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Topic: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: SXDFC
Posted 2012-03-05 18:18:08 and read 20259 times.

Hello All:

Sorry If this is mentioned elsewhere, but I'd like to know when or if Boeing started building the first AA 777-300ER yet, and what the delivery date is.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: qqflyboy
Posted 2012-03-05 18:28:01 and read 20226 times.

First delivery isn't scheduled until November. What's the build time of a 77W?

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: bpat777
Posted 2012-03-05 20:23:39 and read 19706 times.

That's going to be one clean and mean shiny bird. I can't wait to see it flying around.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: questions
Posted 2012-03-05 20:40:22 and read 19619 times.

With that 3-5-3, 31" seat pitch, 4 lav economy cabin it will be anything but a "LuxuryLiner."

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: Airxliban
Posted 2012-03-05 20:46:29 and read 19568 times.

Quoting questions (Reply 3):
With that 3-5-3, 31" seat pitch, 4 lav economy cabin it will be anything but a "LuxuryLiner."

Give me a break. No airline in the world has 3-5-3 on a 777. It'll be 3-4-3 just like EK and others.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: ripcordd
Posted 2012-03-05 20:50:13 and read 19543 times.

Nothing offical is out of the cabin lay outs.....Just another hater

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: gemuser
Posted 2012-03-05 20:50:24 and read 19546 times.

Quoting Airxliban (Reply 4):
Give me a break. No airline in the world has 3-5-3 on a 777. It'll be 3-4-3 just like EK and others.

Ah, another airlines B77W to avoid!

Gemuser

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: jayeshrulz
Posted 2012-03-05 21:30:54 and read 19330 times.

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 5):
Nothing offical is out of the cabin lay outs.....Just another hater

It has been, check their facebook page. Hate is a very harsh word to use my friend..
Its 3-4-3 on their Y. And its not even 32-34 inches like EK where you might get a little relief.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: ripcordd
Posted 2012-03-05 21:45:55 and read 19270 times.

Again There is nothing Offical From AA on FB or anywhere else there is a lot speculation from FB posts that is it..Again Nothing Offical so until you can see the seat map on AA.com you should old off comments.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: qf002
Posted 2012-03-05 22:10:55 and read 19169 times.

Quoting gemuser (Reply 6):
Ah, another airlines B77W to avoid!

In my experience, AA is an airline to avoid anyway   

Quoting jayeshrulz (Reply 7):
It has been, check their facebook page.

What I saw on their fb page was 2-5-2... Just as easily possible...

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2012-03-05 22:29:35 and read 19100 times.

Quoting jayeshrulz (Reply 7):
Its 3-4-3 on their Y.

With the AA/BA revenue-sharing joint venture on the Atlantic and similar AA/JL joint venture on the Pacific, it seems strange that AA wouldn't want to align their product with BA and JL which are both 3-3-3 on 777s (excluding JL's high-density aircraft used on domestic routes).

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2012-03-05 22:58:32 and read 18999 times.

Quoting jayeshrulz (Reply 7):
Quoting ripcordd (Reply 5):
Nothing offical is out of the cabin lay outs.....Just another hater

It has been, check their facebook page. Hate is a very harsh word to use my friend..
Its 3-4-3 on their Y. And its not even 32-34 inches like EK where you might get a little relief.

Which was never supposed to be posted in the first place - and AA temporarily took the pictures down, but the damage had already been done.

While 3-4-3 is very possible, no cofiguration has been settled upon. About the only thing guaranteed is that F will have eight seats.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: AA767400
Posted 2012-03-05 23:08:20 and read 18955 times.

Quoting questions (Reply 3):
With that 3-5-3, 31" seat pitch, 4 lav economy cabin it will be anything but a "LuxuryLiner."
Quoting jayeshrulz (Reply 7):
It has been, check their facebook page. Hate is a very harsh word to use my friend..
Its 3-4-3 on their Y. And its not even 32-34 inches like EK where you might get a little relief.

There's nothing ANYWHERE that officially states any of these statements. We might see 3-4-3, but that's not even concrete. And where did you get that they'll have 4 lavs?

Sometimes I wonder...  

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: totesen
Posted 2012-03-05 23:41:23 and read 18822 times.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 9):
In my experience, AA is an airline to avoid anyway   

Agreed haha. flying AA Has been way worse than any other experience on any US carrier, and needless to say that us carriers are quite bad in their service

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: ghifty
Posted 2012-03-06 01:04:11 and read 18397 times.

Haven't heard anything. I'm still admiring the pictures AA posted. The F and C cabins look pretty nice. Good tones and trim looks decent for a 3*. The bar looks teeny, but it's a nudge in the right direction. As far as the 3x4x3 Y, oh well... it's not like it's unheard of... and it might not even be config'd that way.

Can't wait to see this super-long shiny tube take off!

Quoting questions (Reply 3):
"LuxuryLiner."

You're right, it won't be because for about a decade no American plane has carried the "LuxuryLiner" title.   

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: ual777uk
Posted 2012-03-06 02:55:31 and read 17601 times.

Surely they will not go 10 across in Y??!! They should be consistant with what BA at least have onver the pond and lets not forget those two countries have a few larger people can I say politely. I am sure it will be 3-3-3 when details are realeased. I Hope!   

