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Topic: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: tope98
Posted 2011-01-01 13:12:54 and read 12149 times.

Happy New Year to eveyone!

I was looking for some flights and it looks like that starting next summer, LH is upgrading back its CCS-FRA to A346. Is it correct? If so, it would be one of the few good news on Venezuelan aviation.

Saludos,

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: ac033
Posted 2011-01-01 16:07:43 and read 12022 times.

That is correct sir... LH is upgrading to A346 for summer season

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: flyguy89
Posted 2011-01-01 16:19:07 and read 12004 times.

I thought LH was ending this route

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: UAL747
Posted 2011-01-01 16:41:02 and read 11968 times.

Wasn't CCS-FRA already A346 service this past summer?

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: tope98
Posted 2011-01-02 00:21:36 and read 11703 times.

Yes, it was A346 last summer, but it was downgraded to A343 on october after FRA-BOG service started. So good news then.

Thank you!

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: LipeGIG
Posted 2011-01-02 08:24:40 and read 11304 times.

This is good because will reduce the noise towards a potential cancellation of FRA-CCS because of FRA-BOG
Even better to see that LH is moving forward in Latin America and consolidates another market. Still missing GIG, LIM and SCL.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: RAFVC10
Posted 2011-01-03 02:36:31 and read 9972 times.

Quoting ac033 (Reply 1):
That is correct sir... LH is upgrading to A346 for summer season

From March 27 until October 29, daily flights from FRA to CCS.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: LH506
Posted 2011-01-03 04:47:04 and read 9873 times.

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 6):
From March 27 until October 29, daily flights from FRA to CCS.


Any changes on FRA-BOG for the summer?? Still 5/7 on 346? How is the route doing after two months?

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: LHPII
Posted 2011-01-03 13:05:27 and read 9619 times.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
Still missing GIG, LIM and SCL.

GIG is in a pipeline for this year.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: LipeGIG
Posted 2011-01-03 18:45:51 and read 9493 times.

Quoting LHPII (Reply 8):
GIG is in a pipeline for this year.

I hope this become true. I was told about October 2011, as FRA-GIG 5 or 6x weekly service. JJ will increase their GIG-FRA service to daily before June.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: LH506
Posted 2011-01-04 00:15:41 and read 9373 times.

Quoting tope98 (Thread starter):
Quoting LHPII (Reply 8):
GIG is in a pipeline for this year.

I hope this become true. I was told about October 2011, as FRA-GIG 5 or 6x weekly service. JJ will increase their GIG-FRA service to daily before June.

I actually heard that there is a great possibility that both LIM and GIG will come for winter schedule 2011.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: Robffm2
Posted 2011-01-04 01:38:54 and read 9306 times.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 10):
I actually heard that there is a great possibility that both LIM and GIG will come for winter schedule 2011.

If this comes true Lufthansa is finally returning to South America with the presence the continent deserves.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: RAFVC10
Posted 2011-01-04 01:46:19 and read 9294 times.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 7):
Any changes on FRA-BOG for the summer?? Still 5/7 on 346? How is the route doing after two months?

No... year round, 5x week with Airbus A340-600.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: IAD380
Posted 2011-01-04 05:57:40 and read 9132 times.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
Still missing GIG, LIM and SCL

And one other city in Brazil, such as REC, SSA, or CNF.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 9):
I was told about October 2011, as FRA-GIG 5 or 6x weekly service. JJ will increase their GIG-FRA service to daily before June

Won't the alliance that JJ/LA choose determine when LH returns to GIG? If JJ/LA choose One World, would LH more likely return to GIG sooner with more flights because JJ will change from a partner to a competitor in the largest and most important South American country? If they end up in Star, would LH postpone its return to GIG and codeshare on JJ flights?

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: Robffm2
Posted 2011-01-04 07:40:36 and read 9049 times.

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 13):
Won't the alliance that JJ/LA choose determine when LH returns to GIG? If JJ/LA choose One World, would LH more likely return to GIG sooner with more flights because JJ will change from a partner to a competitor in the largest and most important South American country? If they end up in Star, would LH postpone its return to GIG and codeshare on JJ flights?

I don't think that we will see any quick decision here. And any actual change will even take longer.

Thus Lufthansa will act on it's own. And they should act quickly before TAM picks up all the market. After all TAM and Lufthansa are still competing for business (I don't think they have an revenue sharing agreement).

Concerning the alliance question: Some weeks ago there were some news that JJ and LA might remain in their current alliances or that they might even be members of both. Whether that is feasible, sensible or allowable is another question.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: eastern023
Posted 2011-01-04 10:51:03 and read 8910 times.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
Still missing GIG, LIM and SCL.

It makes sense to think if JJ/LA or LATAM will decide for OneWorld (Why wouldn't they if Star already has AV/TA and CM). IMO LH would return with its own metal to those markets such as GIG, LIM and SCL simply because it will have no feeder unless they use AV (JJ feeds LH from SCL at GRU). On the SCL topic, I heard LH lost a lot of the cargo contracts after they pulled out a few years back, it will be an uphill battle trying to get those back from LA. On the other hands, AF is making a killing, so maybe its worth the try, now that the economy is better.

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 13):
Won't the alliance that JJ/LA choose determine when LH returns to GIG?

So maybe a return to GIG and a tag on to SCL...I say A346?

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: SCL767
Posted 2011-01-04 11:26:30 and read 8853 times.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 10):
I actually heard that there is a great possibility that both LIM and GIG will come for winter schedule 2011.

