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Topic: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: gytr31
Posted 2012-03-06 02:44:12 and read 5511 times.

Turkish Airlines first flight to Mogadishu, Somalia's capital touched down today

"The first major commercial airline in more than 20 years has landed at Mogadishu airport in war-torn Somalia" says the BBC.

Quite an exciting moment for the horn of Africa and hopefully a sign of more prosperity to come!! I wish it all the best

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-17269620

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: RWA380
Posted 2012-03-06 02:49:17 and read 5501 times.

Wow, good luck with that! As long as the planes aren't shot at, or passengers kidnapped, could be a money maker, provided they can get crews in and out same day, no overnights, I'm sure that is what is planned. What aircraft is being used on the route?

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: 330lover
Posted 2012-03-06 02:53:14 and read 5490 times.

737-800
stops in KRT
total time 07:45hrs

return via KRT as well
Though it seems to be a direct MGQ-IST on 343 today. What's the reason for this?

[Edited 2012-03-06 02:54:59]

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: leftyboarder
Posted 2012-03-06 02:57:03 and read 5474 times.

Quoting 330lover (Reply 2):
Though it seems to be a direct MGQ-IST on 343 today. What's the reason for this?

Taking TK CEO Kotil as well as ministers to celebrate the event.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 1):
Wow, good luck with that! As long as the planes aren't shot at, or passengers kidnapped, could be a money maker, provided they can get crews in and out same day, no overnights, I'm sure that is what is planned.

Staying only 1 hour on the ground in MGQ. In by 7am, out by 8am.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: 330lover
Posted 2012-03-06 02:59:41 and read 5459 times.

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 3):
Quoting RWA380 (Reply 1):
Wow, good luck with that! As long as the planes aren't shot at, or passengers kidnapped, could be a money maker, provided they can get crews in and out same day, no overnights, I'm sure that is what is planned.

Staying only 1 hour on the ground in MGQ. In by 7am, out by 8am.

What about crew? Do they immediately fly back, or stay in MGQ or KRT?

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: RWA380
Posted 2012-03-06 03:26:51 and read 5390 times.

Quoting 330lover (Reply 4):
What about crew? Do they immediately fly back, or stay in MGQ or KRT?

I'm guessing 1 overnight in KRT, then r/t same day to MGQ then back to KRT for another overnight, bet they don't even deplane, I wouldn't want to if I was a crew member, guessing it won't be a popular route bid.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: Flying Belgian
Posted 2012-03-06 03:35:02 and read 5372 times.

Quoting 330lover (Reply 4):
What about crew? Do they immediately fly back, or stay in MGQ or KRT?

Certainly not overnighting in MGQ, but you can never exclude a technical while in MGQ (bird strikes are a major cause of AOGs in Africa...). In that case as crew I'd prefer sleeping in the plane even with an APU out of service !!!

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: RWA380
Posted 2012-03-06 03:46:04 and read 5337 times.

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 6):
Certainly not overnighting in MGQ, but you can never exclude a technical while in MGQ (bird strikes are a major cause of AOGs in Africa...). In that case as crew I'd prefer sleeping in the plane even with an APU out of service !!!

Exactly what I'd expect, the safety of TK's passengers & crew would be their first priority I think. Where is the closest diversion point, that TK would be welcome in if something is going down in MGQ? I hope TK takes only cash onboard for duty free.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: SurfandSnow
Posted 2012-03-06 04:46:04 and read 5211 times.

MGQ today is *exactly* what BGW was in the mid-2000s - once a thriving regional aviation hub with a rich history of (long haul international) airline service, but devastated by years of warfare that decimated infrastructure and of course O&D demand. Baghdad then was the infamous airport with the gut-wrenching spiral approach (no regular approaches thanks to the high risk of insurgent missile attacks), the notoriously deadly access road, and an unprecedented laundry list of security checkpoints/measures inside and outside the airport. Even RJ couldn't serve the airport with its own metal: for reasons of insurance liability they had to outsource all ops to a South African F28 operator for several years. But today, the airport has achieved a remarkable sense of normalcy - it hosts a number of prominent foreign operators, including widebody service (EK), LCC service (FZ), and a nonstop link to the heart of Europe on a major Western carrier (OS). With cities like Baghdad and Kabul regaining prominent aviation links, this left Mogadishu as the only major city anywhere in the world with zero airline service by an established, respected airline. Therefore, it was only a matter of time before someone decided to jump on the opportunity. As always, it is the poorest, most conflict ridden places that make the airlines the most money. The likes of Haiti - by far the poorest nation in the Western hemisphere - seem to rake in the dough for the American carriers while the beautiful, peaceful, stable bastions of wealth in Scandinavia are hardly a worthwhile opportunity  . So long as law and order continues to prevail in Mogadishu, what with the western-backed local government now having full control of the city and its airport, I'd say the aviation situation there could look a lot like Baghdad and Kabul in a few years. I bet the major African flag carriers (ET, KQ), Gulf airlines, and even a few big names in Europe will be closely watching how TK does and could jump in soon.

