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Topic: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: tommy767
Posted 2012-06-17 14:37:17 and read 10858 times.

Since they don't have true "focus cities" like Delta. Off the top of my head:

BOS
PDX
SEA
LAS
MCO
SAN
FLL
PIT
DFW

Does anyone have the number of flights per day out of these airports? Maybe there are a few more out there that I didn't include?

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: kgaiflyer
Posted 2012-06-17 15:59:01 and read 10601 times.

Tommy,

(1) In your own words, what's the difference between a "spoke city" and a "focus city?" Knowing your thinking on the matter will help to answer your question.

(2) Did you mean to have DFW on your list as a UA focus city?

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: OOSLC
Posted 2012-06-17 16:18:07 and read 10511 times.

Well for PDX there's

SFO: 9
ORD: 5
DEN: 5
IAD: 1
EWR: 2
IAH: 4
LAX: 3
SEA: 8
RDM: 3
EUG: 4
LMT: 1

Total: 45

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: HPRamper
Posted 2012-06-17 16:29:49 and read 10463 times.

SEA is bigger than PDX. Almost 40 mainline departures plus the obvious OO flights to PDX and other markets.

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: CALPSAFltSkeds
Posted 2012-06-17 16:58:16 and read 10347 times.

From your list today (maybe not the best because its Sunday) I get the following departures by city - including Express:
LAS is the largest and surely when mainline vs. express is calculated. Note: some of the business markets would be low on a weekend so take this with a grain of salt.

LAS= 58 - Mostly mainline
SEA=47
BOS=45
SAN=44
FLL=44
MCO=39
PDX=36
TPA=33
LGA=32
STL=31
DFW=31
PHL=31
BWI=26
PHX=24
MSP=24
PIT=23
SAT=21
STL=21
HNL=20
SNA=19
MSY=18
ATL=18
SLC=18

[Edited 2012-06-17 16:59:13]

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: USPIT10L
Posted 2012-06-17 17:10:51 and read 10292 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Thread starter):
PIT
Quoting tommy767 (Thread starter):
Does anyone have the number of flights per day out of these airports?
Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 4):
PIT=23

Try 30+. Are you including CLE, IAH and EWR? If you add AC, which is ground-handled by UA in PIT, it's about 35 right now.

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: N766UA
Posted 2012-06-17 17:36:38 and read 10151 times.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 5):
If you add AC, which is ground-handled by UA in PIT, it's about 35 right now.

I'm not sure why you'd include Air Canada flights when the discussion is about United. Ground handling is irrelevent.

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: ipodguy7
Posted 2012-06-17 18:20:14 and read 9978 times.

So, in order (of the 9 cities you listed), United's (along with United Express) largest spokes are:

1. BOS
F 0
J 736
E 6,251
Total 6,987 (49 departures)

2. SEA
F 12
J 601
E 5,958
Total 6,671 (50 departures)

3. LAS
F 0
J 636
E 5,835
Total 6,471 (48 departures)

4. SAN
F 0
J 500
E 4,583
Total 5,083 (45 departures)

5. MCO
F 0
J 520
E 4,472
Total 4,992 (34 departures)

6. PDX
F 0
J 386
E 4,060
Total 4,446 (45 departures)

7. DFW
F 0
J 256
E 3,141
Total 3,397 (40 departures)

8. FLL
F 0
J 256
E 2,676
Total 2,932 (36 departures)

9. PIT
F 0
J 140
E 2,242
Total 2,382 (29 departures)

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: CALPSAFltSkeds
Posted 2012-06-17 18:20:36 and read 9978 times.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 5):
Try 30+. Are you including CLE, IAH and EWR? If you add AC, which is ground-handled by UA in PIT, it's about 35 right now.

As I had stated, I picked today's departures, which obviously doesn't include lots of cancelled morning flights. In my experience, the best day to check for an average day is Thursday. In any case, I don't think you'll see much difference in total flights, except that LAS would be higher than normal using a Sunday while airports like LGA and other business markets may be on the low side.
This could be taken to further heights, seat counts, ASMs, wide vs.narrow bodies, mainline vs. Express, jet vs. prop, etc. In any case, I think LAS will be the station with the most seats and ASMs and probably the most flights.

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: CZ346
Posted 2012-06-17 21:42:58 and read 8269 times.

Outside of the USA, I know they list NRT and GUM as "Hubs" but I don't think they can really be classified as true Hubs.