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: cedarjet
Posted 2012-03-06 05:18:35 and read 16359 times.

It will be 2-5-2, no question of it.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
it seems strange that AA wouldn't want to align their product with BA and JL which are both 3-3-3

No, it seems strange that AA wouldn't want to align their product with the 47 Boeing 777s they already have! Anyway it's not in question. 2-5-2 is what it'll be.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: gdg9
Posted 2012-03-06 05:22:50 and read 16300 times.

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 8):
Again There is nothing Offical From AA on FB or anywhere else there is a lot speculation from FB posts that is it..Again Nothing Offical so until you can see the seat map on AA.com you should old off comments.
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
While 3-4-3 is very possible, no cofiguration has been settled upon. About the only thing guaranteed is that F will have eight seats.
Quoting ual777uk (Reply 15):
Surely they will not go 10 across in Y??!! They should be consistant with what BA at least have onver the pond and lets not forget those two countries have a few larger people can I say politely. I am sure it will be 3-3-3 when details are realeased


I find it somewhat hard to believe AA would go 3-3-3 on 772s but 3-4-3 on the new 'flagship' 773s. I suppose we will see what happens, but for an airline that just brought back its 'more room in coach' program, stuffing 3-4-3 on the 777s seems a stretch.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: cmf
Posted 2012-03-06 05:38:44 and read 16133 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
While 3-4-3 is very possible, no cofiguration has been settled upon

With deliveries scheduled this year shouldn't orders for seats have been placed by now?

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: travelavnut
Posted 2012-03-06 05:42:37 and read 16081 times.

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 17):
I find it somewhat hard to believe AA would go 3-3-3 on 772s but 3-4-3 on the new 'flagship' 773s.

Why? KL has (unfortunatly) done exactly that...

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: travelavnut
Posted 2012-03-06 05:43:19 and read 16082 times.

Quoting bpat777 (Reply 2):
That's going to be one clean and mean shiny bird. I can't wait to see it flying around.

Indeed!!!   Airliner porn in my book

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: jayeshrulz
Posted 2012-03-06 06:32:04 and read 15473 times.

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 12):
There's nothing ANYWHERE that officially states any of these statements. We might see 3-4-3, but that's not even concrete. And where did you get that they'll have 4 lavs?
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
Which was never supposed to be posted in the first place - and AA temporarily took the pictures down, but the damage had already been done.

While 3-4-3 is very possible, no cofiguration has been settled upon. About the only thing guaranteed is that F will have eight seats.
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
With the AA/BA revenue-sharing joint venture on the Atlantic and similar AA/JL joint venture on the Pacific, it seems strange that AA wouldn't want to align their product with BA and JL which are both 3-3-3 on 777s (excluding JL's high-density aircraft used on domestic routes).

Well, from what they had posted in FB, it was 3-4-3. I dint know they had taken down. But can assure that that one could clearly see 3-4-3.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: Polot
Posted 2012-03-06 06:39:11 and read 15395 times.

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 17):
I find it somewhat hard to believe AA would go 3-3-3 on 772s but 3-4-3 on the new 'flagship' 773s. I suppose we will see what happens, but for an airline that just brought back its 'more room in coach' program, stuffing 3-4-3 on the 777s seems a stretch.

AA is just introducing an premium economy section with extra leg room a la UA's Economy Plus or DL's Economy Comfort. It is not throughout coach as MRTC was and has no bearing on what the comfort (or lack thereof) of AA's economy class will be, other than making sure it is less comfortable.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: MAV88
Posted 2012-03-06 06:44:29 and read 15317 times.

Aside from the seat configuration talk, where will AA be deploying these birds?

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: superjeff
Posted 2012-03-06 06:57:12 and read 15152 times.

Quoting MAV88 (Reply 23):

Initial routes are JFK-LHR and JFK-SAO

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: PRAirbus
Posted 2012-03-06 06:58:52 and read 15664 times.

DFW-GRU and DFW-LHR are supposed to be AA's first B773ER's routes.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-03-06 07:03:53 and read 15592 times.

Quoting superjeff (Reply 24):
Initial routes are JFK-LHR and JFK-SAO

No. DFW-GRU is the first route.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2012-03-06 07:17:54 and read 15832 times.

Quoting cmf (Reply 18):

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
While 3-4-3 is very possible, no cofiguration has been settled upon

With deliveries scheduled this year shouldn't orders for seats have been placed by now?


Don’t repeat earlier generations’ mistakes. Learn history to make the future better.

With deliveries set this year, yes the configuration has been established so well informed insiders know, however I believe he is implying only those involved in the configuration know. Outside AA management, Boeing and the seat manufacturer I do not think it has been officially published.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: sxf24
Posted 2012-03-06 07:36:27 and read 15501 times.

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 8):
Again There is nothing Offical From AA on FB or anywhere else there is a lot speculation from FB posts that is it..Again Nothing Offical so until you can see the seat map on AA.com you should old off comments.
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
While 3-4-3 is very possible, no cofiguration has been settled upon. About the only thing guaranteed is that F will have eight seats.
Quoting cmf (Reply 18):
With deliveries scheduled this year shouldn't orders for seats have been placed by now?