That is accurate. LH definitely plans on reinstating service between FRA and LIM by the end of 2011 or early 2012.

Quoting Robffm2 (Reply 14):
Thus Lufthansa will act on it's own. And they should act quickly before TAM picks up all the market. After all TAM and Lufthansa are still competing for business

Quite true, this also applies to other Star Alliance carriers which are increasing frequencies or launching new services into South America. For example, SQ will launch SIN-BCN-GRU 3x weekly in March. LH will operate MUC-GRU daily for Winter, 2011.

Quoting Robffm2 (Reply 14):
Some weeks ago there were some news that JJ and LA might remain in their current alliances or that they might even be members of both. Whether that is feasible, sensible or allowable is another question.

That is not feasible and LATAM will join only one alliance.

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 15):
IMO LH would return with its own metal to those markets such as GIG, LIM and SCL simply because it will have no feeder unless they use AV (JJ feeds LH from SCL at GRU).

LH currently code-shares with TACA between CCS and LIM:
LH7410: CCS-LIM
LH7411: LIM-CCS

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: LipeGIG
Posted 2011-01-04 17:38:46 and read 8664 times.

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 13):
Won't the alliance that JJ/LA choose determine when LH returns to GIG? If JJ/LA choose One World, would LH more likely return to GIG sooner with more flights because JJ will change from a partner to a competitor in the largest and most important South American country? If they end up in Star, would LH postpone its return to GIG and codeshare on JJ flights?

A little, but at the same point i believe LH is looking closer the increase of Rio O&D as well as the increased demand for travel to Rio due to new investments made by German corps as well as corps from other countries.
I don't think that JJ could postpone this return because JJ have limited capacity to GIG (220 seats/day) and right now even do not code-share with LH (this for me is very strange) and got loads around 85-90%

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 13):
And one other city in Brazil, such as REC, SSA, or CNF.

I believe we can see that in the future after LH resumes and consolidates Rio. Other potential route would be to POA as in the South of Brazil there's a strong VFR component as well as some business.

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 15):
So maybe a return to GIG and a tag on to SCL...I say A346?

That could happen but i do not expect. They rather do the tag from GRU as there will be room on FRA-GRU and MUC-GRU if they resume FRA-GIG.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: Avianca
Posted 2011-01-04 20:12:00 and read 8599 times.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
This is good because will reduce the noise towards a potential cancellation of FRA-CCS because of FRA-BOG
Even better to see that LH is moving forward in Latin America and consolidates another market. Still missing GIG, LIM and SCL.

I hope all is true, but just returned on weekend to LIM via FRA-CCS and actually the flight was good booked in ECO but not in C and F and a good bunch of passengers went to LIM including myself. so lets see

Quoting LH506 (Reply 7):
Any changes on FRA-BOG for the summer?? Still 5/7 on 346? How is the route doing after two months?

well actually not really good, just flew the 17th of december the route BOG-FRA, and eco was ony 2/3 full and business maybe 40% first maybe 20%, also my mother traveled FRA-BOG and again flight nearly empty... but looks like bookings in eco are high but business is still very empty in the upcoming weeks.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 10):
I actually heard that there is a great possibility that both LIM and GIG will come for winter schedule 2011.

yep, would be really great to have LH back here! positiv point is that LIM is a very good and good yilding cargo route this helps always as minimum revue per flight will be around 25.000 to 35.000 USD one way!

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 16):
LH currently code-shares with TACA between CCS and LIM:
LH7410: CCS-LIM
LH7411: LIM-CCS

yes and routing a lot of passengers on the flight

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: 797
Posted 2011-01-04 21:32:51 and read 8570 times.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 18):
well actually not really good, just flew the 17th of december the route BOG-FRA, and eco was ony 2/3 full and business maybe 40% first maybe 20%, also my mother traveled FRA-BOG and again flight nearly empty... but looks like bookings in eco are high but business is still very empty in the upcoming weeks.

Not surprising at all. I wasn't expecting this route to perform at least until mid-2011. I believe the A346 is being over-used on this route and firmly believe the service should be reduced to less flights per week. Having CCS, BOG and LIM would be biting too big of a chunk of the pie.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 16):
That is not feasible and LATAM will join only one alliance.

They will join Oneworld. LAN's role in the OW alliance is too important, whereas TAM's role in Star is merely present. Moreover, having Avianca-Taca and Copa in Star, the conflicts in the continent would be humongous having the largest airline group join them as well. My prayers go with SkyTeam   

Cheers!

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: SCL767
Posted 2011-01-05 00:52:04 and read 8482 times.

Quoting 797 (Reply 19):
whereas TAM's role in Star is merely present. Moreover, having Avianca-Taca and Copa in Star, the conflicts in the continent would be humongous having the largest airline group join them as well.

IMO, when Copa Airlines, Copa Colombia, Avianca-Taca, and Aerogal signed onto Star Alliance, it clearly showed that they are prepared to lose LATAM! Plus AC has not been quite "courteous" to LAN in anyway. LH knows that they cannot operate into SCL non-stop, LH and LX dumped SCL in 2009.

Quoting 797 (Reply 19):
My prayers go with SkyTeam
oneworld has been extremely courteous and has offered incentives to LAN, especially AA/BA/CX/IB/JL/QF. But, IMO, SkyTeam is also a great alliance and LAN will still maintain a relationship with AM and KE. Also, DL has not been "aggressive" towards LAN in anyway, and LAN currently maintains a good relationship with KE/AM. LA code-shares with KE on the LAX-ICN-LAX route daily. And JJ is now getting a "taste" of Star Alliance; which simply goes to show why Star ruined its chances with LATAM months ago.

