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Topic: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: spantax
Posted 2012-04-17 09:37:22 and read 11205 times.

Sorry, only in Spanish

http://www.publico.es/dinero/429844/...pilotos-como-respuesta-a-la-huelga
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2012/04/17/economia/1334668646.html

And also a very interesting analysis (also in Spanish) of somebody on a forum:

"Hasta ahora, la mayor parte de los pilotos de Iberia procedían del ejército: concretamente de sucesivas promociones de la Escala de Complemento del Ejército del Aire. Se incorporaban al Ejército muy jóvenes, con formación de Bachiller o equivalente, y pasaban por la Escuela Elemental de Vuelo, en Armilla (Granada), la base de Matacán, en Salamanca, o la de San Javier, en Murcia. Tras un breve paso por el Ejército, casi todos firmaban contrato con Iberia (algunos, con Aviaco) que, por entonces, era la empresa bandera del Estado Español ante el mundo. En realidad, Iberia utilizaba al Ejército del Aire como escuela de formación de sus pilotos. Sociológicamente, casi todos procedían de familias de pequeña burguesía o de origen más humilde (salvo los pocos pertenecientes a castas o apellidos muy acreditados en la compañía), pero en los muchos años que estuve en contacto con ellos pude comprobar que, casi todos, tenían un denominador común: la rápida asimilación a los hábitos y costumbres que se desarrollan por el hecho de recibir mucho dinero en muy poco tiempo. Casi todos (con muy pocas y honrosas excepciones) asimilaron una mentalidad clasista, de casta privilegiada, que los volvió insensibles a los problemas y dificultades de otros colectivos (aunque estuvieran próximos a ellos); no digamos de los problemas sociales de una España en acelerado proceso de cambio. Naturalmente, su esencia ideológica se volvió de derechas (de esa derecha que se proclama apolítica), pero veían con naturalidad que su empresa -estatal- les pagase un salario desorbitado que convertía a Iberia en un proyecto ruinoso desde el punto de vista económico (según criterios financieros). Pero ellos, convertidos en dueños y señores de un sector tan estratégico para un país como el espacio aéreo, podían chantajear a la compañía hasta el extremo de acaparar la mayor parte de toda la masa salarial de la misma, siendo en número una minoría del personal de la compañía.

Mod Edit: Please do not post full articles.

[Edited 2012-04-17 14:12:56 by srbmod]

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: Talaier
Posted 2012-04-17 09:54:50 and read 11085 times.

There is no going back. Their privileges have ended and they either take it or they are out. The question is how long it will take the government to declare the strike illegal. At that point the conflict will be ended and the pilots can choose to stay in the company or leave. Although for most of them the most likely outcome is a dismissal with a very, very small payout.

26 strikes in 30 years. They have dug their own grave out of it.

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: LHRFlyer
Posted 2012-04-17 10:23:24 and read 10913 times.

This is the Iberia press release in English.

SEPLA should have seen from the experience of BASSA at BA that militancy and resistance of change outright doesn't work with IAG.

Quote:
Iberia today announced plans to implement a series of measures aimed at making the airline more competitive and strengthening its position in a period marked by weak demand, high fuel prices, and fierce competition. This position has been aggravated seriously by the strikes held since December by the SEPLA pilots union which have cost the company some three million euros per strike day.

The purpose of the measures is to reduce Iberia’s unit costs and to raise productivity. Specifically, pilots’ payroll costs will be cut by 20% or 62 million euros, and productivity will be increased by 25%.

The company decided that the measures will apply to the pilots alone, who are the only employees who, following more than two and a half years of negotiations, have failed to reach an agreement on a new union contract, such as those agreed by ground staff and cabin crews.

The cut in unit costs is to be achieved via a 12% reduction in pay scales and other measures bringing an additional 8% decrease in pilots’ payroll costs, such as the elimination of certain automatic pay hikes linked to the inflation rate. Another measure will adjust remuneration to pilots with 15 years’ seniority who choose to work fewer hours, so that pay is proportional to the hours worked. The guarantee to pilots who lose their licenses will be cut from 90% to 45% of their pay, and incentive pay for attaining objectives will be dropped.