TK is an airline that isn't afraid to fly anywhere. Say what you will about the geopolitical nature of Turkey, but TK was the first European/Western carrier to serve Baghdad and Kabul. They have a relatively long but successful history of serving chronically turbulent regions like the Balkans, Caucasus, and Central Asia (former Soviet Republics). As such, it is hardly surprising that they were brave enough to be the first major airline to serve Somalia's volatile capital.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: cedarjet
Posted 2012-03-06 05:14:20 and read 5134 times.

Interesting subject. Mogadishu does have some airline service, with 737s, A320s and DC-9s from unheard of airlines flying in from Nairobi, Juba, Hargeisa, places like that. TK is noteworthy because they are a major. But it is not accurate to think there is no airline service to MGQ. Have a look on YouTube, you will find landing and ramp videos with plenty of jets (and lovely Il-18s).

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 1):
As long as the planes aren't shot at

A Turkish Airlines 737 from below looks the same as an anonymous leasing co 737, and the anonymous leasing co hardware doesn't get shot at so I'm sure THY will be safe. Even the guys with guns are grateful for airlinks, otherwise how would they send their wives to London on shopping trips?

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 1):
passengers kidnapped

Once they've cleared customs, they're on their own. But remember Mogadishu is home to millions of people. Yes there is political violence, shootings, car bombings, but daily life mostly revolves around work, food, water, kids, family, transport, usual aspects of life for all of us.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 5):
bet they don't even deplane, I wouldn't want to if I was a crew member, guessing it won't be a popular route bid.

I am also sure they don't deplane but crew don't deplane anywhere where there's a stop of 50 mins eg British Airways in Venice, USAirways in Tuscon, Qantas in Mt Isa. Hard to judge popularity, I don't think any cabin crew will be "scared" to take the trip, more likely they won't like it cos it's three days away without much flying credit for the month.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 7):
I hope TK takes only cash onboard for duty free.

Me no understand.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 8):
TK was the first European/Western carrier to serve Baghdad and Kabul. They have a relatively long but successful history of serving chronically turbulent regions like the Balkans, Caucasus, and Central Asia (former Soviet Republics).

THY are able to do this because they have good relations with the rest of the world (except Kurds) which pays dividends for their domestic economy.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: TK787
Posted 2012-03-06 05:54:52 and read 5042 times.

We talked about this at "Turkish Aviation" threads when the route announced while back;

-Last year, TK sent in doctors to Somalia with a 343 and brought back bunch of patients to be treated. Also TK collected close to 1 Million TL as donations to Somalia.
-TK and Turkish CAA spent some money and sent in teams to rehabilitate the airport and probably the safety arrangements, there earlier.
-Probably 343 will be replaced by 739ERs later this year. Presently 2 in the fleet, 7 more arriving this year. 738s can do this route also.
-If I remember correctly, the return crew will be ferried, so no overnight crews.

Hope this goes as planned.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: bjorn14
Posted 2012-03-06 06:43:21 and read 4952 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 5):
I wouldn't want to if I was a crew member, guessing it won't be a popular route bid.

I wonder if TK will offer 'combat' pay?

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 7):
Where is the closest diversion point

Probably, ASM or JIB

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: 330lover
Posted 2012-03-06 06:51:19 and read 4928 times.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 11):
Quoting RWA380 (Reply 7):
Where is the closest diversion point

Probably, ASM or JIB

Or, more probable IMO: ADD or NBO (TK destinations already, so handling is no problem, staff is there,...)

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: BuyantUkhaa
Posted 2012-03-06 13:53:43 and read 4515 times.

The paranoid Dutch government has noticed this development and the immigration minister stated in parliament today that he is worried that Somali refugees will now use these flights to cross the Turkish/Greek land border to ask for political asylum in the Netherlands.

link in Dutch only

Just to provide the context, the Dutch minority government is held hostage by a populist anti-immigration party that they have a parliamentary pact with in order to pass laws (but that party does not take part in the government itself).

