Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5255880/

Topic: History Of United Airlines In Australia
Username: washingtonian
Posted 2011-09-15 11:52:11 and read 6014 times.

When did United start LA & SFO to Sydney? What is the history of their service to Sydney, Auckland, and Melbourne? What aircraft have flown on these routes historically?

Finally, since Continental is now part of United, what years did Continental operate to Sydney?

Topic: RE: History Of United Airlines In Australia
Username: jetjack74
Posted 2011-09-15 12:25:37 and read 5936 times.

I believe UA began Australia services with purchase of Pan Am Pacific division in 1984-85. The the aircraft operated were the 747-100/200/400/SP and they my have operated a Tristar 500(when they had them) here and there from HNL-SYD, but I can't be certain.

Topic: RE: History Of United Airlines In Australia
Username: 767er
Posted 2011-09-15 12:32:10 and read 5912 times.

They also flew DC10s during the Gulf war.

CO commnenced operation in 1979 and ceased around1991. The majority of flights were DC10,latterly by 742. CO did not enjoy a good reputation in Australia - poor service, major mx issues but did serve an extensive network whoch included; MEL,SYD,AKL,NAN & PPG.

Topic: RE: History Of United Airlines In Australia
Username: CODC10
Posted 2011-09-15 12:44:00 and read 5856 times.

Quoting 767er (Reply 2):
MEL,SYD,AKL,NAN & PPG

BNE and CNS were also served from HNL and GUM, though never with daily flights.

Topic: RE: History Of United Airlines In Australia
Username: PITrules
Posted 2011-09-15 12:44:14 and read 5849 times.

Quoting 767er (Reply 2):
CO did not enjoy a good reputation in Australia - poor service, major mx issues but did serve an extensive network whoch included; MEL,SYD,AKL,NAN & PPG.

BNE and CNS as well. CNS is still served today.

Topic: RE: History Of United Airlines In Australia
Username: PI767
Posted 2011-09-15 13:24:40 and read 5744 times.

United began service to Sydney, Melbourne and Auckland during the first quarter of 1986.

Service was initially:

UA 811 LAX-HNL
UA 811 HNL-AKL
UA 811 AKL-SYD
UA 811 HNL-SYD
UA 811 SYD-MEL

UA 812 SYD-AKL
UA 812 AKL-HNL
UA 812 HNL-LAX
UA 812 MEL-SYD

UA 815 SFO-LAX
UA 815 LAX-SYD
UA 815 SYD-MEL

UA 816 LAX-SFO
UA 816 MEL-SYD
UA 816 SYD-LAX

Flight routings depended on day of the week and all flights were on some version of the 747 and the only non-stop from Australia or New Zealand to the mainland was the route between Sydney and Los Angeles.

The service remained pretty much the same up until Auckland-Los Angeles nonstops began on a thrice weekly basis starting August 10, 1991.

Brisbane was also added somewhere around this time.

Effective August 10, 1991:

UA 815 LAX-SYD
UA 815 SYD-BNE
UA 815 SYD-MEL

UA 816 BNE-SYD
UA 816 MEL-SYD
UA 816 SYD-LAX

UA 817 SFO-HNL
UA 817 HNL-AKL
UA 817 AKL-SYD

UA 818 SYD-AKL
UA 818 AKL-HNL
UA 818 HNL-SFO

UA 841 LAX-AKL
UA 841 AKL-MEL

UA 842 MEL-AKL
UA 842 AKL-LAX

Again, everything was some version of 747.

By June 8, 1994, Brisbane service had been dropped but the San Francisco-Sydney nonstop had started. (Both of these changes taking place between September 92 and June 94....as the September 92 schedule still shows Brisbane service and no SFO-SYD nonstops).

As for Continental, you can see on their April 30, 1978 route map ( http://www.departedflights.com/CO043078.html ) that Sydney and Auckland are among the cities the airline is authorized to serve but not yet operated.

It looks like by June 1, 1979 ( http://www.departedflights.com/CO060179.html ), Sydney service had begun with two weekly Sydney-Nadi-Honolulu-Los Angeles flights and two weekly Sydney-Pago Pago-Honolulu-Los Angeles flights, all operated with DC-10s. Auckland service consisted of three weekly Auckland-Pago Pago-Honolulu-Los Angeles flights.

In October 1980, Pago Pago service was dropped, but the airline added three new Sydney-Auckland-Honolulu-Los Angeles flights (beginning October 29, 1980) and twice-weekly Sydney-Honolulu-Los Angeles flights (beginning October 27, 1980). With nonstop service to Nadi, Auckland and Honolulu, departures now numbered seven flights a week.

