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Topic: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: CALPSAFltSkeds
Posted 2012-02-27 09:37:58 and read 9042 times.

From the Press Release:

CHICAGO, Feb. 27, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- United Airlines today announced plans to launch daily nonstop service between its hub at Chicago O'Hare International Airport (ORD) and Sarasota, Fla. (SRQ) effective Nov. 4, 2012.

The once-daily service will operate using Boeing 737-800 aircraft with 154 seats -- 16 in United First, 48 in Economy Plus and 90 in Economy.


Great addition, but wouldn't EWR-SRQ and IAH-SRQ service seem to follow? This would be the only Florida mainline city without service to IAH and EWR.

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: ikramerica
Posted 2012-02-27 09:44:24 and read 8985 times.

This was what I was advocating when FL pulled out, but expected an A319. Let's hope they add an E70 from IAH too. I'm guessing they won't go from IAD (or even EWR) while US flies out of Charlotte, but one never knows.

I would hope that this flight is timed to connect from the West. CO used to RON their flight from IAH in some seasons for better connections from the West.

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: TOMMY767
Posted 2012-02-27 09:47:04 and read 8965 times.

Boom. My crystal ball says IAD-FLL/PBI are to follow.

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: Sulley
Posted 2012-02-27 09:50:09 and read 8913 times.

I knew this was coming... now - IAH/EWR or IAD to SRQ, please.

ORD-PBI would be nice as well.

[Edited 2012-02-27 09:50:50]

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: saloman
Posted 2012-02-27 09:51:57 and read 8911 times.

Great news - getting to SRQ from western Canada was generally very difficult/expensive.

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: STT757
Posted 2012-02-27 09:55:20 and read 8866 times.

Great news, but they also need to bring back EWR-SRQ.

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: STT757
Posted 2012-02-27 09:57:11 and read 8844 times.

Quoting Sulley (Reply 3):
ORD-PBI would be nice as well.

They already launched that route. CO flt# 1149, daily ORD-PBI with a 737-800.

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: ORD14R
Posted 2012-02-27 09:59:12 and read 8825 times.

Wow, great add.

Are incentives involved here from SRQ? Also, I know CO was in SRQ not too long ago, but anybody know when UA last pulled out? I have vague childhood memories of flying ORD-SRQ on UA 732s and 733s (was always real excited back then to get the 733), must have been early to mid 90's at the latest. I don't think anybody else has flown ORD-SRQ since UA pulled out, correct? (MDW-SRQ is another story).

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: CODC10
Posted 2012-02-27 09:59:36 and read 8825 times.

The West Coast of Florida typically sees a lot of tourists from the Midwest and that market is not nearly as competitive as the Northeast to FL (both sides of the state). It's an interesting choice but one that certainly makes some sense.

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: mogandoCI
Posted 2012-02-27 10:10:26 and read 8743 times.

Quoting saloman (Reply 4):
Great news - getting to SRQ from western Canada was generally very difficult/expensive.

Replace SRQ with literally any airport in the US and that sentence probably still holds true. [sigh]

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: Sulley
Posted 2012-02-27 10:11:21 and read 8745 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 6):
They already launched that route. CO flt# 1149, daily ORD-PBI with a 737-800.

Oh, yeah. Derp.

I've been on the new FLL-ORD service - it was weird not flying CO into EWR, IAH, or CLE 

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: njdevilsin03
Posted 2012-02-27 10:25:04 and read 8629 times.

Think FLL/PBI-IAD was run for a lil a year ago or so...and dropped. I don't get how one or two daily FLL-IAD flights can't work.

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: OzarkD9S
Posted 2012-02-27 10:35:02 and read 8574 times.

The Boyd Group has some insight on the UA ORD-SRQ flight:

http://www.aviationplanning.com/HotFlash.htm

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: ckfred
Posted 2012-02-27 10:37:35 and read 8559 times.

The interesting thing is that the Chicago White Sox had spring training for many years at Sarasota. They left for Arizona in 1998. This may explain why UA hasn't flown this route for some time.