Productivity will be increased by raising the number of hours worked by Iberia pilots, within legally established limits. Iberia will now set a limit of 900 flying hours per year for pilots, raising it from the 820 or 850 hours (depending on distances flown) limit stipulated in the last collective bargaining agreement, although the real number of hours flown is closer to 650. Seniority-linked extra vacation days will be dropped, and there will be changes in on-call arrangements. Lastly, the composition of flight crews will be modified within the limits of current legislation.

Iberia financial manager José María Fariza commented that “the company accepts the necessity of applying these measures within the current framework of labour laws and agreements, as the sole means of ensuring success in the difficult situation faced by the airline”, adding that “this battery of actions aimed at making Iberia profitable is in line with what comparable airlines are doing and is absolutely necessary to enable us to compete successfully in a globalised market”.

Meanwhile, Iberia today called on the SEPLA pilots union to return to the bargaining table to negotiate a new contract and to call off the strikes that do so much damage to the company and the customers who maintain it.

Iberia expresses its regret that SEPLA representatives decided not to attend the meeting called for today in which the company intended to explain the new measures it is proposing to implement, in an indication of if its lack of interest in negotiations. Iberia has invited them to new meetings called for the 18th, 19th, 20th, 23rd, 24th, 25th, 26th and 27th of April, and in order to facilitate their attendance has abstained from assigning flying duty to any SEPLA representative for the next 15 days.

As in earlier strikes, the company expresses its regrets for any inconvenience caused and pledges to use all means at its disposal to minimise the strikes’ impact on travel plans. Iberia also thanks all its other employees for their efforts in providing the best possible services to our customers.
http://grupo.iberia.es/portal/site/g...249ffb6310VgnVCM1000005ffe15acRCRD

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: SuperCaravelle
Posted 2012-04-17 10:47:41 and read 10762 times.

A 20% cut in a one-sided announcement. Is that even possible? It is quite shocking for sure. I'm not going to defend the pilots or the airline, as I don't have enough information, and I generally oppose strikes, but after a 20% salary cut (effectively more due to forced increased hours) I can't say I blame them...

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: PGNCS
Posted 2012-04-17 11:06:03 and read 10660 times.

Quoting SuperCaravelle (Reply 3):
A 20% cut in a one-sided announcement. Is that even possible? It is quite shocking for sure. I'm not going to defend the pilots or the airline, as I don't have enough information, and I generally oppose strikes, but after a 20% salary cut (effectively more due to forced increased hours) I can't say I blame them...

Having seen my pay halved and loss of my pension during bankruptcy, I am much less likely to rush to judgment when "I don't have enough information." This is bitter medicine, but prolonging it will only make it worse. These pilots have a history of striking beyond reason, and while the profession may be underpaid in certain sectors, their existing contract is in no realistic way competitive.

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2012-04-17 11:16:53 and read 10585 times.

Quoting Talaier (Reply 1):
26 strikes in 30 years. They have dug their own grave out of it.

WHAT?!? That is horrid... There should be multiple years between strikes.

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: par13del
Posted 2012-04-17 11:25:28 and read 10535 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 5):
WHAT?!? That is horrid... There should be multiple years between strikes.

We are talking about Europe my friend, they strike each summer  
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 4):
Having seen my pay halved and loss of my pension during bankruptcy,

Personally I usually think of this as a case of not moving on when the walls start to crumble, yes you may go elsewhere for lower pay and benefits, but I think in the long run the stress, anxiety and the massive change in the work environment is not physically healthy, after all, when one is finished working you should be healthy enough to enjoy your retirement, even if there is less money to spend.

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: Talaier
Posted 2012-04-17 11:29:57 and read 10500 times.

Quoting SuperCaravelle (Reply 3):

A 20% cut in a one-sided announcement. Is that even possible? It is quite shocking for sure. I'm not going to defend the pilots or the airline, as I don't have enough information, and I generally oppose strikes, but after a 20% salary cut (effectively more due to forced increased hours) I can't say I blame them...

It is thanks to the new Spanish jobs law act passed a few weeks ago.

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: blueshamu330s
Posted 2012-04-17 11:30:04 and read 10492 times.

Quote:
Productivity will be increased by raising the number of hours worked by Iberia pilots, within legally established limits. Iberia will now set a limit of 900 flying hours per year for pilots, raising it from the 820 or 850 hours (depending on distances flown) limit stipulated in the last collective bargaining agreement, although the real number of hours flown is closer to 650.