[Edited 2011-01-05 01:01:05]

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: LH506
Posted 2011-01-05 02:39:36 and read 8349 times.

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 13):
Won't the alliance that JJ/LA choose determine when LH returns to GIG? If JJ/LA choose One World, would LH more likely return to GIG sooner with more flights because JJ will change from a partner to a competitor in the largest and most important South American country? If they end up in Star, would LH postpone its return to GIG and codeshare on JJ flights?



I am sure that the LATAM situation will push LH to start GIG rather sooner than later. The same is true for LIM. With AV-TA being a strong player in LIM there is certainly discussions ongoing how TA and LH could benefit from each other, especially if you take into consideration the growing dominance of LA(TAM) in LIM and Peru.

Quoting 797 (Reply 19):
Not surprising at all. I wasn't expecting this route to perform at least until mid-2011. I believe the A346 is being over-used on this route and firmly believe the service should be reduced to less flights per week. Having CCS, BOG and LIM would be biting too big of a chunk of the pie



I understood that LH has some lucrative cargo contracts from BOG. The 346 can carry a lot more than the 343 from BOG (altitude and runway length). That is the reason they chose the 346.
I agree though, that it will take some years until LH can fill all three destinations profitably year around.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: eastern023
Posted 2011-01-05 06:20:41 and read 8219 times.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 20):
LH knows that they cannot operate into SCL non-stop, LH and LX dumped SCL in 2009.

This is true. With the right cargo agreements and the better current economic environment it may work. It works for AF, someone has to compete head on to LAN. I get it LAN is a great thing, buthas also keep competition low at SCL.

Besides the point, so if Star wants more presence in latin america, how about UA/CO start with tag on from EZE or GRU to places like MVD or SCL. I think IAD-EZE-SCL could work.....on a 777. I know, I am day dreaming.....but still!

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: SCL767
Posted 2011-01-05 07:02:32 and read 8143 times.

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 22):
This is true. With the right cargo agreements and the better current economic environment it may work.

Lufthansa Cargo/AeroLogic currently operates FRA-VCP-SCL-VCP-FRA 2x weekly, (B777F).

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 22):
how about UA/CO start with tag on from EZE or GRU to places like MVD or SCL.

UA used to operate between EZE and MVD in the past; however UA pulled out of MVD. Currently, AC operates SCL-EZE-SCL 6x weekly, (B773).

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 22):
I think IAD-EZE-SCL could work.....on a 777. I know, I am day dreaming.....but still!

IMO, I think that SCL-LIM-IAD would be a better routing, utilizing a B763 for the time being...

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: LH506
Posted 2011-01-05 07:45:56 and read 8082 times.

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 22):
Besides the point, so if Star wants more presence in latin america, how about UA/CO start with tag on from EZE or GRU to places like MVD or SCL. I think IAD-EZE-SCL could work.....on a 777. I know, I am day dreaming.....but still!
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 23):
IMO, I think that SCL-LIM-IAD would be a better routing, utilizing a B763 for the time being...

If JJ leaves *A we will first of all see an adjustment of TAs SCL-LIM so it fits perfectly with UA/CO and a future LIM-FRA to have some presence in SCL. I do not think that AV Brasil will venture on GRU-SCL, so they cannot feed *A in GRU. A second step after capturing some traffic maybe a tag on some GRU/LIM/EZE/GIG/BOG flights.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: Robffm2
Posted 2011-01-05 07:50:05 and read 8168 times.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):

I believe we can see that in the future after LH resumes and consolidates Rio. Other potential route would be to POA as in the South of Brazil there's a strong VFR component as well as some business.

I think POA is much more likely for LH in comparison to the northeast.

Quoting 797 (Reply 19):

They will join Oneworld.

For purely personal reasons I hope on Star.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: SCL767
Posted 2011-01-05 08:22:59 and read 8119 times.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 24):
If JJ leaves *A we will first of all see an adjustment of TAs SCL-LIM so it fits perfectly with UA/CO and a future LIM-FRA to have some presence in SCL.

UA already code-shares with TACA/LASCA on the LIM-SCL-LIM route:

UA5363/UA5336 LIM-SCL-LIM 3x weekly (Operated by TACA)
UA5384/UA5392 LIM-SCL-LIM 4x weekly (Operated by LACSA)

Quoting LH506 (Reply 24):
I do not think that AV Brasil will venture on GRU-SCL, so they cannot feed *A in GRU.

Both Chile and Perú have Open Skies with Brazil, thus AV Brasil can operate into both Chile and Perú from any point in Brazil. For example, GOL currently operates GIG-GRU-EZE-SCL daily. AV operates BOG-SCL-BOG daily. TK can operate IST-GRU-LIM if TK wanted to operate between GRU and LIM.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2011-01-05 08:56:33 and read 8204 times.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 20):
LH and LX dumped SCL in 2009.

Lufthansa dropped SCL way prior to 2009. LX had no reason to continue SCL as a tag-on from GRU when JJ was perfectly capable of serving the market.

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 22):

so if Star wants more presence in latin america, how about UA/CO start with tag on from EZE or GRU to places like MVD or SCL. I think IAD-EZE-SCL could work.....on a 777. I know, I am day dreaming.....but still!

