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Topic: Final Report On LH Cargo Flight 8460
Username: Tobias2702
Posted 2012-02-23 03:28:54 and read 5631 times.

Saudi authorities have issued the final report investigating the crash of an LH Cargo MD-11 at Riyadh Airport on 27 July 2010. It can be downloaded for example here:
http://news.aviation-safety.net/2012...uts-cause-md-11f-landing-accident/

Strangely, the terms "Lufthansa", and "D-ALCQ" (also in images) are blacked out in the published version. I don't get it, what's the reason behind it?

[Edited 2012-02-23 03:30:16]

Topic: RE: Final Report On LH Cargo Flight 8460
Username: bennett123
Posted 2012-02-23 11:57:20 and read 5030 times.

What is the latest point at which the landing could have been aborted?.

Topic: RE: Final Report On LH Cargo Flight 8460
Username: Unflug
Posted 2012-02-23 19:49:15 and read 4637 times.

Quoting Tobias2702 (Thread starter):
Strangely, the terms "Lufthansa", and "D-ALCQ" (also in images) are blacked out in the published version. I don't get it, what's the reason behind it?

The German law regarding accident reports does in fact state that reports have to keep information on involved persons anonymous - see ยง 18 par (2):

http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bundesrecht/fluug/gesamt.pdf

The BFU claims on its German site that this rule is the reason for blackening the operator name and registration:

http://www.bfu-web.de/cln_030/nn_223...Riyadh__Ver_C3_B6ffentlichung.html

I have no idea why the operator and aircraft are treated like "persons"...

Topic: RE: Final Report On LH Cargo Flight 8460
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2012-02-23 22:33:04 and read 4477 times.

Quoting Unflug (Reply 2):
I have no idea why the operator and aircraft are treated like "persons"...

companies are juridicial persons represented by their officers.

The aircraft registration is blackend out same as car license plates on TV reports..

Topic: RE: Final Report On LH Cargo Flight 8460
Username: garpd
Posted 2012-02-23 23:30:30 and read 4398 times.

Can the registrations of German aircraft be re-issued?

If so, maybe that's why it is redacted, so that when re-issued to another plane, some moron won't panic everyone by saying "Oh, this plane crashed and burned previously!"

Topic: RE: Final Report On LH Cargo Flight 8460
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2012-02-23 23:37:39 and read 4378 times.

Yes, the regs can be re-issued. LH owns a long list and regs like D-ABYE have been on a good number of 4holers.

But that's not the point. Except a.netters and spotters the average public would not even know where to locate a reg on an aircraft.

Topic: RE: Final Report On LH Cargo Flight 8460
Username: Starglider
Posted 2012-02-24 02:48:02 and read 4163 times.

Hmmm . . .must be an error in the report on page 4 and 5:

First touchdown: -13 ft/sec descent rate (780 ft/min): normal load factor of 2.1g,

Second touchdown: -11 ft/sec descent rate (660 ft/min): normal load factor of 3.0g,

Third touchdown: -17 ft/sec descent rate(1020 ft/min): normal load factor of 4.4g.

The first 2 values, correct me if i'm wrong, should be swapped as a higher descent rate results in a higher load factor.

-13 ft/sec = 3.0g

-11 ft/sec = 2.1g

Or am i missing something?

Topic: RE: Final Report On LH Cargo Flight 8460
Username: na
Posted 2012-02-24 03:20:08 and read 4095 times.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 5):
Yes, the regs can be re-issued. LH owns a long list and regs like D-ABYE have been on a good number of 4holers.

LH is superstitious  No row 13, no row 17, no re-issue of the registration of a crashed plane. Look at the new 748Is coming, where D-ABYB is being left out because a plane with that reg crashed almost 40 years ago.

Topic: RE: Final Report On LH Cargo Flight 8460
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2012-02-24 03:25:52 and read 4079 times.

You may be right, although, whenever I get rwo 14 I know it is actually no.13..

Now the horse grooms can be happy that no future all cargo aircraft will receive the reg of that MD11.

Topic: RE: Final Report On LH Cargo Flight 8460
Username: tdscanuck
Posted 2012-02-24 07:58:29 and read 3758 times.

Quoting Starglider (Reply 6):
The first 2 values, correct me if i'm wrong, should be swapped as a higher descent rate results in a higher load factor.

-13 ft/sec = 3.0g

-11 ft/sec = 2.1g

Or am i missing something?

The descent rate is how fast the aircraft CG is moving vertically, the normal load factor is how fast the CG is accelerating...although there is some correlation between them, you can't directly convert one to the other. For one thing, they're different units...one is a velocity, one is an acceleration. But, more importantly, the normal load factor is all about how hard the airplane is pitching up at the moment of touchdown, which is independant of sink rate.

Tom.

Topic: RE: Final Report On LH Cargo Flight 8460
Username: Tobias2702
Posted 2012-02-24 08:46:56 and read 3636 times.

Quoting na (Reply 7):
LH is superstitious No row 13, no row 17, no re-issue of the registration of a crashed plane.

Though, today there is again an aircraft called "Landshut" (a 733 if I'm not mistaken). The hijacking of the Landshut in 1977 (a 737-200) might be the most famous event involving an LH aircraft.

Topic: RE: Final Report On LH Cargo Flight 8460
Username: Starglider
Posted 2012-02-26 00:55:40 and read 3199 times.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 9):
The descent rate is how fast the aircraft CG is moving vertically, the normal load factor is how fast the CG is accelerating...although there is some correlation between them, you can't directly convert one to the other. For one thing, they're different units...one is a velocity, one is an acceleration. But, more importantly, the normal load factor is all about how hard the airplane is pitching up at the moment of touchdown, which is independant of sink rate.

Tom,

Thanks for your explanation and adding the missing pieces. Goes to show one is never too old to learn.



Starglider


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