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Topic: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: QF175
Posted 2012-03-28 03:37:47 and read 20486 times.

Below is a snap shot on what was discussed in Australian Aviation Thread # 59.

* Qantas fleet news
* Skytrans confirmed it will launch Toowoomba-Sydney services in JUL12
* Alliance Airlines F100 services
* Qantas 747-400 refurbishment schedule
* Qantas and its JNB services from Sydney
* Qantas A380 services
* Lengthy discussion about Qantas' Dallas - Australia flights and passenger numbers
* QantasLink to introduce 717s on Brisbane-Alice Springs in APR12
* Alice Springs Airport happens to be listed in the Virgin booking engine - possible new service?
* Lengthy discussion Australia - South America air services market
* Strong passenger growth for Brisbane and Melbourne Airports
* Melbourne Airport expansion
* Virgin Australia announces it will construct a lounge at Hobart Airport in 2013
* Various Airline schedule changes and increases
* Aerolineas Argentinas - possible changes to SYD schedule
* Qantas 747 retirement
* Jetstar Hong Kong announcement
* SilkAir inaugurates Darwin services
* Virgin Australia and Virgin Atlantic finally commence codesharing on Sydney - Hong Kong vv
* EVA Air Brisbane services
* Flightaware finally introduces coverages in Australia

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: QF175
Posted 2012-03-28 03:48:24 and read 20487 times.

Push for international flights from Canberra

Quote:

Released 26/03/2012

Canberra’s push for international flights in 2013 will step up this month with the establishment of a taskforce to coordinate our city’s efforts.

The taskforce will comprise members drawn from the business and tourism sectors to work with Canberra International Airport and the ACT Government.

Now is the time for a Canberra team to come together to pitch to airlines to start direct international flights to and from Canberra.

In recent months, the ACT Government has been meeting with key stakeholders, and last month I visited New Zealand to hold initial discussions with aviation and airline representatives about future direct services.

Following meetings with Air New Zealand, Wellington Airport and Positively Wellington Tourism there is a consensus that with the appropriate level of investment and collaboration we could attract significant levels of business and leisure travellers in both directions.

Positive discussions with Tourism Australia to market cooperatively into cities that could be serviced by direct flights have also taken place.

Last year the Government committed $100,000 for an Airline Access Development Fund. From this has come a demand analysis report – which included consultation with key stakeholders – that identifies and evaluates potential markets to attract direct international flights. A draft report is currently under consideration and further international routes such as Canberra-Singapore are being examined.

The initial indications from business and tourism industry stakeholders have been extremely positive, and it is now time to gather all our expertise and pitch to airlines to attract them to Canberra.

Source Link

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: tayser
Posted 2012-03-28 04:16:49 and read 20432 times.

in other QF news:

http://www.theage.com.au/business/fi...ic-from-qantas-20120328-1vxmm.html

Quote:
Fiji wrests control of Air Pacific from Qantas
Matt O'Sullivan
March 28, 2012 - 11:53AM

The military-controlled Fiji government has tightened its ownership rules for airlines in a move aimed at reducing the control Qantas, a major shareholder, exerts over the flag carrier Air Pacific.
The new law stipulates that Air Pacific will have to be under the ''substantial ownership and effective control'' of the government, a Fijian citizen or a corporation which is at least 51 per cent owned by Fijians.
The Civil Aviation Decree will also require that at least two-thirds of Air Pacific's board are Fijian, and that the airline is ''under actual and effective control of Fijian citizens''.
Advertisement: Story continues below
The Fijian government has argued Qantas, which has a 46 per cent in Air Pacific, has maintained effective control over the airline through super-majority and veto rights over significant parts of the airline.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-03-28 07:12:30 and read 20238 times.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 4):

Probably the government could've committed the $100,000 else where which really needed it...

If the demand was there I understand but really what's so difficult about transitting VIA Sydney or Melbourne etc...

EK413

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: allrite
Posted 2012-03-28 21:23:39 and read 19731 times.

After living in Canberra for 3 years I absolutely love the place. It's so much easier than Sydney and you can find real peace and quiet when you desire it.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 4):
Canberra has a decent catchment (Queanbeyan, Wagga etc) but the total population within a radius of 150-200km will still be substantially below the population of Adelaide and it's catchment. Look at how little service ADL gets is as it is...

How much of that catchment other than Canberra itself is likely to travel overseas? Canberra is too close to Sydney and the main highway goes straight through to Sydney Airport (not that it's any fun driving along it once you approach Sydney). It's 25 minutes of flight time by jet (double it to include taxiing at Sydney airport). I'd love a fast train airport to airport via the respective city centres, but I'm probably dreaming. It will be necessary if they want to turn it into Sydney's second airport, but I already struggle to see that coming true.

But Canberra is too far away from anything bar south pacific countries for narrowbody service and it's difficult to see there being enough demand for widebodies. You would really need a "Greater Sydney airport" situation with fantastically cheap deals to make it a worthwhile for passengers to fly out on, and it's still probably more cost effective for the likes of Scoot, Jetstar and AirAsiaX to fly out of Sydney, whatever the airport charges due to the greater demand.

* Are there any overseas destinations (eg NZ) where there is consistent and sufficient government travel?
* Are there any seasonal destinations with sufficient travel? (eg snow trips to NZ. Canberrans tend to be pretty outdoorsy. University holiday/return related flights?)

The other option might be feeder domestic legs that connect with overseas flights (eg via Darwin or Cairns to Asia).

Even if overseas tourists were willing to fly directly into Canberra the city needs more decent accommodation. Most of them are designed around driving tourists or serviced apartments for longer stayers. When parliament is in session it's difficult to book anything decent at a reasonable price.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: MilesDependent
Posted 2012-03-28 21:43:21 and read 19707 times.

Quoting QF175 (Thread starter):
* Aerolineas Argentinas - possible changes to SYD schedule

Looks confirmed to me. Non-stop to SYD, and pulling out of AKL.

First EZE-SYD on 2 July.

AR 1180; EZE-SYD; 0830/1320; 340; Mo,We,Fr
AR 1181; SYD-EZE; 1830/1955; 340; Tu,Th,Sa

EZE-SYD showing as 15hr50min flying time!

Why do they have the 340 sitting on the ground in SYD for so long. Arriving into EZE at 1955 is too late for a lot of connections. Why not leave SYD at 1500 and get into EZE at 1630?

md

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: kiwiandrew
Posted 2012-03-28 21:52:00 and read 19696 times.

Quoting MilesDependent (Reply 5):
Why do they have the 340 sitting on the ground in SYD for so long.

Given AR's track record for punctuality it is probably wise to have some slack in the schedule.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: eta unknown
Posted 2012-03-29 20:16:54 and read 19224 times.

FJ tried CBR-NAN and the route was pulled rather quickly. I wish I could be on a committee to get paid to recommend a CBR-SIN link...do they actually seriously believe such a route could be viable or have they convinced themselves it could be truthful???

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: DavidByrne
Posted 2012-03-29 21:00:38 and read 19184 times.

Quoting MilesDependent (Reply 5):
AR 1180; EZE-SYD; 0830/1320; 340; Mo,We,Fr
AR 1181; SYD-EZE; 1830/1955; 340; Tu,Th,Sa

I can't seriously think that there will be feed from anywhere else in South America with those timings (and potentially nowhere in Argentina except BA) - they are making themselves entirely dependent on the Argentina-Australia market. The current schedule not only allows for NZ traffic but also allows connections elsewhere in South America. Very risky move, I'd have thought. I can only think it's driven by the need to reduce crewing and accommodation costs by having only a point-to-point service.

[later] Ooops - seems there is a horrible red-eye from both GIG and GRU to "connect" (four hour wait) at EZE for the SYD flight.

[Edited 2012-03-29 21:06:37]

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: ADDICT4QF
Posted 2012-03-30 20:19:44 and read 18800 times.

vhebb,

> QF B747-400 VH-OJO had her last flight on FRI 30MAR12, doing the QF64 JNB-SYD run. It is now withdrawn from the fleet.

> QF B747-400 VH-OJB will be withdrawn from the fleet in just over a week.

[Edited 2012-03-30 21:15:12]

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-03-31 06:34:22 and read 18442 times.

Quoting ADDICT4QF (Reply 9):

> QF B747-400 VH-OJO had her last flight on FRI 30MAR12, doing the QF64 JNB-SYD run. It is now withdrawn from the fleet.

> QF B747-400 VH-OJB will be withdrawn from the fleet in just over a week.

So sad to see what was once a strong fleet of 36 B744 aircraft rapidly swink and before we know it QF will only have 9 B744...

Certainly is fair to say these B744 aircraft have been revenue makers for QF over the past 20 odd years...

EK413

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: eta unknown
Posted 2012-03-31 22:22:55 and read 18122 times.

Quoting ADDICT4QF (Reply 9):
QF B747-400 VH-OJB will be withdrawn from the fleet in just over a week.

Good riddance. I flew BNE-LAX on that bird last year and it was a wreck inside- old seat covers, lighting issues, old lavatories...

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: ADDICT4QF
Posted 2012-04-01 00:32:40 and read 17993 times.

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 11):

Yes, these retirements, cabin upgrades and fleet renewal are well and truely overdue!

I just hope and wonder how much it will actually contribute to winning back some market share.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: Flyingsottsman
Posted 2012-04-01 00:41:57 and read 17979 times.

Quoting ADDICT4QF (Reply 12):
I just hope and wonder how much it will actually contribute to winning back some market share.

They will need to do a hell of a lot more to win back market share not just retire 744s.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: Flyingsottsman
Posted 2012-04-01 01:38:21 and read 17919 times.

Quoting tayser (Reply 2):
in other QF news:

I heard that comming home from work on the radio on Friday night, didnt QF want to get rid of its stake in FJ like 18 months ago I think I am sure there was a thread about it on here.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: Flyingsottsman
Posted 2012-04-01 01:49:20 and read 17909 times.

Flicking through Australian Avaition, the April issue in my lunch time on Friday, looks like Red Q is done and dusted, did he realy think that he was going to get that of the ground

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: mariner
Posted 2012-04-01 02:26:29 and read 17860 times.

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 15):
Flicking through Australian Avaition, the April issue in my lunch time on Friday, looks like Red Q is done and dusted, did he realy think that he was going to get that of the ground

We must read different sources. Mr. Joyce has said that Red Q is postponed, not dead, and I surely hope it happens.

mariner

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2012-04-01 02:31:16 and read 17851 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 16):
We must read different sources. Mr. Joyce has said that Red Q is postponed, not dead, and I surely hope it happens.

Correct. It was reported to have been put on hold for 2-3 years.

Its bound to come up again at some point.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-04-01 02:55:12 and read 17815 times.

Was curious has VH-OJB operated more cycles as opposed to QF's 1st B744 VH-OJA which is currently still active in the fleet...

EK413

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: thegeek
Posted 2012-04-01 03:04:25 and read 17783 times.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 17):
Correct. It was reported to have been put on hold for 2-3 years.

With that sort of time frame AJ needs to have a few runs on the board or he will be gone, and the new CEO won't want to run with a strategy which struggled to get off the ground.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2012-04-01 03:08:20 and read 17774 times.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 19):
With that sort of time frame AJ needs to have a few runs on the board or he will be gone, and the new CEO won't want to run with a strategy which struggled to get off the ground.

And thats the thing here, theres lots of other work to do now to make what they have work.

Don't expect QF expansion and dont be surprised when the various Jetstar brands take on more of the workload. Using their partner carriers will become ever more important.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: mariner
Posted 2012-04-01 03:17:25 and read 17764 times.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 19):
With that sort of time frame AJ needs to have a few runs on the board or he will be gone, and the new CEO won't want to run with a strategy which struggled to get off the ground.

I understood that t was always a five year plan. It is an impeccable strategy - it changes geography for Qantas - but an enormously difficult thing to put into effect.

mariner

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: Flyingsottsman
Posted 2012-04-01 05:22:20 and read 17650 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 16):
We must read different sources. Mr. Joyce has said that Red Q is postponed, not dead, and I surely hope it happens.

I didnt get to read the full article but I am sure it said around the start of that story that Red Q is dead I will go back and have another look and glady say sorry to you and you were right if I read that wrong Mariner.  

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: Flyingsottsman
Posted 2012-04-01 05:36:55 and read 17633 times.

Could a plan like 738s or A320s and basing them out of say SIN or KUL and running them like a spoke system through out SE Asia like what Pan Am did from Heathrow, could that work for Qantas instead of creating another yet another airline for the QF group.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: gemuser
Posted 2012-04-01 05:40:28 and read 17627 times.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 19):
With that sort of time frame AJ needs to have a few runs on the board or he will be gone,

You think he doesn't have runs on the board? I bet the Board disagrees with you!
Runs:
All the Jetstars
The Grounding, yes that was runs on the board, it did far more good than bad!
Cost cutting
Network realignment
RedQ (still to come)

All of which are good things for the bottom line.

Gemuser

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: Flyingsottsman
Posted 2012-04-01 05:44:16 and read 17761 times.

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 23):
Could a plan like 738s or A320s

I should have said "Could a plan like getting more 738s or A320s and basing them out of SIN or KUL".

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-04-01 06:13:31 and read 17748 times.

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 25):
I should have said "Could a plan like getting more 738s or A320s and basing them out of SIN or KUL".

That is the plan and it is called Red Q once when it takes off the ground operating a B787 fleet but for now the expansion of Jetstar brand in Asia is the focus point and reducing QF's cost's by concentrating on key routes while substituting aircraft on key routes which no longer require for example B744 aircraft...

EK413

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: qf002
Posted 2012-04-01 06:24:18 and read 17941 times.

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 23):
Could a plan like 738s or A320s and basing them out of say SIN or KUL and running them like a spoke system through out SE Asia like what Pan Am did from Heathrow, could that work for Qantas instead of creating another yet another airline for the QF group.

That's exactly what they are trying to do with Red Q. The problems are that:

1. Qantas cannot own a controlling stake in any airline based in most Asian countries (all the desirable ones anyway). This is why they are having numerous issues with JQ (especially in Vietnam).

2. Qantas needs to pick up traffic from the local market in order to make this a viable operation, so the idea was to create a hybrid of sorts, which satisfied the style of connecting Australians and to satisfy the style of local Asian travellers.

3. There are issues with the QF brand being used by an airline that QF doesn't own a controlling stake in. Jetconnect isn't an issue on this front, because it is a 100% QF owned subsidiary. But Problem 1 prevents QF from owning the controlling stake they need to use the QF brand for a foreign owned airline (that's my understanding anyway, happy to be corrected by others if I'm totally off here)...

4. There is nothing stopping QF basing their own aircraft and operations out of a hub like SIN where they have lots of traffic rights. The issue then is that the QF cost base carries over to the new operation, and would probably render it loss-making. Half the point of creating a foreign airline is to utilise foreign labour laws etc.