Once UA/CO tie up completely we will definitely see them beef up Latin America. They will be strong from their hubs in IAD, EWR, and IAH. I would not doubt UA/CO returning to SCL and eventually MVD, possibly even GYE. For these reasons, along with the AV-Taca and Copa situation, I really don't think that *A needs LATAM as much as OW does, and I hope that they will go with OW.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: LH506
Posted 2011-01-05 09:26:51 and read 8144 times.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 26):
Both Chile and Perú have Open Skies with Brazil, thus AV Brasil can operate into both Chile and Perú from any point in Brazil. For example, GOL currently operates GIG-GRU-EZE-SCL daily. AV operates BOG-SCL-BOG daily. TK can operate IST-GRU-LIM if TK wanted to operate between GRU and LIM.



My point is that competition on the route by LA and JJ is too strong and AV Brazil too small in GRU/Brazil in general to earn any money on the route.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 26):
UA already code-shares with TACA/LASCA on the LIM-SCL-LIM route:

UA5363/UA5336 LIM-SCL-LIM 3x weekly (Operated by TACA)
UA5384/UA5392 LIM-SCL-LIM 4x weekly (Operated by LACSA)



Thanks I did not know.

With the 10 pm LIM-SCL and the 8.30 pm arrival in LIM from SCL that would more or less convenient feed a potential LH from FRA, assuming the schedule would be similar to the BOG flight.
In addition you could take advantage of some other connections TA offers in LIM

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: SCL767
Posted 2011-01-05 10:08:00 and read 8097 times.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 27):
Lufthansa dropped SCL way prior to 2009. LX had no reason to continue SCL as a tag-on from GRU when JJ was perfectly capable of serving the market.

Especially since LAN got the cargo contracts.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 27):
Once UA/CO tie up completely we will definitely see them beef up Latin America. They will be strong from their hubs in IAD, EWR, and IAH. I would not doubt UA/CO returning to SCL and eventually MVD, possibly even GYE.

United will soon launch SFO-IAH-LIM (B763) daily, UA still operates IAD-EZE (B763) daily, IAD-GRU (B763) daily, and ORD-GRU (B772) daily. CO already operates EWR-BOG (B738) daily, EWR-GRU (B762) daily, EWR-LIM (B752) daily, IAH-BOG (B737/B738) 2x daily, IAH-CCS (B738) daily, IAH-EZE (B762) daily, IAH-GIG (B764) daily, IAH-GRU (B762) daily, IAH-UIO (B737) daily, Aerogal operates GYE-JFK (B763) daily, etc.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 28):
In addition you could take advantage of some other connections TA offers in LIM

TA will only be able to offer LH limited connections to small markets e.g. ANF, ASU, CUZ, *EZE, *GIG, *GRU, JUL, LPB, MDZ, MVD, POA, SCL, TRU, TPP, and VVI.

*LH already present.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: IAD380
Posted 2011-01-05 10:14:20 and read 8089 times.

Quoting 797 (Reply 19):
Having CCS, BOG and LIM would be biting too big of a chunk of the pie.

Maybe not. If AF can successfully serve these three markets, LH should also be able to do so. Germany probably has stronger commercial, financial, and tourist ties with Venezuela, Colombia, and Peru than France. As always, LH will carefully plan ahead, and it will enter LIM at the right time.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 21):
it will take some years until LH can fill all three destinations profitably year around.

This assumes that CCS, BOG, and LIM are part of the same market. Yet, they each have their own, separate challenges. LH never suspended flights to CCS, and a strong demand for FRA-CCS clearly exists because LH is upgrading service on this route. Yet, currency restriction imposed by the Venezuelan government probably make it challenging for LH and other foreign airlines to earn a profit on their flights to CCS. In BOG and LIM, LH will now have to rebuild their presence in these markets after abandoning them for several year.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
Other potential route would be to POA as in the South of Brazil there's a strong VFR component as well as some business
Quoting Robffm2 (Reply 25):
I think POA is much more likely for LH in comparison to the northeast.

Belive it or not, LH flew to POA for a short time in the late 1950s. After a long hiatus, LH could consider returning to two long-abandoned destinations, POA and MVD, with a triangle routing (FRA-POA,MVD-FRA) three times a week. The one disadvantage to POA is that it is in the south, and it is an easy connection from GRU or GIG. Flying to a northeastern city such as REC or SSA opens new markets, and travellers from Europe won't have to backtrack from GRU or GIG.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: SCL767
Posted 2011-01-05 10:38:44 and read 8043 times.

US also operates CLT-GIG (B762) daily. It should be noted that DL will increase frequency and capacity on the ATL-GYE route to 5x weekly (B752) and the ATL-UIO route (B752) daily. DL also operates JFK-BOG (B737) daily, ATL-BOG (B752) daily, ATL-BSB 5x weekly (B752), ATL-CCS (B752) daily, ATL-EZE (B764) daily, ATL-GIG (B763) daily, ATL-GRU (B764) daily, ATL-LIM (B763) daily, ATL-SCL (B763) daily, DTW-GRU 5x weekly, (B763), etc.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: 797
Posted 2011-01-05 13:28:32 and read 7914 times.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 21):
I understood that LH has some lucrative cargo contracts from BOG. The 346 can carry a lot more than the 343 from BOG (altitude and runway length). That is the reason they chose the 346.
I agree though, that it will take some years until LH can fill all three destinations profitably year around.

