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Topic: Russian Jet Takes Off With "hole In Wing"
Username: bobmuc
Posted 2012-03-21 05:37:52 and read 14085 times.

Hello,
couldn't find it posted:
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world/view/1190398/1/.html

It wasn't a hole, but still a kind of strange story...

Topic: RE: Russian Jet Takes Off With "hole In Wing"
Username: khpn
Posted 2012-03-21 08:21:45 and read 13614 times.

The story leaves much room for speculation.
Anybody able to dig up which UN 737 this was?
UN has 737-300/400/500/800 so this would seem like the first step to identifying (by A.net standard) what exactly was missing.

Topic: RE: Russian Jet Takes Off With "hole In Wing"
Username: bobmuc
Posted 2012-03-21 09:17:44 and read 13382 times.

News video with picture of the missing part:
http://rt.com/news/prime-time/transaero-plane-wing-hole-018/

Shouldn't be a problem for the 737-experts here to identify it by "A.net standard"...  

Topic: RE: Russian Jet Takes Off With "hole In Wing"
Username: DualQual
Posted 2012-03-21 10:01:30 and read 13156 times.

There are a bunch of different access panels on the wing. If a cover was missing you might be able to go depending on which cover/panel etc. I don't have an MEL/CDL in front of me but if it says you can go without you can go.

Topic: RE: Russian Jet Takes Off With "hole In Wing"
Username: clydenairways
Posted 2012-03-21 10:19:52 and read 13039 times.

Well they could have at least covered it over with speed tape, it would have saved them a lot of hassle.

Topic: RE: Russian Jet Takes Off With "hole In Wing"
Username: yeelep
Posted 2012-03-21 11:21:17 and read 12783 times.

Yep that's a missing access panel from a 737classic. I don't think that is a CDL item. They obviously do things a little differently in Russia. Either replace the panel with a spare, rob one from another plane or have an engineering disposition to make a temp. panel out of aluminum sheet and speed tape or speed tape alone. Another potentially interesting item in the article is the first refused takeoff due to a indication problem connected to the A/C system. Its possible the panel was loose and then blown out due to a duct leak in the strut that also caused the flight deck indication. There is a blow out panel in the strut, but if the panel was already loose, it may have been the path of least resistance. Of course it probably was unrelated but its fun to speculate.

Topic: RE: Russian Jet Takes Off With "hole In Wing"
Username: deltaffindfw
Posted 2012-03-21 11:44:13 and read 12666 times.

I've had that happen on a DL 732 about 7-8 years ago - PDX-DFW. Missing access panel. Pilot talked with maintenance, he added more fuel to compensate for drag, and we took off.

Topic: RE: Russian Jet Takes Off With "hole In Wing"
Username: Ty134A
Posted 2012-03-21 15:51:42 and read 12177 times.

Russians are getting spoiled... I remember some years ago you would have been happy if it wasn't more than just a missing panel. I already had a whole cowling missing on an A28, and the pilot ment that the plane only goes up to 3500m. That made me then feel better.

I have seen a machanic with a 200 rub tool bolting (replacing 2 bolts) on the intake on a YK2 while I was sitting on seat 18f... But that was rather funny, he was so friendly and smiled to me from minus 35 degrees to the warm 7 in the plane (yes, staircase open).

I remember a flight on a YK4, on which the airline painted the toilet and refurbished it. The paind was wet and on the floor the remainders of drilling holes were to be found. Holes were drilled into direction of fuselage  for the toilet paper holder.

And a navigator I know told me they could only go up to 7500m with a certain TU3, as it can't hold the pressure much higher.

So what was the trouble on the UN flight? Hahaha, slava russkoj aviazii!!!

Topic: RE: Russian Jet Takes Off With "hole In Wing"
Username: tdscanuck
Posted 2012-03-21 19:58:46 and read 10228 times.

Quoting DualQual (Reply 3):
There are a bunch of different access panels on the wing. If a cover was missing you might be able to go depending on which cover/panel etc. I don't have an MEL/CDL in front of me but if it says you can go without you can go.

Deferable under CDL 54-20-02. Up to 4 panels are allowed to be missing per strut. For just one missing there is no takeoff/landing penalty. The crew was completely within procedure to continue the flight.

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 4):
Well they could have at least covered it over with speed tape, it would have saved them a lot of hassle.

That would be worse; the CDL already covers the panel missing. It doesn't cover the hole being sealed up with speedtape...the latter would require an engineering disposition.

Quoting yeelep (Reply 5):
There is a blow out panel in the strut, but if the panel was already loose, it may have been the path of least resistance.

That is the blowout panel.

Tom.

Topic: RE: Russian Jet Takes Off With "hole In Wing"
Username: 737tdi
Posted 2012-03-21 21:32:06 and read 9145 times.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 8):
That is the blowout panel.

I don't think you would call that a blowout panel. It is an access panel to the bleed air duct, wiring harnesses, pressure sensors, fuel line, hydraulic line, etc.. We have had them come off in flight due to incorrect installation, they use a type of wing nut that engages the flange on the pylon panel, if the nut doesn't rotate the 90 degrees you should see it due to the indexed collar that is marked on top. Kind of a crappy set up but in no way a safety of flight issue.

Topic: RE: Russian Jet Takes Off With "hole In Wing"
Username: yeelep
Posted 2012-03-22 00:58:42 and read 7319 times.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 8):
That is the blowout panel


Nope, not a blow out panel. The blowout panel is located on the fwd strut fairing.