So, to get around these issues, QF wants to create a new company/brand, which it owns 49% of in partnership with a trustworthy ally who owns the other 51% to satisfy ownership laws (yet won't stray from QF's direction). The idea is that QF provides some of the capital and the leadership, while the other party provides the rest of the capital.

So really, Red Q is just QF operating a hub-spoke Asian network, connecting to (or operating) services to/from Australia and Europe.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: mariner
Posted 2012-04-01 11:44:03 and read 17794 times.

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 22):
I didnt get to read the full article but I am sure it said around the start of that story that Red Q is dead I will go back and have another look and glady say sorry to you and you were right if I read that wrong Mariner.


No need to say sorry, the magazine may well have said "Red Q is dead" - (although I thought it had a question mark after it) - but is the magazine right?

A lot of commentators rushed to that conclusion after Qantas pulled out of the talks with Malaysia and, as usual, very few listened to what Mr. Joyce actually said.

I no longer believe most of the stuff printed about Qantas, or especially Alan Joyce, by most of the Australian airline commentators, starting with Ben Sandilands at Crikey, who seems convinced that he can run the airline better than anyone actually doing it.

mariner

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: airnewzealand
Posted 2012-04-01 11:59:50 and read 17809 times.

In other news to let ya'll know,

SCL/DFW/BNE-LAX will now have the reconfigured 744. Next destination is

BNE-SIN (May)
SYD-LAX (QF107/108)

Cheers

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: mariner
Posted 2012-04-01 12:04:33 and read 17799 times.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 27):
So, to get around these issues, QF wants to create a new company/brand, which it owns 49% of in partnership with a trustworthy ally who owns the other 51% to satisfy ownership laws (yet won't stray from QF's direction).

  

A parallel is Virgin Samoa, in which the Samoan government owns 49%, a commercial group, Aggie Grey Hotels, owns 2% (for a 51% majority) and Virgin Australia holds the remaining 49%.

Under a management agreement, Virgin Australia "runs" the airline, provides the aircraft and aircrews, chooses the routes and does all the scheduling, pricing and maintenance. The Samoans can ask for any specific new route, but have to guarantee it against losses.

Virgin Samoa appears to be simply Virgin Australia in a very slightly different frock, but it is legally a Samoan airline with full Samoan aviation rights.

mariner

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: alangirvan
Posted 2012-04-01 16:03:39 and read 17635 times.

Quoting QF175 (Reply 1):
Canberra’s push for international flights in 2013 will step up this month with the establishment of a taskforce to coordinate our city’s efforts.

The taskforce will comprise members drawn from the business and tourism sectors to work with Canberra International Airport and the ACT Government.

Here we go again! The sad story of international flights for Canberra. I was at the airport on the day of the first flight by Air Pacific - a service that only lasted a few weeks. Then, there was the day the Emirates A340-500 did a demonstration at Canberra, and Tim Clark said there was no reason why Canberra should not fit into EK's network. Canberra has been trying for years to get services to NZ but they never happen.

Since Qantas is a preferred carrier for many Australian Government Departments if Qantas is not interested that will make it harder. It might be possible to have another go at getting leisure carriers, but would they be any great value to the people of Canberra? They might persuade an airline like Air Pacific to have another go at flights to Fiji, but Canberra people might soon notice rather lower fares available from Sydney (the much larger market), and they would drive to Sydney to save perhaps $100. Even if EK had a look at Canberra, they would hope to get access to Business Class travellers - could they wean them off Qantas?

Trans Tasman is one that might work with a joint operation. I do not know if Virgin is making a lot of progress winning business in Canberra - it would be better if it was a joint op between Qantas and AirNZ. Maybe an AirNZ operated service Monday to Friday which could bring Auckland based travellers in for meetings with the Australian Government -

AKL-CBR-WLG-CBR-AKL. It could operate, say, three times weekly to start. I would think A320s are a bit big for the size of the market. Is it worth it, when people are used to doing the transfer at SYD?

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: eta unknown
Posted 2012-04-01 16:47:20 and read 17616 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 18):
Was curious has VH-OJB operated more cycles as opposed to QF's 1st B744 VH-OJA which is currently still active in the fleet...

Funny enough, I flew out OJB and returned on OJA! However, OJA had just come back from Avalon heavy maintenance the month before- everything was nice and newish inside (new A380 carpet was the only change) and although the seat covers were still blue, they were, at least... clean!

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 14):
I heard that comming home from work on the radio on Friday night, didnt QF want to get rid of its stake in FJ like 18 months ago I think I am sure there was a thread about it on here.

Yes QF wants to ditch their FJ holding, but there's a problem. Really, there's only one interested party (the Fijian Govt.) and obviously they don't agree on the price. So QF is forced to either retain it's unwanted holding, or sell it off cheap to wipe their hands of it.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: MilesDependent
Posted 2012-04-01 17:21:45 and read 17551 times.

Air Asia's first day into Sydney today. Today's flight is operated by 9M-XXG.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: Zkpilot
Posted 2012-04-01 17:33:29 and read 17578 times.

Quoting gemuser (Reply 24):
Quoting thegeek (Reply 19):
With that sort of time frame AJ needs to have a few runs on the board or he will be gone,

You think he doesn't have runs on the board? I bet the Board disagrees with you!
Runs:
All the Jetstars
The Grounding, yes that was runs on the board, it did far more good than bad!
Cost cutting
Network realignment
RedQ (still to come)

All of which are good things for the bottom line.

Gemuser

*All the Jetstars... most are losing money officially, Jetstar Oz is however...(that is if you believe the clever accounting).
*The Grounding... well lets see... it has cost close to $200m, is still subject to legal action, has resulted in a lot of frequent fliers jumping ship to other international carriers, and more locally to Virgin.... It has damaged workplace relations further, and done damage to the overall Qantas brand. Versus a claimed approx $40-50m (can't remember the exact number but its something like that) in costs from industrial action (a lot of those costs are of course made up from cancelling flights that were going to lose money anyway due to loads etc so it actually improves the balance sheet elsewhere).
*Cost cutting... yes always good to have a premium airline that looks and feels like a cheap costcut airline to its premium passengers...   Yes costs need to be cut/constrained, but there is a time and a place for that and the right areas to do this in... with high oil prices, this area is fuel burn... high oil prices have been with us for several years now and haven't been cheap for a decade so where are the 777s that would save 10-25% in terms of overall costs/fuel burn?
*Network realignment... cutting 2 LHR routes just before the peak holiday season/peak northern season/olympic games is genius!   not to mention if (and that is possibly a big if) the jetstar HKG goes ahead the feed that both the LHR flight and Jetstar HKG would both get from retaining that flight. BKK-LHR is less important, but 2 flights should not have been cut.
*RedQ... what a joke.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: mariner
Posted 2012-04-01 17:52:21 and read 17544 times.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 34):
*All the Jetstars... most are losing money officially, Jetstar Oz is however...(that is if you believe the clever accounting).

Jetstar Asia is losing money? This article is dated 28 March 2012:

http://www.businessday.com.au/busine...r-jetstar-asia-20120327-1vwgc.html

"Jetstar Asia is the Australian airline's biggest operation outside Australia. The Singaporean company posted a pre-tax profit of $S18 million ($A14 million) for the year to June, its biggest profit since it began service in 2004."

mariner

[Edited 2012-04-01 17:55:50]

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: koruman
Posted 2012-04-01 18:01:24 and read 17579 times.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 34):
All the Jetstars... most are losing money officially, Jetstar Oz is however...(that is if you believe the clever accounting).

I don't for a second believe that any of the Jetstars is a profitable enterprise in terms of international travel.

In fact, the travails of Air Asia X, with a significantly lower cost-base, have just reinforced my belief that the load percentages required to make profits by flying (all-discount economy) or (discount economy + low-yield non-lie-flat business) can only be achieved on short (Ryanair/Air Asia) sectors and not longer ones (Jetstar International/Air Asia X).

There is a niche for LCC short-haul travel.

But Friday's "The Australian" reported that in Australia the LCC market share has contracted from 19% to 11%.

I can see Jetstar as a low-yield short-haul subsidiary of Qantas. But nothing else.

And I think that on routes like SYD-HNL, Jetstar may be doing okay but has cannibalised Qantas and almost certainly delivers lower profits than Qantas could with an appropriate product (which would be a A330 configured something like 16 Business Skybeds / 36 Premium Economy / 240 Economy).

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: mariner
Posted 2012-04-01 18:15:55 and read 17547 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 36):
I don't for a second believe that any of the Jetstars is a profitable enterprise in terms of international travel.

I don't know what the caveat "in terms of international travel" means, but I know this from a year ago:

http://www.centreforaviation.com/ana...le-brand-in-the-qantas-group-45968

"Qantas’ 1HFY2011 financial results, released on 17-Feb-2011, revealed that Jetstar is an increasingly valuable unit of the Qantas Group, with the LCC offshoot close to overtaking Qantas as the carrier's most profitable brand.

Jetstar reported a record underlying EBIT of AUD143 million (USD143 million) in the six months to 31-Dec-2010, marking an 8% year-on-year increase, on revenue of AUD1.3 billion (USD1.3 billion, +19%). This resulted in an EBIT margin of 10.6% with revenue growth aided by strong ancillary revenue generation of above AUD20 per passengers."


I really don't know why people are so resistant to this.

mariner

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: gemuser
Posted 2012-04-01 18:32:12 and read 17532 times.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 34):
*All the Jetstars... most are losing money officially, Jetstar Oz is however...(that is if you believe the clever accounting).

Mariner in reply 35 & 37 has pretty well answered this.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 34):
*The Grounding... well lets see... it has cost close to $200m, is still subject to legal action, has resulted in a lot of frequent fliers jumping ship to other international carriers, and more locally to Virgin.... It has damaged workplace relations further, and done damage to the overall Qantas brand. Versus a claimed approx $40-50m (can't remember the exact number but its something like that) in costs from industrial action (a lot of those costs are of course made up from cancelling flights that were going to lose money anyway due to loads etc so it actually improves the balance sheet elsewhere).

Cash accounting only. In reality it brought stability, thereby creating a platform for recovery. The alternative was a slow bleeding to death. I believe that in the long run it will be seen as a very good management decision, by directors & shareholders, the only people who really count in this area.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 34):
*Cost cutting..
... with high oil prices, this area is fuel burn... high oil prices have been with us for several years now and haven't been cheap for a decade so where are the 777s that would save 10-25% in terms of overall costs/fuel burn?

But would cost 25% to 45% more in capex and introduction costs. We don't really know, but I belive QF would have ordered B777 IF it was ACTUALLY going to reduce TOTAL costs.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 34):
but 2 flights should not have been cut.

Why not? Obviously they were not making money or they wouldn't have been cut.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 34):
*RedQ... what a joke

It's not a joke, but long term planning, something Australian business, in general, is sadly lacking in. Get back to me 5 to 10 years about RedQ

Gemuser

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2012-04-01 19:18:08 and read 17471 times.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 34):
resulted in a lot of frequent fliers jumping ship to other international carriers, and more locally to Virgin

I would love it is someone could actually prove this. But of course they can't, because it's untrue. The most compelling "evidence" was along the lines of "my cousin's wife's step-father used to be QFFF Plat"...

Unfortunately I can't find the article I was looking for, but I remember reading in December that in the first month after the grounding 80% of their status flyers came back to Qantas.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 34):
Network realignment... cutting 2 LHR routes just before the peak holiday season/peak northern season/olympic games is genius!

Yes it is, when they are loosing money... What do you expect, QF to keep flying loss making routes at a loss?

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 34):
not to mention if (and that is possibly a big if) the jetstar HKG goes ahead the feed that both the LHR flight and Jetstar HKG would both get from retaining that flight

JQ HQ is supposed to be a stand alone operation, not a feeder.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 34):
(that is if you believe the clever accounting).

You couldn't resist could you? I'm still waiting on that evidence  
Quoting gemuser (Reply 38):
Get back to me 5 to 10 years about RedQ

The more I think about this the more I think the best option is a merger with SQ. Don't flame me!

The two have a begrudging respect for each other and actually have more to offer each other than would first meet the eye.

The benefits for QF are obvious and massive: cut all Europe flying (yes, even LHR) and get the Asia network they wanted. Keep HKG due to its strategic importance as one the most important financial centres in the world, along with SYD-PVG.

I've read many times that Australia is one of SQ's most profitable markets. Getting feed would make them a real force to be reckoned with. Yes they now have DJ, but that's just a glorified codeshare agreement and I'm sure there would be get out clauses in the contract. Among other things, with an effective Australian distribution network SilkAir could be viable to the likes of PHE a couple of times a week for mining related traffic.

The benefits of JQ to both should be apparent. Closing down Tiger and using SQ backing to expand JQ into a genuine pan-Asian carrier would make them a real force to be reckoned with,

If for no other reason for SQ involvement, once you cut the international baggage (excpet HKG, USA etc) you have a very profitable carrier which would be an attractive takeover target.

Finally, before anyone asks they would go OW. SQ basically don't have any agreements in place with any *A partners, and any alliance with CX and SQ (even if neither talk with anyone) would be pretty damn impressive!

And I'll stop dreaming now   

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: koruman
Posted 2012-04-01 19:54:13 and read 17425 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 36):
I don't for a second believe that any of the Jetstars is a profitable enterprise in terms of international travel
Quoting koruman (Reply 36):
In fact, the travails of Air Asia X, with a significantly lower cost-base, have just reinforced my belief that the load percentages required to make profits by flying (all-discount economy) or (discount economy + low-yield non-lie-flat business) can only be achieved on short (Ryanair/Air Asia) sectors and not longer ones (Jetstar International/Air Asia X).
Quoting mariner (Reply 37):
"Qantas’ 1HFY2011 financial results, released on 17-Feb-2011, revealed that Jetstar is an increasingly valuable unit of the Qantas Group, with the LCC offshoot close to overtaking Qantas as the carrier's most profitable brand.

Firstly, I'm not disputing that Jetstar can make money on all-economy 1 and 2 hour flights in eastern Australia.

But compare and contrast the links between SQ and Scoot relative to those between QF and Jetstar.

Scoot passengers cannot earn Singapore Airlines status or points even if they buy Business Class, whereas Jetstar ones emphatically can with Qantas.

The JQ Business Class product SYD-HNL is comparable to QF Premium Economy, but

a) JQ SYD-HNL in Business Class earns 140 Qantas Status Credits whereas
b) QF Premium Economy SYD-LAX is the same product but costs more, is 30% further yet only earns 90 Qantas Status Credits.

Similarly, a JQ Business Class fare SYD-HNL earns as many Qantas Status Credits as a Qantas Business Class fare on the same route, yet costs 1/3 the price.