Also, HKG has a couple of flights intra-asia via 738's and 764's...

HNL has a bunch of flights, but they all seem to be in and out of hubs.

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: Caspian27
Posted 2012-06-17 21:43:04 and read 8268 times.

How many departures per day for COS?

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: strfyr51
Posted 2012-06-17 22:13:44 and read 8059 times.

a focus city is somewhere that's a manstay city that you'll sly to even if it BYPASSES one of your Hubs and where you make it a point to fly TO From your Hubs. Bostom LGA, JFK , Hartford, CN, (Bdl), OMA, MSP, DFW, PHX, LAS, SNA,SAM, SEA, just to name a few. for United.

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: CODC10
Posted 2012-06-17 22:17:30 and read 8038 times.

Quoting Caspian27 (Reply 10):
How many departures per day for COS?

Peak-day this summer, it looks like 26. All UAX CR2/7 and ERJ.

11x DEN
5x IAH
4x LAX
4x ORD
1x IAD
1x SFO

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: CALPSAFltSkeds
Posted 2012-06-17 22:19:56 and read 8025 times.

Quoting Caspian27 (Reply 10):
How many departures per day for COS?

I see 20 tomorrow (Monday)

Quoting CZ346 (Reply 9):
HNL has a bunch of flights, but they all seem to be in and out of hubs.

HKG looks like 7 per day, but one of those is a 3 times per week 738 to GUM

By the way, its very close between LAS and BOS and BOS has the #1 ranking by total flights. On Thursday the end of June, BOS has 51 flights (7 are RJs) and LAS 47 (8 are RJs). However, for what its worth, a lot of the mainline LAS flights are flown with 739 and 753 aircraft.

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: Longhornmaniac
Posted 2012-06-18 00:07:50 and read 7573 times.

AUS has 30 flights tomorrow:

11x IAH (6 mainline)
3x EWR (3 mainline)
2x IAD (1 mainline)
4x ORD
4x DEN (1 mainline)
4x SFO
2x LAX

It's actually pretty sad that AUS only sees 11 mainline UA flights these days.

Cheers,
Cameron

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: tommy767
Posted 2012-06-18 06:19:43 and read 6376 times.

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 1):
1) In your own words, what's the difference between a "spoke city" and a "focus city?" Knowing your thinking on the matter will help to answer your question.

(2) Did you mean to have DFW on your list as a UA focus city?

Well since United doesn't have any true focus cities like Delta (RDU, BOS, DCA, LAX etc) I would consider most that have already been explorer as large spokes. It seems that the largest spokes for UA would be BOS, LAS, and SEA at least in the top 3.

However it seems the numbers have a little bit of variation to them. Does LAS really have 58 departures a day? That seems a little high. Ditto BOS at 51.

When I look up BOS for tomorrow I see:
SFO: x7 (now this unsually high. Usually only 5-6 in each direction)
IAD: x5 (this has been reduced some)
EWR: x11
LAX: x2
DEN: x4
ORD: x11
CLE: x5

TOTAL: 45

Where does the 51 come up? What cities get more flights on peak days?

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: STT757
Posted 2012-06-18 06:34:10 and read 6251 times.

Your missing Houston (IAH).

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: tommy767
Posted 2012-06-18 06:50:06 and read 6116 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 16):

Oh crap. You are right. I stand corrected.

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: RDH3E
Posted 2012-06-18 09:21:50 and read 5317 times.

Top 10 "spokes" by May 2012 Average Daily Scheduled Departures:

LAS 50.65
BOS 43.90
SEA 42.90
SAN 39.71
PDX 39.58
LGA 36.87
FLL 36.03
MCO 35.77
DFW 35.45
MCI 33.61

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: kgaiflyer
Posted 2012-06-18 12:37:46 and read 4266 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 15):
Ditto BOS at 51.

Okay -- I get it now.

I can't speak for the numbers in BOS. I do know that "attitude-wise" BOS/UA flyers consider themselves way, way more self-important than B6 flyers at the other end of the same concourse.

A couple of weeks ago when I arrived at too early for my 7pm flight, I went over on the B6 side of C Concourse to have a bite at 'Johnny Rockets' (also in Terminal 2 at ORD) and was surprised at the deer-in-the-headlights look of most of the flyers over there. Clearly few (if any) were business flyers. I'm guessing that in spite of the number of flights B6 sent out, a good number of the flyers may never have been on an airplane before.

