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Topic: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: PPVRA
Posted 2012-03-02 06:36:07 and read 9583 times.

According to Folha.com.br, GOL is planing to fly from GRU to MIA through CCS beginning in July 2012. The airline is expected to use 737s and already has ANAC approval.

(Portuguese)
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/mercado...para-miami-a-partir-de-julho.shtml

[Edited 2012-03-02 06:47:52]

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: 727LOVER
Posted 2012-03-02 06:40:06 and read 9578 times.

OMG, I was JUST thinking about this 2 days ago, but figured their 73G couldn't make it from Brazil. With the stop in CCS, will they be using 73G or 738?

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: globalflyer
Posted 2012-03-02 06:42:06 and read 9547 times.

This is great news. I believe that G3 will be terminating their agreements with AA in August. I wonder if this means that G3 will be exclusive with DL since DL has invested in G3. The orange colours of G3 will be welcome in the US.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: PPVRA
Posted 2012-03-02 06:42:30 and read 9555 times.

Note: the article says Miami, not necessarily MIA   

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 1):

I would guess 738.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: jfk777
Posted 2012-03-02 06:42:49 and read 9560 times.

Didn't see this one coming, its bold of GOL to fly a 737NG so far north.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: A388
Posted 2012-03-02 06:54:09 and read 9490 times.

How trustworthy is this organization that publishes the article? Are there more sources about this?

A388

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: TR1
Posted 2012-03-02 06:54:42 and read 9474 times.

Would this flight use the GOL or Varig branding?

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: tonytifao
Posted 2012-03-02 07:02:14 and read 9441 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 5):
How trustworthy is this organization that publishes the article? Are there more sources about this?

A388

Sao Paulo's number 1 news paper!

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2012-03-02 07:04:57 and read 9432 times.

Would Venezuela give G3 5th freedom traffic between CCS and MFW?
Not sure Venezuelans are too keen to give traffic rights between Venezuela and U.S. to non-Venezuelan airlines, under the current circumstances.
The B737-700/800 has the range for Brazil-MFW non-stop, being Brazil MAO, BEL, SLZ or CGB.
IMHO, GRU-CGB-MFW may be a more attractive route than via CCS and G3 may be best staying away from MIA flying to FLL, specially now that Brazilian JJ is part of LA and LA+other LA airlines belongs to the same alliance as AA.

MFW = IATA for Miami-Ft Lauderdale-West Palm Beach metro area

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: tonytifao
Posted 2012-03-02 07:08:19 and read 9409 times.

They better have some good fares to be able to compete with all the non stops and widebodys

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: tim171080
Posted 2012-03-02 07:56:15 and read 9240 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 8):
MFW = IATA for Miami-Ft Lauderdale-West Palm Beach metro area

I didn't know that! Being a Miami resident for 5 years now, I never came across this 3LC. SFL would have been nice!

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2012-03-02 08:17:14 and read 9166 times.

Quoting tonytifao (Reply 9):
They better have some good fares to be able to compete with all the non stops and widebodys

That's probably why flying via a major Brazilian city currently with no direct link to MIA -but within B737 range - might be a better option than via CCS.
If G3 already got the MIA 5th freedom from Venezuela, then that flight will see very few GRU-MIA passengers, as CCS-MIA-CCS traffic might be able to cover all the operational expenses of the entire GRU-CCS-MIA route.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: C010T3
Posted 2012-03-02 08:33:08 and read 9076 times.

I have known about this for some weeks now, but chose not to write anything about it here just like some other A.net members, since there were no details and specifics about what they were planning. It's become clear now that they are bit clueless. We are seeing their amateurish ways about international service all over again. It's kind of embarrassing.
Gol had 14 Brazil-US and 7 additional Brazil-Venezuela frequencies allocated on February 16th.
http://www2.anac.gov.br/biblioteca/portarias/2012/PA2012-0326.pdf
http://www2.anac.gov.br/biblioteca/portarias/2012/PA2012-0325.pdf

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 3):
Note: the article says Miami, not necessarily MIA

First, Brazilians generally do not refer to South Florida Metro as Miami. Second, the Venezuela-Brazil ASA is specific about Miami.

