Air Transat has been using A-310s and A330s for a while now. I'm sure they have very good maintenance department and all, but still these aircraft do show their age whether they like it or not. isn't it time to replace them with smtg decent. Are they planning on doing that?

It seems that Air Transat is very content with the A310 but it is '80s begin '90 technology and - thus - nearly 25 years old.
Remember that this is as old as the 747s at DL, KL, BA, KL, UA etc.

I bet in the end they will be A350 or 787 customers!   

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 1): I bet in the end they will be A350 or 787 customers!

Yea when someone else starts retiring them... TS loves hand-me-downs. Except for 2 A330-200s everything they have ever operated was used (L1011s, 727s, 757s, A310s, A330s...) or short term leased (734s, A320s).

For now they are renewing to an all A330 fleet, disposing of the A310s.
If they will adopt a second type in future for the "lighter" ops or continue farming those out to other operators is the question.

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 1): It seems that Air Transat is very content with the A310 but it is '80s begin '90 technology and - thus - nearly 25 years old. Remember that this is as old as the 747s at DL, KL, BA, KL, UA etc. I bet in the end they will be A350 or 787 customers!

One difference is that they lease or buy older aircraft and thus tend to have older aircraft in their fleet, they will not probably order any new aircraft but buy used or lease any new aircraft they require.

Don't count on it anytime soon! It was only 8 years ago that they retired their last L-1011s.

Quoting northstardc4m (Reply 2): If they will adopt a second type in future for the "lighter" ops or continue farming those out to other operators is the question.

If they decide to get their own narrowbodies, CanJet may be in trouble; although there's also Hola Sun.

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 4): If they decide to get their own narrowbodies, CanJet may be in trouble

EEKS! As long as that doesn't become a Canada 3000 scenario all over again...

Maybe Transat will buy out C6 if IMG ever decides to sell it... but more likely I think a few A310s will linger on longer than planned or C6 and Sunwing will be big winners when TS downsizes winter flying.

Quoting rikkus67 (Reply 5): Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 4): If they decide to get their own narrowbodies, CanJet may be in trouble EEKS! As long as that doesn't become a Canada 3000 scenario all over again...

Well Canjet won't be a repeat of C3000 because Canjet went from scheduled carrier to all charter (C3000 went the other way) and only have 5 737's currently, mostly charter for Transat.

You do realize than Canjet actually merged with C3000 just as C3000 was going bust but was then re-incorporated as a separate entity again?

TS had the big unveiling of their new cabin today, so that more or less confirms they want to hang onto those 330s for as long as they fly since they sunk so much money into the refreshed interior.

You can see some pictures from the unveiling ceremony here.

Quoting robsaw (Reply 7): only have 5 737's currently, mostly charter for Transat

   I was talking to one of CanJet's group sales reps about chartering a flight next year and he said they were almost completely booked up with Air Transat charters. It seems most of their revenue is coming from TS.

Quoting kevin (Thread starter): Air Transat has been using A-310s

Apart from TS, S4, and White still flying A310 PAX aircraft, who else still is?

FX flies them with boxes, but is that it? I feel like I'm missing someone...

The other thing to keep in mind about the A310s is that at some point DND might just decide they want them for additional MRTTs if the PM keeps up his demand for a dedicated VIP aircraft. I could pretty easily imagine a very good price being offered for much of the fleet...

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 9): I'm missing someone...

Biman..

Judging by your username, I am sure you know Portugal has been an A310 "heaven" for quite some time now.. I remember about a decade ago quite a few Portuguese carriers were still using the L-1011 too.

Wonder if Air Transat would be interested in the A345's sitting in TLS?

Who does Transat pay to charter these days? WS is done with that and has been for a while... Sunwing?

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 9): Apart from TS, S4, and White still flying A310 PAX aircraft, who else still is?

Does PIA still fly them?

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 9): Apart from TS, S4, and White still flying A310 PAX aircraft, who else still is? FX flies them with boxes, but is that it? I feel like I'm missing someone...

Biman, PIA, Mahan Air and Iran Air come up in my mind.