The seats have certainly been ordered and the configuration is set, otherwise the plane will not be delivered in November (or delivered without seats).

People can deny the rumors, but they are true. I doubt the cross section in the Main Cabin will ever be publicly confirmed by AA prior to delivery.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: gulfstream650
Posted 2012-03-06 07:36:36 and read 15488 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 26):

Correct. Was originally LHR but will now be GRU - sadly.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-03-06 07:55:38 and read 15191 times.

Quoting sxf24 (Reply 28):
People can deny the rumors, but they are true.

And you know this how?

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: divemaster08
Posted 2012-03-06 08:04:47 and read 15170 times.

Quoting jayeshrulz (Reply 21):
Well, from what they had posted in FB, it was 3-4-3. I dint know they had taken down. But can assure that that one could clearly see 3-4-3.


If this is the photo your talking about then I don't see how this assumption has come about.
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3472/42078310150493610516078.jpg[/URL]

Yes it shows at least 4 seats in the middle, but AA have always been a 2-5-2 airline from their DC10s-MD11s and 777s.

I cannot see how this photo shows the full extent of the layout. It doesnt. It speculates that there will be at least 4 seats in the middle maybe 5.

Again though this is an artists rendition for the seat. and the layout may be wrong from his own fault.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: ckfred
Posted 2012-03-06 08:08:25 and read 14985 times.

Quoting totesen (Reply 13):
Agreed haha. flying AA Has been way worse than any other experience on any US carrier, and needless to say that us carriers are quite bad in their service

Everyone person has his or her least favorite airline, although I know a fair number of people who hate flying US. For me, it's UA. I had such a bad experience in 1996 that I haven't flown since.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: rotating14
Posted 2012-03-06 09:47:27 and read 13714 times.

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 1):

Start to finish its about 83 days.

http://www.airlinereporter.com/2012/...oes-it-take-to-build-a-boeing-777/

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: AAIL86
Posted 2012-03-06 10:00:26 and read 13507 times.

Quoting sxf24 (Reply 28):
The seats have certainly been ordered and the configuration is set, otherwise the plane will not be delivered in November (or delivered without seats).

People can deny the rumors, but they are true. I doubt the cross section in the Main Cabin will ever be publicly confirmed by AA prior to delivery.

If you have proof, produce the goods! The pictures themselves do not prove anything... as they are of a mock up at the manufacturer.... could be 3-4-3, 2-5-2, or for all we know even 3-4-2.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: 777STL
Posted 2012-03-06 10:21:57 and read 13203 times.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 16):
It will be 2-5-2, no question of it.

You have no more idea that it'll be 2-5-2 than those who claim it'll be 3-4-3.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 16):
No, it seems strange that AA wouldn't want to align their product with the 47 Boeing 777s they already have! Anyway it's not in question. 2-5-2 is what it'll be.

Which really means nothing, who's to say the existing 772s won't be reconfigured to match what the 77W is delivered with? There's also a precedent for this, the new tranche of 738s that were delivered beginning several years ago had a different configuration than the existing 738s. The existing 738s were then brought up to the new standard. That being said, I think it would be incredibly ignorant to assume the the configuration of the 77Ws WON'T be different, just for the sole purpose of matching the 772s.

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 34):
If you have proof, produce the goods!

And risk his job? Yeah, no, you don't understand how these things work.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-03-06 10:30:26 and read 13119 times.

Quoting 777STL (Reply 35):
And risk his job? Yeah, no, you don't understand how these things work.

Youre telling a guy who spent over a decade at AA that he doesnt understand? Yeah right.  

This stuff isnt worth arguing over. The truth is that no one on here has any idea what it will be. Lets just wait for it to reveal itself. Saying you can tell from the picture is stupid when you cant see the whole cabin.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2012-03-06 10:31:51 and read 13015 times.

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 34):
he pictures themselves do not prove anything... as they are of a mock up at the manufacturer.... could be 3-4-3, 2-5-2, or for all we know even 3-4-2.

However the aisle appears very narrow, exactly like a 10-abreast 777. AA wouldn't want even a mockup photo to make the cabin appear worse than it's going to if they're really planning on 9-abreast.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: ATL
Posted 2012-03-06 10:32:52 and read 13016 times.

Quoting divemaster08 (Reply 31):

Dude, look at the second middle row from the front of the aircraft/picture. Now, look in between the 3rd and 4th seat from the right of the third middle row, and you'll see that the seat visible is off sync with the other 4 from the second row, thus implying that it's not part of the middle row (as a 5th seat), if a 5th seat was there, you would see a seat in between those two seats that is much better aligned with its row. That's a 4 seat center model, end of story. I don't know about the official layouts, but that's what the picture says.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: ripcordd
Posted 2012-03-06 10:54:12 and read 12679 times.

The rear of the 777 is 2-4-2 keep that in mind

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: GSPSPOT
Posted 2012-03-06 11:03:42 and read 12579 times.

FWIW, I'd prefer there to be at least one side in Economy with "2" seating. I usually travel with my significant other, and that's how I prefer to travel in Economy or any other class for that matter. We can always plan our travels in such a way as to avoid the "4" or "5" middle section!

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: usxguy
Posted 2012-03-06 11:15:08 and read 12391 times.