Quoting A388 (Reply 5):
How trustworthy is this organization that publishes the article? Are there more sources about this?

Yes, there's even a press release.
http://www.mzweb.com.br/gol2009/web/...uivos/Release%20Voos%20EUA_eng.pdf

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 8):
Would Venezuela give G3 5th freedom traffic between CCS and MFW?

The Venezuela-Brazil bilateral agreement already allows 5th freedom rights to 50% of the 21 agreed weekly flights, but to MIA specifically.

[Edited 2012-03-02 08:39:39]

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2012-03-02 08:46:44 and read 9001 times.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 12):
Second, the Venezuela-Brazil ASA is specific about Miami.

Specific as flight must be to MIA or can't be to MIA?

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 12):
The Venezuela-Brazil bilateral agreement already allows 5th freedom rights to 50% of the 21 agreed weekly flights.

Well hope G3 sees the opportunity and does it the way it should. G3 on the CCS-Florida market would definitely leave an impression.
If G3 got allowance for 10-11 Venezuela-US flights then G3 should immediately study a GIG-MAR-MFW too, thrice weekly may be fine.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: C010T3
Posted 2012-03-02 11:11:45 and read 8716 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 13):
Specific as flight must be to MIA or can't be to MIA?

It must be to MIA. It's very improbable that Venezuela will reinterpret the bilateral in favour of other points in South Florida.
Other allowed 5th freedom rights destinations are Aruba, Cuba, Dominican Republic and Panama.

Quoting tim171080 (Reply 10):

I didn't know that! Being a Miami resident for 5 years now, I never came across this 3LC. SFL would have been nice!

That's because only GCM carries it, AFAIK.
MFW is the IATA code for Magaruque.

[Edited 2012-03-02 11:27:31]

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: A388
Posted 2012-03-02 12:20:32 and read 8578 times.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 12):
Yes, there's even a press release.
http://www.mzweb.com.br/gol2009/web/...g.pdf

Thanks C010T3, the way I read it, the document you linked only explains what they intend to do with regards to the frequencies to the U.S. and Venezuela. It doesn't state G3's actual plan to start flights from CCS to MIA. If you have more information, please let us know here.

A388

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: C010T3
Posted 2012-03-02 12:33:55 and read 8524 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 15):

Thanks C010T3, the way I read it, the document you linked only explains what they intend to do with regards to the frequencies to the U.S. and Venezuela. It doesn't state G3's actual plan to start flights from CCS to MIA. If you have more information, please let us know here.

That press release is just the airline cleaning the mess up. There are more than enough frequencies in the pool to apply for at any time. Gol made a huge mistake by applying for those frequencies before they had a plan.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: A388
Posted 2012-03-02 12:44:21 and read 8478 times.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 16):
That press release is just the airline cleaning the mess up. There are more than enough frequencies in the pool to apply for at any time. Gol made a huge mistake by applying for those frequencies before they had a plan.

So this rumor of G3 going to start a CCS-MIA route in July of 2012 is not true? Will it happen or not?

A388

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: C010T3
Posted 2012-03-02 13:10:07 and read 8408 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 17):

So this rumor of G3 going to start a CCS-MIA route in July of 2012 is not true? Will it happen or not?

It will probably happen, but it's not 100% certain. The July deadline comes from the fact that the frequencies return to the allocation pool if not used for 180 days. Furthermore, Gol stated that narrowbody aircraft will be used, so everybody is assuming that one of the flight will be via CCS. There are other rumours about the other flight being via BEL.
You saw the title of that press release "GOL ANNOUNCES A STUDY OF FLIGHTS TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA". It's not to the USA and Venezuela, so it's pretty clear that Venezuela will be a stop.
What they are still arguing is whether the flights will be launched at all. Basically, they have revealed something to the competition without having to. That's why the allocation request was premature, which is a sign of a very amateur strategic team there.