In other words, Qantas Frequent Flyer is deliberately discriminating against Qantas passengers and in favour of Jetstar ones, as a tool to divert revenue from Qantas to Jetstar.

I find it hard to believe that such corporate deliberate self-harm is legal, but clearly it is.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: qf002
Posted 2012-04-01 20:34:25 and read 17343 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 30):
A parallel is Virgin Samoa

Not an example I had though of, but it's absolutely perfect...

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 34):
Network realignment... cutting 2 LHR routes just before the peak holiday season/peak northern season/olympic games is genius!

What's the addiction with the Olympics?!? Do you honestly think that there are that many people going to London for the Olympics for QF to justify retaining these flights? The peak holiday season in the Northern Hemisphere is virtually irrelevant to QF -- they are not a player in the market out of the UK or out of HKG. They are a small carrier from a small country (which very few people are coming to because it's the winter) who offers a single daily flight.

Quoting koruman (Reply 36):
But Friday's "The Australian" reported that in Australia the LCC market share has contracted from 19% to 11%.

Over what period? VA's ongoing work to get themselves out of the LCC bracket might well account for that entire contraction. JQ hasn't been getting any smaller, and TT is still soldiering on.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: thegeek
Posted 2012-04-01 20:37:55 and read 17334 times.

Quoting gemuser (Reply 24):
You think he doesn't have runs on the board? I bet the Board disagrees with you!
Runs:
All the Jetstars
The Grounding, yes that was runs on the board, it did far more good than bad!
Cost cutting
Network realignment
RedQ (still to come)

I'll concede The Grounding as doing more good than harm. Losing 20% of frequent fliers would be bad though if the "retaining 80%" figure above is correct.

Not sure why Allan Joyce gets credit for forming JQ & 3K? Wasn't that Dixon? Might have run JQ reasonably well though. Perhaps that's what you meant?

Cost cutting. I don't think his initiatives have done very much for CASK. Largely, ASK has been reduced. In fact lower CASK planes (A380s) have been deferred and QF will need to struggle on with 744s or have a smaller network for longer than previously envisaged. I also have a hard time swallowing that a 50% cut in LHR flights was needed. Surely part of the reason why these flights were underperforming was the mediocre connections. I agree with removing BKK-LHR, but perhaps reorient to SIN? I have the same difficulty with the 100% cut SYD-SFO. Surely maintaining a presence until more appropriate equipment arrived would have been money well spent.

Network realignment - Not sure what you mean by this. The only thing which is separate to your other points is the DFW flight, which I agree is a real winner. Got to give some credit for that one.

RedQ - It's not known yet how this will work. It seems high risk.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: koruman
Posted 2012-04-01 21:14:45 and read 17297 times.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 42):
RedQ - It's not known yet how this will work. It seems high risk

How can you say that?

There are lots of successful niche premium international airlines out there doing great business and putting pressure on the obsolete national carriers.

There's EOS, and Maxjet, and L'Avion and Silverjet. You can't argue with success like that.

Really, there's no role for Qantas as a brand at all.

RedQ + Jetstar = Eos + Ted = Maxjet + Song.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: mariner
Posted 2012-04-01 21:18:39 and read 17288 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 40):
Scoot passengers cannot earn Singapore Airlines status or points even if they buy Business Class, whereas Jetstar ones emphatically can with Qantas.

As you already know, I place little to no value on FF points/miles so I don't check the programs - and I'm the last person who ascribes value to 'em - but I'll take your word for it.

I'm searching desperately for some malign intent here, but I can't find one. For those who use FF's, I think it is a darn good reason to fly Jetstar instead of Scoot.

Quoting koruman (Reply 36):
But Friday's "The Australian" reported that in Australia the LCC market share has contracted from 19% to 11%.

I think that's a bit naughty, Koruman, because the headline to it explains exactly why it has happened.

It isn't that the LCC market has suddenly shriveled - it is that some volume of Virgin Australia's passengers are no longer counted as LCC.

I got quite terse about this last week when I was booking Virgin Australia domestic and found that I could no longer fly Premium Economy (the Tasman isn't domestic), it's either regular economy or business. So Virgin Australia has suddenly lost some of it's appeal to me.

mariner

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: thegeek
Posted 2012-04-01 21:21:39 and read 17285 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 43):
How can you say that?

What are you saying? That it isn't high risk to compete based in a different country with already strong competitors?

It seems that DJ disagree with you that there is no role for business class!

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: mariner
Posted 2012-04-01 21:22:56 and read 17294 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 43):
There's EOS, and Maxjet, and L'Avion and Silverjet. You can't argue with success like that.

None of the airlines you name were premium, full-service carriers - which Red Q is intended to be - although L'Avion was bought by Open Skies which is still flying.

mariner

[Edited 2012-04-01 21:36:57]

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: koruman
Posted 2012-04-01 21:41:08 and read 17287 times.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 45):
What are you saying? That it isn't high risk to compete based in a different country with already strong competitors?

It seems that DJ disagree with you that there is no role for business class!

I was being ironic!

On the NZ Aviation Board I spent most of the last five years arguing that the soundest business model for an airline in this part of the world is,,,,,precisely what John Borghetti is doing at Virgin Australia.

A single brand with on-board products covering the broadest possible market range. An airline in which staff morale and staff-customer interactions are prioritised. A single brand which doesn't exclude significant parts of the market by being all-economy (or all-business). A single brand which develops the widest possible portfolio of point-to-point services, with long-haul via not more than one hub.

So Virgin can offer one-stop Brisbane-Manchester, but Qantas can only offer two-stop via both SIN and LHR.

My only criticism of Virgin's virtual international network is that it offers few Premium Economy options. Apart from that it's very sound.

I have relatives visiting from the UK who flew in on Qantas and who are flying out of Cairns back to LHR, with Cairns-Darwin-Singapore on Jetstar.

How unnecessary. Couldn't those flights have had Qantas as the operator, with Qantas standards? In fact, couldn't Qantas cooperate with its OneWorld partner to codeshare on Cathay Pacific's CNS-HKG flight? Apparently not.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: koruman
Posted 2012-04-01 21:45:12 and read 17299 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 44):
I think that's a bit naughty, Koruman, because the headline to it explains exactly why it has happened.

It isn't that the LCC market has suddenly shriveled - it is that some volume of Virgin Australia's passengers are no longer counted as LCC.

Yes, I was one of them on Friday, when at the last minute I had to fly OOL-SYD-OOL.

I flew out on a Jetstar max ticket, will get points but no included food, drink or entertainment.

I flew back on a similar Virgin product and got included IFE and food and drink.

So the reason those Virgin passengers no longer count as LCC passengers is because they aren't LCC passengers.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: mariner
Posted 2012-04-01 21:51:22 and read 17274 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 48):
I flew back on a similar Virgin product and got included IFE and food and drink.

I'd love to know which class, because I wasn't offered it PER-MEL. The best I was offered was a quite expensive Flexi-fare (I'm paying for the goodies as on LCC) but which doesn't include any extra space unless I pay for it and even then it's a first come/first served basis.

I paid for it and then discovered that, at my age, even if it is available I may not be eligible - I will be "assessed" at the airport. Meanwhile, Virgin has my money for it.

Quoting koruman (Reply 48):
So the reason those Virgin passengers no longer count as LCC passengers is because they aren't LCC passengers

Exactly the point - at last.

mariner

[Edited 2012-04-01 21:56:35]

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2012-04-01 23:48:57 and read 17126 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 49):
The best I was offered was a quite expensive Flexi-fare (I'm paying for the goodies as on LCC) but which doesn't include any extra space

I think that's what he is referring to. I agree, I really don't see the point of Flexi on DJ: you're paying a vast amount more (often hundreds of dollars) and other than a (semi-)flexible fare the only benefits are getting for free what you would pay a negligible amount for on a Saver fare. $12 for luggage + $10 for a sandwich and coffee does not equal $150!

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: TruemanQLD
Posted 2012-04-02 00:31:48 and read 17074 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 36):
I don't for a second believe that any of the Jetstars is a profitable enterprise in terms of international travel.

Now there is a surprise...

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 34):
*All the Jetstars... most are losing money officially, Jetstar Oz is however...(that is if you believe the clever accounting).

Evidence, evidence, evidence... oh wait, there is none...

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 34):
*Network realignment... cutting 2 LHR routes just before the peak holiday season/peak northern season/olympic games is genius!  

Well it evidently is, or else QF wouldn't have done it. Some people on this forum tend to think QF just spin the globe and decide what routes to cut next, not exactly how it works... Also, they operate 2 A380's daily + connections with BA + they are getting some good money off leasing those slots, sounds good to me. They have been in the Oz-LHR market a long, long time so Im sure they know what they are doing (they meaning not just AJ, but a team of people)

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 39):
The more I think about this the more I think the best option is a merger with SQ. Don't flame me!

Agreed, think QF future is in a merger with an Asian carrier, SQ would be ideal. For those who say 'but SQ is with DJ', much larger partnerships have been given up before for mergers, so wouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately, still don't think it will happen. Would also allow SQ those much wanted SYD-LAX rights... and would make SQ/QF a very formidable force in SE Asia

Quoting koruman (Reply 43):
Really, there's no role for Qantas as a brand at all.

More surprises... but wait, one minute you think QF is being killed off, and next you are voting it to be killed off? Makes sense...

Quoting koruman (Reply 47):
On the NZ Aviation Board I spent most of the last five years arguing that the soundest business model for an airline in this part of the world is,,,,,precisely what John Borghetti is doing at Virgin Australia.

You are a genius, its a wonder they don't make you CEO  
Quoting koruman (Reply 47):
So Virgin can offer one-stop Brisbane-Manchester, but Qantas can only offer two-stop via both SIN and LHR.

Here we go again... Also 'Virgin' can't really offer it, SQ does, the entire way, there is not one point you are on DJ metal. You buy it through DJ sure, but who makes the money? SQ. But who makes the money on the BNE-SIN-LHR-MAN flights? QF makes the majority, and BA makes a small share.

Quoting koruman (Reply 47):
Virgin's virtual international network

Precisely, Virgins virtual network. Great in theory, but what if every airline adopts this approach? Doesn't end so well. And at the end of the day, DJ is taking no risk BUT won't make the big profits off International routes (which, admittedly QF isn't making at the moment, but is attempting to return to profitability)

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2012-04-02 00:37:03 and read 17092 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 47):
So Virgin can offer one-stop Brisbane-Manchester, but Qantas can only offer two-stop via both SIN and LHR.

No, VA can't offer you what you just stated in this example.

Its 2 partners only offer the following routings on flight you mentioned:

EY - BNE-SIN-AUH-MAN
SQ - BNE-SIN-MUC-MAN

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: qf002
Posted 2012-04-02 01:18:53 and read 17010 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 47):
So Virgin can offer one-stop Brisbane-Manchester, but Qantas can only offer two-stop via both SIN and LHR.
Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 52):

Damn you beat me to it...

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2012-04-02 01:25:51 and read 17017 times.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 53):
Damn you beat me to it...

haha.. sorry man.

Other news today I read in the AFR is that BR (EVA Air) are looking at re-starting SYD and increasing BNE services. Its entry into Star has broadened its focus and is now chasing more of the Australian market, especially the transfer pax to feed its network.

Will be interesting to see if a BNE increase is the catalyst for CI's departure from that route, given their reported struggles so far.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2012-04-02 01:33:33 and read 17014 times.

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 51):
DJ is taking no risk BUT won't make the big profits off International routes (which, admittedly QF isn't making at the moment, but is attempting to return to profitability)

I will give VA's approach the credit they deserve: they are not making a loss on international routes. Even if the revenue they earn on each ticket they sell as a glorified travel agent is negligible, it is still a (slight) profit. By having full FF reciprocity with SQ and EY (+ NZ and DL) they have made themselves a lot more viable contender for corporate traffic. They can offer long-haul flights to just about anywhere in the world with status accrual and your status recognised. Those passengers will then fly DJ domestic, which is the real money maker.

I know one person who is jumping QF to DJ for this reason: the benefits brought by SQ and EY outweigh the "inconvenience" of flying DJ domestic and losing QF7/8. The status matching exercise was ingenious because he got Velocity Platinum straight up. It will be interesting to see how many others follow.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: kiwiandrew
Posted 2012-04-02 12:38:22 and read 16650 times.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...iance/story-e6frg95x-1226316885002


VIRGIN Australia chief executive John Borghetti has no plans to join the massive Star Alliance and has questioned the future of huge global airline groupings.

He said yesterday that he had no intention of joining a global alliance.


This might quieten ( or increase! ) speculation for a while... interesting that he goes on to say that he doesn't rule out joining an alliance in the future, but that people shouldn't assume the relationship with SQ and NZ makes A* the only choice.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: eaglefarm4
Posted 2012-04-02 14:17:16 and read 16571 times.

EVA plan to do 6 or 7 charters to SYD in winter.I have the scheds if anyone wants them.

They plan to resume the Monday flight ex BNE.

From my contacts including Taiwan locals they prefer CI as it is cheaper.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: koruman
Posted 2012-04-02 15:25:13 and read 16527 times.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 52):
Quoting koruman (Reply 47):
So Virgin can offer one-stop Brisbane-Manchester, but Qantas can only offer two-stop via both SIN and LHR.

No, VA can't offer you what you just stated in this example.

Yes, I chose a pretty bad example. Should have said Brussels, Dusseldorf, Geneva, Moscow, Munich, Milan etc!

Having said that, I'd rather disembark and re-board the same aircraft at SIN or MUC instead of having to change at Heathrow, but I agree that I cited a lousy example.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 55):
I will give VA's approach the credit they deserve: they are not making a loss on international routes
http://www.virginaustralia.com/au/en...ia/2012/VAH-FINANCIAL-RESULT-2011/

It looks as if Virgin's virtual network is a more financially sound one than Qantas' actual long-haul mini-network.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 55):
Even if the revenue they earn on each ticket they sell as a glorified travel agent is negligible, it is still a (slight) profit.

Why would it be negligible? They presumably agree a wholesale price with Etihad and Singapore Airlines and then bump on an extra $200 for economy tickets and $500 - or even $1000 - for Business Class tickets. I would think that it is a fairly fool-proof way of making money on every ticket sold, as all the variables in terms of fuel prices and exceptional events are risks which have to be met by the operator, not the reseller.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: koruman
Posted 2012-04-02 15:31:05 and read 16532 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 48):
Yes, I was one of them on Friday, when at the last minute I had to fly OOL-SYD-OOL.

I flew out on a Jetstar max ticket, will get points but no included food, drink or entertainment.