And from a marketing perspective, if AA was going with its standard 777 configuration, they would have said so by now. AA would have made a statement outlining the width of the seats, seat pitch, and overall Y seat layout.

The fact they have redone the above photo and been silent just proves that they are hiding the 3 x 4 x 3 configuration.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: SonomaFlyer
Posted 2012-03-06 11:25:28 and read 12292 times.

Bet cash that it will be 3-4-3. Although AA would never come out and say it, they are effectively saying, "if you want more room, upgrade or fly a different airline."

Economy is just that, folks who want to get from A to B as cheaply as possible. At least you'll have IFE and power ports for the toys you want to bring on board for your long flights.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: klkla
Posted 2012-03-06 13:14:07 and read 10817 times.

Quoting ATL (Reply 38):
Dude, look at the second middle row from the front of the aircraft/picture. Now, look in between the 3rd and 4th seat from the right of the third middle row, and you'll see that the seat visible is off sync with the other 4 from the second row, thus implying that it's not part of the middle row (as a 5th seat), if a 5th seat was there, you would see a seat in between those two seats that is much better aligned with its row.

I have no idea whether it will be 3-4-3 or not but from the picture I would say 2-5-2. If you look at the second row of seats at the very top left hand corner you can see the 5th remote control unit that would be for the 5th seat in that row.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: YULWinterSkies
Posted 2012-03-06 13:22:47 and read 10720 times.

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 15):
Surely they will not go 10 across in Y??!! They should be consistant with what BA at least have onver the pond and lets not forget those two countries have a few larger people can I say politely. I am sure it will be 3-3-3 when details are realeased. I Hope!

"Product consistency" did not stop AF, KL, and soon AZ to go 3-4-3 on their 777s and DL to stick to 3-3-3 on theirs so far (although they do not seem to use their 777s across the Atlantic).

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 16):
No, it seems strange that AA wouldn't want to align their product with the 47 Boeing 777s they already have! Anyway it's not in question. 2-5-2 is what it'll be.

DL switched from 2-5-2 a long time ago, and UA is in the process of doing it (thankfully for 3-3-3 and not 3-4-3), so, if anything, it's the 2-5-2 on the 772 that will go, not the 77W that will have the 2-5-2.
Leaks on Facebook were calling for 3-4-3 anyway.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 37):
However the aisle appears very narrow, exactly like a 10-abreast 777.

Very true. However, nothing can be said about the 4 vs 5 middle seats based on that sole picture.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: ripcordd
Posted 2012-03-06 13:40:10 and read 10472 times.

usax they have not stated what the 319/321/787 will seat yet either.....again when they post you can say what it will be. Maybe they will go 10 across in Y and 9 across in Y+ but time will tell

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: ATL
Posted 2012-03-06 14:53:26 and read 9599 times.

Quoting klkla (Reply 46):

Right. But that seat is not aligned with the the other 4 of the second row properly. Make a mental line across the second row and you'll see that this "5th" seat is off. 2-4-2 / 3-4-3 I say.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: usxguy
Posted 2012-03-06 16:08:07 and read 8758 times.

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 48):
usax they have not stated what the 319/321/787 will seat yet either.....again when they post you can say what it will be. Maybe they will go 10 across in Y and 9 across in Y+ but time will tell

they also haven't produced images of these planes interiors and THEN completely redo them.

So why, oh why, would an airline take the photo (above) and re-do it to hide the 4th seat?

I'll bet ya $20 that AA is not ready to deal with the brunt of complaints over the 3 x 4 x 3 configuration, so they redid the picture to "hide" the 4th seat.

And everything I know (and people at AA) are all pointing to the 3 x 4 x 3 configuration, that will leave one open question - shouldn't they change their name? cause I don't know how many Americans will actually be able to fit in that tight seat!

If I wanted to fly in a seat like the CRJ, then I'd fly in a CRJ. But I book away from those nasty lil airplanes. ERJ/EMB 170 over CRJ/CR7/CR9 any day of the week.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2012-03-06 16:35:31 and read 8517 times.

Quoting usxguy (Reply 50):
And everything I know (and people at AA) are all pointing to the 3 x 4 x 3 configuration, that will leave one open question - shouldn't they change their name? cause I don't know how many Americans will actually be able to fit in that tight seat!

Get used to it. Fuel is getting more expensive and people aren't willing to pay more to fly. It's only a matter of time before 3x4x3 becomes the norm among all airlines, regardless of whether AA decides to go for such a configuration on the 77W.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: DL_Mech
Posted 2012-03-06 16:47:26 and read 8316 times.

Look how skinny those armrests are.......I say 3-4-3.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: LDVAviation
Posted 2012-03-06 17:38:42 and read 7886 times.

Quoting usxguy (Reply 50):
And everything I know (and people at AA) are all pointing to the 3 x 4 x 3 configuration, that will leave one open question - shouldn't they change their name? cause I don't know how many Americans will actually be able to fit in that tight seat!

Two solutions to the problem:

1) Americans can lose weight.

2) Americans can purchase a Business Class Seat.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: einsteinboricua
Posted 2012-03-06 17:59:41 and read 7637 times.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 53):
Two solutions to the problem:

1) Americans can lose weight.