[Edited 2012-03-02 13:10:55]

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: PPVRA
Posted 2012-03-02 13:58:17 and read 8316 times.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 12):
First, Brazilians generally do not refer to South Florida Metro as Miami.

You never know with these journalists, especially when there is limited information as is in this case.

Thanks for the info on the ASA, btw.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2012-03-02 14:10:58 and read 8269 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 8):
MFW = IATA for Miami-Ft Lauderdale-West Palm Beach metro area

I wasn't aware of that. When did that happen? I show MFW as an airport code in Mozambique.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: BW424
Posted 2012-03-02 19:00:28 and read 7201 times.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 3):
Note: the article says Miami, not necessarily MIA
Quoting C010T3 (Reply 14):
t must be to MIA. It's very improbable that Venezuela will reinterpret the bilateral in favour of other points in South Florida.
Other allowed 5th freedom rights destinations are Aruba, Cuba, Dominican Republic and Panama.

I can tell you that it is MIA. I'm currently working on some market profiles to present to G3 so that they have an idea of the traffic inbound and outbound on their desired routings. But that is all that I can say, at least for now.

[Edited 2012-03-02 19:02:28]

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2012-03-02 19:20:21 and read 7118 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 8):
Would Venezuela give G3 5th freedom traffic between CCS and MFW?
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 11):
If G3 already got the MIA 5th freedom from Venezuela, then that flight will see very few GRU-MIA passengers, as CCS-MIA-CCS traffic might be able to cover all the operational expenses of the entire GRU-CCS-MIA route.


I know there's issues for flights linking Venezuela and the USA at this time.
On the other hand, Gol already gets traffic rights to operate flights out of Caracas.
The airline flies G3 GRU-CCS-AUA 2x weekly and G3 GRU-CCS-PUJ 5x weekly.




.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 18):
There are other rumours about the other flight being via BEL.


That makes sense.
JJ flew FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA 7x weekly with 320 prior to the launch of the dedicated JJ MAO-MIA 7x weekly with 763.

Regards.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: tonytifao
Posted 2012-03-02 20:32:53 and read 6833 times.

GOL used to be one of the most profitable airlines before buying RG brand/intl routes rights. Could they have not raised money back in the days to then acquire some 777s and make a nice intl product? These people seem pretty dumb to me!

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: NASCARAirforce
Posted 2012-03-02 21:37:34 and read 6659 times.

I was expecting to read about them flying their 767s that they have painted in Varig colors like they were doing for the charters to MCO

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: oksman
Posted 2012-03-03 06:09:06 and read 5830 times.

Quoting tonytifao (Reply 23):
GOL used to be one of the most profitable airlines before buying RG brand/intl routes rights. Could they have not raised money back in the days to then acquire some 777s and make a nice intl product? These people seem pretty dumb to me!

I agree with you. If they want to compete internationally, they should order 787´s and meanwhile, get some 777´s to start international routes non-stop with a good product. Seems to me that they are so worried to keep these international routes on a low budget, that the only way I think it might work is to keep fares real low, otherwise who is going to prefer a stop in CCS on a cramped narrow body with no IFE over a new wide body? My guess is that the international service they tried with the 767 did not work because the product was soooooo bad!

Anyway, I would fly any other company over G3 anytime, because I really don´t like their product....787´s could change these game.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: Rafabozzolla
Posted 2012-03-03 07:36:18 and read 5662 times.

According to Jetsite, a local Brazilian aviation site, the flights will start with a 737 but will switch to 787. Apparently, G3 is looking for the ones deferred by Gulf Air.

Link, in Portuguese only:

http://www.jetsite.com.br/2008_v35/Noticias.aspx?getByID=4287

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: AwysBSB
Posted 2012-03-03 08:22:54 and read 5673 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 22):
Quoting C010T3 (Reply 18):
There are other rumours about the other flight being via BEL.