See, this is something which I will never comprehend; I got into flying for the love of flying. I know a few people who view it as nothing more than a job with a decent wage and good pension at the end, but the vast majority of my friends, colleagues and peers are pilots because they are aviators who live for flying, who sign off after their trip and dash over to the other side of the airfield to go fly their historic cub or go off for a few hours VFR back to basics fun flying. Flying is in their blood, it was always their ambition, their life's desire to fly.

I just cannot comprehend or understand a professional pilot who would actually want to fly for as little as 650 hours a year; it simply doesn't compute...

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: par13del
Posted 2012-04-17 11:37:33 and read 10466 times.

Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 8):
I just cannot comprehend or understand a professional pilot who would actually want to fly for as little as 650 hours a year; it simply doesn't compute...

You partly answered your question.

Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 8):
but the vast majority of my friends, colleagues and peers are pilots because they are aviators who live for flying, who sign off after their trip and dash over to the other side of the airfield to go fly their historic cub or go off for a few hours VFR back to basics fun flying.

A vast majority of time spent by pilots flying missions longer than two hours is system monitoring / system management, indeed autopilots can now be activated within a few minutes of wheels up, a lot of old timers will tell you what those folks do toay is not flying, even if they must have Bsc's to get into the cockpit.

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: blueshamu330s
Posted 2012-04-17 11:52:37 and read 10380 times.

Quoting par13del (Reply 9):
indeed autopilots can now be activated within a few minutes of wheels up

Seconds my friend, seconds.  

Rgds

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: Mir
Posted 2012-04-17 12:28:39 and read 10234 times.

Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 8):
I just cannot comprehend or understand a professional pilot who would actually want to fly for as little as 650 hours a year; it simply doesn't compute...

I would bet that a lot of it has to do with time spent away from home. That can start to wear on you. Flying is great, no doubt about it, but seeing your loved ones in person instead of talking to them on the phone is pretty great too.

That said, 650 hours a year isn't competitive at all.

-Mir

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: Eagleboy
Posted 2012-04-17 12:49:29 and read 10115 times.

20% reduction in flight crew costs is a huge aim. It seems over the top in my opinion. Are these costs across the board or just flight crew? The you have to ask how many the IB flight crew and other staff get paid? Is it that far above industry norm? (I am sure we have all heard of the very expensive Spanish ATCO's)
It all depends on how logical and realistic the IB flight crew are. Several airlines recently have had staff accept the bitter pills they have been handed in order to keep the company afloat.

Quoting Talaier (Reply 1):
26 strikes in 30 years. They have dug their own grave out of it.

I had an idea it was bad in Spain, but this is unbelievable. Is this counting all Iberia staff or just the flight crew?

(In 15 years in my airline we have had industrial action 4 times with only 1 actual strike)

Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
That said, 650 hours a year isn't competitive at all.

With 900 being the maximum limit I would assume 800+ is a more efficient average hours per crew member to attain.

[Edited 2012-04-17 13:40:44]

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: Bralo20
Posted 2012-04-17 13:17:19 and read 9955 times.

Wow... 20% pay cut??? Is this even legally possible? I don't pick sides since I don't know any facts but this is a bit harsh I think. If my employer (non-aviation) would say on one given day: you'll be earning 20% less I'm pretty sure that the whole company would just walk away the same day to never come back... While the times may be though 20% is huge... Add that with 25% extra productivity and you'll have a pay cut that just enormous...

I doubt this will be the right strategy...

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: LHRFlyer
Posted 2012-04-17 13:32:31 and read 9874 times.

Quoting Bralo20 (Reply 13):


It's certainly an audacious move. But probably necessary to get SEPLA back to the negotiating table and to agree on a new collective bargaining agreement.

[Edited 2012-04-17 13:58:16]

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: B777LRF
Posted 2012-04-17 13:56:25 and read 9766 times.

Well, at least now we know where M-rats, Catsarse and Eddihad will be running their next recruitment drives ...

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: LHRFlyer
Posted 2012-04-17 14:20:16 and read 9518 times.

According to the Financial Times in London (article behind a paywall) this will trigger 15 days of negotiations with SEPLA and if an agreement cannot be reached, an arbitration committee will step in.

