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Topic: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: Flying Belgian
Posted 2011-11-28 04:53:35 and read 11033 times.

I'm a bit puzzled and lost to say the least, when it comes to the future of the merged 777 fleet:

- What's the fate (= bases and routes) of the ex-CO 77E fleet ? I understand they all have the new cabins Y and B.F

- Will all ex-UA 777 (thus PW powered) have the same product ? F, J, Y+ and Y ? Will there be a separate domestic product like for Hawaii flights ?

- Base of the ex-UA 777 fleet ?

- Are the newer J seats on UA777s similar to the B.F seats of the ex-CO fleet ?

- Are all UA 763ER with upgraded interiors right now ?

Thanks for helping me out  

Topic: RE: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: 747400sp
Posted 2011-11-28 06:11:33 and read 10786 times.

Well some of the pre-merger UA 777, are getting up in age. Most of their non ER 777 200s, are on there way to the 20+ years old mark, and may be seeing retirement by the end of the decade.

Topic: RE: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: polot
Posted 2011-11-28 06:15:52 and read 10775 times.

Quoting Flying Belgian (Thread starter):

- Are the newer J seats on UA777s similar to the B.F seats of the ex-CO fleet ?

Yes. Not exactly the same but very similar.

Quoting Flying Belgian (Thread starter):
- Are all UA 763ER with upgraded interiors right now ?

All the international planes yes. The domestic ones are going to be receiving a new 2 class product (B.F. seats and economy with economy+) soon.

Topic: RE: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: TOMMY767
Posted 2011-11-28 06:29:39 and read 10697 times.

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 1):

UA got rid of a few 777s in BK. Were any of them of the 1995-1996 build?

Also UA had quite a few 777 deliveries up to and including the early 2000s.

Topic: RE: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: gigneil
Posted 2011-11-28 09:05:18 and read 10179 times.

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 1):
Well some of the pre-merger UA 777, are getting up in age. Most of their non ER 777 200s, are on there way to the 20+ years old mark, and may be seeing retirement by the end of the decade.

That's very very unlikely. They'll have at least to 2025, they're all still in great shape. Then the very oldest will be 30.

Lets talk to the other points.

- There has been no establishment of what will be a 2 class or 3 class route, except you can clearly see some routes are being flown from EWR now on the 3 class metal. The 777 fleet will be one fleet, so there's no basing of certain planes in the way you mention.

- All of the ex-UA planes will be configured the same way, 3 class IPTE, as of right now. The Hawaii fleet likely won't change for now.

- This is the world's largest airline. There's no one base.

- The CO businessfirst seat and the UA IPTE J seat are almost identical in seat construction.

- All UA 3 class 763s are upgraded to IPTE. Some are already planned to serve Newark routes. The 2 class ones will be configured similarly to the CO 764s.

NS

Topic: RE: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: tozairport
Posted 2011-11-28 09:12:05 and read 10144 times.

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 1):
Well some of the pre-merger UA 777, are getting up in age. Most of their non ER 777 200s, are on there way to the 20+ years old mark, and may be seeing retirement by the end of the decade.

Is this the new math or something? The first 777 was delivered on 5/15/95. I remember the day well because it's the day I got on the line at UAL. That is far less than "20+" years old. Please fact check before posting. Thanks.

Topic: RE: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2011-11-28 09:22:06 and read 10073 times.

Maybe you should do fact check and read what he said.

"are on there way to the 20+ years old mark, and may be seeing retirement by the end of the decade."

If the first one was delivered in 95, it will be 20 years old in 2015. And it will be 25 by 2020, or 20+ by the end of the decade.

Topic: RE: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: FlyCaledonian
Posted 2011-11-28 09:43:26 and read 9937 times.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 6):
Maybe you should do fact check and read what he said.

"are on there way to the 20+ years old mark, and may be seeing retirement by the end of the decade."

If the first one was delivered in 95, it will be 20 years old in 2015. And it will be 25 by 2020, or 20+ by the end of the decade.

Saying on the way to 20+ makes it sound like they are entering their third decade in service with UA. If he'd said "on their way to the 20 year old mark", then that would be more accurate, but even that is still three and a half years off.


Back to topic - I think it will be interesting to see how UA deploys the three-class 777 (and 767 fleet), and how the two-class fleet is similarly deployed. My hunch is that EWR will see a lot more three-class flying, whilst IAD could see a lot more two-class flying (particularly as the two-class PMUA 763s come on stream). I also suspect IAH could see select routes going three-class. LHR and FRA would be favourite there in my book.

Topic: RE: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: na
Posted 2011-11-28 09:44:10 and read 9917 times.

As non-ER 772s are not very much sought after I think UA will keep these planes until they arent useful anymore for a major carrier with a reputation to loose. They are still very good on Transcon and TA though certainly not the youngest anymore, and I agree that by the end of this decade these then true Oldies should go. UA also gets 787-9s A350s by that time which will be ideal 1:1 replacements. Should UA decide to sell more 777s, I think ERs are more likely to find a buyer.