Topic: RE: Russian Jet Takes Off With "hole In Wing"
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-03-22 02:29:36 and read 6405 times.

The picture is not displaying,but sounds like an access panel....Could be deffered under CDL.

Topic: RE: Russian Jet Takes Off With "hole In Wing"
Username: transaeroyyz
Posted 2012-03-22 04:07:37 and read 5499 times.

One of four Boeing 737-300s, ranging 11-25 yrs old, http://www.planespotters.net/Product...e=737-300&fleet=3697&fleetStatus=1

Topic: RE: Russian Jet Takes Off With "hole In Wing"
Username: tdscanuck
Posted 2012-03-22 07:13:31 and read 4246 times.

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 9):
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 8):
That is the blowout panel.

I don't think you would call that a blowout panel.

I was calling it a blowout panel because that's what the CDL called it, at least as I looked at the drawing.

Quoting yeelep (Reply 10):
Nope, not a blow out panel. The blowout panel is located on the fwd strut fairing.

Isn't that what's shown in the video? I stared at the CDL drawing for several minutes trying to locate the panel from the video against the drawing. It seems to fit the blowout panel location best.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 11):

The picture is not displaying,but sounds like an access panel....Could be deffered under CDL.

If it's an access panel the same CDL rules apply (different CDL item from the blowout panel but same restrictions).

Tom.

Topic: RE: Russian Jet Takes Off With "hole In Wing"
Username: 737tdi
Posted 2012-03-22 11:19:11 and read 3967 times.

Don't quote me too closely but I believe there are 5 total of these panels on the pylon, 2 on the side and 3 on top. I tried to find my panel book but it must be at work.

Topic: RE: Russian Jet Takes Off With "hole In Wing"
Username: yeelep
Posted 2012-03-24 06:16:22 and read 3387 times.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 13):
Isn't that what's shown in the video? I stared at the CDL drawing for several minutes trying to locate the panel from the video against the drawing. It seems to fit the blowout panel location best.

In the picture below, the missing panel is the one on the right, the blowout panel is the one on the left with the stencil on it.



Quoting 737tdi (Reply 14):
Don't quote me too closely but I believe there are 5 total of these panels on the pylon, 2 on the side and 3 on top. I tried to find my panel book but it must be at work.

Eight total of this type of access panel per pylon. Three on top, two inboard and three outboard. One inboard and two outboard panels are hidden by the C-ducts.

[Edited 2012-03-24 07:16:14]

Topic: RE: Russian Jet Takes Off With "hole In Wing"
Username: Alnicocunife
Posted 2012-03-24 06:24:46 and read 3364 times.

Maybe their Engineering department allowed the aircraft to fly one or two cycles to get to a maintenance station. Would not be in the CDL. Still Legal.

Topic: RE: Russian Jet Takes Off With "hole In Wing"
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-03-24 07:04:54 and read 3287 times.

Quoting Alnicocunife (Reply 16):
Maybe their Engineering department allowed the aircraft to fly one or two cycles to get to a maintenance station. Would not be in the CDL. Still Legal.

True....But can special permission taken from Regulatory that is Not documented in the CDL be permitted.

Topic: RE: Russian Jet Takes Off With "hole In Wing"
Username: yeelep
Posted 2012-03-24 07:15:23 and read 3269 times.

Check Tom's reply #8. In this case the missing panel is a CDL item, no engineering or special permission required.

Topic: RE: Russian Jet Takes Off With "hole In Wing"
Username: tdscanuck
Posted 2012-03-24 10:53:28 and read 3103 times.

Quoting yeelep (Reply 15):
In the picture below, the missing panel is the one on the right, the blowout panel is the one on the left with the stencil on it.

Thanks for that; my mental picture of where the leading edge was relative to the strut was way off. It would be nice if the CDL diagram included the leading edge.

Quoting Alnicocunife (Reply 16):
Maybe their Engineering department allowed the aircraft to fly one or two cycles to get to a maintenance station. Would not be in the CDL.

It is on the CDL.All the strut access panels and the blowout door are on there.

Tom.

Topic: RE: Russian Jet Takes Off With "hole In Wing"
Username: 737tdi
Posted 2012-03-25 00:23:30 and read 2763 times.

Quoting yeelep (Reply 15):
Eight total of this type of access panel per pylon. Three on top, two inboard and three outboard. One inboard and two outboard panels are hidden by the C-ducts.

I was just referencing the top of the pylon. The ones under the reversers (C ducts) can't be lost even if left unscrewed (unattached), they are captured. LOL. I forget that sometimes I have to be absolutely specific. WOW.

Been working on CFM-56-2's and 3's and 7's since 1990, kinda sorta familiar to me. You can go on but ??? Oh, not the 7 at that time.

Come on, You knew exactly what I meant but you had to be smarter. Not cool. I have removed those panels hundreds of times, gotten dirt and crap in my eyes from it. They are under the hottest spot on the engine. Takes a 1/4" dr. ratchet with a shortened bit to remove or your ratchet buries itself in the hi temp goo on the TR. Get some, buddy. Have a nice Marine Corps Day.

737tdi

Topic: RE: Russian Jet Takes Off With "hole In Wing"
Username: yeelep
Posted 2012-03-25 00:42:37 and read 2740 times.

Just making a clarification, not trying to one up you. From reading other post's you have made I am aware of your knowledge/familiarity of the 737. My own length of experience with the CFM's is similar to your's, except the -2, never had the pleasure.


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