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: TOMMY767
Posted 2012-02-27 10:38:00 and read 8559 times.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 12):

Interesting how the Boyd Group said the flight would be operated by a 319

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: mogandoCI
Posted 2012-02-27 10:57:53 and read 8465 times.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 12):
The Boyd Group has some insight on the UA ORD-SRQ flight:

http://www.aviationplanning.com/HotF...h.htm

Is that the same Boyd group who thinks AA's bankruptcy would be all roses and peaches ?

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: olddominion727
Posted 2012-02-27 11:18:38 and read 8377 times.

Isn't the UA flight ORD-SRQ seasonal anyway? Or am I thinking of maybe RSW? I thought I had seen this run before?

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2012-02-27 12:20:48 and read 8176 times.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 12):
The Boyd Group has some insight on the UA ORD-SRQ flight:

http://www.aviationplanning.com/HotFlash.htm

But what is the big issue? WN flies MDW-TPA and MDW-RSW. It's not like they're completely abandoning the Florida west coast and leaving it to be lapped up by competition. SRQ falls in the dead center of both TPA and RSW. Whatever traffic heading to SRQ from Chicago can be routed through those two destinations, or just really isn't high-yielding enough worth chasing.

Southwest knows which markets are better for its business model and clearly, the yields on FL's MDW-SRQ operation weren't impressive enough to keep around.

These are natural, and inevitable, decisions that come about in a merger. Of course UA will go for this lower-hanging fruit, but does it really worth throwing out jargon such as "paradigm shift" between LCC and legacy carrier market share trends when most people would hardly consider SRQ a "substantial market?" Not to offend anyone, but it is primarily leisure-driven. It wasn't even a former Southwest market - it was inherited as part of the merger and is an asset they can freely shed if it won't generate revenue.

If WN pulled out of MDWLGA or MDWBOS and left it to the legacy competition, then I would see a lot more cause for concern.

[Edited 2012-02-27 12:24:29]

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: 727LOVER
Posted 2012-02-27 15:27:27 and read 7830 times.

The one thing I find surprising is that this is being announced so early.......but then again, maybe it's to thwart NK or B6

Quoting ORD14R (Reply 7):
anybody know when UA last pulled out?
UA pulled out in December 1994

Quoting ORD14R (Reply 7):
I have vague childhood memories of flying ORD-SRQ on UA 732s and 733s (was always real excited back then to get the 733

Heck, I can remeber when UA flew SRQ-PIT and SRQ-CLE.

Quoting ORD14R (Reply 7):
I don't think anybody else has flown ORD-SRQ since UA pulled out, correct?

Incorrect. American Eagle flew weekends only SRQ-ORD briefly around 1999-2000 with ERJs, cant remember which type.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 15):
Is that the same Boyd group who thinks AA's bankruptcy would be all roses and peaches ?

Same Boyd Group that predicted WN would keep SRQ

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 17):
Not to offend anyone

Too late.

the first time that a legacy carrier has entered a substantial market abandoned by an LCC.

720,000 is not substantial? Granted its not MIA, LAX, PHL.....but there are plenty of places smaller.

And it wasn't dropped by Southwest because of lack of traffic - but, according to WN, because of the carrier's operational costs.

So, that would be WN's fault, not SRQ's, correct?

But then Boyd Group says:
They are in business to make money, and they make business decisions accordingly. It's the main reason that Southwest has prospered for over 40 years. No point in staying at a destination that can't generate dollars to their bottom line.

So I dont know exactly what you are complaining about.

The service being eliminated isn't just some one-flight-per-day drop in the bucket. It encompasses approximately 370,000 annual passengers generating over $47.3 million in revenues. This includes nearly 120,000 local O&D passengers that AirTran is carrying annually to Chicago/MDW, with average load factors in the 80% range, and all-up passenger revenue yields somewhere near 14.5 cents.

So, no other carrier is allowed to come in & pick up this traffic???

I just checked DL, and it looks like they are bringing back SRQ-LGA in December, responding to B6.......although, they'll make it out to be because of new slots. 

[Edited 2012-02-27 15:59:58]

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2012-02-27 16:05:46 and read 7724 times.

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 18):
So I dont know exactly what your problem is.

I think you're reading way too much into my reaction.

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 18):
720,000 is not substantial? Granted its not MIA, LAX, PHL.....but there are plenty of places smaller.

And just like MIA, LAX, PHL, and the plenty of places that are smaller, all have undergone cuts, reductions, the whole nine yards made by both legacy carriers and LCCs. It's the cyclical nature of the industry.