Good point. I recall hearing that LAN often has break-even load factors of 34% when their cargo bins are packed with expensive stuff. If the cargo deals between BOG and FRA are high, then welcome A346.

797

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: DCAjet
Posted 2011-01-05 13:38:58 and read 7907 times.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 29):
, IAD-GRU (B763) daily,

A few observations on the UA IAD-Brazil flights:

The IAD-GRU is daily with 777, not 763.

UA also operates to GIG nonstop from IAD with a 763 during the peak summer season - from 12/15 until 1/10. The rest of the year the operation is via GRU with a 777.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: LipeGIG
Posted 2011-01-05 17:22:17 and read 7813 times.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 21):
I am sure that the LATAM situation will push LH to start GIG rather sooner than later. The same is true for LIM. With AV-TA being a strong player in LIM there is certainly discussions ongoing how TA and LH could benefit from each other, especially if you take into consideration the growing dominance of LA(TAM) in LIM and Peru.

I hope that happens. LH is a big missing point in Rio as they can drive Rio-Asia market up enough to make Rio a target also for other carriers.

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 22):
Besides the point, so if Star wants more presence in latin america, how about UA/CO start with tag on from EZE or GRU to places like MVD or SCL.

The problem is that LF is already good for mostly routes and UA is the one with the lower focus in Deep South America. If they want to cover MVD or SCL, it would need to be non-stop or they can't compete for the best yields. The lower yield they can attract with interline agreements as now.

Quoting Robffm2 (Reply 25):
I think POA is much more likely for LH in comparison to the northeast.

I agree with you. POA is a much more interesting market.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 26):
Both Chile and Perú have Open Skies with Brazil, thus AV Brasil can operate into both Chile and Perú from any point in Brazil. For example, GOL currently operates GIG-GRU-EZE-SCL daily. AV operates BOG-SCL-BOG daily. TK can operate IST-GRU-LIM if TK wanted to operate between GRU and LIM

The only limitation is the fact that AV grows at a very limited rate, and i doubt AV can fight for GRU-SCL market. G3 tried and what they got ? LA increased flights and reduced fares.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: LH506
Posted 2011-01-06 03:56:32 and read 7653 times.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 34):
Quoting Robffm2 (Reply 25):
I think POA is much more likely for LH in comparison to the northeast.

I agree with you. POA is a much more interesting market.

So do I.

There is some German investment in SSA (Continental AG has a plant). Condor flies 2/7 to SSA which means German package holiday organizers must have contracts with ClubMed and Hotels in Sauipe. So there is some market from Germany, which may be developed over the years.
For the time being LH is certainly happy to send their NE Brazil passengers to GRU or to LIS. They may even acquire TP in the future, then there is no more need for an own flight.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: DCAjet
Posted 2011-01-06 07:03:17 and read 7525 times.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 34):
UA is the one with the lower focus in Deep South America

Thus far - watch for developments in this area once the merger is more definite - they will give AA and DL a run for their money. The SFO-IAH-LIM is a good example of that, although I am not sure which type of 763 will fly it, if the international 3 class one or the domestic 2 class.

It is not a matter of focus: pre-merger United is predicated on 3 classes of service on all their long haul international routes and only EZE and GRU can support that type of service year- round, hence why you only saw UA at very few airports in Latin America: once they closed down their MIA ops they could deploy their assets more profitably in Asia or Europe.

Regards,

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: Robffm2
Posted 2011-01-06 07:37:12 and read 7493 times.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 35):
There is some German investment in SSA (Continental AG has a plant). Condor flies 2/7 to SSA which means ...

In May 2011 DE will also start (again) to fly to REC (1/7).

I personally would love to see more flights from Germany to the northeast (including FOR). I think there is a lot more touristic potential and also some VFR business.

Edit:
But it's a general observation that Brazil generates quite little of it's GDP from the touristic area.

[Edited 2011-01-06 08:03:49]

[Edited 2011-01-06 08:04:12]

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: LPSHobby
Posted 2011-01-06 08:23:30 and read 7460 times.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 9):
hope this become true. I was told about October 2011, as FRA-GIG 5 or 6x weekly service. JJ will increase their GIG-FRA service to daily before June.

is there demand for both JJ and LH daily flights?

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: AF086
Posted 2011-01-06 09:20:15 and read 7417 times.

Quoting LPSHobby (Reply 38):
is there demand for both JJ and LH daily flights?

Easily. There's also demand for unserved markets such as AMS, OSL and BCN.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: LH506
Posted 2011-01-06 11:28:50 and read 7335 times.

Quoting AF086 (Reply 39):
Quoting LPSHobby (Reply 38):
is there demand for both JJ and LH daily flights?

Easily. There's also demand for unserved markets such as AMS, OSL and BCN.

If AF & JJ can fill three flights to CDG, LH & JJ should be able to fill two to FRA

Quoting Robffm2 (Reply 37):
I personally would love to see more flights from Germany to the northeast (including FOR). I think there is a lot more touristic potential and also some VFR business.

Edit:
But it's a general observation that Brazil generates quite little of it's GDP from the touristic area.

And LH does not care too much about package tour operators filling up their planes unless they go on a cruise with MS Europa or it is organized bei Meiers Weltreisen.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2011-01-06 15:28:40 and read 7200 times.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 34):
Quoting Robffm2 (Reply 25):
I think POA is much more likely for LH in comparison to the northeast.

I agree with you. POA is a much more interesting market.