By contrast -- over on the UA side, flyers paced back and forth on every blue 'Premier Elite' gate carpet. It is clear that few of these folks were *not* business flyers -- or dedicated, serious frequent-flyers.

Now . . . it's possible B6 and UA make about the same amount of money in Boston -- in spite of the number of flights dispatched -- because of the difference in types of fares -- and the number of premium seats -- each airline sells.

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: tommy767
Posted 2012-06-18 13:31:07 and read 3962 times.

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 19):

For some reason UA is strong in BOS. Now with CO in the mix, they actually dominate in certain markets. I'm not sure if they make the same amount of money as B6 though. B6 really has BOS flyers by the balls.

However, wasn't there a time back circa late 1990s where UA has most of the gates in C at BOS with TW?

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 18):

Kind of crazy that FLL has more departures than MCO -- yet not all the hubs are even served from FLL.

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: dfambro
Posted 2012-06-18 13:49:11 and read 3860 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 20):
For some reason UA is strong in BOS.

I can speak for why UA is popular with the biotechnology industry people in Boston, and that's a pretty significant industry here.
1 - good SFO schedule (biotech is big in the Bay Area, too)
2 - good Japan options, for connections with Japanese pharma companies
3 - Lufthansa partnership for EU travel. Two departure options (early evening and late evening) with one stop to most anywhere in Europe.

AA used to be very competitive, but has cut back travel from BOS more than UA. They do have the BA partnership too, which has the very nice morning departure to LHR plus multiple later departures.

JAL non-stop BOS-NRT is starting to strain some UA loyalty among those who have to travel to Japan frequently!

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: Jetsgo
Posted 2012-06-18 14:23:26 and read 3678 times.

Where does SMF fall on this list? There are several daily departures to SFO, LAX, DEN, to a lesser extent ORD, and at one time (maybe still?) IAD. Obviously it's no where near the top, just curious though.

[Edited 2012-06-18 14:29:22]

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: tommy767
Posted 2012-06-18 15:30:27 and read 3514 times.

Quoting dfambro (Reply 21):

Also does BOS have a lot within the financial sector? If so, that warrants the 7x daily BOS-SFO nonstops (West coast financial hub.)

Also the DC ties are quite strong even though Dulles is out in VA. UA has flown a 757 on BOS-IAD-BOS for years. Also BOS has nice connections to South America via the IAD hub with the 8pm flight.

EWR flights fits a nice niche into the BOS network. I'm sure there are some obvious business ties between NJ and Boston as well.

Quoting Jetsgo (Reply 22):

Definitely significant but not as high as what has already been said: LAS, BOS, SEA, PDX, SAN followed by LGA, FLL, MCO and DFW.

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: RDH3E
Posted 2012-06-18 15:47:35 and read 3480 times.

Quoting Jetsgo (Reply 22):
Where does SMF fall on this list? There are several daily departures to SFO, LAX, DEN, to a lesser extent ORD, and at one time (maybe still?) IAD. Obviously it's no where near the top, just curious though.

On my list, it's 35th out of non-spokes with 22.1 daily dep average during May.

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: ramprat74
Posted 2012-06-18 16:22:45 and read 3513 times.

I would imagine LAS going down to 39 flights a day in the future. The company doesn't want union ramp in more spoke cities. It will be interesting what cities will become union ramp stations after the combine contracts are worked out. We might see some rust belt stations such as PIT, BUF, DTW swapped for stations like DFW, AUS, SAT. Three UA ramp stattion for three CO ramp stations.


Here in PDX. We are busting at the seams. We now have five departures at 6:00am or earlier. The lobby has been a madhouse.

[Edited 2012-06-18 16:25:56]

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: USPIT10L
Posted 2012-06-18 19:14:58 and read 3352 times.

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 25):
I would imagine LAS going down to 39 flights a day in the future. The company doesn't want union ramp in more spoke cities. It will be interesting what cities will become union ramp stations after the combine contracts are worked out. We might see some rust belt stations such as PIT, BUF, DTW swapped for stations like DFW, AUS, SAT. Three UA ramp stattion for three CO ramp stations.


Here in PDX. We are busting at the seams. We now have five departures at 6:00am or earlier. The lobby has been a madhouse.