2) Americans can purchase a Business Class Seat.

Or:
3. Avoid the airline altogether.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: LDVAviation
Posted 2012-03-06 18:16:10 and read 7417 times.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 54):
Or:
3. Avoid the airline altogether.

So be it. But consumers who are price-sensitive rarely have that choice (in the absolute).

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: AAIL86
Posted 2012-03-06 18:43:45 and read 7296 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 51):
Get used to it. Fuel is getting more expensive and people aren't willing to pay more to fly. It's only a matter of time before 3x4x3 becomes the norm among all airlines, regardless of whether AA decides to go for such a configuration on the 77W.

Given that this is true- shouldn't the model be: Bare-bones, cramped Y with minimal fuss for absolute lowest fare ; comfortable premium economy with more features and modest up-charge (say, 20-40% depending on advance purchase) and course the obligatory J and perhaps F?

Personally I think AA is making another mistake with the main cabin extra approach. They could steal a march on their US competitors by launching a true W for long-haul aircraft- upgraded seats- nicer dining and IFE -etc and have a fairly comparable setup with BA/QF/CX. Instead, they slavishly copy UA and DL's product....

I'll tell you why, though- AA still hasn't forgotten the More Room fiasco and doesn't want to introduce anything too exciting for fear it will blow up in their faces again.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 54):
Or:
3. Avoid the airline altogether.

People pay to fly NK.... they also pay to fly AA763s, UA 747s, and ratty AZ 763s. Do you really think they'll punish AA for their newest aircraft?

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: questions
Posted 2012-03-06 20:31:43 and read 7076 times.

What are the cabin widths of the 747, 777, 787, 330/340?

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: ual777uk
Posted 2012-03-07 03:33:25 and read 6773 times.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 55):
So be it. But consumers who are price-sensitive rarely have that choice

On routes where AA will fly the 77W they probably will have a choice of another carrier at similar prices unless AA go the route of bucket shop.

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 56):
People pay to fly NK.... they also pay to fly AA763s, UA 747s, and ratty AZ 763s. Do you really think they'll punish AA for their newest aircraft?

Whats that got to do with it? NK are cramped but dont fly long haul where AAs 77W will. For more than say 7 hours on NK I get you but do they have a flight that long?
As for AA763, UA747 and AZ763 again not sure where you are going with that. They dont have an extra seat in Y that makes long haul even worse that it might already be so you have lost me there i am afraid. This thread is about seat width nothing more.
Being a new aircraft is irrelevant IMHO.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: qf002
Posted 2012-03-07 04:36:58 and read 6632 times.

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 58):
NK are cramped but dont fly long haul where AAs 77W will.

I didn't realise that passengers were leaving EK, EY, AF, KL, NZ etc in droves. Aren't some of these among the most successful and strongest airlines at the moment, in terms of passenger numbers and profits?

I don't advocate for 10 abreast in the 777, I just get sick of the argument that passengers will up and go. It simply does not work like that.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: rwsea
Posted 2012-03-07 05:27:28 and read 6527 times.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 60):
I didn't realise that passengers were leaving EK, EY, AF, KL, NZ etc in droves. Aren't some of these among the most successful and strongest airlines at the moment, in terms of passenger numbers and profits?

AF has a lot bigger problems than 10-abreast on the 773, but it is certainly NOT amongst the most successful and strongest airlines at the moment. KL is believed to be doing better, but gets dragged down with the rest of AF.

Personally I will never set foot an an AF 777 or KL 773 in Coach, and I know many other FlyingBlue Platinum members who agree with me.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: mogandoCI
Posted 2012-03-07 06:01:03 and read 6472 times.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 60):
I didn't realise that passengers were leaving EK, EY, AF, KL, NZ etc in droves. Aren't some of these among the most successful and strongest airlines at the moment, in terms of passenger numbers and profits?

I don't advocate for 10 abreast in the 777, I just get sick of the argument that passengers will up and go. It simply does not work like that.

That 10-Y was distinctly painful on my 7 hour quick hop from JFK to CDG... can't imagine doing it for 13+ hours.

That experience has alone has reminded me to actively above 10Y whenever a reasonably priced alternative is possible. Airlines who do that either have an incentive to weaken Y in order to promote Y+ (NZ), or care more about lowering CASM with bottom feeders than actually providing good service (EK).

You have listed what? 5 or 6 airlines that use 10Y? Compare that to all the other 777 operators, I think it's clear where the market is voting.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-03-07 07:31:12 and read 6278 times.

Isnt all this 10-Y talk a bit premature? There have been no confirmations of seating configuration, yet this board is blowing up with the rumors.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: usxguy
Posted 2012-03-07 08:38:41 and read 6193 times.

... because some of us know people at AA who *do know*.... however its too late. I am part of the crowd that will actively book away from AA's 777.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: aacun
Posted 2012-03-07 08:55:51 and read 6154 times.