That makes sense.


That makes sense indeed. Furthermore, BEL has one of the best location for a international hub of a Brazilian narrow-body fleet airline.
Out of BEL, a 737 reaches all neighbour countries, all Caribbean destinations, Florida, and countries in western Africa.
BEL just cannot become a hub like PTY because one's market is not as strong as, but BEL can provide G3 a good response to CM's actions in Brazil.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: VC10er
Posted 2012-03-03 08:57:11 and read 5618 times.

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 26):

A 787 GOL branded aircraft or a VARIG branded 787? It would seem to me that the NRG would be the way to go-- but it needs a really brand new experience with a new livery to match. The current does NOT look like a mainline international livery, the playful moving compass shouts LCC.

I wish them luck!

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: oksman
Posted 2012-03-03 13:12:15 and read 5450 times.

According to Jetsite, a local Brazilian aviation site, the flights will start with a 737 but will switch to 787. Apparently, G3 is looking for the ones deferred by Gulf Air.

Link, in Portuguese only:

http://www.jetsite.com.br/2008_v35/Noticias.aspx?getByID=4287

Rafa, do you think this is true? I´m not sure, first they say they need 9 787´s for the routes (which routes?), and later on the article it says 8 aircraft. Besides, seems to me that they have not ordered anything yet, nor have the money to purchase those birds. And when are Gulf Air 787´s supposed to be delivered?
When it comes to G3, it´s very difficult to believe, but I really hope this is true!

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: Rafabozzolla
Posted 2012-03-03 14:10:30 and read 5371 times.

I only know what I've read. My take on Jetsite is that they tend to be knowledgeable but their journalism is very inconsistent.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: C010T3
Posted 2012-03-03 18:17:50 and read 5147 times.

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 30):
I only know what I've read. My take on Jetsite is that they tend to be knowledgeable but their journalism is very inconsistent.

Journalism? Jetsite is all about Ctrl+C, Crtl+V, even from unreliable sources.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: Avianca
Posted 2012-03-03 23:15:32 and read 4969 times.

that would be more than great if the flight would go online.
This will certainly help to bring a little bit down the fares on CCS-MIA-CCS.
Gol seems to be establishing a nice ops in CCS, will they start with this flight a second daily GRU-CCS-CCS rotation or kick the PUJ and AUA flights? IMO they should start also with GIG-CCS flights and one of the flights could go to MIA the other one to PUJ and AUA.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2012-03-04 00:56:06 and read 4953 times.

Rumor has it Gol will soon make an order for nine 787s official.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: LipeGIG
Posted 2012-03-04 07:45:09 and read 4725 times.

This will probably become :

GIG-CCS-MIA service, establishing a Rio-Caracas service, oil to oil, allowing also customers on GRU-CCS-Caribbean to connect going to MIA.

CNF-BEL-MIA service, establishing CNF-BEL service on Gol, two markets with very strong mining activity ties, as well as being CNF the number 1 market in terms of Brazilians living in the USA (and Gol for obvious reasons can't focus on premium markets).

Quoting VC10er (Reply 28):
A 787 GOL branded aircraft or a VARIG branded 787? It would seem to me that the NRG would be the way to go-- but it needs a really brand new experience with a new livery to match. The current does NOT look like a mainline international livery, the playful moving compass shouts LCC

They need to create brand value and to offer something good to get a number of loyal customers otherwise will be hard to compete nowadays. DL know how can help on this, but i believe this attempt to fly to the USA will be the first step into a new business unit on G3 as they can't use the LCC concept on such large flights as the competition is getting better and wider. Few markets in Brazil right now lacks service (non-stop) and the most importants without service, can't be connected using 737's (POA, CWB, FOR, NAT and VCP)

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2012-03-04 14:15:35 and read 4555 times.