Topic: RE: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: AA777223
Posted 2011-11-28 10:07:51 and read 9833 times.

I am very interested to see who becomes the new engine manufacturer of choice for the new UA. As we all know, UA was a virtually exclusive PW flyer, while CO was a big fan of either GE with RR on the 75s (the manufacturers that I personally think are better 2 out of the 3). I know that there are some UA and some CO influences on the new UA. I am just interested to see which one prevails on engine choice. Considering PW doesn't really seem to be doing a lot of work on new large engines (GTF excepted), it may not be huge issue. After getting their clock cleaned with the 4098 and the general lower sales compared to their competitors, I expect to not see many new PW powered frames at UA. Just my humble opinion.

Topic: RE: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: STT757
Posted 2011-11-28 10:11:50 and read 9819 times.

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 7):
I also suspect IAH could see select routes going three-class. LHR and FRA would be favourite there in my book.

And GIG, big energy route.

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 9):
Considering PW doesn't really seem to be doing a lot of work on new large engines (GTF excepted), it may not be huge issue.

You answered your own question.

Topic: RE: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: gigneil
Posted 2011-11-28 10:22:30 and read 9757 times.

Quoting na (Reply 8):
UA also gets 787-9s A350s by that time which will be ideal 1:1 replacements.

They have those planes basically signed up 1:1 to replace other planes already.

NS

Topic: RE: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: dfambro
Posted 2011-11-28 12:37:45 and read 9405 times.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 11):
Quoting na (Reply 8):
UA also gets 787-9s A350s by that time which will be ideal 1:1 replacements.

They have those planes basically signed up 1:1 to replace other planes already.

I view the 50 options of each as a placeholder for potential 777 replacement aircraft. But the 25 firm are replacements for 767 and 747 PMUA aircraft, as you say.

Topic: RE: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: gigneil
Posted 2011-11-28 13:33:56 and read 8838 times.

They do have a total of 50 firm 787s! But it works out to about the total of 767s they have today.

I can't help but be optimistic, as you are, about the options.

NS

Topic: RE: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: 777STL
Posted 2011-11-28 13:54:48 and read 8544 times.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 4):
That's very very unlikely. They'll have at least to 2025, they're all still in great shape. Then the very oldest will be 30.

Indeed. I flew N777UA from FRA-ORD a few weeks ago - it's the oldest UA T7 in service and the first 777 ever delivered. She was in great shape, she had the new CO/UA livery and the interior looked brand new. I don't see those earlier T7s going anywhere, anytime soon.

Topic: RE: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: SonomaFlyer
Posted 2011-11-28 14:08:56 and read 8338 times.

Once the 787's come on line, we'll see quite a few changes. A lot I think depends on the cost of Jet A as well as the overall economic situation. Thinking optimistically, UA could increase service frequency to their lucrative routes and expand out to new destinations with the 787's as they arrive.

We should expect the two class 763's to ply some of CO's current 757 routes (especially in the summer) and perhaps year round if they have the cargo and a bit of an uptick in passenger demand to justify the switch.

The current ETOPS 757's for the old CO could open up thinner routes to South America or other Euro destinations from EWR. We can assume the two class 763's could be brought in as things develop.

The 787's will open up new destinations of the long and thin variety (such as SFO and/or LAX to BOM or DEL).

There are literally a ton of different combinations which could be employed as UA takes the 787's aboard in quantity.

UA just needs to get their labor situation sorted.

Topic: RE: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: Thrust
Posted 2011-11-28 16:41:50 and read 6915 times.

I would think that the older 777s would be the first to go. It seems like in general that the domestic ones fly the same transatlantic routes as the -ERs. I don't know how many they need for their routes though, so this is just an educated guess. Since many of UA's 777s are on average older than CO's, I would imagine they would be sold first. UA's oldest 777 is nearing almost 20 years in age.

Topic: RE: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: xdlx
Posted 2011-11-28 17:37:03 and read 6376 times.

UA will order 60 77W to replace the PW fleet and 744

Topic: RE: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: gigneil
Posted 2011-11-28 18:37:49 and read 5879 times.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 15):
The 787's will open up new destinations of the long and thin variety (such as SFO and/or LAX to BOM or DEL).

I'd think that SFO to either would be able to fill a 777 today, but sure perhaps a 787. I hope they are inventive enough to deploy them on such a route.

LAX is too far, sadly the 787 is just not going to come through on range like that.

Quoting xdlx (Reply 17):
UA will order 60 77W to replace the PW fleet and 744

Right. At this point, that'd be really irresponsible.

NS

Topic: RE: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: washingtonian
Posted 2011-11-28 18:59:57 and read 5684 times.

Quoting 777STL (Reply 14):
She was in great shape, she had the new CO/UA livery and the interior looked brand new.

It probably just received the new cabin modifications, so for all intents and purposes it has a brand new cabin!

With every generation of new aircraft, the older ones are not quite the same as an older aircraft of a previous generation. A 20 year old 777 is not the same as a 20 year old 742 was in 2000.