I flew back on a similar Virgin product and got included IFE and food and drink.
Quoting mariner (Reply 49):
I'd love to know which class, because I wasn't offered it PER-MEL. The best I was offered was a quite expensive Flexi-fare (I'm paying for the goodies as on LCC) but which doesn't include any extra space unless I pay for it and even then it's a first come/first served basis.
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 50):
I really don't see the point of Flexi on DJ: you're paying a vast amount more (often hundreds of dollars) and other than a (semi-)flexible fare the only benefits are getting for free what you would pay a negligible amount for on a Saver fare. $12 for luggage + $10 for a sandwich and coffee does not equal $150!

Unfortunately I discovered at two days' notice that I had to attend meetings in Sydney from 930am to 4 pm on the penultimate day of daylight saving.

The only remaining Jetstar fares were highish (and I flew them OOL-SYD) and the Virgin ones were all Flexis, so I bought one back down at 5pm as I had no choice. I got a sandwich and a drink and a muesli bar for my trouble.

I wouldn't choose to buy a Virgin Flexi fare, but it was my only real option.

My original point was that the LCC market has shrunk: I think I paid around $200 for a one-hour one-way fare which included food, drink, IFE and baggage if I'd had any.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: mariner
Posted 2012-04-02 15:55:56 and read 16526 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 59):
The only remaining Jetstar fares were highish (and I flew them OOL-SYD) and the Virgin ones were all Flexis, so I bought one back down at 5pm as I had no choice. I got a sandwich and a drink and a muesli bar for my trouble.

I've listed my problems with Virgin Australia already - the only reason i didn't switch to Qantas was because I couldn't get a seat that day.

I'm flying AKL-PER on Air NZ (the website booking was as easy as can be) with a The Works fare which I thought was pretty reasonable. I get all the goodies and a guaranteed empty seat next to me.

I'm paying nearly as much on a Virgin Flexi fare for PER-MEL without even a guarantee of more space even though I've paid extra for it.

I won't bother to describe the problems I had because I want to spend a few days in MEL before flying home to AKL. I'll just say I;m not all that computer savvy and it was a problem.

So whatever your experiences with Virgin Australia - and my previous good experiences - I won't try 'em again until they've sorted themselves out.

Quoting koruman (Reply 59):
My original point was that the LCC market has shrunk:

I know that, but what has actually changed is the way the LCC market is defined. I would still regard Virgin Australia as LCC, and I think I'm paying more to get less.

mariner

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: eta unknown
Posted 2012-04-02 16:56:12 and read 16424 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 58):
Why would it be negligible? They presumably agree a wholesale price with Etihad and Singapore Airlines and then bump on an extra $200 for economy tickets and $500 - or even $1000 - for Business Class tickets

Don't assume the mark-ups are that high- you would be surprised how much the non-operating carrier has to remit back.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: Bluebird191
Posted 2012-04-02 17:51:09 and read 16358 times.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 54):
Other news today I read in the AFR is that BR (EVA Air) are looking at re-starting SYD and increasing BNE services. Its entry into Star has broadened its focus and is now chasing more of the Australian market, especially the transfer pax to feed its network.

Will be interesting to see if a BNE increase is the catalyst for CI's departure from that route, given their reported struggles so far.

Would be good to see them increase their services - 2x weekly definitely isn't enough to be overly competitive into BNE. I've looked at booking flights on BR previously (ended booking with SQ on my trip to Europe in September and October last year), and looked at them for a likely trip away from Australia for New Years (had been debating between Vancouver, Seattle and New York, but likely going to New Zealand now), but their connection times both ways to Europe and North America are shocking - if you are heading to London, you've got a 18 or 19 hour layover on the outbound sector, and only about 45 minutes coming back. Headed to North America, it's approx 18 hours in each direction, unless you are going to LAX, which makes the layovers much shorter due to their multiple daily flights there.

Having checked out their skeds and fares, I had been surprised to see a quoted price of $1,660 return BNE-TPE-(BKK)-LHR return, all inclusive - when I booked that trip in January last year I paid $2,000 return on SQ, and at the time EK, QF and CX were all asking $2,700 return (all have subsequently levelled out at roughly $2,200 to $2,350 return nowadays). If advertised and promoted well enough, BR could see a good increase in passenger numbers, but an increase in flights will need to happen to accommodate when pax would want to travel.

BR retimed their departures out of BNE early to mid last year, and now depart roughly 2230 or so, which gives both inbound and outbound flights excellent connections within Asia and LAX, but crap layover times elsewhere. There have been brief periods a few years back when BR operated 5 weekly flights into BNE for 2 to 3 months (2008-2009 period IIRC), and had a period of 1 weekly flight (can't remember exactly when).

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: Zkpilot
Posted 2012-04-02 19:02:58 and read 16299 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 39):

Unfortunately I can't find the article I was looking for, but I remember reading in December that in the first month after the grounding 80% of their status flyers came back to Qantas.

So conservatively they have lost 20% of their valuable frequent flyers... typically frequent flyers make up revenue-wise over half the revenue for premium airlines. So 20% of 50% (conservatively) is 10% of ongoing revenue instantly evaporated and compounded by it going to the main competitor.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 42):

I'll concede The Grounding as doing more good than harm. Losing 20% of frequent fliers would be bad though if the "retaining 80%" figure above is correct.

[checkmark]

In the medium term this figure could quite possibly become worse... reason? Frequent flyers that had never flown on VA previously were forced to by the grounding... result? many of them liked what they saw/experienced. They have to live out their corporate contracts but when these come up for renewal, guess who is likely to win at least a larger percentage of these contracts (the real money earners for the airlines)?

As a stand alone event it might have been insignificant in the grand scheme of things, however over the past year QF has spent more days grounded and/or large numbers of flights grounded than pretty much any airline in the world! Sure there were some natural disasters etc but other airlines operated when the ash cloud came a rolling, and didn't have 1/4 of their international seat capacity keeping the tarmac stands company for weeks either.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2012-04-02 19:18:22 and read 16277 times.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 63):
So conservatively they have lost 20% of their valuable frequent flyers... typically frequent flyers make up revenue-wise over half the revenue for premium airlines. So 20% of 50% (conservatively) is 10% of ongoing revenue instantly evaporated and compounded by it going to the main competitor.

That was in the first month. I believe the gap is now almost nonexistent, but again I couldn't find anything official.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 63):
Frequent flyers that had never flown on VA previously were forced to by the grounding... result? many of them liked what they saw/experienced

If my experiences are anything to go by they will be back at the first IRROPS.

I have been very unlucky with DJ given that of my 10 flights with them, 8 have been delayed over an hour. 3 of those were due to "late arrival of the inbound aircraft" (i.e. their 30 min turns don't allow any slack for the unforeseen) and one (my personal favourite) "we haven't got any pilots".

The other four were legitimate delays of between 4 and 8 hours. I do not blame DJ at all for the fact those flights were delayed/canceled. What I do blame them for is the absolutely diabolical manner in which they handled the delays (all 8). I wont start ranting, but it fell far short of what I would reasonably expect (which isn't much - maybe a drinks voucher?). What was most telling was the 4 weather-related delays, as every single flight was canceled I got to observe how Qantas dealt with the situation compared to Virgin.

The short straw: I now refuse to fly Virgin.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: smi0006
Posted 2012-04-02 20:44:39 and read 16172 times.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 54):
Other news today I read in the AFR is that BR (EVA Air) are looking at re-starting SYD and increasing BNE services. Its entry into Star has broadened its focus and is now chasing more of the Australian market, especially the transfer pax to feed its network.

There has been significant growth in the Melbourne Taiwan market of the recent years, would this combined with transfer traffic be an impetus for BR to start services into MEL at some point? Doesn't look like we have many new carriers on the horizon here so new tail is always nice.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: AusA380
Posted 2012-04-02 21:22:23 and read 16136 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 64):
I have been very unlucky with DJ given that of my 10 flights with them, 8 have been delayed over an hour. 3 of those were due to "late arrival of the inbound aircraft"

My experience has been the opposite - of my last lot of DJ flights, they have with one exception been on time or early. The one late was due to inbound and made up time inflight so wasn't so bad.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: thegeek
Posted 2012-04-02 21:40:28 and read 16093 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 64):
(my personal favourite) "we haven't got any pilots".

I liked that one too when it happened to me.

What really irked me is that they didn't think to send me a text so I didn't have to bum around Sydney Airport for 2 hours while the pilots flew down from Brisbane.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2012-04-02 21:52:54 and read 16123 times.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 67):
(my personal favourite) "we haven't got any pilots".

I liked that one too when it happened to me.

What really irked me is that they didn't think to send me a text so I didn't have to bum around Sydney Airport for 2 hours while the pilots flew down from Brisbane.

I was booked to fly CBR-SYD-BNE with DJ. My flight was scheduled to leave at 9:30, and was canceled at 10:00. At 1:30 I was finally rebooked CBR-MEL-BNE. Given the weather related nature of the delay I had been very understanding at CBR (even if ***** off about the efficiency of QF's rebooking people vis-a-vis DJ) and even listened understandingly to the GA bitch about what an awful day she was having while she rebooked me. But when I got to MEL and discovered my flight was delayed because of crew shortages that was the moment I vowed never to go back. I went up to the desk and asked the GA if I'd heard the announcement right, and calmly said "I was supposed to have arrived in Brisbane 7 hours ago". He just shrugged his shoulders and turned to start a conversation with his colleague. A simple "sorry" would have been nice. It took me 14 hours to get from Canberra to Brisbane that day, it would almost have been quicker to drive.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: byronicle6
Posted 2012-04-02 23:28:24 and read 15992 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 36):
In fact, the travails of Air Asia X, with a significantly lower cost-base, have just reinforced my belief that the load percentages required to make profits by flying (all-discount economy) or (discount economy + low-yield non-lie-flat business) can only be achieved on short (Ryanair/Air Asia) sectors and not longer ones (Jetstar International/Air Asia X).

And it was you a few weeks ago proposing Long haul JQ services from OOL & CNS - LAX

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: QF175
Posted 2012-04-03 02:51:42 and read 15803 times.

EVA Air schedules for Sydney are now available on the Airline's website.

TPE/SYD 22:30L/09:50L+1 BR311 Mon/Thu
SYD/TPE 11:20L/18:50L BR312 Tue/Fri

Services will be operated by A330-200s.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: Sydscott
Posted 2012-04-03 21:23:39 and read 15402 times.

I thought I would share this article compairng the trials and tribulation of Air Canada to Qantas. Interesting read.

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/...0120404-SZS8A?opendocument&src=rss

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2012-04-03 21:45:01 and read 15357 times.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 71):
I thought I would share this article compairng the trials and tribulation of Air Canada to Qantas. Interesting read.

Thank you very much for posting, it is indeed an interesting read. As the article says, the parallels between QF and AC are, at face value, strong. However, I hadn't really understood the scale of AC entrenched issues vis-a-vis QF. Whatever some of us have said before, it is clear that QF management have something of a plan for the future (even if it is JQ-centric) whereas AC management is simply trying to stop the reigns from slipping out of its hands, and is therefore simply reactionary rather than creating an alternative vision for the future.

I am going to say this, and I fully expect to be flamed by some members. BUT, if this is the alternative then kudos to Alan Joyce. I may not have agreed with every decision he has made, but at least QF is profitable and we actually have something of an idea about what the carrier's future is.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: gemuser
Posted 2012-04-03 21:53:44 and read 15350 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 72):
. BUT, if this is the alternative then kudos to Alan Joyce. I may not have agreed with every decision he has made, but at least QF is profitable and we actually have something of an idea about what the carrier's future is.

Exactly the point I was trying to make in Reply 38, although I hadn't realised the points re AC made in the article.

Gemuser

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: Sydscott
Posted 2012-04-04 00:10:02 and read 15204 times.

Quoting gemuser (Reply 73):
Exactly the point I was trying to make in Reply 38, although I hadn't realised the points re AC made in the article.

There is another article behind their subscription wall hypothesising that what Qantas is creating is essentially a head company of Intellectual Capital that will eventually just be a brand Management Entity with multiple Airline Operating entities below it.

It fits with the current Qantas strategy if we look at Jetconnect, Jetstar Australia, Jetstar Asia, Jetstar Japan, Jetstar Hong Kong, Jetstar Pacific, Qantas, Network Aviation, Qantas Frequent Flyer, Wishlist etc etc.

As an organisation Qantas is still quite beaurocratic so it'll be interesting too see what happens in relation to devolving head office power to the subsidiaries and Managers. For example, if QF were to set Jetconnect up properly in Auckland and move Jetconnect crew planning, scheduling, HR etc over there and then have them interact with smaller overhead departments in Sydney we will know what the end game is. It could actually revolutionise the Qantas Corporate Office to do this and have the same overall numbers spread over competing airlines. The ideas they would generate in competition with each other for Capital from the Head Company would definitely make it interesting.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: TruemanQLD
Posted 2012-04-04 00:24:11 and read 15183 times.

Maybe QF should buy AC then launch JQ Canada   Of course I doubt that would happen, but it is sad to see AC in such a way, I have only good things to say about flying with them. Trying not to get too off topic, maybe the future for AC would be in a partnership with a US airline (i.e. UA/AC or AA/AC). I hope we don't lose the direct YVR-SYD flight

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: gemuser
Posted 2012-04-04 02:06:24 and read 15015 times.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 74):
As an organisation Qantas is still quite beaurocratic so it'll be interesting too see what happens in relation to devolving head office power to the subsidiaries and Managers

But that was exactly what AJ (& Dixon, IMHO more AJ) did with JQ, he stopped the QF bureaucracy interfering with JQ and is one main reason JQ has been successful. He, of course, had the support of the Group CEO & BOD. So one would expect that he could do that with other subsidiaries.

Gemuser

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: QF175
Posted 2012-04-04 05:13:42 and read 14920 times.

Skytrans has confirmed its new Toowoomba - Sydney service will commence 02JUL. Schedule is as follows:

TWB/SYD 07:15L/09:30L Q60014 Mon/Wed/Thu
SYD/TWB 10:15L/12:30L Q60015 Mon/Wed/Thu

TWB/SYD 13:45L/16:00L Q60016 Tue/Wed/Fri
SYD/TWB 16:45L/19:00L Q60017 Tue/Wed/Fri

Once daily Monday through Friday with a second service on Wednesdays. Services will be operated by a Dash-8 300 which is expected to be based in Toowoomba.

Fares start at $149 each way.

Cheers

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: QF175
Posted 2012-04-04 05:33:32 and read 14914 times.

James Hogan (Etihad CEO) was quoted in today's TravelWeekly as saying that Etihad plans to increase Brisbane from 3x weekly to daily within the next 12 months and also launch Perth within the next 2 years.

Have heard this all before though!

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2012-04-04 06:55:54 and read 14812 times.

Quoting QF175 (Reply 78):
Have heard this all before though!

Re BNE I'll believe it when the additional frequencies touch at BNE! I think I've heard this at least 5 times since 2009.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: QF175
Posted 2012-04-04 07:00:41 and read 14841 times.