Quoting oksman (Reply 29):
According to Jetsite, a local Brazilian aviation site, the flights will start with a 737 but will switch to 787


I'm still puzzled in this regard.
If G3 would acquire 787s in the future for launching flights between Brazil and the USA, it might imply the suspension of the tag-on at either CCS or BEL. I'm aware about the lack of capability of the 737 fully packed to operate non-stop flights between GRU-USA, CNF-USA or GIG-USA. The 787 would do it comfortably, of course.
On the other hand, G3 is following the low-cost model where some services aboard don't seem to fit the long-hauls: no in-flight entertainment, meals, lack of J and F classes and so forth. I'm not quite familiarized about the level of service offered by G3 and I'd appreciate any correction.
We have to remember when the airline flew G3 GRU-LIM as non-stop which was dropped due to the inappropriate pattern to operate such four-hour flight following the low-cost model, in spite of the similar ticket rates offered by TA LIM-GRU and LP LIM-GRU, in those days. JJ GRU-LIM didn't fly that segment when G3 GRU-LIM was dropped around 2009, if I remember correctly.
With that being said, I'm not really sure about how'd they operate the intended services heading to Miami metropolitan area.

Regards.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2012-03-04 18:16:40 and read 4402 times.

When I 1st flew G3, I thought it was something like U2, which to my surprise it wasn't.
Question with the G3 model in South America is what kind of airline G3 wants to be? A LCC or an all-economy "standard" airline?
G3 as the Interjet of Brazil, that could be something but for +4h long flights where there are non-stop and/or wide-body options, G3 could face tough times.
If G3 flew GRU-LIM non-stop and fares were the same as LP and TA, then it wasn't operating as a LCC.
But no doubt, CCS-MIA-CCS could use an airline which offers seats at lower fares, provided passengers know what kind of service (or lack of it) they'll be getting for the cheaper fares.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: Rafabozzolla
Posted 2012-03-05 01:38:16 and read 4212 times.

I'd say, if G3 really fares into a true non-stop long-haul operation, it would be more like an Air-Berlin sort of model. High-density planes, and a small J cabin.

Their services are much more like a semi-LCC (advance seating assignment, free bag check, mileage program etc.) than a true European bare bones style LCC.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: A388
Posted 2012-03-05 04:07:12 and read 4138 times.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 18):
The July deadline comes from the fact that the frequencies return to the allocation pool if not used for 180 days.

Are you referring to the frequencies as in G3 having these frequencies to the U.S. and Venezuela now and need to use them before July to keep them?

A388

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: C010T3
Posted 2012-03-05 05:48:55 and read 4035 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 38):

Are you referring to the frequencies as in G3 having these frequencies to the U.S. and Venezuela now and need to use them before July to keep them?

Exactly, the following links are the official frequencies allocations by the ANAC:

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 12):
Gol had 14 Brazil-US and 7 additional Brazil-Venezuela frequencies allocated on February 16th.
http://www2.anac.gov.br/biblioteca/portarias/2012/PA2012-0326.pdf
http://www2.anac.gov.br/biblioteca/portarias/2012/PA2012-0325.pdf

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: tonytifao
Posted 2012-03-05 09:42:58 and read 3858 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 36):
When I 1st flew G3, I thought it was something like U2, which to my surprise it wasn't.
Question with the G3 model in South America is what kind of airline G3 wants to be? A LCC or an all-economy "standard" airline?
G3 as the Interjet of Brazil, that could be something but for +4h long flights where there are non-stop and/or wide-body options, G3 could face tough times.
If G3 flew GRU-LIM non-stop and fares were the same as LP and TA, then it wasn't operating as a LCC.
But no doubt, CCS-MIA-CCS could use an airline which offers seats at lower fares, provided passengers know what kind of service (or lack of it) they'll be getting for the cheaper fares

Brazil really doesn't offer any good domestic service. To me, TAM is also LCC on it's domestic service.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2012-03-05 10:15:59 and read 3813 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 36):
Question with the G3 model in South America is what kind of airline G3 wants to be? A LCC or an all-economy "standard" airline?
G3 as the Interjet of Brazil, that could be something but for +4h long flights where there are non-stop and/or wide-body options, G3 could face tough times.