Very interesting to hear that people will stay away from booking an AA 777 beacuse of a 3 4 3 configuration. People, this is reality. Airlines cannot support a business giving customers more without getting more from them. I have been with AA for over 25 years, and it is amazing that a ticket in a lot of cases, cost less now that when I started flying. How can you guys expect for a company to stay in business when everything around us cost more and more every day. I love to hear people complaint about airline ticket prices. If you want to pay 590 dollars return (and I have seen the ads in Montevideo) to go to the United States, and the ability to pay thru installments, then youre going to have to compromise somewhere. If you are willing to pay a little more, then you get to sit in a more comfortable coach seat or perhaps in a Premium cabin.
The choices are there, but reality is reality. And just wait and see. If AA goes 3 4 3 in coach on the 777 and can keep prices in check with the competiton, even if it means a 20 or 30 dollar difference........... Passengers will book it. or just ask Spirit passengers. Its all about $$$$$$$$$

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: 777STL
Posted 2012-03-07 09:55:17 and read 5983 times.

Quoting aacun (Reply 66):
The choices are there, but reality is reality. And just wait and see. If AA goes 3 4 3 in coach on the 777 and can keep prices in check with the competiton, even if it means a 20 or 30 dollar difference........... Passengers will book it. or just ask Spirit passengers. Its all about $$$$$$$$$

Unfortunately, I agree with you, and that's why AA and other airlines continue this race to the bottom. Most people either don't know enough to avoid a 3-4-3 configuration, or, they're price conscious to the point where they won't care. It's all about the cheapest price that pops up on Expedia or Travelocity. Anyone who flies frequently and/or on someone else's dime will either be flying premium class, or have the elite status to upgrade to Y+.

However, as a non-elite flier that prefers AA, I will actively avoid the 3-4-3 configured birds should AA bring them to fruition. UA, here I come....

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: usxguy
Posted 2012-03-07 10:12:31 and read 5928 times.

... but the fact is some of us DO notice and DO pay more. I'm paying for first class on Alaska Airlines fairly soon because its a longer flight and the difference between coach and first is small enough that it is worthwhile for me. When I fly to Hawai'i, I have a choice between a $350 one way seat in Coach or grab First Class for about $500-$600 each way. More than likely I'll be up front. (and no status on AS, btw). My trip to Panama in August will be based on overall comfort, not loyalty to any particular brand. I will even book away from UA unless I know, for a fact, that the plane doing IAH-PTY will have Economy Plus - I'd rather fly DL via ATL and end up with more legroom in their section.

When United came out with Economy Plus, I moved *all* of my business over and became a Premier Exec in no time, and pretty soon joined the Red Carpet Club and climbed the ranks.

My trip to Dubai on EK was in business both ways (no way in hell I'd be stuck in coach that long)

This is going to be an interesting plane for AA as its definitely a plane for the 99% - cause the top 1% will be able to afford business/first and the rest will be squeezed into RJ-sized seats in the back. I mention this because, unlike Alaska, the fare polarity between F/C/Y is HUGE....

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2012-03-07 10:18:46 and read 5921 times.

Quoting usxguy (Reply 71):

This is going to be an interesting plane for AA as its definitely a plane for the 99% - cause the top 1% will be able to afford business/first and the rest will be squeezed into RJ-sized seats in the back. I mention this because, unlike Alaska, the fare polarity between F/C/Y is HUGE....

For the 5% that care, there's a new premium economy that is speculated to be at 3-3-3. For the 95% of economy passengers booking on price alone, then there's 3-4-3. That makes sense to me. For the few that will pay more or loyal elites, give them something better.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 62):

You have listed what? 5 or 6 airlines that use 10Y? Compare that to all the other 777 operators, I think it's clear where the market is voting.

Right now for 77W customers, which is the majority of the 777s rolling off the line, it is about a 50-50 split between 9 and 10 abreast.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: mogandoCI
Posted 2012-03-07 11:03:04 and read 5832 times.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 72):
For the 5% that care, there's a new premium economy that is speculated to be at 3-3-3. For the 95% of economy passengers booking on price alone, then there's 3-4-3. That makes sense to me. For the few that will pay more or loyal elites, give them something better.

That's the most uncompetitive premium economy i've heard of : 3-3-3

3-3-3 is industry standard Y and now AA calls it W all of a sudden it's "something better" ??

for the rest of the customers who haven't sold their souls to oneworld status, UA gives them the same 3-3-3 seat and extra legroom for barely above the price of regular coach.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: usxguy
Posted 2012-03-07 11:05:56 and read 5831 times.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 73):
for the rest of the customers who haven't sold their souls to oneworld status, UA gives them the same 3-3-3 seat and extra legroom for barely above the price of regular coach.

And that is the purpose of most of this thread.... AA marketing is doing its best to SPIN this airplane... up front looks marvelous - lets give them credit where its due. However, once you pass that curtain in business, its an entirely different critter.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2012-03-07 11:26:47 and read 5777 times.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 73):

That's the most uncompetitive premium economy i've heard of : 3-3-3

3-3-3 is industry standard Y and now AA calls it W all of a sudden it's "something better" ??

for the rest of the customers who haven't sold their souls to oneworld status, UA gives them the same 3-3-3 seat and extra legroom for barely above the price of regular coach.

It is not premium economy! It is an extra legroom section that will be free for elites.

Quoting usxguy (Reply 74):
And that is the purpose of most of this thread.... AA marketing is doing its best to SPIN this airplane... up front looks marvelous - lets give them credit where its due. However, once you pass that curtain in business, its an entirely different critter.