It appears Delta 767-300ER/WL (76W) N196DN made an appearance in Darwin the night of 03JUL. Local media reports made mention that the flight brought in around 200 US Marines.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Miguel Martin Cordeiro - Iberian Spotters



I recently came across an old Strategic Airlines/Air Australia (now defunct for those that are unaware) route map that highlighted the Airline's planned/proposed routes - below is a snapshot as to what routes were being looked at (to complement the existing Port Hedland, Derby, Phuket, Denpasar/Bali services etc) not long after they launched RPT services as a full service carrier:

* Brisbane - Karratha
* Brisbane - Newman
* Brisbane - Emerald
* Brisbane - Kota Kinabalu
* Brisbane - Honolulu (was briefly served)
* Brisbane - Ho Chi Minh City
* Townsville - Auckland
* Perth - Kota Kinabalu
* Perth - Phuket
* Melbourne - Ho Chi Minh City
* Melbourne - Denpasar/Bali
* Sydney - Denpasar/Bali
* Adelaide - Denpasar/Bali

Newman and Karratha would have been great routes for the A320s - that's where the big bucks are made!

[Edited 2012-04-04 07:26:51]

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2012-04-04 07:12:30 and read 14789 times.

Quoting QF175 (Reply 80):
It appears Delta 767-300ER/WL (76W) N196DN made an appearance in Darwin the night of 03JUL

There was also a DL 767 in CBR and DRW in November as part of the Obama party. I posted the rego at the time, but it was definitely a different frame because it was N followed by a sequence of numbers with no letters.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: Bluebird191
Posted 2012-04-04 13:41:16 and read 14721 times.

Quoting QF175 (Reply 78):

James Hogan (Etihad CEO) was quoted in today's TravelWeekly as saying that Etihad plans to increase Brisbane from 3x weekly to daily within the next 12 months and also launch Perth within the next 2 years.

Have heard this all before though!

I wonder if they'll keep the stop in SIN or change it to a non-stop routing, if it eventually happens. Non-stop would
be ideal, mainly to compete with the likes of EK, but who knows.

I guess we'll just wait and see what happens.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: eaglefarm4
Posted 2012-04-04 14:12:06 and read 14692 times.

Mayby a mixture of non stop and via SIN.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: Sydscott
Posted 2012-04-04 15:27:13 and read 14662 times.

Thought of the day - If the 787 had been delivered on time Qantas & Jetstar would currently have 43 of them in it's fleet.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2012-04-04 16:11:13 and read 14615 times.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 84):
If the 787 had been delivered on time Qantas & Jetstar would currently have 43 of them in it's fleet.

Why did Qantas never order the 777?         

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: 747m8te
Posted 2012-04-04 17:07:52 and read 14561 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 85):
Quoting Sydscott (Reply 84):If the 787 had been delivered on time Qantas & Jetstar would currently have 43 of them in it's fleet.

Why did Qantas never order the 777?

...because it should have already had 43 787s in its fleet by now...lol

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: eaglefarm4
Posted 2012-04-04 18:14:51 and read 14507 times.

WHY didn't they have plan B then which would have been a sign of sound management.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: mariner
Posted 2012-04-04 18:31:44 and read 14501 times.

Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 87):
WHY didn't they have plan B then which would have been a sign of sound management.

The problem is not the delay, but the incremental nature of the various delays.

If Boeing had come flat out and said they didn't have it together and there would be a three or four (or five?) year delay, everyone would have known where they stood and could have made other arrangements.

It didn't happen like. It was six months, and the another six months and then another, and eventually there comes a point when alternate arrangements are as unproductive as waiting.

In fact, Qantas did make other minor arrangements, with the A330's - and I wish it had ordered a big bunch more - but it seems it is hard for airlines to break their addiction to the 787. Air New Zealand has admitted that their delays have cost it, in terms of competitive opportunities, but they haven't wavered, they're prepared to wait for their fix.

I hope it is worth it, I hope the 787 is everything everyone wants it to be, but I regard these last three or four years as years of lost opportunity.

mariner

[Edited 2012-04-04 18:35:35]

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: jrfspa320
Posted 2012-04-04 19:27:43 and read 14459 times.

Did the Delta 767 fly direct to DRW from HNL? Must be a pretty long flight for a 767....
Did the same crew take the plane back?

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2012-04-04 19:38:39 and read 14448 times.

Quoting jrfspa320 (Reply 89):
Did the Delta 767 fly direct to DRW from HNL? Must be a pretty long flight for a 767....
Did the same crew take the plane back?

HNL-DRW is only 300mi longer than HNL-SYD and is shorter than JFK-CAI so it shouldn't have had any problems.

I can only comment on the November run but the aircraft flew HNL-CBR nonstop, the crew overnighted and then flew CBR-DRW-DPS. I presume it would be the same when it brought the marines in.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: Sydscott
Posted 2012-04-04 20:38:23 and read 14407 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 88):
In fact, Qantas did make other minor arrangements, with the A330's - and I wish it had ordered a big bunch more -

Entirely agreed! If I was QF I'd have ordered at least double the number of A332's that they currently have and would be well on the way to not only replacing the domestic 767's but also expanding p2p opportunities until the 787 arrives to takeover.

Quoting mariner (Reply 88):
I hope it is worth it, I hope the 787 is everything everyone wants it to be

We'll soon see. Apparently ANA is happy with them so lets if JAL has the same view after a few months of operations. It'll be really interesting when UAL receives its first 787's for IAH-AKL and IAH-Nigeria to hear what the think of the 787's as well.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: thegeek
Posted 2012-04-04 22:01:11 and read 14302 times.

Quoting QF175 (Reply 77):
TWB/SYD 07:15L/09:30L Q60014 Mon/Wed/Thu
SYD/TWB 10:15L/12:30L Q60015 Mon/Wed/Thu

TWB/SYD 13:45L/16:00L Q60016 Tue/Wed/Fri
SYD/TWB 16:45L/19:00L Q60017 Tue/Wed/Fri

That's an odd schedule. I thought Wednesday was a low demand day. So is Sat, but still... Not that convenient on Fridays heading out of TWB either.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: QF175
Posted 2012-04-04 22:43:18 and read 14288 times.

Quoting QF175 (Reply 80):
Newman and Karratha would have been great routes for the A320s - that's where the big bucks are made!

Qantas announced this morning that it will commence once weekly 737-800 services between Sydney and Newman effective 15MAY12.

Schedule appears to be as follows:

SYD/ZNE 06:15/09:30 QF987 Tue
ZNE/SYD 10:10/16:10 QF988 Tue

Introductory fares start at $249 one way

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: QF175
Posted 2012-04-04 22:48:09 and read 14271 times.

Quoting jrfspa320 (Reply 89):
Did the Delta 767 fly direct to DRW from HNL? Must be a pretty long flight for a 767....
Did the same crew take the plane back?

The 767 operated Guam - Darwin on 03APR and then departed almost 24 hours later last night to Tokyo (Narita).

It's only 6.5 hours from Darwin to Tokyo and around 4 from Guam to Darwin.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: TN486
Posted 2012-04-05 05:53:12 and read 13947 times.

For all of you who celebrate Easter, enjoy with you and yours, keep safe, cheers.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: QF175
Posted 2012-04-06 08:15:18 and read 13641 times.

Virgin Australia's first new-build A330-200 VH-XFC has finally touched down in Melbourne tonight, after making the long journey from Toulouse and Kuala Lumpur.

Looking forward to seeing the much rumoured new product (2x2x2 in J and 'red' IFE I understand) that is supposedly featured on this aircraft.

Quoting TN486 (Reply 95):
For all of you who celebrate Easter, enjoy with you and yours, keep safe, cheers.

     

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: eaglefarm4
Posted 2012-04-06 14:39:03 and read 13487 times.

Virgin commenced a 3rd weekday BNE-EMD flight last Monday with the ATR.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: mariner
Posted 2012-04-06 17:52:37 and read 13349 times.

I haven't seen this posted, but if it has been, let me know and I'll ask for deletion.

Jetstar Japan receives it's AOC:

http://www.centreforaviation.com/ana...-build-new-low-cost-terminal-71315

"Jetstar Japan, a low cost airline joint venture between Qantas subsidiary Jetstar and Japan Airlines, received its Air Operator’s Certificate on 06-Apr-2012 from Japan’s regulatory authority the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport (MLIT). The AOC will ensure Jetstar can achieve its recently announced launch of 03-Jul-2012, significantly ahead of the Dec-2012 launch date given when the carrier was announced last year. Next Jetstar Japan will commence proving flights and start ticket sales."

mariner

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: ZKOKQ
Posted 2012-04-07 05:17:27 and read 12995 times.

Hi guys. Does anyone have any updates on the expansion planned for BNE?

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: eaglefarm4
Posted 2012-04-07 13:58:04 and read 12865 times.

It has gone quiet on the pavillion expansion at the domestic so i would expect that, as well as the extension of the Qantas terminal around to the north to be the next 2 stages to be built.Extension of the domestic apron to the north is just awaiting on the sand to settle and should be able to accept a extra 10 aircraft by mid late 2013.

Of course the biggest single car park in the southern hemisphere has just opened as well as the new walkway.

At the international the apron is also being expanded to the north to take a extra 2 heavies or 4 x 737's.Then the terminal concourse will also be extended with extra A380 gates.

Prelim work such as clearing has already commenced on the new runway which will take 7 years to build.

The Export Park stage3 is continuing with DHL ready for a major expansion.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: ZuluAlpha
Posted 2012-04-07 16:26:30 and read 12785 times.

Quoting ZKOKQ (Reply 99):
Does anyone have any updates on the expansion planned for BNE?
Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 100):

I know that this isn't an airport expansion directly, but QF is also building is new catering facilities between the Domestic and the International terminals.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: ZKOKQ
Posted 2012-04-08 02:13:29 and read 12696 times.

Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 100):

Thanks heaps for that. Been a while since I have been down to have a look at BNE. Will be departing there in two weeks so will see some of the work then

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-04-08 05:01:51 and read 12541 times.

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 101):
I know that this isn't an airport expansion directly, but QF is also building is new catering facilities between the Domestic and the International terminals.

Which will be first of it's kind state of the art catering facilities... Happy to share with those interested...

EK413

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: smi0006
Posted 2012-04-08 09:41:08 and read 12439 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 103):
Which will be first of it's kind state of the art catering facilities... Happy to share with those interested...

I'm Curious; Whats new and different? WIll SYD, PER or MEL be getting an upgrade? Do they even have catering centres there?

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-04-09 07:39:19 and read 11953 times.

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 104):
I'm Curious; Whats new and different? WIll SYD, PER or MEL be getting an upgrade? Do they even have catering centres there?

Sorry about the late response...

The facilities will be built at cost of $72 million dollars and a joint venture with DHL... Not the link I was searching but it will give you an idea...

http://www.laingorourke.com.au/news/...-high-with-qantas-catering-project

If these new facilities bring QF the savings I certainly see the SYD, MEL, PER centres follow....

EK413

[Edited 2012-04-09 07:49:15]

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: eaglefarm4
Posted 2012-04-09 14:27:59 and read 11873 times.

The Qantas catering centre needed to be built as the old one was in the road of the future domestic terminal expansion to the north.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-04-09 15:51:57 and read 11810 times.

Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 106):

Well aware of the old centre being located / built on land where the new runway would be built, however Qantas saw this as an opportunity to build a new and improved centre with new processes...

EK413

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: Bluebird191
Posted 2012-04-10 14:45:12 and read 11325 times.

Looks like Virgin Australia has purchased 10% of SkyWest for $8 million. Here's the link: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...-deal/story-e6frg95x-1226323257292

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-04-11 05:24:43 and read 10951 times.

Another QF B744 off to the desert VH-OJO will depart SYD 17/04 @ 1410 operating as QF6021 SYD-VCV...

I witnessed her today parked at the Qantas Jetbase "pond" minus the famous Roo, socceroo stickers & QF titles...

EK413

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: eaglefarm4
Posted 2012-04-11 14:39:08 and read 10719 times.

EK413 I would suggest the situation of having to move the complex was the catalyst for building a new improved catering building.

By the way the new runway is no where near the current building, as i said before, the extension of the terminal to the north will run into this building.The AAE buildings slightly north of the current Qantas catering will have the new taxiway slice through them and they are moving down to the Export Park.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: bananaboy
Posted 2012-04-12 23:40:37 and read 10204 times.

Saw a Travel Service 737 sitting at one Gate 59 or 60 at the international terminal today.

Any idea who is using it?

Mark

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: eaglefarm4
Posted 2012-04-12 23:44:50 and read 10181 times.

Just a tour Group bananaboy.Doing a round the world trip.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: qf002
Posted 2012-04-13 08:41:01 and read 9933 times.

AusBT is reporting that the new VA A332's will be fitted with lie flat seating in J and VA's international grade 'Red' IFE system. According to the article, one aircraft arrived late last week, the other arrives in just under 2 weeks time.

MEL-PER Coast-to-Coast services start on May 14th, and VA will introduce a morning A332 shuttle flying MEL-SYD-MEL each morning. For details, see the article here.

Personally, I think this sends a clear message that VA will be starting services to Asia on the A330 soon. Lie flats are total overkill for domestic services, even transcontinental ones. The fact that the first two aircraft aren't slated for upgrades suggests to me that they will remain on domestic service longer term, perhaps complemented by further deliveries down the track. Will be interesting to see these soon! Hopefully the stupid new leaf design seat covers will not be making an appearance!!!

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: eaglefarm4
Posted 2012-04-13 14:58:02 and read 9850 times.

One of the 2 BNE-ASP flights changes to a 717 today so they can rotate the 717's for maintenance thru ASP onto PER.

VH-NXQ is making it's first flight to BNE according to Flight Aware.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: alangirvan
Posted 2012-04-13 16:38:41 and read 9757 times.

Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 114):
One of the 2 BNE-ASP flights changes to a 717 today so they can rotate the 717's for maintenance thru ASP onto PER.

Reminds us of the days that East West had F-28s in WA, flying from Perth to Port Hedland and Karratha, and those aircraft ferried back to the East through Ayers Rock Airport once weekly for maintenance. They offered quite a nice air fare on those once weekly flights.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2012-04-13 21:40:01 and read 9568 times.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 113):
Personally, I think this sends a clear message that VA will be starting services to Asia on the A330 soon. Lie flats are total overkill for domestic services, even transcontinental ones. The fact that the first two aircraft aren't slated for upgrades suggests to me that they will remain on domestic service longer term, perhaps complemented by further deliveries down the track. Will be interesting to see these soon! Hopefully the stupid new leaf design seat covers will not be making an appearance!!!