I do hope Air Transat keep their A310's for a while, I just like the looks of those planes and we see them at Schiphol now and then. Short and stubby, just nice!

Cheers!   

Hi

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 14):

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 14): Apart from TS, S4, and White still flying A310 PAX aircraft, who else still is? FX flies them with boxes, but is that it? I feel like I'm missing someone...

Another two come to mind! Tarom, Sata.

Hope this helps

Dublinspotter

Quoting boeingorbust (Reply 12): Who does Transat pay to charter these days? WS is done with that and has been for a while... Sunwing?

TS uses Canjet to charter some of their routes..

WS still works with tour operators...their biggest customer being Sunquest/Thomas Cook, although WS does not specifically charter an entire flight out Sunquest/Thomas Cook holds block space for their customers on Sun/Leisure destinations.

http://www.travelhotnews.com/reportages.php?sequence_no=38087

Quote: Currently, the fleet is made up of 23 aircraft; 11 Airbus A310s and 12 Airbus A330s. We are going to gradually replace the Airbus 310s with A330s and Boeing 787s.

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 9):

According to airfleets:

-S7 Airlines
-Air India
-Royal Jordanian
-Turkish
-Uzbekistan
-MIAT Mongolia

Quoting boeingorbust (Reply 12): Who does Transat pay to charter these days? WS is done with that and has been for a while... Sunwing?

CanJet is under contract with them for a couple more years I believe. We'll have to see where this one goes because C4 has been doing their fair share of layoffs out of their former home base (YHZ) lately. It's been pretty much exclusively FAs that have been let go, but dumping any employees is almost never a good sign.

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 11): Wonder if Air Transat would be interested in the A345's sitting in TLS?

Don't tease me with such a thought! I would love to see Air Transat colours on a 4-engine aircraft. But as I mentioned earlier, they've just sunk some heavy capital into a cabin refreshment, so I don't think they have a whole lot of cash kicking around to pick up any new types, especially one with greater capacity than what they currently operate.

Quoting sanjet (Reply 17): Quote: Currently, the fleet is made up of 23 aircraft; 11 Airbus A310s and 12 Airbus A330s. We are going to gradually replace the Airbus 310s with A330s and Boeing 787s.

I don't know what Graham is going on about. TS doesn't even have a LOI for any 787s yet. These promises are way too premature in my opinion. Let alone the fact that he all of a sudden wants to introduce brand-new B aircraft into an all-A fleet? This one doesn't pass the smell test for me...

All I wish is that they make it so that a regular sized human being will fit into any new aircraft they fly.

My guess would be A330s and maybe leased A321Neos if they need something smaller.....

Quoting brilondon (Reply 20):

I traveled on on transat this year and they have made big improvements in regards to passengers comfort. Seems similar to any other schedule airline config in economy.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 19): I don't know what Graham is going on about. TS doesn't even have a LOI for any 787s yet. These promises are way too premature in my opinion. Let alone the fact that he all of a sudden wants to introduce brand-new B aircraft into an all-A fleet? This one doesn't pass the smell test for me...

Agree right now. However, the 788 would be the best new aircraft to replace the A310. They would have to think about that now to get them in a time frame they will need them, unless they get them from a lessor - for which I would imagine there would be a pretty lengthy line up.

Sadly, I think they are going to become all A330 and continue to farm out the smaller flights.

Well, I say sadly as a spotter, but as a pax those 310's are horrific. The 330 doesnt seem so bad somehow.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 23): Well, I say sadly as a spotter, but as a pax those 310's are horrific. The 330 doesnt seem so bad somehow.

  

As much as I loved the novelty of flying on one, the seats were pure torture even for a 3-hour flight. That and the store-brand frozen dinners they serve as meals.

Great crew though!

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 23): the 788 would be the best new aircraft to replace the A310

Agreed.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 23): They would have to think about that now to get them in a time frame they will need them, unless they get them from a lessor

You raise a good point. ILFC has 33 of the -8 on order right now, very few of which are spoken for this early (my assumption). TS is no stranger to the leasing game, so for all we know they may have already been in talks with them (or one of the other handful of lessors with orders) about grabbing a few.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 23): Well, I say sadly as a spotter, but as a pax those 310's are horrific. The 330 doesnt seem so bad somehow.