Seems the purpose of this thread is more about spreading misinformation above anything else.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: mogandoCI
Posted 2012-03-07 11:37:26 and read 5729 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 75):
Seems the purpose of this thread is more about spreading misinformation above anything else.

And you have concrete verified info that it's *not* 3-4-3 ?

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2012-03-07 11:46:27 and read 5740 times.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 76):

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 75):
Seems the purpose of this thread is more about spreading misinformation above anything else.

And you have concrete verified info that it's *not* 3-4-3 ?


The only thing known so far is that it's 8F.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: mogandoCI
Posted 2012-03-07 11:49:06 and read 5740 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 77):
The only thing known so far is that it's 8F.

Actually we also know it's 1-2-1 J, but not everyone is the 1% that affords F/J. We care about Y too.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: LDVAviation
Posted 2012-03-07 12:25:16 and read 5650 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 75):
Seems the purpose of this thread is more about spreading misinformation above anything else.

Believe me, if AA had made the decision to install its current business class product on these planes, or even a true lie-flat without full aisle access, the same people would be complaining about that instead of seats in Y.

But since it so happens that AA trumped everyone, including its critics here, with its first and business class products, the same people have to look for something else to criticize. It is AA after all.

[Edited 2012-03-07 13:21:44]

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: mogandoCI
Posted 2012-03-07 12:38:12 and read 5615 times.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 79):
But since it so happens that AA trumped everyone, including its critics here, with its first and business calls products, the same people have to look for something else to criticize. It is AA after all.

AA's new first is on par with UA, and far behind SQ or EK. AA's new business is the last among the big 3 legacies to be flat bed. That's hardly "trumping."

That's the same school of thought that brags about how great LHR and GRU is, because the rest of the international network is way sub-par.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: AAIL86
Posted 2012-03-07 12:52:48 and read 5558 times.

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 58):
As for AA763, UA747 and AZ763 again not sure where you are going with that. They dont have an extra seat in Y that makes long haul even worse that it might already be so you have lost me there i am afraid. This thread is about seat width nothing more.

Those are all aircraft that most of us would consider to have a sub-par hard product... yet people still pay to fly them all the time....

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 79):
But since it so happens that AA trumped everyone, including its critics here, with its first and business calls products, the same people have to look for something else to criticize. It is AA after all.

Good point.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: LDVAviation
Posted 2012-03-07 13:18:39 and read 5522 times.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 80):
AA's new first is on par with UA, and far behind SQ or EK. AA's new business is the last among the big 3 legacies to be flat bed. That's hardly "trumping."

That's the same school of thought that brags about how great LHR and GRU is, because the rest of the international network is way sub-par.
AA's new first is a true suite, meaning the seat is independent of the shell enclosure, just what one would expect in a true international F product. UA's first seat is more of a business class pod. Indeed, UA's first seat looks more like AA's new business class seat.

From the renderings, it appears that the fit and finish on AA's seat will be much better than UA's, and on par with BA's seat. AA's design eliminates all the clutter along the console/armrests and any sense of compression from the shell. As such, it creates the impression of a high-end piece of furniture. (I especially like how AA took the seat controls out of the armrests and relocated them to a remote control.)

As to AA's business class seat, they may be the last with a true lie-flat, but by waiting they ended up with the best product. The seat is almost identical to Cathay's seat. Cathay's seat is a highly specialized version of the Sicma Cirrus seat. It has more actuators than the basic version of this seat on Delta and US and it is more highly detailed. In modifying the seat for its own use, AA added an actuator for the headrest, making it electronically adjustable as well.

I have sat in the Cathay version of the seat and it trumps UA's seat in almost every way. The Cathay seat offers aisle access at every seat; it offers more privacy, better sight lines, and more storage space; the location of the IFE screen is more discrete; the finishes and overall design make it seem like a piece of furniture.

[Edited 2012-03-07 13:27:14]

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: AABB777
Posted 2012-03-07 13:32:58 and read 5462 times.

Quoting usxguy (Reply 74):
And that is the purpose of most of this thread.... AA marketing is doing its best to SPIN this airplane... up front looks marvelous - lets give them credit where its due. However, once you pass that curtain in business, its an entirely different critter.

Upfront can also be attributed to higher revenue for AA and a higher ATV. Upfront customers - F & J - are also more product-sensitive & brand loyal vs those in the back of the bus who buy mostly on price. Hence why you see many 77W operators going to 10 abreast in Y. It makes economical sense.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: qf002
Posted 2012-03-07 13:53:39 and read 5424 times.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 62):
You have listed what? 5 or 6 airlines that use 10Y? Compare that to all the other 777 operators, I think it's clear where the market is voting.

5-6 airlines, who operate what, 25-30% of all 777's across the world between them? By the time you add in the few others, UU, NH (domestic) etc, you're looking at a pretty hefty proportion of aircraft which are fitted with 10 abreast.

Given that we have lost inches of pitch and width over the past 10-15 years, I think it's clear what the trend is.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: mogandoCI
Posted 2012-03-07 14:34:21 and read 5325 times.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 85):
5-6 airlines, who operate what, 25-30% of all 777's across the world between them? By the time you add in the few others, UU, NH (domestic) etc, you're looking at a pretty hefty proportion of aircraft which are fitted with 10 abreast.