Tend to agree that the product is overkill for the Domestic market (except maybe East Coast-PER flights), however it would be interesting to see what it has in mind for the longer ter with its A330 fleet.

It already has substantial partnerships with SQ in Asia for instance, which may well override any need to servce markets with its own planes.

I could see an attempt at SYD-HKG to possibly replace VS, and maybe also a MEL-HKG service, with the possibility of the A330's replacing the B737's on most MEL/SYD/BNE-DPS flights. A move into mainland China would be a possibility, but still a risky one, especially when SQ has substantial serice there already.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: alangirvan
Posted 2012-04-13 21:49:36 and read 9562 times.

They could already use A332s into DPS - just sub the domestic configuration planes onto Saturday services. Saturday would be a peak day for travel to Bali, and Saturday evening is usually a quiet time for domestic travel. Lie flat Business seats would be overkill for Bali, as well.

They have said that they are not going to do BNE-AUH, and maybe EY will move to do all the frequencies on that sector, but the A332s would be good for that, if they do not think it is essential to operate it as a non stop. If they are getting HGW A332s, perhaps it could be Virgin who does PER-AUH rather than EY when that becomes a market that Virgin/Etihad wants to serve.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: anstar
Posted 2012-04-13 21:53:40 and read 9552 times.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 116):
I could see an attempt at SYD-HKG to possibly replace VS,

I doubt - VS have already made noises that if VA started this route they would view them as a competitor rather than a partner.

BNE-HKG/MEL-HKG is more likely to hook up with VS service from HKG-LHR.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2012-04-13 21:59:47 and read 9546 times.

Quoting anstar (Reply 118):
I doubt - VS have already made noises that if VA started this route they would view them as a competitor rather than a partner.

They have since signed a codeshare agreement on the route. Things may have changed.

A MEL/BNE-HKG would be a possibility, but we will see what happens. JB still seems quite SYD-centric in his approach also, so I would expect most of the moves to be made from there to attack QF. Mind you, VA is to be seperated, with a new board, to allow for more more investment in DJ to occur. Will be interesting to see how that all transpires.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: qf002
Posted 2012-04-13 22:45:48 and read 9501 times.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 116):

NRT (or HND) could be a strong possibility IMO. QF seems to make a killing off Japan, and even JL's flights are going out full in both classes most of the year.

What about taking over NZ's AKL-PER?? This seems to be a perfect A332 route, and the red eye timings out of PER would justifythe lie flat J seats. The only issue would be the potential diversion of feed away from VA's own LAX flights...

The only counter argument to international services is the lack of W seating. This would be easy to add in 12-18 months though, whereas a full refit of J would be far more complicated. It will be interesting to see which Y product they use -- I think this will be the real giveaway.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-04-14 00:54:09 and read 9374 times.

Quoting bananaboy (Reply 111):

I saw this aircraft parked on a remote stand near Hawker Pacific / Universal Aviation...

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 119):

Why do we continue referring to VA with the DJ code...? I was under the impression DJ was to be dropped...

EK413

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: 9MMPD
Posted 2012-04-14 01:20:56 and read 9354 times.

Article in this morning's West Australian Travel section indicates Etihad may start services to Perth as soon as November this year.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/tra...a/-/travel/13405464/skies-open-up/

We will have to wait to see if this comes to fruition as Etihad as stated for a long time there intentions to serve Perth.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-04-14 02:02:58 and read 9307 times.

Quoting 9MMPD (Reply 122):

Can PER sustain 3 middle eastern carriers with the city already served by EK, QR and now EY....

EK413

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: Bluebird191
Posted 2012-04-14 03:45:57 and read 9198 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 121):
Why do we continue referring to VA with the DJ code...? I was under the impression DJ was to be dropped...

.

It will happen, only a matter of 2 weeks or so - I was talking to one of the cabin crew on my BNE-CNS flight yesterday (was the only pax in biz class, and only 45 in economy on the 737-800), and he was saying that the DJ code will be dropped and the VA code replacing it across the board.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 113):
AusBT is reporting that the new VA A332's will be fitted with lie flat seating in J and VA's international grade 'Red' IFE system. According to the article, one aircraft arrived late last week, the other arrives in just under 2 weeks time.

Same flight and F/A as above and he confirmed the above, biz seating as 2-2-2, and the clincher - he said it also has wi-fi. He also commented a few Boeings and Embraers are already fittes with it (he wasn't sure of the rego's).

On another note, the only 737-800 in DJ's fleet with the old premium economy product is due to be returned to the lessor within 2 months - the aircraft is VH-VOD. The same F/A commented that due to its age and imminent return to the lessor meant that spending a few hundred thousand dollars on the refit was uneconomical.

No mention of the E170's in their inflight mag - must be all gone. The refurbs on the E190's have started - one at the moment has the new biz class of 1-2, where the old config has the biz class as the 2-2 premium economy but with the aisle seat not being sold to make it essentially 1-1.

[Edited 2012-04-14 03:48:11]

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: byronicle6
Posted 2012-04-14 04:31:10 and read 9134 times.

What about using the A332's to resume HKT from BNE & MEL? From what i heard the route was doing well, just the 77W was the wrong aircraft for the route. And because Air Australia is now history, it seems the perfect time to do so

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2012-04-14 07:33:56 and read 8999 times.

^^ The SQ network can cater to that kind of route without having to throw it's own resources at it.

HKG and NRT/HND would appear to be stronger markets to target if they really wanted to.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: aussie747
Posted 2012-04-15 02:27:46 and read 8712 times.

Quoting Bluebird191 (Reply 124):
Quoting EK413 (Reply 121):Why do we continue referring to VA with the DJ code...? I was under the impression DJ was to be dropped....It will happen, only a matter of 2 weeks or so - I was talking to one of the cabin crew on my BNE-CNS flight yesterday (was the only pax in biz class, and only 45 in economy on the 737-800), and he was saying that the DJ code will be dropped and the VA code replacing it across the board.

This will happen sometime around as early as July as late as December when both airlines (i say both at the current time - in terms of system integration) as operate on the same platform although the latest i heard was around the end of October, however I hear rumblings things are running ahead of schedule. Hope that helps.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: Flyingsottsman
Posted 2012-04-15 02:52:05 and read 8665 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 123):
Can PER sustain 3 middle eastern carriers with the city already served by EK, QR and now EY....

Hi EK I think it can just like us here on the East Coast, I reacon the people of Perth would prefer A direct flight rather than a 2 stop flight to Europe/LHR.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: vaustralie
Posted 2012-04-15 03:58:11 and read 8566 times.

Hey guys
It's been a while since I posted but I've had sometime bugging me all day.
At about 3:45 this afternoon a bigish plane landed at CBR . And the only marking I saw was on its tail .. It was all white but had a red vertical line on the tail and a green "blob" underneath the line.
It made a bit of noise coming in but I was at work and couldn't leave but saw the tail through the window
Does anybody have any idea...? Thanks :3

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: QF175
Posted 2012-04-15 04:09:02 and read 8574 times.

Quoting vaustralie (Reply 129):

Hey guys
It's been a while since I posted but I've had sometime bugging me all day.
At about 3:45 this afternoon a bigish plane landed at CBR . And the only marking I saw was on its tail .. It was all white but had a red vertical line on the tail and a green "blob" underneath the line.
It made a bit of noise coming in but I was at work and couldn't leave but saw the tail through the window
Does anybody have any idea...? Thanks :3

Hi vaustralie. Middle East Airlines (MEA) A330-200 F-ORMA touched down in Canberra this afternoon  

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jens Breuer

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: Bluebird191
Posted 2012-04-15 04:19:41 and read 8535 times.

Quoting aussie747 (Reply 127):
This will happen sometime around as early as July as late as December when both airlines (i say both at the current time - in terms of system integration) as operate on the same platform although the latest i heard was around the end of October, however I hear rumblings things are running ahead of schedule. Hope that helps.

Interesting - vastly different timeframes indicated by all over the place. I guess we'll all just wait to see when it does happen, but DJ's business class F/A on my flight to CNS on Friday (DJ785) indicated "within 2 weeks".

Who knows - I'll just wait and be patient to see when it happens.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: vaustralie
Posted 2012-04-15 04:36:12 and read 8507 times.

Quoting QF175 (Reply 130):


Cheers QF175
Do you know why it's here ? And for how long? I might go grab some pics tomorrow morning if it's still here!

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-04-15 04:58:39 and read 8471 times.

Quoting aussie747 (Reply 127):

Cheers, it baffled me til now why the 2 brands still existed when the rebranding was to streamline the 2 into 1...

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 128):

I gave it some thought after I raised the question and your pretty spot on the mark...

EK413

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2012-04-15 05:29:23 and read 8424 times.

I would suspect that there may well be a reduction in PER flights by Asian airlines if continued gulf carrier expansion occurs there.

It's still only a limited market to draw from, and as such it will likely have effects on existing carriers.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: Ben175
Posted 2012-04-15 05:37:36 and read 8431 times.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 134):
I would suspect that there may well be a reduction in PER flights by Asian airlines if continued gulf carrier expansion occurs there.

It's still only a limited market to draw from, and as such it will likely have effects on existing carriers.

Not neccessarily, SQ have announced they will go 4 x daily in winter 2012/2013, so obviously loads haven't been affected by QR starting up in July (though it may be too early to tell)

Though it might hit harder on airlines like Thai and Malaysian who have less O&D traffic between Perth and their Asian hubs.

By the way, how is CZ doing on its PER flights? I haven't seen any statistics around.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2012-04-15 05:51:29 and read 8417 times.

^^ QR are not up to daily are they yet?

Adding in EY will add more pressure, as the gulf carriers fight it out. The Asian carriers have the most to lose really.

SIN is a strong O&D market from PER, so I could still see it remaining strong.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: smi0006
Posted 2012-04-15 05:52:47 and read 8418 times.

WIth regard to the DJ VA codes currently they operate two or three separate check-in systems (perhaps also reservations) VAI as VA is know uses Amadeus Altea (developed in conjunction with Qantas), VANZ (former pac-blue) uses a completely separate system perhaps even different from DJ ( I am not sure if their DCS can support international APIS requirements into and out of NZ and AUS). They will soon all be moving across to a SABRE system in the future with the same system for all three, could this be related to the usage of the dual codes?

On a side note all Virgin international flights now have their above and below wing ground-handeling done by TollDnata from tomorrow (Monday). Previously Aerocare handled VANZ (pacblue) and TollDnata VA. However Virgin wished to bring them all under one contract and Aerocare was unwilling to invest in the equipment to handle wide-body aircraft for so few flights.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: Ben175
Posted 2012-04-15 06:21:48 and read 8404 times.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 136):
^^ QR are not up to daily are they yet?

Adding in EY will add more pressure, as the gulf carriers fight it out. The Asian carriers have the most to lose really.

SIN is a strong O&D market from PER, so I could still see it remaining strong.

QR goes daily from October IIRC. I think that if EY can gain feed through Virgin, all 3 gulf carriers could sustain daily flights. EK was actually putting on a third daily flight on select dates over the summer.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: qf002
Posted 2012-04-15 06:22:53 and read 8414 times.

Quoting vaustralie (Reply 132):

She arrived from KUL at 3:56pm. Not sure why she's here, but can't see any departure information for tomorrow so you'll probably be in luck...

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: koruman
Posted 2012-04-15 06:40:10 and read 8405 times.

Some readers of this thread might be aware of the looming death of Robin Gibb, the cancer-stricken Bee Gee. What they may not know is that he spent much of his childhood living in the outer Brisbane suburb of Cribb Island.

Every time I fly in or out of LAX I am always fascinated by the remnants of the beach town Surfridge, which was emptied and dismantled in the late sixties to expand LAX. Well our very own equivalent is Cribb Island - it now lies under Brisbane Airport, but was an underprivileged semi-rural location just a few decades ago.

If you google "Queensland Places Cribb Island" you can learn more.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: 9MMPD
Posted 2012-04-15 07:43:55 and read 8406 times.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 136):
^^ QR are not up to daily are they yet?

Adding in EY will add more pressure, as the gulf carriers fight it out. The Asian carriers have the most to lose really.

SIN is a strong O&D market from PER, so I could still see it remaining strong.

QR metal has not even touched Perth soil yet.

PER has/will see some strong increases in capacity.

SQ will go 4 x daily again over the peak summer/xmas period. They have also announced that on slect days 773s will be used instead of 772s for the SQ223/226 service.

CX has now permantely kept thier 10pw services to HKG (up from 7) and there is talk of that going to 14 by the year's end.

D7 will have 9 flights to KUL (up from 7) from the end of June.

EK will send us a 77W instead of a 77L for 1 of their 2 daily services (though there have been regular subbing of the 77L for the 77W for many months now)

MK will have 2 flights a week (up from 1) from MRU shortly as they a reconfigure their network to try to get back in the black.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: Ben175
Posted 2012-04-15 09:47:50 and read 8358 times.

I flew into PER from MEL on QF 481 last night and this was the first QF flight inbound to Perth I have been on which has announced specific international connection informiation on arrival (in this instance, South African Airways). It got me thinking, how much of SA's PER-JNB service is connecting pax from the Eastern states?

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: QF175
Posted 2012-04-15 18:24:24 and read 8148 times.

Virgin Australia has confirmed it will suspend its Gold Coast - Townsville E90 services from 03MAY12. As expected, there has been an uproar from the local communities, however Virgin said in a statement the cancellation was due to 'revenue performance' (read, it wasn't making money).

It's interesting to note that 'Alice Springs Airport' is still listed in the Virgin Australia booking engine, however there are no destinations attached. One would think that the E90 (freed up from the OOL-TSV route perhaps) would be a suitable candidate for launching Brisbane, Melbourne or Sydney - Alice Springs (a few weekly or daily perhaps) services and complement the existing Uluru/Ayers Rock offering (especially for those flying in from overseas).

Brisbane - Alice Springs is underserved and Melbourne - Alice Springs has 2 extra weekly Qantas 73H services scheduled for the coming winter peak season. I'm sure the NT Government would provide subsidies or incentives to get any new services to Alice Springs up and running.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: aa909
Posted 2012-04-15 19:16:25 and read 8077 times.

Quoting 9MMPD (Reply 141):

I notice one carrier (flies a white & red livery with a kangaroo, hint hint) is conspicuously absent from the list.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: qf002
Posted 2012-04-15 22:19:18 and read 7901 times.

Quoting aa909 (Reply 144):

Maybe thats because it's irrelevant what QF is up to when discussing Middle Easter and Asian airlines? QF is still a big player out of PER, double daily A333's to SIN and three weekly A333's to HKG.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: CXfirst
Posted 2012-04-15 23:26:30 and read 7822 times.

Quoting 9MMPD (Reply 141):
SQ will go 4 x daily again over the peak summer/xmas period. They have also announced that on slect days 773s will be used instead of 772s for the SQ223/226 service.