I had the misfortune of having to go to London on short notice and travelled through YYZ because the fare was about $600 less expensive...you get what you pay for.

Quoting columba (Reply 21): My guess would be A330s and maybe leased A321Neos if they need something smaller.....

The use to lease 737's for their Caribbean flights a few years back, but they seem to need the capacity of a larger aircraft such as the 757's and I don't see how the A321 would fit into their structure.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 23): Well, I say sadly as a spotter, but as a pax those 310's are horrific. The 330 doesnt seem so bad somehow.

Really?
The last time I flew with Air Transat was in 2005, from what I recall everything was in good shape and the seats were comftrable for the duration for my flight. The A310 is a great aircraft btw, I found it to be one of the best ive travelled on (honestly) its quiet and comftrable.

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 24): That and the store-brand frozen dinners they serve as meals.

I dont recall what the food is like on Air Transat, but it sure as hell aint worst than the garbage they serve on Air Canada. On my last few overseas flights I was pretty ashamed that Air Canada would even serve such poor quality food, I wouldent even feed it to my dog (if I had a dog that is). The most recent meal I had which deserves a standing ovation was on Lufthansa. btw, im talking about cattle class here not first/business, im sure Air Canada is top notch in that class.

Here's the new cabin (pics)

http://www.transat.com/en/new-cabin/index.aspx

The'll probably just get more second hand aircraft, probably another A330.

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 9): I feel like I'm missing someone...

Not an airline, but the Royal Canadian Air Force has 5 A310-300s.

View Large View Medium

Photo © Akira Uekawa

Quoting q120 (Reply 27): Really? The last time I flew with Air Transat was in 2005, from what I recall everything was in good shape and the seats were comftrable for the duration for my flight

It wasnt the quality of the cabin, it was the width of the seats - one extra seat abreast squeezed in I believe as it was 3-3-3. That is tight! One showed up on the GLA - YVR flight the other day, I truly feel sorry for those pax - I barely endured YYZ - EDI. I actually did pass out later in the day through lack of sleep and horrible cramps.

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 24): That and the store-brand frozen dinners they serve as meals. Great crew though!

Have only flown them recently (all previous flights were operated by TCX but guess same caterer) but the food was on par with most airlines in Y and last year there was even free wine & candy which you would not expect for a $600 roundtrip fare YVR - LGW.

The crew were awesome - visibly tired though, but smiled away despite this.

Quoting juantrippe82 (Reply 29): The'll probably just get more second hand aircraft, probably another A330.

   More will become availabe in the next 5 years as the 787 and A350 gains traction with other airlines and they start to hand me down. A lot of the 310's are ex EK just for example. Could well see a repeat as they get their 350's.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 31): Quoting q120 (Reply 27): Really? The last time I flew with Air Transat was in 2005, from what I recall everything was in good shape and the seats were comftrable for the duration for my flight It wasnt the quality of the cabin, it was the width of the seats - one extra seat abreast squeezed in I believe as it was 3-3-3.

3-3-3 on an Airbus widebody is very tight, even worse than 3-4-3 on the 777. I can't think of any Airbus operators other than charter/leisure carriers that have ever operated with 9-abreast seating.The same applies for 8-abreast (2-4-2) 767s which is even worse than 3-3-3 on an Airbus.

However, TS did increase the seat pitch by about 2 inches a couple of years ago.

Fortunately for TS, most of their passengers are more interested in low fares than seating density.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 32): I can't think of any Airbus operators other than charter/leisure carriers that have ever operated with 9-abreast seating.

Mexicana used to, before they went under. Interestingly enough, two of them are actually with TS now with the same seats and Panasonic AVOD.

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 33): Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 32): I can't think of any Airbus operators other than charter/leisure carriers that have ever operated with 9-abreast seating. Mexicana used to, before they went under. Interestingly enough, two of them are actually with TS now with the same seats and Panasonic AVOD.