That's kind of the million dollar question here, and I hope that (as Lipe pointed out) the relationship with DL can solidify GOL's understanding of who their target customer is.

The issue with G3 is that it cannot really cross-compare/model itself after other LCCs just given the sheer size of the Brazilian market and the growth potential. However the carrier chooses to align itself, it has to do so without looking at examples such as AirAsia, or AirBerlin, or Interjet, etc. It's identity has to come organically, and once it gets there, I think it will be a phenomenally successful airline.

WS, LA, SQ, WN, LH, EK, TK, FR, NK, etc. have all managed to accomplish that, among others. No reasons why G3 can't either.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 35):
On the other hand, G3 is following the low-cost model where some services aboard don't seem to fit the long-hauls: no in-flight entertainment, meals, lack of J and F classes and so forth. I'm not quite familiarized about the level of service offered by G3 and I'd appreciate any correction.

You're absolutely right, it does not, and especially if it wants to order widebody aircraft, it needs to determine whether it wants to standardize its product offering across its entire fleet or create a separate long-haul brand.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 35):
If G3 would acquire 787s in the future for launching flights between Brazil and the USA, it might imply the suspension of the tag-on at either CCS or BEL. I'm aware about the lack of capability of the 737 fully packed to operate non-stop flights between GRU-USA, CNF-USA or GIG-USA. The 787 would do it comfortably, of course.

I think the tag-ons from CCS to markets like PUJ or AUA are fine with the 737s since you have mostly leisure traffic who are much more price sensitive, whereas traffic into MIA is far more premium-heavy. The need for a nonstop, along with a solid product offering, will be vital elements for success.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: C010T3
Posted 2012-03-05 11:23:55 and read 3725 times.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 41):
whereas traffic into MIA is far more premium-heavy.

It is, but Gol is not able to attract that public. Gol will have to go for junk-yielding traffic on Brazil-US. Perhaps, the strategy is exactly that, but counting on higher-yielding traffic from Venezuela to balance it off.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2012-03-05 11:46:35 and read 3691 times.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 42):
It is, but Gol is not able to attract that public. Gol will have to go for junk-yielding traffic on Brazil-US. Perhaps, the strategy is exactly that, but counting on higher-yielding traffic from Venezuela to balance it off.

I'm not really sure what the nature of the yields are on MIA-VZ traffic, but there are a lot of players in that market, including AA and LAN, which go after that premium traffic and obviously have a more concentrated idea on how to cater to those travelers by way of product offering and pricing strategy over G3. So, therefore, how much of that traffic can GOL ideally expect to skim and walk away with?

[Edited 2012-03-05 11:47:04]

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2012-03-05 12:00:52 and read 3654 times.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 43):
I'm not really sure what the nature of the yields are on MIA-VZ traffic, but there are a lot of players in that market, including AA and LAN, which go after that premium traffic and obviously have a more concentrated idea on how to cater to those travelers by way of product offering and pricing strategy over G3. So, therefore, how much of that traffic can GOL ideally expect to skim and walk away with?

MIA-CCS traffic is very high yield lately.
The only important players - non-stop flights - are AA and LA. Passengers tend to stay away from Venezuelan airline SBA due to awful delays. Add to that, AA reputation in Latin America isn't the best and while it's a reliable airline, people more than often try to avoid them.
If G3 gets to fly from Brazil to MIA via CCS (and hopefully via MAR soon too), G3 should expect some level of success in the Venezuela-MIA market. Loads between Brazil and CCS, that'd be another thing.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 42):
Gol will have to go for junk-yielding traffic on Brazil-US.

