They already do via YVR. SFO-SYD is covered by its partner, UA so it would make no sense to use own metal.

True, but UA already served LAX-SYD and AC still wanted the rights. IMHO YYZ-SFO-SYD (or MEL) would be a great test route for AC, and for *A it would help keep scare others off picking up the route.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Zkpilot
Posted 2011-01-16 22:08:06 and read 7913 times.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 242):

Maybe, but no official word on it in the press release by QF, as there are no 3 class B744ERs at the moment, nor will there be i believe in time for the 16 May launch.

There are when they don't sell First Class on them. They call it cosmetic configuration and they use it on various routes all the time. Basically First is sold as Business and they put their most valuable customers in there (Platinums, VIPs, Gold, Chairmans Lounge, etc). So the aircraft is Business, Premium Economy, and Economy. Also this cosmetic config saves on weight (less First specific stuff just Business stuff, also less baggage allowance in business than first). Depending on what cosmetic config QF chooses it can save weight elsewhere too (small C-zone section of business seats sold as Premium Economy - for Frequent Fliers etc), back rows of Premium Economy sold as Economy. The more seats that move downwards in class save on weight = range.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: AlitaliaDC10
Posted 2011-01-16 22:30:17 and read 7877 times.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 258):
There are when they don't sell First Class on them. They call it cosmetic configuration and they use it on various routes all the time. Basically First is sold as Business and they put their most valuable customers in there (Platinums, VIPs, Gold, Chairmans Lounge, etc). So the aircraft is Business, Premium Economy, and Economy. Also this cosmetic config saves on weight (less First specific stuff just Business stuff, also less baggage allowance in business than first). Depending on what cosmetic config QF chooses it can save weight elsewhere too (small C-zone section of business seats sold as Premium Economy - for Frequent Fliers etc), back rows of Premium Economy sold as Economy. The more seats that move downwards in class save on weight = range.

This is correct for the DFW flights as ZKpilot states it is cosmetic. This is curently the case on QF73/QF74 to SFO and the EZE flights which operate with a physical First Class cabin but sold as Business. As was the case last year on the QF29/QF30 MEL-HKG-LHR.

The ERs will def be used for DFW. The config shows as J66 (which equals physically to 14F+52J seats), W26 and Y215.

Topic: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: Braniff727Ultra
Posted 2011-01-16 23:21:36 and read 7794 times.

sccutler;

Quoting Braniff727Ultra (Reply 239):
Remember, Silicon Valley pulls in more venture cap (VC) $$$$ than the rest of the US combined!

No really so sure any more. Cite some recent figures?

Here you go:

http://pro.gigaom.com/2010/09/report...of-mobile-venture-capital-q2-2010/

VC Investment by Region
Three States Dominate Investment
California is Dominating
East Coast Investment Slowed While West Coast Grew


Read more: http://pro.gigaom.com/2010/09/report...ure-capital-q2-2010/#ixzz1BH4gAlc9

No hubris here mate just well established fact. Yes, Texas is a strong and growing market, yes a lot of the growth has been at our expense but last time I checked, we still have almost twice as many people here and we are expected to have a population of almost 60 million by 2050 whilst Texas will just be approaching our present population of 39 million by 2050. There has to be somehthing for all those people to do besides sit on the beach all day; wouldn't you agree?

Topic: RE: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 1
Username: SA7700
Posted 2011-01-17 00:55:22 and read 7681 times.

This thread will be locked for further contributions as it has become quite long at stage and slow to load for some members. Please feel free to continue your discussion in Part 2, which can be found here: It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO - Part 2 Any posts added after the thread lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes only.


Enjoy the discussion.  


Rgds

SA7700


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