Yes I recall that. I think they were intended for the UK charter/leisure carrier XL Airways which went bankrupt before the aircraft were delivered and MX took them over. Had they been ordered new by MX I expect they would have been 8 abreast. I think MX offset the 9-abreast layout by increasing the seat pitch.

Quoting Bureaucromancer (Reply 10): The other thing to keep in mind about the A310s is that at some point DND might just decide they want them for additional MRTTs if the PM keeps up his demand for a dedicated VIP aircraft. I could pretty easily imagine a very good price being offered for much of the fleet...

Doubt it. It was an extremely political decision the Mulroney government made when they got DND to buy the A310s. Canadian was reeling from the Wardair acquisition and needed to get rid of them. The Tories did not want to lose support in the west.

Quoting AirNovaBAe146 (Reply 35): Doubt it. It was an extremely political decision the Mulroney government made when they got DND to buy the A310s. Canadian was reeling from the Wardair acquisition and needed to get rid of them. The Tories did not want to lose support in the west.

Yeah, but on the other hand more A310s will look a lot better than replacing the fleet if we find we need another tanker or three, the PM gets his transport and the new fighters are as expensive as it looks like.

As far as comfort, I have to agree with the general sentiment. Lovely aircraft, but you really don't want to be stuck on them - Transat does a fine job keeping them up, but they are horribly cramped in both pitch and width.

I once flew the late LAB/Lloyd Aereo Boliviano on an A310 in scheduled service that was configured as 9-abreast (3-3-3), and it was indeed very tight. Tight on legroom too. I was surprised as I was used to AA A300s and LH A313 in the standard 8-abreast (2-4-2) configuration. Fortunately it was a short flight, VVI/Santa Cruz to GRU/Sao Paulo. LB did use it on the MIA-VVI/LPB runs, which would have been quite an uncomfortable trip. It may have been an all Coach aircraft as well, though my memory is vague.

I've not flown Air Transat, but if they are configured at 9-abreast in charter configuration, I don't know that a price-break could talk me into a long trans-ocean flight.

Quoting AirNovaBAe146 (Reply 35): Quoting Bureaucromancer (Reply 10):The other thing to keep in mind about the A310s is that at some point DND might just decide they want them for additional MRTTs if the PM keeps up his demand for a dedicated VIP aircraft. I could pretty easily imagine a very good price being offered for much of the fleet... Doubt it. It was an extremely political decision the Mulroney government made when they got DND to buy the A310s. Canadian was reeling from the Wardair acquisition and needed to get rid of them. The Tories did not want to lose support in the west.

They were replacing very long in the tooth 707's that were maintenance nightmares. The A310's were a good price and have been in heavy use for troop transport, much cheaper than new aircraft . The VIP jet is reconfiguered quickly into regular troop transport and is in regular use so can't be called a dedicated aircraft. And besides the PM doesn't demand dedicated aircraft, the RCMP demand it. In today's world not only is the PM at risk flying commercial, but someone in that role flying on a commercial aircraft also makes that plane a target and the public at a heightened risk.

For the record I was less referring the modifications already made to one of the aircraft for the PM (which from my understanding don't really have much operational impact) as the civilian livery that the PMO has been demanding for it, and which the Air Force claims will make the aircraft unsuitable for troop transport. All in all my point isn't that the VIP plane is bad, as that it, combined with potential for more tanker demand might make more A310s a decent idea, and the kind of the DND sometimes pulls out of its hat at short notice.

Just finshed two Air Transat A330 flights from YYZ to MAN return. I've travelled the route many times with both Air Transat on 310's and 330's and their former partner Thomas Cook with 757's.

While the 330's had old interiors, both planes were comfortable and the food was quite adequate for a charter airline. With your meal Transat even offers economy class passengers a complimentary glass of wine. I'm average size, so I found the seat pitch and width to be just fine though I suppose a larger person (in height or width) would get cramped. That being said, I suppose large people are seldom comfortable on a trans Atlantic flight in an aircraft from any carrier.

I suspect that many of Air Transat's customers seek a bargin thus the airlines appears to understand their client base by providing a relatively good product at a price that the consumer can afford. If that means a fleet of A330's with new interiors, that's not a bad thing.