Or IMHO, a non-stop from a Brazilian city with no current flights to MIA.
CGB (Pantanal) or SLZ (World Heritage colonial city) come to mind, which most likely are desperate to get some U.S. leisure traffic.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: C010T3
Posted 2012-03-05 12:22:31 and read 3614 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 44):
Or IMHO, a non-stop from a Brazilian city with no current flights to MIA.
CGB (Pantanal) or SLZ (World Heritage colonial city) come to mind, which most likely are desperate to get some U.S. leisure traffic.

Those are very thin routes. Even CGB/SLZ-USA markets are bigger.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: erikgnoha
Posted 2012-03-05 13:15:49 and read 3565 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 44):
MIA-CCS traffic is very high yield lately.
The only important players - non-stop flights - are AA and LA. Passengers tend to stay away from Venezuelan airline SBA due to awful delays. Add to that, AA reputation in Latin America isn't the best and while it's a reliable airline, people more than often try to avoid them.

Sorry but I disagree on this one. LA is not at all an important player on this route. They only fly 2 times a week, while SBA has 3 daily flights. It's true that SBA is known as an unreliable airline, but they are second by far on this route, after AA who has 5 daily flights on this market.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2012-03-05 18:08:22 and read 3376 times.

Quoting erikgnoha (Reply 46):
LA is not at all an important player on this route. They only fly 2 times a week


So it was reduced. LAN usually operated LA MIA-CCS 2x weekly and LA MIA-CCS-GYE-SCL 1x weekly.
I checked amadeus.net and LAN indeed flies only two weekly flights between Caracas and Miami at this time.




.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 41):
traffic into MIA is far more premium-heavy. The need for a nonstop, along with a solid product offering, will be vital elements for success.


Agreed.
That's why I'm not totally convinced yet about how G3 might operate healthy flights heading to Miami.

Regards.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2012-03-05 18:20:52 and read 3361 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 47):
So it was reduced. LAN usually operated LA MIA-CCS 2x weekly and LA MIA-CCS-GYE-SCL 1x weekly.
I checked amadeus.net and LAN indeed flies only two weekly flights between Caracas and Miami at this time.

Nothing has been reduced. LAN has never flown more than 2x weekly MIACCS.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2012-03-05 18:28:10 and read 3332 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 44):
MIA-CCS traffic is very high yield lately.
The only important players - non-stop flights - are AA and LA. Passengers tend to stay away from Venezuelan airline SBA due to awful delays. Add to that, AA reputation in Latin America isn't the best and while it's a reliable airline, people more than often try to avoid them.

As I would expect. However, even though AA may not have the best reputation in South America, it is one of their most profitable and prized assets in their route network. They will defend it to the core.

While I have flown G3 and think they have great service, they also need to know who they're going up against if they are to enter MIACCS with a single daily flight. Provided that the days of the AA and G3 relationship are indeed numbered, then there is no way American is not going to put up a fight here.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 44):
If G3 gets to fly from Brazil to MIA via CCS (and hopefully via MAR soon too), G3 should expect some level of success in the Venezuela-MIA market. Loads between Brazil and CCS, that'd be another thing.

Understandably, it would be pointless for G3 to fly to US points like ATL, even by way of their relationship with DL, given the fact that Delta already flies ATLCCS. Plus, the ties to Miami are far greater from Brasil and Venezuela than to Atlanta.

Nevertheless, I'm still scratching my head about figuring out what type of traffic will G3 be aiming for? For all you know, South Floridians may see G3 as another NK to get cheap fares to Latin America, which will tank yields.

I think there are just too few data points out there that is public knowledge.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2012-03-05 18:33:28 and read 3337 times.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 49):
While I have flown G3 and think they have great service, they also need to know who they're going up against if they are to enter MIACCS with a single daily flight. Provided that the days of the AA and G3 relationship are indeed numbered, then there is no way American is not going to put up a fight here.

What fight? AA can't add frequency and can't add capacity absent permission - and like with MIAVLN, permission is likely to be continually denied.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 49):
Nevertheless, I'm still scratching my head about figuring out what type of traffic will G3 be aiming for? For all you know, South Floridians may see G3 as another NK to get cheap fares to Latin America, which will tank yields.