Service to Melbourne began in the second quarter of 1981 with two weekly flights. One operated Melbourne-Sydney-Honolulu-Los Angeles and the other operated Melbourne-Honolulu-Los Angeles.

Through most of the 80s, not much changed other than the addition of Melbourne-Auckland and Melbourne-Nadi flights that continued on. Here is the September 1985 route map: ( http://www.departedflights.com/CO090485.html ).

In the last quarter of 1988, service was added to Brisbane and Cairns with a twice-weekly Honolulu-Cairns-Brisbane-Honolulu flight.

Then, by 1995, all Continental service to Australia and New Zealand had been dropped except for several flights a week between Sydney and Guam operated by Continental Micronesia and that service was finally dropped by late 1996 leavin no destinations in the area.

That was probably WAY more than you wanted to know, though.  

Topic: RE: History Of United Airlines In Australia
Username: EWRCabincrew
Posted 2011-09-15 13:41:33 and read 5689 times.

CO also flew AKL-BNE and AKL-PPT. As for poor service and mx issues, I worked those trips for 3 and a half years and rarely had any mx issues and we were know for friendly service. We had a good name in Oz.

Topic: RE: History Of United Airlines In Australia
Username: 767er
Posted 2011-09-15 13:50:07 and read 5653 times.

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 6):
I worked those trips for 3 and a half years and rarely had any mx issues and we were know for friendly service. We had a good name in Oz.

I flew CO twice and ever had any issues either.....food was was terrible but great service and loved those DC10s and that fantastic livery.

It must have been quite a lengthy triip for the FAs.

Topic: RE: History Of United Airlines In Australia
Username: icanfly
Posted 2011-09-15 14:47:59 and read 5516 times.

Does anyone have any background on why UA's MEL-SYD sectors have no domestic traffic rights? There are a lot of A-netters who would love to do this sector on a B747-400  

Topic: RE: History Of United Airlines In Australia
Username: jetjack74
Posted 2011-09-15 15:03:13 and read 5480 times.

Quoting icanfly (Reply 8):
Does anyone have any background on why UA's MEL-SYD sectors have no domestic traffic rights? There are a lot of A-netters who would love to do this sector on a B747-400  

Wouldn't that be a cabotage clause violation? I'm sure Australian laws prohibit a foreign carrier from doing carrying domestic pax without them entering or departing Australian soil on that flight?

Topic: RE: History Of United Airlines In Australia
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2011-09-15 15:06:57 and read 5464 times.

Quoting icanfly (Reply 8):
Does anyone have any background on why UA's MEL-SYD sectors have no domestic traffic rights? There are a lot of A-netters who would love to do this sector on a B747-400
Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 9):
Wouldn't that be a cabotage clause violation? I'm sure Australian laws prohibit a foreign carrier from doing carrying domestic pax without them entering or departing Australian soil on that flight?

Exactly. Basically the same reason QF don't have traffic rights LAX-JFK. Even with only one daily service I feel that QF could prove quite a force on this route if they were actually allowed to carry domestic passengers...

Topic: RE: History Of United Airlines In Australia
Username: QF108
Posted 2011-09-15 15:11:41 and read 5448 times.

As when most of these services started I was merely but an infant, and remember looking at slides yes those were the days, of when my parents used to take me out to the airport, how did Sydney handle all the extra airlines that we used to get back then, UA, CO, PanAm before UA, UTA, Luftansa etc, no doubt the QF fleet was a lot smaller (and just international back then too, ah TAA great domestic airline) but the terminal was nothing size wise to what it is now. Ok enough reminiscing back to work......

Topic: RE: History Of United Airlines In Australia
Username: PI767
Posted 2011-09-15 16:24:07 and read 5361 times.

Quoting QF108 (Reply 11):

As when most of these services started I was merely but an infant, and remember looking at slides yes those were the days, of when my parents used to take me out to the airport, how did Sydney handle all the extra airlines that we used to get back then, UA, CO, PanAm before UA, UTA, Luftansa etc, no doubt the QF fleet was a lot smaller (and just international back then too, ah TAA great domestic airline) but the terminal was nothing size wise to what it is now. Ok enough reminiscing back to work......

QF108,

If you have some more time to reminisce, you might enjoy looking over the complete flight schedules for Sydney dated July 1, 1983.....

http://www.departedflights.com/SYD83p1.html

Topic: RE: History Of United Airlines In Australia
Username: 767er
Posted 2011-09-15 16:24:08 and read 5361 times.