Iberia expects a resolution in 50 days.

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: BA677
Posted 2012-04-17 14:25:41 and read 9472 times.

Quoting par13del (Reply 6):
We are talking about Europe my friend, they strike each summer


 
Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 8):
See, this is something which I will never comprehend; I got into flying for the love of flying. I know a few people who view it as nothing more than a job with a decent wage and good pension at the end, but the vast majority of my friends, colleagues and peers are pilots because they are aviators who live for flying, who sign off after their trip and dash over to the other side of the airfield to go fly their historic cub or go off for a few hours VFR back to basics fun flying. Flying is in their blood, it was always their ambition, their life's desire to fly.

I just cannot comprehend or understand a professional pilot who would actually want to fly for as little as 650 hours a year; it simply doesn't compute...

  


There are so many qualified pilots out there hue have put considerable money, time and effort in getting a licence hue cannot get a job. If the pilots don't like Wat's on offer, then they no were to go. The Spanish government should make the strike illegal as it may hurt the economy as well as the airline.

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: Talaier
Posted 2012-04-17 14:38:20 and read 9280 times.

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 12):
I had an idea it was bad in Spain, but this is unbelievable. Is this counting all Iberia staff or just the flight crew?

(In 15 years in my airline we have had industrial action 4 times with only 1 actual strike)

It's counting ONLY the pilots. We've had our fair share of strikes over here I guess. In any case it does include its period as a state-owned company, which of course meant industrial action happened under different conditions.

Full Iberia public note can be found here (in English)

http://grupo.iberia.es/portal/site/g...1b18ab6310VgnVCM20000060fe15acRCRD

Gives quite a bit of a perspective from the company's point of view.

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: airbazar
Posted 2012-04-17 15:35:32 and read 8764 times.

Quoting Bralo20 (Reply 13):
If my employer (non-aviation) would say on one given day: you'll be earning 20% less I'm pretty sure that the whole company would just walk away the same day to never come back...

I'm sure IB pilots can walk away if they chose. But they don't want to, that's the idea for strikes. To get what you want.

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 15):
Well, at least now we know where M-rats, Catsarse and Eddihad will be running their next recruitment drives ...

Where they'll be making a lot less than the 20% reduction that they're being offered 

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: FURUREFA
Posted 2012-04-17 15:55:54 and read 8595 times.

Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 8):
Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 12):

Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
That said, 650 hours a year isn't competitive at all.

With 900 being the maximum limit I would assume 800+ is a more efficient average hours per crew member to attain.

If 900 is the upper bound, that is no pilot may fly more than 900 hours annually, than that is absurd. That comes to an average of 75 hours a month. That is the MAXIMUM.

Here in the US, and I would assume most other countries, typical scheduled hours per month range from 70-80 hours per month. That said, one is welcome to drop trips, but US pilots are generally scheduled the amount the maximum amount IB's pilots can fly. That's just not competitive.

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: fuffla
Posted 2012-04-17 16:32:03 and read 8364 times.

It is a legal requirement in Australia as well. No pilot can fly more than 900 flight hours per year.

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: Mir
Posted 2012-04-17 17:11:35 and read 8107 times.

Quoting FURUREFA (Reply 20):
If 900 is the upper bound, that is no pilot may fly more than 900 hours annually, than that is absurd.

To be fair, it's only 100 hours less than the FAA legal maximum per year.

-Mir

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: javibi
Posted 2012-04-17 23:49:58 and read 6513 times.

Quoting Talaier (Reply 1):
26 strikes in 30 years
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 5):
WHAT?!? That is horrid... There should be multiple years between strikes
Quoting par13del (Reply 6):
We are talking about Europe my friend, they strike each summer

Make that 8 effective strikes since 1979, including the actual conflict and also the one hour testimonial nationwide pilots' strike against new safety regulations in 1997.
Link (spanish): http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2011/12/18/economia/1324168655.html

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 2):
Iberia will now set a limit of 900 flying hours per year for pilots, raising it from the 820 or 850 hours (depending on distances flown) limit stipulated in the last collective bargaining agreement, although the real number of hours flown is closer to 650.