Sorry, back to topic.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: leftyboarder
Posted 2012-03-06 14:12:49 and read 4465 times.

Ahem, that is utter BS. Illegal immigrants crossing the Greek/Turkish border probably do not take the plane to Turkey from MGQ but cross the Turkey / Iran or Turkey / Iraq border on foot - those are rather difficult to control.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: SuperCaravelle
Posted 2012-03-06 14:21:38 and read 4452 times.

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 13):
The paranoid Dutch government has noticed this development and the immigration minister stated in parliament today that he is worried that Somali refugees will now use these flights to cross the Turkish/Greek land border to ask for political asylum in the Netherlands.

link in Dutch only

Just to provide the context, the Dutch minority government is held hostage by a populist anti-immigration party that they have a parliamentary pact with in order to pass laws (but that party does not take part in the government itself).

Sorry, back to topic.

  I apologize for this clown that's bringing down our country.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2012-03-06 14:28:41 and read 4429 times.

I expect TK's insurance costs are very high for that route.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: usflyer msp
Posted 2012-03-06 14:37:58 and read 4408 times.

The prices are actually pretty reasonable for the flight. MSP-MGQ (via ORD and IST) is running about $1800 r/t which about equal to what the local Somalis currently pay to get to NBO or DXB (before they buy a separate ticket or go overland to Somalia). I suspect TK will become very popular around here (we have a TON of Somalis).

[Edited 2012-03-06 14:38:30]

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2012-03-06 19:09:24 and read 4182 times.

There's an article on Mogadishu in this month's TK inflight magazine, right after the article about San Francisco 

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: ETinCaribe
Posted 2012-03-06 20:25:34 and read 4060 times.

Bravo TK!!! For sure an important milestone, hopefully a sign of things to come. I suspect that there is some deal with the Islamists to avoid attacks on TK - pure speculation on my part.

Any speculations on who will follow TK into MGQ?

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: ASA
Posted 2012-03-06 21:05:25 and read 3997 times.

Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 19):
Any speculations on who will follow TK into MGQ?

Gotta be one from the Gulf. My bets are on QR ...  

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: stylo777
Posted 2012-03-06 21:39:53 and read 3965 times.

Here you can see some pictures from the first flight: http://www.airturkhaber.com/haber_detay.asp?haberID=4596

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: ju068
Posted 2012-03-06 21:46:48 and read 3954 times.

This might seem like a stupid question, however since there are a lot of diplomats and UN officials using the airport, and TK being famous for their business class product, is the airport equipped with a business class lounge?

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: abrelosojos
Posted 2012-03-06 22:35:24 and read 3893 times.

Having been to MGQ, this is exciting  . Also, I have maintained for a while that I am a BIG fan of TK ... and this continue to be the right step forward. Now, if only they can make the connections @ IST a little bit better ... especially the annoying security checks for CDN/USA/ISR flights. I recognize they are necessary - but other countries handle it much better.

Saludos,
A.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: SuperCaravelle
Posted 2012-03-07 01:18:32 and read 3717 times.

Quoting stylo777 (Reply 21):
Here you can see some pictures from the first flight: http://www.airturkhaber.com/haber_de...=4596

Excellent photos, nice to see the happiness on the faces of the population. This must be a major step forward for the region  

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: RWA380
Posted 2012-03-07 02:40:07 and read 3759 times.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 9):
Quoting RWA380 (Reply 7):I hope TK takes only cash onboard for duty free.
Me no understand.

BA and I don't know if VS is included in this too, BA was taking credit cards for duty free goods onboard on the LON-LOS route, and apparently a lot of those cards were stolen, fake or ripped from other peoples accounts. I think from an earlier thread here on A.net, this had been resolved with cash only payments. I know Somalias claim to fame is pirates not credit card fraud, like Nigeria, but I can't see if thug pirates sending their wives on trips to spend their ill gotten spoils, wouldn't find it too difficult to pass off a stolen card for smokes and booze. Just my humble opinion.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: TK787
Posted 2012-03-07 05:16:48 and read 3638 times.

Didn't know about this 12,000 people tent city ran by the Turkish Red Crescent, and the two hospitals Turkey is building there;
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tur...pageID=238&nID=15426&NewsCatID=338

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: ASA
Posted 2012-03-07 07:28:50 and read 3527 times.

Good to see the photos!!! The airport looks pretty nice for a war-torn region. Looks like it was freshly renovated. The TIKA plaque says that the airport was readied for international flights with Turkish help.