Entering MIACCS locks Gol into a high-yielding, undeserved, limited frequency market. It's a basic gold mine guarantee as long as Venezuela remains intent on limiting airline service.

Entering MIABEL allows Gol to connect Miami to a large amount of its network one-stop fom a northernly hub. It might not be going after the highest yielding traffic, but it doesn't need to with its low cost model. With AA and TAM inevitably heading towards ATI, being one of only two non-stop players in Miami-Brazil will likely produce great results.

[Edited 2012-03-05 18:35:59]

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2012-03-05 18:43:25 and read 3309 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 50):
Entering MIACCS locks Gol into a high-yielding, undeserved, limited frequency market. It's a basic gold mine guarantee as long as Venezuela remains intent on limiting airline service.

Well, that is the condition, but the question remains as to whether or not G3 will be able to walk away with any of that high yielding traffic. But, as you said, the limited nature of the Venezuelan route authorities and its underserved size may indicate it is large enough for G3 to generate decent yields.

Still, beyond CCS, G3 flies only to GIG and GRU. Will MIASAO or MIARIO traffic want to fly on a 737 1-stop via CCS, or take a widebody flight on AA or JJ nonstop?

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 50):
Entering MIABEL allows Gol to connect Miami to a large amount of its network one-stop fom a northernly hub.

Which would make much more sense to me, as it would tap into the local MIABEL market which is underserved. If the 737 has the range to fly from a few northernly points in Brasil to Miami, why go by way of CCS?

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: LipeGIG
Posted 2012-03-05 18:47:54 and read 3304 times.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 51):
Still, beyond CCS, G3 flies only to GIG and GRU. Will MIASAO or MIARIO traffic want to fly on a 737 1-stop via CCS, or take a widebody flight on AA or JJ nonstop?

Nowadays this traffic need to go thru a lot of hubs such as PTY, CLT, MCO, IAH, IAD, JFK, EWR, ATL and others. A matter of demand.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2012-03-05 19:08:43 and read 3267 times.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 51):
Still, beyond CCS, G3 flies only to GIG and GRU. Will MIASAO or MIARIO traffic want to fly on a 737 1-stop via CCS, or take a widebody flight on AA or JJ nonstop?

The MIACCS market is so grossly undeserved, that G3 can forget about even needi g to feed it with Brazil traffic, it then becomes an issue of whether MIACCS and CCSGRU/GIG are independently viable for Gol.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2012-03-06 06:11:33 and read 3077 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 53):
it then becomes an issue of whether MIACCS and CCSGRU/GIG are independently viable for Gol.

That's probably what would happen, each segment will be viable on its own.

Topic: RE: GOL To Start Flying To MIA
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2012-03-06 08:17:55 and read 2984 times.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 52):
Nowadays this traffic need to go thru a lot of hubs such as PTY, CLT, MCO, IAH, IAD, JFK, EWR, ATL and others. A matter of demand.
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 53):
The MIACCS market is so grossly undeserved, that G3 can forget about even needi g to feed it with Brazil traffic, it then becomes an issue of whether MIACCS and CCSGRU/GIG are independently viable for Gol.

Understandable, I can see why the demand levels for MIA-SAO/RIO are high enough, and nonstop links are limited enough, for there to be spillover to to OALs.

But, you have to bear in mind you have TONS of legacy carriers representing all three major alliances that can funnel traffic between Miami and these cities, as well as to secondary cities in Brasil.

While I have no doubts that GOL can capture some of the traffic between MIA and these points, whether it be CCS, Rio, Sao, or elsewhere in Brasil, I'm more curious to know what TYPE of traffic Gol is seeking to attract and go after. To me, that question remains largely unanswered.

Unless I am just reading between the lines here, it doesn't appear to me that any of you have been able to clarify that in your posts. IYou may not know the answer, heck, Gol may not even know the answer!! But, if you could shed some light on that, I'd like to know....

thx


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