That 650+ AVERAGE has to be put into perspective; to come up with that figure I guess Iberia has included instructor and check pilots, guys over 60 that fly only half time, maternal leaves, etc... and probably even the guys unfortunate enough to have lost their licenses who are still in the payroll. On top of that pilots are required to be on call up to two months a year, flying less than usual during that periods.

Cheers,

j

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: sf260
Posted 2012-04-18 04:38:03 and read 5212 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 5):
Quoting Talaier (Reply 1):
26 strikes in 30 years. They have dug their own grave out of it.

WHAT?!? That is horrid... There should be multiple years between strikes.

Lightsaber

Last year, we had a guy over here "celebrating" his 100th strike -in 25 years- with our national railway company. That makes those 26 strikes look silly...  

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: bj87
Posted 2012-04-18 07:10:06 and read 4560 times.

Quoting Talaier (Reply 1):
26 strikes in 30 years. They have dug their own grave out of it.

Good grief and I thought Air France was the holy grail of strikes!

Sometimes I don't get it. Yes everyone has the right to strike but it has to be measure that is used proportionally. That and if you are trying to squeeze more money out of a company it seems to be rather stupid to go on strike and cause the same institution that you want to get money from to lose money.

Quoting FURUREFA (Reply 20):
If 900 is the upper bound, that is no pilot may fly more than 900 hours annually, than that is absurd. That comes to an average of 75 hours a month. That is the MAXIMUM.
Quoting Mir (Reply 22):
To be fair, it's only 100 hours less than the FAA legal maximum per year.

True it is only a 100 hours less but how many extra pilots will an airline need to fill that 100 hour gap?

Rough example for an airline with 500 pilots: (why 500? Because it makes for easy maths)
500 pilots x 1000 hours is 500.000 available pilot hours
500 pilots x 900 hours is 450.000 available pilot hours.

That is a 50.000 hour difference divided by 900 means that an additional 56 pilots will be needed to fill the 100 hour gap! Consider training, salary, taxes and pensions and that is going to cost an enormous amount of money.

[Edited 2012-04-18 07:11:20]

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: r2rho
Posted 2012-04-18 07:41:33 and read 4372 times.

Quoting SuperCaravelle (Reply 3):
after a 20% salary cut (effectively more due to forced increased hours) I can't say I blame them...
Quoting bj87 (Reply 25):
Quoting FURUREFA (Reply 20):
If 900 is the upper bound, that is no pilot may fly more than 900 hours annually, than that is absurd. That comes to an average of 75 hours a month. That is the MAXIMUM.
Quoting Mir (Reply 22):
To be fair, it's only 100 hours less than the FAA legal maximum per year.

True it is only a 100 hours less but how many extra pilots will an airline need to fill that 100 hour gap?

The FAA limit is irrelevant in this matter, as the airlines IB is losing money against are subjected to the EASA limit of 900hrs, and that is the reference.

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: tonystan
Posted 2012-04-18 08:20:15 and read 4194 times.

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 2):
SEPLA should have seen from the experience of BASSA at BA that militancy and resistance of change outright doesn't work with IAG.

Well many of those BASSA members sacked by BA cos of the dispute have now had to be reinstated, those that have decided not to return have been significantly compensated by them. The legacy crew are earning the same if not more then they were before the dispute and now the legacy fleets are being expanded significantly with the introduction of BMI crew into their numbers at the loss to MF. Horrific abuses of power from management are slowly being outed and I imagine itll all happen at IB too!

So your point is very debatable! lol

[Edited 2012-04-18 08:22:26]

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: GCPET
Posted 2012-04-18 09:11:30 and read 3906 times.

20% seem's a ridiculous amount of a salary? What would a A340 Captain at Iberia get it comparison to a B747 Captain at BA (since they're IAG)? My Dad was telling me that he thought they got a chauffeur driven car to the airport from home (Captains)?

GCPET

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: blueshamu330s
Posted 2012-04-18 09:50:18 and read 3725 times.

Quoting tonystan (Reply 27):
Well many of those BASSA members sacked by BA cos of the dispute have now had to be reinstated

5, yes, just FIVE. Did you get that everyone? Just five people out of the 42+ who were rightly sacked for their disgusting behaviour.

Quoting tonystan (Reply 27):
those that have decided not to return have been significantly compensated by them

And you know this how? To my knowledge, there isn't yet a single one of the five who have decided not to return, and if they don't they will get zero compensation as they will have resigned. Furthermore, there are NDAs on ALL the arbitration hearings, so your claims are nothing more than BASSA bull.