Interesting. Our lobby is busting at the seams in PIT. Express and mainline work side-by-side, except in the early morning, when it also is a madhouse--we have three 0600 departures, one to SFO, one to IAD and one to IAH.

What is the actual status of the ramp contracts? I know Express has multiple RFPs, but those are 6-12 flights a day-type stations like MAF, MKE, CRP or AMA.

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: RDH3E
Posted 2012-06-19 06:50:11 and read 3081 times.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 26):

What is the actual status of the ramp contracts?

It appears there was another round of joint negotiations last week.

http://www.unitednegotiations.com/employees/ramp-fleet-service/

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: BCEaglesCO757
Posted 2012-06-19 15:50:58 and read 2871 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 20):
For some reason UA is strong in BOS. Now with CO in the mix, they actually dominate in certain markets

Yeah we are. I gotta think the BOS-NYC and BOS-WASH DC market are two of them. I always thought BOS was a focus city for UA myself.

Before the merger the largest aircraft we may have put into BOS was the 738 at CO.. I noticed UA always had 57's or 763/777's there.

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: coffeepilot
Posted 2012-06-19 16:11:23 and read 2832 times.

MSY is one of the few cities with non-stops to all eight hubs.

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: dfambro
Posted 2012-06-19 18:40:10 and read 2713 times.

Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 28):
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 20):
For some reason UA is strong in BOS. Now with CO in the mix, they actually dominate in certain markets

Yeah we are. I gotta think the BOS-NYC and BOS-WASH DC market are two of them

Not really, with US and DL doing shuttles on those routes.

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: BCEaglesCO757
Posted 2012-06-19 23:33:52 and read 2524 times.

Quoting dfambro (Reply 30):
Not really, with US and DL doing shuttles on those routes

I was thinking in terms of hub flights for us.

DL and US probably have us whipped in frequency,but capacity we may but up there with them.

I honestly don't know. Just thinking off the top of my head.

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: STT757
Posted 2012-06-20 06:29:18 and read 2373 times.

Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 31):
DL and US probably have us whipped in frequency,but capacity we may but up there with them.

UA's BOS-EWR has substantially more capacity than DL's BOS-LGA.

DL's BOS-LGA shuttle is all regional jets, 16 daily ERJ-175s (76 seats) for a total of 1216 daily seats..

UA offers 11 daily all mainline (3 737-500, 4 738, 2 739, 1 752, 1 A320) for a total of 1654 daily seats.

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: jfk777
Posted 2012-06-20 06:43:17 and read 2356 times.

LHR is huge with the old UA flighst from LAX, SFO, IAD and ORD plus the Continental Newark and Houston flights. They have 18 flights daily including 5 from Newark alone 4 with 757's.

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: tommy767
Posted 2012-06-20 06:46:58 and read 2343 times.

Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 28):
Before the merger the largest aircraft we may have put into BOS was the 738 at CO.. I noticed UA always had 57's or 763/777's there.

UA has had an F/A base at BOS for a long time -- Ditto LAS and SEA (largest spokes!) There was a substantial amount of frequency to all the hubs before the merger was set. BOS was by no means a focus city for United. They dropped LHR sometime after 9/11 and that was about as interesting as it got. Lot's of 757s but no scheduled 777s and 763s since the early 2000s (they were occasional subs.)

Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 31):
I honestly don't know. Just thinking off the top of my head.

To be fair, I think if anything the BOS-DCA market caters to a slightly different subsect of people. BOS-IAD is for passengers who are going to NOVA whereas DCA is for downtown DC passengers. A diehard UA fan could do BOS-IAD and take public transit to DC from Dulles, but that would be such a hassle that I can't imagine it's too common.

Topic: RE: Largest Spoke Cities For United?
Username: LHCVG
Posted 2012-06-20 07:57:56 and read 2257 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 34):
To be fair, I think if anything the BOS-DCA market caters to a slightly different subsect of people. BOS-IAD is for passengers who are going to NOVA whereas DCA is for downtown DC passengers. A diehard UA fan could do BOS-IAD and take public transit to DC from Dulles, but that would be such a hassle that I can't imagine it's too common.

I agree that the market is split somewhat, but with the number of businesses on the Toll Road corridor, there probably are a decent number who have business out by IAD too. Obviously you did mention NOVA, but I wanted to clarify the point thatsome business traffic uses IAD as well, as opposed to the stereotype of DCA being all the DC-area business traffic and IAD being all NOVA leisure traffic.


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