Quoting QF108 (Reply 11):
how did Sydney handle all the extra airlines that we used to get back then, UA, CO, PanAm before UA, UTA, Luftansa etc, no doubt the QF fleet was a lot smaller (and just international back then too, ah TAA great domestic airline) but the terminal was nothing size wise to what it is now. Ok enough reminiscing back to work......

SYD International Terminal was only half the size back then, if not smaller. I think there were about 14 gates!

Remember there were no middle eastern carrier and the Asian carriers were pretty much:TG, MH,SQ, CX, GA, JA and each only had one flight per day (unlike the thrice dailys of TG, SQ,etc).

QF and UA only had 1 flight per day to the USA.

Topic: RE: History Of United Airlines In Australia
Username: tayser
Posted 2011-09-15 16:33:14 and read 5340 times.

Was it 2000 when UA started LAX-MEL non-stop and that pretty much prompted QF to start it as well (And they eventually drove them back to SYD-MEL tag as QF got the 744ERs to do MEL-LAX non-stop)?

Topic: RE: History Of United Airlines In Australia
Username: RWA380
Posted 2011-09-16 05:38:59 and read 4884 times.

In 1991 I flew UA 817 SFO-HNL on 747-200, flight continued to AKL & SYD. Great F service too, treated as an Intl service. Neat thing that happened was our plane ferried an extra engine, between 3 & 4 to a disabled sister ship in HNL. Pilot made mention before we left the gate of this, so no one freaked out. Also only one of 2 times I've run between gates in SFO on UA, since our DC-8-71 left PDX late due to the concordes arrival into PDX earlier that day and ground stopped PDX for about 30 mins, but got great pics as it pulled right next to our DC-8, first time I realized how small the concorde was.

Topic: RE: History Of United Airlines In Australia
Username: STT757
Posted 2011-09-16 06:11:16 and read 4843 times.

Quoting washingtonian (Thread starter):
Finally, since Continental is now part of United, what years did Continental operate to Sydney?

1979-1996 to Sydney, however PMCO serves Australia to this day (Guam-Cairns).

CO's 1979 route map

http://www.departedflights.com/CO060179.html

CO's 1985 route map

http://www.departedflights.com/CO090485.html

CO's 1995 route map

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_HWefOh5ZGv...nental+Lite+Timetable+%282a%29.JPG

Topic: RE: History Of United Airlines In Australia
Username: airzim
Posted 2011-09-16 06:30:03 and read 4804 times.

Another unique feature of the CO service, the 10's operated with the Pub.

CO did the SouthPac milk run and generally catered to backpackers and tourist traffic. If you were on business, you flew PA/UA or QF to SYD not CO. After CO pulled out NZ filled much of the gap within inter island Polynesia services. But those were the days. Today we take for granted nonstops and daily service, but when flights only operated once or twice a week, the arrival of these large jets was greatly anticipated by the locals. Often it seemed half the island would come out to meet the flight. In many of the Micronesia fields, the runways weren't paved, just crushed coral. Good memories.

Not technically OT, in addition, CO flew nonstop LAX-PPT with 747's after the PE takeover.

Topic: RE: History Of United Airlines In Australia
Username: RWA380
Posted 2011-09-16 06:40:32 and read 4784 times.

I still think UA/CO has a grand opportunity to make the entire Pacific their own, with GUM & HNL. Bringing back some CO routes along with the current coverage, in addition to some more long and short haul flying. A pacific based fleet of 777, 767 and 738 aircraft could have them cornering the Pacific goldmine of pax and cargo services. Need a SFO-GUM soon.

Topic: RE: History Of United Airlines In Australia
Username: 767er
Posted 2011-09-16 13:22:47 and read 4153 times.

Quoting airzim (Reply 17):
Another unique feature of the CO service, the 10's operated with the Pub

I thought that was only US domestic?

I recall flying to LAX on CO via PPG and HNL and rthe whole of PPG turned up to see the arrival!

Topic: RE: History Of United Airlines In Australia
Username: QF108
Posted 2011-09-16 14:54:12 and read 4050 times.

Quoting PI767 (Reply 12):
QF108,

If you have some more time to reminisce, you might enjoy looking over the complete flight schedules for Sydney dated July 1, 1983.....

http://www.departedflights.com/SYD83p1.html

Thanks for the link PI767, will indeed reminisce some more. Going to miss seeing the UA colours when hopping back to SYD now, one of my fave airlines


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/