Once again, I don't see what the earth-shattering news is here for SRQ.

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: 777fan
Posted 2012-02-27 16:44:59 and read 7637 times.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Thread starter):

CHICAGO, Feb. 27, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- United Airlines today announced plans to launch daily nonstop service between its hub at Chicago O'Hare International Airport (ORD) and Sarasota, Fla. (SRQ) effective Nov. 4, 2012.

Damn, they're about eight months late (for me); I'm booked BWI-SRQ on FL in about two weeks and gladly would've taken a roundabout detour through ORD for a family visit and mileage run.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 12):
The Boyd Group has some insight on the UA ORD-SRQ flight:

http://www.aviationplanning.com/HotF...h.htm

If this is how you choose to interpret it, then awesome, it's about time someone stuck it to WN!

777fan

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: andytb77
Posted 2012-02-27 17:35:54 and read 7516 times.

Quoting ORD14R (Reply 7):
Are incentives involved here from SRQ?

Yes:
United will receive a series of incentives from Sarasota-Bradenton, including $200,000 the first year and $100,000 the second year to set up and market the service, plus a $7 cut on departing passenger fees the first year. Piccolo said that is the standard incentive package being offered to any new or expanding airline.

Quote from this article from the Sarasota Herald Tribune:
SRQ" target="_blank">http://www.heraldtribune.com/article...s-adds-service-to-Chicago-from-SRQ

Another interesting thing in the article is that they will be picking up some of the rent that CO owed from their departure in 2008 that is owed through 2013.

I personally am very happy to see this service return to ORD. I still prefer flying into ORD over MDW.

[Edited 2012-02-27 17:40:20]

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: andytb77
Posted 2012-02-27 17:42:16 and read 7485 times.

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 18):
Quoting ORD14R (Reply 7):
I don't think anybody else has flown ORD-SRQ since UA pulled out, correct?

Incorrect. American Eagle flew weekends only SRQ-ORD briefly around 1999-2000 with ERJs, cant remember which type.

Also USA3000 flew some seasonal flights SRQ-ORD a few years back.

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: SYfan100
Posted 2012-02-27 20:37:53 and read 6603 times.

For those who don't want to fly into Tampa or Fort Myers it is a perfect destination! There seems to be a group of people that live in between Tampa and Fort Myers during the winter.
They would prefer more chances to fly in and out of Sarasota because it is more closer to where they live compared to Tampa and Fort Myers in the overall end.

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: Jerseyguy
Posted 2012-02-27 23:59:26 and read 5974 times.

My grandmother used to live about halfway between SRQ and RSW (a little bit closer to SRQ) and RSW was always cheaper.

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: billreid
Posted 2012-02-28 05:52:47 and read 5466 times.

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 18):
So, no other carrier is allowed to come in & pick up this traffic???

You are missing the point. WN can not manage the 120,000 SRQ-MDW pax profitably out of SRQ. Yet UA can? Good for UA their costs are now below WN.
The point is the low cost giant is now getting beat by legacy. Same in ATL, WN can not do Conx. They are going to focus on pt to pt, right. DL will kill them in ATL, and he erosion will begin.
Both DL and US are laughing, WN is finally in a corner they can't make work. And bags fly free was the dumbest mistake ever made by them, they either have to eat crow or lose billions.

They can not do conx in ATL or MDW or BWI because the prorate is below their staggering labor costs. So DL is laughing along with US, AA and UA.

WN could go CH11 within a very short period..... They have backed themselves into a revenue hole and will bleed to death in the next four years unless they get massive concessions from labor. If they have to walk away from these routes due to costs and they are now the ones who file the fare increases where are they headed?

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-02-28 05:57:09 and read 5445 times.

Quoting billreid (Reply 25):
You are missing the point. WN can not manage the 120,000 SRQ-MDW pax profitably out of SRQ. Yet UA can? Good for UA their costs are now below WN.

What evidence do you have that UA's yields ex-ORD are the same as WN's ex-MDW. If that's the case, why isn't UA still in MDW-DEN/IAD? Why isn't AA still in MDW-DFW? Why isn't DL still in MDW-CVG/MEM?

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: TWA1985
Posted 2012-02-28 06:36:06 and read 5338 times.