POA has a runway of 7481 feet long and LH may find constraints for their 343s or 346s there and depending in how that station may be served and routed.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: LipeGIG
Posted 2011-01-06 21:49:45 and read 7124 times.

Quoting DCAjet (Reply 36):
Thus far - watch for developments in this area once the merger is more definite

Agree with you that South America is, together with Africa, one of the few markets where UA have limited activity and can add some new markets/routes. Hope they do that.

Quoting DCAjet (Reply 36):
It is not a matter of focus: pre-merger United is predicated on 3 classes of service on all their long haul international routes and only EZE and GRU can support that type of service year

I believe you do not took into consideration the oil route IAH-GIG. I'm sure the yields could even become better with F service.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 41):
POA has a runway of 7481 feet long and LH may find constraints for their 343s or 346s there and depending in how that station may be served and routed.

POA will only happen when and if the runway is extended.

Quoting LPSHobby (Reply 38):
is there demand for both JJ and LH daily flights?
Quoting AF086 (Reply 39):

Easily. There's also demand for unserved markets such as AMS, OSL and BCN.

Yes there's demand for 2 flights as they deal with different feed focus. JJ focus on O&D originating in Brazil while LH will focus on their network.
Remember about the 33% of GRU passengers that LH says in fact are going/coming to/from Rio de Janeiro. This alone would mean 50% of a A346. The rest would come:

a) from Asia
b) from places where LH is stronger than other carriers in Europe
c) from Germany

But... i don't see BCN as such a strong market. AMS and OSL i agree, and shall include Russia and Switzerland. Traffic Switzerland-Rio is growing and will continue to grow as FIFA, IOC and private investors/corporations week after week sends their managerial teams to Rio, headquarters for both World Cup and Olympics. This week another Swiss based corp decided to open offices in South America, and selected Rio to host it.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: LH506
Posted 2011-01-07 00:57:09 and read 7064 times.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 42):
But... i don't see BCN as such a strong market. AMS and OSL i agree, and shall include Russia and Switzerland. Traffic Switzerland-Rio is growing and will continue to grow as FIFA, IOC and private investors/corporations week after week sends their managerial teams to Rio, headquarters for both World Cup and Olympics. This week another Swiss based corp decided to open offices in South America, and selected Rio to host it.



Havn't even thought about that Switzerland thing. Good point. You think, Swiss could fill a 3-4 weekly ZRH-GIG in addition to LH and JJ to FRA and in addition to ZRH-GRU, FRA-GRU and MUC-GRU??

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: LipeGIG
Posted 2011-01-08 09:15:56 and read 6753 times.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 43):
Havn't even thought about that Switzerland thing. Good point. You think, Swiss could fill a 3-4 weekly ZRH-GIG in addition to LH and JJ to FRA and in addition to ZRH-GRU, FRA-GRU and MUC-GRU??

I remember last time i saw O&D info, ZRH-GIG was something like 20,000 passengers/year and this was 2009. After Rio got FIFA Headquarters for the World Cup and the IOC staff helping Rio 2016 team, as well as service providers, i expect this number to reach 30,000 in 2010 and 35,000 in 2011, enough to fill a 3-4 weekly ZRH-GIG and even a strong O&D for a daily service.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: AF086
Posted 2011-01-08 10:20:11 and read 6670 times.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 44):
enough to fill a 3-4 weekly ZRH-GIG and even a strong O&D for a daily service.

There are a few catches. If LH is taking so long to return to GIG, I wonder how long LX will take. Also the Brazil-Switzerland bilateral is nearing it's limits. It allows 9 weekly frequencies and 7 are already used by LX. The other thing is the lack of metal. The A333 cannot fly ZRH-GIG without heavy restrictions and the A343 fleet is already streched.

But I agree with you: ZRH-GIG is a very needed link. As for BCN I still keep my idea: I think that there is room for a 3x weekly service with an A332.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: LH506
Posted 2011-01-09 00:47:38 and read 6467 times.

Quoting AF086 (Reply 45):
There are a few catches. If LH is taking so long to return to GIG, I wonder how long LX will take. Also the Brazil-Switzerland bilateral is nearing it's limits. It allows 9 weekly frequencies and 7 are already used by LX. The other thing is the lack of metal. The A333 cannot fly ZRH-GIG without heavy restrictions and the A343 fleet is already streched.

They could keep two or three 332s. Perfect aircraft for ZRH-GIG.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: Avianca
Posted 2011-01-09 21:14:16 and read 6198 times.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 21):
I understood that LH has some lucrative cargo contracts from BOG. The 346 can carry a lot more than the 343 from BOG (altitude and runway length). That is the reason they chose the 346.
I agree though, that it will take some years until LH can fill all three destinations profitably year around.
Quoting 797 (Reply 32):
Good point. I recall hearing that LAN often has break-even load factors of 34% when their cargo bins are packed with expensive stuff. If the cargo deals between BOG and FRA are high, then welcome A346.

797

guys remember, that A343 of LH can carrie more cargo than the A346 due the lower deck kitchens + some toilets, bringing it that the A346 has lower positions for ULD's than the 343.

Also the A346 is officially hate by the LCAG ops employees because the weight and balance is very complicate due the longness of the aircrafts and its special conditions with the toilets and kitchens...

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 29):
Especially since LAN got the cargo contracts.

just for your info, LH and LA are sharing space on the cargo aicrafts and even pax flights from Germany to the Eastcoast of SouthAmerica and Chile...