Quoting Flying Belgian (Thread starter):
- What's the fate (= bases and routes) of the ex-CO 77E fleet ? I understand they all have the new cabins Y and B.F

Yes, and they are relatively new so they will be around for quite some time.

Quoting Flying Belgian (Thread starter):
- Will all ex-UA 777 (thus PW powered) have the same product ? F, J, Y+ and Y ? Will there be a separate domestic product like for Hawaii flights ?

The 6 domestic 777s are not being changed for now.

Quoting Flying Belgian (Thread starter):
- Base of the ex-UA 777 fleet ?

All over, just as now. I tend to think that United will try to keep the GE-powered ex-CO 777s flying from one or two bases in order to simplify maintenance, but who knows. I'd guess from Newark and Dulles--Dulles has a lot of 777 routes that would be fine on 2-class birds, and some of them are long range routes such as IAD-PEK/NRT/DXB/KWI, etc. But they'll be all throughout the system in the coming years.

Quoting Flying Belgian (Thread starter):
- Are the newer J seats on UA777s similar to the B.F seats of the ex-CO fleet ?

Yes, almost the same. Much more similar than Delta and Northwest's premium products at the time of their merger.

Quoting Flying Belgian (Thread starter):
- Are all UA 763ER with upgraded interiors right now ?

Pre-merger, United had 21 3-class international 763ERs that all had the upgraded interiors and 14 2-class domestic 763ERs. United has since announced that those 14 763ERs will receive upgrades to become 2-class international 763ERs. They will receive the pre-merger Continental Business First seat (which is almost identical to the pre-merger United Business class seat) and AVOD in Coach (which the 21 other 763ERs lack), as well as Economy Plus and Channel 9.

Topic: RE: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: 777STL
Posted 2011-11-28 19:11:14 and read 5571 times.

Quoting Thrust (Reply 16):
It seems like in general that the domestic ones fly the same transatlantic routes as the -ERs.

Yes and no. There are two different subfleets of the A-models. One is internationally configured and flies mostly internationally to Europe. The other has the domestic configuration and flies almost exclusively to Hawaii and on other domestic routes. Never say never, but I think a domestic configured model flying internationally is a rarity. They don't have a business class and the first class is rather rough on those birds.

Quoting Thrust (Reply 16):
UA's oldest 777 is nearing almost 20 years in age.

Not to pick nits, but the oldest 777 is only 16 years old.

Topic: RE: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: FX1816
Posted 2011-11-28 19:15:30 and read 5534 times.

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 19):
A 20 year old 777 is not the same as a 20 year old 742 was in 2000.

Given that there is NO such thing as a 20 year old 777, there is really no comparison to be made.

Quoting 777STL (Reply 20):
Quoting Thrust (Reply 16):
UA's oldest 777 is nearing almost 20 years in age.

Not to pick nits, but the oldest 777 is only 16 years old.

It really just appears as though some aren't reading every post!

FX1816

Topic: RE: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: gigneil
Posted 2011-11-28 19:19:58 and read 5476 times.

Thank you, Washingtonian, for re-answering everything.  

NS

Topic: RE: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: tozairport
Posted 2011-11-29 00:40:14 and read 3876 times.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 6):
Maybe you should do fact check and read what he said.

"are on there way to the 20+ years old mark, and may be seeing retirement by the end of the decade."

Oooohhh, I am soooo sorry. You are right. After all, the 787 that is due to be delivered to UA is on it's way to the 20+ years in service. They should retire it NOW. What could they be thinking?????

Yikes!

Topic: RE: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: Flying Belgian
Posted 2011-11-29 01:38:31 and read 3694 times.

Thanks a lot everyone for your precious input.  

Not easy to follow, but these fleet merger things are never easy to follow.

Just a small last question, the 764ER:

What's the definive post merger config ? Any idea of they'll be used ?

Thxxx.

Topic: RE: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: tpaewr
Posted 2011-11-29 02:20:04 and read 3596 times.

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 24):
What's the definive post merger config ? Any idea of they'll be used

There was a vague rumor that some would get an F cabin. But I never heard this from a solid source. And it seems to have faded. The first one (ship 60) has been refitted 2 cabin with PMCO lie flat J 39 seats and 204 Y. This was the plan long before the merger. The same 2 cabin lay out is now also planned for UA's domestic 763 fleet again using PMCO J seats, these will also replace the current F and C cabin on the P.S. 757 fleet. It will be also lie flat, albeit with 2 cabins in the future. These will also be the PMCO J seat currently on the 757-200 with CO.


On a side note, and this changes every other week, the lastest word is *some* CO 762s will get lie-flat due to the 787 delays.

Topic: RE: UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:
Username: Flying Belgian
Posted 2011-11-29 03:47:20 and read 3341 times.

flyerguide.com/wiki/index.php/Interior_Conversions_%28UA%29

This is also remarkably handy to monitor the retrofit progress.


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