My neighbor worked for EA and was based in Chicago. She worked the ORD-SRQ-ORD flight often. In late '85 the route was taged onto RSW with a routing something like ORD-SRQ-RSW-ORD.

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: CODC10
Posted 2012-02-28 06:51:43 and read 5256 times.

Quoting TWA1985 (Reply 27):
In late '85 the route was taged onto RSW with a routing something like ORD-SRQ-RSW-ORD.

A number of airlines tagged SRQ to TPA or RSW, at least on certain frequencies. CO, UA, EA, DL did at different points, I believe.

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: FlyPNS1
Posted 2012-02-28 07:02:18 and read 5211 times.

Quoting billreid (Reply 25):
Good for UA their costs are now below WN.

False. You also ignore that UA will face a significant increase in labor costs as they try to integrate their labor groups.

Quoting billreid (Reply 25):
They are going to focus on pt to pt, right.

False, WN will connect passengers through ATL....just as they do through DEN, BWI, MDW, etc.

Quoting billreid (Reply 25):
WN could go CH11 within a very short period

WN sits on billions in cash and is reporting annual profits....so how are they going to file bankruptcy?

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: IndyWA
Posted 2012-02-28 08:18:47 and read 4909 times.

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 28):

A number of airlines tagged SRQ to TPA or RSW, at least on certain frequencies. CO, UA, EA, DL did at different points, I believe.

Oh yes, a lot of them did. My Aunt and Uncle lived in SRQ and when I was young I would go there for a few weeks every summer. They'd dump me off at the airport (both the old terminal and later, the new one) and I would sit there for HOURS. TW used to do STL-RSW-SRQ-STL ... CO did IAH-RSW-SRQ ... EA was from one of the NYC airports (can't remember which) .. I don't remember DL doing it but I know they had flights from MCO and UA had IAD-TPA-SRQ. I've still got a few printed out documents they gave to taxi drivers every month showing all the flights / arrival & departure times / cities. I should scan in a bunch of the pics of the planes taken from the viewing terrace of the old terminal...it'll be very retro 80's.

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: Pe@rson
Posted 2012-02-28 08:56:36 and read 4763 times.

Interesting stats:

In the past year an estimated 3.94 million passengers flew between Florida and Chicago O’Hare. Approximately 2.67 million of these were O&D passengers with around 804,000 connecting to other domestic US destinations from Chicago and a further 467,000 transiting in Chicago to international routes.

There are currently no direct flights between Sarasota-Bradenton International and Chicago O’Hare International, although AirTran Airways does currently offer a double daily link to Chicago Midway Airport, a route on which around 141,000 O&D passengers travelled during 2011.

Source: http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/...launch-chicago-a-sarasota-service/

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: EWRkid1990
Posted 2012-02-28 09:12:32 and read 4689 times.

I actually flew EWR-SRQ in 1999 on a 737-500. The flight was full, and I remember in 2003 hearing a boarding call for an EWR-SRQ flight while waiting for a flight to DEN. I wonder when they pulled the service...

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: STT757
Posted 2012-02-28 09:15:15 and read 4674 times.

Quoting IndyWA (Reply 30):
EA was from one of the NYC airports (can't remember which)

They've done both JFK-RSW-SRQ and LGA-RSW-SRQ,

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: CODC10
Posted 2012-02-28 09:46:28 and read 4535 times.

Quoting EWRkid1990 (Reply 32):
I wonder when they pulled the service...

Fall 2008, IIRC, as part of a major domestic service cutback in response to high fuel prices.

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: billreid
Posted 2012-02-28 18:07:49 and read 4323 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 26):
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 26):
What evidence do you have that UA's yields ex-ORD are the same as WN's ex-MDW. If that's the case, why isn't UA still in MDW-DEN/IAD? Why isn't AA still in MDW-DFW? Why isn't DL still in MDW-CVG/MEM?

What are you babbling about? What does MDW-IAD/DEN have to do with this???? AA, MDW-DFW???
Next we'll bring up DXB-LHR?
Reality is that FL SRQ-MDW was yielding higher than any TPA- ANYWHERE Chicago!!!!!!!!!!
UA jumped in because they saw the seat/mile revenues. After all under US law the airlines file the data.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 29):
False, WN will connect passengers through ATL....just as they do through DEN, BWI, MDW, etc.

