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Topic: Delta Connection/United Express Rumor
Username: dtwpilot225
Posted 2012-03-07 05:44:47 and read 9779 times.

I am hearing something may go on between Skywest and Pinnacle. I think someone leaked something they shouldn't have or it wa's leaked purposely to scare everyone. Something involving the sale of aircraft from pinnacle to skywest or the purchase of pinnacle outright. I hate spreading rumors but its buzzing around both airlines so instead lets discuss the possibilities of this and the financial situation of pinnacle. Pinnacle has until April 2 to finalize a deal with United but their agreement for their crj900's with Delta has been tight lipped. Skywest has lost some money as well but they have a lot more of it than pinnacle does.

Topic: RE: Delta Connection/United Express Rumor
Username: PSU.DTW.SCE
Posted 2012-03-07 07:13:29 and read 9510 times.

The Pinnacle rumor most likely involves UA, in particularly the PMCO flying that 9E did under Colgan at EWR and IAH. Supposedly involving the Q400s?

This does not appear to involve any of the DL Connection air service agreements. Plus, 9E only owns the 16 original CR9s, the rest of the former Mesaba PMNW CR9s and the PMNW CRJ-200 fleets are all under lease by DL.

Topic: RE: Delta Connection/United Express Rumor
Username: bhmdiversion
Posted 2012-03-07 07:28:09 and read 9411 times.

This rumor has gone around for months. SkyWest doesn't want to add the BS of 9E into OO. They have enough issues to deal with already.

Topic: RE: Delta Connection/United Express Rumor
Username: aviationbuff08
Posted 2012-03-07 10:20:07 and read 8999 times.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 1):
This does not appear to involve any of the DL Connection air service agreements. Plus, 9E only owns the 16 original CR9s, the rest of the former Mesaba PMNW CR9s and the PMNW CRJ-200 fleets are all under lease by DL.

Maybe this is what Skywest is attempting to get their hands on and add them to ASA/ExpressJet for more aircraft for the ATL hub.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 1):
The Pinnacle rumor most likely involves UA, in particularly the PMCO flying that 9E did under Colgan at EWR and IAH. Supposedly involving the Q400s?

Most likely closer to the truth. But if we can't speculate on here where is the fun?

I am still placing bet on when Skywest is going to purchase American Eagle from AMR so they can finish their goal of becoming the Super Regional Airline of the US.   

Topic: RE: Delta Connection/United Express Rumor
Username: doug_Or
Posted 2012-03-07 10:56:42 and read 8806 times.

I'm pretty sure Chip&co down in SGU have just about enough of the whole merger thing. ASA was a little rougher than expected and the whole Express Jet thing has given them a bad hangover. Don't expect SkyWest Inc. to grow more through mergers excepting an "offer they they can't refuse".

Topic: RE: Delta Connection/United Express Rumor
Username: apodino
Posted 2012-03-07 11:03:57 and read 8781 times.

I agree that any rumor involving the two would probably involve the Q400 flying. If OO got their hands on the Q400s, then you have a replacement for the 120s and a plane that can operate into some of those places that OO can not operate the CRJ (IYK being one). Also Pinnacle is probably in a position where they will have to jetison some of those birds because of the UA contract being unfavorable to Pinnacle.

Any other rumors are probably not true. Skywest is now losing money due partly to the Expressjet purchase, but also because of their Pilot costs at Skywest getting out of control due to pilots being more senior. They really are not in a position to acquire anyone else. Pinnacle isn't even a discussion because this would involve one airline losing money buying one that is on the verge of bankruptcy. Not to mention this would actually drive up costs for the majors and put them in a difficult position as well. Trying to merge Eagle into Expressjet (Which is what would happen if Skywest bought them due to ALPA), would create all sorts of issues, and I also believe this would hurt Skywest in the long run as well. Eagle has some of the same issues that doomed Comair.