Also lots of security around ... on and above the ground. Choppers in the sky too (in one photo). The security people have no affiliation or insignia. Are these AU troops or Somalian govt troops? (I was surprised to see the heavy armored vehicles)

The overall socio-political atmosphere looks positive (this might not be very representative of overall Mogadishu though). But on the whole, Turkey scored a major political-economic-diplomatic card here with its early engagement with Somalia - starting with Erdogan's visit and the donation conference for Somalia, and the airport, the hospitals and relief operations, and now the TK flights. Turkey has essentially become their gateway to the modern world. Somalis across the world will use the TK link now ... frequency will pick up soon, I hope!

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: klwright69
Posted 2012-03-12 05:07:27 and read 3074 times.

I have a good Somali friend here in Saudi Arabia. He was just in Mogadishu a few months ago. He gave me some insight into this situation.

He is actually from northern Somalia, aka Somaliland.

He flew into Mogadishu and was met and escorted by, and stayed with a friend who is a government official. He flew Jubba Airlines from Jeddah Saudi Arabia.

He said that of course Mogadishu is a truly scary place right now, he calls it the "ghost city", which is also the name of a documentary about Somalia on youtube.

The international airport is the safest place in the city. My friend said the government was able to make airport improvements to welcome an top tier international carrier. The Turkish Airlines flight is a monumental step forward.

He said the flight will be successful because of the great Somalia diaspora, as others have mentioned here. Most importantly, the government NOW has the upper hand against Al-Shabab fighters, and Al-Shabab is on the defensive against the forces now mobilizing against them. There was a large conference in London focusing on Somalia, and things in the country are moving in the right direction, and foreign investment and trade will be increasing as the situation improves.

He said Turkish made a smart move for the long-term picture, and the route will be a success.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: Pe@rson
Posted 2012-03-12 05:26:01 and read 3027 times.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 28):
He said Turkish made a smart move for the long-term picture, and the route will be a success.

Of course, those are just guesses; after all, he would have done no in-depth analysis and forecasting. Still, it was good to get a Somali's perspective.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: Tdan
Posted 2012-03-12 05:50:05 and read 2966 times.

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 29):

Of course, those are just guesses; after all, he would have done no in-depth analysis and forecasting. Still, it was good to get a Somali's perspective.

Not a formal analysis, but given that this is the only online connection for thousands and thousands of people to return home in addition to the high cost of a ticket to fly to MGQ, I'd say it's as good of a perspective and analysis that one could make for such a route. It's more politically motivated than anything, but I bet it's highly profitable since the most risky destinations with limited competition tend to be some of the most profitable.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: Pe@rson
Posted 2012-03-12 06:07:57 and read 2938 times.

Quoting Tdan (Reply 30):
Not a formal analysis, but given that this is the only online connection for thousands and thousands of people to return home in addition to the high cost of a ticket to fly to MGQ, I'd say it's as good of a perspective and analysis that one could make for such a route. It's more politically motivated than anything, but I bet it's highly profitable since the most risky destinations with limited competition tend to be some of the most profitable.

I didn't say it wouldn't do well. I just said those are guesses, and without formal analysis just that. Still, as I said, it's good to get a Somali's perspective.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: klwright69
Posted 2012-03-12 08:08:39 and read 2838 times.

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 31):
Quoting Tdan (Reply 30):
Not a formal analysis, but given that this is the only online connection for thousands and thousands of people to return home in addition to the high cost of a ticket to fly to MGQ, I'd say it's as good of a perspective and analysis that one could make for such a route. It's more politically motivated than anything, but I bet it's highly profitable since the most risky destinations with limited competition tend to be some of the most profitable.

I didn't say it wouldn't do well. I just said those are guesses, and without formal analysis just that. Still, as I said, it's good to get a Somali's perspective.

Yes, not a formal analysis. I just wanted to share the insight and observation from someone who was just there. It's not like you run into people everyday that personally know Mogadishu.

I am sure TK did formal analysis before launching such a bold route. Talk about risk taking and thinking out of the box.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Begins Flights To Mogadishu
Username: Pe@rson
Posted 2012-03-12 08:10:26 and read 2838 times.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 32):
Yes, not a formal analysis. I just wanted to share the insight and observation from someone who was just there. It's not like you run into people everyday that personally know Mogadishu.

I am sure TK did formal analysis before launching such a bold route. Talk about risk taking and thinking out of the box.

Please don't misinterpret what I meant - I am very glad to hear from a Somali about it.  

TK would, of course, have done all necessary analysis. And I like their daring approach to some routes.


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