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Topic: Hawaiian Runway Incursion At KIX
Username: ha763
Posted 2011-10-14 09:21:06 and read 4873 times.

Hawaiian's flight from KIX had a runway incursion at KIX on Oct. 12. The pilots apparently received and acknowledged instructions to not enter the runway, but they did. A ANA Cargo flight was on approach and about 4 miles out. ATC ordered the Hawaiian aircraft off the runway and the ANA Cargo aircraft went around. The second and third links are videos of the story from a couple Hawaii news stations.

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20111013p2a00m0na010000c.html

http://www.khon2.com/mostpopular/sto...-Japan/pPrB6zAHAUCF6GTfwTutsQ.cspx

http://www.kitv.com/news/29473185/detail.html

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Runway Incursion At KIX
Username: skytony
Posted 2011-10-14 10:14:05 and read 4700 times.

The second link has a video. Did anybody notice the shot of the A330 taxiing with the engine cowling open? Is that normal?

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Runway Incursion At KIX
Username: ATLFlyer323
Posted 2011-10-14 10:18:44 and read 4680 times.

Quoting skytony (Reply 1):
Did anybody notice the shot of the A330 taxiing with the engine cowling open? Is that normal?

It was actually a 767 I believe, and if you look closely the engine cowling, it is not open, it's painted a deep blue/purple (I assume the original had to be replaced for some reason). I think that's what you are referring to.

-ATLFlyer323

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Runway Incursion At KIX
Username: n901wa
Posted 2011-10-14 10:45:10 and read 4575 times.

If you look close at the nose wheel of the A330 in that shot, you can see the tugs wheels, so it was under tow. And you can tow with the fan cowl open, as long as you have both hold open rods locked in. Looks like they spliced a few video shots   HTH

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Runway Incursion At KIX
Username: ha763
Posted 2011-10-14 11:29:05 and read 4408 times.

Quoting skytony (Reply 1):
Did anybody notice the shot of the A330 taxiing with the engine cowling open? Is that normal?

That shot was from a flight that turned back due to loss of oil pressure. This was within the first week of HA starting A330 operations.

There is a HA pilot on a.net. I would like to see if he heard anything about this incident.

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Runway Incursion At KIX
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2011-10-16 07:48:58 and read 2290 times.

Yes, there was good editing of the 767 with a United or Delta cowling and then the 330 normal, then the one with the engine cowl open and being towed, and then back to a different 330 under its own power taxing.

Not being a pilot, but being very aware of contextual differences in language construction and articulation. I wonder how much of this was a simple difference in common language or the difference is sentence construction?

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Runway Incursion At KIX
Username: longhauler
Posted 2011-10-16 08:00:54 and read 2265 times.

The HA aircraft was "Cleared to the holding position". This is a worldwide term meaning taxi up to, but hold short of the runway.

This is very confusing to North American pilots, as up until recently we used the (used to be legal) term, "Cleared to position and hold". This clearance meant taxi onto the runway, line up, and wait for take off clearance. This term was recently changed at North American airports for that confusion possibility.

We used to get memos all the time, reminding us when flying internationally to use caution when hearing the "Cleared to the holding position", it does not mean "Cleared to position and hold". While it is not justification for making the error, one can certainly see how it happened.

Hopefully as the "Cleared to position and hold" fades further from our memory, this confusion will end.

Ironically enough, a few weeks ago at LAX, (among the best controllers on the earth), we were cleared "To position and hold ... er ... I mean cleared to line up and wait". We are only human.


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