I see my outbound flight in June has been changed to the 777-300. Do you know if SQ have updated the 777-300's that they'll use to Australia with the same product as the A330's (Business class and Economy class)? Or will I be stuck with the older IFE and Y product?

-CXfirst

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: Sydscott
Posted 2012-04-15 23:35:33 and read 7796 times.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 145):
QF is still a big player out of PER, double daily A333's to SIN and three weekly A333's to HKG.

Along with JQ twice daily to DPS and 3 a week to CGK. That Hong Kong flight should be daily though.

Quoting 9MMPD (Reply 141):
CX has now permantely kept thier 10pw services to HKG (up from 7) and there is talk of that going to 14 by the year's end.

With Adelaide being de-linked from MEL and going to stand alone services I think CX will need some more capacity in the bilateral before it can make PER double daily. That will depend on the outcome of negotiations which I don't think have re-started after breaking down last year.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: TruemanQLD
Posted 2012-04-16 02:06:28 and read 7646 times.

Quoting QF175 (Reply 143):

Shame, but never really made all that much sense anyway. At least JQ still flies OOL-CNS

Quoting qf002 (Reply 145):
Maybe thats because it's irrelevant what QF is up to when discussing Middle Easter and Asian airlines? QF is still a big player out of PER, double daily A333's to SIN and three weekly A333's to HKG.

Yet apparently PER is underserved by QF   I would probably make HKG daily but thats about it. PVG/PEK flights haven't been profitable from SYD, so don't know why they would be any better from PER (for QF that is)

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: qf002
Posted 2012-04-16 03:36:25 and read 7531 times.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 147):
That Hong Kong flight should be daily though.
Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 148):
Yet apparently PER is underserved by QF   I would probably make HKG daily but thats about it.

Agreed. A return to NRT at some stage would also be nice, but I doubt it will happen...

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: ZuluAlpha
Posted 2012-04-16 03:41:22 and read 7523 times.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 149):
A return to NRT at some stage would also be nice, but I doubt it will happen...

Maybe with Jetstar, or Jetstar Japan ?

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: qf002
Posted 2012-04-16 03:57:33 and read 7511 times.

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 150):
Maybe with Jetstar, or Jetstar Japan ?

That's probably more likely than mainline... But RedQ is probably the long term plan for serving Japan from PER.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2012-04-16 04:51:05 and read 7520 times.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 147):
That Hong Kong flight should be daily though.

Ditto BNE

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: QF175
Posted 2012-04-16 05:00:34 and read 7541 times.

On the subject of Perth, Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation's (CAPA) article today on Kenya Airways makes mention that the Airline has a desire to serve every inhabited continent over the coming years and in FY2016/2017 plans to introduce thrice weekly 787 services to Perth.

http://www.centreforaviation.com/ana...-inhabited-continent-by-2017-71784

Certainly something to look forward to (granted plans, strategies and market conditions can change over a period which may result in services not commencing) and a change to their previous plan to serve Sydney.

Note this is an old article from 2010

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: Boeing767-300
Posted 2012-04-16 06:51:53 and read 7432 times.

Anybody in QF know why 581 is cancelled every Tuesday from May to July.

581 usually is operated by 744 VH-OJD and is normally pretty full. This would presumably put capacity pressure on all the other flights 565 575 577.

Maybe with 744s being retired Tuesay may be maintenance day???

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: Ben175
Posted 2012-04-16 09:16:16 and read 7361 times.

Quoting QF175 (Reply 153):
On the subject of Perth, Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation's (CAPA) article today on Kenya Airways makes mention that the Airline has a desire to serve every inhabited continent over the coming years and in FY2016/2017 plans to introduce thrice weekly 787 services to Perth.

http://www.centreforaviation.com/ana...-inhabited-continent-by-2017-71784

Certainly something to look forward to (granted plans, strategies and market conditions can change over a period which may result in services not commencing) and a change to their previous plan to serve Sydney.

Note this is an old article from 2010

Wow! I know it's four years down the track and things can change... but it would be great to see PER develop itself as a hub into Africa. SA does really well out of JNB so i'm sure KQ will be successful. Perhaps Virgin can jump into bed with a few African airlines to stimulate more demand.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: thegeek
Posted 2012-04-16 23:20:50 and read 7080 times.

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 154):
Anybody in QF know why 581 is cancelled every Tuesday from May to July.

581 usually is operated by 744 VH-OJD and is normally pretty full.

Speculation: Tue is a pretty low demand day. Is it usually full on a Tue, and it's return flight 582?

BTW, the timetable shows that it is to be operated by 767s and A330s when I looked in June.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: aa909
Posted 2012-04-17 00:07:26 and read 7022 times.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 145):
Maybe thats because it's irrelevant what QF is up to when discussing Middle Easter and Asian airlines? QF is still a big player out of PER, double daily A333's to SIN and three weekly A333's to HKG.

Seemed like more of an international PER growth topic rather than one focusing on Middle Eastern and Asian carriers (MK being neither). The point is, noting the above growth, the fact that QF international isn't growing in PER, right now, with how Perth has been growing over the last few years (while in fact cutting NRT) says a lot. Well actually, not really anything new that the CEO hasn't been saying for some time.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: eaglefarm4
Posted 2012-04-17 00:54:18 and read 6972 times.

BNE had another good growth month with INT up 11.1% and DOM up 7.1% Total growth of 7.9% for March.

Average growth for the first quarter of 2012 is 9%.

If things continue even at slower rate, then 22 million pax is a possibility for 2012 calendar year.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: ZKOKQ
Posted 2012-04-17 01:03:49 and read 6965 times.

Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 158):

BNE had another good growth month with INT up 11.1% and DOM up 7.1% Total growth of 7.9% for March

With numbers like this, I wonder how long before we see an A380 kissing the tarmac up here.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: ZuluAlpha
Posted 2012-04-17 02:10:01 and read 6859 times.

Quoting ZKOKQ (Reply 159):
With numbers like this, I wonder how long before we see an A380 kissing the tarmac up here

We all wait with eagerness for that to happen as an RPT service, not just as a diversion due SYD weather

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: TruemanQLD
Posted 2012-04-17 03:10:41 and read 6768 times.

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 160):
We all wait with eagerness for that to happen as an RPT service, not just as a diversion due SYD weather

Pity EK's claim over 4 years ago that 'A380s would begin to BNE with 18months' never came true

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: byronicle6
Posted 2012-04-17 03:26:56 and read 6743 times.

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 161):
Pity EK's claim over 4 years ago that 'A380s would begin to BNE with 18months' never came true

It'll only be a matter of time before EK's A380's are at BNE, and a question of when, not if. Off topic, but it will be amazing to see 3x EK A380's parked up at AKL

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: weebie
Posted 2012-04-17 08:28:17 and read 6505 times.

QF de underestimated the PER market. Their strategy was always to Sydney orientated and other markets have suffered. The same might be able to say about Adelaide in ten years.

AS for PER-NAR that route is dead. Qantas, have been keen for years to cut it but state government pressure kept it. I doubt that even a Jetstar service will get the go ahead.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2012-04-17 18:26:57 and read 6297 times.

^^ Really? That's a pity that Perth-Nare (Columbia) isn't being taken more seriously :lol:

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-04-17 21:36:19 and read 6186 times.

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 154):
Anybody in QF know why 581 is cancelled every Tuesday from May to July.

581 usually is operated by 744 VH-OJD and is normally pretty full. This would presumably put capacity pressure on all the other flights 565 575 577.

Maybe with 744s being retired Tuesay may be maintenance day???
Quoting thegeek (Reply 156):
Speculation: Tue is a pretty low demand day. Is it usually full on a Tue, and it's return flight 582?

BTW, the timetable shows that it is to be operated by 767s and A330s when I looked in June.

With all the equipment and route changes the SYD-PER-SYD B744 services will cease... I can not recall the exact dates but I believe May 2012...

Qantas have released final reports into the uncontained engine failure near SFO...

ATSB releases final investigation report - the ATSB has released their final investigation report into the uncontained engine failure near San Francisco airport in August 2010. The report finds that this incident was caused by a turbine blade failure. Rolls-Royce subsequently instructed airlines to replace a related part with a stronger version. Qantas has fast-tracked this program and within 12 months all Qantas RB211 engines will be compliant with this guidance. Prior to the incident, the engine had been maintained appropriately according to manufacturer requirements. Following the incident the Qantas flight crew shut down the engine and returned to San Franciso, in line with procedure. There was no safety risk at any time.

EK413

[Edited 2012-04-17 21:39:29]

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: eta unknown
Posted 2012-04-18 17:09:20 and read 5697 times.

Quoting byronicle6 (Reply 162):
It'll only be a matter of time before EK's A380's are at BNE, and a question of when, not if.

Agreed, not if, but when... but when can be a VERY long time. Kinda like WHEN is EY going to increase AUH-SIN-BNE to daily- yeah press release after press release spouts the same optimism, but it hasn't happened yet... believe it when you see it.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2012-04-18 17:18:18 and read 5691 times.

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 166):

Agreed, not if, but when... but when can be a VERY long time. Kinda like WHEN is EY going to increase AUH-SIN-BNE to daily- yeah press release after press release spouts the same optimism, but it hasn't happened yet... believe it when you see it.

I agree.

The usual PR spin will say one thing but in reality I wouldn't read too much into it until an official announcement is made, and even more so, when the plane arrives at the airport.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2012-04-18 19:57:15 and read 5537 times.

I was going to start a new thread, but thought it best to ask it in here instead.

What do we all feel is the future of aviation in this country? More consolidation, increased competition or a vastly different playing field in a few years?

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: gemuser
Posted 2012-04-18 21:15:06 and read 5469 times.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 168):
What do we all feel is the future of aviation in this country? More consolidation, increased competition or a vastly different playing field in a few years?

IMHO we are going to end up effectively with a two airline economy in the Australia/New Zealand C.E.R. area, the Qantas Group and the Virgin Australia/Air New Zealand Group. Unlike the last time there will be a fair number of other operators around the edge eg Rex, NJS, Alliance etc, but the two big groups will dominate.

Gemuser

[Edited 2012-04-18 21:26:30]

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: skyhawkmatthew
Posted 2012-04-18 21:26:00 and read 5453 times.

Quoting gemuser (Reply 169):
we are going to end up effectively with a two airline economy in the Australia/New Zealand C.E.R. area

I agree. Within Australia itself, I think we'll end up fairly close to what we had in the days of the Two-Airline policy: the two giants, QF and VA/DJ holding about 50/50 share of the premium market. However, we will have the addition of Jetstar and the much smaller Tiger feeding on the lower end of the market. Air Australia has proved again, as Compass did a couple of times before, that the two-major-airline duopoly situation is not about to change.

It will be interesting to see what happens regionally, with Virgin getting more and more ATRs: will they start to compete with QantasLink and Rex further south, or stick to (mainly) Queensland? I can't see it ending well for Rex if Virgin decide to enter their markets.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2012-04-18 21:26:57 and read 5452 times.

Quoting gemuser (Reply 169):
IMHO we are going to end up effectively with a two airline economy in the Australia/New Zealand C.E.R. area, the Qantas Group and the Virgin Australia/Air New Zealand Group. Unlike the last time there will be other operators around the edge eg Rex, NJS, Alliance etc, but the two big groups will dominate.

Similar thinking to mine.

I can see TT and XR becoming part of a VA/NZ group, with SQ owning a share of the airline (Ansett days revisited).
QF/JQ will continue to focus on a few select destinations, and target Asia as its main profit hotspot.
I can see Rex, Alliance and possibly another carrier joining up to strengthen their ops.

I mainly see continued consolidation, with a few niche players remaining on the outside.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2012-04-18 21:29:55 and read 5446 times.

Quoting skyhawkmatthew (Reply 170):
It will be interesting to see what happens regionally, with Virgin getting more and more ATRs: will they start to compete with QantasLink and Rex further south, or stick to (mainly) Queensland? I can't see it ending well for Rex if Virgin decide to enter their markets.

Same here. Rex are not really doing huge things now, and as their fleet of ageing Saabs will need replacing soon, its even harder to see them go it alone for years to come.

What could Rex replace their fleet with anyway? Theres not really that much out there in that size range these days.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2012-04-18 21:49:24 and read 5419 times.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 172):
What could Rex replace their fleet with anyway?

In terms of 30 seaters I'm not sure that they could replace it with anything. Does BBD still produce the DH8-200?

Otherwise it would have to be the 300 or ATR42-500.

I guess the question is whether that would be too big for some of their markets, making them unviable going forward. That would be a sad scenario (even if only a few towns are dropped) but that is the reality these days. It is the same Stateside with, for example, questions about what will happen to the inter-California UA/OO flying once the EMB-120s start to be put out to pasture.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: skyhawkmatthew
Posted 2012-04-18 21:53:29 and read 5418 times.

IIRC the Dash 8-300 isn't being produced any more either. I agree that many of their markets can't support anything bigger than the Saab/8-200 - so I suppose we will see Rex stick it out with the Saabs for as long as they can (they recently finished upgrading their entire fleet to the B-model, didn't they?), and then start looking for late-build Q200s to replace them. What else is there in the 30-40 seat bracket?

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2012-04-18 22:23:10 and read 5390 times.

Another thing that really has me interested is what people feel will happen to AVV?

With MEL's planned major domestic terminal expansion, JQ's schedule reductions, TT's cancellation of flights from the airport and the new rail link a few years away yet, what future does AVV have? The MEL terminal expansion certainly will take away some of the capacity pressures JQ and TT have there currently.

It's certainly an interesting time in aviation in Australia, and around the world.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: skyhawkmatthew
Posted 2012-04-18 23:36:45 and read 5317 times.

I think AVV will die off in the next few years.

It was initially established as Jetstar's only Melbourne airport as Qantas didn't want to cannibalise their own operations into MEL. Tiger started their operation there because it was cheap, but moved to MEL pretty quickly: people just don't want to drive all the way to AVV when now you can get essentially the same fares out of Tullamarine. Of course, the situation has changed quite a bit since JQ's inception, and JQ now operates mostly to MEL as well. I don't see a future for AVV - it's just so inconvenient and, as Indianic said, MEL will shortly be more than capable of handling the load without the need for a second airport.

That said, I do like JQ's service to AVV: it's a super convenient, cheap way to get to the airshow!   (Though, if they pulled out completely, would we see QF do an airshow charter from SYD again like they did pre-JQ?)

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2012-04-18 23:46:34 and read 5324 times.

Quoting skyhawkmatthew (Reply 176):
I think AVV will die off in the next few years.

I fear the same. The next few years could be a big challenge for them.

Quoting skyhawkmatthew (Reply 176):
It was initially established as Jetstar's only Melbourne airport as Qantas didn't want to cannibalise their own operations into MEL.