Nope. That is why they are drawing ATL down 45%??? Delta is happy than one could imagine. FL was a thorn, WN is a teddy bear with the highest fares in the nation.
Come back to reality. Kelly stated THEY WILL NOT CONNECT in ATL, so are you saying he lied?

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 29):
WN sits on billions in cash and is reporting annual profits....so how are they going to file bankruptcy?


Brilliant. They can burn through that in 12 months. And with their present strategy it might be quicker.
Ego has killed many an airline. And bags fly free will do the same to them.

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: Atrude777
Posted 2012-02-28 18:25:51 and read 4297 times.

Quoting billreid (Reply 35):

Nope. That is why they are drawing ATL down 45%??? Delta is happy than one could imagine. FL was a thorn, WN is a teddy bear with the highest fares in the nation.
Come back to reality. Kelly stated THEY WILL NOT CONNECT in ATL, so are you saying he lied?

Bill..

Kelly has NEVER said they will dismantle the ATL Hub by 45% or take away ALL connecting. Kelly said they will draw down the Hub to focus more on Point to Point, but still keep connecting where applicable. The drawdown was expected to be about 13%, not 45%

Source: http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/p...lanta-flights-airtran-hub/551225/1

Kelly tells Credeur Southwest will trim daily departures in Atlanta by about 13% as it cuts some smaller markets out of the schedule.

"We'll unwind the hub and operate a typical Southwest point-to-point schedule," Kelly says to Bloomberg. "You'd rather have two nonstop passengers than one connecting passenger. AirTran yields a certain revenue per mile flown, and Southwest gets a premium to that."

Southwest is the largest domestic airline for a reason...because of their P2P flying, over 3,300 non stop domestic routes, the largest of any carrier in the US...and is profitable that way for a reason. I will not be concerned by the slight dismantling of the ATL Hub and it is certainly not going to cause WN to file CH 11 bankruptcy anytime soon. That is not to say WN is not entering tough times, absolutely I agree, but not CH 11 BK.

Alex

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-02-28 18:45:49 and read 4251 times.

Quoting billreid (Reply 35):
What are you babbling about?

You talk about costs, but you ignore the fact that ORD yields (i.e. revenue) are generally higher than MDW yields. If UA can make $100,000 of revenue from ORD but WN can only make $50,000 of revenue from MDW, it may not be a cost issue.

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: FlyPNS1
Posted 2012-02-28 18:52:59 and read 4231 times.

Quoting billreid (Reply 35):
That is why they are drawing ATL down 45%???

False.

Quoting billreid (Reply 35):
Kelly stated THEY WILL NOT CONNECT in ATL

He never said that...you made it up. If WN was planning on only O&D, they wouldn't launch markets like SDF-ATL or ORF-ATL. These markets (when paired with DL) aren't large enough to be solely O&D.

Quoting billreid (Reply 35):
Brilliant. They can burn through that in 12 months.

How can they burn through cash when they are posting profits?

Your blind hatred of WN is pretty insane.

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: 727LOVER
Posted 2012-02-28 19:25:03 and read 4195 times.

I believe this thread is about UA starting SRQ..........why are we talking about WN????????

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: billreid
Posted 2012-03-02 20:13:32 and read 3731 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 37):
You talk about costs, but you ignore the fact that ORD yields (i.e. revenue) are generally higher than MDW yields. If UA can make $100,000 of revenue from ORD but WN can only make $50,000 of revenue from MDW, it may not be a cost issue.


The reason UA took up the CHI route is that SRQ-MDW was yielding dramatically than any other FL route.
And they believe that their ORD yields are about the same thereby flying SRQ-ORD becomes an easy route to take over.
It is also brain dead of WN to drop it, but they are sitting back saying "we are WN and we don't have to be as good as UA, DL, AA or US in our planning. We are just like TW and PA and everything will always work.

Topic: RE: UA To Start ORD-SRQ In Nov 12
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-03-03 04:44:09 and read 3610 times.

Quoting billreid (Reply 40):
The reason UA took up the CHI route is that SRQ-MDW was yielding dramatically than any other FL route.

That's not really the right question, though. How do you know it was yielding enough?


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