Given that we have lost inches of pitch and width over the past 10-15 years, I think it's clear what the trend is.

And have you noticed EK's service and customer reputation has dropped off a bit?

At least NZ was innovative enough to come up with the 3-seat economy bed concept to compensate for 10Y. And they've more than made up for it by having the widest 2-2-2 premium economy of any airline.

NH is not really comparable here either. A 2 hour domestic hop on a plane filled with skinner Asians compared to 10 hour flights on 3-4-3 on a plane filled with "full bodied" Americans.

If AA charges the same price as UA/DL for less comfort, what's the incentive to fly them ? (UA/DL has miles and status too, so that's not a valid one)

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: ripcordd
Posted 2012-03-07 14:56:20 and read 5319 times.

Well AA just broke out that Y+ in the 777-300 will 3-5-3 and Reg Coach will 3-6-3 and Sub Par coach will be 4-7-4 in all standing room only section. Wait till it is annouced that is something they can change at the last minute. But 99% wont care cause its all about $$. If people cared about more room MRTC would have never gone away and the likes of UA/DL/NW/CO/US all would have had to follow AA but the all mighty $$ won out..

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: LOWS
Posted 2012-03-07 14:58:41 and read 5269 times.

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 87):
Well AA just broke out that Y+ in the 777-300 will 3-5-3 and Reg Coach will 3-6-3 and Sub Par coach will be 4-7-4 in all standing room only section. Wait till it is annouced that is something they can change at the last minute. But 99% wont care cause its all about $$. If people cared about more room MRTC would have never gone away and the likes of UA/DL/NW/CO/US all would have had to follow AA but the all mighty $$ won out..

And just when I was hoping they'd go with those saddle seat things with 20" at 6-6-6 across.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2012-03-07 15:45:12 and read 5201 times.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 86):
If AA charges the same price as UA/DL for less comfort, what's the incentive to fly them ? (UA/DL has miles and status too, so that's not a valid one)

For one, a superior mileage redemption and elite program that actually allows people to redeem miles on popular flights and doesn't restrict upgrade awards on fare class; not to mention the best domestic premium service bar none. And for those of us that aren't fat, a 10 across Y cabin is probably just fine. Not to mention that most people don't know, don't care.

What's going to be your whiny excuse when UA and DL introduce 10 across? Because its going to happen. Even if AA goes 9 across with the 77W, get ready for reality: 10 across will become the new normal.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: SXDFC
Posted 2012-03-07 21:05:30 and read 4509 times.

Does anyone know the registrations of the first 77Ws?

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: usxguy
Posted 2012-03-07 22:41:46 and read 4403 times.

so a little e-mail from a pal in mgt at American is saying that it looks like they are reshuffling the configuration of the airplane, so it sounds like there could be some struggling between going with 10 abreast vs 9....

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: NZ1
Posted 2012-03-08 00:29:32 and read 4204 times.

Hi Everyone,

Please kindly remember to keep on topic. Also try to respect that others do have differing opinions, all of which are welcome provided they comply with the rules.

Further intervention in this thread by the moderator team will like see this thread archived.

Thanks

NZ1
Forum Moderator

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: AAplat4life
Posted 2012-03-08 04:07:39 and read 4085 times.

AA's issue is not whether it can get away with more coach seats per row based on EK and AF has done, but whether it can do this based on UA and DL. AA's reputation is now tarnished enough and it is not going to want to roll out the new 77Ws with 10 seats per coach row only to have to reconfigure them because of its competitors. Adding a few more inches of legroom for status and paying passengers is not going to be enough to address the width issue. In fact, AA's coach seats in its 772ERs are not bad at all in terms of pitch and width, although the entertainment system is pretty basic (but I bring my own anyway).

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: RobK
Posted 2012-03-08 05:22:59 and read 4015 times.

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 81):
Does anyone know the registrations of the first 77Ws?

WE301 N717AN 31543
WE302 N718AN 41665

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: airbazar
Posted 2012-03-08 08:03:17 and read 3852 times.

There are a couple of things that the AA chearleaders are missing completely. That is the impact that a bad experience can have for the rest of the network and the customer composition.
AA is not EK, AF, EY, NZ, etc... AA's customer base in Y are American passenger who also fly domestic routes. They're also on average larger than people in other parts of the world. As most of us agree, these are customers who really don't care much, or know anything about airplane models, seat pitch and how many seats per row. They just care about the fare. But this ignorance could work against AA. One miserable long haul experience in a cramped AA 77W economy cabin is enough to leave a mark on anyone and the next time these people will want to travel somewhere they will remember that miserable experience that they had on AA. In other words, passenger ignorance, over time, could work against AA on their entire network not just where they fly 77Ws. EK, AF, EY, NZ, etc, don't have nearly the domestic and short haul business that AA has and lets face it, their soft product in Y is eons ahead of AA which helps soften things up.

Topic: RE: American 777-300ER Updates?
Username: klkla
Posted 2012-03-08 14:56:48 and read 3604 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 80):
not to mention the best domestic premium service bar none

LOL  

But on a serious subject has AA announced what the total seat count will be on the 773?


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