Cheers
Avianca

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: LHPII
Posted 2011-01-10 09:45:43 and read 5988 times.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 47):
guys remember, that A343 of LH can carrie more cargo than the A346 due the lower deck kitchens + some toilets, bringing it that the A346 has lower positions for ULD's than the 343.

Wrong. Although LH's A346's have 5 toilets, galley and cabin crew rest in cargo compartment, they still carry more cargo then A343's

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: NYCFlyer
Posted 2011-01-10 10:11:31 and read 5950 times.

Pardon my ignorance, and I am not trying to make any political statements here. But how has CCS remained a profitable destination, to the point that LH would upgrade it?

With increasing nationalization of industry, and the flight of the Venezuelan middle and upper classes, it would seem to me that CCS is becoming a less profitable destination, not more. I imagine there is still a decent VFR or tourist market to Europe, but probably low-yielding. Someone who knows better, please educate me.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: IAD380
Posted 2011-01-10 11:57:46 and read 5870 times.

Quoting NYCFlyer (Reply 49):
how has CCS remained a profitable destination, to the point that LH would upgrade it?

Also, how can foreign airlines profitably manage their day-to-day operations in CCS when the government limits their ability to exchange foreign currency?

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2011-01-10 13:52:47 and read 5777 times.

Quoting NYCFlyer (Reply 49):
how has CCS remained a profitable destination, to the point that LH would upgrade it?

The code-sharing operations between TA-LH should had been contributed to the progress of LH in Venezuela.
TA LIM-CCS bears the LH code since 2008 approximately and it matches perfectly with LH CCS-FRA 7x weekly and back.
On the other hand, LH FRA-BOG 5x weekly started in October 2009 and that route has not been so far developed for the interests of Avianca-Taca at this time.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: Avianca
Posted 2011-01-10 19:51:02 and read 5734 times.

Quoting LHPII (Reply 48):
Wrong. Although LH's A346's have 5 toilets, galley and cabin crew rest in cargo compartment, they still carry more cargo then A343's

well you can check under page 26

http://lufthansa-cargo.com/fileadmin...ere_Lademittel_Aircraft_gesamt.pdf

actually 343-300 has 32 LD3 positions and the 340-600 only 30 LD3 or 11 LD7 positions for the 343-300 and only 10 LD7 positions on the 343-600 and the 600 has a much higher passenger load what means less positions for carga as they are used for luggage...

cheers
Avianca

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: LH506
Posted 2011-01-11 03:13:56 and read 5638 times.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 52):
Quoting LHPII (Reply 48):
Wrong. Although LH's A346's have 5 toilets, galley and cabin crew rest in cargo compartment, they still carry more cargo then A343's

well you can check under page 26

http://lufthansa-cargo.com/fileadmin...ere_Lademittel_Aircraft_gesamt.pdf

actually 343-300 has 32 LD3 positions and the 340-600 only 30 LD3 or 11 LD7 positions for the 343-300 and only 10 LD7 positions on the 343-600 and the 600 has a much higher passenger load what means less positions for carga as they are used for luggage...

cheers
Avianca

Actually somebody stated in another thread (I cannot remember where I read it) that the 346 can carry more cargo out of BOG (runway length and altitude) than the 343, because of its superior thrust vs. the 343 (the famous "hairdryers"). If this is true, I do not know. Certainly somebody on this forum can confirm (or not).

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: troest
Posted 2011-01-11 05:41:01 and read 5551 times.

Quoting NYCFlyer (Reply 49):
But how has CCS remained a profitable destination, to the point that LH would upgrade it?

I guess because of TA feed from LIM and AV from BOG. Also Venezuelan citizens do not need a visa to the EU?



Regards

[Edited 2011-01-11 05:47:00]

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: eastern023
Posted 2011-01-13 09:44:37 and read 5281 times.

Quoting troest (Reply 54):
I guess because of TA feed from LIM and AV from BOG. Also Venezuelan citizens do not need a visa to the EU?

I thought they did.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: Avianca
Posted 2011-01-13 21:18:58 and read 5108 times.

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 55):

still not!

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2011-01-14 05:11:36 and read 4994 times.

Quoting troest (Reply 54):
I guess because of TA feed from LIM and AV from BOG.

I think so based on my reply 51.
New ways of cooperation may begin due to LH FRA-BOG 5x weekly.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: LH506
Posted 2011-01-14 06:31:34 and read 4921 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 57):
Quoting troest (Reply 54):
I guess because of TA feed from LIM and AV from BOG.

I think so based on my reply 51.
New ways of cooperation may begin due to LH FRA-BOG 5x weekly.

Will be interesting to see how LH will handle the codeshares and connecting pax in the future.
I would envison FRA-CCS only serves for passengers going to Venezuela and maybe to LIM (at the end until the non-stop flights to LIM start it does not matter if they connect in CCS or BOG, though connecting in CCS is a nightmare if you have luggage). Connections to BOG, UIO, GYE like they exist today with AV or S3, would only be used on days LH does not fly to BOG.
Connecting pax to Colombia, UIO, GYE, PTY, SJO I guess will all be funneld through the BOG flight.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: eastern023
Posted 2011-01-14 09:16:43 and read 4834 times.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 58):
Connecting pax to Colombia, UIO, GYE, PTY, SJO I guess will all be funneld through the BOG flight.