Here is the problem right now....consolidation at the regionals has driven costs up because of issues with senior crews, the planes are still junk, and the issues with constant schedule changes and shifting and closing domiciles. Very few regionals are making money anymore. Any mergers or acquisitions would just fuel the fire, and would probably be frowned upon by the Majors, who know it will drive up their costs as well. The fact that nutjobs like Johnny O are willing to take contracts at a loss just to get flying shows you how bad a shape this industry is in. The other thing that is going to hurt the regionals is existing pilot contract negotiations at the Majors. UA pilots want the CO scope in the new contact and this is priority number one. AA pilots are likely going to have scope relaxation imposed on them by a bankruptcy judge, but the problem then is, where does AA turn to for more flying? Is anyone in a financial position to bid on new flying while they are losing money? When USAPA solves their problems (If ever), are they going to push for tougher scope? DL is arguably in the best position of the Majors, but you know that the Pilots there will use that to get tougher scope as well. It will be interesting to watch.

Topic: RE: Delta Connection/United Express Rumor
Username: as739x
Posted 2012-03-07 12:26:16 and read 8509 times.

Quoting apodino (Reply 5):

SkyWest as well with other feeders have been in talks with UAL over Q flying. But on contrary, the Q is not a great replacement for the -120. There are a few markets from SFO that the Q is just to much plane. Also, SFO being the hub with the majority of EMB flying, there are few gates to fit the Q's into. And with gate space at a premium it is a factor.


However, I do agree with you that OO is in no place to purchase another carrier nor have we heard the rumors within the company.

Topic: RE: Delta Connection/United Express Rumor
Username: aviationbuff08
Posted 2012-03-07 12:41:04 and read 8449 times.

Quoting apodino (Reply 5):
Here is the problem right now....consolidation at the regionals has driven costs up because of issues with senior crews, the planes are still junk, and the issues with constant schedule changes and shifting and closing domiciles. Very few regionals are making money anymore. Any mergers or acquisitions would just fuel the fire, and would probably be frowned upon by the Majors, who know it will drive up their costs as well. The fact that nutjobs like Johnny O are willing to take contracts at a loss just to get flying shows you how bad a shape this industry is in. The other thing that is going to hurt the regionals is existing pilot contract negotiations at the Majors. UA pilots want the CO scope in the new contact and this is priority number one. AA pilots are likely going to have scope relaxation imposed on them by a bankruptcy judge, but the problem then is, where does AA turn to for more flying? Is anyone in a financial position to bid on new flying while they are losing money? When USAPA solves their problems (If ever), are they going to push for tougher scope? DL is arguably in the best position of the Majors, but you know that the Pilots there will use that to get tougher scope as well. It will be interesting to watch.

One of the first things i noticed with the UA/CO merger was how they had completely different scope clauses in their respected contracts. I still waiting to see how the dust settles with this issue.

I also noticed that when DL last hired pilots, i believe the number was around 300. IIRC most that were hired were ex-military pilots and very little from the DCI feeder carriers that I noticed. Does anyone know the breakdown of where the pilots DL hired last came from?

Another interesting question I have which applies to all major airlines is, with scope (outsourcing) not an issue which would provide the most ROI.

option 1. A mainline carrier buying 100 CSeries airplanes and flying them in house as mainline?

option 2. Allowing a Regional airline to operate more CRJ700/900 and even some limited numbers of CSeries airplanes

Again this is for all Major airlines, DL/UA/AA/US that currently has Regional partners flying under their brand. Also ignoring the scope clauses as I know option 2 clearly violates every one the current scope clauses.

Topic: RE: Delta Connection/United Express Rumor
Username: ual777
Posted 2012-03-07 21:50:57 and read 4896 times.

Quoting aviationbuff08 (Reply 7):

Another interesting question I have which applies to all major airlines is, with scope (outsourcing) not an issue which would provide the most ROI.

option 1. A mainline carrier buying 100 CSeries airplanes and flying them in house as mainline?

option 2. Allowing a Regional airline to operate more CRJ700/900 and even some limited numbers of CSeries airplanes

Again this is for all Major airlines, DL/UA/AA/US that currently has Regional partners flying under their brand. Also ignoring the scope clauses as I know option 2 clearly violates every one the current scope clauses.

Option 2 ain't gonna happen.

Topic: RE: Delta Connection/United Express Rumor
Username: ual777
Posted 2012-03-07 22:17:48 and read 4783 times.

Quoting aviationbuff08 (Reply 7):

I also noticed that when DL last hired pilots, i believe the number was around 300. IIRC most that were hired were ex-military pilots and very little from the DCI feeder carriers that I noticed. Does anyone know the breakdown of where the pilots DL hired last came from?

There were a bunch hired from ASA. DL hired a lot of civilian pilots.


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