AFAIK, in 2007 Air Transat announced they were looking at the 787 and A350 XWB to replace their current fleet.

The article (I don't have a link, but I found it posted on another forum via google) also stated that they were looking to narrow the fleet down to one aircraft type. This decision was supposed to be made in 2009.

The same article said the cabin refresh was going to happen in 2008, so clearly we can see Air Transat is a bit behind on their schedule.

However considering their aircraft now are leased, they are probably going to wait until the 787/350XWB become available through a lessor.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 31): It wasnt the quality of the cabin, it was the width of the seats - one extra seat abreast squeezed in I believe as it was 3-3-3. That is tight! One showed up on the GLA - YVR flight the other day, I truly feel sorry for those pax - I barely endured YYZ - EDI. I actually did pass out later in the day through lack of sleep and horrible cramps.

Perhaps that's a slight exaggeration? I've flown TS many times across the pond and although the seats are narrow, they are certainly bearable. The seat width on a TS A310/A332 is only 0.5 inches less than Y on a LH 744.
I've even done D7 MEL-KUL-STN and return without any issues which has the same 3-3-3 config on the A333/A343. FYI, I'm 6'3" and about 220 lbs. Certainly much better than the SunWing/EuroAtlantic 2-4-2 763ER which was borderline torture...luckily I had window seats both way and could wedge myself into the cabin wall to sleep.

On TS the Club Class was always well worth the money...but I'm sure they will increase the price premium with their new cabin.

Looking forward to the new cabin nonetheless.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 30):

Thanks Viscount! Thats an absolutely fantastic looking airplane....wow  

Given TS's low yield market, they should stick to used aircraft. Obvious choices include more used 332/333 aircraft, maybe used 763/772 if they want incrementally more efficient or larger aircraft. The 345 would only make sense if TS could keep them busy on ULH routes which I dont see a demand for.

TS has been remarkably SUCCESSFUL as Canada's longest surviving charter carrier but its financials never seems stellar. -- no doubt its cautious expansion and prudent fleet planning have played a big part in their longevity. C3, Worldways, Crownair, Nationair, Odyssey, Wardair, Vacationair, Air Club International, Royal...all history.

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 38): The VIP jet is reconfiguered quickly into regular troop transport and is in regular use so can't be called a dedicated aircraft.

There was a spat last year between the Defense Dept and the PMO over this 313. The latter wanted it painted in a friendlier (while fuselage, red/blue cheatline) colour scheme but the DND wanted it kept in the current dark grey scheme. I don't know if this was ever resolved. This a/c was at YYZ today (and presumably en route to YQR with our future King and second wife right now).

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 44): There was a spat last year between the Defense Dept and the PMO over this 313. The latter wanted it painted in a friendlier (while fuselage, red/blue cheatline) colour scheme but the DND wanted it kept in the current dark grey scheme. I don't know if this was ever resolved. This a/c was at YYZ today (and presumably en route to YQR with our future King and second wife right now).

My understanding (and this could have changed again, I haven't heard anything since it was last in the news) is that the plan stands, but won't happen until the aircraft would be repainted anyway, which wont be for a few years yet.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/11...cc-150-harper-plane_n_1100162.html

According to this article the plane will be repainted in August 2013, and will still be used for tactical transport for the Canadian Forces as well as VIP. So no need for any new jet. If anything they should think about divesting of some Challengers, but that's a whole other topic.

My biggest discomfort with the size of the fleet is ultimately the tanker role actually. Four aircraft is alright as long as there isn't much need for airlift, but if we ever need to deploy troops at the same time fighters are anywhere overseas, but its not much of a stretch to imagine that need coming up.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 48): Quoting yyz717 (Reply 44): The 345 would only make sense if TS could keep them busy on ULH routes which I dont see a demand for. I don't know what ULH routes TS would even have for the 345 to fly on.

Agreed. Although, I don't know if a business case can be made for acquiring some (likely) heavily discounted 345's and using them on "regular" (ie. non-ULH) routes.

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 18): Air India

retired their A310s a while back...