Since JJ is known to be leaving Star LH is going to be left without a feeder partner for SCL. Is LH starting an agreement with Sky Airlines Chile (H2/SKU) to reach SCL? H2 just started SCL-EZE with a A320 and is planning to open SCL-GRU in the near future. I say SKY can be star associated partner in the mid future....

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: kiwiandrew
Posted 2011-01-14 11:38:04 and read 4754 times.

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 59):
Since JJ is known to be leaving Star




Are they really ? Please provide a source for this assertion . At the moment they have only signed a non-binding agreement with LAN for the LATAM merger which still has not passed all regulatory approvals . While it seems likely that LATAM will go ahead , and , if it does , it seems likely that they may opt to move out of Oneworld it is far from a done deal . Until such time as LATAM moves from theory to reality it is somewhat premature to state that "JJ is known to be leaving Star"

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: stylo777
Posted 2011-01-14 13:24:56 and read 4697 times.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 52):
actually 343-300 has 32 LD3 positions and the 340-600 only 30 LD3 or 11 LD7 positions for the 343-300 and only 10 LD7 positions on the 343-600 and the 600 has a much higher passenger load what means less positions for carga as they are used for luggage...

judging from the positions you are right in theory, however, on longer routes the 340-300 has also the MCR (movable crew rest) installed on position 31P which basically eliminates 2 LD3 positions. add to that the "hairdryer" under the wings and you lose the battle against the 340-600

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: SCL767
Posted 2011-01-14 13:45:03 and read 4684 times.

Quoting DCAjet (Reply 36):
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 34):
UA is the one with the lower focus in Deep South America

Thus far - watch for developments in this area once the merger is more definite - they will give AA and DL a run for their money. The SFO-IAH-LIM is a good example of that

CO currently operates IAH-LIM daily, (B752). UA is simply taking over the route from CO. The routing that UA chose (SFO-IAH-LIM) is not surprising since UA clearly wants to decrease LAN's yields on LAN's non-stop service between LIM and SFO.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 47):

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 29):
Especially since LAN got the cargo contracts.

just for your info, LH and LA are sharing space on the cargo aicrafts and even pax flights from Germany to the Eastcoast of SouthAmerica and Chile...

LAN CARGO sometimes contracts the services of a third party to operate certain charter flights. Currently, LH Cargo operates three weekly charter flights for LAN CARGO between FRA and VCP.
*LH-8266 MD-11F
*LH-8264 MD-11F
*LH-8276 MD-11F
*Charter flight of third party contracted by LAN CARGO.

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 59):
H2 just started SCL-EZE with a A320 and is planning to open SCL-GRU in the near future. I say SKY can be star associated partner in the mid future....

H2 has been planning on launching SCL-GRU for months now, yet nothing has materialized thus far. H2 probably knows that LAN will run them off of the route by offering cheaper fares.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: Avianca
Posted 2011-01-14 17:40:46 and read 4550 times.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 62):
LAN CARGO sometimes contracts the services of a third party to operate certain charter flights. Currently, LH Cargo operates three weekly charter flights for LAN CARGO between FRA and VCP.
*LH-8266 MD-11F
*LH-8264 MD-11F
*LH-8276 MD-11F
*Charter flight of third party contracted by LAN CARGO.

these are shared flights, same with the LA freighters to VCP-EZE-SCL

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2011-01-16 18:27:13 and read 4326 times.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 58):
Connecting pax to Colombia, UIO, GYE, PTY, SJO I guess will all be funneld through the BOG flight.

Lufthansa already signed a code-share cooperation deal with Avianca allowing the LH code in selected flights operated domestically in Colombia: Medellin, Cali, Pereira, Barranquilla, Bucaramanga, Cali and Cartagena.
We may expect an expansion of this service, in terms of international services offering connectivity to the mentioned international stations placed above. LH FRA-BOG may be daily in the future considering this purpose.
I will put attention in the segment FRA-LIM; it currently operates as LH FRA-CCS and then TA CCS-LIM and back.
We should also see in the future: LH FRA-BOG daily and immediately connecting to AV BOG-LIM or maybe possible dedicated flights named LH FRA-LIM.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: Avianca
Posted 2011-01-16 20:08:46 and read 4280 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 64):
Lufthansa already signed a code-share cooperation deal with Avianca allowing the LH code in selected flights operated domestically in Colombia: Medellin, Cali, Pereira, Barranquilla, Bucaramanga, Cali and Cartagena.
We may expect an expansion of this service, in terms of international services offering connectivity to the mentioned international stations placed above. LH FRA-BOG may be daily in the future considering this purpose.
I will put attention in the segment FRA-LIM; it currently operates as LH FRA-CCS and then TA CCS-LIM and back.
We should also see in the future: LH FRA-BOG daily and immediately connecting to AV BOG-LIM or maybe possible dedicated flights named LH FRA-LIM.

LH is selling already ex LIM the option via BOG like a hell, specially on the eastbound to avoid the "CCS guardia national nightmare"

Topic: RE: Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?
Username: eastern023
Posted 2011-01-19 13:40:13 and read 4059 times.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 60):
Are they really ? Please provide a source for this assertion . At the moment they have only signed a non-binding agreement with LAN for the LATAM merger which still has not passed all regulatory approvals . While it seems likely that LATAM will go ahead , and , if it does , it seems likely that they may opt to move out of Oneworld it is far from a done deal . Until such time as LATAM moves from theory to reality it is somewhat premature to state that "JJ is known to be leaving Star"


Please see my new thread "LAN & TAM sign binding agreement" ...I think you already had...


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