Semi true. They utilised both MEL and AVV, with AVV used for routes that already had QF service from MEL (SYD, BNE then ADL and PER).

Quoting skyhawkmatthew (Reply 176):
people just don't want to drive all the way to AVV when now you can get essentially the same fares out of Tullamarine.

This is the main issue. The landscape changed once TT arrived into Australia, and JQ have just made their defensive moves around that since.

AVV is still very convenient for Geelong, Bellarine Peninsula Surf Coast and outer Western Melbourne (Werribee), which is a population in the +500K racket, but just how much demand that actually is is another story. JQ have seemingly pulled down their schedule to accomodate this segment, relying less on Melbourne travellers, which is likely a good thing, but just how sustainable that is will be tested.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: skyhawkmatthew
Posted 2012-04-18 23:58:36 and read 5296 times.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 177):
AVV is still very convenient for Geelong, Bellarine Peninsula Surf Coast and outer Western Melbourne

I can see limited service remaining at AVV as it stands now - similar to NTL - but due to its greater proximity to MEL it misses out on the other regional operations that NTL is able to support. The lack of continued service from TT, or an entry from VA/DJ makes me think that on the whole, MEL is simply too close to allow AVV to grow as its own entity.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2012-04-19 00:03:35 and read 5300 times.

Quoting skyhawkmatthew (Reply 178):
I can see limited service remaining at AVV as it stands now - similar to NTL - but due to its greater proximity to MEL it misses out on the other regional operations that NTL is able to support.

Good example.

It will always be in the shadow of MEL, but the sad part is if it was in the South-East it would likely have had a very big future. The Penguin Express service, and able to tap into a larger population base.

Quoting skyhawkmatthew (Reply 178):
The lack of continued service from TT, or an entry from VA/DJ makes me think that on the whole, MEL is simply too close to allow AVV to grow as its own entity.

Fully agree.

was interesting to hear that VA/DJ had held discussions with the airport a while back, but that never made sense to me.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: QF175
Posted 2012-04-19 00:46:47 and read 5248 times.

Qld intrastate travel booming

Source

Quote:
Brisbane Airport’s recent passenger figures indicate intrastate travel between Brisbane and regional Queensland is growing at more than double the rate of interstate travel.

So significant is the growth that once popular interstate routes are being pushed out of Brisbane’s top 20 city pairs.

Launceston and Hobart have dropped out of the top 20 to make way for Moranbah and Roma, with Gladstone and Emerald also moving up the rankings.

The fastest growing intrastate routes in passenger volume terms for Brisbane Airport include Gladstone, Mackay, Moranbah, Cairns, Emerald, Roma, Whitsunday Coast (Proserpine), Rockhampton, Hervey Bay and Townsville.

Brisbane Airport Corporation’s (BAC) CEO and Managing Director, Julieanne Alroe, said after Sydney, Brisbane has the next best domestic network of all Australian airports in terms of the number of destinations offered.

...

In March, total passenger numbers through Brisbane Airport increased by 7.9 per cent, with an additional 127,000 travellers through the Domestic and International Terminals compared to the same time last year.

Separately, international passengers increased by 11.1 per cent year-on-year, with domestic traffic up 7.1 per cent for the same period.

Make no wonder the likes of Virgin Australia has added significant capacity (via Alliance Airlines and ATRs) on intra-Queensland routes such as Brisbane-Proserpine/Gladstone and Brisbane-Cairns.

Moranbah has been a great mover these past few years - in late 2008 and up to their administration, Macair Saab 340s were plying the route a number of times each week. For over 6 months and after Macair went under, no Airline was was servicing the route. QantasLink bit the bullet and introduced nonstop services at 6x weekly in SEP09 with Dash 8-200 equipment. Fast forward to today where the carrier predominately operates Q400s and around 42 services a week (services will no doubt be increased again)!!

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: ZuluAlpha
Posted 2012-04-19 02:24:19 and read 5137 times.

Quoting QF175 (Reply 180):
Moranbah has been a great mover these past few years

And I'm also going to add RMA into the equation. Like everything in Queensland, with the mining boom up the road in Injune, RMA has up to six flights a day, with a mixture of Dash8-300's, Dash8-200's and Dash8-100's. Recently the airport had a 14 million dollar upgrade including carpark, terminal and the lengthening and stregenthing of the runway at RMA (to 1300 meters) to eventually accommodate Dash8-400's

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: qf002
Posted 2012-04-19 04:28:25 and read 5012 times.

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 154):
Anybody in QF know why 581 is cancelled every Tuesday from May to July.

This coincides with the switch back to A330's on this flight -- ongoing A333 maintenance is probably the culprit. This is also effecting other flights (PER/ADL-SIN being the main ones).

Quoting EK413 (Reply 165):
With all the equipment and route changes the SYD-PER-SYD B744 services will cease... I can not recall the exact dates but I believe May 2012...

The change is alongside the AKL-LAX dropping -- final 744 is on May 4th, Saturday is always a 763ER and the first A330 is on Mon May 6th. Ops will be mixed A332's and A333's.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 168):
What do we all feel is the future of aviation in this country? More consolidation, increased competition or a vastly different playing field in a few years?

I think the biggest winner over the next decade will be JQ, actually. VA is basically doing everything they can to mimick QF (the surface style might differ a little, but underneath it is starting to look identical), and the competition has really shifted to that end of the market. TT has been damaged beyond rescue IMO, though they will remain a small player, and JQ will be used to really ramp up pressure on VA from the bottom, picking up those who flew DJ based on price. And at the same time, they will dominate an entire market segment virtually themselves.

I also hope we ditch passports across the Tasman soon...

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 172):
Same here. Rex are not really doing huge things now, and as their fleet of ageing Saabs will need replacing soon, its even harder to see them go it alone for years to come.

Rex is really going to struggle. They're going to end up stuck in the middle of the QF-VA regional war that's just heating up, even if they retain their monopoly on some of their smaller routes. The secure revenue they get from their trunk routes is going to disappear... I'd expect Rex to be absorbed into either QF or VA, with the regulators requiring some guarantee that services to smaller destinations be sustained for X years...

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: skyhawkmatthew
Posted 2012-04-19 04:44:31 and read 4983 times.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 182):
I'd expect Rex to be absorbed into either QF or VA,

My money's on VA buying Rex before too long - there's basically no overlap between their current networks, they already have various agreements between them, and VA looks to be aggressively expanding their regional offering at the moment. Buying Rex would put VA on a pretty even footing against QF in regional NSW.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: VH-BZF
Posted 2012-04-19 16:52:21 and read 4762 times.

I've heard that Qantas are getting another A330-200 for domestic ops in November this year? This would be a welcome addition to their capacity if correct? What's planned for the QF A330-200 International aircraft once AKL-LAX is dropped?

BZF

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: NZ107
Posted 2012-04-19 17:36:13 and read 4726 times.

Flightradar24 shows DL16 doing some funny pattern off the East Coast... Any info?

[Edited 2012-04-19 17:37:13]

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: Boof
Posted 2012-04-19 18:06:46 and read 4680 times.

TT have announced a return to the MEL-HBA route today with double daily services re commencing on the 1st of November. Flights are available to be booked now on the TT website.

Source: http://www.themercury.com.au/article...12/04/20/320511_tasmania-news.html

This is some great news for both TT and Tasmania. Since the grounding I've not heard a bad thing about TT, they had the best on time performance of all carriers in February (and yes I'm aware they aren't flying as much as the others) and appear to be going well with their return to the sky.

Has anyone heard anything good/bad about them lately?

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2012-04-19 18:20:58 and read 4660 times.

Quoting skyhawkmatthew (Reply 178):
on the whole, MEL is simply too close to allow AVV to grow as its own entity.

I thinks that's the problem. A quick play-around with Google Maps tells me that if MEL was in Chadstone then the drive from Geelong would be longer than the drive from BNE to Surfers Paradise. I realise that this is totally hypothetical, but the point is that since MEL to the west of the city then the drive from Geelong etc simply isn't long enough to justify flights to AVV.

Quoting Boof (Reply 186):
Has anyone heard anything good/bad about them lately?

The only bad thing I've heard about TT recently is people bitching about how much fares have risen since they left certain markets  

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2012-04-19 18:31:15 and read 4648 times.

Quoting Boof (Reply 186):
This is some great news for both TT and Tasmania.

Certainly great news to see them returning on this route. 2X daily seems like a gamble though, but it will likely just be seasonal at that level and return back to a daily, depending on the success they achieve. Good luck TT.

Haven't VA and JQ increased flights on the route lately?

Quoting Boof (Reply 186):
Has anyone heard anything good/bad about them lately?

A mate of mine went with them last month and said it was actually better than his return JQ flight. Only 1 sector but still a positive review.

[Edited 2012-04-19 18:33:52]

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: Boof
Posted 2012-04-19 22:24:33 and read 4498 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 187):
The only bad thing I've heard about TT recently is people bitching about how much fares have risen since they left certain markets

I couldn't agree more with this. JQ & VA have had increases in the base fares out of HBA since TT left, it'll be interesting what a double daily service by TT will do to the average fare paid.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 188):
Certainly great news to see them returning on this route. 2X daily seems like a gamble though, but it will likely just be seasonal at that level and return back to a daily, depending on the success they achieve. Good luck TT.

Haven't VA and JQ increased flights on the route lately?

Yeah both have increased flights on the route but a lot of the increase is coming later in the year.

TT's entry according to the press is double daily year round, with a third service at peak seasonal times, seems that the Tas government have put in some incentives to help things as well.

I actually don't think double daily is as big of a gamble as it might seem, they did have a period before with double daily, they would know well the loads achieved on the route, JQ don't have a stellar reputation in Tasmania (though it's getting better), and the other benefit of double daily is that it gives people that little bit more confidence to book with them. Last time the single daily flight a lot of people wouldn't book with them as the notion was "if it's cancelled I have to wait until tomorrow".

To cap this off VA had a great low fare presence in and out of Tasmania but with the push for business class etc; their fares are now often higher than QF's limited flights in and out HBA.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 188):
A mate of mine went with them last month and said it was actually better than his return JQ flight. Only 1 sector but still a positive review.

1 positive is better than none! I've read a few comments on various travel forums stating the same thing and there was a couple of letters in The Age travel section recently with glowing reviews of TT's return to the sky.

Cheers,

Boof

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2012-04-19 22:39:59 and read 4469 times.

Quoting Boof (Reply 189):
I couldn't agree more with this. JQ & VA have had increases in the base fares out of HBA since TT left, it'll be interesting what a double daily service by TT will do to the average fare paid.

With the amount of seats that will be added, the yields will likely be an issue. Will be interesting to see.

Quoting Boof (Reply 189):
Yeah both have increased flights on the route but a lot of the increase is coming later in the year.

Thanks for that.

Quoting Boof (Reply 189):
TT's entry according to the press is double daily year round, with a third service at peak seasonal times, seems that the Tas government have put in some incentives to help things as well.

Interesting. From a pure volume/demand perspective you can see why the Tasmanian gov would be willing to undertake this. Cheaper fares will ultimately help its economy afterall. The only issue is whether the airlines can sustain it.

Quoting Boof (Reply 189):
Last time the single daily flight a lot of people wouldn't book with them as the notion was "if it's cancelled I have to wait until tomorrow".

Very true.

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: 747m8te
Posted 2012-04-19 23:19:07 and read 4425 times.

Quoting skyhawkmatthew (Reply 176):
Tiger started their operation there because it was cheap, but moved to MEL pretty quickly: people just don't want to drive all the way to AVV when now you can get essentially the same fares out of Tullamarine.

No TT started their ops in MEL, opened up AVV as T4 at MEL was near capacity. AVV was cancelled by TT after the long groundings.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 177):
Quoting skyhawkmatthew (Reply 176):It was initially established as Jetstar's only Melbourne airport as Qantas didn't want to cannibalise their own operations into MEL.

Semi true. They utilised both MEL and AVV, with AVV used for routes that already had QF service from MEL (SYD, BNE then ADL and PER).

Correct JQ used both MEL and AVV, as JQ replaced many of QFs regional/tourist routes they still wanted to fly pax into MEL to suit other flight transfers, and not alienate their travellers from the QF group...that would have sent all the pax to the competion...as no one wants to fly to AVV if they have a choice of MEL.

AVV is great for the people of Geelong to have direct flights to the main cities, but thats about it...

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2012-04-19 23:56:33 and read 4383 times.

http://www.theage.com.au/business/ch...-up-in-the-air-20120420-1xc13.html

Cheaper fares up in the air
April 20, 2012 - 4:07PM

While Qantas and Virgin have been using oil prices as a reason to nudge up airfares, the domestic carriers are facing a glut of extra capacity later this year that’s likely to lead to cheaper ticket prices.

RBA Equities analyst Mark Williams reckons capacity on key domestic routes in September will be up 21 per cent on the same time last year with yield growth correspondingly plummeting.

In a research note to clients, Williams says 2012 is shaping up as a different story for airlines after subdued capacity growth last year.
Advertisement: Story continues below

“VAH (Virgin) has been pushing more capacity into the market to improve its attraction to the corporate market, while Tiger has been granted approval to gradually return its services to pre-grounding levels. QAN's 65% market share "line in the sand" means it will be forced into a response.

“Data we have analysed indicates that by September, the amount of capacity across the top 10 routes in the domestic market will be 21 per cent higher than in September 2011. Almost half of that capacity growth (9 per cent) is to be added over the next five months. We expect capacity growth on the key Sydney-Melbourne-Brisbane triangle to be at similarly high levels.”

Williams expects more aggressive pricing that will hit yield growth hard.

“From domestic yield growth of 4 per cent (QAN) and 11 per cent (VAH) in FY12, we forecast FY13 yield growth will fall to 0.5 per cent and 3.5 per cent respectively.”

And while the extra seats from new aircraft squeeze yields, Qantas is facing higher interest expense to pay for those planes. Williams has reduced his forecast for Qantas pre-tax profit by 21 per cent for the 2012 financial year to $312 million and cut the Virgin estimate by 12 per cent to $100 million, warning to clients “to be cautious around the airlines”.

RBS still rates Qantas a hold, but has trimmed Virgin to hold from a buy while maintaining a preference for Virgin thanks to its push into the corporate market.

-----

Sustainable?? I don't think so. Something will give soon enough.

As for TT and AVV, I would love to know what terms they came to to just walk away as they did. AVV spent considerable money on terminal and apron expansion for them to arrive, for that to just stop so quickly. Even before the grounding routes and frequencies downgraded. Now the place is a ghost town.

[Edited 2012-04-19 23:57:26]

Topic: RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 60
Username: QF175
Posted 2012-04-20 05:03:18 and read 4134 times.

Australian Aviation Thread # 61

Thanks for everyones' contributions throughout thread # 60  


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