Quoting tonystan (Reply 27):
The legacy crew are earning the same if not more then they were before the dispute

Earning the same???? Epic FAIL by BASSA if that is the case. Legacy crew are earning more, inline with the original, the 2nd and the 3rd offer which were put to BASSA, one of which, sadly, the members weren't allowed to vote on by the BASSA Oligarchs.  
Quoting tonystan (Reply 27):
legacy fleets are being expanded significantly with the introduction of BMI crew into their numbers at the loss to MF.

Rubbish ! How is it "at the loss of MF"? What a load of tosh ! bmi staff are going onto EuroFleet as their Ts & Cs are closest aligned to it. There is no, zero, nada opportunity for them to apply for WW fleet, and you know it. WW cabin crew numbers have been in decline since day one of Mixed Fleet and will continue to decline until there isn't a single one left; FACT.

Quoting tonystan (Reply 27):
Horrific abuses of power from management are slowly being outed and I imagine itll all happen at IB too!

Be very careful, my friend. It's internet chatter like that which caused many to feel the hand of the law on them and which got ALOT of BA staff sacked during the dispute; and rightly so.

[Edited 2012-04-18 09:57:57]

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: LHRFlyer
Posted 2012-04-18 09:55:20 and read 3706 times.

Quoting tonystan (Reply 27):

Not quite!

There were around 30 sackings during the dispute. Of these BA agreed 18 could go to ACAS arbitration and it was announced that a settlement had been agreed, whereby 5 have been offered their jobs back. The terms of the rest of the settlement are unknown as this is confidential. It may suit some to claim that BA has paid substantial compensation but nobody knows.

A settlement is a sensible and logical way of bringing it all to an end and avoiding a protracted arbitration process and a significant commitment of management time and legal expenses.

Of the cases that went to an Industrial Tribunal BA won all but one case and in the case that BA lost the employee's entitlement to compensation was reduced by 50%.

What the public Industrial Tribunal cases showed was not any abuse of power but that some employees thought they had the right to do what they wanted with impunity and some did themselves no favours in front of the Tribunal by not showing any regret for their actions.

It should also be pointed out that in getting an offer to only five crew members of their jobs back BASSA has only recovered a small part of what was lost from striking.

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: tonystan
Posted 2012-04-18 11:16:31 and read 3570 times.

Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 29):

My goodness you are one very very angry and bitter person just going by that post! And a threat in there too! Nice!

But yes you are correct....WW fleet numbers are in decline, why? Cos recruitment into the fleet has been closed (although there has been a large amount of movement between legacy fleets the last few months) by the company in favour of MF.

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 30):
whereby 5 have been offered their jobs back

Youll find it is more then 5 offered their job back but 5 actually "accepted" their job back!

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: blueshamu330s
Posted 2012-04-18 12:19:33 and read 3473 times.

Not angry or bitter; I simply abhor it when people or groups reinvent history or invent "facts" in the pursuit of their own agenda.

Rgds

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: r2rho
Posted 2012-04-20 05:34:53 and read 3043 times.

Some more detailed info:

- It is a 20% reduction in labor costs, not direct salaries. Salaries are reduced 12%.
- 25% productivity increase (=more flight hours).
- Currenty average gross salary is 207000 EUR according to IB
- IB will cut its contribution to the pilot's pension fund
- various other freezes or cuts to benefits, bonuses, salary increases etc
- Total savings 62.4mill EUR per year

The article in Spanish is quite detailed, maybe someone with more inside knowledge can explain more
http://www.expansion.com/2012/04/19/...26df6add99e4c5c97147d&t=1334911187

Topic: RE: Iberia Cuts 20% The Salaries Of Its Pilots
Username: babybus
Posted 2012-04-20 07:17:31 and read 2920 times.

I believe BA pilots get paid 2 hours before the flight even starts and for two hours afterwards (to cover travelling time?). Hence BA pilots live two hours away from the airport they are based at.

Is it the same at Iberia?

My understanding of this is it's not a salary cut but an increase in productivity through increased flying times. I think there are a lot of workers out there who have had to accept the same kind of arrangement. Why should pilots be any different?


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